When I played this for the first time I didn't understand English yet. So I basically played this like any other Metroid, figuring things out by myself.
Oh how I can relate. I've never played Metroid, but not understanding English as a child made it virtually impossible to understand stories of video games. I had to replay things as simple as Devil May Cry to understand what was going on. Metal Gear Solid was out of the question until much later on. I felt your struggle...
As a non native speaker i can say that "figuring out things by myself" played a big part on some of my biggest childhood videogame memories, perhaps is to this day why i like metroidvanias as much as i do, they give you few words of advice and send you off to figure out worlds by yourself and i find that to hit the nostalgia spot hard for the days i was just incapable of understanding anything at all.
@@k64speed I did. I hated having to constantly make sure I was holding my arm out in the exact right spot for the Wii to pick up lest. I like to sit and relax while I play.
@@k64speed I personally loved the controls and actually had the sensitivity all the way up because having to move the cursor all the way to the edge was annoying at first but that one change fixed it for me and I have yet to play a game with better motion controls besides maybe in VR.
Prime 3 was actually my first Metroid game so when I played it I was unaware of the series' Metroidvania nature. It didn't feel like not a proper Metroid game, it just felt like a fun sci-fi game with a good mix of action and puzzles. The parts where you have to use the morph ball to activate the giant tubby statues are so cool. One thing that was great was the use of environment. Since part of the story is reestablishing contact with the other bounty hunters who have gone ahead of you, as you progress through the world there are invisible trip wires which causes things to happen in the far distance that give you an eerie hint that you're being watching which to me adds to the classic Metroid idea of being isolated on an alien planet. What's going to come out around that corner?
Metroid Prime 3 was one of the first 3 video games I every played, along with Halo 3 and The Legend of Spyro. Rubdas reminded me a lot of the Arbiter, and it was a whole lot of fun. My dad had a GameFAQs walkthrough up for us. Good times honestly
Yeah, even at the time I didn't mind that they were clearly trying to make Metroid a bit more 'sexy' and mainstream, because I liked what they did with MP3 for the most part. Sure, it had some annoying bits, but none of the MP games were truly perfect. Overall, I enjoyed how they tried to expand the gameplay while still staying mostly true to its roots.
@@marscaleb Leviathans also struck Tallon IV and Aether. Just like Bryyo, Elysian, and the Pirate Homeworld had Guardians for their Leviathan Seeds (Mogmenar, Helios, and Omega Ridley), Tallon IV's Leviathan Seed Guardian was Metroid Prime and Aether's Guardian was Emperor Ing.
MAkes you question the entire Video if he overlooked something as simple as that....I mean even as a Child that didn't understand english back in the day this was pretty obvious.
I honestly love Prime 3 for the world building more than anything else. I love how the Aurora units are Mother Brains and how there are other bounty hunters.
A shame the 'main' series (the 2D games) completely ignore all of the Prime series lore and world-building, to the point that there are still debates as to whether the Prime games are even 'canon' or not. It's a known fact that Yoshio Sakamoto (the main guy behind 2D Metroid) wants nothing to do with the Prime games and has explicitly stated he has no intention of incorporating them into his true vision for the series (plus he's never played them). Though I guess to his credit, he never flat-out stated that they are non-canon, and he did allow Mercury Steam to put Meta-Ridley into Samus Returns (though it's unlikely Sakamoto even knows about Meta-Ridley).
I think I'm pretty alone there but I like all MP games for what they are in their different way. I don't compare them and figure out what's missing or what could be made better as seen in other parts of the series but rather take them as they are and immerse myself into the correspondent world. I like MP1 for being some kind of 3D Super Metroid. I like MP2 for travelling between similar but different world. And I like MP3 for the firmer storytelling as they already did in 2D with Metroid Fusion. That's why I still hope there will be an HD collection for the switch anytime soon.
I enjoyed this review, but I think you're being too critical of the "shooty-shooty, bang-bang" sections, as I felt like they were like they were boss fights with a twist. Especially with your example of fighting off space pirates on a "flying bomb". Not only was it exciting that you were on a Skytown platform, armed with a thermonuclear warhead, free falling to make contact with a Leviathan, but the added danger of needing to repair the escape pod by soldering the circuit board with the plasma cannon was absolutely thrilling--it's one of the most memorable moments in gaming for me. You talk about easy to get energy tanks, but ignore hyper mode. You say how good the Wii remote feels in game, but criticize it for adding more action. You mention how only perfectionists care about 100%, but disregard that this effects the ending you get since the first game. You have valid points, but it just feels like you went after low hanging fruit. What's obvious is that it's different for a Metroid game; however, it's also obvious that it was the only Metroid on the Wii. More story and lore to give context to more action, taking advantage of a new control scheme without sacrificing too much of the theme (in fact, adds more dimension) and classic gameplay makes it an excellent game and sequel, period.
It has its flaws, but I do love this game. I like how when you're first "set free" that you have the choice to go to two planets. It would have been great if both planets were accessible, and gave you a power-up; but require the power-up from the opposite planet to finish both planets.
"The meteor blast showered the galaxy" I don't think you understood that. Other meteors actually landed in those planets. You just stopped the one on Norion.
It's almost like people who have an undisguised contempt for storytelling in games don't pay attention when the game tries to tell them a story. *coughcough* _Arin Hanson_ *cough*
Elysium, to this day, is one of my favorite settings, not just in Metroid, but in gaming. I am just over the moon for the aesthetic, the heavenly music, the goofy tin man enemies, all of it.
Metroid Prime Hunters actually had planet hopping first. Though to be fair, this game did a LOT more with it, and let you actually see the inside of the ship instead of just a 10 second per-rendered scene. lol
Also as far back as Metroid Fusion the Ship was used as a set piece in the game during more than just start and finish. The space station loses power and the ship is your only place to save/ get your next objective. It's not super involved, but I enjoyed that moment when I first played fusion.
Talking about the chozo/sky temple keys and how they kill the pacing, I can't help but think "what if they were optional." And then of course you think about the king's soul in hollow knight. Seems like such an amazing idea alone, but if you look at games that influenced it, it pops right out as the most obvious thing in the world. How do you reward exploration? They multiple keys. How do you avoid killing the pacing? Don't make them necessary. But then what will reward the player for getting them? True ending. Duh. And this is why we love analyzing games. Some of the best ideas for future games are glaringly obvious if you just take the time to look at past games and see what works and what didn't.
Yep, Hollow Knight surely learned from the metroid prime trilogy's fetchquest at the end and twisted it a bit further so if players decide on their own to get everything, they will be rewarded big time with a totally new ending and with a new boss fight at the end. That totally works! It's great when franchises learn from one another and improve on the same genre to move it forwards.
Reward for exploration is keys, and if you get them, you get a true ending? Dude, you just described missile tanks, energy tanks, ship missile expansion, power bomb expansion, etc.
The king soul is divided in two only, and one of these items requires to beat a new boss, the other is in a full new area. The optionnal part is definitively not the only thing better here.
honestly prime 3 was my favorite, i found all the new contraptions and new ways to use old abilities very interesting as well as using the gunship other than a glorified save point. I also don't mind the hand holding unlike most metroid fans i liked the inclusion of character interactions and having the computer talk to you every once in a while.
It's definitely something that needs to be brought up more often. You end up finding out that apparently Space Pirates use metroids as both pets and target practice lol.
Just stop this shit.. every fricking video someone shout out Hollow knight.. My god its not even that great. -especially the half point of the game.. It does nothing but waste players time. In the later the game it will turn out like Dark soul where you can kill three bosses in any order you want. Its really not that great. Dark soul and Super metroid did it much better.
8:58 Big facts right here, it's a really fine line to walk I think between how much a game lets the player figure out on their own vs how much it talks you through things. You don't want feel completely dumped off with no instruction or clues whatsoever, but you also don't want to get so reliant on instruction that you can't do without it. Subtlety goes a long way, nudge don't hand hold
Perfectly put, especially in this generation where players might feel the urge to have answers right away on what to do or where to go, or the players might not stay as interested or engaged to find the solution, or else they'll look for answers online which defeats the purpose altogether.
I liked how it felt like stuff was goign on in the world around me. Things I didn't actually WATCH happen, like the universe kept existing even when I wasn't looking at it. after 2 games where I felt terrifyingly alone, it was a nice change that samus has friends now, and these intelligent computers that integrate perfectly into the story. .. then watch as they all get horribly corrupted and you see samus can't have nice things.
I’m surprised at how critical you ended up being of all three Prime games; it didn’t sound like you particularly enjoyed any of them. Which is perfectly fine! But I do think viewing a game through a specific lens can have its drawbacks. Like, viewing these games purely through the lens of “how good is this at executing the traditional Metroid formula?” can make you miss just how good these games are AS GAMES. The mixture of atmosphere, puzzle solving, combat all rolling into one at any given moment is what I think makes this series so iconic, not necessarily its execution of the classic Metroidvania design.
Right on the dot. Some of the best things about sequel games is how they cause the story to evolve. Can you imagine if the assassins creed series stayed with the same mechanics as #1 and we never got brotherhood or revelations because it “wasn’t the same formula”? Gosh I’m sad some people can’t appreciate growth because change = bad.
This is why I don't like these Boss Keys videos. I was already disappointed at the Zelda dungeon videos and was hoping the ones on Metroid would fare better, but I seem to have expected too much
Aside from the powerups you can find in Valhalla it seems you missed one thing. Noting too special, it is a message from AU 313 before being stolen by space pirates. No extra ability but worth mentioning
A little detail in this game's design is that samus' grapple beam hand has her indicator and middle finger metalized, and they are the fingers you use to press C and Z on the nunchuk. So when you grapple and pull using the motion on the nunchuk it feels so immersive.
Prime 3 is my favorite Metroid title, one of my favorite games of all time really, though I did start with it before playing Primes 1 or 2 so maybe I have a different perspective on it. Regardless, I think it's structure is strong and reminiscent more of Zero Mission than Fusion. The prople giving you orders being more like the Chozo statues than Adam. I also can't describe it as easy to navigate or "hand-holding". I felt I was finding the answer to most problems or finding the right path on my own rather than it being directed for me. Maybe that's just me, not sure if that is really reflected in the game to be honest. Of course, the other main strength is the shooting and world building. Each planet feels unique and the characters are interesting. In general, the presentation is fantastic.
What about the examples he gives, where doing an unrelated activity prompts a textbox telling you where to go next? That's pretty much the definition of handholding, at least in a Metroid game.
@@FungusTrooper You get told where to go, but how to get there is another story. Plus "go to Bryyo" is a bit more general than any one location. But let's use one specific example. The "GF troop" that randomly pops up on them pirate homeworld leads immediately to a boss. After that boss, you get an item that lets you explore most of the planet and find the nova beam. At worst that is a temporary handhold for the sake of a tense battle that gives you the ability to explore. If it's still a problem, think of it this way. Why doesn't U-Mos open all parts of the game for you immediately? Why can you only go to Agon at the start? I wouldn't bother worrying about this too much.
Semantic lore correction here… The Leviathan Seeds didn't get scattered from the meteor above Norion; the meteor *was* a Leviathan like the others. They were all sent out from Phaaze. I also find it funny you consistently mispronounce some things that're voice-acted in the game, like "Bryyo". But overall a very good video and analysis!
Definitely play Zero Mission, AM2R, Super Metroid, Prime 1,2, and 3, and Metroid Fusion. They're all very different from one another but all great games that have aged incredibly well.
The 2D ones are. I wish I hadn't played Prime first, as it put me off the 2D games for over a decade. Turns out, it's just Prime that gargles gonads, not the entire franchise.
@@coolguy02536 Why would one imply the other? There's are no scavenger hunts in any 2D Metroid. (A scavenger hunt meaning: go get all these items that confer no benefit other than allowing the game to advance.) It's something Retro loves to do, for some reason.
A great analysis, but I feel like it would have been worth mentioning why the game hands you so many energy tanks, and straight up forces you to collect two of them. The phazon abilities are a core mechanic of combat, and are sometimes required for exploration purposes, but the price for the power is 100 points of damage to yourself.
@@zerarch77 Fair point, you can totally shoot one hyper missile and leave. My personal experience means nothing, but I usually just balls to the wall time out the corruption for max value since you can't take damage like that.
This game is ALL about corruption. It's even in the title! Phazon is a power trip! And using it puts you in even greater risk of losing your mind, your sanity, your will to Dark Samus. Energy Tanks are your life meter... meaning Phazon starts to become more and more your life. And then the last sequence of the game, you realize what the price of power means, as it's all that energy that almost kills Samus...
@@KairuHakubi I had the same problem up until i started the games Hypermode difficulty. Enemies are far more aggresive about going Hypermode themselves and nigh impossible to kill in Hypermode, which turns your own Hypermode into a necesity and one you need to learn well. Sometimes it is best to pop in briefly and blast an enemy before exiting for minimal self damage, but other times it was better to skirt the edge of corruption and use the extra time and energy to tackle bigger threats. It is honestly one of the most thrilling hard modes I have played, because, at least for me, it changed how I apporached the entire experience. Sacrificing health to Hypermode was no longer a choice, it was a necesity and by extension correct management of Hypermode became an important skill.
I really disagree that this one is the weakest in the series. While it might have less traditional Metroid aspects, it felt like a necessary shift after how stale Metroid prime 2 felt. It took a lot of risks for the series but calling it weak because those risks aren't "Metroid" enough is how you drive a developer to kill a series.
Troy Prater but mark's point wasn't that were bad because they are not "metroid" enough, it's because it doesn't fit the genre. There is a difference between trying new things, which is usually pretty good, and adding stuff that shouldn't be there or is unnecessary. As he said, metroid is not about the shooting mechanics and it never has been, and while adding some extra shooting is fine and adds up to the experience, there is a fine line that defines when this is a cool add up and when it is just senseless mechanics that break away from what the game is, mechanics that maybe didn't have a purpose to be there other than "it's cool". And from what I got, he also said that the issue is that some of these new features weren't really implemented well enough, so that's why it may be a weaker game in the series
This was the first Metroid game I played and while in terms of plot, it's not a great place to jump in, it is a perfect starting point mechanically. Metroid Prime 1 was overwhelming for me enough even having played 3. If I had started with 1, I'd likely have never bothered with the series because being thrown into the deep end isn't something I particularly like. Yet because Prime 3 helped ease me into things, I've played and completed every single Metroid game besides the very original two and Federation force. Though I have completed the remakes of the first two. And for me Prime 2 is far and away the weakest in the Prime series...honestly possibly the weakest Metroid game period. Other M was silly but Prime 2 was filled with stupid ideas like unbalanced bosses that were a 30min trek from the nearest save point, extremely visually similar worlds, an ammo system, and large chunks of time hiding in light bubbles. Prime 1 just barely beats out Prime 3 for me. 2 is miles behind in the dirt.
He likes prime 2 more becouse he doesn't like backtracking done right, he doesn't like to think about exploration. He prefers to have a simple sector maze instead of a deeply designed hidden path with interconnected loops. I personally hate it, on top of the milion hp enemies that made no sense. Prime 1 beats prime 3 only by a small bit becouse of how well designed the exploration was, but prime 3 combat is just amazing. And they are all definetly better than shooting and bombing random walls to find items and paths in 2d games.
Agree. Prime 3 is my favorite in the franchise to date. I think the games needed some streamlining after Echoes. Other M went way too far in that regard, but Corruption struck a nice balance, I felt. I also think it had to be more bombastic as the final act of a trilogy.
Although this game never quite hit the heights of Prime 1, I will always have some very fond memories of exploring Elysia for the first time, the music and world design there was stunning at the time.
I agree as well, I would love to visit Elysia in a future Metroid (Prime) game. The many more pods on the horizon suggested to me that it is a much bigger civilization than we explored in Metroid Prime 3. Floating steam punk world...
"Metroid Prime 3 couldn't decide whether it wanted to be a game where Samus follows an authority's orders or one where she explores an alien world on her own authority." I have a different perspective, which is that Corruption wanted to be _both_ and actually managed to do a pretty good job of it. Most Metroid games have Samus' mission instructions and input from her superiors just bookend the story instead of actually being part of it. Prime 1 and Prime 2 both did very little to advance the story of Phazon's effect on the universe, which isn't surprising given that a non-linear structure provides few occasions for dramatic plot-related events to happen. The third game was left carrying the bag as far as advancing the story was concerned, but it turned that burden into an opportunity. It featured characters I could relate to and a plot I found interesting, something that no other Metroid game has done besides Fusion, and even then Prime 3 did a better job. Games are more than just a collection of mechanics; how you put those mechanics in a dramatic context matters a lot, and Corruption did an amazing job of contextualizing. I've heard KingK make arguments similar to yours to the effect that Corruption is an inferior Prime game because Samus is following directions and engaging in military maneuvers instead of wandering freely and blowing up things at her own pace. But if you think of Samus as someone who works for a galactic military force, what she does in this game is a _lot_ more like what her job would normally be than what she does in Metroid Prime. She must be able to effectively work on a team, or she wouldn't be trusted by the Federation. She must occasionally need assistance or advice from others, or she wouldn't be a human being. In general, I would sum up Corruption by saying that it's more _realistic_ than the rest of the Metroid series, and that's not necessarily a good thing for everybody, but I found it refreshing. Samus in this game has stakes to fight for, friends that she gains and loses, and a dramatic story that's driven by agents other than herself. If Metroid can't have those things without getting savaged by fans for being different, maybe it would be better if Nintendo stopped making it.
That doesn't fix most of the issues mentioned. Like the random proggresion that makes no sense. I.e you got screw attack and can now explore vahalla but not because it was blocked by something recquiring the screw attack but just because the game decides you can. Thats just bad game design
@@Conoert You mentioned exactly one issue, and I don't even know where you're coming from on that. I've heard that you can _skip_ a section using the screw attack on Valhalla, but progression there is based on energy cells, not whether or not you have the screw attack. Progression in Prime 3 is no more random or senseless than progression was in Prime 2. You're going to have to be more clear and give me some actual examples if you expect to convince me this game was badly designed.
@@Conoert Okay, I see what you're talking about. I had forgotten about that point in the game, because I remember going to the Valhalla pretty early, but maybe I didn't realize how early you get the screw attack. Let me go into this a little more. The discovery of the wrecked Valhalla by the Federation after Samus finds the screw attack is a plot development. It's not that the Valhalla was around and was arbitrarily locked off; from the game's perspective, no one _knew_ the Valhalla's significance until it was found. The same is true for the "trapped soldier" on the Pirate Homeworld. These were put in to add a little drama to the game and make it more exciting. This isn't "random" progression, it's just plot-based rather than mechanic-based. That's a necessary corollary of setting the game on multiple planets, since moving from one to another would have to be dictated by external events rather than player progression; it's not like you can walk from Bryyo to Elysia. I _appreciated_ the fact that this game chose to do something different, and the multiple planets is part of that. By the way, this isn't the first time in the series that progression has been gated off by non-mechanical, plot-based obstacles. Prime 2 was full of those hologram gates blocking off later levels that can only be opened once you've visited the shrines in earlier levels and listened to the Luminoth spiel. The game gating these areas off isn't any less arbitrary from the standpoint of design. It's meant to make the game feel more dramatic and have you visit levels in an order more or less anticipated by the designers. I've said before that Corruption was stuck in an awkward place as the final game in a trilogy because the other games had virtually no plot to speak of. That's a legitimate problem, Retro found a novel way to handle it, and I'm annoyed that you and many other people don't give them credit for that. If Corruption had been just another Metroid game, the story would have had nowhere to go. Mark needs to take a step back and ask himself if he really wants this series to always stay exactly the same, or if it's beneficial for it to have occasional departures like this. My opinion, now as before, is that it _needs_ that variety.
I enjoyed this game to very much. Pointing out a tiny point i think is an example of bad game design is not grounds to assume i dislike a game I did enjoy. There is nothing wrong with plot based proggresion. The problem is communication because the rest of metroid is mechanical progression players can get confused when they aren't progressing in the way they are used to. Corruptions real flaw was not adjusting the systems to compensate for their new direction. I think a good idea would be to use cutscenes for subtle hints. I.e "There seems to be a mystery but we are working on it. Keep exploring this thing and we will get back to you." Now the player is aware that they might progress on plot. Please don't strawman me into claiming I don't appreciate a studios hardworl just because they didn't create an immaculate conception of a video game.
I just want to point out that there's really no way Samus can be alone during 100% of her missions or all her life. I never thought there was anything fundamentally un-metroid about experiencing parts of her life where she isn't alone.
The Aurora unit chiming in is nowhere near as bad as you make it seem. Also defending a nuke while on said nuke was one of the standout moments of the game for me
@@Attaxalotl with Fi she straight up stopped link in his tracks to talk, with Aurora it's just a little text box that pops up on the bottom of your screen that you can ignore
Honestly I love all the metroidvania tropes people will make fun of... game: she had amnesia me: omg she had amnesia... game: and she lost all her powers me: omg she lost her powers...
With such a resurgence in good metroidvanias and moving away from everything trying to be like Halo, or copying a AAA in its given genre, hopefully 4 really focuses on what makes Metroid great
3:05 The destruction of the Norion Leviathan did not shower the galaxy with Leviathan seeds, leading to the corruption of the other two planets. The other planets were hit during the same attack with totally separate meteors. The Norion attack was the lead attack to draw all attention away from the other two target planets.
As a designer thinking about incorporating 3D Metroidvania mechanics into the next project I'm working on, I was watching the first 2 Prime videos a couple of days ago thinking about when the Prime 3 video would be dropped. After seeing this today I had a genuine 'fuck yeah!' fist pump moment. Keep up the great work!
Metroid prime 3 is my favorite metroid game. I just love it. I love the characters, I love the visuals, and I FREAKING LOVE the music. Seriously, the music is AMAZING. I loved the lore and the universe they drew too. Some of the battles were quite challening and I loved them too. I don't know, I loved almost everything about Metroid prime 3.
Great take. One comment I’d like to touch on “Just play Halo”. Halo was on a completely different system and for a different audience. I understand the point you’re making of keeping Metroid games to space exploration but I don’t think it works with this example. For people who were only able to have one console there wasn’t a halo to just play on the Wii. Having these big sections where the space army was relying on you, a lone bounty hunter, to help them also felt pretty good thematically. This is something that other m took in the wrong direction though making you more like a lapdog.
Yeah this game was one example where trying some new stuff with an established franchise worked perfectly (metroid prime 1 being another example), and halo-type circlestrafe-based dance-like shooters (rather than these shooting galleries where you can just stand still or have to hide in cover all the time) are rare enough, so I loved seeing that kind of stuff in this game.
In this context “Just play Halo” is merely a figure of speech, which means if you want a normal linear, traditional shooter, there are other games, but metroid prime is its own thing and fills a space that nothing else quite does. And yes there are definitely traditional fps games on Wii, quite a few actually: - The Conduit 1 & 2 - At least 6 Call of Duty games - At least 3 Medal of Honor games - Far Cry: Vengeance - 2 Red Steel games (although the 1st aint that great) - A GoldenEye remake (with a digital copy of the original also available) - At least 2 Brothers in Arms games - Sniper Elite And a few more. So yeah, more than enough traditional fps games on wii, no reason to "corrupt" (sorry just had to) Metroid Prime.
@@aidennoir597 Ok, yeah to be fair it was a huge improvement over the first, even if the controls werent always perfectly on point, I think the 1st just left such a bad taste in my mouth. I'll correct my comment ;)
Really interesting to watch these videos on the Metroid Prime games. A lot of the issues you brought up really didn't bother me at all while I was playing (I kind of enjoy running back and forth through the environment and meticulously checking previous rooms, for example), so I'd never really thought about them from the perspective you present, and focusing on the practicalities of the world design. Always do enjoy getting to see different thoughts on the things I love. I'll hope to maybe see more when we (eventually) get to look at Prime 4.
Although your perspective is ultimately positive I can't help but feel that you're ignoring the time in which the game was made. It was 2007, and the only games that were anything like Metroid ... were Metroid. This was also the 4th Prime game in a 5 year period, meaning that you kind of have to keep mixing things up to make each game not run together and provide enough of a reason to check out the new one. Combine that with the weak sales of MP2 and the growing popularity of Halo in 2007, and there's a very obvious reason why it took on a more cinematic and assisting approach. Metroid's sales have never matched its status in game history, and not only do I not blame them for trying to expand its audience (it managed to outsell MP2 at least) but I think they handled it well. I really appreciated having a more upfront way of experiencing that world, and the cutscenes did a fine job of that. Its also a great way of introducing Prime to FPS fans who weren't quite ready for something like Prime 1 or Super Metroid.
Your points are likely true, but I think your argument falls under a different topic of discussion. While Mark shows subjectivity in his criticisms (what critique isn't subjective?), this show isn't about analyzing and/or sympathizing with economic decisions. Delving into the socio-econimic business side of why Prime 3 is kinda like other popular shooters of the time in order to excuse these choices is invalid to the analysis being made.
@@will_of_europa Yeah, you tell those brain dead idiots! You keep on goin into threads and posting that. Look at you. Big boy, surfing the internet all by himself. Giving his big, adult opinions. You're doin a really good job.
@@will_of_europa Yeah, you tell those brain dead idiots! You keep on goin into threads and posting that. Look at you. Big boy, surfing the internet all by himself. Giving his big, adult opinions. You're doin a really good job.
On the other hand, Echoes came out on a dying console, while Corruption came out on the wii, which was selling extremely well . If you consider this, I'd say Echoes did better. On most prime trilogy comparison I've seen, Prime 2 also always gets a a little more votes than Prime 3, while prime 1 crushes both of them.
One touch about Prime 3 that I really like is how you can use the ship to travel to different landing zones on the various planets. They're effectively warp points, but it ties in with how useful the ship can be (something I hope gets further explored in Prime 4), and how it can minimize backtracking without affecting the overall design feels good. There are still plenty of times where it's worth making the trek to explore, and the design of the worlds themselves usually provide dynamic looping once you get key items, but it provides more flexibility without feeling essemtial
Good Video but i feel like you were just complaining about MP3's short comings and most of the issues you had just seemed like nitpicks, just enough to make a 14min video (which i dont get how since there werent much). Most of the things you said were mostly personal opinonated issues because i had no issue with this game at all and ive spent the last weeks replaying it from normal to veteran modes. Retro Studios tried something different to appeal to that "revolutionary nature" the Metroid franchise has been known for, they tried something new that majority of people loved, i think these 'cutscenes' or 'dialogue' that you had so many issues with (some warranted, some not at all) were neccesary for this series to keep up with the changing landscape of gaming from the 2010s onward. This video did not feel like an 'explanation' of MP3's world design but more of 'guy nitpicks about small issues in a metroid game because youtube views'. I came here to learn about Metroid Prime 3's 'World Design', not some guy complaining.
You mention that you get a lot of Energy Tanks, but you don't mention _why_ the designers would do this; Hypermode using up your energy tanks, and being required to use for the Seed Bosses, means that E-Tanks are a lot more important, and arguably necessary for a first-time player to beat the game. It's also worth noting that not only do you only need 5 Energy Cells, but 2 of them are required to obtain, and 4 of them are so close to the main path that they're basically free (One of them literally at the front door of the Valhalla). This is actually a stark contrast from Prime 1 and Echoes, where a good portion of the Artefacts and Keys are so far out of the way that you need to do a lot of tedious backtracking even if you're not going for 100%. It even made me appreciate the puzzle with the Ship Grapple even more, because for as long as it is, it is totally optional. Also, "Prime 3 marks the first time Samus’s ship actually gets used outside of the opening and closing cutscenes". Yeah, people like forgetting Hunters. Shame, cause I think it gives a good impression of what Nintendo's idea of a Prime game would have been. I even think it's one of the most non-linear Metroid games. There might be something interesting in there for a future episode
No, energy tanks are not more important. The game is very easy besides the final boss in hard mode, which is instead way too difficult and also happens to be the boss where hypermode is not really a thing because it's just the default mode. As for the energy cells, they only work well for replays, because you know which door to open in Valhalla. And if you're like me and want to always do 100%, it doesn't matter at all.
I have great memories of playing Corruption. It was my first Metroid game and I loved the atmosphere, the alien settings, the music and the gameplay. It was so smooth and the wii controls were incredibly intuitive. It was tough as nails too and it was immensely satisfying to beat the game on hypermode difficulty. You talked about solitude and I thought this game absolutely nailed that feeling of complete loneliness, especially in Elysia. I remember flying back to the tutorial world sometimes just because I wanted to be around other people.
Hrm? No episode for Fusion? I mean, I guess I understand, seeing as how it's another kind of linear "boss character telling you where to go" entry, but I was kind of looking forward to your insights on how that kind of framework functions in a Metroidvania, especially in regards to how it gives a focus to a developer-told narrative, instead of player-driven exploration. You touched a little bit on the subject here, but didn't go into much detail. EDIT: While I'm still thinking about it, maybe a short combo episode with Fusion and Other M would be worth your time, as they play out somewhat similarly (albeit one more successfully than the other). I know Other M catches a lot of flak (rightly so), but it had some ideas in it that could have held merit, and it's always worth taking a look at something's failures so as to learn from them.
The unfortunate confusion is that the series is titled "The World Design of..." but the content is more akin to "The Ludonarrative Design of...". Fusion's areas are quite interconnected and labyrinthine, but all anybody seems to see is the big marker on the map saying "go here"... which isn't even always there! It's unfair to the title.
I love Metroid Fusion, and it has many things going for it, but this series is about world design, and that is not Fusion's interesting points at all. Fusion is a lot more about story and atmosphere. The exploration aspect does come into play where the linearity breaks down (at least a little) as you regain your agency alongside your powers. It's certainly 100 times better executed than Other M.
Szabu ironically, I believe that fusion’s atmosphere heavily benefits from its world. Each and every location reveals more and more unsettling truths hidden on the station, even if you aren’t actively thinking of them. The primary obvious one is Sector 1’s SR388 simulation, but the locations throughout all contribute to the atmosphere by working with the story to raise tension. Sector 6’s darkness wouldn’t have half the fear factor if the Sector 5 X didn’t invade, and Sector 5’s cold climate, something not seen on SR388, leading to the adaptive X changing with the cold is something fascinating and terrifying. That this still unknown threat could spontaneously adapt to vastly different environments, especially one that is still extremely hostile to you even after you acquire the varia suit, is something that just story alone couldn’t supply. Hell, the security bot is one of the best shows of world building working towards the atmosphere. Up to this point, we’ve only seen X infect solely living creatures. Suddenly, a security goes rogue due to X infection? And it’s revealed to actually be a biomechanical being? Very interesting, and implicative of an attempt by either BSL or the Galactic Federation to replicate, atleast in part, mother brain. TLDR; Fusion actually has really solid world building, especially considering how small it’s physical scale is compared to other metroid games
I think you caught how I feel about this game greatly. "Just below the standards of Prime 1 and 2, but it introduces cool new ideas". Like Prime 3 is freaking epic, and it has a big story like Fusion and Other M but it isn't that intrusive and bad; and you have classic Metroid moments everywhere. It's hard to say why I enjoy Prime 1 and 2 more, but dang Prime 3 is a 10/10 tbh.
I love Prime 3 because, conceptually, it shows another side of the Metroid universe. A Metroid universe full of war and conflict. I personally think the softer, introspective and reflective exploration, atmosphere filled experience of Metroid can co-exist alongside the more energetic, high-octane, military and combat focused aspect. Because Samus is a bounty hunter, and a legendary one at that. Who's to say what her next mission will bring?
Your analysis is sound as always, and I'm always so impressed by it - but honestly, I think one of the most underrated parts of your videos, at least by me, is how well your animations and interfaces are. They look so extremely casual and intuitive that they feel like you just bought some pre-built software which does exactly this for all kinds of, well, video game upgrade orders and level design layouts for example, and that's quite a feat!
Yes, finally! I loved the previous two videos so much and have been looking forward to your video about Metroid Prime 3 ever since! Your videos are fantastic!
6:27 This is something I've always wrestled with when thinking about game design: Is it *really* the best idea for designers to just *hope* players will make it through their open world without any hiccups? Or is it just a passivity spurred on by an extreme hesitation to interfere with the player's unique experience? I think ultimately, because of the nature of games at their very core requiring players to do specific things in order to in, in order for the game to end, there will never be a complete escape from linearity. What's more, the hope that logic will win the day, that players will put the pieces together themselves, is a foolish hope at times, as I know more than a few players like myself who have gotten stuck in games like Super Metroid and basically had the fanbase turn their backs on them, as if all of us did something objectively wrong. So in the case of Prime 3, I will take my extra dialogue, I will take my instructions on where to go and what to do, because ultimately, even the phrase "hand-holding" is disingenuous. The player still has to go there. The player still has to do the things there, overcome challenges, you name it. If those challenges weren't fulfilling, it's not because of the context in which the player was *led* to them, it's because the game is simply too easy.
Prime 3 is still one of my top three favorite Metroid games and I'm glad to see people talking about it. I feel like it handles tension, combat, and expanding on Samus world the best. There was so much going on when it comes to lore and who Samus works with that it never felt dull for me. Also the ship Valhalla and Elysia's metroid section could be really scary for first time players.
Metroid Prime 3 wasn't the first Metroid to let you travel between planets mid-game. The first game to do it was Metroid Prime Hunters, which came out in 2006.
If they changed it so that MP3 started with the ghost ship segment, the Valhallah (adjusted for balance) it would have felt sooooo much more like a traditional Metroid game. Plus... can you imagine the atmosphere that might promote? Instead of defending Norion, you arrive to find the battle come and gone. And the creepy spectre of the remains hangs over everything. Just that one change would re-contextualize the genocide on Bryyo, and the vague sense of 'ghost town' on Elysis would be emphasized. The pirate homeworld has a vague resemblance to the Valhalla (the same dark and low-light feel in many segments). And instead of the pirates being beaten at their strongest and thus much less of a realistic threat (the Norion defeat made them feel a lot less threatening) and you simply walk into their house and kick them when they are down, it's you against the pirates and they are a murderous threat that terrified you with the first level. A threat that rewards you with serious badass points when you beat them. Lost opportunities...
I'm glad I found this. Not a lot of people talk about this game, and I always thought it had something good about it, but I never got to pinpointing it myself. That said, I appreciate its overall critique, and how you talk about the weird things that make it an outlier. Edit: I hope to all hell That Prime 4 is the best one yet. This series needs some love.
I feel like MP3's generosity with the energy tanks was to make the difficulty curve more natural. Metroid, Zelda, and any other adventure-esque game where you can significantly expand your health bar with collectables always have this scaling issue where it can be incredibly easy to die to common causes early on when you have only 100 health or 3 hearts, only to have everything become significantly more trivial by the time you collect multiple health containers that double, triple, and ultimately (in the case of Metroid) even x 15 your starting health. No matter how weak the enemies are in that first Zelda dungeon, you're far more likely to game over there than any of the subsequent ones. That said, there is a certain amount of joy in Metroid games when enemy encounters that were previously daunting become effortless (turning beacons into lures that melt ing, one shotting minibosses with nova & x-ray, etc.), so I guess going from 100 health to 1500 health plays into that fantasy of becoming a badass through exploration. However, it still means that the devs need to design fair obstacles that account for players that could have their max health at a large pool of values. Anyways, nice overview! I enjoyed a lot of MP3, and the Prime games as a whole, but definitely valid points all around. I really hope Retro manages distill the best of each of the MP games for MP4, because there's enough material in the trilogy to make a stand-out sequel.
He wasn't _technically_ wrong. You see, Federation Force and Hunters both fall into a third category that I like to call "Not Actually Metroid Games", along with Metroid Prime Pinball and the Morph Ball rolling microgame from Wario Ware: Smooth Moves.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 Hunters, Pinball, AM2R, and even Other M can all be considered Metroid games. FF objectively cannot. It's merely obligated to be on the wiki.
Exploring more of the Valhalla ship itself is a reward; it's one of the best areas in the series ambience-wise. I love it. I'm personally not bothered by the more action-oriented nature of Prime 3. It's an acceptable change of pace from other Metroid games that still leaves more than enough room for the series core game design to thrive. I'd maybe even rank it above Prime 2, though I tend to consider all three games as equally good, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.
Great video on Metroid Prime 3. It wasn't the first Metroid to make use of the gunship to travel between locations, that was Metroid Prime Hunters over a year earlier. Metroid Prime Hunters would have made for an interesting video with regard to its upgrade breakdown in the order that each of the 6 major upgrades can be acquired.
@@elvisdiaz2349 No, the zelda ones. We should've gotten a wrap up about general zelda Dungeon design. Season 2 Is Metroidvanias (Metroid + Castlevania + Modern Metroidvanias)
@@gustavowadaslopes2479 It would be awesome if they did not just focus on just structure design... What are inside of these dungeons are also important part of the design....I felt like dark soul had great progress structure design but some areas where itself badly designed.
@@gustavowadaslopes2479 You get a very, very reduced version of this at the end of the BOTW video, 17:05: "So, I guess that's it boys and girls. 16 games and 130 dungeons later and Boss Keys is finally finished. If you were wondering, that was 30 temples, 19 palaces, 9 levels, 8 towers, and 7 castles. Plus a bunch of turtles,, crypts, mines, bellies, sanctuaries, divine beasts, trees, woods, and plenty of other things. We've seen dungeons that are a straight-forward gauntlet of combat and puzzles, those that are a complex maze of keys and locks, and a special handful of massive moving puzzle box dungeons. There have been terrific bosses, clever puzzles, memorable moments, and Fi. Ahem. As for Boss Keys itself, well, this has been a weird, interesting and largely enjoyable project. It's far from perfect and I would start it all from scratch if I could, but ultimately I think I learned a lot about the construction of non-linear, interconnected level design." He does note in that same wrap-up though that he will work on a "conclusions" video. Someday? Maybe season 5 will be wrap-ups of the previous 4 seasons.
(It's GandrayDa and BREE-yo.) The gratuitous energy tanks are to take advantage of the game's Hypermode feature, which drains your health pretty quickly unless you know how to use it properly, which is likely why the first one you get is unavoidable. It's the missile expansions and ship missile expansions that are vastly abundant (like the expansions in Fusion, since they had to add more due to the powerups not counting towards completion percentage). Since there's no Super Missile upgrade, you'd have to spam Seeker Missiles to even have a chance at running out. And you hardly ever use ship missiles, which can be refilled pretty quickly. Like Fusion, they merely had to shoehorn those in, so they're there for completionists. As for the Valhalla, it also had a secret message in the deepest section.
I got Prime Trilogy on the Wii but played Prime 3 first because if felt more modern and the more direct story in the beginning grabbed my attention more. I definitely remember liking 3 quite a bit, but after looking back on all the games now, I do think the first two were the best overall. I really hope Prime 4 is good.
I'd love to see a brief boss keys episode on the first Dragon Quest game. I loved the NPCs who give you hints on how to interact with locations across the world map. It's like knowledge is your powerup. Of course, it also has a few key items, as well as "locks" where the "key" is just being at a high enough level. It's a really interesting game.
Excellent video, Mark. But I must add that this one felt more like a regular review than what I usually expect from Boss Keys. I don't know if that was your intention though. But I understand, since the game is so linear, there's not much to talk about regarding the exploration besides what you already stated here.
It would be interesting to see a Boss Keys on Gato Roboto. I'd also like to know if there are things that smaller Metroidvanias can afford to do that bigger ones can't do or would not do as well or as easily.
I still don't understand your issue with the key hunts in Prime 1 and 2. The games are about exploration, and I think doing a victory lap of the world just before the end of the game is the most logical conclusion to a world-exploration game.
Couple of corrections, the leviathan seeds all were sent out at the same time as the leviathan seed that was sent to norion. Also, metroid prime hunters had a similar planet mechanic with the gunship. I agree with your analysis! I do still love these games though (prime 3 included)
Tbh I think Echoes is the only Metroid game close to the quality of Hollow Knight, and that's because it's more of an extremely good Zelda game than a metroidvania.
Boy this made me feel nostalgic. Corruption was the game that got me into Metroid, and it's one of my most re-played games on the Wii, alongside Super Mario Galaxy 2. I should go back to the Trilogy when Prime 4 comes out
Weird, yeah, especially for how that game pre-figured the metroid prime 3 structure, of having all these tightly paced and separate mini-mazes, strung together with constrained and clear objectives.
@@titanfall222jorge6 Definitely no less linear than the Wind Waker Zelda. And there's at least some exploration to do within each section of the game. I agree it'd require a shift from Mark Brown's model of "normal" for this series (Link's Awakening style, Super Metroid style large scale lock-and-key mazes). But he's already innovated models to deal with the linear zelda's, with hermetic puzzlebox style dungeons, with metroid's huge one-dungeon game... So it'd be that same kind of challenge, something to develop his analytic system with. For that matter, I'd say there's lots to analyse in Metroid Prime Hunters as well. Then again, mister Brown slightly botched or phoned in his look at the Breath of the Wild Zelda and his analysis of Prime 3, so it's all fine I guess anyway. Leaves work for up-and-coming games studies folks.
Yeah, I was hoping he would cover Metroid Fusion as well :/ Maybe it's a bit too linear? It doesn't have much in terms of sequence breaking or open-endedness.
Always bums me out when people say Prime 3 is the weakest. Because I absolutely consider Prime 3 to be my favorite Metroid game. I hope 4 is more like Prime 3 than Prime 2.
In many ways, Corruption is my favorite in the franchise. The Galactic Federation realizes how big of a threat Phazon is, so they actually step up to work with bounty hunters to resolve this crisis. As much as they are cannon fodder, those troops don't quit. Admiral Dane is a Chad; the way he interacts with Samus is many times better than what Other M gave us with Adam. The Federation never exactly orders Samus what to do; they feed her information to help her accomplish their joint operation. It introduces several different intelligent alien species with simple backgrounds, expanding the potential of how many different cultures exist in the Milky Way Galaxy. I loved the motion and pointer controls much more than the GameCube control scheme. And the graphics... Man alive I haven't seen anything this pretty anywhere else. The one adjustment I would make is to have human faces be more lifelike and less anime style. My hopes are very high for Metroid Prime 4.
I reeeeeeally don't like having Fusion and Other M compared. Yes, both were dialogue heavy and give you orders, but Fusion was a reimagining of the original formula and follows the series tenets in many ways, playing around with it's setting, and generally being one of the best ludonarratives ever realized, while other M is a spin-off that does not follow the formula at all. On top of, y'know, not being good.
Well said. Fusion is very good in its own regards; it tried to evolve over Metroid 2 aka handheld games which must work within their limitations. The 'handholding' in metroid fusion feels right.
Indeed, but the game just doesn't let you discover what to do next. Is like the Skyward Sword of the Metroid series I'm afraid. Still, I enjoyed that game. I just want Nintendo to stop making more and more accessible their Metroid games, they are meant to be a challenge, not a walking simulator.
@@ossdemura You are only told of your vague objective, and need to figure out what to do and how to get there and back on your own within constantly changing circunstances. plenty of figuring thigns out on your own. Also, I don't think it's an issue of accessibility but of the newer devs not knowing what to do with the series. the teams that made metriod 1-4 and Prime 1 are no longer around.
Hey mate, 1 - Metroid Prime 3 gives you lot of energy tank because it's also used as ammo! 2 - You forgot to mention that the energy cells once you take them out it also alters the environment which is super important to their design. If you go through a path but have to leave without the power, it'll always require you to act different in a familiar environment such as going through vents or forcing doors openned, making the backtracking exciting. AM2R has scenarios like this (the Tower and the Distribution center), Super Metroid and Hyper Metroid too (the wrecked ship). I can't recall in the prime games but i have a souvenir this concept also appears in them. 3 - Metroid Prime Hunters, you should totally make a video about because it's a fantastic game largely ignored while it's a masterpiece. If you liked the control scheme on the wii (which is fantastic), the DS controls for Hunters is genius. The stylus, while a little awkward to hold, provides "analogous" controls which makes aiming as natural as using a wiimote or a mouse compared to using a joystick. Anyways, great videos as always. I feel like you genuinely do understand metroid and its concepts as a whole, and you explain it very well, something that i've always struggled to because while i understand the whole too i find it really hard to break it down.
Dunno if I expressed my self very well here, but I want to share some of my thought. It's interesting how different our experience with the game is. Personally, it's my favorite Metroid game. For me, knowing what I'm doing is not has much of an issue if they don't tell me *how*. Which the game usually does not. But even then, I thought for a while why do I like this one so much more? I think the thing it has over the other ones is the lore and exploration. There is more to scan in this than any other games. Exploring the shattered land of Bryo and learning what happened really brings the feeling of exploration to a new level. (Heck using material that always had the same property adds to this has well.) The environments were a lot more interesting and made me curious. They should probably tune back how much the AI knows, but I like how storied the game is. Also change of pace is not a bad thing. I enjoyed the raid on the space pirates quite a lot. I'm confident there is a balance somewhere between prime 1 style and prime 3. (With a bit of Super Metroid style sequence break?) Maybe to break this down, Prime 1 with more adventure, learning and "wow that's crazy"
*WARNING, WALL OF TEXT INCOMING* *Tl;Dr* : Narrative driven, linear, and "actiony" setpieces shouldn't be gatekeeped from Metroid and, if executed well (like in this game), can help flesh out its world in a way the"Metroid Formula" usually can't. First of all, I understand that this video represents GDTK's own opinions, and respect his statements and accessments of the game. However, I felt like some criticism is warranted. I feel this critique went a little bit too hard on the more linear, narrative driven, action pumping, moments and setpieces. While yes, Metroid is know for it's isolation and exploration aspects, it shouldn't mean that other aspects more common in other franchises should be gatekeeped from the series if they somehow affect the "Metroid Formula" This game managed to pulloff a pretty interesting narrative with great worldbuilding and ACTUAL CHARACTERS (for the most part). Given that Prime 3 is the conclusion to the Phazon Saga, it feels appropriate that the production team aimed for a more narrative driven experience and, imo, managed to keep a nice balance with the exploration aspect. Therefore, I feel that the way this review mostly paints narrative setpieces as negatives don't really give said setpieces enough credit to how much they made the world of Metroid feel alive and diminish their contributions to the rest of the series with this "don't do it" take on things. Lastly, the "Want this? Go play Halo!" statement is pretty poor and alienates Metroid as a series from taking inspiration in any other franchise. This contradicts the very nature of game design that is based so much in taking inspiration from previous products and giving a desired aspect a new spin in the context of a new product. That's like saying "want openworld? Go play Skyrim!" in the case of BotW or "want 3d platform gameplay? Go play Banjo!" in the case of Mario 64. It just comes off as a little elitist. EDIT: formatting.
It is so weird seeing someone complaining about linearity, action and story in Metroid games. Metroid 2, samus returns, fusion, echoes, corruption, and parts of zero mission are very linear, but non linear inside it's chapters. Even super blocks you from backtracking left and right to force you forward in the first half. That's how Metroid works, it is not a "metroidvania", it is Metroid, the "vania" games like SotN and now Hollow Knight that have a more "open world" approach like in metroid 1, that Metroid seems to intentionaly see as something to not do again because it creates too many situations of people just wandering about without a clear goal or objective, getting boed and frustrated and loosing interest in the game. Action has always been a big part of metroid too. Way more that Zelda I might add. Of course that is very limited in the 8-bit games, but Super and even more Fusion, you need to learn enemy patters, dodge, time attacks all that stuff. And when Sakamoto went to make a modern Metroid he chose to make it a action game with Team Ninja, as he said, his vision of Metroid was always action focused with aspects of horror/suspense. (not defending MOM here, just bringing the vision of one of it's creators) As for story/lore, not only has metroid shown aspects of it in many different occasions, it is as, if not more memorable than Metroid's gameplay. M1's samus is a girl reveal, M2 hachling, M3 Ridley and ending, M4 SA-X horror. And the prime trilogy gave us Dark Samus, and finally made the "mightiest bounty hunter of the galaxy" into palpable gameplay, showing us why she is so great, more than just F-Gordon Freeman What I want of Prime 4? Give me DOOM gameplay, with a map akin to Echoes (clear objectives, but little hand holding) and more of Samus's character The Halo part was very silly. There is a very clear cut of before Halo and after Halo in the FPS genre, it is such an important and influential game, how could Retro not take inspiration of it? And even then, I don't think it takes anything away from MPrime.
Considering also the environment in which this game came out, alongside Bioshock, Halo 3, Portal 1, Assassin's Creed 1, Uncharted 1, Crysis, Modern Warfare 1 (CoD4)...
I feel that the developing the combat in 3 was a good choice. Scripted elements if over analysed do seem a bit cheap but they had enough narrative weight behind them to make them feel purposeful. It's also the only Metroid game that made me care about the enemies I was fighting.
I'm trying to think of what the title of the other M episode will be "The BABY design of THE BABY" "The world design of SAMUS! ACTIVATE THE VARIA FUNCTION OF YOUR SUIT"
Naw, I'd say he loves to bits parts from all of them, metroid clicking into place the best, but realizes that a number of issues keep the series from reaching truly great heights. Remember that he's analyzing the level design in this series, not reviewing the games in their entirety. There's more that goes in to them than just the level designs.
@@NevetsTSmith i personally think level design in prime 1 and 3 and also hunters in a way beats most 2d games by a lot, even super, it's just a personal preference of his
@@Oneiroclast Yes but he didn't said a lot of positive things about the trilogy. Usually he only said good things as segways to talk about flaws in that positive thing. This is fine BTW, i'm not angry that he criticized the games. I barely have a connection to the Prime series.
"The power of the Wii." Boy, that’s not a phrase you hear very often.
Indeed, still though, it does highlight that the gap between the GCN and Wii was enough for games on the Wii to have benefits over being on the GCN.
@@CornishCreamtea07 Well, duh. A 50% boost is huge before you reach the point of diminishing returns.
@Tilde White The wii uses the same gpu and cpu as the gamecube, but with a 50% increase in clock speed.
@Tilde White In that regard, having a developer's eye helps. Also, comparing games in the same franchise.
Haha, my thoughts exactly when I heard that
When I played this for the first time I didn't understand English yet. So I basically played this like any other Metroid, figuring things out by myself.
What was your first language, if you don't mind my asking?
Oh how I can relate. I've never played Metroid, but not understanding English as a child made it virtually impossible to understand stories of video games. I had to replay things as simple as Devil May Cry to understand what was going on. Metal Gear Solid was out of the question until much later on. I felt your struggle...
As a non native speaker i can say that "figuring out things by myself" played a big part on some of my biggest childhood videogame memories, perhaps is to this day why i like metroidvanias as much as i do, they give you few words of advice and send you off to figure out worlds by yourself and i find that to hit the nostalgia spot hard for the days i was just incapable of understanding anything at all.
@@kaymarx9677 Dutch. So there was no translation. Nowadays Nintendo games do have it though.
As a non native english speaker I think the greatest strugle of my childhood was getting past Rock Tunnel in the absolute darkness in Pokémon Blue.
Prime 3 is the most perfect utilization of motion controls I can recall ever existing. The door handle stuff felt solidly immersive.
Someone should remake prime 3 for oculus
Am I seriously the only one who thought Prime 3's controls were clunky and annoying, wishing that they could just use a normal controller instead?
@@k64speedYeah, pretty much.
@@k64speed I did. I hated having to constantly make sure I was holding my arm out in the exact right spot for the Wii to pick up lest. I like to sit and relax while I play.
@@k64speed I personally loved the controls and actually had the sensitivity all the way up because having to move the cursor all the way to the edge was annoying at first but that one change fixed it for me and I have yet to play a game with better motion controls besides maybe in VR.
Prime 3 was actually my first Metroid game so when I played it I was unaware of the series' Metroidvania nature. It didn't feel like not a proper Metroid game, it just felt like a fun sci-fi game with a good mix of action and puzzles. The parts where you have to use the morph ball to activate the giant tubby statues are so cool.
One thing that was great was the use of environment. Since part of the story is reestablishing contact with the other bounty hunters who have gone ahead of you, as you progress through the world there are invisible trip wires which causes things to happen in the far distance that give you an eerie hint that you're being watching which to me adds to the classic Metroid idea of being isolated on an alien planet. What's going to come out around that corner?
Metroid Prime 3 was one of the first 3 video games I every played, along with Halo 3 and The Legend of Spyro. Rubdas reminded me a lot of the Arbiter, and it was a whole lot of fun. My dad had a GameFAQs walkthrough up for us. Good times honestly
Yeah, even at the time I didn't mind that they were clearly trying to make Metroid a bit more 'sexy' and mainstream, because I liked what they did with MP3 for the most part. Sure, it had some annoying bits, but none of the MP games were truly perfect. Overall, I enjoyed how they tried to expand the gameplay while still staying mostly true to its roots.
>Marathoning Boss Keys today
>Notifications on new Boss Keys videos
What a time to be alive.
The meteor did not spread leviathan seeds when it blew up. The meteor was a leviathan. Several more had already been dispatched to the other planets.
Is that what it was? Honestly I wasn't following it very well when I was playing it either. It just didn't stick me very well.
@@marscaleb Leviathans also struck Tallon IV and Aether. Just like Bryyo, Elysian, and the Pirate Homeworld had Guardians for their Leviathan Seeds (Mogmenar, Helios, and Omega Ridley), Tallon IV's Leviathan Seed Guardian was Metroid Prime and Aether's Guardian was Emperor Ing.
MAkes you question the entire Video if he overlooked something as simple as that....I mean even as a Child that didn't understand english back in the day this was pretty obvious.
@@TurKlack You're German, aren't you?
@@TurKlack no it really does not
I honestly love Prime 3 for the world building more than anything else.
I love how the Aurora units are Mother Brains and how there are other bounty hunters.
A shame the 'main' series (the 2D games) completely ignore all of the Prime series lore and world-building, to the point that there are still debates as to whether the Prime games are even 'canon' or not.
It's a known fact that Yoshio Sakamoto (the main guy behind 2D Metroid) wants nothing to do with the Prime games and has explicitly stated he has no intention of incorporating them into his true vision for the series (plus he's never played them). Though I guess to his credit, he never flat-out stated that they are non-canon, and he did allow Mercury Steam to put Meta-Ridley into Samus Returns (though it's unlikely Sakamoto even knows about Meta-Ridley).
I think I'm pretty alone there but I like all MP games for what they are in their different way. I don't compare them and figure out what's missing or what could be made better as seen in other parts of the series but rather take them as they are and immerse myself into the correspondent world. I like MP1 for being some kind of 3D Super Metroid. I like MP2 for travelling between similar but different world. And I like MP3 for the firmer storytelling as they already did in 2D with Metroid Fusion. That's why I still hope there will be an HD collection for the switch anytime soon.
darkIkarus totally agree in every way.
I agree with all this.
Hey that's how I feel about Dark Souls. I think they're all great and bad for their own reasons
This is why we’re now friends.
Well in order for that to happen, they first need to do the Fusion Remake which was confirmed 2-3 years ago.
I enjoyed this review, but I think you're being too critical of the "shooty-shooty, bang-bang" sections, as I felt like they were like they were boss fights with a twist. Especially with your example of fighting off space pirates on a "flying bomb". Not only was it exciting that you were on a Skytown platform, armed with a thermonuclear warhead, free falling to make contact with a Leviathan, but the added danger of needing to repair the escape pod by soldering the circuit board with the plasma cannon was absolutely thrilling--it's one of the most memorable moments in gaming for me.
You talk about easy to get energy tanks, but ignore hyper mode. You say how good the Wii remote feels in game, but criticize it for adding more action. You mention how only perfectionists care about 100%, but disregard that this effects the ending you get since the first game.
You have valid points, but it just feels like you went after low hanging fruit. What's obvious is that it's different for a Metroid game; however, it's also obvious that it was the only Metroid on the Wii. More story and lore to give context to more action, taking advantage of a new control scheme without sacrificing too much of the theme (in fact, adds more dimension) and classic gameplay makes it an excellent game and sequel, period.
"Only Metroid on the Wii"
I love how we've all agreed that Other M doesn't exist
@@papersonic9941 "Other" what now?
In all seriousness, I actually feel a little dumb that I completely forgot that Other M existed on the Wii.
👏👏👏
Paul Andreotti it’s not your fault. I also forget that it exists until I see it in my stash of Wii games I’ve never finished.
What is this Other M? Some kind of TV game show?
It has its flaws, but I do love this game. I like how when you're first "set free" that you have the choice to go to two planets. It would have been great if both planets were accessible, and gave you a power-up; but require the power-up from the opposite planet to finish both planets.
"The meteor blast showered the galaxy"
I don't think you understood that. Other meteors actually landed in those planets. You just stopped the one on Norion.
Maybe he should've enabled hints ;)
It's almost like people who have an undisguised contempt for storytelling in games don't pay attention when the game tries to tell them a story.
*coughcough* _Arin Hanson_ *cough*
@@cinnamonnoir2487 *increases coughing volume*
That would be one hell of an explosion to shower the whole galaxy in shrapnel.
And considering how fast said shrapnel would need to be moving, there likely wouldn't be planets left after the impacts.
Elysium, to this day, is one of my favorite settings, not just in Metroid, but in gaming. I am just over the moon for the aesthetic, the heavenly music, the goofy tin man enemies, all of it.
@@will_of_europa hey, at least I'm not an obnoxious shithead who feels the need to shit on other people's opinions over the internet! 👉👉
I like Sanctuary fortress better.
i agree, its name is Elysia though
Metroid Prime Hunters actually had planet hopping first. Though to be fair, this game did a LOT more with it, and let you actually see the inside of the ship instead of just a 10 second per-rendered scene. lol
Also as far back as Metroid Fusion the Ship was used as a set piece in the game during more than just start and finish. The space station loses power and the ship is your only place to save/ get your next objective. It's not super involved, but I enjoyed that moment when I first played fusion.
came here to say this
You see inside the gunship in Hunters, it's just that it's not 3 dimensional.
@@josephhawkins7974 Your right i forgot about the moment you lose power in fusion
Came here to say this :D
Talking about the chozo/sky temple keys and how they kill the pacing, I can't help but think "what if they were optional." And then of course you think about the king's soul in hollow knight. Seems like such an amazing idea alone, but if you look at games that influenced it, it pops right out as the most obvious thing in the world. How do you reward exploration? They multiple keys. How do you avoid killing the pacing? Don't make them necessary. But then what will reward the player for getting them? True ending. Duh.
And this is why we love analyzing games. Some of the best ideas for future games are glaringly obvious if you just take the time to look at past games and see what works and what didn't.
Yep, Hollow Knight surely learned from the metroid prime trilogy's fetchquest at the end and twisted it a bit further so if players decide on their own to get everything, they will be rewarded big time with a totally new ending and with a new boss fight at the end. That totally works! It's great when franchises learn from one another and improve on the same genre to move it forwards.
Making them optional for some "true ending" would've been fantastic, and in-line with saving the animals in Super Metroid.
Reward for exploration is keys, and if you get them, you get a true ending? Dude, you just described missile tanks, energy tanks, ship missile expansion, power bomb expansion, etc.
The king soul is divided in two only, and one of these items requires to beat a new boss, the other is in a full new area. The optionnal part is definitively not the only thing better here.
@@gamer_boi2470 The true ending in question is a 10 seconds added cutscene, and getting every item is not especially interesting.
honestly prime 3 was my favorite, i found all the new contraptions and new ways to use old abilities very interesting as well as using the gunship other than a glorified save point. I also don't mind the hand holding unlike most metroid fans i liked the inclusion of character interactions and having the computer talk to you every once in a while.
I've really been enjoying this series. Great production quality and interesting insights.
My fav pat of metroid prime games is the Lore and Scans
I see youre a man of culture as well
It's definitely something that needs to be brought up more often. You end up finding out that apparently Space Pirates use metroids as both pets and target practice lol.
Mine as well. Definitely made the environments feel a tad less abandoned and more immersive.
@@jhonj5702 Well, they try to
I'm dying to see the Hollow Knight episode.
Icarosz Ikr.
So much
Oh man yes please!
Icarosz i m waiting for dishonored....
Just stop this shit.. every fricking video someone shout out Hollow knight.. My god its not even that great. -especially the half point of the game.. It does nothing but waste players time. In the later the game it will turn out like Dark soul where you can kill three bosses in any order you want. Its really not that great. Dark soul and Super metroid did it much better.
8:58 Big facts right here, it's a really fine line to walk I think between how much a game lets the player figure out on their own vs how much it talks you through things. You don't want feel completely dumped off with no instruction or clues whatsoever, but you also don't want to get so reliant on instruction that you can't do without it. Subtlety goes a long way, nudge don't hand hold
Perfectly put, especially in this generation where players might feel the urge to have answers right away on what to do or where to go, or the players might not stay as interested or engaged to find the solution, or else they'll look for answers online which defeats the purpose altogether.
I liked how it felt like stuff was goign on in the world around me. Things I didn't actually WATCH happen, like the universe kept existing even when I wasn't looking at it.
after 2 games where I felt terrifyingly alone, it was a nice change that samus has friends now, and these intelligent computers that integrate perfectly into the story.
.. then watch as they all get horribly corrupted and you see samus can't have nice things.
@@KairuHakubi Such is the life of the bounty hunter.
I’m surprised at how critical you ended up being of all three Prime games; it didn’t sound like you particularly enjoyed any of them. Which is perfectly fine! But I do think viewing a game through a specific lens can have its drawbacks. Like, viewing these games purely through the lens of “how good is this at executing the traditional Metroid formula?” can make you miss just how good these games are AS GAMES. The mixture of atmosphere, puzzle solving, combat all rolling into one at any given moment is what I think makes this series so iconic, not necessarily its execution of the classic Metroidvania design.
I completely agree!
Right on the dot. Some of the best things about sequel games is how they cause the story to evolve. Can you imagine if the assassins creed series stayed with the same mechanics as #1 and we never got brotherhood or revelations because it “wasn’t the same formula”? Gosh I’m sad some people can’t appreciate growth because change = bad.
This is why I don't like these Boss Keys videos. I was already disappointed at the Zelda dungeon videos and was hoping the ones on Metroid would fare better, but I seem to have expected too much
@@gustavopaz5453 i personally hate how he uses linearity as a flaw.
@Raed 928 yet he still insists on complaining about every single time.
Aside from the powerups you can find in Valhalla it seems you missed one thing. Noting too special, it is a message from AU 313 before being stolen by space pirates. No extra ability but worth mentioning
The foreshadowing was pretty well done with that.
A little detail in this game's design is that samus' grapple beam hand has her indicator and middle finger metalized, and they are the fingers you use to press C and Z on the nunchuk. So when you grapple and pull using the motion on the nunchuk it feels so immersive.
Prime 3 is my favorite Metroid title, one of my favorite games of all time really, though I did start with it before playing Primes 1 or 2 so maybe I have a different perspective on it. Regardless, I think it's structure is strong and reminiscent more of Zero Mission than Fusion. The prople giving you orders being more like the Chozo statues than Adam.
I also can't describe it as easy to navigate or "hand-holding". I felt I was finding the answer to most problems or finding the right path on my own rather than it being directed for me. Maybe that's just me, not sure if that is really reflected in the game to be honest.
Of course, the other main strength is the shooting and world building. Each planet feels unique and the characters are interesting. In general, the presentation is fantastic.
What about the examples he gives, where doing an unrelated activity prompts a textbox telling you where to go next? That's pretty much the definition of handholding, at least in a Metroid game.
@@FungusTrooper You get told where to go, but how to get there is another story. Plus "go to Bryyo" is a bit more general than any one location.
But let's use one specific example. The "GF troop" that randomly pops up on them pirate homeworld leads immediately to a boss. After that boss, you get an item that lets you explore most of the planet and find the nova beam. At worst that is a temporary handhold for the sake of a tense battle that gives you the ability to explore.
If it's still a problem, think of it this way. Why doesn't U-Mos open all parts of the game for you immediately? Why can you only go to Agon at the start? I wouldn't bother worrying about this too much.
Semantic lore correction here…
The Leviathan Seeds didn't get scattered from the meteor above Norion; the meteor *was* a Leviathan like the others.
They were all sent out from Phaaze.
I also find it funny you consistently mispronounce some things that're voice-acted in the game, like "Bryyo".
But overall a very good video and analysis!
After watching what feels like 50 Boss Keys videos.. I'm starting to think that maybe these Metroid games might be quite good..
prime 1 was my first one. loved the atmosphere of it.
How unsurprising to see your name in this comments section!
Definitely play Zero Mission, AM2R, Super Metroid, Prime 1,2, and 3, and Metroid Fusion. They're all very different from one another but all great games that have aged incredibly well.
Super Metroid is one of the greatest video games of all time.
The 2D ones are. I wish I hadn't played Prime first, as it put me off the 2D games for over a decade. Turns out, it's just Prime that gargles gonads, not the entire franchise.
Let's hope Retro Studios see your Boss Keys videos to get inspiration to nail Metroid Prime 4!
Bro i have faith it's gonna be fantastic.
Please no scavenger hunts.
Video Game Animation Study Quick tweet them the videos!
@@JohnGuyJohn in a series that defines exploration? MADNESS
@@coolguy02536 Why would one imply the other? There's are no scavenger hunts in any 2D Metroid. (A scavenger hunt meaning: go get all these items that confer no benefit other than allowing the game to advance.) It's something Retro loves to do, for some reason.
A great analysis, but I feel like it would have been worth mentioning why the game hands you so many energy tanks, and straight up forces you to collect two of them.
The phazon abilities are a core mechanic of combat, and are sometimes required for exploration purposes, but the price for the power is 100 points of damage to yourself.
Actually, the price is "however much you shoot". As long as you don't enter corrupt hypermode, you can exit it and get your unspent energy back.
@@zerarch77 Fair point, you can totally shoot one hyper missile and leave. My personal experience means nothing, but I usually just balls to the wall time out the corruption for max value since you can't take damage like that.
Exactly. and EVEN with how many tanks it gives you, i was still too chicken to use it much.
This game is ALL about corruption. It's even in the title! Phazon is a power trip! And using it puts you in even greater risk of losing your mind, your sanity, your will to Dark Samus. Energy Tanks are your life meter... meaning Phazon starts to become more and more your life.
And then the last sequence of the game, you realize what the price of power means, as it's all that energy that almost kills Samus...
@@KairuHakubi I had the same problem up until i started the games Hypermode difficulty. Enemies are far more aggresive about going Hypermode themselves and nigh impossible to kill in Hypermode, which turns your own Hypermode into a necesity and one you need to learn well. Sometimes it is best to pop in briefly and blast an enemy before exiting for minimal self damage, but other times it was better to skirt the edge of corruption and use the extra time and energy to tackle bigger threats.
It is honestly one of the most thrilling hard modes I have played, because, at least for me, it changed how I apporached the entire experience. Sacrificing health to Hypermode was no longer a choice, it was a necesity and by extension correct management of Hypermode became an important skill.
I really disagree that this one is the weakest in the series. While it might have less traditional Metroid aspects, it felt like a necessary shift after how stale Metroid prime 2 felt.
It took a lot of risks for the series but calling it weak because those risks aren't "Metroid" enough is how you drive a developer to kill a series.
Troy Prater but mark's point wasn't that were bad because they are not "metroid" enough, it's because it doesn't fit the genre. There is a difference between trying new things, which is usually pretty good, and adding stuff that shouldn't be there or is unnecessary. As he said, metroid is not about the shooting mechanics and it never has been, and while adding some extra shooting is fine and adds up to the experience, there is a fine line that defines when this is a cool add up and when it is just senseless mechanics that break away from what the game is, mechanics that maybe didn't have a purpose to be there other than "it's cool". And from what I got, he also said that the issue is that some of these new features weren't really implemented well enough, so that's why it may be a weaker game in the series
Finally someone agrees with me about prime 2
This was the first Metroid game I played and while in terms of plot, it's not a great place to jump in, it is a perfect starting point mechanically. Metroid Prime 1 was overwhelming for me enough even having played 3. If I had started with 1, I'd likely have never bothered with the series because being thrown into the deep end isn't something I particularly like. Yet because Prime 3 helped ease me into things, I've played and completed every single Metroid game besides the very original two and Federation force. Though I have completed the remakes of the first two.
And for me Prime 2 is far and away the weakest in the Prime series...honestly possibly the weakest Metroid game period. Other M was silly but Prime 2 was filled with stupid ideas like unbalanced bosses that were a 30min trek from the nearest save point, extremely visually similar worlds, an ammo system, and large chunks of time hiding in light bubbles.
Prime 1 just barely beats out Prime 3 for me. 2 is miles behind in the dirt.
He likes prime 2 more becouse he doesn't like backtracking done right, he doesn't like to think about exploration. He prefers to have a simple sector maze instead of a deeply designed hidden path with interconnected loops.
I personally hate it, on top of the milion hp enemies that made no sense.
Prime 1 beats prime 3 only by a small bit becouse of how well designed the exploration was, but prime 3 combat is just amazing.
And they are all definetly better than shooting and bombing random walls to find items and paths in 2d games.
Agree. Prime 3 is my favorite in the franchise to date. I think the games needed some streamlining after Echoes. Other M went way too far in that regard, but Corruption struck a nice balance, I felt. I also think it had to be more bombastic as the final act of a trilogy.
Although this game never quite hit the heights of Prime 1, I will always have some very fond memories of exploring Elysia for the first time, the music and world design there was stunning at the time.
100% agree. Elysia is beautifully constructed and designed. A stand out in the meteoid universe.
I agree as well, I would love to visit Elysia in a future Metroid (Prime) game. The many more pods on the horizon suggested to me that it is a much bigger civilization than we explored in Metroid Prime 3. Floating steam punk world...
"Metroid Prime 3 couldn't decide whether it wanted to be a game where Samus follows an authority's orders or one where she explores an alien world on her own authority."
I have a different perspective, which is that Corruption wanted to be _both_ and actually managed to do a pretty good job of it. Most Metroid games have Samus' mission instructions and input from her superiors just bookend the story instead of actually being part of it. Prime 1 and Prime 2 both did very little to advance the story of Phazon's effect on the universe, which isn't surprising given that a non-linear structure provides few occasions for dramatic plot-related events to happen.
The third game was left carrying the bag as far as advancing the story was concerned, but it turned that burden into an opportunity. It featured characters I could relate to and a plot I found interesting, something that no other Metroid game has done besides Fusion, and even then Prime 3 did a better job. Games are more than just a collection of mechanics; how you put those mechanics in a dramatic context matters a lot, and Corruption did an amazing job of contextualizing.
I've heard KingK make arguments similar to yours to the effect that Corruption is an inferior Prime game because Samus is following directions and engaging in military maneuvers instead of wandering freely and blowing up things at her own pace. But if you think of Samus as someone who works for a galactic military force, what she does in this game is a _lot_ more like what her job would normally be than what she does in Metroid Prime. She must be able to effectively work on a team, or she wouldn't be trusted by the Federation. She must occasionally need assistance or advice from others, or she wouldn't be a human being.
In general, I would sum up Corruption by saying that it's more _realistic_ than the rest of the Metroid series, and that's not necessarily a good thing for everybody, but I found it refreshing. Samus in this game has stakes to fight for, friends that she gains and loses, and a dramatic story that's driven by agents other than herself. If Metroid can't have those things without getting savaged by fans for being different, maybe it would be better if Nintendo stopped making it.
That doesn't fix most of the issues mentioned. Like the random proggresion that makes no sense. I.e you got screw attack and can now explore vahalla but not because it was blocked by something recquiring the screw attack but just because the game decides you can. Thats just bad game design
@@Conoert You mentioned exactly one issue, and I don't even know where you're coming from on that. I've heard that you can _skip_ a section using the screw attack on Valhalla, but progression there is based on energy cells, not whether or not you have the screw attack.
Progression in Prime 3 is no more random or senseless than progression was in Prime 2. You're going to have to be more clear and give me some actual examples if you expect to convince me this game was badly designed.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 8:14
@@Conoert Okay, I see what you're talking about. I had forgotten about that point in the game, because I remember going to the Valhalla pretty early, but maybe I didn't realize how early you get the screw attack. Let me go into this a little more.
The discovery of the wrecked Valhalla by the Federation after Samus finds the screw attack is a plot development. It's not that the Valhalla was around and was arbitrarily locked off; from the game's perspective, no one _knew_ the Valhalla's significance until it was found. The same is true for the "trapped soldier" on the Pirate Homeworld. These were put in to add a little drama to the game and make it more exciting.
This isn't "random" progression, it's just plot-based rather than mechanic-based. That's a necessary corollary of setting the game on multiple planets, since moving from one to another would have to be dictated by external events rather than player progression; it's not like you can walk from Bryyo to Elysia. I _appreciated_ the fact that this game chose to do something different, and the multiple planets is part of that.
By the way, this isn't the first time in the series that progression has been gated off by non-mechanical, plot-based obstacles. Prime 2 was full of those hologram gates blocking off later levels that can only be opened once you've visited the shrines in earlier levels and listened to the Luminoth spiel. The game gating these areas off isn't any less arbitrary from the standpoint of design. It's meant to make the game feel more dramatic and have you visit levels in an order more or less anticipated by the designers.
I've said before that Corruption was stuck in an awkward place as the final game in a trilogy because the other games had virtually no plot to speak of. That's a legitimate problem, Retro found a novel way to handle it, and I'm annoyed that you and many other people don't give them credit for that. If Corruption had been just another Metroid game, the story would have had nowhere to go. Mark needs to take a step back and ask himself if he really wants this series to always stay exactly the same, or if it's beneficial for it to have occasional departures like this. My opinion, now as before, is that it _needs_ that variety.
I enjoyed this game to very much. Pointing out a tiny point i think is an example of bad game design is not grounds to assume i dislike a game I did enjoy. There is nothing wrong with plot based proggresion. The problem is communication because the rest of metroid is mechanical progression players can get confused when they aren't progressing in the way they are used to. Corruptions real flaw was not adjusting the systems to compensate for their new direction. I think a good idea would be to use cutscenes for subtle hints. I.e "There seems to be a mystery but we are working on it. Keep exploring this thing and we will get back to you." Now the player is aware that they might progress on plot. Please don't strawman me into claiming I don't appreciate a studios hardworl just because they didn't create an immaculate conception of a video game.
Ah yes, the Metroid that got me into the series by being a good beginner title, easing you into exploration and not leaving you lost.
I just want to point out that there's really no way Samus can be alone during 100% of her missions or all her life. I never thought there was anything fundamentally un-metroid about experiencing parts of her life where she isn't alone.
People like to think Samus is some kind of antisocial badass who can't work with others.
All aboard the Hollow Knight Hypetrain!
Tanamar M Choo! Choo! (Rocket)
Yeah I can't wait! Blue lake in the background at the end of video pretty much confirms it.
SHAW!
DOMA! Doma doma doma!
I thought we use stag?
The Aurora unit chiming in is nowhere near as bad as you make it seem.
Also defending a nuke while on said nuke was one of the standout moments of the game for me
I didn't despise Fi, so I don't think I'll mind Aurora
@@Attaxalotl with Fi she straight up stopped link in his tracks to talk, with Aurora it's just a little text box that pops up on the bottom of your screen that you can ignore
I loved how cinematic Prime 3's story moments were.
The solid voice acting work really sold me on it, and I still liek replaying this game today! :D
It really helped flesh out the Metroid Universe and Samus. I'm glad they tried to do something a little different
Honestly I love all the metroidvania tropes people will make fun of...
game: she had amnesia
me: omg she had amnesia...
game: and she lost all her powers
me: omg she lost her powers...
birdeynamnam we’re friends now, don’t worry, I decided for you.
I'm the exact type of gamer for most games I play lol. Not too critical, and you'll enjoy most of life. 😌💕
With such a resurgence in good metroidvanias and moving away from everything trying to be like Halo, or copying a AAA in its given genre, hopefully 4 really focuses on what makes Metroid great
if we ever get it
I like the Halo like Nature.
It could have Halo moments and Metroid moments
I mean Metroid is and always has been a AAA title. Technically, that means metroidvania indie games _are_ trying to be like a AAA game.
FRED THERED everything trying to be like Halo? Not so sure you realize what you are saying
@@LuisXRivas in the 2000s halo was the big game that every shooter took stuff from. But just about every shooter did that stuff worse than halo.
2:00 "lengthy" prologue that takes 90 minutes to finish *laughs in kingdom hearts fan*
Deep down, Kh fans know that "Kh the story so far" released on ps4 is only a big prologue for kh3
laughs in trails in the sky
3:05 The destruction of the Norion Leviathan did not shower the galaxy with Leviathan seeds, leading to the corruption of the other two planets. The other planets were hit during the same attack with totally separate meteors. The Norion attack was the lead attack to draw all attention away from the other two target planets.
As a designer thinking about incorporating 3D Metroidvania mechanics into the next project I'm working on, I was watching the first 2 Prime videos a couple of days ago thinking about when the Prime 3 video would be dropped. After seeing this today I had a genuine 'fuck yeah!' fist pump moment. Keep up the great work!
So how did the project go, David?
@@Orange_Swirl It went nowhere, unfortunately...
Metroid prime 3 is my favorite metroid game. I just love it. I love the characters, I love the visuals, and I FREAKING LOVE the music. Seriously, the music is AMAZING.
I loved the lore and the universe they drew too. Some of the battles were quite challening and I loved them too.
I don't know, I loved almost everything about Metroid prime 3.
3:57 Second time, actually. Hunters had multiple planets as well.
Great take. One comment I’d like to touch on “Just play Halo”. Halo was on a completely different system and for a different audience. I understand the point you’re making of keeping Metroid games to space exploration but I don’t think it works with this example.
For people who were only able to have one console there wasn’t a halo to just play on the Wii. Having these big sections where the space army was relying on you, a lone bounty hunter, to help them also felt pretty good thematically.
This is something that other m took in the wrong direction though making you more like a lapdog.
Yeah this game was one example where trying some new stuff with an established franchise worked perfectly (metroid prime 1 being another example), and halo-type circlestrafe-based dance-like shooters (rather than these shooting galleries where you can just stand still or have to hide in cover all the time) are rare enough, so I loved seeing that kind of stuff in this game.
In this context “Just play Halo” is merely a figure of speech, which means if you want a normal linear, traditional shooter, there are other games, but metroid prime is its own thing and fills a space that nothing else quite does.
And yes there are definitely traditional fps games on Wii, quite a few actually:
- The Conduit 1 & 2
- At least 6 Call of Duty games
- At least 3 Medal of Honor games
- Far Cry: Vengeance
- 2 Red Steel games (although the 1st aint that great)
- A GoldenEye remake (with a digital copy of the original also available)
- At least 2 Brothers in Arms games
- Sniper Elite
And a few more.
So yeah, more than enough traditional fps games on wii, no reason to "corrupt" (sorry just had to) Metroid Prime.
@@tiaangerber4248 Hey, Red Steel 2 was great!
@@aidennoir597 Ok, yeah to be fair it was a huge improvement over the first, even if the controls werent always perfectly on point, I think the 1st just left such a bad taste in my mouth. I'll correct my comment ;)
@@tiaangerber4248 Funny how you're saying developers shouodn't "corrupt" the prime series when Metroid Prime in itself was a "corruption" of Metroid
Really interesting to watch these videos on the Metroid Prime games. A lot of the issues you brought up really didn't bother me at all while I was playing (I kind of enjoy running back and forth through the environment and meticulously checking previous rooms, for example), so I'd never really thought about them from the perspective you present, and focusing on the practicalities of the world design. Always do enjoy getting to see different thoughts on the things I love. I'll hope to maybe see more when we (eventually) get to look at Prime 4.
Is it just me or that sounded more like a review than a boss key episode?
Although your perspective is ultimately positive I can't help but feel that you're ignoring the time in which the game was made. It was 2007, and the only games that were anything like Metroid ... were Metroid. This was also the 4th Prime game in a 5 year period, meaning that you kind of have to keep mixing things up to make each game not run together and provide enough of a reason to check out the new one.
Combine that with the weak sales of MP2 and the growing popularity of Halo in 2007, and there's a very obvious reason why it took on a more cinematic and assisting approach. Metroid's sales have never matched its status in game history, and not only do I not blame them for trying to expand its audience (it managed to outsell MP2 at least) but I think they handled it well. I really appreciated having a more upfront way of experiencing that world, and the cutscenes did a fine job of that. Its also a great way of introducing Prime to FPS fans who weren't quite ready for something like Prime 1 or Super Metroid.
Your points are likely true, but I think your argument falls under a different topic of discussion. While Mark shows subjectivity in his criticisms (what critique isn't subjective?), this show isn't about analyzing and/or sympathizing with economic decisions. Delving into the socio-econimic business side of why Prime 3 is kinda like other popular shooters of the time in order to excuse these choices is invalid to the analysis being made.
@@will_of_europa
Yeah, you tell those brain dead idiots! You keep on goin into threads and posting that. Look at you. Big boy, surfing the internet all by himself. Giving his big, adult opinions. You're doin a really good job.
@@will_of_europa
Yeah, you tell those brain dead idiots! You keep on goin into threads and posting that. Look at you. Big boy, surfing the internet all by himself. Giving his big, adult opinions. You're doin a really good job.
On the other hand, Echoes came out on a dying console, while Corruption came out on the wii, which was selling extremely well . If you consider this, I'd say Echoes did better. On most prime trilogy comparison I've seen, Prime 2 also always gets a a little more votes than Prime 3, while prime 1 crushes both of them.
This game has a special place in my heart. I love it to bones 😍
One touch about Prime 3 that I really like is how you can use the ship to travel to different landing zones on the various planets. They're effectively warp points, but it ties in with how useful the ship can be (something I hope gets further explored in Prime 4), and how it can minimize backtracking without affecting the overall design feels good. There are still plenty of times where it's worth making the trek to explore, and the design of the worlds themselves usually provide dynamic looping once you get key items, but it provides more flexibility without feeling essemtial
Good Video but i feel like you were just complaining about MP3's short comings and most of the issues you had just seemed like nitpicks, just enough to make a 14min video (which i dont get how since there werent much). Most of the things you said were mostly personal opinonated issues because i had no issue with this game at all and ive spent the last weeks replaying it from normal to veteran modes. Retro Studios tried something different to appeal to that "revolutionary nature" the Metroid franchise has been known for, they tried something new that majority of people loved, i think these 'cutscenes' or 'dialogue' that you had so many issues with (some warranted, some not at all) were neccesary for this series to keep up with the changing landscape of gaming from the 2010s onward. This video did not feel like an 'explanation' of MP3's world design but more of 'guy nitpicks about small issues in a metroid game because youtube views'. I came here to learn about Metroid Prime 3's 'World Design', not some guy complaining.
You mention that you get a lot of Energy Tanks, but you don't mention _why_ the designers would do this; Hypermode using up your energy tanks, and being required to use for the Seed Bosses, means that E-Tanks are a lot more important, and arguably necessary for a first-time player to beat the game.
It's also worth noting that not only do you only need 5 Energy Cells, but 2 of them are required to obtain, and 4 of them are so close to the main path that they're basically free (One of them literally at the front door of the Valhalla). This is actually a stark contrast from Prime 1 and Echoes, where a good portion of the Artefacts and Keys are so far out of the way that you need to do a lot of tedious backtracking even if you're not going for 100%. It even made me appreciate the puzzle with the Ship Grapple even more, because for as long as it is, it is totally optional.
Also, "Prime 3 marks the first time Samus’s ship actually gets used outside of the opening and closing cutscenes".
Yeah, people like forgetting Hunters. Shame, cause I think it gives a good impression of what Nintendo's idea of a Prime game would have been. I even think it's one of the most non-linear Metroid games. There might be something interesting in there for a future episode
Thank you for pointing that out!
No, energy tanks are not more important. The game is very easy besides the final boss in hard mode, which is instead way too difficult and also happens to be the boss where hypermode is not really a thing because it's just the default mode.
As for the energy cells, they only work well for replays, because you know which door to open in Valhalla. And if you're like me and want to always do 100%, it doesn't matter at all.
Soon, one of these days, I will make a game that you will review!
Looking forward to it bro
I have great memories of playing Corruption. It was my first Metroid game and I loved the atmosphere, the alien settings, the music and the gameplay. It was so smooth and the wii controls were incredibly intuitive. It was tough as nails too and it was immensely satisfying to beat the game on hypermode difficulty. You talked about solitude and I thought this game absolutely nailed that feeling of complete loneliness, especially in Elysia. I remember flying back to the tutorial world sometimes just because I wanted to be around other people.
Hrm? No episode for Fusion? I mean, I guess I understand, seeing as how it's another kind of linear "boss character telling you where to go" entry, but I was kind of looking forward to your insights on how that kind of framework functions in a Metroidvania, especially in regards to how it gives a focus to a developer-told narrative, instead of player-driven exploration. You touched a little bit on the subject here, but didn't go into much detail.
EDIT: While I'm still thinking about it, maybe a short combo episode with Fusion and Other M would be worth your time, as they play out somewhat similarly (albeit one more successfully than the other). I know Other M catches a lot of flak (rightly so), but it had some ideas in it that could have held merit, and it's always worth taking a look at something's failures so as to learn from them.
The unfortunate confusion is that the series is titled "The World Design of..." but the content is more akin to "The Ludonarrative Design of...". Fusion's areas are quite interconnected and labyrinthine, but all anybody seems to see is the big marker on the map saying "go here"... which isn't even always there! It's unfair to the title.
I love Metroid Fusion, and it has many things going for it, but this series is about world design, and that is not Fusion's interesting points at all. Fusion is a lot more about story and atmosphere. The exploration aspect does come into play where the linearity breaks down (at least a little) as you regain your agency alongside your powers.
It's certainly 100 times better executed than Other M.
Szabu ironically, I believe that fusion’s atmosphere heavily benefits from its world. Each and every location reveals more and more unsettling truths hidden on the station, even if you aren’t actively thinking of them. The primary obvious one is Sector 1’s SR388 simulation, but the locations throughout all contribute to the atmosphere by working with the story to raise tension. Sector 6’s darkness wouldn’t have half the fear factor if the Sector 5 X didn’t invade, and Sector 5’s cold climate, something not seen on SR388, leading to the adaptive X changing with the cold is something fascinating and terrifying. That this still unknown threat could spontaneously adapt to vastly different environments, especially one that is still extremely hostile to you even after you acquire the varia suit, is something that just story alone couldn’t supply.
Hell, the security bot is one of the best shows of world building working towards the atmosphere. Up to this point, we’ve only seen X infect solely living creatures. Suddenly, a security goes rogue due to X infection? And it’s revealed to actually be a biomechanical being? Very interesting, and implicative of an attempt by either BSL or the Galactic Federation to replicate, atleast in part, mother brain.
TLDR; Fusion actually has really solid world building, especially considering how small it’s physical scale is compared to other metroid games
I think you caught how I feel about this game greatly. "Just below the standards of Prime 1 and 2, but it introduces cool new ideas". Like Prime 3 is freaking epic, and it has a big story like Fusion and Other M but it isn't that intrusive and bad; and you have classic Metroid moments everywhere. It's hard to say why I enjoy Prime 1 and 2 more, but dang Prime 3 is a 10/10 tbh.
I love Prime 3 because, conceptually, it shows another side of the Metroid universe. A Metroid universe full of war and conflict. I personally think the softer, introspective and reflective exploration, atmosphere filled experience of Metroid can co-exist alongside the more energetic, high-octane, military and combat focused aspect. Because Samus is a bounty hunter, and a legendary one at that. Who's to say what her next mission will bring?
This series has been an amazing journey, Thank you very much! I'm excited to see what comes next!
Boss Keys for La Mulana, I dare you
I would absolutely love that! Best MetroidVania that few have heard of.
Your analysis is sound as always, and I'm always so impressed by it - but honestly, I think one of the most underrated parts of your videos, at least by me, is how well your animations and interfaces are. They look so extremely casual and intuitive that they feel like you just bought some pre-built software which does exactly this for all kinds of, well, video game upgrade orders and level design layouts for example, and that's quite a feat!
3:04 That is not what happened at all! Where did you hear this?
Yes, finally! I loved the previous two videos so much and have been looking forward to your video about Metroid Prime 3 ever since! Your videos are fantastic!
Another boss keys ep.?
Great times to be alive
Sky Town soundtrack changed my life. Probably my best soundtrack in all of gaming.
You sir, have good taste!
6:27
This is something I've always wrestled with when thinking about game design: Is it *really* the best idea for designers to just *hope* players will make it through their open world without any hiccups? Or is it just a passivity spurred on by an extreme hesitation to interfere with the player's unique experience?
I think ultimately, because of the nature of games at their very core requiring players to do specific things in order to in, in order for the game to end, there will never be a complete escape from linearity. What's more, the hope that logic will win the day, that players will put the pieces together themselves, is a foolish hope at times, as I know more than a few players like myself who have gotten stuck in games like Super Metroid and basically had the fanbase turn their backs on them, as if all of us did something objectively wrong.
So in the case of Prime 3, I will take my extra dialogue, I will take my instructions on where to go and what to do, because ultimately, even the phrase "hand-holding" is disingenuous. The player still has to go there. The player still has to do the things there, overcome challenges, you name it. If those challenges weren't fulfilling, it's not because of the context in which the player was *led* to them, it's because the game is simply too easy.
Man, just.... thank you for this channel.
Prime 3 is still one of my top three favorite Metroid games and I'm glad to see people talking about it. I feel like it handles tension, combat, and expanding on Samus world the best. There was so much going on when it comes to lore and who Samus works with that it never felt dull for me. Also the ship Valhalla and Elysia's metroid section could be really scary for first time players.
Metroid Prime 3 wasn't the first Metroid to let you travel between planets mid-game. The first game to do it was Metroid Prime Hunters, which came out in 2006.
If they changed it so that MP3 started with the ghost ship segment, the Valhallah (adjusted for balance) it would have felt sooooo much more like a traditional Metroid game. Plus... can you imagine the atmosphere that might promote?
Instead of defending Norion, you arrive to find the battle come and gone. And the creepy spectre of the remains hangs over everything. Just that one change would re-contextualize the genocide on Bryyo, and the vague sense of 'ghost town' on Elysis would be emphasized. The pirate homeworld has a vague resemblance to the Valhalla (the same dark and low-light feel in many segments). And instead of the pirates being beaten at their strongest and thus much less of a realistic threat (the Norion defeat made them feel a lot less threatening) and you simply walk into their house and kick them when they are down, it's you against the pirates and they are a murderous threat that terrified you with the first level. A threat that rewards you with serious badass points when you beat them.
Lost opportunities...
Prime 3 just felt like Prime's take on Fusion to me.
I'm glad I found this. Not a lot of people talk about this game, and I always thought it had something good about it, but I never got to pinpointing it myself. That said, I appreciate its overall critique, and how you talk about the weird things that make it an outlier.
Edit: I hope to all hell That Prime 4 is the best one yet. This series needs some love.
I feel like MP3's generosity with the energy tanks was to make the difficulty curve more natural. Metroid, Zelda, and any other adventure-esque game where you can significantly expand your health bar with collectables always have this scaling issue where it can be incredibly easy to die to common causes early on when you have only 100 health or 3 hearts, only to have everything become significantly more trivial by the time you collect multiple health containers that double, triple, and ultimately (in the case of Metroid) even x 15 your starting health. No matter how weak the enemies are in that first Zelda dungeon, you're far more likely to game over there than any of the subsequent ones.
That said, there is a certain amount of joy in Metroid games when enemy encounters that were previously daunting become effortless (turning beacons into lures that melt ing, one shotting minibosses with nova & x-ray, etc.), so I guess going from 100 health to 1500 health plays into that fantasy of becoming a badass through exploration. However, it still means that the devs need to design fair obstacles that account for players that could have their max health at a large pool of values.
Anyways, nice overview! I enjoyed a lot of MP3, and the Prime games as a whole, but definitely valid points all around. I really hope Retro manages distill the best of each of the MP games for MP4, because there's enough material in the trilogy to make a stand-out sequel.
"There are two types of Metroid games."
I think you forgot Metroid Prime Federation Force.
He wasn't _technically_ wrong. You see, Federation Force and Hunters both fall into a third category that I like to call "Not Actually Metroid Games", along with Metroid Prime Pinball and the Morph Ball rolling microgame from Wario Ware: Smooth Moves.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 Hunters, Pinball, AM2R, and even Other M can all be considered Metroid games. FF objectively cannot. It's merely obligated to be on the wiki.
@@coolguy02536 You lost me at Pinball.
@@cinnamonnoir2487 Hard to believe it still towers over FF, I know...
Yeahhh!!!! I thought this series was over, so glad you’re continuing it :) thank you so so so much for this!
Exploring more of the Valhalla ship itself is a reward; it's one of the best areas in the series ambience-wise. I love it.
I'm personally not bothered by the more action-oriented nature of Prime 3. It's an acceptable change of pace from other Metroid games that still leaves more than enough room for the series core game design to thrive. I'd maybe even rank it above Prime 2, though I tend to consider all three games as equally good, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.
Great video on Metroid Prime 3. It wasn't the first Metroid to make use of the gunship to travel between locations, that was Metroid Prime Hunters over a year earlier. Metroid Prime Hunters would have made for an interesting video with regard to its upgrade breakdown in the order that each of the 6 major upgrades can be acquired.
Hope to see breath of the wild 2 's boss keys' video when it comes out
I'm still hoping for the Boss key's season 1 Wrap-up.
You mean the castlevania ones??
@@elvisdiaz2349 No, the zelda ones. We should've gotten a wrap up about general zelda Dungeon design.
Season 2 Is Metroidvanias (Metroid + Castlevania + Modern Metroidvanias)
@@gustavowadaslopes2479 It would be awesome if they did not just focus on just structure design... What are inside of these dungeons are also important part of the design....I felt like dark soul had great progress structure design but some areas where itself badly designed.
@@gustavowadaslopes2479 You get a very, very reduced version of this at the end of the BOTW video, 17:05:
"So, I guess that's it boys and girls. 16 games and 130 dungeons later and Boss Keys is finally finished. If you were wondering, that was 30 temples, 19 palaces, 9 levels, 8 towers, and 7 castles. Plus a bunch of turtles,, crypts, mines, bellies, sanctuaries, divine beasts, trees, woods, and plenty of other things.
We've seen dungeons that are a straight-forward gauntlet of combat and puzzles, those that are a complex maze of keys and locks, and a special handful of massive moving puzzle box dungeons. There have been terrific bosses, clever puzzles, memorable moments, and Fi. Ahem. As for Boss Keys itself, well, this has been a weird, interesting and largely enjoyable project. It's far from perfect and I would start it all from scratch if I could, but ultimately I think I learned a lot about the construction of non-linear, interconnected level design."
He does note in that same wrap-up though that he will work on a "conclusions" video. Someday? Maybe season 5 will be wrap-ups of the previous 4 seasons.
(It's GandrayDa and BREE-yo.)
The gratuitous energy tanks are to take advantage of the game's Hypermode feature, which drains your health pretty quickly unless you know how to use it properly, which is likely why the first one you get is unavoidable. It's the missile expansions and ship missile expansions that are vastly abundant (like the expansions in Fusion, since they had to add more due to the powerups not counting towards completion percentage). Since there's no Super Missile upgrade, you'd have to spam Seeker Missiles to even have a chance at running out. And you hardly ever use ship missiles, which can be refilled pretty quickly. Like Fusion, they merely had to shoehorn those in, so they're there for completionists. As for the Valhalla, it also had a secret message in the deepest section.
I got Prime Trilogy on the Wii but played Prime 3 first because if felt more modern and the more direct story in the beginning grabbed my attention more. I definitely remember liking 3 quite a bit, but after looking back on all the games now, I do think the first two were the best overall.
I really hope Prime 4 is good.
The next one is the one I’ve been waiting for since you started Metroidvanias
Even though Corruption was more action oriented than it's predecessors, comparing it to Halo is a sacrilege.
I'd love to see a brief boss keys episode on the first Dragon Quest game. I loved the NPCs who give you hints on how to interact with locations across the world map. It's like knowledge is your powerup. Of course, it also has a few key items, as well as "locks" where the "key" is just being at a high enough level. It's a really interesting game.
Excellent video, Mark. But I must add that this one felt more like a regular review than what I usually expect from Boss Keys. I don't know if that was your intention though. But I understand, since the game is so linear, there's not much to talk about regarding the exploration besides what you already stated here.
It would be interesting to see a Boss Keys on Gato Roboto. I'd also like to know if there are things that smaller Metroidvanias can afford to do that bigger ones can't do or would not do as well or as easily.
Working on the charts for it. Might be a bit.
Bold of you to say that Metroid: Other M is a Metroid game ;p
I liked it minus the talking
@@wrosebrock the setting and ambiance was really great in that game. Everything else tho, pee pee poo poo
evidently he doesn't think it's enough of a metroid game to actually cover it lol
You mean the opposite of a metroid game
As far as the objective gameplay, it is absolutely a Metroid game. As far as presentation and storytelling, it is a dumpster fire.
I still don't understand your issue with the key hunts in Prime 1 and 2. The games are about exploration, and I think doing a victory lap of the world just before the end of the game is the most logical conclusion to a world-exploration game.
Saying "using the power of the Wii" just sounds strange
didn't play a lot of wii games then I take it
Sounds like a Michael Rosen ytp
It kinda does. No idea how they made Prime 3 so beautiful and detailed(well most of it anyway-glares at Norion) on the wii.
Couple of corrections, the leviathan seeds all were sent out at the same time as the leviathan seed that was sent to norion. Also, metroid prime hunters had a similar planet mechanic with the gunship. I agree with your analysis! I do still love these games though (prime 3 included)
Yes, Can't wait to see his perspective on one of the greatest games of all time, Hollow Knight (fight me) :)
RoastedJustice who would want to fight the truth? Haha!
@@aerowalker3 Ah, another Man of Culture I see
Very good. It is the best game of all time.
Tbh I think Echoes is the only Metroid game close to the quality of Hollow Knight, and that's because it's more of an extremely good Zelda game than a metroidvania.
Boy this made me feel nostalgic. Corruption was the game that got me into Metroid, and it's one of my most re-played games on the Wii, alongside Super Mario Galaxy 2. I should go back to the Trilogy when Prime 4 comes out
No Metroid Fusion Boss Keys?
Weird, yeah, especially for how that game pre-figured the metroid prime 3 structure, of having all these tightly paced and separate mini-mazes, strung together with constrained and clear objectives.
@@michelottens6083 It seems Metroid fusion is too linear for boss key lol.
@@titanfall222jorge6 Definitely no less linear than the Wind Waker Zelda. And there's at least some exploration to do within each section of the game. I agree it'd require a shift from Mark Brown's model of "normal" for this series (Link's Awakening style, Super Metroid style large scale lock-and-key mazes). But he's already innovated models to deal with the linear zelda's, with hermetic puzzlebox style dungeons, with metroid's huge one-dungeon game... So it'd be that same kind of challenge, something to develop his analytic system with.
For that matter, I'd say there's lots to analyse in Metroid Prime Hunters as well. Then again, mister Brown slightly botched or phoned in his look at the Breath of the Wild Zelda and his analysis of Prime 3, so it's all fine I guess anyway. Leaves work for up-and-coming games studies folks.
Yeah, I was hoping he would cover Metroid Fusion as well :/ Maybe it's a bit too linear? It doesn't have much in terms of sequence breaking or open-endedness.
"The meteor explosion sent corrupted leviathan seeds across the galaxy." Fantastic world design breakdown. Moght want to proofread your story details.
Always bums me out when people say Prime 3 is the weakest. Because I absolutely consider Prime 3 to be my favorite Metroid game. I hope 4 is more like Prime 3 than Prime 2.
In many ways, Corruption is my favorite in the franchise.
The Galactic Federation realizes how big of a threat Phazon is, so they actually step up to work with bounty hunters to resolve this crisis. As much as they are cannon fodder, those troops don't quit. Admiral Dane is a Chad; the way he interacts with Samus is many times better than what Other M gave us with Adam. The Federation never exactly orders Samus what to do; they feed her information to help her accomplish their joint operation.
It introduces several different intelligent alien species with simple backgrounds, expanding the potential of how many different cultures exist in the Milky Way Galaxy.
I loved the motion and pointer controls much more than the GameCube control scheme.
And the graphics... Man alive I haven't seen anything this pretty anywhere else. The one adjustment I would make is to have human faces be more lifelike and less anime style.
My hopes are very high for Metroid Prime 4.
I reeeeeeally don't like having Fusion and Other M compared.
Yes, both were dialogue heavy and give you orders, but Fusion was a reimagining of the original formula and follows the series tenets in many ways, playing around with it's setting, and generally being one of the best ludonarratives ever realized, while other M is a spin-off that does not follow the formula at all. On top of, y'know, not being good.
Well said. Fusion is very good in its own regards; it tried to evolve over Metroid 2 aka handheld games which must work within their limitations. The 'handholding' in metroid fusion feels right.
Indeed, but the game just doesn't let you discover what to do next. Is like the Skyward Sword of the Metroid series I'm afraid. Still, I enjoyed that game. I just want Nintendo to stop making more and more accessible their Metroid games, they are meant to be a challenge, not a walking simulator.
@@ossdemura You are only told of your vague objective, and need to figure out what to do and how to get there and back on your own within constantly changing circunstances. plenty of figuring thigns out on your own.
Also, I don't think it's an issue of accessibility but of the newer devs not knowing what to do with the series. the teams that made metriod 1-4 and Prime 1 are no longer around.
Hey mate,
1 - Metroid Prime 3 gives you lot of energy tank because it's also used as ammo!
2 - You forgot to mention that the energy cells once you take them out it also alters the environment which is super important to their design. If you go through a path but have to leave without the power, it'll always require you to act different in a familiar environment such as going through vents or forcing doors openned, making the backtracking exciting. AM2R has scenarios like this (the Tower and the Distribution center), Super Metroid and Hyper Metroid too (the wrecked ship). I can't recall in the prime games but i have a souvenir this concept also appears in them.
3 - Metroid Prime Hunters, you should totally make a video about because it's a fantastic game largely ignored while it's a masterpiece. If you liked the control scheme on the wii (which is fantastic), the DS controls for Hunters is genius. The stylus, while a little awkward to hold, provides "analogous" controls which makes aiming as natural as using a wiimote or a mouse compared to using a joystick.
Anyways, great videos as always. I feel like you genuinely do understand metroid and its concepts as a whole, and you explain it very well, something that i've always struggled to because while i understand the whole too i find it really hard to break it down.
I love your stuff but the tone of the first few minutes bellies a kind of... contempt? for the more linear expressions of _Metroid_ .
That's all this series is.
Dunno if I expressed my self very well here, but I want to share some of my thought.
It's interesting how different our experience with the game is.
Personally, it's my favorite Metroid game.
For me, knowing what I'm doing is not has much of an issue if they don't tell me *how*.
Which the game usually does not.
But even then, I thought for a while why do I like this one so much more?
I think the thing it has over the other ones is the lore and exploration.
There is more to scan in this than any other games.
Exploring the shattered land of Bryo and learning what happened really brings the feeling of exploration to a new level.
(Heck using material that always had the same property adds to this has well.)
The environments were a lot more interesting and made me curious.
They should probably tune back how much the AI knows, but I like how storied the game is.
Also change of pace is not a bad thing. I enjoyed the raid on the space pirates quite a lot.
I'm confident there is a balance somewhere between prime 1 style and prime 3. (With a bit of Super Metroid style sequence break?)
Maybe to break this down, Prime 1 with more adventure, learning and "wow that's crazy"
*WARNING, WALL OF TEXT INCOMING*
*Tl;Dr* : Narrative driven, linear, and "actiony" setpieces shouldn't be gatekeeped from Metroid and, if executed well (like in this game), can help flesh out its world in a way the"Metroid Formula" usually can't.
First of all, I understand that this video represents GDTK's own opinions, and respect his statements and accessments of the game. However, I felt like some criticism is warranted.
I feel this critique went a little bit too hard on the more linear, narrative driven, action pumping, moments and setpieces. While yes, Metroid is know for it's isolation and exploration aspects, it shouldn't mean that other aspects more common in other franchises should be gatekeeped from the series if they somehow affect the "Metroid Formula"
This game managed to pulloff a pretty interesting narrative with great worldbuilding and ACTUAL CHARACTERS (for the most part).
Given that Prime 3 is the conclusion to the Phazon Saga, it feels appropriate that the production team aimed for a more narrative driven experience and, imo, managed to keep a nice balance with the exploration aspect.
Therefore, I feel that the way this review mostly paints narrative setpieces as negatives don't really give said setpieces enough credit to how much they made the world of Metroid feel alive and diminish their contributions to the rest of the series with this "don't do it" take on things.
Lastly, the "Want this? Go play Halo!" statement is pretty poor and alienates Metroid as a series from taking inspiration in any other franchise. This contradicts the very nature of game design that is based so much in taking inspiration from previous products and giving a desired aspect a new spin in the context of a new product. That's like saying "want openworld? Go play Skyrim!" in the case of BotW or "want 3d platform gameplay? Go play Banjo!" in the case of Mario 64. It just comes off as a little elitist.
EDIT: formatting.
It is so weird seeing someone complaining about linearity, action and story in Metroid games.
Metroid 2, samus returns, fusion, echoes, corruption, and parts of zero mission are very linear, but non linear inside it's chapters. Even super blocks you from backtracking left and right to force you forward in the first half. That's how Metroid works, it is not a "metroidvania", it is Metroid, the "vania" games like SotN and now Hollow Knight that have a more "open world" approach like in metroid 1, that Metroid seems to intentionaly see as something to not do again because it creates too many situations of people just wandering about without a clear goal or objective, getting boed and frustrated and loosing interest in the game.
Action has always been a big part of metroid too. Way more that Zelda I might add. Of course that is very limited in the 8-bit games, but Super and even more Fusion, you need to learn enemy patters, dodge, time attacks all that stuff. And when Sakamoto went to make a modern Metroid he chose to make it a action game with Team Ninja, as he said, his vision of Metroid was always action focused with aspects of horror/suspense. (not defending MOM here, just bringing the vision of one of it's creators)
As for story/lore, not only has metroid shown aspects of it in many different occasions, it is as, if not more memorable than Metroid's gameplay. M1's samus is a girl reveal, M2 hachling, M3 Ridley and ending, M4 SA-X horror. And the prime trilogy gave us Dark Samus, and finally made the "mightiest bounty hunter of the galaxy" into palpable gameplay, showing us why she is so great, more than just F-Gordon Freeman
What I want of Prime 4? Give me DOOM gameplay, with a map akin to Echoes (clear objectives, but little hand holding) and more of Samus's character
The Halo part was very silly. There is a very clear cut of before Halo and after Halo in the FPS genre, it is such an important and influential game, how could Retro not take inspiration of it? And even then, I don't think it takes anything away from MPrime.
Considering also the environment in which this game came out, alongside Bioshock, Halo 3, Portal 1, Assassin's Creed 1, Uncharted 1, Crysis, Modern Warfare 1 (CoD4)...
I feel that the developing the combat in 3 was a good choice. Scripted elements if over analysed do seem a bit cheap but they had enough narrative weight behind them to make them feel purposeful. It's also the only Metroid game that made me care about the enemies I was fighting.
I'm trying to think of what the title of the other M episode will be
"The BABY design of THE BABY"
"The world design of SAMUS! ACTIVATE THE VARIA FUNCTION OF YOUR SUIT"
This brings back memories! I beat Prime 3 at launch and never returned it, even though I remember actually liking it.
Honestly it sounds like you disliked all 3 games lol
Naw, I'd say he loves to bits parts from all of them, metroid clicking into place the best, but realizes that a number of issues keep the series from reaching truly great heights. Remember that he's analyzing the level design in this series, not reviewing the games in their entirety. There's more that goes in to them than just the level designs.
@@NevetsTSmith i personally think level design in prime 1 and 3 and also hunters in a way beats most 2d games by a lot, even super, it's just a personal preference of his
Having criticisms of something you're a fan of is different from disliking it.
@@Oneiroclast Yes but he didn't said a lot of positive things about the trilogy. Usually he only said good things as segways to talk about flaws in that positive thing.
This is fine BTW, i'm not angry that he criticized the games. I barely have a connection to the Prime series.