Seriously!! My Father was one of the last living surviving POWs of The Bataan Death March in the Philippines. Any war relic he brought back...he earned. My thoughts, POUND FREAKING SAND!!!
@@dakotagist7526 my grandpa was staff sergeant William Ray Butler 6th rangers did alot of time in the Philippines and in the great raid i have a hand woven bamboo mat made in Philippines that says 6th rangers landed and left and says the dates its the only one in the world i know of also have a hand made fighting knife thats engraved with the boat captain name and date that dropped the rangers off in the Philippines also the only one in the world i know of
My Lee Enfield No.4 MkII has “Glenda” carved on the stock behind the trigger guard. Seeing it always makes me imagine the comfort that rifle gave to some homesick Tommy. These are artifacts that have meaning in human terms.
My MTI said something very similar; "In war you either kill or be killed, no matter the branch when you are down range you live and die by whether or not YOU squeeze or pull the damned trigger now. On your face.. Start Pushing." I might be an Airman but I was shot at plenty when I was in Iraq. Do I blame the mortars or AKs? Nope just the guys behind the tube or stock. Same thing in life. I don't blame the cars, trucks, or beer when it come to a DUI fatality I/we as a society blame the driver.. Just my 2 cents.
When I got my DD-214 from Army Service, the first thing I did was buy a Colt 6920 Socom (it says “Colt M4A1 Carbine”) because i wanted to own the very thing that helped keep me safe, and comfortable. My rifle was my best friend and i hated turning it in, so instead of settling for a run-of-the-mill Spikes Tactical or Andersen Manf. receiver, I made damn sure i dropped the extra coin for the same rifle i carried in the middle eastern desert where i lost a part of myself at 19 years old.
I feel the same way about tearing down confederate soldier monuments. They don't stand because we agree with there ideals. They stand to remind us of our past and to not repeat it.
I agree with you entirely and we shouldnt ignore history just because it isn't nice. Just to play devils advocate for a bit though I learned recently that many of those statues were hastily erected as a direct "eff you" during the civil rights movement, even if that is the case I still think that is historically significant and shouldnt be erased.
Black friend of mine said he wished white do-gooders would be as motivated to bring down Black on Black murder rate as they are to bring down statues of old dead Democrats.
The only problem I have with Confederate monuments is that by and large they were constructed in two batches in the 1890s and the 1950s-60s during times when Black people were actively fighting for their rights. They are not just monuments to a conflict that ended 150+ years ago. If they were I'd be find with them. Instead many of them are monuments to ideas of segregation and racial superiority. Many of the monuments have those points laid out right on the plaques attached to them. It's like the Confederate Battle Flag. It regained popularity in the 1890s and 1950s. Also to Dor Aran Black crime has been falling steeply since the mid 1990s when the crack wars started slowing down. It's still too high, but it's just a fraction of what it was 20 years ago.
@@Odin029 exactly right. The statue should have been in a museum if it was about history. they were physical propaganda tools. Imagine if I built a gas chamber and coated it in gold then put it on broad street ?
Some people in this world want to erase history, and don’t want to educate, because it’s easier to control people who are uneducated. Love the video, keep it up.
I own a Japanese Ariska Type 99 with the imperial mark and airplane sights still on it. That alone is rare but even more interesting is that on the bolt side. The stock looks almost entirely charred or blackened. It was likey found and brought back by an American soldier. Its a shame that whoever previously owned it didnt keep it in the family. I sometimes wonder if that blackened side is from a flame thrower or explosion. That'd be terrifying to know I own a rifle possibly held by someone who got turned into a human candle.
Probably a field pickup from late war Pacific campaign, when gi's were burning the Japanese inside their dugouts/pillboxes with flamethrowers rather than risk trying to go in after them and risk getting shot while capturing them.
Being a Veteran, I wish I actually owned the M16 that I had a personal bond with. I knew that baby. As well as a few others. Today, I actually prefer owning weapons that were used in combat. They are not forgotten and will continue to be of service.
I just got my first, (hopefully not my last), M1 Garand. I have waited patiently since the early 90's for this rifle. (wife, children, braces, college) And 86,000 of these beautiful rifles have just been allowed back into our country. I put in my order, waited some more, and I got my rifle 3 weeks ago. It shoots superbly, ooozzes history, (it was made in October of 43), and I LOVE it!!! If it was used in battle, that just adds to the history!!!
Great message gentlemen. You guys pretty much helped me describe why I like the old fire arms I like. It is technology, engineering, and history. And it helps me connect with and under stand other peoples of the world that I normally would not think about.
I own a 1933 mosin Nagant. It killed many Nazis. I am proud to hold in my hand a rifle that was used to defeat the evil Nazis. I imagine the a great sacrifice of the 10 million dead Red Army.
I own a Sino-Banian SKS that has more than likely seen action in the Albanian conflicts. I view it as a piece of history just like I do all other milsurp firearms. Because that's what they are, history. Good or bad / right or wrong, they represent a point in history. Thankfully, there's a substance that resembles ear wax, better known as cosmoline, that has preserved all of these pieces of history for us today. 🤠
We don't have guns..... Without a NICS check, nobody can legally own and possess a firearm.... Which means we don't have 2nd amendment rights, because just to legitimately exercise those rights, the government has to allow you to own a firearm.... Its not a right if you need permission and have to pay fees and training costs before your even allowed to own any firearms related property
Please do some research before you start typing. I dont know about where you live, but in the State of Georgia, as with most states, you can buy a gun from private hands with no background check the same way you would sell a TV or a watch. You arent legally required to, but I recommend getting a bill of sale with the persons DL number just to cover your own butt in the worst case scenario
God bless the founding fathers and their constitution. If it weren't for them we would probably not be allowed to own pepper spray and would all be in prison for "hate speech"
If a given firearm were verified as being involved in a particular event--say the FN Model 1910 used to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand--it would be an outrage to sand it down and Duracoat it. (It would also be financially silly, but who's counting?) On the other end of the spectrum, Mosin Nagants with no provenance were cranked out by the millions. For many of us, if we can afford the gun, it's clear which end it's closer to. If a gun is used in a killing--whether war or crime or suicide--it's a tool. The moral quality of the act is in the person doing it. Having been at a particular incident adds historical interest, but it's up to each person to decide how we feel about that.
My grandfather on my mother's side was at the Battle of Remagen. He has a "battlefield puck up" Walther p38. My grandfather on my father's side had (he left them to me) a p08 Lugar that a Luftwaffe officer surrendered to him as well as his M1911A1 service pistol that he carried in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. All three of these pistols are not just history but for me they also have a personal family connection.
Eric, I agree. My "regular" firearms, (store bought, traded, inherited) are seen as MINE. The milsurps in my collection are indeed in my care for the time being. I am deeply humbled and honored to have them in my safe and am thankful that I have this history in my hands for now. I hope they will one day find their way further into my family for those same reasons but if not, I hope the next person holds them in the same regard as I.
What I really like about these old Milsurps is the fact that they were milled by hands on experience not computers cookie cuts , I wonder how many people on the home front put these together the best they can out of love for their soldiers that were fighting for them and there hope that they were helping their family members, husbands, fathers, and friends to get home, soon and also the skills to make them tough and very hard to break they IMHO better than the most weapons of today...
C&Rsenal has the best in-depth videos as far as old fire arms goes. Love those videos. Also forgotten weapons is great about history of different firearms as well. Love gun Jesus. I found those videos thanks to this channel. Keep up the great work and fighting the good fight.
Thank you for this video! I often get asked this very question about my modest collection. Mostly because my Milsurps at present consist of rifles of countries we have had as adversaries in wars! Very well done!
I have been collecting milsurps for over 20 years now . Some are kept as is , some I restore and a few I have sporterized . The one thing that they all have in common . When I shoot or clean them . I feel a connection of honoring those that carried them before .
I believe in a video I saw involving a collection of Arisaka rifles, I believe it was Ian's from forgotten weapons, he had one with handprints on the rifle where the Japanese soldier was holding it when they died by flamethrower
I see the Type 99 Arisaka my grandfather brought back as a connection to him and to history. You can read and hear the stories, but to hold something connected to a certain person and a certain time and place is special.
Thanks guys, lots of great points about the tech, military and personal histories of these firearms. They relate to the lessons and needs of our cultures. They are tools, yes, but also touchstones of memory.
All SJWs always blame the tool, they never blame the user. As to history it should never be forgotten. It should be remembered as where we have been not as the future.
Actually, when a gun is used by a bad person, to do bad things, SJW's blame the guns that weren't used, and the good people who didn't use them for evil. Progressivism is by definition immoral, racist, and opposed to civilization.
I just received my 1st M1 from CMP a cpl of weeks ago. The Springfield Armory receiver was built in Jan. 1944, but the wood appears new, stock made Nov. 7. 2014. This awesome rifle will always have a special place in my safe and my heart. My uncle went ashore on D-Day at Normandy, he carried his all the way to Germany. Thanks seems so little...
Without sounding like too much of a fanboy both of you are responsible or partly responsible for my love of military surplus I am subscribed to both channels have been for a very long time and through your channels my love of military surplus rifles and knowledge has grown. And to consider ourselves custodians of these firearms for the future I think is spot-on. Someday I will be gone and the military surplus rifles that I own hopefully we'll go to my son's or just someone who loves them and will pass them on for future Generations. I have an Argentine Mauser that shoots as well as any modern rifle that I have taken out to 300 yards at the rifle range against the guys with modern rifles and kept the same grouping. They're just all-around awesome pieces of equipment that were made in a time frame when craftsmanship really mattered. Laborers and people took pride in what they did. And a lot of that is different now
What a frivolous thing to worry about; whether a military gun was used to kill someone! What difference does it make? Do you worry if the iron in your food was once part of a knife that was used by an assassin, or if the stones in your house foundation might have been thrown at someone thousands of years ago? Guns are just inanimate matter, they don't warrant so much fear and superstition.
I think most mil surps on the market most probably have not actually taken life, I think the actual rifles used in major battles became battlefield losses or later got collected up and rearsenaled into oblivion several times over. For historic firearms, especially the military rifles we still have today, I think it's a matter of "where could this rifle have been?" It's of course rare, or usually impossible, to actually pinpoint an exact battle, offensive, or action an individual rifle was in, and it's even more rare to even know exactly who it was issued to. We know clues and details based on serial numbers, markings, and other things that could point us in a direction and allow us to theorize what happened or where it went, but for most of us, we'll never have that information on our mil surps. Some mil surps exist with provenance, with actual letters and documentation, pinpointing the who, where, and when, usually from veterans who brought back captured weapons or their own service weapons. Some of them are pretty crazy, like Ian's Arisaka that is scorched because the Japanese soldier carrying it got legit burned down by a Marine with a flamethrower. In that case, it's not about the rifle taking lives, but the choice of owning a rifle that came from such circumstances. Regardless, I think the people who actually complain about us collecting mil surps on the off chance they *might* have taken life is already someone who doesn't like private gun ownership to begin with, and has no appreciation for historic items and artifacts. I don't understand why respecting and appreciating history is even a controversy, these old rifles were involved in human events in our history that shaped the world we live in. I take care of, maintain, and shoot all my mil surps, and there's something truly awesome about historic weapons of war being used exclusively now for peaceful/recreational purposes. It's a functional piece of history that was built for conflict, and serves as a reminder of the past, and I especially love shooting the Russian spam can surplus ammo for my Mosins. This was ammo produced for a possible war with us, made to bolster Russia's combat readiness to fight us, and now it's being used for recreation in America by an American. The historical weight and importance of these rifles will always outweigh any real or professed offense anyone will take to it. This is how we remember and appreciate history, I won't ever apologize for it.
My dad hates that I have an Arisaka but the Mosin Nagant and M1 Garand don't bother him at all. For him it seems to be based on which side the gun served on. The reality is that knowing the history of a specific milsurp gun is very rare. It may have never been on the front lines.
Gun history is world history...both political...mechanical and on a personel level. Hence I watching C&Arsenal for an hour on the Type 38 was just what I was looking for.
I think that projecting morality onto an inanimate object is a mental illness. You can appreciate engineering, beautiful wood, the lines, the history, a number of other factors dealing with firearms. You can even appreciate the designer. How it may have been used either good or bad is a historical look at people not a gun. Again an inanimate object. But to confer a special right because it may have been carried in a battle or it may have been used oppress people is projection. (See first sentence)
Even looking into the historical people who ordered its creation doesn't make it immoral imo. So ok, Hitler or Stalin ordered the creation of some weapon, that doesn't make the weapon any more evil, or what ever else they want to call it. I really wish these twits would come up with something better to do with their time, instead of trying to twist and distort history.
It’s an inanimate object, this is the problem most of the anti gun crowd has after a mass shooting, they want to blame the weapon used and not the user.
Great video. I use a canteen cup from ww2. And love it just for the history of it just like I love my mosin and old Alice pack. The idea that I'm using something with a history makes me happy that it's still in use
Ive got a 1944 No.5 Mk1 jungle at home here in Australia. Taking what the rifle is out of the equation, I often think about who was the soldier or soldiers who carried that rifle? What kind of journey has it been on. That to me is interesting. Compound that with the fact that its an absolute blast to take out and shoot and its the best interest ever. Its living breathing history you can own.
After my grandfather passed away, I as the eldest son of my family inherited the Mosin Nagant rifle my grandfather got from the winter war, it has tally marks on the stock which tells how many soviets he killed with it, it's really well kept and looks really good on top of the fireplace but I still shoot from time to time just for nostalgia's sake
You horrible excuse for human beings! Why would you want a Firearm that has killed someone in War!? Shame on you! Do the right thing and give them to me and I will dispose of them properly. Let me know when and where to pick them up. The quicker the better 👍😂😂
6 років тому+19
nice sarcasm. you would dispose of them into your private collection, just like me.
If anyone ever got offended for owning a certain gun, just walk away! Everyone is super sensitive these day I just happen to believe that individual is so bored or are just trying to get a rise out people.
Great concepts guys! Mil surplus are “living” monuments to those who SERVED for their countries and maybe lost their lives defending them. As Eric pointed out, these pieces of history should be taken care of as a constant remembrance to the persons who used them, no matter of their nationalities. I have a personal bond with a handgun that my dad carried during the last months of WWII. What else can I add to this? (Keep up the great job you are doing!!)
I believe in the future we will have more rights open and available at our disposal, despite the current disposition at hand. My hope is that people will not worry so much about the now, but on the journey of the goals we set our eyes upon as free men. We will push for the Safe Hearing Protect Act again and prevail, so forth down the list. Certain things and people must be taken from power quietly according to the plan at hand, the unveiling is near. These are exciting times friends, WWG1WGA, we are Q
Arguably guns have been used in almost every major historical event, and these firearms are the closest we may travel back in time to this technology and history. We should not forget history, we should experience and learn from it.
Can you do more gun smithing videos? I love watching you take a gun that has not been shot in 100 years and breathe new life into it. I also enjoyed the metal work in your sporterized mosin series.
The history is what makes milsurps fascinating and collectable. A gun that was used in a war is worth more than a gun that sat in a storage facility its whole life.
You really should do an interview with Cody Wilson of Defense Distributed. Hes doing a lot to fight for the 2nd amendment, it'd be a great show if you had him on.
You make a valid point about the suffering of others so then we should never have money in this country because that brings suffering to others that don’t have money from the people that do have money. Suffering from others that is a stupid argument because you can throw that argument around with everything in this world because we all suffer one way or another
I really wanted him to give a little high light on that M44, it looks like it has been through hell. I have a Russian m44 that was never refurbed, and it looks like it was drug behind a truck down a gravel driveway and someone decided to use it as a hammer. Chunks of stock missing, zero bluing, but oddly shoots decent and the bore is in okay shape and the bolt is easily the smoothest working mosin bolt I own. I like to think whoever drug that rifle through the tail ends of conflict survived and the gun shows me his untold story.
As a 2nd Amendment loving liberal, I fully agree with this video. Especially being ex-Army, I have a deep appreciation for historic firearms, their design, and their history. That's partly why I enjoy watching this channel.
Even if someone's having fun with a rifle used in conflict, Big deal. Guns are fun to shoot. History is cool. I love surplus man. It's not going away any time soon. Super cool video. Really interesting and intriguing topic, very healthy conversation here.
I'm late to this vid, but I've got a Walther P38 from 1943 in a drawer behind me, along with a pre-war Browning Hi-power both sitting next to the 45 that my grandfather carried in WW2 when he... procured the guns. I've had them both out and fired them many times. I've never once thought about the morality of it. Everybody on those battlefields was risking their lives the victors and the vanquished. The guns are neutral really.
The most important aspect of historical firearms preservation IMO, is as a marker, for both the general era, and the individual conflict. An Arisaka in 300 years time, will still remind those that hold it, of Japan's story up to, through, and after WWII. Why each part was designed the shape it was, the craftsmanship at the start of production and deterioration towards the close of hostilities. And most personally... the marks in its stock of the events that rifle and soldier, endured as he followed his orders, fought for his buddies and his country. Scars remind us that the past was real. Let us not become, as Othais alluded... forgetful of the value of peace, by ignoring the lessons of war. Preserving the artifacts of warfare -- esp rifles and sidearms issued to individuals for the two-way range... is imperative to remembering those lessons -- because you can hold it, touch it. It, and by extension its story... becomes real.
"THE GUN HAS PLAYED A CRITICAL ROLE IN HISTORY. AN INVENTION WHICH HAS BEEN PRAISED AND DENOUNCED...SERVED HERO AND VILLAIN ALIKE...AND CARRIES WITH IT MORAL RESPONSIBILITY. TO UNDERSTAND THE GUN IS TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HISTORY" History Channel's Tales of the Gun intro.
In all firearms..... history, science, engineering, manufacturing, machining, mathematics (basic to complex), geometry, art, designing, metallurgy, woodworking, economics, ...and more.
I got a 1903 produced in 1906 first 150k’ish. You Know that thing has bodies on it. Matter fact it got re-barreled so it probably put mad bullets down range.
Remember winners write history and the tools that are used to win need respect and those tools should be shown, used and kept in the public eye . If not history will repeat itself .
That gripe is just an expression of magical thinking. There is no aura, curse, or hallowedness associate to objects, except by our own choice. At any rate I will be going for a K31, and dare anybody to find that objectable.
A few things. One of my favorite quotes is "those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it." It's a sad fact that history is determined by conflict. Now we are seeing students rising up to overthrow our system of government. Don't forget the bolslevik revolution that overthrew the Russian czar and brought about decades of Communism. Today we are seeing a similar conflict beginning on our college campuses. Also, as you mention, the beginning of WW1. People who denounce you for owning these guns forget human conflict dates back to Cain and Able. We need to remember history and learn from it. If knowing these weapons can help bring perspective I'm all for it. One more thing, I really like to see the cross over between channels. You set a great example of cooperation that we all need to see.
Dana I am also 66 years old I was born June 1952. I grew up protesting Viet Nam and even worked on the McGovern campaign. As time has gone on I watched far left radicals grow government to a size that's unmanageable. I watched cities and states take away peoples rights and chip away at the Constitution. I've watched the growth of the cesspools like New York, Chicago and LA. I also am a firearm owner and I load my own ammo. I don't always agree with Trump, but considering the alternative he's much better. Actually gun control was started before the Civil War by southern democrat slave owners who disarmed the slaves. I also support the whole constitution, it's the liberals who want to cherry pick the parts they don't like, like the 2nd amendment. That was the beginning, now they're going after the first. I will say this, I appreciate we can disagree and still respect each others opinion and not resort to violence.
I really think preserving these guns is much like preserving the battle fields or war cemeteries. It is honoring the sacrifice of those who used them and those who were on the receiving end. Even if they were on what we think was the other side, they were all just a soldier doing what there country asked. We owe all of the soldiers regardless of side remembrance so hopefully we never fall into that type of conflict again.
I have a nugget that has so many different national marks on it, the reds, the whites, the fins this gun was passed around and captured back and forth like fiend, meaning it fought, meaning there are bodies on it. It has historical weight, it centers you in what those soldiers must have felt when you feel it, when you shoot it. I have a Type 99 that has burned handprint outlines it in, from where my friends grandpa pried it from the charred hands of a Japanese soldier that was trying to kill him with it. he earned it, he cared for the gun, he gave it to my friend, when my friend passed he gave it to me.
The only thing I would add is just because the weapon of the "bad guys" doesn't mean necessarily that it was a bad guy that was using it. Even in a country filled with people doing horrible things, there are still ultimately good people that get wrapped up in it's war. That firearm you hold may just be the one they were holding, but even if it's not, it's still part of their story by being similar to what such people held.
Well said guys. I feel the same way. I have a Spanish 1916 mauser with bayonet damage in the stock from offensive use, it's definitely been used to kill people, but it showed me the horrors of the Spanish civil war, how it was basically a proto-ww2 with the politics being deathly familiar, in a way, to the division in this great land today. So I reverence all who have fought for their lives, their lands, and their families with a greater understanding and appreciation because of one humble, soulless companion that may well save or take lives in the future, I pray in my care it's the former.
I owned a car that an elderly lady had committed suicide in. It really freaked some people out. At first, I thought “it’s just a machine- a tool” and didn’t think anything about it. The more I drove the car, the more I thought about that poor lady, even though I never met her. I put 100k miles on that car in 3 years and she served me well- like she was taking care of me. I gave her the name “Beatrice”. I tell the history of the car to people and it keeps the memory of that lady alive. Earlier this year I found someone who appreciated the unique history of the car and Beatrice has a new home and her memory lives on. I also have a beat to hell, 1943 Mosin 91/30 named “Ivan”... but that’s a story for another time.
Pre 1942, most soldiers that died during conflict didn't die in battle from injuries of any type. Most soldiers died of infection, as, until the introduction of penicillin, many otherwise survivable wounds would lead to sepsis, which had a pretty high probability of death...
I have a No4 Lee Enfield which has "'My heart" and "Treat her well" scratched into the magazine. When I handle this rifle I wonder what it and its owner may have gone through and I think about how hard it must have been for that soldier to turn this piece in upon discharge. The desperation, fear, anger and exhaustion of their owners have soaked into the wood of these weapons and I try to feel that or at least appreciate it when I hold these guns.
I have a Chinese Type 53 Mosin that has a character that means "remember" etched into the stock in two places. It looks like it was dragged through Hell, and boy do I wish it could talk.
Seriously!! My Father was one of the last living surviving POWs of The Bataan Death March in the Philippines. Any war relic he brought back...he earned. My thoughts, POUND FREAKING SAND!!!
AP2020 Outdoors Adventures my ex stepdad stepfather is still alive and a bataan survivor.
Thank you to your dad for his service. I had a neighbor that survived the death march.
Thanks so much AP2020 my wifes dad was airborne WWII and Korea...my dad Korea......
@@dakotagist7526 my grandpa was staff sergeant William Ray Butler 6th rangers did alot of time in the Philippines and in the great raid i have a hand woven bamboo mat made in Philippines that says 6th rangers landed and left and says the dates its the only one in the world i know of also have a hand made fighting knife thats engraved with the boat captain name and date that dropped the rangers off in the Philippines also the only one in the world i know of
@@nathanbutler8240 what was the name of the boat . my dad served on the use Logan?
My Lee Enfield No.4 MkII has “Glenda” carved on the stock behind the trigger guard. Seeing it always makes me imagine the comfort that rifle gave to some homesick Tommy. These are artifacts that have meaning in human terms.
Could have just been what the owner named his rifle. Not all my guns have names, but my Steyr is Anastasia, and my SKS is Olga xD
As my Drill Instructor used to say, " It's not the gun that kills, it's the stone cold heart of the man that pulls the trigger".
My MTI said something very similar; "In war you either kill or be killed, no matter the branch when you are down range you live and die by whether or not YOU squeeze or pull the damned trigger now. On your face.. Start Pushing." I might be an Airman but I was shot at plenty when I was in Iraq. Do I blame the mortars or AKs? Nope just the guys behind the tube or stock. Same thing in life. I don't blame the cars, trucks, or beer when it come to a DUI fatality I/we as a society blame the driver.. Just my 2 cents.
When I got my DD-214 from Army Service, the first thing I did was buy a Colt 6920 Socom (it says “Colt M4A1 Carbine”) because i wanted to own the very thing that helped keep me safe, and comfortable. My rifle was my best friend and i hated turning it in, so instead of settling for a run-of-the-mill Spikes Tactical or Andersen Manf. receiver, I made damn sure i dropped the extra coin for the same rifle i carried in the middle eastern desert where i lost a part of myself at 19 years old.
I feel the same way about tearing down confederate soldier monuments. They don't stand because we agree with there ideals. They stand to remind us of our past and to not repeat it.
I agree with you entirely and we shouldnt ignore history just because it isn't nice.
Just to play devils advocate for a bit though I learned recently that many of those statues were hastily erected as a direct "eff you" during the civil rights movement, even if that is the case I still think that is historically significant and shouldnt be erased.
True some were Albert......... but the HUGE majority were erected well over 100 years ago
Black friend of mine said he wished white do-gooders would be as motivated to bring down Black on Black murder rate as they are to bring down statues of old dead Democrats.
The only problem I have with Confederate monuments is that by and large they were constructed in two batches in the 1890s and the 1950s-60s during times when Black people were actively fighting for their rights. They are not just monuments to a conflict that ended 150+ years ago. If they were I'd be find with them. Instead many of them are monuments to ideas of segregation and racial superiority. Many of the monuments have those points laid out right on the plaques attached to them. It's like the Confederate Battle Flag. It regained popularity in the 1890s and 1950s.
Also to Dor Aran Black crime has been falling steeply since the mid 1990s when the crack wars started slowing down. It's still too high, but it's just a fraction of what it was 20 years ago.
@@Odin029 exactly right. The statue should have been in a museum if it was about history. they were physical propaganda tools. Imagine if I built a gas chamber and coated it in gold then put it on broad street ?
Some people in this world want to erase history, and don’t want to educate, because it’s easier to control people who are uneducated. Love the video, keep it up.
@ Lol. Sure bub
al which sentence do you disagree with and why?
@ From my experiences (not biased "studies"), education opportunities are generally best in Republican controlled counties.
@ Traveling to different campuses. Attending different schools.
@ Your guess is wrong. You do quite a lot of talking but don't really say much
I own a Japanese Ariska Type 99 with the imperial mark and airplane sights still on it. That alone is rare but even more interesting is that on the bolt side. The stock looks almost entirely charred or blackened. It was likey found and brought back by an American soldier. Its a shame that whoever previously owned it didnt keep it in the family. I sometimes wonder if that blackened side is from a flame thrower or explosion. That'd be terrifying to know I own a rifle possibly held by someone who got turned into a human candle.
Probably a field pickup from late war Pacific campaign, when gi's were burning the Japanese inside their dugouts/pillboxes with flamethrowers rather than risk trying to go in after them and risk getting shot while capturing them.
Damn, Japanese soldiers would of scrapped off that mum if they thought they would of died. That means whoever had it thought he would get out alive
Being a Veteran, I wish I actually owned the M16 that I had a personal bond with. I knew that baby. As well as a few others. Today, I actually prefer owning weapons that were used in combat. They are not forgotten and will continue to be of service.
I just got my first, (hopefully not my last), M1 Garand. I have waited patiently since the early 90's for this rifle. (wife, children, braces, college) And 86,000 of these beautiful rifles have just been allowed back into our country. I put in my order, waited some more, and I got my rifle 3 weeks ago. It shoots superbly, ooozzes history, (it was made in October of 43), and I LOVE it!!! If it was used in battle, that just adds to the history!!!
Cain killed Able with a rock. Is a rock garden a vulgar display of deadly weapons?
Tracy Curtright not if there are gnomes.
1. It's Abel. 2. That's from a fairy tale, not real life. 3. Let's stick to firearms, yeah?
Perhaps the story is a fairly tale but I doubt you can deny that people have been killed with a rock
I personally prefer the jawbone of an ass, that killed 3,000 Phillistines.
@@doraran5158 same
Great message gentlemen. You guys pretty much helped me describe why I like the old fire arms I like. It is technology, engineering, and history. And it helps me connect with and under stand other peoples of the world that I normally would not think about.
"THAT GUN HAS TAKEN LIVES!!"
"Really?? I think it's more interesting now because of it's history and journey to where it is now"
"reeeeeEEEEEEEEEE"
I own a 1933 mosin Nagant. It killed many Nazis. I am proud to hold in my hand a rifle that was used to defeat the evil Nazis. I imagine the a great sacrifice of the 10 million dead Red Army.
I own a Sino-Banian SKS that has more than likely seen action in the Albanian conflicts. I view it as a piece of history just like I do all other milsurp firearms. Because that's what they are, history. Good or bad / right or wrong, they represent a point in history. Thankfully, there's a substance that resembles ear wax, better known as cosmoline, that has preserved all of these pieces of history for us today. 🤠
They just don't want you to have guns.
We don't have guns..... Without a NICS check, nobody can legally own and possess a firearm.... Which means we don't have 2nd amendment rights, because just to legitimately exercise those rights, the government has to allow you to own a firearm.... Its not a right if you need permission and have to pay fees and training costs before your even allowed to own any firearms related property
@@mathewashley06 that's not entirely accurate
Please do some research before you start typing. I dont know about where you live, but in the State of Georgia, as with most states, you can buy a gun from private hands with no background check the same way you would sell a TV or a watch. You arent legally required to, but I recommend getting a bill of sale with the persons DL number just to cover your own butt in the worst case scenario
God bless the founding fathers and their constitution. If it weren't for them we would probably not be allowed to own pepper spray and would all be in prison for "hate speech"
If a given firearm were verified as being involved in a particular event--say the FN Model 1910 used to assassinate Archduke Franz Ferdinand--it would be an outrage to sand it down and Duracoat it. (It would also be financially silly, but who's counting?) On the other end of the spectrum, Mosin Nagants with no provenance were cranked out by the millions. For many of us, if we can afford the gun, it's clear which end it's closer to.
If a gun is used in a killing--whether war or crime or suicide--it's a tool. The moral quality of the act is in the person doing it. Having been at a particular incident adds historical interest, but it's up to each person to decide how we feel about that.
My grandfather on my mother's side was at the Battle of Remagen. He has a "battlefield puck up" Walther p38. My grandfather on my father's side had (he left them to me) a p08 Lugar that a Luftwaffe officer surrendered to him as well as his M1911A1 service pistol that he carried in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. All three of these pistols are not just history but for me they also have a personal family connection.
Jesus, I thought Eric was big next to Chad... now othias rolls in like a beast..
C@Rsenal is without a doubt the best you tube channel for historical information on weapons of war.
I love the creativity y’all cultivated with your Gun Gripe series. It is such a creative and heart felt segment of your channel.
Eric, I agree. My "regular" firearms, (store bought, traded, inherited) are seen as MINE. The milsurps in my collection are indeed in my care for the time being. I am deeply humbled and honored to have them in my safe and am thankful that I have this history in my hands for now. I hope they will one day find their way further into my family for those same reasons but if not, I hope the next person holds them in the same regard as I.
What I really like about these old Milsurps is the fact that they were milled by hands on experience not computers cookie cuts , I wonder how many people on the home front put these together the best they can out of love for their soldiers that were fighting for them and there hope that they were helping their family members, husbands, fathers, and friends to get home, soon and also the skills to make them tough and very hard to break they IMHO better than the most weapons of today...
I didn’t even realize this was an issue! It’s preserving history ,while having fun and remaining humble.
C&Rsenal has the best in-depth videos as far as old fire arms goes. Love those videos. Also forgotten weapons is great about history of different firearms as well. Love gun Jesus. I found those videos thanks to this channel. Keep up the great work and fighting the good fight.
One thing this world is seriously lacking in is the ability/desire to respect someone elses opinion
Thank you for this video! I often get asked this very question about my modest collection. Mostly because my Milsurps at present consist of rifles of countries we have had as adversaries in wars! Very well done!
I have been collecting milsurps for over 20 years now . Some are kept as is , some I restore and a few I have sporterized . The one thing that they all have in common . When I shoot or clean them . I feel a connection of honoring those that carried them before .
So this is how liberty dies folks. By a thousand little cuts while the SJW gives thunderous applause...
mil-surp guns are works of ART, they are not toys. owning them honors the past. they can take my collection from my cold dead hands.
Now you own history. People like historic cars, People like history houses, people like history.
Eric you do a great job of helping other yt gun people. I think it is awesome, to see you having guest on your videos.
I believe in a video I saw involving a collection of Arisaka rifles, I believe it was Ian's from forgotten weapons, he had one with handprints on the rifle where the Japanese soldier was holding it when they died by flamethrower
I see the Type 99 Arisaka my grandfather brought back as a connection to him and to history. You can read and hear the stories, but to hold something connected to a certain person and a certain time and place is special.
Thanks guys, lots of great points about the tech, military and personal histories of these firearms. They relate to the lessons and needs of our cultures. They are tools, yes, but also touchstones of memory.
Best "gun gripes" so far!!! Thank you for defending the study of history in a unique way.
All SJWs always blame the tool, they never blame the user. As to history it should never be forgotten. It should be remembered as where we have been not as the future.
We'll said
You know,,, what is an "SJW"? I really do not know.
Actually, when a gun is used by a bad person, to do bad things, SJW's blame the guns that weren't used, and the good people who didn't use them for evil. Progressivism is by definition immoral, racist, and opposed to civilization.
karl28560 social justice warrior
I just received my 1st M1 from CMP a cpl of weeks ago. The Springfield Armory receiver was built in Jan. 1944, but the wood appears new, stock made Nov. 7. 2014. This awesome rifle will always have a special place in my safe and my heart. My uncle went ashore on D-Day at Normandy, he carried his all the way to Germany. Thanks seems so little...
Great to see so much C&Rsenal crossover content lately! Those guys produce womderful content. Good video. Bring May sometime!
My c96 has a dented mag plate from when it was used to punch clocks. Makes it more authentic.
Without sounding like too much of a fanboy both of you are responsible or partly responsible for my love of military surplus I am subscribed to both channels have been for a very long time and through your channels my love of military surplus rifles and knowledge has grown. And to consider ourselves custodians of these firearms for the future I think is spot-on. Someday I will be gone and the military surplus rifles that I own hopefully we'll go to my son's or just someone who loves them and will pass them on for future Generations. I have an Argentine Mauser that shoots as well as any modern rifle that I have taken out to 300 yards at the rifle range against the guys with modern rifles and kept the same grouping. They're just all-around awesome pieces of equipment that were made in a time frame when craftsmanship really mattered. Laborers and people took pride in what they did. And a lot of that is different now
Glad you are enjoying the work!
What a frivolous thing to worry about; whether a military gun was used to kill someone! What difference does it make? Do you worry if the iron in your food was once part of a knife that was used by an assassin, or if the stones in your house foundation might have been thrown at someone thousands of years ago?
Guns are just inanimate matter, they don't warrant so much fear and superstition.
Everyone should accept your materialist presuppositions for what reason?
I remember back in the day watching the History of the Gun on the History Channel. Such a good show . Now we have Pawn Stars ..
I think most mil surps on the market most probably have not actually taken life, I think the actual rifles used in major battles became battlefield losses or later got collected up and rearsenaled into oblivion several times over. For historic firearms, especially the military rifles we still have today, I think it's a matter of "where could this rifle have been?" It's of course rare, or usually impossible, to actually pinpoint an exact battle, offensive, or action an individual rifle was in, and it's even more rare to even know exactly who it was issued to. We know clues and details based on serial numbers, markings, and other things that could point us in a direction and allow us to theorize what happened or where it went, but for most of us, we'll never have that information on our mil surps. Some mil surps exist with provenance, with actual letters and documentation, pinpointing the who, where, and when, usually from veterans who brought back captured weapons or their own service weapons. Some of them are pretty crazy, like Ian's Arisaka that is scorched because the Japanese soldier carrying it got legit burned down by a Marine with a flamethrower. In that case, it's not about the rifle taking lives, but the choice of owning a rifle that came from such circumstances.
Regardless, I think the people who actually complain about us collecting mil surps on the off chance they *might* have taken life is already someone who doesn't like private gun ownership to begin with, and has no appreciation for historic items and artifacts. I don't understand why respecting and appreciating history is even a controversy, these old rifles were involved in human events in our history that shaped the world we live in.
I take care of, maintain, and shoot all my mil surps, and there's something truly awesome about historic weapons of war being used exclusively now for peaceful/recreational purposes. It's a functional piece of history that was built for conflict, and serves as a reminder of the past, and I especially love shooting the Russian spam can surplus ammo for my Mosins. This was ammo produced for a possible war with us, made to bolster Russia's combat readiness to fight us, and now it's being used for recreation in America by an American.
The historical weight and importance of these rifles will always outweigh any real or professed offense anyone will take to it. This is how we remember and appreciate history, I won't ever apologize for it.
I can tell you two can talk about mil-surps all day. I love it
Needs to be a regular. Always come out learning something.
My dad hates that I have an Arisaka but the Mosin Nagant and M1 Garand don't bother him at all. For him it seems to be based on which side the gun served on. The reality is that knowing the history of a specific milsurp gun is very rare. It may have never been on the front lines.
Gun history is world history...both political...mechanical and on a personel level. Hence I watching C&Arsenal for an hour on the Type 38 was just what I was looking for.
I think that projecting morality onto an inanimate object is a mental illness. You can appreciate engineering, beautiful wood, the lines, the history, a number of other factors dealing with firearms. You can even appreciate the designer. How it may have been used either good or bad is a historical look at people not a gun. Again an inanimate object. But to confer a special right because it may have been carried in a battle or it may have been used oppress people is projection. (See first sentence)
Even looking into the historical people who ordered its creation doesn't make it immoral imo. So ok, Hitler or Stalin ordered the creation of some weapon, that doesn't make the weapon any more evil, or what ever else they want to call it.
I really wish these twits would come up with something better to do with their time, instead of trying to twist and distort history.
Hamm 603 l
It’s an inanimate object, this is the problem most of the anti gun crowd has after a mass shooting, they want to blame the weapon used and not the user.
“My name is Indy Neidell and welcome to The Great...”
Oops wrong channel!
Damn, what you been feeding Chad?
Angelo Stocking up on blueberries as we speak. I’m gonna look great with that beard.
War is terrible but the relics you get from wars can be interesting.
Great video. I use a canteen cup from ww2. And love it just for the history of it just like I love my mosin and old Alice pack. The idea that I'm using something with a history makes me happy that it's still in use
0:00 - 0:10 the dude on rights EYES THO LOL
Ive got a 1944 No.5 Mk1 jungle at home here in Australia.
Taking what the rifle is out of the equation, I often think about who was the soldier or soldiers who carried that rifle? What kind of journey has it been on. That to me is interesting.
Compound that with the fact that its an absolute blast to take out and shoot and its the best interest ever. Its living breathing history you can own.
After my grandfather passed away, I as the eldest son of my family inherited the Mosin Nagant rifle my grandfather got from the winter war, it has tally marks on the stock which tells how many soviets he killed with it, it's really well kept and looks really good on top of the fireplace but I still shoot from time to time just for nostalgia's sake
Faux outrage is jealousy. I like your informational videos Eric.
You know what I feel when I shoot an old milsurp rifle? Some recoil, and then a smile on my face from shooting a piece of history.
You horrible excuse for human beings! Why would you want a Firearm that has killed someone in War!? Shame on you! Do the right thing and give them to me and I will dispose of them properly. Let me know when and where to pick them up. The quicker the better 👍😂😂
nice sarcasm. you would dispose of them into your private collection, just like me.
Dana Herron damn right!
Gun safe is a really weird spelling of landfill.
If anyone ever got offended for owning a certain gun, just walk away! Everyone is super sensitive these day I just happen to believe that individual is so bored or are just trying to get a rise out people.
A true humanitarian
Great concepts guys!
Mil surplus are “living” monuments to those who SERVED for their countries and maybe lost their lives defending them. As Eric pointed out, these pieces of history should be taken care of as a constant remembrance to the persons who used them, no matter of their nationalities. I have a personal bond with a handgun that my dad carried during the last months of WWII. What else can I add to this? (Keep up the great job you are doing!!)
I believe in the future we will have more rights open and available at our disposal, despite the current disposition at hand. My hope is that people will not worry so much about the now, but on the journey of the goals we set our eyes upon as free men. We will push for the Safe Hearing Protect Act again and prevail, so forth down the list. Certain things and people must be taken from power quietly according to the plan at hand, the unveiling is near. These are exciting times friends, WWG1WGA, we are Q
Arguably guns have been used in almost every major historical event, and these firearms are the closest we may travel back in time to this technology and history. We should not forget history, we should experience and learn from it.
Can you do more gun smithing videos? I love watching you take a gun that has not been shot in 100 years and breathe new life into it. I also enjoyed the metal work in your sporterized mosin series.
You should come over to our place and watch Mark work!
Great video. Part of the fun of firearms specifically milsurps is the history. Thanks
The history is what makes milsurps fascinating and collectable. A gun that was used in a war is worth more than a gun that sat in a storage facility its whole life.
when is the kammerlader video coming out???!! Just saw the Anvil episode where Mark fixed up Erics Kammerlader! Keep up the awesome work yall
Fascinating subject, for me you're best "Gun Gripe" episode.
You really should do an interview with Cody Wilson of Defense Distributed. Hes doing a lot to fight for the 2nd amendment, it'd be a great show if you had him on.
You make a valid point about the suffering of others so then we should never have money in this country because that brings suffering to others that don’t have money from the people that do have money. Suffering from others that is a stupid argument because you can throw that argument around with everything in this world because we all suffer one way or another
All good points, Eric and Othias.
Crozier for President
Hey Eric. Is the rifle on the all just below the baseball bat and the M16A2 the one that Mark just fixed for you? That was a amazing episode of Anvil.
You two are such lookalikes that from now on I'll call you: "Brothers in Arms"!
I really wanted him to give a little high light on that M44, it looks like it has been through hell. I have a Russian m44 that was never refurbed, and it looks like it was drug behind a truck down a gravel driveway and someone decided to use it as a hammer. Chunks of stock missing, zero bluing, but oddly shoots decent and the bore is in okay shape and the bolt is easily the smoothest working mosin bolt I own. I like to think whoever drug that rifle through the tail ends of conflict survived and the gun shows me his untold story.
Probably a Chinese version which are known for being pretty rough, but that's just a whole other angle of "wonder where its been"!
Yes, just in time while I'm @ work goofing off!
👍😎🤘
The thing that did the most to ensure precision was the gauge block. It assured that dimensions would be repeatable.
I really like C&Rsenal videos. Ohio’s & Mae get down to the nitty gritty on these weapons.
As a 2nd Amendment loving liberal, I fully agree with this video. Especially being ex-Army, I have a deep appreciation for historic firearms, their design, and their history. That's partly why I enjoy watching this channel.
Even if someone's having fun with a rifle used in conflict,
Big deal.
Guns are fun to shoot. History is cool. I love surplus man. It's not going away any time soon.
Super cool video. Really interesting and intriguing topic, very healthy conversation here.
I'm late to this vid, but I've got a Walther P38 from 1943 in a drawer behind me, along with a pre-war Browning Hi-power both sitting next to the 45 that my grandfather carried in WW2 when he... procured the guns. I've had them both out and fired them many times. I've never once thought about the morality of it. Everybody on those battlefields was risking their lives the victors and the vanquished. The guns are neutral really.
The most important aspect of historical firearms preservation IMO, is as a marker, for both the general era, and the individual conflict.
An Arisaka in 300 years time, will still remind those that hold it, of Japan's story up to, through, and after WWII. Why each part was designed the shape it was, the craftsmanship at the start of production and deterioration towards the close of hostilities. And most personally... the marks in its stock of the events that rifle and soldier, endured as he followed his orders, fought for his buddies and his country.
Scars remind us that the past was real. Let us not become, as Othais alluded... forgetful of the value of peace, by ignoring the lessons of war. Preserving the artifacts of warfare -- esp rifles and sidearms issued to individuals for the two-way range... is imperative to remembering those lessons -- because you can hold it, touch it. It, and by extension its story... becomes real.
You two could be brothers seriously! lol :) Great video and informative as always!
"THE GUN HAS PLAYED A CRITICAL ROLE IN HISTORY.
AN INVENTION WHICH HAS BEEN PRAISED AND DENOUNCED...SERVED HERO AND VILLAIN ALIKE...AND CARRIES WITH IT MORAL RESPONSIBILITY.
TO UNDERSTAND THE GUN IS TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HISTORY"
History Channel's Tales of the Gun intro.
Nostalgia incarnate.
Great episode! Your points are excellent.
I'm an old Vietnam vet and I would appreciate it if someone had my m14 and thought, I wonder who had this rifle and was it used in Vietnam.
Did you like your M14?
All the Hi-Points I buy from trunks with scraped serial numbers are guilt free.
Charlie Walter 😂
In all firearms..... history, science, engineering, manufacturing, machining, mathematics (basic to complex), geometry, art, designing, metallurgy, woodworking, economics, ...and more.
I got a 1903 produced in 1906 first 150k’ish. You Know that thing has bodies on it. Matter fact it got re-barreled so it probably put mad bullets down range.
Remember winners write history and the tools that are used to win need respect and those tools should be shown, used and kept in the public eye . If not history will repeat itself .
That gripe is just an expression of magical thinking. There is no aura, curse, or hallowedness associate to objects, except by our own choice. At any rate I will be going for a K31, and dare anybody to find that objectable.
A few things. One of my favorite quotes is "those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it." It's a sad fact that history is determined by conflict. Now we are seeing students rising up to overthrow our system of government. Don't forget the bolslevik revolution that overthrew the Russian czar and brought about decades of Communism. Today we are seeing a similar conflict beginning on our college campuses. Also, as you mention, the beginning of WW1. People who denounce you for owning these guns forget human conflict dates back to Cain and Able. We need to remember history and learn from it. If knowing these weapons can help bring perspective I'm all for it. One more thing, I really like to see the cross over between channels. You set a great example of cooperation that we all need to see.
Dana I am also 66 years old I was born June 1952. I grew up protesting Viet Nam and even worked on the McGovern campaign. As time has gone on I watched far left radicals grow government to a size that's unmanageable. I watched cities and states take away peoples rights and chip away at the Constitution. I've watched the growth of the cesspools like New York, Chicago and LA. I also am a firearm owner and I load my own ammo. I don't always agree with Trump, but considering the alternative he's much better. Actually gun control was started before the Civil War by southern democrat slave owners who disarmed the slaves. I also support the whole constitution, it's the liberals who want to cherry pick the parts they don't like, like the 2nd amendment. That was the beginning, now they're going after the first. I will say this, I appreciate we can disagree and still respect each others opinion and not resort to violence.
I really think preserving these guns is much like preserving the battle fields or war cemeteries. It is honoring the sacrifice of those who used them and those who were on the receiving end. Even if they were on what we think was the other side, they were all just a soldier doing what there country asked. We owe all of the soldiers regardless of side remembrance so hopefully we never fall into that type of conflict again.
I have a nugget that has so many different national marks on it, the reds, the whites, the fins this gun was passed around and captured back and forth like fiend, meaning it fought, meaning there are bodies on it. It has historical weight, it centers you in what those soldiers must have felt when you feel it, when you shoot it. I have a Type 99 that has burned handprint outlines it in, from where my friends grandpa pried it from the charred hands of a Japanese soldier that was trying to kill him with it. he earned it, he cared for the gun, he gave it to my friend, when my friend passed he gave it to me.
The only thing I would add is just because the weapon of the "bad guys" doesn't mean necessarily that it was a bad guy that was using it. Even in a country filled with people doing horrible things, there are still ultimately good people that get wrapped up in it's war. That firearm you hold may just be the one they were holding, but even if it's not, it's still part of their story by being similar to what such people held.
Well said guys. I feel the same way. I have a Spanish 1916 mauser with bayonet damage in the stock from offensive use, it's definitely been used to kill people, but it showed me the horrors of the Spanish civil war, how it was basically a proto-ww2 with the politics being deathly familiar, in a way, to the division in this great land today. So I reverence all who have fought for their lives, their lands, and their families with a greater understanding and appreciation because of one humble, soulless companion that may well save or take lives in the future, I pray in my care it's the former.
Great video and great discussion.
I owned a car that an elderly lady had committed suicide in. It really freaked some people out. At first, I thought “it’s just a machine- a tool” and didn’t think anything about it. The more I drove the car, the more I thought about that poor lady, even though I never met her. I put 100k miles on that car in 3 years and she served me well- like she was taking care of me. I gave her the name “Beatrice”. I tell the history of the car to people and it keeps the memory of that lady alive. Earlier this year I found someone who appreciated the unique history of the car and Beatrice has a new home and her memory lives on. I also have a beat to hell, 1943 Mosin 91/30 named “Ivan”... but that’s a story for another time.
Pre 1942, most soldiers that died during conflict didn't die in battle from injuries of any type. Most soldiers died of infection, as, until the introduction of penicillin, many otherwise survivable wounds would lead to sepsis, which had a pretty high probability of death...
I have a No4 Lee Enfield which has "'My heart" and "Treat her well" scratched into the magazine. When I handle this rifle I wonder what it and its owner may have gone through and I think about how hard it must have been for that soldier to turn this piece in upon discharge. The desperation, fear, anger and exhaustion of their owners have soaked into the wood of these weapons and I try to feel that or at least appreciate it when I hold these guns.
I have a Chinese Type 53 Mosin that has a character that means "remember" etched into the stock in two places. It looks like it was dragged through Hell, and boy do I wish it could talk.