7th Gen fighters will be single stage to orbit with nuclear propulsion and beyond line of sight directed energy, capable of delivering small tungsten space-to-ground rods and Mach 10+ space-to-air missiles, or at least they better be.
Tyvm, I love learning. I still feel that the F-15 should be updated with the most up-to-date adaptive cycle engines, to act as a fast missile truck. And the stealthy assets should be the tip of the spear feeding data back to the f-15s, who can dash forward launch Beyond visual range missiles and dash away at Mach two point whatever. Allowing the stealthy, and much more expensive, assets to remain hidden.
I've avoided any video about 6th gen because it's 99.99% BS. However when Ward talks about it I know it's going to be legit and I'm happy to finally get to learn what 6th gen might be like.
I would highly reccomend Perun's channel as well! His vid on 6th gen programs is the first vid I saw of his and it was so refreshing compared to the clickbait BS you're referring to!
the thing is just that we don't really know anything yet need more time for more to be delivered to the press it's all mostly speculation, even the requirements aren't necessarily baked in
It's not really that hard to find properly informed videos about 6th gens as a topic, most of what was mentioned here was mentioned elsewhere as well and I honestly learned nothing new watching this.
Mooch, you and Paco have a knack for taking complex subjects, boiling them down to something easily digestible. This episode really clarified the concepts for me. Thanks a bunch. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt !!!
Growing up in the late 80’s as a kid in VA Beach it was very common to see a two-ship of Tomcats. I remember how at high bank angles at altitude they would appear as elongated triangles in the sky when the wings were swept. These 6th gen fighters will probably look very similar with their triangular profiles.
I flew Vampire 1st gen, Avon Sabre 30mm cannon and sidewinders 2nd gen - great, and Mirage 3rd gen - fabulous. Then downgraded to Airbus A310 and B777.
@@grahamstrouse1165 MOSTLY being the key word there. As long as there are targets which require "eyes on" before engagement, then we will have a need for aircraft with humans piloting them. Missiles are great and all, but you can say missiles and drones will make manned aircraft obsolete all you want... But it isn't so. Hell, Nicola Tesla thought that remote control technology would make war unthinkable and obsolete over 100 years ago when he invented the technology, but the sad fact is that as long as we have politicians who are beholden to special interests, factories that employ thousands which makes the weapons of war, we are going to continue to push the envelope with manned aircraft.
Although I’m not a military biased individual, I enjoy these videos and the honest delivery.. I will say. I would like to say “thank you” to everyone in current and passed history that stood for their countrymen in both uniform and facilities with the aim to make the world a better place for mankind. 😊
Concerning your remarks on the Nation mix for the GCAP: the only „New kid on the block“ there is Japan. UK and Italy have already built the Tornado and Eurofighter Typhoon together (both with Germany and in the latter case as well Spain). Moreover they have both been development partners for the F-35 with wich both have replaced their Tornado fleets…
Love the channel! When can we expect the A-12 episode? My Dad was at McDonnell Douglas working on that project and subsequently laid off. Eagerly awaiting that episode! Keep up the great work on the channel! Thank you.
Japan and the UK had Verrrrry close Military ties from the late 1860s to well past 1918. Japan basically started its Navy on the British Model particularly in Military Science, Command Structure and even some British "class culture". Japan sent promising officers to train on British ships and attend military academies. They copied the UK's Blue Water success and engineering prowess Additionally, Japan had a Monarchical system similar to Great Britain. Japan's first Capital Ship was built in Britain. One example still survives as a Museum Ship near a Modern Japanese Navy Base.
Tyvm, I love learning. I still feel that the F-15 should be updated with the most up-to-date adaptive cycle engines, to act as a fast missile truck. And the stealthy assets should be the tip of the spear feeding data back to the f-15s, who can dash forward launch Beyond visual range missiles and dash away at Mach two point whatever. Allowing the stealthy, and much more expensive, assets to remain hidden.
F15EX thanks to a limited commercial mil. market keeping the platform viable and somewhat "conventional" parts, this is a real possibility. Financial stealth technology.
The forward fuselage chine on the Tempest is a fundamental low observability shape. You see it prominently on the SR-71 and also the Tacit Blue technology demonstrator. It’s one way of making a basically tubular shape less reflective.
Hiya Mooch & pakko excellent video with loads to educate us all, it was really interesting to hear about how fast & how far the 5th gen aircraft can travel nowadays plus excellent narration & picture's to help along the way so job good job so please keep them coming, thankyou guy's for your service in keeping us all safe & alive I salute u both GL&HF coming from Dulwich London England(✌peace✌) ✈⚓✈💪💪
12:45 LOL ward 'mooch' I love this head nod so much, when someone is talking at work and i instinctively agree, I do the same time of head nod, people call it theatrics sometimes, but its like I'm in such agreement and the person said it so well I can't help but nod YESSS!!!! haha I just found that super endearing -- Thats being said great point by Pako on the Range for Pacific P2P missions
The Mooch and Merge newsletters so great, I love when I get those drops in my inbox I really do enjoy this guest "Pako" Benitez so much, It makes me so happy we get him on the pod so much!
I guess I'd better get my taxes paid on time so we can afford to stay ahead of the game. 😉 Thanks for the great run-down, Gentlemen! Always fun stuff here, Mooch.
A note about the Chinese 6th gen mock-up @ 24:26. It's a prop from a company that builds flight control surfaces, not from an airframe manufacturer. So that prop is really just a prop and nothing more. Their actual 6th gen craft likely won't be anything like that. They're still in the airframe exploration phase at the moment from what I can see. Trying to figure out what shapes make sense. I'd guess they're aiming for a 2035 IOC. Also, from what I can tell, the most important subsystem in a 6th gen fighter will be the propulsion/power system and the relevant thermal management subsystems. That will allow for not only next level kinematic performance, but more importantly, powering and cooling powerful electronics, sensors, jammers, and directed energy weaponry. Having those will be such a game-changer.
I remember requesting this episode a few months ago… this was so awesome 😎…. I wish it would have gone longer! I could nerd out all day on the interesting features on all these projects
I had an opportunity years ago to get an upclose look at the Northrop YF-23 when it was parked in front of the Air Force Museum restoration shop. It had a very 6th Gen look to it with a tail that was almost co-planar with the wings. I wouldn't be surprised if the 6th Gen looks like a -23 on steroids.
21:00 Great point, Reminds me some points about our shipyard industry, Once its gone, its extremely hard to recessitate it without rebuilding it, Thanks again Pako for the amazing insights
there are some similarities between Italy, GB, and Japan : all are geographically similar. Italy is almost an island nation being a long peninsula, ie all are near the same size, have much coastline and are concerned mainly with defense of their interior space rather than projection, in terms of this strange bed-fellows project anyway .
Fabulous. Always a joy, Mooch, especially the last couple videos. I would enjoy more analysis of aircraft engine building and why China struggles with it. Also, it would be good to get some history in there and include Ukraine's old engine building capabilities.
I want to thank both Mooch and Pako for setting this old man's gray matter on fire! I have so little to use in the first place (after all I am USAF Ret,)
The SU-75 and F-31 got their reverse intake cant from Vought, when they were designing the F-8U3 Super Crusader. The same reverse cant was also on the F-105.
Great episode Mooch! I would like to see you do a Deep Intel episode on the state of radars today. All of these designs still have a major focus on stealth, but with radar tech today and cyber capabilities, will stealth still be relevant by the time we build the 6th gen fighter? I am curious. Keep up the great work!
I think Stealth is the main factor that will keep an aircraft safe in the skies, as well as perhaps advanced avionics. The phrase you can't kill what you can't see still applies & that is the best form of defence. Anti missile technologies like lasers will also be interesting, and loyal wingman drones.
Thanks Mooch for your excellent content. The UK and Italy are no strangers to one another in the Military aircraft arena. We were partners in the Tornado programme dating back to the 60's; Italy and Saudi Arabia both operated Tornado F3s in the interceptor role. Italian company Leonardo took over both the former UK helicopter manufacturer Westland Helicopters and military radar manufacturer Ferranti. Japan is a much more recent ally in the development of military aircraft. However, long before BREXIT, the UK has not always seen eye to eye with the French and Germans. Since the 1960's, they have been our traditional partners in developing military aircraft.
3rd Gen fighters had refined, low-bypass turbojets ideal for high altitude, supersonic speeds and relatively low AOA. They also had pulse doppler Radars with fault-prone mechanically-scanned arrays with no real look-down/shoot-down capability to filter through ground or sea clutter. 4th Gen introduced turbofans with higher bypass ratios that also allowed higher AOA at low-speed regime. Radar Look-down/shoot-down capability with processing power to filter ground or sea clutter was fundamental to the avionics, using solid state and digital electronics. F-16 & F/A-18 also brought in electronic flight control systems and higher use of composites in the airframes. Within the 4th Gen, we introduced DFLCS, DEEC, and FADEC for flight control and engine control. We also introduced Electronically-Steered Arrays with non-moving antennae. 5th Gen introduced VLO airframes, integrated fused sensor suites, internal weapons, DFLCS integrated with FADEC, fly-by-light fiber optic DFLCS, multi-bank CPU/CNI, and LPI LoS multi-layer data links for closed, net-centric warfare. AESA Radars have become Multi-Function Arrays that passively or actively detect, PID, ground-map, and jam threat aircraft and ground-based systems. The gap between 4.5 Gen and 5th Gen is huge.
Italy, UK and Japan are more alike when you think about their geography. Japan and UK are islands and Italy mostly surrounded by water. All three should be more focused on defending their terrain rather than extending their reach aggressively. And all three have a deep manufacturing base, but also can combine their strengths and create a coalition that relies equally on one another to ensure that if one is attacked, others must unite with them out of necessity.
I get that Japan is an odd mix with Italy and the UK. But the UK and Italy have worked on joint projects together for decades such as Eurofighter and tornado
Mooch and Pako, you are both scholars and gentlemen. Thanks for all the engaging information. I found this entire conversation highly interesting. Keep up the good works and thank you for your service! God bless
Just to add on the 4th Gen - HUD, Fly by wire, 0/0 ejection seats, Link 16 data links and comms, first laser and IR targeting (pods). And on the 5th Generation - super cruise, color lcd and touch screens w/ digital battlefield management, digital document, maintenance and flight management systems, thrust vectoring, aesa radar (digitally controlled radar elements which no longer need the movable radar domes). Full and integrated spectrum broad spectrum targeting, helmet mounted targeting and displays.
Remember to tell Nasty to keep his eyes straight & move his head to look around in VR. The Reverb G2 V2 has a very small sweet spot & trying to look side to side with your eyeballs will cause motion sickness symptoms. Because the eye is trying to focus through the lens which is itself blurry. Also Ginger Ale helps with motion sickness. Also make sure the IPD is correct for Nasty. Il-2 Flying Circus is great for teaching "SKY EYES" because of the slow & close combat.
Great podcast! Is this the only podcast that has ever discussed propulsion requirements to the level you and Pako go to Mooch? Unlikely! The Air Force has made an impressive level of funding available for fighter propulsion system development. Good on Pako for highlighting the history of the F135 on the F-35! If you want to do a fighter program correctly, start developing the engine first.
Hey, Mooch. I got a question. I served from 95 to 10. USMC,USA and USAF. Enlisted, but mostly a Grunt. I’ve been to the museum at Ft. Sill. I saw a few things I used, that were Top Secret in the museum. I instantly felt OLD! How do you feel knowing that the Tomcat is totally out of service?
Always enjoy these vids. Maybe give the Swedes credit for the first 4th gen with the Viggen? Design went back to high maneuverability and alpha capability and greatly influenced 4th gen design in europe. Definitely a departure from the phantom and other 3rd gen aircraft.
@Ward Carroll With the importance of range in the Pacific theatre that you touched on in this video, I've always wondered why the U.S. hasn't developed a stealth aerial refueling tanker that could penetrate with the stealth combat assets. It seems like a sorely missing capability that our conventional tankers we have now cannot fulfil.
That's left field, off the wall, completely excentric ................. And *a bloody smart idea* 🤔 Think of the British Vulcan, all those years ago and still an absolute 👺 to try and spot on radar So *Size should not be an exclusive factor* Although that said, on of the recent UA-cam videos on stealth & radars was pointing out 5th Gen are *not Invisible to radar* It depends on the type of radar / the frequency used. I may have this 'arseaboutface' but I think its long slow wave radars that can see stealthy 'planes BUT only approximately where they are.... Whilst short fast wave radars are pinpoint accurate but don't see stealth designs well. MAYBE Vulcan-like size now would be more visible?
MQ-25 is already going operational. FRS is at Point Mugu. Carrier trials and Air Wing platform interoperability tests were done over the past few years with Super Hornets, E-2D, and F-35Cs. This is already a thing.
@LRRPFco52 I have seen the MQ-25, it looks awesome. And I'm obviously not a naval flight-ops expert, but isn't the primary role of that platform more to remain on station closer to the carrier and provide support more along the lines of buddy tanking? They just seem more on the smaller scale, while I was thinking of a broader, strategic taker role.
@@Mafuskas I think the Air Force is looking into a stealthy air tanker design. Obviously it's going to be a while before anything comes out of that, but it is a thing...kind of.
@@Mafuskas That’s correct, it’s meant to relieve the current F/A-18s that are buddy refueling. But they can still hold quite a bit of fuel. A big strategic tanker that you are probably thinking of isn’t in the works currently though, at least in the USN.
@@reallyhappenings5597 In the near future, we are going to be very surprised at advances, sophistication, and integration of technologies we previously did not think possible. If you do a historical overview, and apply it to what is happening today, the application of existing technologies and older technologies will baffle us, as to what can be done. One of my customers showed me a thick file that he had compiled, by investigating whether or not the Pogue carburetor was real. I took that information, and combined it with the technology used on the Saturn 5 rocket, combined with other combustion engine designs, and was able to create something in the shop that far surpassed Mr Pogues idea. If I would have incorporated engine mapping, and variable valve technology into my system, it would have been even more outstanding. As a general rule, the technology that has passed to the consumer is only technology they have to market to entice the consumer(Chevrolet's splash lubrication system of the 1930's is proof of that), but they have things that can go way beyond it and I proved that to myself. Currently, Koch Automotive Innovation is stuck on turbo and direct injection. With available technologies, that is very basic. Internal combustion, and external combustion engines, with available technologies, and past technologies, can go way beyond direct fuel injection/turbo systems. Very difficult to break the current direction of development because of corporate stock interests.
Hey Mooch and Pako, great content! Any idea if the "lego" updatability of sixth gen will include some way to incorporate DAS? Obviously right now, DAS on the F-35 is hard-wired into the fuselage and updating it is kind of a big job.
I suspect so. I would imagine everything will be designed with modularity and open systems architecture in mind so a platform is not anchored to any specific subsystem or vendor
DAS is open architecture from a hardware and software standpoint, unlike how we have to deal with 4th Gen airframes, mounting points, wiring, cockpit interface, power, and cooling. DAS is already switching vendors from NG to Raytheon going to Block 4.
@@LRRPFco52 Block 4 is kind of like an entirely new jet, from the engine core to radar to systems to software... Each combat coded jet will be in shop for quite a while and each will cost $$$$ to upgrade. I'm assuming NGAD will want to be able to do this with much less friction and cost.
@@vmpgsc With JSF, there's a closed loop architecture instead of federated parallel wiring like on 4th Gen. It's plug-and-play along with software updates. Pull an old 1024x1024 DAS Camera, plug in the new 2048x2048 model that's lighter and less cost, drop the software update. In 4th Gen, you have to pull LRUs, add new wiring and hardware into the power, signals, and cockpit interface lay-out, which is a pain. Upgrading subsystems in JSF is mostly plug-and-play. The biggest structural change with Block 4 is bulkheads in the weapons bay landmarks that need shape clearance for Sidekick. The new engine core is part of the overhaul schedule, plug-and-play. Contrast that with F-16CM CCIP 1, 1A, 2, or PoBIT, and you'll see the difference. JSF was meant to be rapidly upgraded with modular subsystem replacement at the lowest levels possible, so big overhauls at depot are less costly and time-consuming.
What you're thinking of "modularity", like remove and replace components easier as updated, correct?? Not just for updating but also for repairs in the field?? The Swedes are ahead of everyone in that last part.
Last month I saw a what I believe was a 6th gen on the back of a semi just west of the VLA New Mexico ....huge security leading and following heading east. Being an aircraft fan....as it was coming towards me(I had pulled off to the road edge) one could see the outline under the cover....NOTHING I had ever seen before. As it went by me ..weird inlets, no vert stab, wings attached, could not make out any tail parts.
For AF NGAD - OMS open mission systems. It is decoupled from the flight control system. Govt furnishes a common architecture shell based on a Google developed code. The contractor develops apps that sit on the OMS. Govt owns the intellectual property. Development is faster. It also allows the AF to introduce a future tranche of NGAD by another prime using the same OMS architecture.
GCAP I like the point Paco made about the UK, Japan and Italy if they don't develop the plane now they will lose the industrial capability going forward.
That was fun--I hope everyone enjoyed it! Thanks Mooch!
Thanks for the time, Pako. Always awesome to have you on the channel.
7th Gen fighters will be single stage to orbit with nuclear propulsion and beyond line of sight directed energy, capable of delivering small tungsten space-to-ground rods and Mach 10+ space-to-air missiles, or at least they better be.
Soneone should call one the EGAAD
Gold.
Tyvm, I love learning. I still feel that the F-15 should be updated with the most up-to-date adaptive cycle engines, to act as a fast missile truck. And the stealthy assets should be the tip of the spear feeding data back to the f-15s, who can dash forward launch Beyond visual range missiles and dash away at Mach two point whatever. Allowing the stealthy, and much more expensive, assets to remain hidden.
I've avoided any video about 6th gen because it's 99.99% BS. However when Ward talks about it I know it's going to be legit and I'm happy to finally get to learn what 6th gen might be like.
I would highly reccomend Perun's channel as well! His vid on 6th gen programs is the first vid I saw of his and it was so refreshing compared to the clickbait BS you're referring to!
Exactly, when there's anything about the military that I want to get the actual facts about this is the only place I tune in.
I thought it would be a tic-tac.
the thing is just that we don't really know anything yet
need more time for more to be delivered to the press
it's all mostly speculation, even the requirements aren't necessarily baked in
It's not really that hard to find properly informed videos about 6th gens as a topic, most of what was mentioned here was mentioned elsewhere as well and I honestly learned nothing new watching this.
Mooch, you and Paco have a knack for taking complex subjects, boiling them down to something easily digestible. This episode really clarified the concepts for me. Thanks a bunch. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt !!!
Growing up in the late 80’s as a kid in VA Beach it was very common to see a two-ship of Tomcats. I remember how at high bank angles at altitude they would appear as elongated triangles in the sky when the wings were swept. These 6th gen fighters will probably look very similar with their triangular profiles.
A brilliant, informative and fun conversation…thanks Mooch and Pako.
🍻
Thank you!
I flew Vampire 1st gen, Avon Sabre 30mm cannon and sidewinders 2nd gen - great, and Mirage 3rd gen - fabulous. Then downgraded to Airbus A310 and B777.
Thanks Ward. Can not get enough of Pako and his insights.
Thanks!
12:44 That look on Mooch's face when he was visualizing the difference of an extra 200 to 300 miles of range in the Pacific theater!
PRICELESS !
In the missile age it’s mostly moot.
@@grahamstrouse1165 MOSTLY being the key word there. As long as there are targets which require "eyes on" before engagement, then we will have a need for aircraft with humans piloting them. Missiles are great and all, but you can say missiles and drones will make manned aircraft obsolete all you want... But it isn't so. Hell, Nicola Tesla thought that remote control technology would make war unthinkable and obsolete over 100 years ago when he invented the technology, but the sad fact is that as long as we have politicians who are beholden to special interests, factories that employ thousands which makes the weapons of war, we are going to continue to push the envelope with manned aircraft.
Although I’m not a military biased individual, I enjoy these videos and the honest delivery.. I will say. I would like to say “thank you” to everyone in current and passed history that stood for their countrymen in both uniform and facilities with the aim to make the world a better place for mankind. 😊
Thank you gentlemen for sharing your firsthand knowledge on a complex subject.
Concerning your remarks on the Nation mix for the GCAP: the only „New kid on the block“ there is Japan. UK and Italy have already built the Tornado and Eurofighter Typhoon together (both with Germany and in the latter case as well Spain). Moreover they have both been development partners for the F-35 with wich both have replaced their Tornado fleets…
Great stuff! It's funny how the YF-23 was a 6th gen fighter before it was cool.
too risky for a risk adverse crowd of yes men
Love the channel! When can we expect the A-12 episode? My Dad was at McDonnell Douglas working on that project and subsequently laid off. Eagerly awaiting that episode! Keep up the great work on the channel! Thank you.
Soon!
Man, your channel has really come quite a long way. It started out as a once in a while niche type deal to a must watch for me. Bravo sir!
Japan and the UK had Verrrrry close Military ties from the late 1860s to well past 1918. Japan basically started its Navy on the British Model particularly in Military Science, Command Structure and even some British "class culture". Japan sent promising officers to train on British ships and attend military academies. They copied the UK's Blue Water success and engineering prowess Additionally, Japan had a Monarchical system similar to Great Britain. Japan's first Capital Ship was built in Britain. One example still survives as a Museum Ship near a Modern Japanese Navy Base.
Tyvm, I love learning. I still feel that the F-15 should be updated with the most up-to-date adaptive cycle engines, to act as a fast missile truck. And the stealthy assets should be the tip of the spear feeding data back to the f-15s, who can dash forward launch Beyond visual range missiles and dash away at Mach two point whatever. Allowing the stealthy, and much more expensive, assets to remain hidden.
F15EX thanks to a limited commercial mil. market keeping the platform viable and somewhat "conventional" parts, this is a real possibility. Financial stealth technology.
M2.8 the f35 tips at 1.8
The forward fuselage chine on the Tempest is a fundamental low observability shape. You see it prominently on the SR-71 and also the Tacit Blue technology demonstrator. It’s one way of making a basically tubular shape less reflective.
Hiya Mooch & pakko excellent video with loads to educate us all, it was really interesting to hear about how fast & how far the 5th gen aircraft can travel nowadays plus excellent narration & picture's to help along the way so job good job so please keep them coming, thankyou guy's for your service in keeping us all safe & alive I salute u both GL&HF coming from Dulwich London England(✌peace✌) ✈⚓✈💪💪
Always informative and interesting! Keep them coming!
I really like the U.S. Navy NGAD concept. That is one good looking plane.
12:45 LOL ward 'mooch' I love this head nod so much,
when someone is talking at work and i instinctively agree,
I do the same time of head nod, people call it theatrics sometimes,
but its like I'm in such agreement and the person said it so well I can't help but nod YESSS!!!!
haha I just found that super endearing --
Thats being said great point by Pako on the Range for Pacific P2P missions
Always very interesting to hear Pako discuss these topics. Such a competent fella.
thanks!
Whenever I see the words Deep Intel in the title, I’m drawn to it like a magnet. And anything in 6th Gen, I’m excited. That was lots of fun
Great vid.
As an FYI, Perun has a good video on gen 6, with an emphasis on econ and industrial aspects.
The Mooch and Merge newsletters so great,
I love when I get those drops in my inbox
I really do enjoy this guest "Pako" Benitez so much,
It makes me so happy we get him on the pod so much!
I guess I'd better get my taxes paid on time so we can afford to stay ahead of the game. 😉 Thanks for the great run-down, Gentlemen! Always fun stuff here, Mooch.
Get your taxes paid before they audit you are raise your taxes !
Never mind all of those people that don’t pay any taxes.
That’s all we get in the USA for our taxes haha
America could be just as likely be completely broke by the time this thing comes out.
Thanks Ward, that was very interesting. You always deliver the best shows.
Great episode as always, love the interactions and different viewpoints between you and Pako
A note about the Chinese 6th gen mock-up @ 24:26. It's a prop from a company that builds flight control surfaces, not from an airframe manufacturer. So that prop is really just a prop and nothing more. Their actual 6th gen craft likely won't be anything like that. They're still in the airframe exploration phase at the moment from what I can see. Trying to figure out what shapes make sense. I'd guess they're aiming for a 2035 IOC.
Also, from what I can tell, the most important subsystem in a 6th gen fighter will be the propulsion/power system and the relevant thermal management subsystems. That will allow for not only next level kinematic performance, but more importantly, powering and cooling powerful electronics, sensors, jammers, and directed energy weaponry. Having those will be such a game-changer.
I remember requesting this episode a few months ago… this was so awesome 😎…. I wish it would have gone longer! I could nerd out all day on the interesting features on all these projects
Deep Intel is definitely my favorite! Thanks!
NEED MORE PACO!!! LOVE YA MOOCH Seriously though I could listen to you and Paco talk all day long. Can't get enough
Thanks!! 😎
I had an opportunity years ago to get an upclose look at the Northrop YF-23 when it was parked in front of the Air Force Museum restoration shop. It had a very 6th Gen look to it with a tail that was almost co-planar with the wings. I wouldn't be surprised if the 6th Gen looks like a -23 on steroids.
More likely to resemble the X-44.
The 23 30 years later still looks like a future fighter!
Wouldn't be surprised if the 6th gen testbed the DoD mentioned is already flying is directly derived from the YF-23
YF-23 looks like 6th gen because all the 6th gen concepts released so far are just modernized YF-23
@@Justanotherconsumer X-44 only existed on paper.
Awesome content and expertise as always, really enjoy watching this channel.
21:00 Great point,
Reminds me some points about our shipyard industry,
Once its gone, its extremely hard to recessitate it without rebuilding it,
Thanks again Pako for the amazing insights
Going to be interesting whose Aero Industries can make or break 6th gen
Great job, Mooch and Pako! The air scoop on the SU-75 reminds me of the air intake on the F8U-3 CRUSADER III too.
Fun stuff. I like the calm cool instructor approach we get from Mooch.
Great stuff.
Good stuff...great summary/explanation of "gens" of fighters. Thx, Mooch. -Korey
there are some similarities between Italy, GB, and Japan : all are geographically similar. Italy is almost an island nation being a long peninsula, ie all are near the same size, have much coastline and are concerned mainly with defense of their interior space rather than projection, in terms of this strange bed-fellows project anyway .
Fabulous. Always a joy, Mooch, especially the last couple videos. I would enjoy more analysis of aircraft engine building and why China struggles with it. Also, it would be good to get some history in there and include Ukraine's old engine building capabilities.
I like that the "Mig-41" has a throw back to the Mig-21 with the intake being the nosecone.
This was the NGAD video I was looking for. Thanks!
I want to thank both Mooch and Pako for setting this old man's gray matter on fire! I have so little to use in the first place (after all I am USAF Ret,)
The SU-75 and F-31 got their reverse intake cant from Vought, when they were designing the F-8U3 Super Crusader. The same reverse cant was also on the F-105.
Great episode Mooch! I would like to see you do a Deep Intel episode on the state of radars today. All of these designs still have a major focus on stealth, but with radar tech today and cyber capabilities, will stealth still be relevant by the time we build the 6th gen fighter? I am curious. Keep up the great work!
Great topic
I think Stealth is the main factor that will keep an aircraft safe in the skies, as well as perhaps advanced avionics. The phrase you can't kill what you can't see still applies & that is the best form of defence. Anti missile technologies like lasers will also be interesting, and loyal wingman drones.
Thanks Mooch for your excellent content. The UK and Italy are no strangers to one another in the Military aircraft arena. We were partners in the Tornado programme dating back to the 60's; Italy and Saudi Arabia both operated Tornado F3s in the interceptor role. Italian company Leonardo took over both the former UK helicopter manufacturer Westland Helicopters and military radar manufacturer Ferranti. Japan is a much more recent ally in the development of military aircraft. However, long before BREXIT, the UK has not always seen eye to eye with the French and Germans. Since the 1960's, they have been our traditional partners in developing military aircraft.
Thanks Mooch I always enjoy your channel. When you team up with Paco it really gets good.
3rd Gen fighters had refined, low-bypass turbojets ideal for high altitude, supersonic speeds and relatively low AOA. They also had pulse doppler Radars with fault-prone mechanically-scanned arrays with no real look-down/shoot-down capability to filter through ground or sea clutter.
4th Gen introduced turbofans with higher bypass ratios that also allowed higher AOA at low-speed regime. Radar Look-down/shoot-down capability with processing power to filter ground or sea clutter was fundamental to the avionics, using solid state and digital electronics.
F-16 & F/A-18 also brought in electronic flight control systems and higher use of composites in the airframes.
Within the 4th Gen, we introduced DFLCS, DEEC, and FADEC for flight control and engine control. We also introduced Electronically-Steered Arrays with non-moving antennae.
5th Gen introduced VLO airframes, integrated fused sensor suites, internal weapons, DFLCS integrated with FADEC, fly-by-light fiber optic DFLCS, multi-bank CPU/CNI, and LPI LoS multi-layer data links for closed, net-centric warfare. AESA Radars have become Multi-Function Arrays that passively or actively detect, PID, ground-map, and jam threat aircraft and ground-based systems.
The gap between 4.5 Gen and 5th Gen is huge.
A very good and very detailed answer.
Italy, UK and Japan are more alike when you think about their geography. Japan and UK are islands and Italy mostly surrounded by water. All three should be more focused on defending their terrain rather than extending their reach aggressively. And all three have a deep manufacturing base, but also can combine their strengths and create a coalition that relies equally on one another to ensure that if one is attacked, others must unite with them out of necessity.
Always a treat to get a look at how original and innovative the Chinese can be!
WoW! What an amazing interview crammed full of information done in plain language which EVERYONE can understand! Gr8 job guys, keep it up! ❤
thanks!!!
I get that Japan is an odd mix with Italy and the UK. But the UK and Italy have worked on joint projects together for decades such as Eurofighter and tornado
Not sure if you were referencing the A-12 "Avenger", but in any case that was a McDonnell Douglas design. Great vid as always.
I think he may have been referring to the A-12 interceptor build by Lockheed., predecessor to the SR-71. Please reference 'Oxcart' program.
@@robertducanis4448 No, the A-12 Avenger-II, the cancelled Naval Dorito shaped stealth jet. Not the J58 powered A-12 Oxcart.
Mooch and Pako, you are both scholars and gentlemen. Thanks for all the engaging information. I found this entire conversation highly interesting. Keep up the good works and thank you for your service! God bless
That’s a solid video, thanks!
I know this was produced about a month ago but I was wondering “when’s he going to talk about the A-12?”
Just to add on the 4th Gen - HUD, Fly by wire, 0/0 ejection seats, Link 16 data links and comms, first laser and IR targeting (pods). And on the 5th Generation - super cruise, color lcd and touch screens w/ digital battlefield management, digital document, maintenance and flight management systems, thrust vectoring, aesa radar (digitally controlled radar elements which no longer need the movable radar domes). Full and integrated spectrum broad spectrum targeting, helmet mounted targeting and displays.
Remember to tell Nasty to keep his eyes straight & move his head to look around in VR. The Reverb G2 V2 has a very small sweet spot & trying to look side to side with your eyeballs will cause motion sickness symptoms. Because the eye is trying to focus through the lens which is itself blurry. Also Ginger Ale helps with motion sickness. Also make sure the IPD is correct for Nasty.
Il-2 Flying Circus is great for teaching "SKY EYES" because of the slow & close combat.
Great video! I can only imagine ACM with an air superiority drone. Seems like without intense jamming and ECM it would be unbeatable
That was great! Just joined, 71 YO aviator, guitar player/collector/musician. Thanks!! --gary (BFG)
Write another book, Mooch. Those were great! My favorite was the 3rd one.
The Strake on the Tempest nose is to ionise the hull making a ion sheath that removes alot of drag and make it stealthy.
Very interesting, thank you. Also, sunburst is the best looking color.
Aces again!! Very interesting as always. Thanks!! 👍💪👋
I’m a Merge subscriber at your suggestion but these interviews are invaluable for me.
_Great_ live stream, Ward & Pako...👍
Thanks!!!
@@TheMergeMedia >>> You're Welcome.
8:35 wow another great image! Thanks mooch
what a comparison!
Great podcast! Is this the only podcast that has ever discussed propulsion requirements to the level you and Pako go to Mooch? Unlikely! The Air Force has made an impressive level of funding available for fighter propulsion system development. Good on Pako for highlighting the history of the F135 on the F-35! If you want to do a fighter program correctly, start developing the engine first.
Love the Merge! Thanks Mooch & Pako!
Hey, Mooch. I got a question. I served from 95 to 10. USMC,USA and USAF. Enlisted, but mostly a Grunt. I’ve been to the museum at Ft. Sill. I saw a few things I used, that were Top Secret in the museum. I instantly felt OLD! How do you feel knowing that the Tomcat is totally out of service?
The SU 75 intake reminds me of the A7 Crusader which was always a workhorse that was under favored for what it would do and what it did.
The lockheed martin art made me remember the F/A-32 "what if" images, it looked so cool
Holy shmoly - just a couple of seconds into the video and I can't wait for the video with you and Nasty and him flying the 14 in VR.
Excellent content. I've got nothing to say. There's no improvements to be made. You guys are the best.
Exactly!
Always enjoy these vids. Maybe give the Swedes credit for the first 4th gen with the Viggen? Design went back to high maneuverability and alpha capability and greatly influenced 4th gen design in europe. Definitely a departure from the phantom and other 3rd gen aircraft.
excellent update on future planning.
Great show as always.
@Ward Carroll With the importance of range in the Pacific theatre that you touched on in this video, I've always wondered why the U.S. hasn't developed a stealth aerial refueling tanker that could penetrate with the stealth combat assets. It seems like a sorely missing capability that our conventional tankers we have now cannot fulfil.
That's left field, off the wall, completely excentric ................. And *a bloody smart idea* 🤔
Think of the British Vulcan, all those years ago and still an absolute 👺 to try and spot on radar
So *Size should not be an exclusive factor*
Although that said, on of the recent UA-cam videos on stealth & radars was pointing out 5th Gen are *not Invisible to radar*
It depends on the type of radar / the frequency used.
I may have this 'arseaboutface' but I think its long slow wave radars that can see stealthy 'planes BUT only approximately where they are.... Whilst short fast wave radars are pinpoint accurate but don't see stealth designs well.
MAYBE Vulcan-like size now would be more visible?
MQ-25 is already going operational. FRS is at Point Mugu. Carrier trials and Air Wing platform interoperability tests were done over the past few years with Super Hornets, E-2D, and F-35Cs. This is already a thing.
@LRRPFco52 I have seen the MQ-25, it looks awesome. And I'm obviously not a naval flight-ops expert, but isn't the primary role of that platform more to remain on station closer to the carrier and provide support more along the lines of buddy tanking? They just seem more on the smaller scale, while I was thinking of a broader, strategic taker role.
@@Mafuskas I think the Air Force is looking into a stealthy air tanker design. Obviously it's going to be a while before anything comes out of that, but it is a thing...kind of.
@@Mafuskas That’s correct, it’s meant to relieve the current F/A-18s that are buddy refueling. But they can still hold quite a bit of fuel. A big strategic tanker that you are probably thinking of isn’t in the works currently though, at least in the USN.
Su-75 is modeled after the US MRF-45E proposal for the Multi-Role Fighter program from decades ago pre-JAST.
Looking at those V-tails, all I can say is "The Beechcraft was ahead of it's time? In the late '50's"
Just an old auto mechanic here, loved the comparison of VVTi and the new jet engines.
Jet engines are essentially one-stroke so I'm not sure how "VVT" works in that context, tilting compressor blades?
@@reallyhappenings5597 In the near future, we are going to be very surprised at advances, sophistication, and integration of technologies we previously did not think possible. If you do a historical overview, and apply it to what is happening today, the application of existing technologies and older technologies will baffle us, as to what can be done. One of my customers showed me a thick file that he had compiled, by investigating whether or not the Pogue carburetor was real. I took that information, and combined it with the technology used on the Saturn 5 rocket, combined with other combustion engine designs, and was able to create something in the shop that far surpassed Mr Pogues idea. If I would have incorporated engine mapping, and variable valve technology into my system, it would have been even more outstanding. As a general rule, the technology that has passed to the consumer is only technology they have to market to entice the consumer(Chevrolet's splash lubrication system of the 1930's is proof of that), but they have things that can go way beyond it and I proved that to myself. Currently, Koch Automotive Innovation is stuck on turbo and direct injection. With available technologies, that is very basic. Internal combustion, and external combustion engines, with available technologies, and past technologies, can go way beyond direct fuel injection/turbo systems. Very difficult to break the current direction of development because of corporate stock interests.
Hey Mooch and Pako, great content! Any idea if the "lego" updatability of sixth gen will include some way to incorporate DAS? Obviously right now, DAS on the F-35 is hard-wired into the fuselage and updating it is kind of a big job.
I suspect so. I would imagine everything will be designed with modularity and open systems architecture in mind so a platform is not anchored to any specific subsystem or vendor
DAS is open architecture from a hardware and software standpoint, unlike how we have to deal with 4th Gen airframes, mounting points, wiring, cockpit interface, power, and cooling.
DAS is already switching vendors from NG to Raytheon going to Block 4.
@@LRRPFco52 Block 4 is kind of like an entirely new jet, from the engine core to radar to systems to software... Each combat coded jet will be in shop for quite a while and each will cost $$$$ to upgrade. I'm assuming NGAD will want to be able to do this with much less friction and cost.
@@vmpgsc With JSF, there's a closed loop architecture instead of federated parallel wiring like on 4th Gen.
It's plug-and-play along with software updates. Pull an old 1024x1024 DAS Camera, plug in the new 2048x2048 model that's lighter and less cost, drop the software update.
In 4th Gen, you have to pull LRUs, add new wiring and hardware into the power, signals, and cockpit interface lay-out, which is a pain.
Upgrading subsystems in JSF is mostly plug-and-play. The biggest structural change with Block 4 is bulkheads in the weapons bay landmarks that need shape clearance for Sidekick.
The new engine core is part of the overhaul schedule, plug-and-play.
Contrast that with F-16CM CCIP 1, 1A, 2, or PoBIT, and you'll see the difference.
JSF was meant to be rapidly upgraded with modular subsystem replacement at the lowest levels possible, so big overhauls at depot are less costly and time-consuming.
What you're thinking of "modularity", like remove and replace components easier as updated, correct?? Not just for updating but also for repairs in the field?? The Swedes are ahead of everyone in that last part.
"Just because technology is improving doesn't mean our humanity is." -John Lovell (Warrior poet)
Well done Mooch and Paco!
Hi Ward, the A-12 Avenger was a McDonnell Douglas design, not Lockheed Martin.
The Horten Brothers should be watching this!
GREAT JOB GUYS! ENJOYED IT.
Cool vid. While I doubt it'll fly as-is, if at all, that MiG-41 looks like a beast. An old school sci-fi future fighter.
Great discussion...
Last month I saw a what I believe was a 6th gen on the back of a semi just west of the VLA New Mexico ....huge security leading and following heading east. Being an aircraft fan....as it was coming towards me(I had pulled off to the road edge) one could see the outline under the cover....NOTHING I had ever seen before. As it went by me ..weird inlets, no vert stab, wings attached, could not make out any tail parts.
Great insight! Thanks a lot!
Thanx Ward...good tech follow..
For AF NGAD - OMS open mission systems. It is decoupled from the flight control system. Govt furnishes a common architecture shell based on a Google developed code. The contractor develops apps that sit on the OMS. Govt owns the intellectual property. Development is faster. It also allows the AF to introduce a future tranche of NGAD by another prime using the same
OMS architecture.
It’s a front-side boneless on the squeeze-squab. Over my head Mooch.
GCAP I like the point Paco made about the UK, Japan and Italy if they don't develop the plane now they will lose the industrial capability going forward.
The strake on the nose of the tempest can help stop traveling waves. A perfect cylinder or circle allows radar to run along the surface.
1 of the best aviation channel in the world. Teacher Ward the best. Carolina Reaper is addictive
13:40 LOL my boys says this quite a lot now "Death by Acroynm" haha I love it
Enjoyed that show, thanks!
Ward Carroll...Paul Black here. I'm a fan, fellow guitarist (appreciate your Taylor and les Paul. Is that a Gretch?) Good work.
Paul
No adaptive camouflage yet I guess. Awesome channel and content!