Glad to know I’m not the only one who felt that sounded like Night on Bald Mountain and just to add to the Fantasia theory, the main face of Fantasia is none other than “Sorcerer Mickey” and considering Strange is/was the Sorcerer supreme, I’m 99% that’s not coincidental!
@@monkeyrun If that's the case, could Mickey invite Dr Strange to come over for a sleepover at Sora's house? Then he could have a friendly game of Smash, while all the characters get ready to jump out and go 'Boogiedeboo!' at him.
The first time I watched it, the only thing I could think was that the Dumbledore vs Grindelwald fight we're gonna get in Fantastic Beasts won't even remotely compare.
Can't go wrong with either of those two composers! In case you're interested, I had mentioned Giacchino briefly in my video on Mulan: ua-cam.com/video/roJBJ7zxAbw/v-deo.html
I think the reason they used those melodies was that not only are they the most popular classical pieces but both of them have a dark and sinister undertone. Beethoven's 5th was said to be the melody of Death knocking at the door while Toccata and Fugue is the song used during Halloween usually played by a dark figure at an organ to symbolize their evilness.
This is one of my favorite fights in the MCU. Maybe it's because I'm a huge fan of Doc Strange as a character but this specific scene was just a oh damn I love this almost instantly.
All I know is that when I first watched this I thought that in this universe they didn’t fight with typical magic symbols but with music notes instead. Thought it was a fun twist. Great analysis!
That is not a bad take actually - if music there is magic maybe our Strange's magic is actually music somewhere? Like, play with this idea of magic being a language of the universe that all can understand even if they don't actually know what is going on theoretically.
Omg i got chills! This just made my day. Ive talked about them working on each others franchises and people thinks im crazy, glad to know im not alone out there. Keep up the great work!! More Elfman and Giacchino videos would be lovely. Thank you :)
Am I the only one who thought the music duel was a kind of letdown? Like sure, it's creative to have them use music notes, but they just lob them against each other just like any other projectiles/beams that they usually do. Consider the creativity in the Dr Strange/Spiderman fight in No Way Home, with Peter using math to outsmart Stephen in his own domain. Why couldn't a "musical duel" have used more actual music theory? Like, one of them casting a spell that requires harmony, the other interrupts with dissonance, only for the first one to reharmonize it. Edit: this is of course entirely tangential to the point of your video, which is great. Keep it up!
@@HowardHoMusic Well, if the director wanted to consult someone on how to make a musical duel be both understandable to the public and theoretically genius, we both know who to call
@@HowardHoMusic Oh wait so u did know xD in that case i don’t think u realized that i just meant to point this out cuz you forgot to put the third film on the MCU spidey side to make it a more poetically pleasing comparison of trilogy to trilogy
Sooo good! My inner music nerd, Marvel & DC nerd, and Disney nerd had their own incursion, squeeling out loud and tearing up a bit at the nuanced, meta, beauty of it all!
I'm always happy to find more objective review of media discovery going on here on UA-cam. It gives the platform some real substance; a reason to watch videos.
Howard, you’ve truly outdone yourself with this masterpiece 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽 The connections you draw here are insanely nuanced, and I have such a greater appreciation for this moment now
Interesting video. When I first saw the music battle, I questioned how the magic worked mechanically. Like, what was actually happening? Was Strange shaping energy to the shape of the musical notes and firing them at his foe? Why would he do that? Was the music being played source or score? If it was source, why would Strange assign sound to the energy note? I questioned a lot of the logic there.
This made my day! The music in the film was my fave Marvel score so far. I like how they use music to show the turning point in the plot. The only place they use a psychedelic funk guitar fill in the scene where Strange decided to dream walk for the first time.
I watch these and I’m super amazed. I’m left wondering if this really was so amazing and I absolutely missed that or you overthought it. Hopefully the former.
To be honest, I wasn’t really blown away by the music battle or by Danny Elfman’s score in this film. But your analysis gives me a new perspective that I can at least appreciate. Also, just as an FYI: Giacchino is pronounced as juh-key-no.
The scene felt like a swing and a miss to me personally, but I really, really love hearing about the connections that you found in this. whether it's intentional or not, it's still all very much THERE, baked into our cultural consciousness, and gives the scene something that we still feel, as viewers, whether we can actually explain it or not. thank YOU for explaining it (and honestly this sums up how I feel about your whole channel, like you're digging up all these gems of meaning that we can't always find or explain when we do). Love it.
Wow, I appreciate this so much! And hey, I don't really mind if people dislike the movie or the scene. I'm just hoping to take people on a musical ride, and I'm glad you joined me!
This is a brilliantly done video!! Thank you! As a pianist, I love pausing scenes with sheet music in a show/movie and I didn’t clock the “Dr. Strange Theme!” Well done!! 👏🏻😁🎶
To be honest, as much as I loved how creative this fight was, I was a little disappointed since I was expecting something more action like. This video however changed my mind and now I appreciate this scene much more ✨
And... is it just me or is that harp note not also sound like the opening note of the Star Trek theme (original series), which Giacchino scored the reboot movies. Maybe it's not the same note, but it kind of evoked that score in my head on first viewing.
Thank you for the video and the explanation, I am still perturbed by the scene now even more so than before, on first watch I simply found the music chosen to be simplistic (in a omg two of the most recognisable classical pieces that don't really have an interesting relationship, even using Mozart and Salieri would have made some sense despite being historically inaccurate) secondly wasn't real correspondence with the music written and the music heard (the internal logic of how the magic works also being inconsistent), now I find it stupid because instead of relating to this movie and saying something about its characters it is about external jokes and narratives a symptom one might attribute to the rest of the movie as well to an extent.
Love this breakdown, but gotta say, I'm not convinced the third bit is Night on Blad Mountain. To me, it sounds more like a metal guitar mashup of the 5th and Fugue. If you listen you can hear the 4 notes of the 5th done "metal speed" on top of the low D from Fugue. This would make sense as it represents the 2 pieces they're fighting with clashing together.
Danny Elfman hasn't really wowed me with his scores since _Terminator: Salvation_ and his score for _Josstice Legaue_ was the final nail in the coffin for me (I hated that he used his Batman theme for Batfleck, due to him being a completely different incarnation of the character). And, for the most part, Elfman's score for _Multiverse of Madness_ wasn't really all that it could be but it did have some good bits every now and then. And the music battle was genuinely inventive. P.S., Elfman actually only did the score for the first 2 Raimi _Spider-Man_ films, whereas _Spider-Man 3_ was composed by Christopher Young using themes from Danny Elfman. Because Elfman found his time working on _Spider-Man 2_ dreadful and Raimi hired Christopher Young due to the fact that most of the additional music for _Spider-Man 2_ (most notably, the train fight music) was done by him rather than Elfman.
I can see the concerns about Batfleck. It was nice as fan service tho. As for SM3, you're right! Thanks for the correction. I'm at least glad Raimi and Elfman seemed to have made up.
The Batman was released only two months before Dr Strange tho, would Danny Elfman even have heard the new Batman theme when working on this score? I think the Fantasia connection seems more a lot more plausible or just the popularity of those two pieces of music given Feige’s request.
Great question! Actually the music battle was the result of reshoots late in the production, which means that Elfman scored that scene only a few weeks before it was out in theaters. So yes, I do think he could've heard The Batman score. But of course, I can't confirm it.
I have to say that for me this whole movie and particularly this scene were just hilarious. I wonder if you just made all the major third stuff up or was Elfman actually thinking of that
Good Strange: *attacks with Beethoven's 5th* Bad Strange: *counters with Bach's Toccata* Good Strange: *attacks again with Beethoven* Bad Strange: Beethoven again ?? Really ?? Good Strange: This time am using the 9th. Bad Strange: Damn.
There was a moment from the battle that I thought sounded like phantom of the opera. I thought that was funny because Strange is obsessed with a woman named Christine.
Amazing music research. When you pointed the D chord "resolving" to a Bb I was confused because the Bb was really high and I believed to be a minor 6th or #5 that would destabilize the harmony. Amazing how you connected the composers personalities, disney legacy and classical refferences. Yet, kind of a let down the chairmen decided to stick to the most overplayed classical pieces. Maybe we needed a hero to edit the audio for a real harmony battle as in "lauching chromatic dissonant clusters at Strange, who rearranges the voicings and fires a D∆#11 back to Sinister, who defends with a Esus4 chord and delivers a Eb7(b9b13)" or something
that scene made no sense to me - I normally come here because I think something's awesome or terrible and you're great at explaining why. Your explanation here helped with that - hey this isn't important to Strange or the movie or even the universe and the director didn't have something specific in mind. The director wanted a scene and the composer was the one left to fill in the blanks on a project he'd not been involved in and obviously wasn't passionate about.
Additional Beethoven and Strange connection: both are Geniuses that lost the seemingly most important trait (listening, dexterity) for their genius, only to transcend that limitation to realize magical ability.
Hey man, do you have any interest in talking about Pasek and Paul's work? Cuz a lot of their songs that I've heard so far left me with a not-as-good-as-people-say feeling. Okay, This is Me and The Other Side are quite good, but none of the other ones from The Greatest Showman are exceptional, in my opinion, and I'd like to know why (or, if I'm wrong, why am I).
If you haven't already, have you done a video about why Numb by Linkin Park is "A Major or possibly F# minor?" My music theory doesn't really go past B E A D G C F. So what's up with this A Major, "possibly" F# minor??
If I understand your question, musical keys sometimes do have associations with different feelings for different composers. I think in general F# minor can be a very intense and passionate key, but my guess is that Linkin Park would choose the key that is either easier to play on their instruments or easier for the lead vocal to sing or both. Many rock songs tend to be in G, D, A, or E because it matches how guitars are usually tuned. And F#minor is just the relative minor of A major, meaning it's the same key but with F# as the main note instead of A. Hope that helps.
I can't get on board with an alternate theory to an executive saying "make the film dumber because that's my conception of the audience." That's basically the whole downfall of cinema and is thus overwhelmingly probable. (This video is anchored on finding major thirds, which of course are everywhere. It's like numerology)
Finding connections between different musical themes throughout history can also be called musicology. Whether you find my argument convincing or not is another story.
@@HowardHoMusic Connecting themes sounds like a real thing, but if the "theme" is merely a common interval it can't help but be as fallacious as spinning up a conspiracy around the number 33
Hey, wanna give a tiny positive criticism, so firstly clarifying, I love your videos, they're pretty interesting and well thought out and captivating. That being said, you really need to work on your thumbnails please. Your thumbnails are not what I would want to click or even read if it shows up in my UA-cam feed. I watch your videos, because I KNOW they are going to be good. I KNOW about you. But if I didn't, I wouldn't even watch you. And that hurts because I guess the CTR is being bottlenecked through the not good enough thumbnails. I would like for you to grow that's why I'm saying it. I'm not a designer so I can't pinpoint the issue, it's a bit messy? Idk. But I can tell you, you hit the nail with the Surface Pressure thumbnail, that's the video I found you from and that's the kind of thumbnail that will get my attention in this infinite feed. Because it's good looking, not messy, and pretty. Idk, I'm not a designer or anything. Just from an audience pov.
If I had to guess why you didn't feel drawn to this thumbnail as much as the Surface Pressure one (also how I found this channel), it's probably the second, smaller figure in the bottom left, the music page, and the switch from displaying part of the title in the thumbnail to a more vague hint at what's going on. Surface Pressure's concept and thumbnail are super sleek and simple. I look at the thumbnail. I process, _Luisa, I know that character, Surface Pressure, I know that song, How it works, okay I wanna know how that song works, read title (How Surface Pressure Works And Why's It So Catchy), damn yes it IS catchy, I'm interested,_ and click through with the intent of Finding Out What Makes Surface Pressure So Catchy. This thumbnail is trying to tell me more, give me more clues, but they're not as easy to parse. There's a person in the bottom left--Danny Elfman?--But as a 'face', he's not instantly identifiable, especially with the additional eye. There's music, but it could be a regular music sheet for the score or a screen cap from the movie's Battle Sheets or whatever. So here my mind goes: _Dr Strange, know him, there's another guy...who is that?, he's got another eye, was he a bad guy in the movie?, nope think it was just the Dopple Strange guy with the extra eye, looks Photoshopped in anyway, maybe it's the guy making the video?.... read text "Decoded", still not telling me who that mystery guy is, there's an arrow, follow to music sheet, the music is decoded? Maybe they play it like those "nobody ever animates pianos correctly" videos? Is it a code? Is it an Easter Egg? I don't remember a code, check the title (How The Music Battle In Dr Strange Works), oh I remember the music battle, but still not telling me who dude is, is it going to be about musicality or battle mechanics?,_ clicked through anyways because I've enjoyed the channel before, immediately in comments I see Elfman mentioned, _ohhhhhh is that Elfman? Not sure I've ever seen him. Okay_ and the most pressing question from thumbnail impression was answered via the comments before I've finished the ad. 😬 Part of the ease of the first example is just how...prevalent Encanto is in the mainstream. Dr Strange can't really compete with how much that movie and those characters and those songs were EVERYWHERE, for SO LONG, so a 1:1 comparison is not gonna work. In addition, I think the concept of this video is a lot more complicated than the Encanto one, needs more setup to get viewers ready to understand. And I am not a designer, nor do I know the ins and outs of thumbnail optimization. I know there are trends and the algorithm can be ruthless and fickle, but I do not create, only consume. 🤷🏼♀️ However, I have worked very briefly in copywriting (ages ago) and a good way to think about "hooks" is they're like that elevator speech people talk about in business. Gotta tell them _what they want,_ tell them _you've got it,_ and you gotta do it fast. This thumbnail and title try to tell me a lot of things, but because I've only watched the movie once and don't know a ton about soundtracks/music theory/etc, I don't know how to parse those clues and I come into the video asking questions that aren't as relevant. Think about what question(s) the video answers and prime the viewer to come in asking That Question, so they'll a) want to stick around to find the answer and b) already be thinking about what it might be (engaged).
Watched through the video (paused it to think through the thumbnail question with a "clean eye" as soon as I saw the comment while waiting for my ads to clear, damn you ADHD brain) and wanted to follow up with A) it WAS Danny Elfman! B ) Loved it! C) Need to send this to my husband who actually gets music theory stuff because I know he'll get a kick out of it D) Hmm. The question/answer/theory/proof in the video is NOT what I expected at all even after an extra 15 mins poking through the thumbnail. (And it's way better.) If it were me maybe I'd try something along the lines of "Is there a second musical battle in Dr Strange?" or "Did Danny Elfman hide his own musical battle within the score?" With Danny Elfman's name in the thumbnail text or title, could totally get away with putting his 3eyed head in the thumbnail...maybe clip it and superimpose over a battle scene...
@@bsidethebox loved your comments. They were way more precise than my 'messy'. And yes, I agree with all you said. But would like to add one more thing, again in my vague way. You seem more knowledgeable in this aspect, so I hope you get what I mean, I'll try to be as less vague as possible, but I'm just not knowledgeable enough. What you mentioned is something I'll notice after the first look. But if this video was on my normal feed instead of my subscription feed, I might have skipped even observing a lot about it. The thumbnail is a bit 'noisy'. The surface pressure has a cleaner look. 4 words - How Surface Pressure Works. 2 words in pinkish shade, with not a lot of shadow, complementing the purplish background. 2 words in yellow, specifically "Surface Pressure" contrasting with the theme to catch attention, rightfully so as it is the main reason anyone would click on the video. Louisa on the side, just complementing whole thing without battling for attention as it's more subtle colours and lesser contrast. She's smoothly fitting with everything. Also the font of that thumbnail looks more easy and fits with the animation as well. This has a noisy look. 1 Word - Decoded, in bright yellow. Trying to gather my attention. The font is not good, as this font is 'stylish' or 'sleek', don't fit well in a UA-cam video. UA-cam video needs for 'comfortable' fonts mostly. (I might be wrong on my last statement. But I know the font here doesn't do justice atleast). Then there's Huge Dr. Strange right in the middle, trying to battle for my attention as well. Also, again Dr. Strange here is more stern and sleek looking, like the font, which gives my subconscious mind vibes to feel less at ease. As it is at the centre and staring at me, my subconscious might take it as a threat and try to avoid it atleast not feel good with it. There's this guy(elfman) in just casual clothes and contrasting colours on the left... Who is he? Why's he here? Again as it's contrasting as well, so I figure he's important, but I don't even care about him and neither does he fit to the theme, so I'm like meh... Then again there's this arrow pointing to some random thing that I don't even remember about. Overall it gives the vibe of a not so professional UA-cam channel who makes videos like "75 things you missed in Spiderman No Way Home". I don't even realise this thumbnail has anything to do with music. Also there are 4 different things battling against each other fighting for my attention. None of the 4 are related as to build a theme. It's just 4 different things. I'm not even clear what to expect off of this. For example, in any Mr. Beast video, there's a cleaner background, with him and max 1 thing else garnering attention. But both of them are common enough, to not feel off. Also both look comfortable. The font there's more comfortable and simple. Same goes for Ryan Trahan. Another channel I watch but maybe you won't, Game Theory. Just look at his thumbnails once. He makes videos on things I'm sure any random person might not even have a clue about. (There's also film and food theory which are about more common things, but I chose Game specifically for unknowness of indie games). Still the thumbnails are interesting. There's 1-3 characters, which all are together as a collective group. So they don't fight against each other for attention, they fight together. There's one background. And one text at a place that's more clean instead of overlap like Dr. Strange and Decoded. The text is easy to understand "They will kill you". "He's not the one" or things like this. Any person can understand what its about. So in all these there are only 2 things needing attention, 1 image, 1 text. And they both complement each other instead of battle. Just like Surface Pressure. Another mention Tom Scott, simple generic clean background related to video, a guy on left end, a white text on red box on right end. Clean simple. Also the background is less noisy, as it is blurred out and less saturated and bright, so to be background. Here the space between Dr. Strange and that arrow is as bright as rest of the image, which doesn't give background vibes but rather foreground vibes. Less is more. Here there are just a LOT of things fighting against each other.
@@bsidethebox if I were to make a thumbnail for this video. It'd be, a still of Dr. strange on left end, side look, looking like he's in fighting mode( he's ready for a battle, hands in air pointing towards right). An evil strange looking at me with evil smile, at right end. Just giving his vibes, the villain. Both of them not too bright to battle for attention, just enough to be in foreground. Not a lot of shadows around either. The background would be of a still from movie, of that one note in air which caused the defeat. Blurred completely so as I can easily recognise it but I'm not attentive about it, just a little less blur at the orange note, which is much more recognisable but still in the background, but blurred and lesser brightness. And a text like "This note made all the difference" or "The note that defeated him" or "Why this note is important" or "Why the music battle works". Something like this....
I thought this scene was the worst one in the movie... and that's saying a lot, since there were few good scenes (the last act was pretty good, I must admit). My first thought when seeing this fight was, "Oh geez... this is so Disney".
Yes of course I noticed and love that part, but the music weapons as I remember them were to throw actual knives as they played the music. The landlady though is just using her voice or sound itself, which is why I used her as the example.
Glad to know I’m not the only one who felt that sounded like Night on Bald Mountain and just to add to the Fantasia theory, the main face of Fantasia is none other than “Sorcerer Mickey” and considering Strange is/was the Sorcerer supreme, I’m 99% that’s not coincidental!
YES! I love it when more dots are connected!
Sorcerer Mickey joining the MCU confirmed!
@@monkeyrun If that's the case, could Mickey invite Dr Strange to come over for a sleepover at Sora's house? Then he could have a friendly game of Smash, while all the characters get ready to jump out and go 'Boogiedeboo!' at him.
Chernabog is a marvel character in the comics
The music battle is by far one of the more creative fights in the MCU.
Agreed.
The first time I watched it, the only thing I could think was that the Dumbledore vs Grindelwald fight we're gonna get in Fantastic Beasts won't even remotely compare.
Should’ve lasted longer
yeah it was hands down one of my favorite MCU battles (and movie battles in general) of all time!!!
Agreed
I loved this in the theater. Not going to lie after this scene ended, my first thought was I need Howard Ho to tell me how this works. Way to deliver!
Can't go wrong with either of those two composers! In case you're interested, I had mentioned Giacchino briefly in my video on Mulan: ua-cam.com/video/roJBJ7zxAbw/v-deo.html
I think the reason they used those melodies was that not only are they the most popular classical pieces but both of them have a dark and sinister undertone. Beethoven's 5th was said to be the melody of Death knocking at the door while Toccata and Fugue is the song used during Halloween usually played by a dark figure at an organ to symbolize their evilness.
For sure, they both have a sinister quality built into them.
Elfman should confirm this.
Even if he didn't plan it out he would seem like the smartest composer alive
I'd love to hear what Elfman has to say!
@@HowardHoMusic Me too. Why don't you ask him? Maybe you're lucky enough to receive an answer. (Miracles can happen you know.) Wanna try?
People don’t talk about enough how genius this scene was.
This is one of my favorite fights in the MCU. Maybe it's because I'm a huge fan of Doc Strange as a character but this specific scene was just a oh damn I love this almost instantly.
I would really LOVE to see that original score full of quotes to classical music!!
💯
All I know is that when I first watched this I thought that in this universe they didn’t fight with typical magic symbols but with music notes instead. Thought it was a fun twist. Great analysis!
That is not a bad take actually - if music there is magic maybe our Strange's magic is actually music somewhere? Like, play with this idea of magic being a language of the universe that all can understand even if they don't actually know what is going on theoretically.
Omg i got chills! This just made my day. Ive talked about them working on each others franchises and people thinks im crazy, glad to know im not alone out there. Keep up the great work!! More Elfman and Giacchino videos would be lovely. Thank you :)
Am I the only one who thought the music duel was a kind of letdown? Like sure, it's creative to have them use music notes, but they just lob them against each other just like any other projectiles/beams that they usually do. Consider the creativity in the Dr Strange/Spiderman fight in No Way Home, with Peter using math to outsmart Stephen in his own domain. Why couldn't a "musical duel" have used more actual music theory? Like, one of them casting a spell that requires harmony, the other interrupts with dissonance, only for the first one to reharmonize it.
Edit: this is of course entirely tangential to the point of your video, which is great. Keep it up!
I would love to see what you're describing in a film!
that was exactly how i felt while watching the scene
@@HowardHoMusic Well, if the director wanted to consult someone on how to make a musical duel be both understandable to the public and theoretically genius, we both know who to call
It might be because they didn't want to increase the runtime due to how much is already in the movie.
8:22 Giacchino actually composed the entire first MCU Spidey trilogy just like Elfman composed the entire rami Spidey trilogy
Yes he did!
@@HowardHoMusic Oh wait so u did know xD in that case i don’t think u realized that i just meant to point this out cuz you forgot to put the third film on the MCU spidey side to make it a more poetically pleasing comparison of trilogy to trilogy
Sooo good! My inner music nerd, Marvel & DC nerd, and Disney nerd had their own incursion, squeeling out loud and tearing up a bit at the nuanced, meta, beauty of it all!
I'm always happy to find more objective review of media discovery going on here on UA-cam. It gives the platform some real substance; a reason to watch videos.
Howard, you’ve truly outdone yourself with this masterpiece 👏🏽 👏🏽 👏🏽 The connections you draw here are insanely nuanced, and I have such a greater appreciation for this moment now
I couldn't say this better!!
Interesting video.
When I first saw the music battle, I questioned how the magic worked mechanically. Like, what was actually happening? Was Strange shaping energy to the shape of the musical notes and firing them at his foe? Why would he do that? Was the music being played source or score? If it was source, why would Strange assign sound to the energy note? I questioned a lot of the logic there.
This made my day! The music in the film was my fave Marvel score so far. I like how they use music to show the turning point in the plot. The only place they use a psychedelic funk guitar fill in the scene where Strange decided to dream walk for the first time.
Haha...that funk guitar was so retro cool!
I watch these and I’m super amazed. I’m left wondering if this really was so amazing and I absolutely missed that or you overthought it. Hopefully the former.
To be honest, I wasn’t really blown away by the music battle or by Danny Elfman’s score in this film. But your analysis gives me a new perspective that I can at least appreciate.
Also, just as an FYI: Giacchino is pronounced as juh-key-no.
Oh, noted! LOL...all these years I've been saying it wrong.
This went WAY deeper than i originally expected, and I loved every second of it!
The scene felt like a swing and a miss to me personally, but I really, really love hearing about the connections that you found in this. whether it's intentional or not, it's still all very much THERE, baked into our cultural consciousness, and gives the scene something that we still feel, as viewers, whether we can actually explain it or not. thank YOU for explaining it (and honestly this sums up how I feel about your whole channel, like you're digging up all these gems of meaning that we can't always find or explain when we do). Love it.
Wow, I appreciate this so much! And hey, I don't really mind if people dislike the movie or the scene. I'm just hoping to take people on a musical ride, and I'm glad you joined me!
This is a brilliantly done video!! Thank you!
As a pianist, I love pausing scenes with sheet music in a show/movie and I didn’t clock the “Dr. Strange Theme!” Well done!! 👏🏻😁🎶
SSSHHHIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTT.
Lin never disappoints.
Uh I mean, Howard Ho🥰🥰
This made me cry for some reasons. Thank you for this video.. you're a legend!
That note comes across so familiar next to hearing it in Batman or MCU. It brings back some memories of the sound in Narnia.
To be honest, as much as I loved how creative this fight was, I was a little disappointed since I was expecting something more action like. This video however changed my mind and now I appreciate this scene much more ✨
11:57 woww.. that's very deep 😳😳😳
that scene in the movie left me very confused, so thank you for your take on it! Also impeccable editing as always
And... is it just me or is that harp note not also sound like the opening note of the Star Trek theme (original series), which Giacchino scored the reboot movies. Maybe it's not the same note, but it kind of evoked that score in my head on first viewing.
OH yes, I can hear that!
I appreciate your for doing this. It was my favorite scene in thr movie.
"Once again, what started as a duel ended in a chill jam sesh"
Thank you for this video and explanation. I love a good commentary that tells into the minutia and technical details.
Really a wonderful tip of the hat between two composers
Thank you for the video and the explanation, I am still perturbed by the scene now even more so than before, on first watch I simply found the music chosen to be simplistic (in a omg two of the most recognisable classical pieces that don't really have an interesting relationship, even using Mozart and Salieri would have made some sense despite being historically inaccurate) secondly wasn't real correspondence with the music written and the music heard (the internal logic of how the magic works also being inconsistent), now I find it stupid because instead of relating to this movie and saying something about its characters it is about external jokes and narratives a symptom one might attribute to the rest of the movie as well to an extent.
At the beginning I thought this was a stretch. By the end I'm 💯💯💯 agree with your analysis. 🤯🤩🤩🤩🤩
I appreciate you sticking with it to the end! Thanks!
I remember sitting in the theater assuming this channel was explain this fight to me one day. Glad I was right!
That was SOOOOO worth watching!
I have watched too much of Sideways' content, I was sure you were going to say the sheet music used was from the "Erlkonig" xD
LOL...I will throw in an Erkonig reference next time!
Love this breakdown, but gotta say, I'm not convinced the third bit is Night on Blad Mountain. To me, it sounds more like a metal guitar mashup of the 5th and Fugue. If you listen you can hear the 4 notes of the 5th done "metal speed" on top of the low D from Fugue. This would make sense as it represents the 2 pieces they're fighting with clashing together.
LOL...that's a cool way of interpreting it too!
I needed someone to make this video, and I am glad it's you!
Danny Elfman hasn't really wowed me with his scores since _Terminator: Salvation_ and his score for _Josstice Legaue_ was the final nail in the coffin for me (I hated that he used his Batman theme for Batfleck, due to him being a completely different incarnation of the character). And, for the most part, Elfman's score for _Multiverse of Madness_ wasn't really all that it could be but it did have some good bits every now and then. And the music battle was genuinely inventive.
P.S., Elfman actually only did the score for the first 2 Raimi _Spider-Man_ films, whereas _Spider-Man 3_ was composed by Christopher Young using themes from Danny Elfman. Because Elfman found his time working on _Spider-Man 2_ dreadful and Raimi hired Christopher Young due to the fact that most of the additional music for _Spider-Man 2_ (most notably, the train fight music) was done by him rather than Elfman.
I can see the concerns about Batfleck. It was nice as fan service tho.
As for SM3, you're right! Thanks for the correction. I'm at least glad Raimi and Elfman seemed to have made up.
The Batman was released only two months before Dr Strange tho, would Danny Elfman even have heard the new Batman theme when working on this score? I think the Fantasia connection seems more a lot more plausible or just the popularity of those two pieces of music given Feige’s request.
Great question! Actually the music battle was the result of reshoots late in the production, which means that Elfman scored that scene only a few weeks before it was out in theaters. So yes, I do think he could've heard The Batman score. But of course, I can't confirm it.
Howard Ho successfully gives so much more meaning to the music battle scene
I have to say that for me this whole movie and particularly this scene were just hilarious.
I wonder if you just made all the major third stuff up or was Elfman actually thinking of that
Wait so the Dr strange animator took a (probably unlicensed) musescore arrangement of the first Dr strang for the closeup? That's hilarious!
LOL...did I just get an animator in trouble?
The video I've been waiting 😍😍😍
Dude this is awesome!
As usual, you completely blew my mind
Daffy vs. Donald in WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT is still tremendous
LOL..true!
I love how this analysis plays out exactly like an Illuminati conspiracy video
Mwhahaha
Good Strange: *attacks with Beethoven's 5th*
Bad Strange: *counters with Bach's Toccata*
Good Strange: *attacks again with Beethoven*
Bad Strange: Beethoven again ?? Really ??
Good Strange: This time am using the 9th.
Bad Strange: Damn.
This is the nerdiest video ever and I'm here for it
This makes me appreciate the musical fight so much more now!
Lmao this is the most convoluted yet most suitable explanation to everything.
😆
Wish the movie was 2 hours longer
This Strange vs Strange battle rivals the fight he had against Thanos and is just as visually stunning.
So basically... When in doubt, bring The ♭atman out! 🤣 - Excellent video, man.
What a sharp comment!
What a bright idea
Thats a really nice video
Your research is insane
There was a moment from the battle that I thought sounded like phantom of the opera. I thought that was funny because Strange is obsessed with a woman named Christine.
I thought it my favorite but of a decent MCU flick that occasionally let Sam direct.
I'm really sad we didn't get the variety of classical music. Might've been slightly more interesting.
I think it would be fascinating to hear Elfman's original version. I wonder if I could've done even more analysis on it!
I was wondering why The Batman cord progression sounded so familiar.
8:27 actually he scored all three of the recent spider man films or the home trilogy
Good correction. Thanks!
Ahhhh I think I would have appreciated Danny Elfman's original version better...I actually felt like I wanted more references
I hope they release Elfman's original someday.
When I saw this in theaters, I assumed it worked just because it was a deceptive cadence. But I like your theory better!
You just blew my mind.
So I guess this is the closest we’ll probably get to a Justice League and Avengers crossover in live action cinema
great great great great great great great great video!!!!
BRAVO! from a musical know nothing! That was fascinating! 😀
Amazing music research. When you pointed the D chord "resolving" to a Bb I was confused because the Bb was really high and I believed to be a minor 6th or #5 that would destabilize the harmony. Amazing how you connected the composers personalities, disney legacy and classical refferences. Yet, kind of a let down the chairmen decided to stick to the most overplayed classical pieces. Maybe we needed a hero to edit the audio for a real harmony battle as in "lauching chromatic dissonant clusters at Strange, who rearranges the voicings and fires a D∆#11 back to Sinister, who defends with a Esus4 chord and delivers a Eb7(b9b13)" or something
Yes! Or we could hear Elfman's original version with lots of classical pieces before it was reduced to just two pieces!
Just found u and so glad
Thank You
What an awesome research!!!!
Here I thought giacchino only did marvel stuff
I was prwparing myself before watching MoM but yeah I really wanted to watch this so I am more than ready now
this is wild, I love it! 💀
Among all Ho’s theories, this is the Strangest
It's what the Doctor ordered!
so... is that the DC/Marvel crossover people have been predicting? it happened and most people didnt even notice, and even caused a mini incursion
LOL...anything bigger and it might cause an actual universe-sized incursion!
that scene made no sense to me - I normally come here because I think something's awesome or terrible and you're great at explaining why. Your explanation here helped with that - hey this isn't important to Strange or the movie or even the universe and the director didn't have something specific in mind. The director wanted a scene and the composer was the one left to fill in the blanks on a project he'd not been involved in and obviously wasn't passionate about.
Interesting takeaway. I'm glad the video gave you that clarity.
Additional Beethoven and Strange connection: both are Geniuses that lost the seemingly most important trait (listening, dexterity) for their genius, only to transcend that limitation to realize magical ability.
I felt like the harp note was a nod to the Wandavision theme.
So disney made them do the two pieces
Hey man, do you have any interest in talking about Pasek and Paul's work? Cuz a lot of their songs that I've heard so far left me with a not-as-good-as-people-say feeling. Okay, This is Me and The Other Side are quite good, but none of the other ones from The Greatest Showman are exceptional, in my opinion, and I'd like to know why (or, if I'm wrong, why am I).
Wait... Bethoven's Theme is GGEb... Giacchino, Giacchino, Elfman.
Love it!
@@HowardHoMusic I'm not sure if Elfman did it on purpose, but I thought it was a curious fact!
If you haven't already, have you done a video about why Numb by Linkin Park is "A Major or possibly F# minor?" My music theory doesn't really go past B E A D G C F. So what's up with this A Major, "possibly" F# minor??
If I understand your question, musical keys sometimes do have associations with different feelings for different composers. I think in general F# minor can be a very intense and passionate key, but my guess is that Linkin Park would choose the key that is either easier to play on their instruments or easier for the lead vocal to sing or both. Many rock songs tend to be in G, D, A, or E because it matches how guitars are usually tuned. And F#minor is just the relative minor of A major, meaning it's the same key but with F# as the main note instead of A. Hope that helps.
Can you do analysis on Genesis by Christophe Beck?
I can't get on board with an alternate theory to an executive saying "make the film dumber because that's my conception of the audience." That's basically the whole downfall of cinema and is thus overwhelmingly probable.
(This video is anchored on finding major thirds, which of course are everywhere. It's like numerology)
Finding connections between different musical themes throughout history can also be called musicology. Whether you find my argument convincing or not is another story.
@@HowardHoMusic Connecting themes sounds like a real thing, but if the "theme" is merely a common interval it can't help but be as fallacious as spinning up a conspiracy around the number 33
Hey, wanna give a tiny positive criticism, so firstly clarifying, I love your videos, they're pretty interesting and well thought out and captivating.
That being said, you really need to work on your thumbnails please. Your thumbnails are not what I would want to click or even read if it shows up in my UA-cam feed.
I watch your videos, because I KNOW they are going to be good. I KNOW about you. But if I didn't, I wouldn't even watch you. And that hurts because I guess the CTR is being bottlenecked through the not good enough thumbnails. I would like for you to grow that's why I'm saying it.
I'm not a designer so I can't pinpoint the issue, it's a bit messy? Idk. But I can tell you, you hit the nail with the Surface Pressure thumbnail, that's the video I found you from and that's the kind of thumbnail that will get my attention in this infinite feed. Because it's good looking, not messy, and pretty. Idk, I'm not a designer or anything. Just from an audience pov.
I appreciate that feedback! I too feel like I could improve my thumbnails, and what you said is very helpful. Thanks!
If I had to guess why you didn't feel drawn to this thumbnail as much as the Surface Pressure one (also how I found this channel), it's probably the second, smaller figure in the bottom left, the music page, and the switch from displaying part of the title in the thumbnail to a more vague hint at what's going on.
Surface Pressure's concept and thumbnail are super sleek and simple. I look at the thumbnail. I process, _Luisa, I know that character, Surface Pressure, I know that song, How it works, okay I wanna know how that song works, read title (How Surface Pressure Works And Why's It So Catchy), damn yes it IS catchy, I'm interested,_ and click through with the intent of Finding Out What Makes Surface Pressure So Catchy.
This thumbnail is trying to tell me more, give me more clues, but they're not as easy to parse. There's a person in the bottom left--Danny Elfman?--But as a 'face', he's not instantly identifiable, especially with the additional eye. There's music, but it could be a regular music sheet for the score or a screen cap from the movie's Battle Sheets or whatever. So here my mind goes: _Dr Strange, know him, there's another guy...who is that?, he's got another eye, was he a bad guy in the movie?, nope think it was just the Dopple Strange guy with the extra eye, looks Photoshopped in anyway, maybe it's the guy making the video?.... read text "Decoded", still not telling me who that mystery guy is, there's an arrow, follow to music sheet, the music is decoded? Maybe they play it like those "nobody ever animates pianos correctly" videos? Is it a code? Is it an Easter Egg? I don't remember a code, check the title (How The Music Battle In Dr Strange Works), oh I remember the music battle, but still not telling me who dude is, is it going to be about musicality or battle mechanics?,_ clicked through anyways because I've enjoyed the channel before, immediately in comments I see Elfman mentioned, _ohhhhhh is that Elfman? Not sure I've ever seen him. Okay_ and the most pressing question from thumbnail impression was answered via the comments before I've finished the ad. 😬
Part of the ease of the first example is just how...prevalent Encanto is in the mainstream. Dr Strange can't really compete with how much that movie and those characters and those songs were EVERYWHERE, for SO LONG, so a 1:1 comparison is not gonna work. In addition, I think the concept of this video is a lot more complicated than the Encanto one, needs more setup to get viewers ready to understand.
And I am not a designer, nor do I know the ins and outs of thumbnail optimization. I know there are trends and the algorithm can be ruthless and fickle, but I do not create, only consume. 🤷🏼♀️ However, I have worked very briefly in copywriting (ages ago) and a good way to think about "hooks" is they're like that elevator speech people talk about in business. Gotta tell them _what they want,_ tell them _you've got it,_ and you gotta do it fast. This thumbnail and title try to tell me a lot of things, but because I've only watched the movie once and don't know a ton about soundtracks/music theory/etc, I don't know how to parse those clues and I come into the video asking questions that aren't as relevant. Think about what question(s) the video answers and prime the viewer to come in asking That Question, so they'll a) want to stick around to find the answer and b) already be thinking about what it might be (engaged).
Watched through the video (paused it to think through the thumbnail question with a "clean eye" as soon as I saw the comment while waiting for my ads to clear, damn you ADHD brain) and wanted to follow up with
A) it WAS Danny Elfman!
B ) Loved it!
C) Need to send this to my husband who actually gets music theory stuff because I know he'll get a kick out of it
D) Hmm. The question/answer/theory/proof in the video is NOT what I expected at all even after an extra 15 mins poking through the thumbnail. (And it's way better.)
If it were me maybe I'd try something along the lines of "Is there a second musical battle in Dr Strange?" or "Did Danny Elfman hide his own musical battle within the score?"
With Danny Elfman's name in the thumbnail text or title, could totally get away with putting his 3eyed head in the thumbnail...maybe clip it and superimpose over a battle scene...
@@bsidethebox loved your comments. They were way more precise than my 'messy'. And yes, I agree with all you said. But would like to add one more thing, again in my vague way. You seem more knowledgeable in this aspect, so I hope you get what I mean, I'll try to be as less vague as possible, but I'm just not knowledgeable enough.
What you mentioned is something I'll notice after the first look. But if this video was on my normal feed instead of my subscription feed, I might have skipped even observing a lot about it.
The thumbnail is a bit 'noisy'.
The surface pressure has a cleaner look.
4 words - How Surface Pressure Works.
2 words in pinkish shade, with not a lot of shadow, complementing the purplish background. 2 words in yellow, specifically "Surface Pressure" contrasting with the theme to catch attention, rightfully so as it is the main reason anyone would click on the video. Louisa on the side, just complementing whole thing without battling for attention as it's more subtle colours and lesser contrast. She's smoothly fitting with everything. Also the font of that thumbnail looks more easy and fits with the animation as well.
This has a noisy look.
1 Word - Decoded, in bright yellow. Trying to gather my attention. The font is not good, as this font is 'stylish' or 'sleek', don't fit well in a UA-cam video. UA-cam video needs for 'comfortable' fonts mostly. (I might be wrong on my last statement. But I know the font here doesn't do justice atleast).
Then there's Huge Dr. Strange right in the middle, trying to battle for my attention as well. Also, again Dr. Strange here is more stern and sleek looking, like the font, which gives my subconscious mind vibes to feel less at ease. As it is at the centre and staring at me, my subconscious might take it as a threat and try to avoid it atleast not feel good with it.
There's this guy(elfman) in just casual clothes and contrasting colours on the left... Who is he? Why's he here? Again as it's contrasting as well, so I figure he's important, but I don't even care about him and neither does he fit to the theme, so I'm like meh...
Then again there's this arrow pointing to some random thing that I don't even remember about.
Overall it gives the vibe of a not so professional UA-cam channel who makes videos like "75 things you missed in Spiderman No Way Home". I don't even realise this thumbnail has anything to do with music.
Also there are 4 different things battling against each other fighting for my attention. None of the 4 are related as to build a theme. It's just 4 different things. I'm not even clear what to expect off of this.
For example, in any Mr. Beast video, there's a cleaner background, with him and max 1 thing else garnering attention. But both of them are common enough, to not feel off. Also both look comfortable. The font there's more comfortable and simple.
Same goes for Ryan Trahan.
Another channel I watch but maybe you won't, Game Theory.
Just look at his thumbnails once.
He makes videos on things I'm sure any random person might not even have a clue about. (There's also film and food theory which are about more common things, but I chose Game specifically for unknowness of indie games).
Still the thumbnails are interesting. There's 1-3 characters, which all are together as a collective group. So they don't fight against each other for attention, they fight together. There's one background. And one text at a place that's more clean instead of overlap like Dr. Strange and Decoded. The text is easy to understand "They will kill you". "He's not the one" or things like this. Any person can understand what its about. So in all these there are only 2 things needing attention, 1 image, 1 text. And they both complement each other instead of battle. Just like Surface Pressure. Another mention Tom Scott, simple generic clean background related to video, a guy on left end, a white text on red box on right end. Clean simple.
Also the background is less noisy, as it is blurred out and less saturated and bright, so to be background. Here the space between Dr. Strange and that arrow is as bright as rest of the image, which doesn't give background vibes but rather foreground vibes.
Less is more. Here there are just a LOT of things fighting against each other.
@@bsidethebox if I were to make a thumbnail for this video.
It'd be, a still of Dr. strange on left end, side look, looking like he's in fighting mode( he's ready for a battle, hands in air pointing towards right). An evil strange looking at me with evil smile, at right end. Just giving his vibes, the villain. Both of them not too bright to battle for attention, just enough to be in foreground. Not a lot of shadows around either. The background would be of a still from movie, of that one note in air which caused the defeat. Blurred completely so as I can easily recognise it but I'm not attentive about it, just a little less blur at the orange note, which is much more recognisable but still in the background, but blurred and lesser brightness. And a text like "This note made all the difference" or "The note that defeated him" or "Why this note is important" or "Why the music battle works". Something like this....
A lot of people hate this scene. I loved it because of my musical background lol.
Either way, it gets a strong reaction from everyone!
I guess they were working with what they know... But cool assumptions.
When did the Sideways guy change his accent?
I wonder do you have perfect pitch?
Could do a little mermaid video
Oh yes, that's something I definitely will do.
I thought this scene was the worst one in the movie... and that's saying a lot, since there were few good scenes (the last act was pretty good, I must admit). My first thought when seeing this fight was, "Oh geez... this is so Disney".
Another fantasia-atic video - one might even call it A sharp video … ;)
LOL...now you're speaking my language!
Bor check kunfu movie there is music weapons used did u not notice!?
Yes of course I noticed and love that part, but the music weapons as I remember them were to throw actual knives as they played the music. The landlady though is just using her voice or sound itself, which is why I used her as the example.
💖
I swear these videos kill me, how can people put all these hidden messages in music...
Tin Foil hat time!!