Don't Follow the 180° Shutter Rule !
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- Don't follow this dumb rule -
Unless You understand why.
Some things don't get better if they get repeated over and over.
180° was a rule that was obsolete, when it was invented.
I’m sure Gerald Undone could explain this a lot better. But now You’re here. And maybe he can’t or would not want to. [...]
Well, what should I say, he just did: • Motion Blur, Shutter S...
And here's another very good (maybe the best) explanation to the shutter mechanics:
• CD / Shutter Speed
But it had been settled a lot earlier by a true genius of camera technologies:
Go check out Camera Conspiracies and tell him I sent You!
• The Shutter Speed Myth
Music by Andrew Applepie www.andrewapple... - / andrewapplepie
#filmmakingtutorials
I have been wondering about this for the past couple years, especially due to how much light you lose at higher shutter speeds. Going to do some experimenting this weekend and compare the look and "feel" of footage at different speeds. Thanks for posting this.
We use 25fps and 50fps in the UK because of the electricity system. UK has 50hertz electric system so filming at 25,50 or 100fps will stop the lights pulsating when we film anywhere where there are lights on.
25,50 and 100 are all day to edit together on the same time line. USA electricity system is 60 hertz so to stop flickering where there are lights, they film at 30, 60 and 120fps.
You can't mix 24, 25 and 30fps in the same time line as it is juddery as hell.
That's why we film in 25, 50 and 100fps in the UK and Europe to match the 50hertz electricity pulsating frequency.
I started off filming at 30 and 60fps as I was only filming outside but when I filmed interiors it was terrible. So I switched to using 25, 50 and 100 so that I could edit all the footage easily and keep it smooth.
Varying shutter speed is for controlling motion blur.
If you desire a standard motion blur of 180° at 30fps, then you need to keep that 180° rule for shooting at 60fps if you want to slow the footage and have *standardised* blur across both filmed pieces after slowing the 60fps to 30fps.
If not then the slowed-down 60fps motion has excessive blur:
If you used the same shutter speed 1/60 for 30 and 60fps equating to 180° and 360° respectively then when you slow your 60fps footage the same movement you see in 30fps has good looking motion blur, the 60fps footage which was capturing faster movement which now appears the same speed as that of the 30fps has an excessive blur.
Keep the rule if you need to film slow motion and need the blur to be consistent across both pieces of footage.
So, after seeing this video and the one by Gerald Undone - I seem to have learnt there are a lot of "IF's" to best determine what frame rate and shutter speed ...
IF you're planning to render to a 24fps timeline and want natural looking motion blur and know you aren't going to convert any footage to slo mo - then apply the 180 angle rule and shoot at 24fps @ 1/48.
IF your'e planning to render to higher fps eg 60 or 120 fps timelines and still want natural looking motion blur then shoot at 60 fps or 120fps then shoot at 60fps or 120fps with 360 angle ie 60fps @ 1/60s or 120fps @ 120/s
IF you want to deliberately create a mood for for action or fight scenes - then shoot use a 90 angle - irrespective of the timeline fps and the camera fps setting
IF you either definitely intend to apply slow mo to some or all of the footage and you want the slo mo footage to have a natural amount of motion blur (given the slowed down movement) then apply the 180 angle - so shoot at 48fps @ 1/96 or 60fps @ 1/125 or 120fps @ 1/250s
IF for creative reasons you want to apply slo mo to some footage but have the subject more blurred than strictly natural (to imply the object was moving even faster in real time) then you can apply the 360 angle eg shoot 60fps @ 1/60s and slow to 40% on a 24fps timeline for excessive blur
IF you want the option to apply slo mo to your footage but without excessive blur but the subject is static or very slow moving (eg when filmic slow push in or pan in interior real estate video) but you are struggling to get sufficient exposure in a dark interior (without using excessive ISO) when shooting at high fps - then you can "get away" with using a 360 rather than 180 angle eg shoot at say 60fps @ 1/60s 3200 iso , rather than 60fps @ 1/125s 6400 iso - as the exaggerated motion blur will not be evident on the static subject .... ..
So if all the above is more or less accurate - then I really learned something useful from these two videos. Thank you.
You saved my day. Was wondering too about this long established rule which makes not so much sense nowadays. I think you're pretty much on point here, keep up your great work!
I was looking for this on youtube, I was thinking “it’s impossible nobody thinks about this”. Subscribed.
I feel like there are a few misconceptions in this video. First of all, you shouldn’t shoot at 120fps if you know you aren’t going to slow it down. For example if you are delivering at 24fps and want non-slow motion footage, you shouldn’t shoot at a higher frame rate than 24fps. Secondly, the assumption that if you shoot with a 180 degree shutter at 120fps, ie with a 1/240th shutter speed, you won’t get any motion blur when you slow it down. Yes you will. But since you are slowing the footage down, the things moving in your footage will move slower, and therefore have less motion blur. But it will have a consistent amount of motion blur with other footage. As long as you stick with the 180 degree shutter rule, and play back things properly (ie 24fps is real time, 120fps is 5x slow motion etc), you will have consistent motion blur. And lastly, shooting with a shutter speed that is slower than your frame rate, there is no reason to shoot at that higher frame rate. If you shoot 120fps with a 1/60th shutter speed, you might as well shoot at 60fps, as you are exposing each frame for longer than the length of one frame.
Well, I agree to a certain extent. The reason I put this video out there is, that blindly following rules that one doesn't fully understand (like the results they cause) is a bad thing. I think the results and visual samples Gerad Undone go with his contraption (that I was too lazy to build) are a very good basis to decide wether you like slowed down 60p@1/60 more that 60p@1/125 ... A better basis for a decision than just some from my childhood days.
Great video, thanks. I stumbled across this while looking for information about the implications of not using the 180 rule. I have just upgraded from handycam to DSLR and found that at 30FPS and a shutter of 1/60th I could see the lights flickering when I replayed footage. Your video really got me thinking about "why we just follow what other people say". I'm now using 30FPS at 1/30th which has not only got rid of the strobing but also allowed me to significantly lower my ISO from around 600 to 100 and lengthen the focal length to around 50mm rather than 18mm which has greatly reduced the distortion around the outside of the image.
Very informative and I really enjoyed the presentation style. I'll be watching some of your other videos at some point. 👍👍👍
So what you said makes perfect sense. Anyone followinf 180 degree rule to shoot at 1/120 second for a 60fps, never got my subscription or respect. And that includes many so called high profile canera gurus.
I have DJI Phantom 3 Standard drone and I can't follow this rule because it has fixed aperture, so I can't get correct exposure. I prefer to follow it anyway 🎥📷📹🎬
Agree to some extent. Higher the shutter speed lesser the light passing thru the lense. I shoot lesser shutter speed at 60fps f/1.8, or f/2.8. Sony and canon lenses. Deoends what you shoot with these settings.
Would be very helpful to show examples. I've always followed the 180 rule but seeing on some jobs where I was an AC I've seen DoP's use 172.8
Did you ever find out why? Usually that's when shooting with 24.000fps and trying to avoid flicker from continuous lights running on 50Hz AC power
@@DollyRanch 60Hz AC Master Race!
@@xxxXXXCH04XXXxxx 230v Gods 😎
@@DollyRanch :O
Thanks man!
Haha... Smart!!! Great video ~ thanks!
It's all relative. The reason this is a problem for people is because there are too many options and people don't have experience or expertise with any one standard.
Yep. That's why I brought it up.
but how my footage will look like if shot with 120 fps and shuter at 50 ?
Well, it won't look good if you go over 360°. That would be 1/120 at 120fps.
@@philipp7pc it’s not a matter of ‘not looking good’. It’s a matter of not being physically possible. You can’t expose the frame for longer than the length of the frame itself, if that wasn’t completely obvious.
Yep, that was kinda ... obvious. ;]
That would be weird if I shoot timelapse every 1 second a shoot, then my frame rate would be 1/24th per second, with 180 rule I need set my shutter speed at 48 second they I can get the nature blur, lol
Think again. If you take one frame every second, its exposure time can't be longer than that second. In your case, the correct exposure time would be half a second. Playback frame rate is irrelevant.
Ugh, this is why peoples slo mo looks like mud. This is not a hot take, just a bad practice
WooooooooooW ... really amazing :)
liked and subscribed for sure
Welcome!
I agree completely, whatever fps you are shooting at, the shutter speed shouldn't change. 1/48 is great but I personally like 1/30 better..I feel like it looks closer to the reality.
Who's here from Gerald?
I am.
when I stopped following this stupid rule, I created the stupidest video I've ever seen, so if you don't want to create stupid videos, keep following this rule, it will always be your safe haven, congratulations to whoever created it!
I make stupid videos no matter what rule I follow. ;]
Great work! I agree with you!
Yeah you are right, with higher fps this rule doesnt make much sense. I think it was just considered that 180 shutter angle looks cinematic because 24fps and 1/48 shutter speed looked good(or most natural) on film so it was agreed that thats the rule you should follow. Many years ago nobody was thinking about the year 2020 when games, or TVs are using 60fps and even consumer cameras can shoot 120 or even 240fps.... If you think about it from a photography perspective, like me, I started with photography first, then you know what kind of shutter speed will give you which motion blur effect. People should really think and experiment more and forget old rules...
Yep, when I learned to handle a 35mm all the references we learned were photography basics. Like the exposure times that gave nice or not so nice motion blur.
Some times I would have loved to have 360° on a 35mm. ;]
No, he is not right. If you shoot high frame rates for slow motion, the 180 degree rule should still be respected. Otherwise you will over-blur objects relative to how fast they move across the frame.
@@BillRey but if you shoot 240fps you obviously cant shoot 1/48 of a second. So you will need to shoot atleast 1/240. If you want to follow the rule then 1/480. Which wont give you motion blur because 1/480 exposure time is too quick. And doesnt produce motion blur.
@@palosh.tricks no. It will give you CORRECT motion blur. It’s not about the MOST blur, it’s about the correct blur relative to the movements. If you shoot a bullet at that frame rate with 180 shutter, the bullet will still be blurry, simply because it moves across the screen quickly enough, and will be blurred correctly relative to the movement. That’s the important part.
Guys, the 180° rule states an exponential relation. At a certain point it doesn't make sense. But we're not here to say it's wrong. It's something to think about and deal with - not blindly follow.
Love what you are saying in your videos! Keeping it real, and talking sense, where most simply repeat ‘common sense rules’...
Welcome. Most times common sense rules, the other times somebody on UA-cam will have an answer. ;]
Nope. Unless you shoot as an amateur and not professionally. There is a reason professional cinema cameras don't have shutter speed but shutter angles. Rethink
@26alexxkidd What he’s saying is that 180 degrees works with 24 frames and 30 frames but as you go higher in frames you should use 360 degrees. Like if you’re recording with 60 frames your shutter angle should be 360 degrees or (1/60) the same as frame rate.Try it for yourself and you’ll see that it looks so much better and more natural before you go bashing on this guy. It is the truth. Also the reason cinema cameras use shutter angle is because those boomers are used to it and it is old tech. Shutter speed is way more precise and accurate and new tech.
Yep. That's exactly it. ;]
@@Thek1Ly no. The 180 degree shutter angle is to keep natural smooth motion, and should absolutely be respected for slow motion too. Since the motion is slowed, so should the motion blur.
@@BillRey This is true for slow motion if you want to maintain the same motion blur, but may be you want more motion blur as an artistic choice, It gives the illusion of a faster motion, The other scenario is if you want to deliver 60fps content it looks much natural if you use a 360 degree shutter angle. 60fps videos at 1/120 played at 60fps looks terrible in my opinion they lack motion blur and look weird. You can brake the rule but always with a purpose.
@@dlarva77 as an artistic choice you can do whatever you want. The discussion here is about how to get natural smooth motion with the correct amount of motion blur.
Thanks for the enlightenment. I always struggled with the concept because it only works in certain situations. And if the environment isn't right throw it out the window, because in the long-run it doesn't matter.
Well, it’s a very old rule. Too old.
Thanks for watching.
U left me mind blown and confused about just how many ytb videos are telling us about the rule WHY WHY WHY
Because it's THE RULE. unless you film as an amateur. Professional work MUST and ALWAYS follows 180
OK Philip say : Dont follow 180degree rule.Ok we will that ! All Hollywood sector use it but philip say dont follow ! If Philip say it than is ok !!!
Thanks. Finally someone who understands what I'm talking about. Don't follow the old rule! Blindly follow the new rule now!
(Next week I'll declare the 97° rule. Stay tuned.)
nice exposure yes yes
360° rule man