American VS British WWII Bombing Tactics - Which Was Better?
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- Опубліковано 8 лют 2025
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Learn how the British RAF and American US Army Air Force differed in their approaches, with the British favoring nighttime raids and the Americans conducting daylight missions. Dive into the details of the Casablanca directive and see how both nations worked together to weaken German industry and morale! #mastersoftheair #ww2
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OMG, I’m I’m a big fan
Number 1🎉🎉🎉
Bro pinned a comment before the video was posted💀
W
🇺🇦😱
The RAF were active 1939 to 1945 and Bomber Command included all Bombers in the RAF, not just those attacking Germany. While the USAAF didn't really start bombing until mid 1943 and the figures given are just for the 8th Airforce 1943-45. The British also fielded many more bombers, conducting the first 1,000 bomber raids in May 1942, the USAAF didn't achieve these numbers until late 1944. So if you average out the statistics the USAAF lost far more men than did the RAF.
Bombers were horribly in efficient in damage to cost ratio unlike artillery and katyushas. Basically like having 1 bomber packed with bombs or 40 artillery guns
@@jason200912 That is a pretty pointless comparison. Heavies are going after industry and other targets hundreds to thousands of miles behind the lines. Artillery is engaging local targets within 1-25km. Not even remotely the same job or functional capabilities.
@@jason200912yes but artillery can’t reach the Rhine from the USSR plus we are discussing strategic bombing not tactical bombing
How many 4 engine bombers in the RAF 1,000 plane raid ? How many OTU's ?
IWM Life And Death In Bomber Command page
7...."Only 25% of airmen safely exited Halifaxes and Stirlings, a mere 15% from Lancasters."
Freeman Dyson - Problems in bombing policy and aircraft design
ua-cam.com/video/kLBBI8Wnrfk/v-deo.html
My Gramps admitted it was a 2% survival for Army Air Corps as "Bomber Air command" covered all losses. Statistically American command would note a quarterly loss ratio and balance it out. So Durring 1942 and 1943 the bomber command suffered a staggering ammount of men as the loss talley by the end of 43 didnt level out Survival % till 1945 and it was basically a grounded and beaten war for Germany, thus the losses of bombers got way less devistating. 1945 the suspected life expectancy of a bomber crew was talleyed seperately from all other aviator options and they used the 8th as a basis to divide the numbers up. Even after talleying just the 8ths losses, the average survival rait was 32% for the war. Realistically that number was fudged a bit as they lost track of pilot crews durring the timeframe of "Catch 22". Realistically the losses were higher, its suspected that US Bomber command suffered a 82% attrition rait.
American fighter losses are configured in as well, and the 8th's fighters were often new trainees as the Ace pilots were often pulled for training and PR for a while before sending them back into the mix. "Attached losses count" is in the doctrine, its like how the 21st armored detachment a Tank Destroier detachment was with the 101st Airborn durring battle of the bulge. They got bashed and battered and were nocked down to a mere 5 tanks, when they ran out of fuel they planned to place them as forward bunkers, the crews left the tanks or were ambushed by rocket attacking flanks. The crews fought well, but they get no credit, same for the 18 man detachment that warned about the German advance 2 days before Germany encircled the 101st, they kept holding there ground till they ran out of options.
Its why American loss records seem so weird, its not as if we dont admit to losing the manpower, its the statistics that make it sound so skewed. They used numbers of survivors as the defining answer that the equipment was doing better. If it was failing or the vehical survived and the crew didnt thats a problem as well.
My great grandfather was a pilot for the RAF, he flew a Lancaster. He was one of the only pilots to survive the whole war, and even got something signed from Mountbatten. My mom said that he was a lovely man, and I really wish I could’ve gotten the chance to meet him. Here’s to you Rodrick McKinnon.
Do heroes kill people in their own country?
@@PROVOCATEURSKwhat?!
@@PROVOCATEURSK The was a hot take comment.
@@PROVOCATEURSK ah yes some fellas grandfather went around killing people in the UK, are you dense?
No way my great grandad was also one kf the only pilots to survive the whole war lol
The British would use pathfinder planes such as Mosquitoes to fly in before the main bomber force at low altitude and drop flares onto the desired target for the following bombers. This way they targeted strategic points with great accuracy.
The RAF did not use Mosquitos to low level mark anything until No 5 Group and 617 Squadron did it in the last year of the War!! If the Mosquitos couldn't see the target or the bombers at high altitude couldn't see the markers, the raid was normally a total failure (and there were a lot more failures than successes!!!). Mosquito Marking started with the OBOE Blind Bombing System in late 1942, the Aircraft normally flew at 30,000 feet and their mean miss distance was 680 Yards from the aiming point for the Mark 1 System. The system was not easy to use and the Oboe equipment had 50% in flight failure rate. The Mark 2 was a bit better with a mean miss distance of 380 Yards. OBOE only worked if you were within line of sight of a Ground Station(s), so for any target past the Ruhr (before December 1944) you had to use dead reckoning navigation unless you were in a pathfinder aircraft fitted with H2S radar. Mean miss distance between aiming point and bomb impact point with the 10cm Mark III set was 2.2 miles. For the 3cm Mark III set it was 1.7 Miles (which was around the same for the US 3cm H2X set).
@@richardvernon317 the RAF was using low altitude pathfinders in mosquitoes from at least 43 onwards with 627 squadron which was transferred to No.5 Group in 44 so at least the last 2 years of combat.
Within Essen there was still Krupps, virtually intact after nearly three years of attack.
page 158
Royal Air Force 1939-1945 Vol II
@@nickdanger3802 Until 5th March 1943 and the first full scale Oboe attack.
@@ussenterprisecv6805 627 Squadron was a standard 8 Group LNSF decoy squadron until April 1944 when they were transferred to 5 Group. 105 and 139 Squadron were 2 Group light Bomber units until June 1943 and didn't do anything with the Main Force until then. 109 Squadron was high level OBOE only. 105 Squadron became the second Oboe unit, while 139 were a decoy force until early 1944 when H2S was fitted to their aircraft and they started toing marking for long range Mosquito operations. Don Bennett was totally against low level marking of defended targets. The Dive marking was a 617 Squadron / 5 Group thing and it didn't start with Mosquitos until April 1944!!!
Also worth mentioned that because the British themselves were bombed by the Germans and went through that experience of losing civilians to bombing raids, this hardened their hearts against the Germans and were eager for revenge and thus were much less sympathetic to German civilian casualties than the Americans were.
@Mong-Clizzy Tell that to Warsaw and the Spanish in the civil war.
@Mong-Clizzy Are you serious? More than 50% of casualties in WW2 are Allied civilians. Half of it were Japanese atrocities, while the other half was Germany bombing multiple European cities like Warsaw and Belgrade. If anything, the Allies didn't bomb them enough considering that the Axis civilians have less than 10% of total WW2 casualties.
@Mong-Clizzyonly because Germany didn' have enough planes.
@Mong-Clizzy It wasn't just London. I think in terms of property damaged Clydebank only had 1 or 2 buildings undamaged. A bomb landed in the school my gran went to and another bomb a couple of hundred yards behind my great uncle. As a little sidenote the cottages that were flattened by that bomb are now a row of flats where my sister stays. My family were mostly in Glasgow and I know other cities got it tough and worse than we did.
@Mong-ClizzyGermany by 1942 was awarded little sympathy when it came to bringing the war to its doorstep
last time I was this early, America was British
Great comment!
Nowadays they tend to larp as 5% Irish American or something like that
Last time i was this early, England was Roman
@@hahdgabfhbsjcnsncnnsdbbzbs even better!
@@The_Beefcake_Comethim 80% ethnically irish from the USA. Thats more than the average person in Ireland
On the WW2 podcast "we have ways of making you talk", they did a series on the USAAF bombing campaign.
A good summary they made was that, due to the weather conditions mitigating the benefits of the Nordern bombsight, the US ended up doing imprecise precision bombing whilst the RAF, having honed their night time raids, were precision area bombing - the end result on the target being the same.
The other main point that was made was that in late 43 and early 44 the USAAF had the largest impact upon the Luftwaffe's fighter command. A combination of targetting the production facilities with the bombers, drawing out the defending fighters for the Mustang escorts, then the escorts themselves hitting targets of opportunity on the homeward journey.
It was interesting listen.
James and Al are treasures
Actually in late 1943 and early 1944 the USAAF was grounded from bombing Germany, leaving the RAF to bomb Germany alone.
After the heavy Regensberg and Schweinfurt losses, the USAAF were unable to carry out bombing raids deep inside Germany from November 1943 to February 1944.
@@lyndoncmp5751 that’s when they discovered (and probably had to rediscovered) survivor Bias ?
In fairness to the P-47 as an escort fighter, USAAF doctrine had forbidden the development of fighter drop tanks early in the war, because "the bombers could defend themselves over the target" per the Bomber Mafia types.
Not true
@@ME-xh7zpTroll
The animation and editing of these clips are amazing. Hats off to your whole team for their hard work! Love this channel and the knowledge i get from it. 👍
Avro Lancaster's had some kind of electronic guiding that helped them if they were near the target, or if they have missed the target.
During the Allied bombing of Romania, Axis forces made an airfield in Zrenjanin, Yugoslavia (now Serbia). That airfield was a first line of defense of Allied bombers. The airfield was abandoned when the Germans were retreating in 1944.
In October 1943 Allied started bombing German troops stationed in Yugoslavia. They started bombing city of Niš. And speaking of Niš, the Niš incident that you covered in some of your previous videos I can tell you that incident occurred on November 7th 1944. There was marking of anniversary of October Revolution, and Soviet's organized parade, along with Yugoslav partisans. But before that, Niš was liberated on October 14th 1944. Six days later Belgrade, and Vrbas were liberated, while Novi Sad was liberated on 23rd of October 1944.
Also since you mentioned B-17,B-24, P-47, and P-51, there are interesting things about them as well. Believe it or not, Yugoslavia received at the final stages of war P-38 Lighting, and also a B-17, while P-47's and P-51 D's were received after WWII. For B - 17 there is a story that it landed on Sombor airfield (today's Serbia) on April 30th 1945, and also same day landed a P-38. Since there were Soviet and Yugoslav crew operating on that airfield one rumor says that B-17 was just a couple of days in Yugoslav air force before it was sent to USSR, while other says that it was in service in Yugoslav air force for one year. After that it was sent to museum. As for P-38, the plane was in service in Yugoslav air force for one year. After that it was sent to museum cause there were no spare parts for that airplane. Now it's in the depths of museum of aviation in Belgrade.
P-47's, and P-51 D mustang's were received after WWII, like I have told. There were seven P-51 D mustangs and also four B-24's that were in Yugoslav air force, believe it or not.
These were some interesting historical details and things.
I love pea salad
@@Account_abandoned-q7m Bon appetite, dear friend.
@@Harikejn thank you dear brother
@@Account_abandoned-q7m Yes dear brother or sister. You can correct me if I made a mistake.
i know im a bit late but it was the ground scanning h2s radar
7:58 - 'The 8th Air Force performed the majority of raids over Germany..." - That's complete BS. RAF Bomber Command were conducting regular raids on targets based in Germany as early as Oct 1939. RAF Bomber Command also dropped three times the bomb tonnage on targets within the German reich as the US 8th AF did during the course of the war.
The misnomer that the US 8th AF performed precision bombing in the day while the RAF resorted to carpet bombing at night is also BS. Both were equipped with the Norden Bomb Sight, and it's results on getting the bombs 'in the pickle barrel' were massively blown out of proportion for allied moral purposes.
For example: The USAAF would use the tactic of a 'lead bomber' in a box formation to get a sight on the objective target, that lead bomber would then release its bombs and signal 'bombs away' to the rest of the flight who would drop their bombs on that command...wether they were over the target or not - effectively saturating a target area in a 5 mile radius of the target with their ordinance - i.e: carpet bombing.
RAF Bomber Command's tactics were different, they utilised 'pathfinders' (usually Mosquitos or Beaufighters) to fly ahead of a bomber formation at lower altitude and mark out the target area with flares. The Bomber formation would then form up into a 'bomber stream' to pass through that area and drop their payloads within the marked out area. A different approach to the same problem, but it is important to emphasise that one was no better, or yielded less civilian casualties, than the other.
"Within Essen (all of 60 miles/90k inside Germany) there was still Krupps, virtually intact after nearly three years of attack."
page 158 Royal Air Force 1939-1945 Vol II
SPAATZ: Which had the more effect in the defeat of Germany, the area bombing or the precision bombing ~
GOERING: The precision bombing, because it was decisive. Destroyed cities could be evacuated but destroyed industry was difficult to replace.
SPAATZ: Did the Germans realize that the American Air Forces by intention did only precision bombing ?
-5
GOERING ~ Yes. I planned to do only precision bombing myself at the beginning.
pdf Goering Interrogation - Jewish Virtual Library
buddy he was talking about U.S. bombing very clearly
@@Assist.... even if he is solely talking about USAAF bombing, the statement is still inaccurate. The 8th Air Force did not do the majority of it’s over Germany. Like the RAF, it’s targets were all over occupied Europe.
what
Absolutely love the way you integrated your sponsor into the video. Ill say shamelessly that you got me to stop fast-forwarding to double check the imagery
shill
My great grandpa was a staff seargant tail gunner in a b17. He’s still alive today at the ripe age of 98. He told me the most eerie part of the war for him is when a b17 came back from a mission to replace a tail gunner that got shot up he had to sit in the dead tail gunners seat with bullet holes around him and blood everywhere still they didn’t even clean up the blood off the seat for him to sit in to go back up
With raids following on, day and night, the defensive luftwaffe had little respite. Both planes, and pilots were worn down, and fuelstocks exhausted.
Early in the war the RAF found it impossible to survive over Germany in daytime, by the end, they were also making daylight raids. Usually of specific targets, and undertaken by the fast flying mosquito.
As for targets, a lot has to be laid at the door of ACM Harris, who preferred area bombing, to going for particular industries. He could be rather stubborn on this issue.
The Commonwealth and US bombing forces were complimentary. Someone's got to do the night shift whilst those on days rest and rearm. Who's method was better just leads to headaches and misplaced jingoism. Respect is owed to everyone that did their bit be they British Commonwealth (Carribbean, Canadian, Aussie or Brit), French, Polish or American, flight or ground crew. The RAF flew Fortress Mk3 (B17s) in a Bomber Support role, often with a German or Austrian Jewish RAF specialist to fool and divert night fighters away from the bomber stream.
The thing is, we had a plane that allowed us to get away with daytime bombing raids, that being the De Havilland mosquito. The reason it was so effective was because it was made from wood, meaning German radar had a rather difficult time seeing it. We abused that fact… extensively
Mosquito was a light bomber. Most of them could only carry a 2000lb bomb load. The RAF only had an operational force of around 300 of them at the end of the war, verses 600 Halifax's and 1300 Lancaster's.
@@richardvernon317 the mosquito was regularly used to drop 4000 pound bombs on Germany
@@Randomfactsofwar Not before February 1944 and only with the B Mk XVI with the Merlin 70 engines. There is a load of Bullshit written about the Mosquito as a Bomber!! The total number of operational B Mk XVI's never exceeded around 80 airframes with the first of them not hitting the four squadrons equipped with the version of the aircraft until early 1944. The Mosquito could do 400MPH...for a very short time before you cooked the crap out of the engines. To get to Berlin and back with any bombload you had to fly at a cruising speed of between 280 and 320 MPH. Fast enough to outrun anything but a seriously hot rodded German night fighter at night, but absolutely no good in Daylight against a FW-190 unless you had a lot of cloud to hide in. The Squadron Operations Record Books for the Mosquito Bomber Squadrons tell a somewhat different story to what you will find in Books written at the time like Low Attack or post war. The aircraft had a 7.3% loss rate in 1942/43 in Daylight raids and the only reason that it wasn't higher was most of the raids in 1943 before the two squadrons were transferred to 8 Group night ops were launched late in the day, with a time on target at dusk and a return to base in twilight and darkness (normally with as much low overcast as possible and targets with any kind of light flak defences were avoided like the plague). The total number of Cookies dropped by the Mosquito Bomber force in WWII was around 5000!! The Lancaster Force in Bomber Command at the start of 1944 could do that in around 10 missions (plus drop a butt load of other bombs as well). Oh and the Mosquito's could fly from the UK to Berlin and back twice in a night!! Yep, a small number of Mosquitos did do that!! On two nights only in the whole WAR with 12 aircraft doing it twice on each night. (once in February 1945 and the second time in the March of 1945 when the tried to put 150 Mosquitos over Berlin. They actually managed 142 (plan was to turn around 20 aircraft, the ground crews only managed to do 12!!)
DH98 Mosquito PR.XVI/B.XVI
Similar to respective Mk IX models, with pressurised cockpit. 433 PR.XVI, 400 B.XVI (powered either by Merlin72/73 or 76/77). Most B.XVI with bulged bomb bay door for 4,000 lb bomb. Max weight (B.XVI) 25,200 lb.
BAE Mosquito page
It was not invisible to radar actually. It was just that German radar technology was kinda crap, mosquitos would fly under it, and when they were discovered were often too fast to be caught
My great grandfather was a rear gunner on a handley page Halifax in the RAF, I don’t remember much of what he said, but I remember he said he flew missions to bomb Dresden
Both methods saw very heavy losses on certain raids. The US in the Regensberg-Schweinfurt raid (nearly 70 bombers shot down), but night bombing was no less safe. In the Nuremberg raid, nearly 100 British bombers were shot down out of 770 deployed. As the Germans developed more advanced radar and weapons like the Shräge Musik (literal translation, "Slanted Music", it was cannons that fired upward. The German night fighters could sneak up underneath the British bombers. as neither the Lancaster or Halifax had ventral turrets, and fire at the bombers undetected. The Shräge Musik was often misattributed to the "Scarecrow" shell), it pretty much negated the cover of night.
Love to see your videos, and Can see you guys are getting better all the time😊
Didn't mention that us Brits switched to nighttime bombing at the beginning of the war after heavy daytime losses.
Also, Bomber Command managed to improve it's accuracy to the point where Lancasters could support ground troops round the time of D Day.
Didn't mention it because it isn't true, Lanc's were flying daylight ops as late as July 42.
RAF heavies resumed daylight ops after the USAAF cleared the sky.
@@nickdanger3802cleared by the P-51D powered by a British Rolls Royce engine
@@bobbyb379 Where was the "British Rolls Royce engine" made ?
Who paid for it ?
@@nickdanger3802 😂😂 it was designed by the British. It doesn’t matter where it was made - if it hadn’t been designed by the British it wouldn’t have mattered whether it was made in the US or on the moon - without it the P-51 would have remained unable to escort the USAAF bombing raids.
@@nickdanger3802 the British also gave the US technologies like cavity magnetron radar through the Tizard mission. Are you also going to say that the US should get equal credit for the discovery of this simply because they manufactured something they were given the blueprint to? Complete nonsense.
Great video but the ad having better animation than the core of the video is just hilarious to me
Love the material! You guys are the best
Which method is better?
Combine mixing
you forgot a thing that hurt us bombing raids was the us fighter pilots where more focused on getting kills and because of this the germans would enact decoy planes to lure away use pilots leaving the bombers unprotected
Red tails? Lol, in reality bomber escorts stayed close to formation and don't pursuit German Luftwaffe as much as that movie make it out to be. It's one of the reason why "The big week" operation was developed.
that belief is probably outright false as I have not read any actual historical information about such tactic besides guesses and conjecture. In real life, because of the high altitude, contrails are very visible and thus US escorts would have seen both the decoy and the actual attacking force from far away; thus splitting up their own force to attack both. Besides, in the end Allied Command (correctly) concluded it was better to chase down and kill Luftwaffe's pilots, using the bombers as bait.
@IvyPoisoned1246 Apology, I was responding to the original comment. I agreed with what you said.
@IvyPoisoned1246
Say what?? Everyone knows the 332 never lost a bomber got shot down , Destroyed the entire luftwaffe ,then landed their planes ,invaded Normandy ,still never losing a man ,saved Bastogne, and drove all Patton's tank , captured 1 million Nazis ,never losing a man ,after single handedly winning the ETO , They raise the flag at Iwo Jima ,invaded Okinawa and dropped the A-bombs ! My DEI text book said so
@IvyPoisoned1246The P-38 had the range, but because it had range, it was used mostly in the Pacific.
By 1945 and towards end of the war in Europe, Bombers mostly worried about flak since the Luftwaffe is completely out of existence
There were sometimes less than obvious indirect benefits to the RAF campaign. The best example of this was the dam-buster raid. The Germans repaired the breached dams fairly quickly afterwards. To do so took a phenomenal effort, and a great deal of concrete. It's thought that this had a considerable impact on the degree to which planned concrete defences along the length of the "Atlantic wall" were completed, which in turn meant that D-day was a rather easier proposition than would otherwise have been the case, had work on it been uninterrupted.
As depicted in Masters Of The Air
Brilliant show isn’t it
Which was just Hollywood crap for the thick flag-wavers.
@@racoonsgowild2971really?? It was absolutely appalling US propaganda cod-history nonsense.
Both strategies had their own set of chalenges
I would say the RAF. Although it seems quite harsh, war is war. Also there was Lancasters (617 Squadron) that their bomb bays were modified to hold a "bouncing bomb". It is basically a bomb that skips on water. They were dropped to bounce at a German dam so the area would get flooded. If you want more info Yarnhub has a good video on the bouncing bomb.
I remember watching something about D-day. After the landings in Normandy and push to secure more land, the Americans took to mass saturation bombing to soften German defences and armour. Some of the bombs they dropped would land as far as 3 miles away from their target. The result was the biggest blue on blue incident in American history but the bombing, however inaccurate, did destroy German defences.
The norden bombsight wasn’t as good as the us military claimed and the technology behind it had already been stolen by both the Germans and the British. Postwar suggests there was actually very little difference in bomber accuracy and the biggest issue was actually getting to the target in the first place which the RAF were doing much more reliably at night thanks to pathfinder aircraft and some clever electronic ranging.
American Ego for you
Within Essen there was still Krupps, virtually intact after nearly three years of attack.
page 158
Royal Air Force 1939-1945 Vol II
The producer claimed ridiculous accuracy.
My great grandfather also flew in a Lancaster bomber (at the age of 18). The back side of his plane was blown off but he still flew back. I have a lot of respect for him
The Dresden numbers were fluffed up by German propaganda during the war it’s actually 75,000… because of the fluffed numbers the RAF pilots didn’t get there own memorial until like 2004 there’s a good doco about it called Lancaster if you want to know more, this also holds a special place in my heart due to my family history of ww2.
its called a war crime, why celebrate the immolation of nearly 100k civilians who were fleeing death and worse at the hands of the russians...
I’m surprised that the British dam destruction campaign using the bomb upkeep(bouncing bomb) along with the other special British bombing campaigns involving the bombs tall boy (12,000lb) and grand slam (22,000lb) haven’t been mentioned during this because all operations also happened at night
"the bombs tall boy (12,000lb) and grand slam (22,000lb) haven’t been mentioned during this because all operations also happened at night"
are you certain ?
@@nickdanger3802 yes they where part of British tactics during ww2 to counter dams, difficult to destroy rail bridges and German u boat bunkers the British Lancaster was the only bomber of ww2 that could carry such heavy weapons
@@Thebootlegengineer fairly certain Tallboy and Grand Slam were used only in day light.
modified B29 could carry 2 Grand Slams.
Honestly both methods have their advantages but honestly it depends on what your trying to do, if you’re going for accuracy then day raid it is, but if your trying to avoid detection then night raids might be better.
Don't forget, during the Allied bombing raids in either 1944 or 1945, the only known almost entirely complete Spinosaurus specimen from the Cretaceous period was also destroyed when the museum holding the specimen was bombed.
I recently watched "Lords of the Air": Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg keep the quality bar! And here is your video on the topic.
I think you mean “Masters Of The Air”.
@@ShadowReaper-pu2hxYes, that's right. Thanks for correcting me. The translator translated it inaccurately.
@@Eldar-sy2vw5hm9x, you’re welcome.
In retrospect, probably the biggest effect of the Allied bombing campaign was the tying-down of much of the Heer and Luftwaffe to air defence and interception duties, at a time where every man, defensive artillery piece and aircraft would be sorely needed elsewhere.
Yeah, the impact it had on the German Air Force was really severe. Germany basically had no fighters because they were all tied up over Germany and with allied tactics like the fighter sweep and fighters that out performed the bomber hunting equipped German aircraft in high altitude they broke the back of the Germans
You missed that part of the reason why the British didn't mind so much about bombing the cities - is that the UK cities were being bombed by the Germans.
Your example - Dresden - Was actually retaliation against the German bombing of Coventry... Making the point that if the Germans were willing to bomb UK cities in such a form, the UK would react with greater numbers of bombs.
No one likes the fact that thousands died there - but in a "them or us" situation, ultimately - you have to make sure it's not us.
The carpet bombing accuracy of the British however - was also not intentional. It was found that only 1/5 bombers dropped their payloads within 5 miles of their intended target.
With that sort of accuracy - the only thing that you're ever going to reliably hit IS a city.
Lastly - And IMHO the most interesting part of city bombing....
Those in the cities started to blame the leaders more than the attackers for the bombing - and started to resent those living in the countryside as they were largely unaffected by it.
This didn't just reduce moral, but also encouraged in fighting.
To be fair, during the phony war it was not the Germans who began bombing British cities first, it was the other way around.
The Germans were trying to be more selective in their targets than the British. Coventry was a munitions producing area, if i recall. Becoming sloppier in response to enemy carelessness or specific targeting of civilians was more a German than British thing.
As someone else said, the Germans, to their credit, tried to be precise with their raids. It's just that Britian camouflaged everything and it was also dark. Coventry had arms manufacturing assemblies. Dresden had only people. It was of no military industrial value, the British just wanted to bomb them. Same with the Americans fire bombing urban districts in Japan.
Germans bombing british civilians? 😊😊😊
The British retaliates? 🤬🤬🤬
The cherry picking is more obvious than an american daylight raid.
@@barccy Dresden had munitions factories, a rifle factory, a machine gun factory and a ball bearings factory. It's not Britain's fault they happened to have perfect wind for a large fire, no German interceptors were sent, only 2 flak batteries fired, nor is it Britain's fault Dresden only had 1 public bomb shelter. As it is Harris didn't even want to continue area bombing by that point saying that Berlin was the only city left worth bombing all all other cites weren't worth the bones of a single British grenadier. Stalin wanted to force a refugee crisis to further hamper German logistics.
Well done Simple History, once again you exceeded my expectations. I always found history of warfare very fascinating especially the Second World War from geopolitical to technological to strategic and tactical perspectives. Both the Americans and the British had their own pros and cons with their respective approach but they wouldn't have succeded thanks to their combined efforts.
The way I see it. It was a day shift and night shift for the bomber corps. It was a war and they brought it. War will result in civilian casualties regardless of intentional or accidental. Just pray your city wasn’t a priority target
'By March 1944, it became clear that the area offensive had fallen short of its goals and that Bomber Command was facing destruction by night fighters just as earlier it had faced destruction by day fighters.' - Noble Frankland, historian and Bomber Command veteran
And also there’s a story if you read “Masters Of The Air” or listen to it on audible and it explains the both of them
Если соотносить общий экономический ущерб нанесенный Союзниками и СССР, то очевидным фактом становится то, что США совместно Британским RAF буквально уничтожили экономику Германии в период с 1942 по 1944/1945 год. И это только если брать авиационный урон, у Германии также ушло огромное количество средств на борьбу в Атлантике и производство авиации, что в своем превалирующем значении была сосредоточена на Западном фронте. Топливо и производство боеприпасов таким же образом отвечает скорее большему значению по цене на Западном фронте. Советский Союз в общем виде нанес значительный ущерб по количеству численности рабочих рук, в которых нуждалась Германия, а также продовольственный кризис и нанесение вреда транспортной логистике, что возникли в следствии Войны на Востоке. Таким образом, Высадка Нормандии скорее является добиванием Рейха, ежели чем поворотным моментом в войне. Просто надо понимать, что СССР вёл другой характер войны, явно отличающийся от войны Союзников против Рейха.
Р. S. Мне ужасно жаль гражданских страдавших во Второй Мировой войне, не только с территории союзников, но и с территории стран Оси -не всё же немцы, японцы и другие были плохими и поддерживали агрессивную войну своих правительств. Война ужасна.
Everyone and their mother cries foul over the bombings of Japan, yet those same people justify the bombings of Germany. Got to love double standards.
No, I don’t think it’s the same people at all actually lmfao
@@grontelp77 It is the same people. Next time you encounter someone complaining about the bombings in Japan, ask them how they feel about the carpet bombings in Germany.
@@Princess_Celestia_ how do you feel about what Germany did to Rotterdam, or to London in 1940?
and nobody crying about Japan talks about how Japan treated China nor POWs, and how the bombings saved more Japanese and allied lives than they killed. And Japan only lost 1/3rd as many people in WW2 and Germany.
And nobody talks about how frequently Japan/German pilots shot at parachuting aircrew.
Especially after we found out all the horrible things Japan did and tried to cover up they did a Holocaust just like the Nazis and did alott of horrible human experiments
Well done for getting quite a complex narrative into such a neat and short video. Understandably, there are some missing elements, so a couple of points:
Despite all the propagandist hype, the Norden bomb-sight, in practical use, was actually about as accurate as throwing a dart over your shoulder, with your back to the board.
We actually did have a long-range escort fighter quite early in the war, at least potentially. American engineers had fitted drop-tanks to Spitfires and shown that they were both capable and effective in such a role. 2 idiots stopped us from using these: one who took over RAF fighter command AFTER the Battle of Britain, and the one in charge of the USAAF on it's arrival in Britain. The former didn't want 'his' Spitfires in such a role, the latter thought they were unnecessary. Fortunately for a lot of ground forces, both were replaced before D-day - the same, sadly, can't be said for a lot of aircrews.
Both had their flaws and advantages
Night- You can’t see the target leading to more collateral damage but less chance of fighter interception
Day- See the target and hit but the fighters also see you.
In the end both worked
Night you can see if you use pathfinders and ground scanning radar. And the main limiter for accuracy was the bombs themselves, only 7% of US bombs actually hit, a target being a 1000ft radius circle centred on that true target so even if it does nothing to the building, if it hits within the circle it counted as a hit. Per flight the 8th Airforce lost more bombers than the British. It's also worth noting that all other US bomber forces flew at night wherever possible, only Henry Miller forced his men to fly at daytime.
The Canadian bombers would adopt tactics that lead to them having the highest survival rate among the allied bomber fleets, though there is debate about how this affected their accuracy.
What specifically did the Canadians do differently from their British and other Commonwealth counterparts? AFAIK their doctrine didn’t differ to that of any other squadron in Bomber Command (although if the Canadians did do things somewhat differently, I’d be glad to know).
?
What tactics? I'm Canadian and I don't know about this. We also had the least amount of bombers so it would make sense we would suffer the least amount of casualties.
Canada provided an entire Bomber Group No 6 based in Yorkshire utilising the HP Halifax all paid for by Canada. Australia had three dedicated bomber squadrons within Bomber Command utilising the Lancaster the Free French Air Force utilised the Halifax within No6 Group and there were Polish bomber Squadrons with Bomber Command.
One of the short comings with the air campaign was the belief that the B17, flying in full formation, could protect themselves. When in reality, the B17 needed fighter cover. Success and survivability increased when bomber units were protected by fighters.
USAAF lost 60 or more aircraft on quite a few raids in 1944, the difference was 600 plus aircraft were doing the raids not 250 to 300. USAAF lost 2000 plus bombers in the first 6 months of 1944 (plus a thousand fighters over Germany alone!!!).
@@richardvernon317
BRITISH AND AMERICAN BOMBER LOSSES
HC Deb 10 May 1944 vol 399 c1934W1934W
§Mr. Stokes asked the Secretary of State for Air how many British and American bombers, respectively, were lost over Germany and Northern Europe during the first four months of 1944.
§Sir A. Sinclair During the first four months of 1944, 1,041 British and 1,117 U S.A.A.F. bombers operating from this country were reported lost over Germany and Northern Europe.
The RAF utilised radars in their lancasters which made mid and late war lancaster accuracy very very high please mention this
"made mid and late war lancaster accuracy very very high"
Source ?
Would love to see you cover the "Forgotten 15th" US Army Air Corps!
Great Video! Below are the Timestamped Summaries from ChatWithPDF:
00:00🌟 Allies used strategic bombing in WWII to disrupt Germany's infrastructure and morale.
01:00🌙 British preferred nighttime bombing, Americans favored daytime raids.
02:00🧠 Brilliant offers interactive learning for critical thinking skills.
03:00💡 Data analysis led to improved bomber armor strategies.
04:00🔍 Americans aimed for city destruction, British focused on wider areas.
05:00🎯 Precision bombing faced challenges, area bombing targeted cities.
06:00✈ Fighter escorts were crucial for bomber protection.
07:00💥 Flack guns posed threats to bomber formations.
08:00⚔ Daylight raids incurred heavy losses for the US Air Force.
09:00🌆 Debate continues on the effectiveness of bombing tactics.
10:00💣 Controversy over civilian casualties in bombing campaigns.
11:00🕊 Allied bombing campaigns left German cities in ruins.
Where to start? The RAF were at war for two and a half years before the USA showed up. Secondly the Americans didn't have rheir homeland getting the crap bombed out of it. Thirdly the Lancaster far outperformed the American bombers in range and payload And fourth the RAF conducted several vital daylight raids With huge bombs that you yanks couldn't hope to carry! And your story barely mentioned the Halifax or Sterling
hitler declared war on the USA because FDR had been propping up Britain from 1939.
If FDR had not propped up Britain or in a moment of sanity hitler did not declare war on the USA, how would the war play out for Britain ?
The U.S. B24 out ranged the Lancaster. There is a reason why the B24 was the preferred anti submarine bomber for the allies. For some reason the British replaced the B24 with the Lancaster which was inferior at that job. The Lancaster out ranged the B17. There is a reason why the B24 was the plane that was most used and popular by the U.S. and British to patrol the Atlantic because it had range. The B17 could technically exceed the bomb load of the Lancaster with the maximum of the unmodified Lancaster being 14,000 and the B17 when fitted with extra racks carried about 17,000-18,000 pounds but could carry only a fraction internally because the U.S. bombers used the space for more weapons.
0:24 Yet didn't they themselves claim how the German strategic bombing campaign (The Blitz) was ineffective?
The effects of incendiary bombs dropped on Dresden greatly exaggerated the fire and destruction afterwards as opposed to dropping only explosive bombs and bombs tend to set off anything that is combustible in the area because it burns such a high temperature
Hey simple history, I would like to say thank you. I know I bought it but I got my yootooz on my birthday! Which almost feels like a gift in of itself. I’ve been a fan for years and he sits on my desk
Please compare tonnage dropped, number of sorties flown, number of planes lost and enemy fighters destroyed.
How they drew the "shocked face" on the front of the lancaster in the thumbnail is so funny to me. He's just a lil guy 😮
The pro's to day time bombing: You can see the targets better, less civilian deaths for the most part. Con's to day time bombing: Subject to mass amount of AA, subject to mass numbers of swarming fighter planes that have a clear line of sight on all bomber planes, and mass loss of life and bomber planes on the American side when the fighter planes reach their total limit of escorting the bomber planes to where there targets are.
The pro's to night time bombing: Much safer than day time bombings for the most part, and don't get swarmed by as many fighter planes during the day but still do by some that have the bomber planes in sight. Con's: Subject to spotlights and massive amount of AA fire, less accurate for bombing key locations of industry, much more collateral damage to cities and much more loss of civilian life's.
This sums up some of the pro's and con's to both bombing strats the allies used. Probably lot's of other pro's and con's to the strategies used.
When it comes to civilian casualties, these were mostly factory workers making the weapons so really could be seen as part of the target. Someone who makes a torpedo knowing it will sink an Allied ship has the same responsibility as the one who orders it fired, and can be seen as a combatant.
@@percyprune7548 Fair point.
I’ve read extensively on this topic and except for a way to late attack on Romanian oil, it was of marginal utility especially considering the vast resources allocated to 4 engine bombers and the manpower required
SPAATZ: Which had the more effect in the defeat of Germany, the area bombing or the precision bombing ~
GOERING: The precision bombing, because it was decisive. Destroyed cities could be evacuated but destroyed industry was difficult to replace.
SPAATZ: Did the Germans realize that the American Air Forces by intention did only precision bombing ?
-5
GOERING ~ Yes. I planned to do only precision bombing myself at the beginning.
pdf Goering Interrogation - Jewish Virtual Library
I know it's nitpicky but the wings of the P-47s at 6:30 look more like wings from F6F's. Late model P-47s had clipped wings but these shown are early razorbacks.
Is there any estimate as to how many planes exploded midair from bombs being struck?
I like your thinking but the arming and detonators were fairly reliable not to go off in mid air but there were a number of aircraft that were destroyed during crash landings because they still had bombs on board. Whether they got stuck in their racks or the crew was too wound to manually eject them.
@@theworkshopwhisperer.5902 I figured as much, but thought that with as many planes in the air being shot at inevitably one of them might have struck a bomb in just the right place at the right time.
Bombs are actually pretty tough. The standard American general purpose bomb during the war had a fill weight of about 51% high explosive. I’ll be generous and say that the bomb’s fuse makes up another 5%, and the rest of the bomb’s weight (44%, or 220 pounds in the case of a 500-pound weapon) was the solid steel outer casing. It would take a direct hit from a flak gun to set it off, fragments would have no effect.
Most mid-air explosions were caused by fuel tanks catching fire.
@@Shaun_Jones what about cannon rounds?
Naw the fact the b17 looks like swiss cheese in the thumbnail says alot
By the end of the war, the USAAF discovered that night time incendiary raids were much more effective than daylight pinpoint bombing. Surely this should have been worth mentioning?
Btw my grandfather’s uncle was in the 8th, yes the bloody 8th. Also the show “Masters Of The Air” is based off the 8th air force (idk the full name of the 8th)
If you look at it objectively, the British method was better. Let me break it down:
1. The Brits were bombing the germans for way longer than the americans, having been in the war for longer but didn't loose much more men in comparison
2. As stated in the video, even daytime bombing was very inaccurate, meaning "accuracy" can't really be an argument
3. Night-time bombing at least gives your troops a slight amount of cover, versus none at all
4. Having the cover of darkness, you can focus on increasing the payload of your bombers, making them more effective, as more ir bigger bombs means you cause more damage when you did hit your target
5. Being able to carry more bombs by reducing armour and using less machine guns means when the bombs were dropped the planes were faster and used less fuel, both being very beneficial to your wae efforts
I do want to say though, that it's the combined effort that made the difference. Being bombed day and night meant the Germans could never recover from attacks or properly prepare for additional bombing runs. The allies won together and we should always remember that
'The idea of area bombing was to attack an aiming point which lay at the centre of a large area whose destruction would be useful. It was, in other words, a way of making bombs which missed the aiming point contribute to the destruction of the German war machine. Since nearly all the bombs were missing the aiming point, there was a certain logic about the idea.' - Noble Frankland, historian and Bomber Command veteran
BBC Thousand-bomber Raids page
"Against Bomber Command by night the Luftwaffe, by means of improved airborne radar devices, was beginning to make of darkness a tattered cloak. After a period of trial and error extending over the years 1941 and 1942 its pilots had been equipped with two standard night fighters, the Messerschmitt 110 and the Junkers 88. The first was easy to maneuver, possessed a high rate of climb and, owing to mass production was available in quantity. Its main disadvantage was its short tactical endurance, which prevented prolonged pursuit. For these reasons it was gradually superseded by the Junkers 88,which though slower and more difficult to handle, had an endurance of five hours. It was constantly modified and for a time was disliked by pilots. Gradually, however they came to see that its advantages outweighed its defects and in their skilled hands it became a formidable weapon."
page 2
Royal Air Force 1939-1945 Vol III
Fun fact: In Winston Churchill's VE day speech, the contributions of Bomber Command were never mentioned, only Fighter Command.
I would say another important factor in the bombing was the mere fact that the brits were being bombed as well whilst the Americans managed to avoid getting bombed for obvious reasons. I feel that plays a role as your objectives and subjective emotions will be affected if you’re constantly under fire at home as well as on patrol.
I watched a video on the German night trains, they’d try to follow the bomber movement by having night fighters pinpointing the Bombers locations.
Dont know why you asked the question of which method was more effective without providing some kind of answer instead of leaving the question unanswered
He explains it towards the end of the video if you pay attention
@@ryanstewart8157 I don’t think he did. Which did he say was better then in your opinion
I Like watching your videos because they are interesting to watch and lean about would war 1 and world war 2
Speel cheek
6:40 They actually did try to solve it using a B17 with just machine guns, but it was too heavy for it reach the bombers in time
now we need a vid on Arthur "Bomber" Harris to go with this video
I've got to say the British were more effective. Night time raids were more useful as rarely the RAF were seen
I like how they use bombing campaigns against civilian targets to sell services.
Capitalism. Capitalism never changes.
Bro i miss when simple history have normal thumbnail and not the clickbait
Nice video
7:37 I didn’t know that each gun could independently aim, I thought they were fixed
Personally, I believe the British bombing tactics where a lot more accurate and did a lot more than the Americans. Britain’s Avro Lancasters also where a lot more effective at shooting down enemy aircraft and that’s even if the fighters could find them under the cover of darkness. Heavy fighters like the mosquito would fly low level and drop an orange smoke which would be a marker for the British Lancasters. I will give it to the Americans the that the B-17 really was a “Flying Fortress” even though sometimes not the most effective at destroying BF-109s or other German Interceptors.
6,098 shoot downs claimed by 8th AF gunners, 320 by Lanc gunners
'The idea of area bombing was to attack an aiming point which lay at the centre of a large area whose destruction would be useful. It was, in other words, a way of making bombs which missed the aiming point contribute to the destruction of the German war machine. Since nearly all the bombs were missing the aiming point, there was a certain logic about the idea.' - Noble Frankland, historian and Bomber Command veteran
BBC Thousand-bomber Raids
They were different in terms of effects. British raids probably destroyed more however the american bomber campaign decimated the German air capabilities, leaving it largely in shambles. P47s, P51s, and the occasional other type of fighter on escort duty like a P38 or maybe a spitfire just ran up their kill totals against German fighters to the point where Germany couldn’t really recover
@@nickdanger3802Thank you for your replies that’s been really helpful
@@apersondoingthings5689 a thank you as well.
So essentially I watched an entire video just to know the same thing I already know....which is nothing about what tactics was more effective. Great!
When it comes to Effectiveness, both are good, but when it comes to Civilian Casualties, i think the Americans have inflicted fewer civilian casualties than the british, since they bomb in Daylight they have higher chance of hitting thier intended target rather than hitting civilians.
"Not so the Americans, who from first to last were determined to bomb by day and in the end achieved their object with conspicuous success."
page 1
Hyperwar Royal Air Force 1939-1945 Vol III
Schweinfurt
"Ball-bearings were, however, vital to the war machines of all the belligerents. if the supply of them to Germany or if their manufacture could be reduced or cut off completely, it would be impossible for her to continue the struggle. As early as November, 1942, the Ministry of Economic Warfare had estimated that more than half the ball bearings made in Germany came from the V.R.F. factories and the Fischer factory at Schweinfurt. there was also a factory at Stuttgart and others at Leipzig, Berlin and Elberfeld. France too possessed a number of small establishments. Operation 'SELFRIDGE', an assault on Schweinfurt, was therefore planned, but month after month passed and it was not executed: the technical difficulties were too great. The Air Ministry, however was determined that it should be as soon as they had been overcome."
page 25
"BEFORE many months of 1943 had passed, it became evident that to fulfil the main provisions of the (Pointblank) Directive issued at the Casablanca Conference, the 'progressive destruction and dislocation of the German military, industrial and economic system and the undermining of the morale of the German people', would prove a costly task, at least in daylight. The campaign opened badly, for in the early spring of 1943 and for some time to come the Fortresses of the United States Eighth Air Force, which had been placed under the direction of the British Chief of the Air Staff, acting as agent for the Combined Chiefs of Staff, had to operate without the comforting presence of long-range fighters as escort--for at that time thee were only in the preliminary stages of their development. The American bomber force was, in consequence, faced with a heavy and most perilous mission, and the first three months of 1943 proved that, despite the gallantry with which its crews sought to fulfill it, it was beyond their strength."
page 1
Royal Air Force 1939-1945 Vol III
3:17 that is the ye olde pub 3:17
The norden bomb site was junk. Sperry had a far superior sight but norden had sperry discredited and wrapped up the contract
Can you please make a video on the Burmese civil war I want to know a quick history about it
Go listen to the podcast We have ways to make you talk. There is 8 hours of them talking about the 8th air force, why the British bombed at night and why the Americans bombed during the day. The main reason why the Americans bombed during the day was due to the leaders of the American airforce strategic view they came to in the 30s that day time bombing was the way and they stuck to that. The turning point for the Americans was the getting fighter planes to protect the bombers.
"The 8th Air Force performed the majority of raids over Germany"
American moment
Let’s go a simple history video
Would it have been prudent to have just launched fast fighters or fighter bombers or even fast bombers and thus they would be harder to shoot down than 4 engine bombers?
So we killed a ton more in these bombing runs than the nukes ever did? That's crazy
AFAIK
German Firemen/fire fighters
Viewed British Bomber "Streams" as more devastating then US "Box" bombing
Because,
the US dropped their in bombs in one combined drop (everyone taking their cue from the lead bomber) and the fighter fighters could emerge from shelter and put out the fires
When the British bombed, it was a continuous 10-15 minute stream of bombs fanning out from the starting point , by the time the fire fighters could emerge the fires were well alight , and burned longer/harder to extinguish = more actual damage
PS - I'm not here to get into a UK/US pissing contest, IMHO the guys that flew daylight raids , before there were enough P-51's to escort them all the way, where some of the bravest that ever lived
Both strategies were useful as it allowed round the clock raids which must have put a severe mental toll on the populations in the big German cities.
TY
Its obviously the methods from New Zealand, they utilized the strategic jet bomber "Bob Semple Tank"
Fun fact say it and everyone will read it
My grandfather was a survivor of Black Thursday.
Got my comment deleted for pointing out a flaw in the animation. Thanks Simple History.
I wonder how many bombers were shot down by other bombers’ machine guns in their formation?
Besides cost, I'll never understand why the British didn't give their heavy bombers a higher caliber defensive armament. They stuck with 7.7mm or .303 caliber for way too long. Surely the cost of losing a bomber and crew was higher than arming it's turrets with 12.7/50 caliber or 20mm cannons. They stuck with rifle caliber turrets the longest of any nation in WW2
they gave 0.50 cal to their late war bombers rear turrets. In reality the turrets practically never hit anything and the tracer fire look scary, that being the most effective thing, and so a smaller gun weighs less and can carry more ammunition. Also the normal way of rating firepower is weight of fire and 4 0.303 have a greater fire weight than the 2 0.50 that replaced them so it would look as if their initial choice was better.
This is Masters of the Air
Who’s here after finishing Masters of the Air?