cosmos is the only non eth smart contract project that never resorted to scammy tactics and dirty marketing, just pure engineering. Even their articles on ethereums proof of stake(casper ffg) are good
Crypto is like the left lane on the highway. Feels a bit riskier, things move faster but the potential of reaching your desired destination is so much quicker.
really good episode :o, interesting conversation, and somehow those big brain topics that they were talking about were easy to understand, thank you bankless and ethan this one was a banger
Some interesting takes, really got me thinking. I do think most of the criticisms fail to account for the flexibility L2s allow when combined with a credibly neutral base layer. The idea the 'ultra sound' nature of ETH may backfire in the same way other ''sound' currencies have due to an inability to repay debt is interesting. My gut tells me this doesn't account for important differences in issuance models (ETH = steady issuance to decentralized set of validators, gold backed dollar = unsteady issuance to a centralized state). Most 'sound' currencies fall apart due to a centralized power seizing issuance rights for expansionist policies. I personally feel expansionist policies aren't always bad and fiat systems can co-exist and operate in parallel. For example, govt. requires taxes paid in USD, Ethereum requires gas paid in ETH, then both retain monetary premium. Whether ETH's 'ultra sound' monetary policy backfires, it's a good question. Ethereum is so unique and new, only time will tell. At least we know it's unlikely to be co-opted by centralized authorities. I don't think L2s that need to pay settlement fees in ETH will become saddled with ETH denominated debt, they only need to buy ETH as needed, so it really comes back to the scaling problem. The idea the EVM is flawed such that some communities don't want to be restricted to it is almost completely mitigated by L2s. While I agree with the sentiment we don't want 'one empire to rule them all', building new L1s just for the sake of diversity is a fruitless exercise when the security layer remains credibly neutral. Nobody is saying you need to 'believe in Jesus' or 'Ethereum is the chosen one', just that the incentives generally point to settling on Ethereum due to it's unique balance of security, cost and neutrality. That said, maximalism isn't the answer. Absolute neutrality is an impossibly high bar and alternate L1 architectures do have their place. Gonna need to watch this one again, great episode!
The point of Ethereum isn't to replace the world's money. There are many things a blockchain is good at and we see many of the examples already in defi and tokenized assets but replacing a sovereign monetary system is beyond its scope unless it's a state sponsored one like the yuan.
Awesome conversation! Brilliant points & insights on both sides. And, most importantly, it’s clear throughout that we’re in the same boat A ray of beautiful sunlight piercing through the depressing morass of brain dead maximalism
One of the best episodes ever! 👏 Invaluable to hear different perspectives as well, especially in such a civilized format. One question: Isn't it possible to deviate from the EVM on L2s? It goes over my head what exactly they're doing but e.g. Starkware utilizes their own programming language Cairo.
I'm with Buchman and am ensconsed within the ATOM/Cosmos IBC Ecosystem *but I've been supporting Bankless from the start* for reasons I probably don't have to discuss with you. If it helps, realize that success is not mutually exclusive - and a competitive spirit is a sign of the overall health of future Economic Markets..
Very thought provoking episode, huge fan of cosmos, great to hear Ethan’s philosophy. His point on changing arguments depending on who he speaks to makes me wonder why are you arguing in the first place though, also, it kinda reminds me of Tyrion from Games of Thrones too xD
"Unifying Ethos" is not just a meme, but the very backbone for the frame we are erecting together. I think we are ALL looking for the same things -but a constantly changing shared Lexicon makes it more difficult to 'flesh out' the frame in a sustainable manner. This is why we must 'come together' now.
Great Video! I would like to hear more on how the central banking system has been at the heart of a lot of war and corruption. Capitalism without a central banking system is a viable model in my opinion. The founding fathers warned of a private banking system (AKA Federal Reserve).. Open to hear all possibilities and solutions economically though and change is the only guarantee in this life..
For another interesting discussion that could open eyes and doors to perception I will ask you to get Kunstler from Evmos, Jacob Gadiakin (notional), Sunny Aggarval (Osmosis), and/or Jack Zampolin (Sammolier) as Conceptualization is a necessary step to innovation. There is a lot of talent out there and when these people come together from each section of interest we will make MAGIC.
Lots of good thoughts but ultimately conflating too many obvious concepts. Here are eight: 1. Money is legally an agreement between two or more parties. Setting legal tender laws aside, ANYTHING can be money in private commerce. 2. Currencies are the STANDARDIZATION of "money agreements" - i.e. a One Dollar Federal Reserve Note is a non-interest-bearing promissory note. 3. The FUNCTION of currency is that of LANGUAGE OF VALUE - aka "pricing function" expressed as a unit of account. The largest network effects are attached to that function. 4. The primary USE CASE currency today is lending. All digital government-issued fiat currency is in a constant state of lending, as such strictly speaking there are no 'deposits'. 5. The secondary USE CASE of currency is spending. The client software for the latter might be a web or mobile app, or coded into hardware - i.e. debit cards, ultimately accessing a demand deposit account. 6. Setting physical cash aside, the medium of exchange (MOE) for all currencies - including "cryptocurrencies" - are BYTES. In that respect bitcoin (BTC) uses the same MOE as the US Dollar and other fiat currencies. 7. Globally the leading unit of account (UOA) is US Dollar. In that respect, bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are frequently denominated in USD, with wallet interfaces offering other fiat currency translations. 8. Tokens are STANDARDIZED SMART CONTRACTS built atop a public blockchain, which can be digital bearer instruments (DBIs). DBIs can in principle settle 'instantly' with finality and without a third party.
@@plsreleasethekraken Evmos is literally the EVM on top of Tendermint. This proves that Cosmos (of which Tendermint is a part) is more general than Ethereum. You can run the Ethereum VM in the Cosmos model, and you can run other VMs. It's a more general purpose framework. You can experiment with other VM designs too. You're not locked into the EVM, you have the full scope of possible computing architectures!
@@ethanbuchman7705 yes, I didn't articulate that well in my response. Compatible is the wrong word. I just meant the network, consensus, and application layers operate on a different model fundamentally and aren't isomorphic. But as you mention you can get similar functionality with something like evmos.
I don't like DAO because they don't enforce voting, so having a vote is meaningless if its not used. So the few who are active will dominate the DAO. It becomes a oligarchy.
I thought of a model. Where eth is the internet and other blockchains are different networks like TV and Telephone... And cosmos wants to connections between all networks. Bankless thesis though is that eventually the internet becomes so efficient and useful to where the point of using these other networks will become obsolete because they exist on the internet in a more advanced way. Love these podcasts and that you have people question your thesises btw😘
It's gunna work out like search engines or social media or any other tech company. Yes, there will always be alternatives if people want to opt out from the market leader, but... The market leader will still own the majority of market share.
This dude believes in the empire modell and doesn’t even know it. This Ep would have had to be 4h long in my opinion. Eventually you would have gotten rid of the distance between your believes and found common ground.
.. such a weak episode. Do you even know which country discovered America? What empire was that? :)))) please guys, if you are going to talk about things you dont know like history, bring real experts, ask and listen.
What an amazing debate about money, governance and economy! Enjoyed every moment. Thanks Bankless and Ethan for bringing this lively podcast 👏👏🤛🏻
Respect for doing an ep like this
cosmos is the only non eth smart contract project that never resorted to scammy tactics and dirty marketing, just pure engineering. Even their articles on ethereums proof of stake(casper ffg) are good
The only one that you know of. Plenty didn't, which is part of the reason why you don't know of them.
Also the atom token may not persist and there is a significant chance a Binance type conglomerate takes over IBC system
Tragedy of the commons
What about Polkadot?
This dude is awesome. Loved the discussions and debate, and this has sold me on Cosmos for sure
Buchmann is great and finally someone telling them that the EVM is not perfect and NOT the end all/be all was really necessary.
No one believes that and all he is saying is to pretty much decentralize L1
Crypto is like the left lane on the highway. Feels a bit riskier, things move faster but the potential of reaching your desired destination is so much quicker.
I think more of a single lane directionally changing road, efficiency is boosted but the risk of a head on collision is high
Thank you for doing this we need so much more of this conversation! ❤️✌️
really good episode :o, interesting conversation, and somehow those big brain topics that they were talking about were easy to understand, thank you bankless and ethan this one was a banger
Important convo, thanks Bankless for hosting this
Great conversation, thanks a lot guys
Some interesting takes, really got me thinking. I do think most of the criticisms fail to account for the flexibility L2s allow when combined with a credibly neutral base layer.
The idea the 'ultra sound' nature of ETH may backfire in the same way other ''sound' currencies have due to an inability to repay debt is interesting. My gut tells me this doesn't account for important differences in issuance models (ETH = steady issuance to decentralized set of validators, gold backed dollar = unsteady issuance to a centralized state). Most 'sound' currencies fall apart due to a centralized power seizing issuance rights for expansionist policies. I personally feel expansionist policies aren't always bad and fiat systems can co-exist and operate in parallel. For example, govt. requires taxes paid in USD, Ethereum requires gas paid in ETH, then both retain monetary premium. Whether ETH's 'ultra sound' monetary policy backfires, it's a good question. Ethereum is so unique and new, only time will tell. At least we know it's unlikely to be co-opted by centralized authorities. I don't think L2s that need to pay settlement fees in ETH will become saddled with ETH denominated debt, they only need to buy ETH as needed, so it really comes back to the scaling problem.
The idea the EVM is flawed such that some communities don't want to be restricted to it is almost completely mitigated by L2s. While I agree with the sentiment we don't want 'one empire to rule them all', building new L1s just for the sake of diversity is a fruitless exercise when the security layer remains credibly neutral. Nobody is saying you need to 'believe in Jesus' or 'Ethereum is the chosen one', just that the incentives generally point to settling on Ethereum due to it's unique balance of security, cost and neutrality. That said, maximalism isn't the answer. Absolute neutrality is an impossibly high bar and alternate L1 architectures do have their place.
Gonna need to watch this one again, great episode!
The point of Ethereum isn't to replace the world's money. There are many things a blockchain is good at and we see many of the examples already in defi and tokenized assets but replacing a sovereign monetary system is beyond its scope unless it's a state sponsored one like the yuan.
Awesome conversation!
Brilliant points & insights on both sides.
And, most importantly, it’s clear throughout that we’re in the same boat
A ray of beautiful sunlight piercing through the depressing morass of brain dead maximalism
One of the best episodes ever! 👏
Invaluable to hear different perspectives as well, especially in such a civilized format.
One question: Isn't it possible to deviate from the EVM on L2s? It goes over my head what exactly they're doing but e.g. Starkware utilizes their own programming language Cairo.
32:20 wow.
1:26:10 lmaooo
hello new editor... i like the swirly circles @2:40
I'm with Buchman and am ensconsed within the ATOM/Cosmos IBC Ecosystem
*but I've been supporting Bankless from the start* for reasons I probably don't have to discuss with you.
If it helps, realize that success is not mutually exclusive
- and a competitive spirit is a sign of the overall health of future Economic Markets..
Legend. Great discussion Gents.
Very thought provoking episode, huge fan of cosmos, great to hear Ethan’s philosophy.
His point on changing arguments depending on who he speaks to makes me wonder why are you arguing in the first place though, also, it kinda reminds me of Tyrion from Games of Thrones too xD
"Unifying Ethos" is not just a meme, but the very backbone for the frame we are erecting together.
I think we are ALL looking for the same things -but a constantly changing shared Lexicon
makes it more difficult to 'flesh out' the frame in a sustainable manner.
This is why we must 'come together' now.
Such reasonable takes. What has happened to crypto discourse?
Awesome show! What Ethan talks about sounds awesome!! Cool idea!!
This is a fantastic discussion
Who can I email with an inquiry about a subscription?
interesting perspectives id never considered.
Great Video! I would like to hear more on how the central banking system has been at the heart of a lot of war and corruption. Capitalism without a central banking system is a viable model in my opinion. The founding fathers warned of a private banking system (AKA Federal Reserve).. Open to hear all possibilities and solutions economically though and change is the only guarantee in this life..
To put it simply...BTC 30% ETH 25% ATOM 25% Speculative OTHERS 20%
For another interesting discussion that could open eyes and doors to perception I will ask you to get
Kunstler from Evmos, Jacob Gadiakin (notional), Sunny Aggarval (Osmosis), and/or Jack Zampolin (Sammolier) as Conceptualization is a necessary step to innovation.
There is a lot of talent out there and when these people come together from each section of interest we will make MAGIC.
Ethans a beast!!!
Where can I read more about CoFi?
@♜WhatsApp㊉①⑥⑤⑦④②⑤⓪⑤⑧④ wat
Prefer composition over inheritance.
Anybody can be a validator.. all you need is $60,000 dollars 🤗
Wow i guess i agree more with cosmos wen/where co-optful podcast??
Love this discussion but, IBM in the 40s? Maybe 60s or 70z. :)
Thomas Watson (CEO of IBM) said "I think there's a world market for maybe five computers" in the 40s. But true 60s or 70s could be better
Machiavelli established his own bank to retake the Florentine Empire.
Fed requires 0% reserves now
25 top addresses own 40 percent Cosmos still?
Bucky coming to drop some truth
Awesome thanks
Lots of good thoughts but ultimately conflating too many obvious concepts. Here are eight:
1. Money is legally an agreement between two or more parties. Setting legal tender laws aside, ANYTHING can be money in private commerce.
2. Currencies are the STANDARDIZATION of "money agreements" - i.e. a One Dollar Federal Reserve Note is a non-interest-bearing promissory note.
3. The FUNCTION of currency is that of LANGUAGE OF VALUE - aka "pricing function" expressed as a unit of account. The largest network effects are attached to that function.
4. The primary USE CASE currency today is lending. All digital government-issued fiat currency is in a constant state of lending, as such strictly speaking there are no 'deposits'.
5. The secondary USE CASE of currency is spending. The client software for the latter might be a web or mobile app, or coded into hardware - i.e. debit cards, ultimately accessing a demand deposit account.
6. Setting physical cash aside, the medium of exchange (MOE) for all currencies - including "cryptocurrencies" - are BYTES. In that respect bitcoin (BTC) uses the same MOE as the US Dollar and other fiat currencies.
7. Globally the leading unit of account (UOA) is US Dollar. In that respect, bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are frequently denominated in USD, with wallet interfaces offering other fiat currency translations.
8. Tokens are STANDARDIZED SMART CONTRACTS built atop a public blockchain, which can be digital bearer instruments (DBIs). DBIs can in principle settle 'instantly' with finality and without a third party.
Ethan Buchman is based as fuck
Every moment in time = modern
In terms of overall system
World is in a Pax Americana now
I wish Ethan would've gone into why he feels the EVM is a non-starter for him.
Tendermint is not compatible with EVM. Different model. Evmos just went live though.
He said that it’s restricting in terms of developing smart contracts - he stated that it has its limits
@@plsreleasethekraken Evmos is literally the EVM on top of Tendermint. This proves that Cosmos (of which Tendermint is a part) is more general than Ethereum. You can run the Ethereum VM in the Cosmos model, and you can run other VMs. It's a more general purpose framework. You can experiment with other VM designs too. You're not locked into the EVM, you have the full scope of possible computing architectures!
@@ethanbuchman7705 yes, I didn't articulate that well in my response. Compatible is the wrong word. I just meant the network, consensus, and application layers operate on a different model fundamentally and aren't isomorphic. But as you mention you can get similar functionality with something like evmos.
great
Purportedly Bachman wanted original atom holders to persist as controllers, maybe completely false?
This is Art i can creatively say whatever the Fuck I want
I don't like DAO because they don't enforce voting, so having a vote is meaningless if its not used. So the few who are active will dominate the DAO. It becomes a oligarchy.
I thought of a model. Where eth is the internet and other blockchains are different networks like TV and Telephone... And cosmos wants to connections between all networks. Bankless thesis though is that eventually the internet becomes so efficient and useful to where the point of using these other networks will become obsolete because they exist on the internet in a more advanced way.
Love these podcasts and that you have people question your thesises btw😘
Somebody needs to be the King
Eating their words. Beautiful.
Kadena = Cosmos POW
Justin drake vs ethan pls
"And first I want tobtell to you about" sponsorblock..
too theoretical discussion, we needed some implementation details
How is a proof of stake chain "anti corruption"? The rich will get richer! Give me a break
It's gunna work out like search engines or social media or any other tech company. Yes, there will always be alternatives if people want to opt out from the market leader, but... The market leader will still own the majority of market share.
This dude believes in the empire modell and doesn’t even know it. This Ep would have had to be 4h long in my opinion. Eventually you would have gotten rid of the distance between your believes and found common ground.
What ?
Except Facebook isnt crumbling. They are a cash cow. llol
lmao have you seen the state of that shitshow lately?
Funny to hear about Bankless not actually being bankless. Haha scammy
See, you can make sense of the crypto space without relying on deranged hyperbole when you know what you're talking about.
Ryan Sean Adams either wears make up or applies a filter 😂
I can’t listen to you guys way to much shillin.
.. such a weak episode. Do you even know which country discovered America? What empire was that? :)))) please guys, if you are going to talk about things you dont know like history, bring real experts, ask and listen.