I cast this one a little bit ago before I had a chance to play the mod so I was confused about a few things: 1. Mind control and movement abilities like stuns don't affect SC2 Ultras cos of their Frenzy ability - SC2 ultras are INSANE in this mod 2. "Maelstrom is bad" - ROFL I thought it was single target OH MY that was a surprise 3. shield batteries in SC1 can heal multiple units if you right click your whole army on it it'll heal a tonne of stuff almost instantly - wayyyyyyyyyy faster healing and can be kinda more powerful than sc2 batteries, but CANNOT be used to heal buildings Thanks for the comments gang! Support the Modders of SC EVO Complete! www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=8FVGCCQ68F8A4
It's funny how people don't seem to understand SC1 shield batteries (but fair, since they're weird). SC1 shield batteries can't restore shields on buildings, and don't automatically use their ability. However, their shield restore speed is extremely fast. The best way to use them is to select your army and right-click on the battery, and once they are in range it will restore shields on everything simultaneously until it runs out of energy. The energy build-up and storage is the true limit of the battery, nothing can actually out-DPS it. In fact, it's probably just simpler to think of them as Warcraft 3 Moon Wells that instantly restore units that drink from them.
I remember watching a team game on big game hunters map, 1 protoss player defending against 3 players. 2 of his allies died, and he's the remaining player on their team. All he did to stay in the game was mass cannons, batteries, high Templar and carriers. If he didn't ran out of money, he could have survived longer.
I believe the Brood War variants have slightly more efficient workers to make up for the lack of mules/injects/chronos, hence why the toss mines out his natural sooner
Agreed. Chrono and inject are on point but not mules. Mules broke the game. A different mechanic should be used other than mules, but these sc2 noobs don't know any better. BW for life.
@IcariumGaming Oh, terran is alive and well and kicking ass. Terran is losing cause toss/zerg has to end the game quickly before the imba mule/bio/turtle mechanics kicks in. In BW, it's so balanced that the match-up is not one-sided once the game commences. Therefore, opening to midgame to end game occurs more often, and it's more SLUGFEST matchup than a ONESIDED matchup. Fighting to the death , broke and pushing for: Carrier, arbs, defilers,queens, ghost nukes, battle cruisers, guardians, guardians, devourer, scourges, dark archons,etc. Sc2? Hahaha, I used the most effective opening to get an initial advantage. Now I can spam an army and f2 FTW! Fun but still a Broken ass game.
I rarely read comments with that much bullshit. Mules are strong but didnt brake the game. Terran is not overpowered. They were for a short time. Then Toss were OP then Zerg but right now its pretty even. If one knows nothing, one should say nothing.
At the end of BW, my favorite play in money game was to steal a drone or a scv with the Dark Archons and to build both races to 200/200. It was insane lol
I don't remember seeing maelstrom very much in the few pro BW matches I've seen. High templar are much cheaper, and storm has very high odds of just killing everything it touches.
@@Pathogen7 You can still navigate out of the storms and mutas are kind of used to snipe high templars, so it is a double edged sword. Usually, archonsa are used vs mass muta styles, to protect an area, since it is almost impossible for mutas to fight vs archons, but they can circumwent them. Dark archons are kind of the ultimate answer to mass mutas, as with one click, they can immobilize infinite amount of them, which guarantees their death in most cases.
@@Pathogen7 the reason you don’t see DA used often in pro matches is that the time and resources needed to invest into DA slows down toss. But in a full-on maxed out scenario on both side where there’s stalling maxed out airtoss, DA shines; which rarely happens. DA’s spells are powerful, just in the scenario of how pros (in the very top tournaments) goes about it currently aren’t open for DA as opposed to you seeing it anywhere else (ladder, random games, non-ASL league).
If you think storm is OP remember it used to one shot lurker. That get patched fairly early. There were other changes also... like you could parasite your own unit and make it detector. That was the early days of Broodwar. Yes, fun days.
@@tohothewriter8002 Wow. I don't remember that. I was StarCraft player from start until Broodwar came. And few years later. It's been +20 years, maybe I forgot some quirks. You know what, I'd like to get those pre-patch versions. Oh, nostalgia.
@@MsHojat It does. Parasited unit become detector for you. And like I said, you could parasite your own units. I know, because that was my MO back then. Troling opponents. Back when LAN was a thing.
Reaver scarabs are not random in Starcraft: Brood War. They act like a tiny Infested Terran that has one target and he moves towards it to explode and he will die when his timer runs out without exploding. So they use regular ground unit pathfinding and they can be blocked by other units and forced to move in the wrong direction.
It is random, they path through the mineral lines not like a normal unit but just weirdly. No one can really predict what will happen with the scarabs in all cases, so they are random. Does not really matter how they are coded deterministically etc.
@@oguzcanoguz5977 All units walk randomly inside other units/buildings. SCVs do the same after finishing a building or when pushing each other into minerals. You can kind of steer them a bit unlike scarabs.
The problem is the pathfinding in brood war is divided into zones by the mapmakers. Some zones around ramps are very small, and some on open terrain are very big, and they all have weird shapes. The way reaver scarabs work is that they detonate after traveling through I believe 2 zones. And the reaver wont shoot if the target is more than 2 zone transitions away. So, they can miss a unit down a ramp thats pretty close and in open terrain hit a unit thats running away across 2 screens. Also as mentioned by others the pathfinding is jank and they can randomly get stuck on stuff or not.
@@oguzcanoguz5977 I believe Karpai's point was that Scrab's pathing is just as good/bad as other ground units. Sometimes you can force a scrab to go through minerals if you shove the Reaver against it, something similar can occur if you have vultures lay mines next to minerals, and the vulture randomly floats over the minerals. It's unintuitive in game, but if you can see the map zones that allow the path finding to work, it is a lot more understandable. The only thing Scarabs don't seem to do is try to retreat if they can't find a viable path forwards.
Remember the old fungal that was instant and root targets entirely? The one that was so OP that it got entirely reworked into a slow+projectile? Yeah, Maelstrom does that, except it has like triple the duration and double the area.
General rule of basically every BW spell: it's way more busted than you think it is. It'll be a huge AoE, or it'll last a stupidly long time like 60 seconds, or have nutty range or provide complete immunity or something. When they were designing BW they just did not have 400 APM players in mind, so they dialed the spells way up so that even low APM players could get value out of spells.
Starcraft 1 didn't have smart cast, so it made doing things like Psionic Storm, Disruption Web, Dark Swarm, Stasis, Irradiate, Lockdown, Plague, Maelstrom much harder to use. Because of this the spells were made to be strong. Units also didn't clump up much in Starcraft 1 and only 12 could be selected at a time, so AoE effects also had to be larger to be effective. It's why Psionic Storm shrunk so much and reduced damage going from SC1 to SC2. Keep in mind that regarding Maelstrom specifically, it's an ability for a 250/200 cost (even higher when you consider that you might only ever build 2-4 of them total, making the upgrades increase their effective cost) unit that cannot attack. I don't think there is any sort of equivalent unit in Starcraft 2 (expensive caster that cannot attack; closest thing kind of being the mothership)
Im having a lot of fun watching and playing this mode. I've been playing 3v3 random races and random game (sc1 and sc2 units): the amount of different synergies, new ones, its incredible.
The mind control for Protoss mod, is easy to change over, as any unit typially adds to the total pool of 200, but the supply is separated into races, which wouldn't be hard to change. You have the supply count when yo uahve an opposing race, to add to and then reveal your supply of that race. THis would make more sense as it was. Just an interpretation of how it counts. Mind contorl adds to that races total. However, its pretty broken.
I think the maps with more minerals, like Fighting Spirit, are more fun to play. The maps in SC2 after Legacy of the Void have fewer resources and feel more like a chase, whereas these older maps are more laid back and feel more like players are pulling out everything have.
Agree. I think it was mentioned that it was to prevent the game become too long (and boring). Players are forced to move on to other locations (with the risk of being attacked) rather than protecting main base(s) amd resources at all cost for far too long.
The reason Reavers are less effective in SC1 is due to its jank pathing AI making units spread out a lot, so splash damage is mitigated by auto-splits at engine level. No amount of messing with scarab pathing AI will change that. Besides, the whole reason to implement Brood War units in SC2 and not the other way around, is to avoid SC1 engine jank.
If Mind Contorl doesn't work, then it's definitely a bug, as it was working on any unit in SC1: transports, Ultras, Carriers, BCs AND Heroes. Ultras in SC2 can be overlord transported, right? Can these be Mind Controlled in Evo?
Dragoons alone don't make an army capable of much. Don't mistake this to mean you should never have goons in your army composition, just not engage without a substancial Zealot meatshield. Also, pickup range is not a thing in SC1 like it is for SC2 transport units. Scarab splash damage is very small, beyond the initial targeted hit, which is why it feels like the area isn't always hitting as many units one would expect, and sometimes killing more than anticipated. 🤣 Psionic Storm deals 14 damage in 8-frames intervals, starting from the 16th frame after cast, resulting in 8 damage instances over 64 frames, or 3 seconds, for a total of 112 damage to ALL units in the area. Source: StarCraft Wiki High Templar page.
Of course. One I know for sure is that I watched TvT in the "early days" of SC1 v SC2 (like a month ago, maybe a bit more). Ok, might not be early days per se but were very very few on youtube, before big names like PIG or Lowko casting them.
yeah I cast this one a little while ago before realising that frenzy stopped mind control as well as all movement abilities. I reckon SC2 ultras seem a bit broken in this mod haha
PiG: "Maelstrom isn't a good ability." Maelstrom + Storm has always been a cheesy play in BW lol. It's such a large aoe that it's DA are one of the most broken units which is why we don't have it in SC2. SC1 Hydra is also better than SC2, very supply efficient and also ease of access to lurker set up. The SC1 Ultra also has splash dmg, not sure if it has lower dps than SC2 Ultras. Overall, SC1 units generally are a lot better because they're bulkier and stronger. Spells are incredibly broken. What held them back was the BW engine and now that the units are adapted into the SC2 engine and have the fluidity of SC2 units. This only makes them even better. But the biggest setback for SC1 races are the lack of macro mechanics such as recall, warp-in, queens, reactors, etc...,
Do you play brood war or something nerdy like that? Cause you clearly don’t watch pro sc1. I think in like 5 seasons of asl I’ve seen may be 1 dark archon
@@llanowar90 Do you watch anything outside of ASL? Because I can tell you DA is used. The reason you rarely see it in ASL matches is because the way pro matches are played, there’s little room for investment into DA as it forces you to be on the defensive and less aggression on toss. If you’re just going to use the very 1% as example, actually be able to differentiate that the pacing is far different from every other league/game modes. You don’t see it used at the very top because aggressive plays are preferred. DA is a very late transition afterall.
@@deputyd5422 I agree, I don;t know why everyone quickly judge it is broken. Maybe, maybe not, people just need to figure out the answer for it. This is why we can;t have nice things, everything called OP/broken will be excessively nerfed or the abilities removed, everything used to be nice would be just plain weak and boring, even useless.
@@kizzagaming6523 Correct. You need to right click the battery in order to heal it. But on a bright side you can heal multiple units, tho it will burn all the battery's energy at once.
@@DrDev1L Sure about that? Pretty sure it can't heal multiples at once, it prioritizes one at a time I thought and wihle they're being healed they're incapacitated (in brood war at least)
I would liek to see some lurker range action... that may be quite good against sc1 protoss, ina z2 v p1 I don't remember maelstrom being that good... lol.. but wow. It might be that radii is selected range and not hte grid box for each unit in sc1... so in this regard, a maximum definable grid limit should be bargained for ... or a much smaller radius but that might not help with out its interpretating the units location to what then gest stunned... hmmm. overlapping couldn't happen like that in the unit system... hmm...
Wasnt early SC2 having zealots starting with 2 armor...or was it stalkers didnt have any base armor?? I remember zealots being extremely tanky if you got ur armor upgrades out early with a +1 advantage; or am I not thinking back far enough...did sc1 zealots have 2 armor??? Cuz I always went attack first vs zerg to get the 2 shot on zerglings vs 3 hits w zealots and armor vs terran cuz it drastically reduced marine dmg to zealots hp, especially with the century shield spell
I was specifically told these two players wanted their identities kept secret whereas I've been given other replays of MC that I've cast. Maybe Arty had some inside info though, cheers
In SC2 allied scv can repair mechanical protoss but in SC1 they could not. In both brood war and SC2 medics / medivacs can heal allied biological units including zealots and ultralisks.
I'm pretty sure sc1 was balanced for normal people rather than for the pros that have 500+APM. Thus the spells are more powerful, macro mechanics didn't exist and neither do super micro units like reapers and oracles. It was honestly a better game for normal people, just not for pro play which is less than 1% of the games.
You're wrong about batteries being useless. You just have to get used to using them manually, but the big thing is that they will recharge multiple units simultaneously.
I think if this is going to be a long term commit some serious discussion needs to be had about bringing back some of the busted but removed or nerfed things from SC2. The spells from the SC1 are just ridiculous... so ridiculous infested terran seems reasonable.
sc 2 ultra infestor would destroy sc1 protoss. fungal can prevent any spell from a faster range just for long enough for them to close the distance, and if you keep chaining the fungal which is easy on such an army, they cant use storm. without immortals, there is no way to ever be cost effective in such a situation. stalkers are fast and can blink away into and out of corners so they are good against ultras without fungal , dragoons are slower and how no blink. even just ultras did very well, and you could tell that storm was the only thing that really did damage to them fast enough.
SC II Ultras are just to hard for SC I Protos! Maybe the Mind-Control taktik is realy the road to take. At least, I can't think of an other conter. Maybe corsair, dt?? Killing all the overseers, so the DTs can take on the ultras? I realy don't now... And yes, I saw in other matches, how poorly carias are, agains SC II zerg.... This match was the beste SC I vs SC II match I've seen so far! ❤ btw: SC I Bateries not only have to be targeted manual (but you can target a selected unit TO the baterie), they alsow can't heal the shields of buildings, thow alsow not canons. And you can tell, Dennis ist not a SC I player. Otherwise he would have produced corsairs, insted of scouts, to conter the bruts 😂😂👍
SC2 Ultras are immune to mind control, slows, and stuns (including arbiter stasis and DA maelstrom). About the only direct answer BW Protoss has is the Corsair d-web, and DT fences if you can remove detection.
@@PiGstarcraft Every single SC1 spellcaster is OP, no exception. And no SC1 spell is outright bad. A few are decent everything else is OP. SC1 casters are balanced around it being really hard to micromanage stuff. Since SC2 removes that, they can go crazy.
I cast this one a little bit ago before I had a chance to play the mod so I was confused about a few things:
1. Mind control and movement abilities like stuns don't affect SC2 Ultras cos of their Frenzy ability - SC2 ultras are INSANE in this mod
2. "Maelstrom is bad" - ROFL I thought it was single target OH MY that was a surprise
3. shield batteries in SC1 can heal multiple units if you right click your whole army on it it'll heal a tonne of stuff almost instantly - wayyyyyyyyyy faster healing and can be kinda more powerful than sc2 batteries, but CANNOT be used to heal buildings
Thanks for the comments gang!
Support the Modders of SC EVO Complete! www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=8FVGCCQ68F8A4
It's funny how people don't seem to understand SC1 shield batteries (but fair, since they're weird).
SC1 shield batteries can't restore shields on buildings, and don't automatically use their ability. However, their shield restore speed is extremely fast. The best way to use them is to select your army and right-click on the battery, and once they are in range it will restore shields on everything simultaneously until it runs out of energy. The energy build-up and storage is the true limit of the battery, nothing can actually out-DPS it.
In fact, it's probably just simpler to think of them as Warcraft 3 Moon Wells that instantly restore units that drink from them.
I remember watching a team game on big game hunters map, 1 protoss player defending against 3 players. 2 of his allies died, and he's the remaining player on their team. All he did to stay in the game was mass cannons, batteries, high Templar and carriers. If he didn't ran out of money, he could have survived longer.
I believe the Brood War variants have slightly more efficient workers to make up for the lack of mules/injects/chronos, hence why the toss mines out his natural sooner
Agreed.
Chrono and inject are on point but not mules. Mules broke the game.
A different mechanic should be used other than mules, but these sc2 noobs don't know any better. BW for life.
@@orangepearlf40"mules broke the game" If that was the case why is Terran not winning every match? Be realistic.
@IcariumGaming Oh, terran is alive and well and kicking ass.
Terran is losing cause toss/zerg has to end the game quickly before the imba mule/bio/turtle mechanics kicks in.
In BW, it's so balanced that the match-up is not one-sided once the game commences.
Therefore, opening to midgame to end game occurs more often, and it's more SLUGFEST matchup than a ONESIDED matchup.
Fighting to the death , broke and pushing for:
Carrier, arbs, defilers,queens, ghost nukes, battle cruisers, guardians, guardians, devourer, scourges, dark archons,etc.
Sc2? Hahaha, I used the most effective opening to get an initial advantage. Now I can spam an army and f2 FTW! Fun but still a Broken ass game.
I rarely read comments with that much bullshit. Mules are strong but didnt brake the game. Terran is not overpowered. They were for a short time. Then Toss were OP then Zerg but right now its pretty even. If one knows nothing, one should say nothing.
@@orangepearlf40 Show me esl level sc1 games with nukes and devourers
At the end of BW, my favorite play in money game was to steal a drone or a scv with the Dark Archons and to build both races to 200/200. It was insane lol
Maelstorm in BW was also just flat out busted, but was hard to get to economically and use and keep the dark archon alive.
I don't remember seeing maelstrom very much in the few pro BW matches I've seen. High templar are much cheaper, and storm has very high odds of just killing everything it touches.
@@Pathogen7 You can still navigate out of the storms and mutas are kind of used to snipe high templars, so it is a double edged sword.
Usually, archonsa are used vs mass muta styles, to protect an area, since it is almost impossible for mutas to fight vs archons, but they can circumwent them.
Dark archons are kind of the ultimate answer to mass mutas, as with one click, they can immobilize infinite amount of them, which guarantees their death in most cases.
@@Pathogen7 the reason you don’t see DA used often in pro matches is that the time and resources needed to invest into DA slows down toss. But in a full-on maxed out scenario on both side where there’s stalling maxed out airtoss, DA shines; which rarely happens.
DA’s spells are powerful, just in the scenario of how pros (in the very top tournaments) goes about it currently aren’t open for DA as opposed to you seeing it anywhere else (ladder, random games, non-ASL league).
If you think storm is OP remember it used to one shot lurker. That get patched fairly early. There were other changes also... like you could parasite your own unit and make it detector.
That was the early days of Broodwar. Yes, fun days.
You forget an SCV "healing" Marines by repairing them... which got patched really early on! Like, WAAAAAAY before Medic was ever a unit.
@@tohothewriter8002
Wow. I don't remember that. I was StarCraft player from start until Broodwar came. And few years later.
It's been +20 years, maybe I forgot some quirks.
You know what, I'd like to get those pre-patch versions. Oh, nostalgia.
I don't know what you're talking about. The only change to Parasite was its energy cost and range. It never gave a unit detector capability.
@@MsHojat
It does. Parasited unit become detector for you. And like I said, you could parasite your own units.
I know, because that was my MO back then. Troling opponents. Back when LAN was a thing.
Reaver scarabs are not random in Starcraft: Brood War. They act like a tiny Infested Terran that has one target and he moves towards it to explode and he will die when his timer runs out without exploding.
So they use regular ground unit pathfinding and they can be blocked by other units and forced to move in the wrong direction.
It is random, they path through the mineral lines not like a normal unit but just weirdly. No one can really predict what will happen with the scarabs in all cases, so they are random. Does not really matter how they are coded deterministically etc.
@@oguzcanoguz5977 All units walk randomly inside other units/buildings.
SCVs do the same after finishing a building or when pushing each other into minerals.
You can kind of steer them a bit unlike scarabs.
@@karpai5427 Interesting, but sounds like you are explaining why they are random after claiming that they were not random.
The problem is the pathfinding in brood war is divided into zones by the mapmakers. Some zones around ramps are very small, and some on open terrain are very big, and they all have weird shapes.
The way reaver scarabs work is that they detonate after traveling through I believe 2 zones. And the reaver wont shoot if the target is more than 2 zone transitions away.
So, they can miss a unit down a ramp thats pretty close and in open terrain hit a unit thats running away across 2 screens.
Also as mentioned by others the pathfinding is jank and they can randomly get stuck on stuff or not.
@@oguzcanoguz5977 I believe Karpai's point was that Scrab's pathing is just as good/bad as other ground units. Sometimes you can force a scrab to go through minerals if you shove the Reaver against it, something similar can occur if you have vultures lay mines next to minerals, and the vulture randomly floats over the minerals. It's unintuitive in game, but if you can see the map zones that allow the path finding to work, it is a lot more understandable. The only thing Scarabs don't seem to do is try to retreat if they can't find a viable path forwards.
Remember the old fungal that was instant and root targets entirely? The one that was so OP that it got entirely reworked into a slow+projectile? Yeah, Maelstrom does that, except it has like triple the duration and double the area.
6:40 Apparently in bw reavers did had a bit of "stun" when you unload them from a shuttle, apparently for the exact same reason why you have it here.
General rule of basically every BW spell: it's way more busted than you think it is. It'll be a huge AoE, or it'll last a stupidly long time like 60 seconds, or have nutty range or provide complete immunity or something.
When they were designing BW they just did not have 400 APM players in mind, so they dialed the spells way up so that even low APM players could get value out of spells.
Starcraft 1 didn't have smart cast, so it made doing things like Psionic Storm, Disruption Web, Dark Swarm, Stasis, Irradiate, Lockdown, Plague, Maelstrom much harder to use. Because of this the spells were made to be strong. Units also didn't clump up much in Starcraft 1 and only 12 could be selected at a time, so AoE effects also had to be larger to be effective.
It's why Psionic Storm shrunk so much and reduced damage going from SC1 to SC2.
Keep in mind that regarding Maelstrom specifically, it's an ability for a 250/200 cost (even higher when you consider that you might only ever build 2-4 of them total, making the upgrades increase their effective cost) unit that cannot attack. I don't think there is any sort of equivalent unit in Starcraft 2 (expensive caster that cannot attack; closest thing kind of being the mothership)
The energy upgrades give +50 maximum energy and +12 starting energy in brood war
From what I've seen SC1 terran and zerg are getting hammered, but SC1 protoss has been putting in work.
Batteries don't charge buildings. Also you can right click units on the battery to charge multiple units at a time.
SC1 Battery is good.
sc2 battery better.
@@kingpet no the sc1 battery can charge multiple units at the same time, its kinda broken
I am absolutely loving these games. I want to see a BW vs SC2 mirror matchup.
Im having a lot of fun watching and playing this mode. I've been playing 3v3 random races and random game (sc1 and sc2 units): the amount of different synergies, new ones, its incredible.
I love how close these games are. I though one or the other would dominate, but really it could have gone either way the whole game
Mind control normally doesn't work on SC2 Ultras, but they should change it so it does. Otherwise SC1 Toss has no counter to them.
The mind control for Protoss mod, is easy to change over, as any unit typially adds to the total pool of 200, but the supply is separated into races, which wouldn't be hard to change. You have the supply count when yo uahve an opposing race, to add to and then reveal your supply of that race. THis would make more sense as it was. Just an interpretation of how it counts. Mind contorl adds to that races total. However, its pretty broken.
Dark archons were one of my favorite units in all of StarCraft with the original mothership with core
I think the maps with more minerals, like Fighting Spirit, are more fun to play. The maps in SC2 after Legacy of the Void have fewer resources and feel more like a chase, whereas these older maps are more laid back and feel more like players are pulling out everything have.
Agree. I think it was mentioned that it was to prevent the game become too long (and boring). Players are forced to move on to other locations (with the risk of being attacked) rather than protecting main base(s) amd resources at all cost for far too long.
The reason Reavers are less effective in SC1 is due to its jank pathing AI making units spread out a lot, so splash damage is mitigated by auto-splits at engine level. No amount of messing with scarab pathing AI will change that. Besides, the whole reason to implement Brood War units in SC2 and not the other way around, is to avoid SC1 engine jank.
I believe dark archon maelstrom and mind control should NOT work on ultralisk, as they have frenzy. I am unsure of how it actually work, however.
If Mind Contorl doesn't work, then it's definitely a bug, as it was working on any unit in SC1: transports, Ultras, Carriers, BCs AND Heroes.
Ultras in SC2 can be overlord transported, right? Can these be Mind Controlled in Evo?
I was waiting for someone with good micro to pull of maelstrom+storm against bio units.
SC2 and SC1 in one game is crazy
This is the SC3 that we will never have
Shield batteries in sc1 cant heal buildings
I would have bet money that maelstrom was single target in Brood War. I apparently need to go look again.
stasis into malestrom into psionic storm seems unreasonably powerful against sc2 zerg, if protoss actually had a decent counter to ultralisks....
If only the zerg player knew about parasitic bomb, he would have killed those shuttles a lot sooner with the vipers.
Artosis have some really coold SC1 vs SC2 games on hes channel, with MC, the boss toss.
Dragoons alone don't make an army capable of much. Don't mistake this to mean you should never have goons in your army composition, just not engage without a substancial Zealot meatshield. Also, pickup range is not a thing in SC1 like it is for SC2 transport units. Scarab splash damage is very small, beyond the initial targeted hit, which is why it feels like the area isn't always hitting as many units one would expect, and sometimes killing more than anticipated. 🤣
Psionic Storm deals 14 damage in 8-frames intervals, starting from the 16th frame after cast, resulting in 8 damage instances over 64 frames, or 3 seconds, for a total of 112 damage to ALL units in the area. Source: StarCraft Wiki High Templar page.
are there any "mirror" matches? sc1 toss vs s2 toss for example?
Of course. One I know for sure is that I watched TvT in the "early days" of SC1 v SC2 (like a month ago, maybe a bit more). Ok, might not be early days per se but were very very few on youtube, before big names like PIG or Lowko casting them.
The strom animation is mindblowing. So much cooler than SC2
Protoss have so much more initiative in this mode than in the standard sc2. This is how the race should have been designed.
You cant mind control ultralisk they had frenzy ability so they cant be controled by infestors or dark archons.
yeah I cast this one a little while ago before realising that frenzy stopped mind control as well as all movement abilities. I reckon SC2 ultras seem a bit broken in this mod haha
PiG: "Maelstrom isn't a good ability."
Maelstrom + Storm has always been a cheesy play in BW lol. It's such a large aoe that it's DA are one of the most broken units which is why we don't have it in SC2.
SC1 Hydra is also better than SC2, very supply efficient and also ease of access to lurker set up. The SC1 Ultra also has splash dmg, not sure if it has lower dps than SC2 Ultras.
Overall, SC1 units generally are a lot better because they're bulkier and stronger. Spells are incredibly broken. What held them back was the BW engine and now that the units are adapted into the SC2 engine and have the fluidity of SC2 units. This only makes them even better. But the biggest setback for SC1 races are the lack of macro mechanics such as recall, warp-in, queens, reactors, etc...,
Dennis is definitely a SC2 player because SC1 players builds a good amount of Dark Archons for all those sweet spells.
Do you play brood war or something nerdy like that? Cause you clearly don’t watch pro sc1. I think in like 5 seasons of asl I’ve seen may be 1 dark archon
@@llanowar90 Do you watch anything outside of ASL? Because I can tell you DA is used. The reason you rarely see it in ASL matches is because the way pro matches are played, there’s little room for investment into DA as it forces you to be on the defensive and less aggression on toss.
If you’re just going to use the very 1% as example, actually be able to differentiate that the pacing is far different from every other league/game modes. You don’t see it used at the very top because aggressive plays are preferred. DA is a very late transition afterall.
Brood War power
It's a Dark Archon, dammit. They have been outlawed FOR A REASON.
Protoss def needed it. Storm just isn't scary on it's own. Lings can pretty much run through it
@@deputyd5422 I agree, I don;t know why everyone quickly judge it is broken. Maybe, maybe not, people just need to figure out the answer for it. This is why we can;t have nice things, everything called OP/broken will be excessively nerfed or the abilities removed, everything used to be nice would be just plain weak and boring, even useless.
not sure if they changed it but in sc1 shield batteries could only shield units i think if i remember right
Shield batteries in SC 1 required the unit to be immobile while having shields recharged, and only worked on units correct
@@kizzagaming6523 Correct. You need to right click the battery in order to heal it. But on a bright side you can heal multiple units, tho it will burn all the battery's energy at once.
Yep, they can't heal structures.
@@DrDev1L Sure about that? Pretty sure it can't heal multiples at once, it prioritizes one at a time I thought and wihle they're being healed they're incapacitated (in brood war at least)
Fighting spirit is the map! Love BW
Dennis the menace!
shuttle speed upgrade is in BW. Did they not add it to this mod?
yeah it's in there, super essential upgrade
I would liek to see some lurker range action... that may be quite good against sc1 protoss, ina z2 v p1
I don't remember maelstrom being that good... lol.. but wow. It might be that radii is selected range and not hte grid box for each unit in sc1... so in this regard, a maximum definable grid limit should be bargained for ... or a much smaller radius but that might not help with out its interpretating the units location to what then gest stunned... hmmm. overlapping couldn't happen like that in the unit system... hmm...
SC1 vs SC2 is the new meta!
Wasnt early SC2 having zealots starting with 2 armor...or was it stalkers didnt have any base armor?? I remember zealots being extremely tanky if you got ur armor upgrades out early with a +1 advantage; or am I not thinking back far enough...did sc1 zealots have 2 armor??? Cuz I always went attack first vs zerg to get the 2 shot on zerglings vs 3 hits w zealots and armor vs terran cuz it drastically reduced marine dmg to zealots hp, especially with the century shield spell
Never understood why they aren't called Darchons
Mm. You could neural a dark archon and mind control a probe, or an arbiter
I saw this on artosis’ channel, the Protoss is MC
I was specifically told these two players wanted their identities kept secret whereas I've been given other replays of MC that I've cast. Maybe Arty had some inside info though, cheers
Hell of a game 🔥👍
SC1 T and P lacks effective air. Thats the main problem I see, they are simply less flexible.
So can you repair mechanical Protoss units with a mind-controlled SCV? And heal them with a controlled medivac?
Umm... I think not.
But I'm not sure.
Can someone check?
In SC2 allied scv can repair mechanical protoss but in SC1 they could not.
In both brood war and SC2 medics / medivacs can heal allied biological units including zealots and ultralisks.
8:45: 😏
24:32: This is a contender for worst micro ever.
26:00: Pig contender for most oblivious ever ;p
I'm pretty sure sc1 was balanced for normal people rather than for the pros that have 500+APM. Thus the spells are more powerful, macro mechanics didn't exist and neither do super micro units like reapers and oracles. It was honestly a better game for normal people, just not for pro play which is less than 1% of the games.
You're wrong about batteries being useless. You just have to get used to using them manually, but the big thing is that they will recharge multiple units simultaneously.
I think if this is going to be a long term commit some serious discussion needs to be had about bringing back some of the busted but removed or nerfed things from SC2. The spells from the SC1 are just ridiculous... so ridiculous infested terran seems reasonable.
sc 2 ultra infestor would destroy sc1 protoss. fungal can prevent any spell from a faster range just for long enough for them to close the distance, and if you keep chaining the fungal which is easy on such an army, they cant use storm. without immortals, there is no way to ever be cost effective in such a situation. stalkers are fast and can blink away into and out of corners so they are good against ultras without fungal , dragoons are slower and how no blink. even just ultras did very well, and you could tell that storm was the only thing that really did damage to them fast enough.
How can anyone who has seen even a minute of RTS gameplay in their life not understand how AoE stun is good?
I thought they'd abuse Mind Control.
doesn't stasis wards work on ultras? arbiter stasis not working on ultras seem like a bug. stasis isn't a stun.
HT+DT = Mael-Storm.
He had to kill the pylon to place the nexus it wasn’t a misclick
22:44 There is a hole in the water. BAD MAP!
SC II Ultras are just to hard for SC I Protos! Maybe the Mind-Control taktik is realy the road to take. At least, I can't think of an other conter. Maybe corsair, dt?? Killing all the overseers, so the DTs can take on the ultras? I realy don't now... And yes, I saw in other matches, how poorly carias are, agains SC II zerg.... This match was the beste SC I vs SC II match I've seen so far! ❤
btw: SC I Bateries not only have to be targeted manual (but you can target a selected unit TO the baterie), they alsow can't heal the shields of buildings, thow alsow not canons.
And you can tell, Dennis ist not a SC I player. Otherwise he would have produced corsairs, insted of scouts, to conter the bruts 😂😂👍
Reavers and dragoons are both pretty good against sc2 ultras. Protoss just need to learn to split against splash damage.
SC2 Ultras are immune to mind control, slows, and stuns (including arbiter stasis and DA maelstrom). About the only direct answer BW Protoss has is the Corsair d-web, and DT fences if you can remove detection.
sc2 ultras have the Frenzy ability, they cant be maelstromed or mind controlled!
They seem broken because, sc2 trends to balling units up, of course theyll be good.
Protoss BW race in the sc2 engine is God tier, Zerg and Terran bw feels mediocre in sc2.
please show sc evo complete crossover
I dont think thats a stun, i think they just take that long to shoot.
Protoss got nerfed way too much.. just to accomodate humans of their universe.. by humans of our universe..
I hoped we get the real names of the Players at the end of the vid😢😂
They always break the game if your good enough to use them or have bots in the game.
Did... did you just call Maelstrom bad?
haha I immediately found out how OP that stun is with sc2 clumping
@@PiGstarcraft Every single SC1 spellcaster is OP, no exception. And no SC1 spell is outright bad. A few are decent everything else is OP. SC1 casters are balanced around it being really hard to micromanage stuff. Since SC2 removes that, they can go crazy.
it's hilarious seeing SC2 content creators realize how fucked SC1 protoss is