I just hit level 11 doing a combination of solo/group and yes - once you find a good place with appropriate mobs, solo grinding is far faster than group xp. it makes no sense.
@@bobthor9647 it depends a lot on your class and willing to explore and find good spots to level. I think from 12-17 I killed a lot of bears in AVP and stuff in the north part of wilds end. Then from 17-21 as wizard I was farming stuff in eastern plains
Solo xp is very fast till about 12 then slows down for a variety of reasons, most of them class related like poor skill scaling. Solo to 20+ and let us know how fast it was when you are competing for the same 10 long respawn mobs with 3-4 other players. The problem is the calc for group XP.
@@Ykesha at 21 on a lower pop server I've had pretty little mob competition since level 18 or so it seems like, but that's not to doubt what you're saying. I think it'd only take like 2-3 other folks soloing in the same area to start slowing things down roaming for respawns
First class i rolled was a Monk. Had some issues at first but I've got all of my level soloing. They need to make grouping a big draw. More xp, and better drops just for being in a group might help.
Soloed my Summoner to 11 before my first group (on my Shaman). The benefit for a group doesn't just have to be xp per hour. Group mobs have better drops, I can work on quests I cannot solo, and the social aspect is a nice change of pace after hours alone.
Wow i noticed this too, i was telling my bud i feel like i can kill blue mobs and gain the same xp as in groups. He didn't agree, but he was a warrior. Also, i dont like grouping mainly because loot is so scarce. So not only is it a slow grind, but i dont make any money for my trouble. Wish the gear made a noticeable difference in damage or defense like a level does. You have to equip at least 4 new upgrades to notice a change. Im still low level, but gear should make things easier, but it doesn't feel that way.
I started Warrior and had so much trouble soloing, even blue mobs will kill me, whereas with a necro I've been able to solo GROUP MOBS BY MYSELF! or solo enemies that are orange with ease.
They just need to rebuff the group XP like prior to the goblin nerfs in the beginning of the December. I have a 20 monk that I mostly soloed from 12 to 18 and didn't want to do HC groups, but now after they implemented AVP orcs, I am loving grouping again
Halnirs Cave has an XP modifier that trumps open world solo and group XP not to mention high coin, comparatively. Even a death or two is better XP in HC. The issue has become more players listen to anecdotes like in this video and no longer group. Don't be misled.
The solo aspect is what had my attention. Not interested in trying to find/group up with a bunch of old grognards who are allergic to showers and are chronically unemployed.
Pretty sure who they are in real life doesnt really matter. Most oldschool players on a average are better off financially . Seriously do you sit there and wonder if the dude your playing with took a shower or has a job ? if so, stay solo
In my experience it takes +50 to +100% XP bonus for dungeon groups for most people to risk it or they will just solo to higher level and farm the gear later. VR is aware and are increasing XP for both groups and dungeon mobs, but they are raising it too little and too slowly. The problem is they have raised the solo XP so much that if they did raise the group dungeon XP by ~+75% it would be way too fast. That means solo XP has to be reduced and then group dungeon XP bonus increased, but then everyone will whine about solo XP being too slow. They want to please both (soloers and groupers) and want to control their rates of leveling with as little work as necessary (if there were enough horizontal progression and end game content then group dungeon XP bonus making people level too fast wouldn't be an issue) so instead they want to lure people into dungeon groups without the XP bonus, for gear etc, but it's not working. Hopefully they realize all this during early access and dial in the XP enough to incentivize grouping at the appropriate levels instead of solo farming. Maybe making Mastery Points slow again will fix the issue of dungeon groups making you level too fast and they can make the desired changes. They have 2-3 years to work on it, I'm not getting worried yet. Thanks for the great video explaining the issue though.
group exp should just be equal exp for everyone, plus 10%. So 2 players each mob should be 55% of the normal exp. 3: 36% 4: 27,5% 5: 22% and 6 people 18,33%. And then of course they must balance all the classes better.
@KriddleKraddle yeah but addon's are still a grey area and not worth not paying attention when they do a hard stance and get banned granted I do understand stand the absolute need for addon's to not be free for all open because a tom tom or rare spawn scanner or body tracker would absolutely destroy the game. I think when we get closer to launch or maybe sooner then later he should utilize steam workshop for approved addon's
@@scottadavis8086 except here's the thing we don't want to play a theme park mmo; most of us that primarily solo do so because we dont have 2-4 hours to invest in playing every time we sit down to play. 2 things can be true at he same time; we want a old-school style hard mmo with consequences, while not always having the time to invest into gro content.
I've only done soloing so far(over 100 hours of play and achieved level 9) and not grouped at all and leveling seems pretty slow and am having to stick to green con mobs. If I try to tackle a blue con mob, I die and de-level and have to re-arrange my hotbars due to not being able to use previous skills/spells anymore. I'm using noob gear though, so who knows if things would be better if I had decent gear to equip. Playing as Necromancer.
@@thomasatreides7134 Lots of exploring, harvesting and climbing around to see how many hidden treasure chests I could find. Was not fighting the whole time. Plus had to account for deaths due to de-leveling.
Best XP is in a small group with 2-3 people, but it's still a group. You don't need a full group for it to be a group. Go find non-chev mobs with high density and kill as fast as possible. Can get a level in 4 hours in early 20s. No one is doing that solo. Full group xp is a bit slower maybe, but ya.. you get loot (important materials found only in dungeons) and money, and actually dungeon crawl which is the best part of the game. So do you play a game only for efficiency or to have fun? there's absolutely no issues with xp unless you're just racing to max level which would be completely pointless since the content is limited. EEdit: Albeit, I play with friends on discord and they don't suck so maybe thats why my opinion is what it is. Pugs can be quite brutal.
I don't feel like every class in the game has to have the same capacity to solo. Playing a warrior or a cleric you might be sacrificing some of your ability to solo efficiently. This is supposed to be an immersive fantasy world after all. I'm not saying there's no improvement to be made, obviously the game is in an early state. The benefit of being in a group doesn't come down to only efficiency and xp. Being in a group means that instead of doing everything yourself, you are playing your part and it's a different gameplay experience. Though I'm probably stating the obvious. An MMO like this shines despite it's flaws, just as EQ shined despite what many would consider it's flaws. That being said I'm interested in seeing the further development of the game, it's a great game that satisfies the niche.
As a ranger who can efficiently solo with almost zero downtime pov, for me it's the issue of having to choose between many hours of grinding non-stop vs a group that might disband in 2 hours. manor and orc camp are great group stuff but once you've put ur hours in there and out leveled it, you don't have a easy to find group spot after that where people congregate cause not enough people of the level around and not many options that don't take a ton of effort. I personally would prefer to group if I could easily find them because the thing people don't realize about solo'ing is that you're not solo'ing humanoids generally. It's all wildlife that drop basically nothing aka no money for spells.
Early on solo xp should be decent, further in the game it shouild slow down and make grouping more viable. Other attraction to grouping, is drops. They need just need to balance risk vs reward. In regards to Class effiency and who can solo, keep in mind, classes are balance towards group PVE, not solo. Sure they can touch up some abilities, but main balance should be group play. They can even go as far as adding one ability that is substantial, but you cant use it in a group. We do not want to balance for solo, were basically leaning towards WoW if we do that. There will always be classes that solo better than another, again VR can seek to narrow that divide slightly, but pretty sure they want to balance for group play. Key to all this, is Content. Pretty sure at the higher levels, grouping wil be required for 85% of the content.
Bears dont drop Ethereal Chain . Everyone go out, do an hour solo, measure the number of bubbles u got, same with 1 hour with group. To me, its similar
IMO each additional group member should give you a flat 20% xp bonus up to double the xp from a mob in a full group. this encourages groups of all sizes and brings the leveling speed more in line with EQ. The gap between solo and group mobs also needs serious tweaking.
Why more xp for each additional member? should be at least +200% xp for elites because they are at least twice as hard as normal mobs. More group members just means faster clear = faster xp.
When I see you on the shard and yell "go back to UA-cam" just know it's because I want more content 😂 how was I not already subscribed! I agree with everything you're saying about solo vs group. Solo xp is decent on my wizard, slower than the summoner but mach 1 compared to my warrior 😂
Without any numbers (time to kill, time to level, downtime, etc), this is meaningless imo. See if you can get log exports from others soloing along with yours to know for sure
This is an massively multiplayer online RPG. The developers should do everything that is possible to ENCOURAGE social gameplay. Groups should always give more efficient exp.
@@DionTalkFinancialFreedom they encourage group play through content. as a solo player there are whole areas/zones/dungeons/loot you will not have access to unless you group up. Solo is still good for xp and average leveling gear.
Not sure about “always”. There are a lot of really low skill folks in this game who honestly bring their parties down. Slow at reacting, suboptimal damage or wasting mana, frequent afks, etc. It is VERY noticeable when you get a group of solid gamers.
The damage and AC formulas don’t make sense either. If you do more damage to a rat, it will mitigate more. You would think after 10 years of development or even brain storming the formulas would of been ironed out. I’m really suspicious that the game was honestly only started for real a few years ago: DL getting a parry enhancing ability at level 1 but can’t parry until 10. Trading as an example; not knowing if they’re doing an AH or bazaar or keeping it how it is, wouldn’t this decision of been made years ago? There are a lot of things that I’m really suspicious that things were never truly decided and everything lived in Brad’s head. Really like the game so far though and I do have hope but i do feel some sort of way about these things
I just don't get the time to be able to commit to a group, so, as in EQ, I solo. I also don't like the experience of some idiot getting the group wiped and having to corpse run because they don't know how to play their class in a group. This is why many servers on WOW have hardly any tanks because the tanks get blamed due to DPS classes just blasting away.
"Everquest" just made soloing non viable for most classes and forced grouping. I feel like this is something so difficult to balance you have to either make grouping attractive for some other risk/reward system or make soloing impossibly slow. But I really don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. And as long as group drops are tradeable, you can't even solve it with loot.
well said, especially the part about you want 1 tank 1 heal 1 supp and then 3 dps, but dps just says... wait a sec.... solo is just better for me cya = ) But one thing i would disagree is that, you said : sometimes group of 6, for those good solo classes xp is gonna be better with good group... i just dont see it the xp is just way better solo
Solo XP should be better. It has more risk, therefore more reward. Grouping XP is less than solo xp. However, it's safer, more consistent, more fun, and has more gear potential. This is MMO 101. This is normal. Why it is a discussion is beyond me.
I have played the game maybe 250-300hrs since EA and its really hard to enjoy as solo. Its just over and over killing the same mob. I would write a macro bot to handle it if i wanted to take that time. Its boring at times. No exploration, no excitement. Its a good game but it is still lacking.
In Eq I mained a warrior and a druid at different times. As a warrior I could not solo pretty any after level 3. I had to group all the time. I am not for this game turning into a solo game. there are plenty of online games out there that cater to this. I think solo is fine but it should be slow. Making this more solo friendly just makes it more difficult to get people to group. obviously, as you said, there should be better exp and rewards for grouping. not sure why it is not like that in this game. that is what this game is meant to be. this is still EA so I am sure things will be balanced better.
The issue comes down to people like me I rarely have the 3-4 hours to sit down and invest in getting a grp together getting to the spot and farming for atleast an hour. Before all the solo changes the game basically turned into what am I killing today bears or cats. I do grp content when I happen upon it but very rarely am I putting gross together for HC or spiders or chief/terra farm because I dont have the time to be able to make it worthwhile
@@venumus1I get it. It was the same in EQ. I had to join a guild, which after 25 years I am in the same guild. and we had to schedule times each day to make sure we had enough people to form groups and play together. I guess it all depends on if they want this game to be more hard core or casual. I also work every day and have a limited time to play. I am ok with solo, but it needs to be balance so you can level faster in groups and also get better gear in groups. sounds like that is not the case right now.
However this video makes grouping sound completely pointless which is wrong, best loot in the game comes from deep within dungeons which require groups to deal with pulling and CC, also chain soloing chevrons is way way more gold than soloing, soloing is only good for xp for some classes and that is temporary since everyone will be 40 eventually
Exp and lvln is way to slow if you have a life outside of just gaming and streaming. I'm lucky to get 15-20 hours a week on gaming. Full time job and a family. Although I'd love to spend ALL of the little free time I've got on this game, I just can't! Casual player will never get max lvl at the current rate of exp you recieve
that requires a large playerbase, which this game will never have. EQ 2 provides bonded mercenarires so you as a solo player, can tackle group content.
There isn't "Zero positives" The positives is awesome gear and loot that they wouldn't get if they were just soloing mobs. They are gonna get phat lewts without a group
In this type of game the remedy would be to slow down the solo xp and don't mess with the group xp. I would not speed anything up, the game isn't meant to be easy.
Noobs in groups and noobs in avp at night will be killed at similiar rates, i bet . To me there is a risk of dying when soloing because im not a perfect player, and many classes cannot handle adds of any sort when solo. Also Waylay 😮
I’m gonna say this knowing I come from a place of privilege. I have a static group and the exp is comparable. I ain’t measuring the exp bar in millimeters. You’re lucky to get 2% a kill in a group or solo after 20. The safety of solo is nice but playing with good players/people Beats Solo by a mile. Racing to end game to sit and wait for content sounds bad.
i died by far on my twinked as hell monk more then any other classes i played " shaman " Paladin " cleric " Direlord by far i got so frustrated with my monk,s only " heal " being long CD i simply gave up on him for now at level 11. Could be i am either playing the class wrong , or need other gear then i got, but right now its a race against time to kill something before it kills me, and my shaman and paladin do yellow con mobs no prob my monk sure as hell dont
Yeah same except rogue and they don't get a heal. Direlord meanwhile can match him in non situational DPS and has lifetap bloodtouch more health and AC and another proc that heals. Its unbalanced as hell which I expected but some classes are really shafted right now.
I think this is how it should be. It might need some balancing. Warrior should have low dps but take low damage. Necros and pet class will always solo better from just the way the class is. Most classes should need to group for exp. Buff the group exp a bit to make it almost no reason to want to solo.
@@scottadavis8086 I was going to give a well thought out reply, but It would be wasted. You are just too dumb to understand. Try going back to elementary and learning reading comprehension.
You have left out the biggest BENEFIT of group, the content and the community. Us old school gamers from the days of UO, EQ and DAoC, it wasnt all about who could get to 50+ the fastest or the best drop, it was about the people you were with. Problem now is you got everyone in a mad rush to finish something that isnt finishable (That even word?!). Those people are the people whining about the XP ""issue"". The people that will disagree are the pre-50 year old's, that are used to their Xbox run and gun games and try to complete it as fast as they can then buy another and move to that. Those same people will then whine about no content post 40 while they have skipped the whole experience of exploring those lower level areas with a sense of danger, instead of just being able to go in and clear the whole thing by themselves.
there is No benefit in grouping tbh.... other than risking dying to ding dong group members, I am all for community but NEWS FLASH!!!! you and your 12 buddies does not a community create..... your POV is bias i suspect...
Make "group" mobs have a buff that makes them 50% resistant to solo player damage and buff loot for bosses to 2 drops. Buff group xp. Add more solo mobs that focus on crafting materials. That way they can separate playstyles without hurting group or solo play.
Rates of XP between groups vs solo lower than level 20 is quite irrelevant. There's no reason to discuss XP rates at that low of a level. Above 20, there's virtually no solo content available. Which voids that discussion. Let the game progress to a point where a valid argument can be presented.
There is a LOT of solo content at 20+. I know because I've leveled almost exclusively solo/duo killing solo mobs and I'm level 28. Most group content I do is for gear.
enough content to log in solo and make far more progression in bits and bites than the high risk group content for sure.... Just because they stopped the dup gold doesn't mean those that did dont still have it... literally got 5gp per rabbit foot yesterday from (i suspect a due'pr, ) get gold get gear , bla bla bla its EA, biggest problem is crafting level is tied to adventurer level imo, this will alleviate the pressure to "group" for that elite +20% gear
This was posted in VIP last night. Experience situation recap -Soloing Yellow NPC's was always the fastest experience per hour if your class was good at soloing even before we made any changes to exp rates -We gave solo NPC's an experience modifier (Band-Aid fix until we could get programming involved). On prod blue NPC's are giving up to +80% experience compared to before any adjustments. This also makes solo/duo yellow solo NPC's insanely fast. -Group exp is now slower in some cases because of all these changes compounding. Group exp is also significantly riskier with a much higher death rate (exp loss involved). Upcoming changes -Solo and group experience was really rough bc blue NPC exp reward dropped off a cliff (-60%, now down to -10%) so anyone who couldn't kill yellows (group or solo) was crawling through exp (already in game) -Experience will continue to improve for solo + group as we change our con system to the % based formula -Classes are getting needed improvements to their solo/duo/trio viability -Player level/con bonuses will further help struggling players -We will be removing the band-aid modifier on solo NPC exp because of all of these proper fixes To me it sounds like they flipped 180 and now don't want the game to be very group focused.
Sounds to me like they are just trying to get a decent balance between the two because if they make grouping the only viable option to level anywhere close to efficiently then the game will die
The time to kill and recover varies widely, most players don't test every class. They also don't even test group vs solo exp per hour . They hear a rumor and repeat it
@@sebaso158spoke like someone w/o a job. This game will absolutely not survive if you need atleast 2-4 hours invested in finding a grp and doing grp content everytime u log on because it will become a point of well I only have an hour might as well not even log on
Maybe they should have exp bonuses while in a group based on class. Take the rogue for example. They can't solo very well, so they should get a really good bonus while soloing. While a summoner needs no one, he should get a bigger bonus while grouping.
More the pet classes should lose a huge chunk of XP if their pet does more damage than they do, same with the groups they are in. If you have 3 Summoners and the pets do 51% of the damage, XP penalty.
Need to just adjust the amount of xp for elites to be a lot higher and nerf some of the dps classes that can chain pull yellow con mobs. DPS should be damage dealers and depend on a meat shield to survive.
Wish that the loss of xp didn't drop you a level when you die. / dont mind loosing xp but constantly being kicked down a level is just a mechanic to piss off players.
Honestly, if all you want to do is solo why are you playing this mmo? Go play RPGs. Serioulsy i mean this without malice. This mmo is group focused to complete objectives while classes compliment each other. Learn what your class role is, contribute to a goal of a dungeon crawl, an xp grind, questing or open exploration. Its like playing basketball by yourself and dunking all day but youve missed the point of playing basketball. Look getting groups can be a challenge, i get that but at some point youre going to group, not know wtf youre doing and give everyone a nice long corpse run or worse. Then youll get a bad reputation and reputation is big in a game like this. While your killing boars mindlessly for hours because the xp is a bit better youll be the first ones crying about how boring the game is because you completely missed the core of the game. If you dont know what the core of the game is its because youre to focused on soloing and havent actually played the game yet. But what do i know.
The only MMO that some what forced group for XP was EQ. The games before EQ (UO, The Realm, M59, and various MUDs) and almost every game after did not force groups for leveling. Even in EQ a lot of the roster of classes could solo as well. Solo in MMOs is the norm. So maybe take your own advice and play a different genre of game?
Short answer why solo needs to be viable. People don't have the ability to commit 2-4 hours to finding a group and doing group content every time they log on. Long answer: A group-oriented game with no way to skill check group mates before getting deep in a dungeon leads to tanks not wanting to play with randoms because they are the first to learn the quality of the group. Then groups will become static and there will be little to no player growth and the game will stagnate and die.
it is one month into at least 2 years of early access (will be likely much longer than that), xp issues will be settled in time, there is so much more important stuff to build and fix right now
@kearseymorton2078 I disagree. Xp is a fundamental part of the game and needs to be addressed to keep players playing. Also, you're correct there are other issues that need to be fixed but we can't ignore everything else. Some things can be ignore while others need to at least be discussed.
@kearseymorton False. Exp gains are one of the most important things in game, its what most players focus on in character progression. If its messed up, as it is now, it only causes frustration. And frustration cause players to not want to play. This is why many players left Embers Adrift because of the painfully slow leveling.
@@Lourthain001 The penalty is only relevant in the lower levels. Once you reach cap no one cares about xp loss because everyone has access to guild mates, friends or the cash to pay for a high end Rez.
@@Lourthain001sure don't die...tell that to a group of of new players entering a cave for the first time, you are thinking from a veteran point of view not a new player.
Though you are spot on with most of your points, there is positives to grouping as the required classes...namely loot. There is no solo camp that can come anywhere near to matching the gold you get from HC ghosts for example. Having said that, as an overgeared dire lord I have only been in one group which was more exp than soloing. (Which I do often in the AM hours when groups are harder to find) I think something as simple as a +20% exp for grouping, and a -20% exp for soloing would bring this in line with the majority preference.
Exp shouldnt be divided and all math gamed. It makes it more about exp than anything else. Group content can just give 20 times the exp. Group mate accounts should be tracked and you get rewarded when grouping with new accounts / have a habit of grouping up with new people. No hard numbers to get gamified just simply if you go out in your group with real people you get better EXP
Pretty much the only reason I want to group is for gear. For exp, there’s no reason to for my class. And that’s fine for my class, but other classes don’t really have that option. My main is a summoner, mainly because I have a busy life and needed a solo class and corpse summon really helps with that
First off great video. In my opinion xp should be the opposite of what it is now, 3 people or less should get an XP reduction, greater than should get a boost. Brad's vision for this game was to bring people together instead of the solo slop the MMORPG genre has evolved to, largely impart to corp greed cash shops, society's shift to 30 sec attention spans, and the rejection of a nuclear family unit. Sure there's the argument that casuals won't play, but if the rules are more is better, and less than 3 is pointless, then grps will start operating as such. I personally have been in grps where almost every other party member was swapped for someone else due to time constraints 5 times in 3 hours, and that continued when I had to log and found a sub. So the argument that casuals will suffer is moot, the only obvious scenario which technically they can't do (and don't have time for) is deep dungeon dives, where it takes a couple hours to get through. But , again that can be solved by summoning (forgot the correct term) others to the group.
Almost like your average person doesn't have 4 hours to sit down and focus on playing a video game and only a video game every time they get on. This sounds like the ramblings of someone that doesn't have a job
Here's an example: I went 1-19 on my DireLord in less than 2 days. Went to 1-17 on Monk is 3. 1-22 on Necro in 4 days. My 18 Shaman took 3 weeks with grouping. I also waited 12 hours a couple times for a group. Solo Exp feels good where it is at. Solo is far better exp for most Classes. (Sorry Rogue/Warrior) Group Exp needs a Buff. A decent one. Not because EXP is bad, but time setting up and risk vs reward. The reward isn't there. Loot is nice and all... Party mobs are to punishing and require communication that most PUGs won't do/have or require voice. Get a group together 10 min to 1hr. Get to place of Exp with no mess ups/deaths 20m-1hr Exp for an hour for okay exp Party wipes/members death 15 minutes or more to get back into action Member has to leave, has a replacement but you have to go help them get to camp. TDLR; Solo is get and go exp. Group is a lot of f'cking trouble for what you get. But you are very correct in that obviously high DPS classes can get much faster exp than a group. But I found even slower classes still get more exp solo than they would have if they went through the mess up there. Source: Me A Founder. PS: I also wrote this as you were talking and you hit on everything I just basically said. I also write this as someone who played FFXI NA release til well, now. Which by far "was" the most group oriented game, ever.
Almost every single group experience I’ve had in this game resulted in multiple wipes and a net xp loss. I’m an 18 monk and have played mostly solo with this character but I’ve tried grouping with other characters multiple times. The pitiful amount of xp you get per kill combined with the longer TTK is disappointing. Maybe it’s because I recently levelled an enchanter to 50 on the Quarm eq server and I keep comparing it to that. That game got grouping right in my opinion and I wish VR had just copied that instead of this weird mix between classic wow and eq. Buff the group xp and lower the coin drops at higher levels. Inflation is through the roof now that more players are farming HC 20+
@ I was in groups in goblin caves as well as HC. I think only manor had some successful groups. I’ve mainly soloed on the monk because I’ve been put off by grouping.
@phocus123 TY that's fair . I mostly avoided hc and goblin caves this run because they were so dangerous before EA . Manor and Fort seem to be excellent still, will try the new orc camps
yeah outside of tanks, getting levels is more important than getting gear. You can always just get better gear later and still get it before anyone else. Group xp just shouldnt be divided at all at any count.
I know rouge is in a bad spot, but I’m sure that with added content and gear, that late game they will be extremely important for high level groups. And I like that. But I have zero desire to roll a rouge as is.
I just hit level 11 doing a combination of solo/group and yes - once you find a good place with appropriate mobs, solo grinding is far faster than group xp. it makes no sense.
Try it at level 12-20
Did you measure the exp per hour or just the mob ?
@@bobthor9647 it depends a lot on your class and willing to explore and find good spots to level. I think from 12-17 I killed a lot of bears in AVP and stuff in the north part of wilds end. Then from 17-21 as wizard I was farming stuff in eastern plains
Solo xp is very fast till about 12 then slows down for a variety of reasons, most of them class related like poor skill scaling. Solo to 20+ and let us know how fast it was when you are competing for the same 10 long respawn mobs with 3-4 other players. The problem is the calc for group XP.
@@Ykesha at 21 on a lower pop server I've had pretty little mob competition since level 18 or so it seems like, but that's not to doubt what you're saying. I think it'd only take like 2-3 other folks soloing in the same area to start slowing things down roaming for respawns
Not sure the end point makes any sense. Benefit of grouping is that it's more fun and much greater rewards in terms of gear.
Did you miss the title? He's talking about XP. Do you really think gearing should be the only functional reason to group?
@@kidocman Yes
@@Namn-2028nope. Grouping should be better loot and better XP.
I thought I was imagining things - being in a group and having such incredibly slow XP gain! Glad to see this video.
Yeah it's a dumb old system where they divided XP rather than just giving people regularly XP and making a group purely beneficial
Also take into account the players that do not play an mmo to solo. Some people just enjoy grouping
This game is PERFECT for the unemployed!
time to quit your job
@@isaacsean2125 No, no! I still have EQ1 PTSD.
Amazing comment 😂
As are most games 😂
It's also perfect for people who are ok without modern gameplay. Because this shit is ancient af.😂
First class i rolled was a Monk. Had some issues at first but I've got all of my level soloing. They need to make grouping a big draw. More xp, and better drops just for being in a group might help.
Group that monk and learn to pull. Because if you wait till 25 to start grouping you'll be kicked outta groups for getting then wiped for not pulling
Soloed my Summoner to 11 before my first group (on my Shaman). The benefit for a group doesn't just have to be xp per hour. Group mobs have better drops, I can work on quests I cannot solo, and the social aspect is a nice change of pace after hours alone.
Wow i noticed this too, i was telling my bud i feel like i can kill blue mobs and gain the same xp as in groups. He didn't agree, but he was a warrior. Also, i dont like grouping mainly because loot is so scarce. So not only is it a slow grind, but i dont make any money for my trouble. Wish the gear made a noticeable difference in damage or defense like a level does. You have to equip at least 4 new upgrades to notice a change. Im still low level, but gear should make things easier, but it doesn't feel that way.
Leveling 1-10 is very different from 10-20
I started Warrior and had so much trouble soloing, even blue mobs will kill me, whereas with a necro I've been able to solo GROUP MOBS BY MYSELF! or solo enemies that are orange with ease.
They just need to rebuff the group XP like prior to the goblin nerfs in the beginning of the December.
I have a 20 monk that I mostly soloed from 12 to 18 and didn't want to do HC groups, but now after they implemented AVP orcs, I am loving grouping again
Halnirs Cave has an XP modifier that trumps open world solo and group XP not to mention high coin, comparatively. Even a death or two is better XP in HC. The issue has become more players listen to anecdotes like in this video and no longer group. Don't be misled.
7k/m xp in HC ghosts 20+. Fort is 3.5k/m. Solo is 3k/m or less.
The solo aspect is what had my attention. Not interested in trying to find/group up with a bunch of old grognards who are allergic to showers and are chronically unemployed.
Pretty sure who they are in real life doesnt really matter. Most oldschool players on a average are better off financially . Seriously do you sit there and wonder if the dude your playing with took a shower or has a job ? if so, stay solo
@@Namn-2028
They might be autismic.
wtb fungi tunic for warrior/rogue 👀
Thanks for leaving us on a cliff hanger. Now I HAVE to watch the next video. See you in game my man!
In my experience it takes +50 to +100% XP bonus for dungeon groups for most people to risk it or they will just solo to higher level and farm the gear later.
VR is aware and are increasing XP for both groups and dungeon mobs, but they are raising it too little and too slowly.
The problem is they have raised the solo XP so much that if they did raise the group dungeon XP by ~+75% it would be way too fast.
That means solo XP has to be reduced and then group dungeon XP bonus increased, but then everyone will whine about solo XP being too slow.
They want to please both (soloers and groupers) and want to control their rates of leveling with as little work as necessary (if there were enough horizontal progression and end game content then group dungeon XP bonus making people level too fast wouldn't be an issue) so instead they want to lure people into dungeon groups without the XP bonus, for gear etc, but it's not working.
Hopefully they realize all this during early access and dial in the XP enough to incentivize grouping at the appropriate levels instead of solo farming. Maybe making Mastery Points slow again will fix the issue of dungeon groups making you level too fast and they can make the desired changes. They have 2-3 years to work on it, I'm not getting worried yet.
Thanks for the great video explaining the issue though.
Group exp is only good if the players in the group are good, group exp needs to account for atleast a couple bad players
group exp should just be equal exp for everyone, plus 10%. So 2 players each mob should be 55% of the normal exp. 3: 36% 4: 27,5% 5: 22% and 6 people 18,33%. And then of course they must balance all the classes better.
Id really like to be able to see xp numbers so we can actually see what we are getting and see the results instead of everything being "feels"
@@venumus1 there are parsers put there that give the numbers.
@KriddleKraddle yeah but addon's are still a grey area and not worth not paying attention when they do a hard stance and get banned granted I do understand stand the absolute need for addon's to not be free for all open because a tom tom or rare spawn scanner or body tracker would absolutely destroy the game. I think when we get closer to launch or maybe sooner then later he should utilize steam workshop for approved addon's
@venumus1 I'm not advocating for parsers but they do exist and one has been okayed by the devs directly as it was created by a mod on discord.
EXP farming should be solo oriented. Dungeons and gear farming group oriented.
I dont want to group instantly every single time i login.
This is not a solo oriented game. If you wanna solo, go play wow. This is for groups and as such, group play should be more rewarded then solo play
Absolutely not. If you want a solo MMORPG you got 100 to choose from. Let games be unique and niche please.
@@scottadavis8086 Says who? You can solo and Joppa has said its by design. I think you are in the wrong game bud.
@@scottadavis8086 except here's the thing we don't want to play a theme park mmo; most of us that primarily solo do so because we dont have 2-4 hours to invest in playing every time we sit down to play. 2 things can be true at he same time; we want a old-school style hard mmo with consequences, while not always having the time to invest into gro content.
@ I get that. I also don’t play 3-10 hours a day. That being said, this is a GROUP mmo. It’s very easy to find groups. Period the end
In the TikTok and "Shorts" era, this game expects us to slow down and socialize without modernity. GL with that. Ppl have less time overall.✌️
I've only done soloing so far(over 100 hours of play and achieved level 9) and not grouped at all and leveling seems pretty slow and am having to stick to green con mobs. If I try to tackle a blue con mob, I die and de-level and have to re-arrange my hotbars due to not being able to use previous skills/spells anymore. I'm using noob gear though, so who knows if things would be better if I had decent gear to equip. Playing as Necromancer.
thats on you, necro's can solo group mobs from what ive been told
@@KoriProGamer Maybe they have better than average gear for themselves and their pets?
100 hours and only level 9??? Could get to 9 in 2 hours...
@@thomasatreides7134 Lots of exploring, harvesting and climbing around to see how many hidden treasure chests I could find. Was not fighting the whole time. Plus had to account for deaths due to de-leveling.
de-level lol. Seriously? Can you lose levels in this game?
Best XP is in a small group with 2-3 people, but it's still a group. You don't need a full group for it to be a group. Go find non-chev mobs with high density and kill as fast as possible. Can get a level in 4 hours in early 20s. No one is doing that solo. Full group xp is a bit slower maybe, but ya.. you get loot (important materials found only in dungeons) and money, and actually dungeon crawl which is the best part of the game. So do you play a game only for efficiency or to have fun? there's absolutely no issues with xp unless you're just racing to max level which would be completely pointless since the content is limited.
EEdit: Albeit, I play with friends on discord and they don't suck so maybe thats why my opinion is what it is. Pugs can be quite brutal.
I don't feel like every class in the game has to have the same capacity to solo. Playing a warrior or a cleric you might be sacrificing some of your ability to solo efficiently. This is supposed to be an immersive fantasy world after all. I'm not saying there's no improvement to be made, obviously the game is in an early state. The benefit of being in a group doesn't come down to only efficiency and xp. Being in a group means that instead of doing everything yourself, you are playing your part and it's a different gameplay experience. Though I'm probably stating the obvious. An MMO like this shines despite it's flaws, just as EQ shined despite what many would consider it's flaws. That being said I'm interested in seeing the further development of the game, it's a great game that satisfies the niche.
Warrior can't solo any higher than blue mobs, wizards can easily blow up yellow mobs, and necros are killing reds.
As a ranger who can efficiently solo with almost zero downtime pov, for me it's the issue of having to choose between many hours of grinding non-stop vs a group that might disband in 2 hours. manor and orc camp are great group stuff but once you've put ur hours in there and out leveled it, you don't have a easy to find group spot after that where people congregate cause not enough people of the level around and not many options that don't take a ton of effort. I personally would prefer to group if I could easily find them because the thing people don't realize about solo'ing is that you're not solo'ing humanoids generally. It's all wildlife that drop basically nothing aka no money for spells.
Early on solo xp should be decent, further in the game it shouild slow down and make grouping more viable. Other attraction to grouping, is drops. They need just need to balance risk vs reward. In regards to Class effiency and who can solo, keep in mind, classes are balance towards group PVE, not solo. Sure they can touch up some abilities, but main balance should be group play. They can even go as far as adding one ability that is substantial, but you cant use it in a group. We do not want to balance for solo, were basically leaning towards WoW if we do that. There will always be classes that solo better than another, again VR can seek to narrow that divide slightly, but pretty sure they want to balance for group play. Key to all this, is Content. Pretty sure at the higher levels, grouping wil be required for 85% of the content.
Bears dont drop Ethereal Chain . Everyone go out, do an hour solo, measure the number of bubbles u got, same with 1 hour with group. To me, its similar
IMO each additional group member should give you a flat 20% xp bonus up to double the xp from a mob in a full group. this encourages groups of all sizes and brings the leveling speed more in line with EQ. The gap between solo and group mobs also needs serious tweaking.
Why more xp for each additional member? should be at least +200% xp for elites because they are at least twice as hard as normal mobs. More group members just means faster clear = faster xp.
I was thinking something like an extra 10 percent xp per member. So 2 ppl would get 10 percent more xp while 6 ppl would get 50 percent more xp.
When I see you on the shard and yell "go back to UA-cam" just know it's because I want more content 😂 how was I not already subscribed!
I agree with everything you're saying about solo vs group. Solo xp is decent on my wizard, slower than the summoner but mach 1 compared to my warrior 😂
Excellent video
I quit till things get moving along a little more. I really feel like this game should be further along considering development time.
Without any numbers (time to kill, time to level, downtime, etc), this is meaningless imo. See if you can get log exports from others soloing along with yours to know for sure
What about 6 rangers together?
@@ZebofZebYT well for group content that would fall apart fast.
This is an massively multiplayer online RPG. The developers should do everything that is possible to ENCOURAGE social gameplay. Groups should always give more efficient exp.
That makes people quit the games.
Ask almost every former wow player.
“Required group play” killed the game aspect and made it a job.
@@DionTalkFinancialFreedom they encourage group play through content. as a solo player there are whole areas/zones/dungeons/loot you will not have access to unless you group up. Solo is still good for xp and average leveling gear.
Not sure about “always”. There are a lot of really low skill folks in this game who honestly bring their parties down. Slow at reacting, suboptimal damage or wasting mana, frequent afks, etc. It is VERY noticeable when you get a group of solid gamers.
The damage and AC formulas don’t make sense either. If you do more damage to a rat, it will mitigate more. You would think after 10 years of development or even brain storming the formulas would of been ironed out. I’m really suspicious that the game was honestly only started for real a few years ago: DL getting a parry enhancing ability at level 1 but can’t parry until 10. Trading as an example; not knowing if they’re doing an AH or bazaar or keeping it how it is, wouldn’t this decision of been made years ago? There are a lot of things that I’m really suspicious that things were never truly decided and everything lived in Brad’s head.
Really like the game so far though and I do have hope but i do feel some sort of way about these things
I just don't get the time to be able to commit to a group, so, as in EQ, I solo. I also don't like the experience of some idiot getting the group wiped and having to corpse run because they don't know how to play their class in a group. This is why many servers on WOW have hardly any tanks because the tanks get blamed due to DPS classes just blasting away.
Well said.
"Everquest" just made soloing non viable for most classes and forced grouping. I feel like this is something so difficult to balance you have to either make grouping attractive for some other risk/reward system or make soloing impossibly slow. But I really don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. And as long as group drops are tradeable, you can't even solve it with loot.
And that’s why we stopped playing.
Solo should always be decent xp. Group just needs to he increased.
well said, especially the part about you want 1 tank 1 heal 1 supp and then 3 dps, but dps just says... wait a sec.... solo is just better for me cya = ) But one thing i would disagree is that, you said : sometimes group of 6, for those good solo classes xp is gonna be better with good group... i just dont see it the xp is just way better solo
Solo XP should be better. It has more risk, therefore more reward. Grouping XP is less than solo xp. However, it's safer, more consistent, more fun, and has more gear potential. This is MMO 101. This is normal. Why it is a discussion is beyond me.
times have changed.
I have played the game maybe 250-300hrs since EA and its really hard to enjoy as solo. Its just over and over killing the same mob. I would write a macro bot to handle it if i wanted to take that time. Its boring at times. No exploration, no excitement.
Its a good game but it is still lacking.
I don’t know it’s easier for me to level in a group and better drops.
I mean as a direlord im pretty good except vs mobs that heal and have multple dots
In Eq I mained a warrior and a druid at different times. As a warrior I could not solo pretty any after level 3. I had to group all the time. I am not for this game turning into a solo game. there are plenty of online games out there that cater to this. I think solo is fine but it should be slow. Making this more solo friendly just makes it more difficult to get people to group. obviously, as you said, there should be better exp and rewards for grouping. not sure why it is not like that in this game. that is what this game is meant to be. this is still EA so I am sure things will be balanced better.
The issue comes down to people like me I rarely have the 3-4 hours to sit down and invest in getting a grp together getting to the spot and farming for atleast an hour. Before all the solo changes the game basically turned into what am I killing today bears or cats. I do grp content when I happen upon it but very rarely am I putting gross together for HC or spiders or chief/terra farm because I dont have the time to be able to make it worthwhile
@@venumus1I get it. It was the same in EQ. I had to join a guild, which after 25 years I am in the same guild. and we had to schedule times each day to make sure we had enough people to form groups and play together. I guess it all depends on if they want this game to be more hard core or casual. I also work every day and have a limited time to play. I am ok with solo, but it needs to be balance so you can level faster in groups and also get better gear in groups. sounds like that is not the case right now.
However this video makes grouping sound completely pointless which is wrong, best loot in the game comes from deep within dungeons which require groups to deal with pulling and CC, also chain soloing chevrons is way way more gold than soloing, soloing is only good for xp for some classes and that is temporary since everyone will be 40 eventually
Exp and lvln is way to slow if you have a life outside of just gaming and streaming. I'm lucky to get 15-20 hours a week on gaming. Full time job and a family. Although I'd love to spend ALL of the little free time I've got on this game, I just can't! Casual player will never get max lvl at the current rate of exp you recieve
There are too many solo friendly games. If we have one that clearly better as a group - it's just good idea.
that requires a large playerbase, which this game will never have. EQ 2 provides bonded mercenarires so you as a solo player, can tackle group content.
As a direlord at lvl12 i can solo two yellow at same time and not have down time
There isn't "Zero positives" The positives is awesome gear and loot that they wouldn't get if they were just soloing mobs. They are gonna get phat lewts without a group
In this type of game the remedy would be to slow down the solo xp and don't mess with the group xp. I would not speed anything up, the game isn't meant to be easy.
Noobs in groups and noobs in avp at night will be killed at similiar rates, i bet . To me there is a risk of dying when soloing because im not a perfect player, and many classes cannot handle adds of any sort when solo. Also Waylay 😮
I’m gonna say this knowing I come from a place of privilege. I have a static group and the exp is comparable. I ain’t measuring the exp bar in millimeters. You’re lucky to get 2% a kill in a group or solo after 20. The safety of solo is nice but playing with good players/people Beats Solo by a mile. Racing to end game to sit and wait for content sounds bad.
i died by far on my twinked as hell monk more then any other classes i played " shaman " Paladin " cleric " Direlord by far i got so frustrated with my monk,s only " heal " being long CD i simply gave up on him for now at level 11. Could be i am either playing the class wrong , or need other gear then i got, but right now its a race against time to kill something before it kills me, and my shaman and paladin do yellow con mobs no prob my monk sure as hell dont
Yeah same except rogue and they don't get a heal. Direlord meanwhile can match him in non situational DPS and has lifetap bloodtouch more health and AC and another proc that heals. Its unbalanced as hell which I expected but some classes are really shafted right now.
monk starts to pop off after lv 12
@@anton6686 you talking about the DL compared to what a Paladin ?
@@bruticusmaximus2737 a rogue
oh i needed another " after Direlord as in i played that also, nothing about Direlord being anything, my monk still dies but its better now at 12.
solo exp should be garbage. If you're employed you should be playing skyrim in your 2 hours of time on weeknights.
I think this is how it should be. It might need some balancing. Warrior should have low dps but take low damage. Necros and pet class will always solo better from just the way the class is. Most classes should need to group for exp. Buff the group exp a bit to make it almost no reason to want to solo.
Ive got friends giving up due to group XP being bad and classes they like not being solo friendly.
cause group is high risk for sure
Then this game is not for them. This is a group game. If you don’t like grouping, go play wow
@@scottadavis8086 I was going to give a well thought out reply, but It would be wasted. You are just too dumb to understand. Try going back to elementary and learning reading comprehension.
@@scottadavis8086 did you even read what he wrote? where did he write anything about them not liking grouping?
You have left out the biggest BENEFIT of group, the content and the community. Us old school gamers from the days of UO, EQ and DAoC, it wasnt all about who could get to 50+ the fastest or the best drop, it was about the people you were with. Problem now is you got everyone in a mad rush to finish something that isnt finishable (That even word?!). Those people are the people whining about the XP ""issue"".
The people that will disagree are the pre-50 year old's, that are used to their Xbox run and gun games and try to complete it as fast as they can then buy another and move to that. Those same people will then whine about no content post 40 while they have skipped the whole experience of exploring those lower level areas with a sense of danger, instead of just being able to go in and clear the whole thing by themselves.
there is No benefit in grouping tbh.... other than risking dying to ding dong group members, I am all for community but NEWS FLASH!!!! you and your 12 buddies does not a community create..... your POV is bias i suspect...
i would say pre 30 year olds. Jesus I still played EQ kunark launch when I was 10
Make "group" mobs have a buff that makes them 50% resistant to solo player damage and buff loot for bosses to 2 drops. Buff group xp. Add more solo mobs that focus on crafting materials. That way they can separate playstyles without hurting group or solo play.
@steveblack2429 So basically ruin soloing, F that.
Rates of XP between groups vs solo lower than level 20 is quite irrelevant. There's no reason to discuss XP rates at that low of a level. Above 20, there's virtually no solo content available. Which voids that discussion. Let the game progress to a point where a valid argument can be presented.
There is a LOT of solo content at 20+. I know because I've leveled almost exclusively solo/duo killing solo mobs and I'm level 28. Most group content I do is for gear.
Duo exp is actually bis for 30+
enough content to log in solo and make far more progression in bits and bites than the high risk group content for sure....
Just because they stopped the dup gold doesn't mean those that did dont still have it... literally got 5gp per rabbit foot yesterday from (i suspect a due'pr, ) get gold get gear , bla bla bla its EA, biggest problem is crafting level is tied to adventurer level imo, this will alleviate the pressure to "group" for that elite +20% gear
@@KriddleKraddleI just hit 20 as a warrior leveling at the new orcs in AVP but where to level now as a 20 warrior duo?
ya.. solo dark blue-yellow far better xp than group zerging yellow... END of story!!
random thought.. maybe certain classes should be flagged as "Group" classes?
As a Direlord, i can solo (at lv 15) xp at 2-3 times the rate of group xp ( solo yellow vs grouping yellow)
Ya itemization is a thing, IMO its the linked crafting class to adventurer class, separate them and itemization will be better imo (EQ2) FOR example
As a "geared" direlord i can solo a GREEN heroic and pull another after 30s-1minute, that said i can chain pull solo yellows...
Ya, of my 16 deaths 15 have been in group... group is high risk
This was posted in VIP last night.
Experience situation recap
-Soloing Yellow NPC's was always the fastest experience per hour if your class was good at soloing even before we made any changes to exp rates
-We gave solo NPC's an experience modifier (Band-Aid fix until we could get programming involved). On prod blue NPC's are giving up to +80% experience compared to before any adjustments. This also makes solo/duo yellow solo NPC's insanely fast.
-Group exp is now slower in some cases because of all these changes compounding. Group exp is also significantly riskier with a much higher death rate (exp loss involved).
Upcoming changes
-Solo and group experience was really rough bc blue NPC exp reward dropped off a cliff (-60%, now down to -10%) so anyone who couldn't kill yellows (group or solo) was crawling through exp (already in game)
-Experience will continue to improve for solo + group as we change our con system to the % based formula
-Classes are getting needed improvements to their solo/duo/trio viability
-Player level/con bonuses will further help struggling players
-We will be removing the band-aid modifier on solo NPC exp because of all of these proper fixes
To me it sounds like they flipped 180 and now don't want the game to be very group focused.
Sounds to me like they are just trying to get a decent balance between the two because if they make grouping the only viable option to level anywhere close to efficiently then the game will die
The time to kill and recover varies widely, most players don't test every class. They also don't even test group vs solo exp per hour . They hear a rumor and repeat it
@@sebaso158spoke like someone w/o a job. This game will absolutely not survive if you need atleast 2-4 hours invested in finding a grp and doing grp content everytime u log on because it will become a point of well I only have an hour might as well not even log on
Maybe they should have exp bonuses while in a group based on class. Take the rogue for example. They can't solo very well, so they should get a really good bonus while soloing. While a summoner needs no one, he should get a bigger bonus while grouping.
More the pet classes should lose a huge chunk of XP if their pet does more damage than they do, same with the groups they are in. If you have 3 Summoners and the pets do 51% of the damage, XP penalty.
Need to just adjust the amount of xp for elites to be a lot higher and nerf some of the dps classes that can chain pull yellow con mobs. DPS should be damage dealers and depend on a meat shield to survive.
Wish that the loss of xp didn't drop you a level when you die. / dont mind loosing xp but constantly being kicked down a level is just a mechanic to piss off players.
imo ignore ding and grab that extra 12%... i do.
Being pissed off in the right ways are part of why I enjoy challenging games
Honestly, if all you want to do is solo why are you playing this mmo? Go play RPGs. Serioulsy i mean this without malice. This mmo is group focused to complete objectives while classes compliment each other. Learn what your class role is, contribute to a goal of a dungeon crawl, an xp grind, questing or open exploration. Its like playing basketball by yourself and dunking all day but youve missed the point of playing basketball. Look getting groups can be a challenge, i get that but at some point youre going to group, not know wtf youre doing and give everyone a nice long corpse run or worse. Then youll get a bad reputation and reputation is big in a game like this. While your killing boars mindlessly for hours because the xp is a bit better youll be the first ones crying about how boring the game is because you completely missed the core of the game. If you dont know what the core of the game is its because youre to focused on soloing and havent actually played the game yet. But what do i know.
The only MMO that some what forced group for XP was EQ. The games before EQ (UO, The Realm, M59, and various MUDs) and almost every game after did not force groups for leveling. Even in EQ a lot of the roster of classes could solo as well. Solo in MMOs is the norm. So maybe take your own advice and play a different genre of game?
Short answer why solo needs to be viable. People don't have the ability to commit 2-4 hours to finding a group and doing group content every time they log on.
Long answer: A group-oriented game with no way to skill check group mates before getting deep in a dungeon leads to tanks not wanting to play with randoms because they are the first to learn the quality of the group. Then groups will become static and there will be little to no player growth and the game will stagnate and die.
You cant pay me enough to join a group hell nah. I soloed to 34 so far fuck grouping lmao.
where do you get your gear then. Most gear drops from Elites
it is one month into at least 2 years of early access (will be likely much longer than that), xp issues will be settled in time, there is so much more important stuff to build and fix right now
@kearseymorton2078 I disagree. Xp is a fundamental part of the game and needs to be addressed to keep players playing. Also, you're correct there are other issues that need to be fixed but we can't ignore everything else. Some things can be ignore while others need to at least be discussed.
@kearseymorton False. Exp gains are one of the most important things in game, its what most players focus on in character progression. If its messed up, as it is now, it only causes frustration. And frustration cause players to not want to play. This is why many players left Embers Adrift because of the painfully slow leveling.
@@KriddleKraddle 💯🎯
@@KriddleKraddle I say they do a wipe and then everyone will be back to getting good xp 1-16 solo again and problem solved...
@@KriddleKraddle I disagree, it'll get sorted, given time this bea U tiful game will get ruined by hand holding and easy mode.... Great video btw!
The reason I quit every game is required group play.
Period.
Anti social much?
XP loss on death is pure time sink that makes the player less likely to group on top of that you lose a lvl and cant use certain abilitys.
meh, dont die... i love the dark dark and the penalty of not "winning", literally 100 other mmorpgs you can go play that are muggle mode.
TLDR lemme have this 1 game where no effort = hard mode..Pa-lease....
@@Lourthain001 The penalty is only relevant in the lower levels. Once you reach cap no one cares about xp loss because everyone has access to guild mates, friends or the cash to pay for a high end Rez.
@@Lourthain001sure don't die...tell that to a group of of new players entering a cave for the first time, you are thinking from a veteran point of view not a new player.
Though you are spot on with most of your points, there is positives to grouping as the required classes...namely loot. There is no solo camp that can come anywhere near to matching the gold you get from HC ghosts for example. Having said that, as an overgeared dire lord I have only been in one group which was more exp than soloing. (Which I do often in the AM hours when groups are harder to find) I think something as simple as a +20% exp for grouping, and a -20% exp for soloing would bring this in line with the majority preference.
Exp shouldnt be divided and all math gamed. It makes it more about exp than anything else. Group content can just give 20 times the exp.
Group mate accounts should be tracked and you get rewarded when grouping with new accounts / have a habit of grouping up with new people. No hard numbers to get gamified just simply if you go out in your group with real people you get better EXP
Groups have the advantage of access to better gear and schematic drops, through Dungeon runs and Group mobs.
@@YowserUK we are talking about xp.
Pretty much the only reason I want to group is for gear. For exp, there’s no reason to for my class. And that’s fine for my class, but other classes don’t really have that option. My main is a summoner, mainly because I have a busy life and needed a solo class and corpse summon really helps with that
Who cares when I'm 40 a month before everyone else
@@Zerker77745 who cares when everyone will be 40 eventually and then groups win
@ sick logic dude. Were still just talking about exp gains.
First off great video. In my opinion xp should be the opposite of what it is now, 3 people or less should get an XP reduction, greater than should get a boost. Brad's vision for this game was to bring people together instead of the solo slop the MMORPG genre has evolved to, largely impart to corp greed cash shops, society's shift to 30 sec attention spans, and the rejection of a nuclear family unit. Sure there's the argument that casuals won't play, but if the rules are more is better, and less than 3 is pointless, then grps will start operating as such. I personally have been in grps where almost every other party member was swapped for someone else due to time constraints 5 times in 3 hours, and that continued when I had to log and found a sub. So the argument that casuals will suffer is moot, the only obvious scenario which technically they can't do (and don't have time for) is deep dungeon dives, where it takes a couple hours to get through. But , again that can be solved by summoning (forgot the correct term) others to the group.
Almost like your average person doesn't have 4 hours to sit down and focus on playing a video game and only a video game every time they get on. This sounds like the ramblings of someone that doesn't have a job
Here's an example: I went 1-19 on my DireLord in less than 2 days. Went to 1-17 on Monk is 3. 1-22 on Necro in 4 days. My 18 Shaman took 3 weeks with grouping. I also waited 12 hours a couple times for a group.
Solo Exp feels good where it is at.
Solo is far better exp for most Classes. (Sorry Rogue/Warrior)
Group Exp needs a Buff. A decent one. Not because EXP is bad, but time setting up and risk vs reward. The reward isn't there. Loot is nice and all...
Party mobs are to punishing and require communication that most PUGs won't do/have or require voice.
Get a group together 10 min to 1hr.
Get to place of Exp with no mess ups/deaths 20m-1hr
Exp for an hour for okay exp
Party wipes/members death 15 minutes or more to get back into action
Member has to leave, has a replacement but you have to go help them get to camp.
TDLR; Solo is get and go exp. Group is a lot of f'cking trouble for what you get.
But you are very correct in that obviously high DPS classes can get much faster exp than a group. But I found even slower classes still get more exp solo than they would have if they went through the mess up there.
Source: Me A Founder.
PS: I also wrote this as you were talking and you hit on everything I just basically said. I also write this as someone who played FFXI NA release til well, now. Which by far "was" the most group oriented game, ever.
Almost every single group experience I’ve had in this game resulted in multiple wipes and a net xp loss. I’m an 18 monk and have played mostly solo with this character but I’ve tried grouping with other characters multiple times. The pitiful amount of xp you get per kill combined with the longer TTK is disappointing.
Maybe it’s because I recently levelled an enchanter to 50 on the Quarm eq server and I keep comparing it to that.
That game got grouping right in my opinion and I wish VR had just copied that instead of this weird mix between classic wow and eq.
Buff the group xp and lower the coin drops at higher levels. Inflation is through the roof now that more players are farming HC 20+
Where are you wiping a lot ? Usually at 18 I'd be grinding Fort
@ I was in groups in goblin caves as well as HC. I think only manor had some successful groups. I’ve mainly soloed on the monk because I’ve been put off by grouping.
@phocus123 TY that's fair . I mostly avoided hc and goblin caves this run because they were so dangerous before EA . Manor and Fort seem to be excellent still, will try the new orc camps
yeah outside of tanks, getting levels is more important than getting gear. You can always just get better gear later and still get it before anyone else. Group xp just shouldnt be divided at all at any count.
I know rouge is in a bad spot, but I’m sure that with added content and gear, that late game they will be extremely important for high level groups. And I like that. But I have zero desire to roll a rouge as is.
Hope Joppa is being productive on those live steams and not just being a social boi