Naked Bible Podcast 221 - Baptism for the Dead
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- 1 Corinthians 15:29 is one of the more enigmatic verses in the Bible. Scholars have long struggled with the meaning of Paul’s questions: “. . . What do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?” Just what was going on at Corinth that involved baptism for the dead? Is this literal (water) baptism or something else? Who are the dead - believers or unbelievers? Does baptism help dead unbelievers in the afterlife? If not, what’s the benefit? How does this verse fit the wider context of Paul’s discourse on the resurrection?
• Article resource: James E. Patrick, “Living Rewards for Dead
Apostles: ‘Baptised for the Dead’ in 1 Corinthians 15.29,” New Test.
Stud. 52 (2006): 71-85
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oh michael how we miss you❤
I’ve been looking for an explanation of this passage for decades; I’ve asked pastors and preachers and one by one they basically shut me down, as if I’m trying to overreach..Not sure I fully agree, but as always MH goes to great lengths in his research and explanation, and I am so grateful for that. May he rest well in the arms of our Savior.
Can you accept Christ on someone else's behalf? Why would we think we can be baptized on someone's behalf.... baptism for salvation begins works does it not?
Baptism doesn't wash away sin, the Blood of The Lamb does
No, you cannot.... being a true born again, spirit filled Christian means a person must confess with their mouth and believe in their heart that Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose again to give us grace and intercede for us with the Father... and then it's an ongoing relationship that will be formed.
"Many will say on that day, "Lord, Lord, didn't we do miracles in your name? Didn't we cast out demons in your name?" and I will say to them, "Depart from me you workers of iniquity for I never knew you" -Matthew 7:23
I believe Paul’s use of this one time phrase, “baptism for the dead” is an expression referring specifically to Christ, Himself…
Consider these verses:
“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
But if there is no resurrection of THE DEAD, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up-if in fact THE DEAD do not rise. For if THE DEAD do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.”
I Corinthians 15:12-19 NKJV>
So the right question:
“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
*Insert Paul’s further correlating question:
“Otherwise, what will they do WHO ARE BAPTIZED FOR THE DEAD, if THE DEAD do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?”
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from THE DEAD by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
I don’t agree with this view AT ALL! It fringes on Roman Catholicism and doing things in the name of other saints, apostles and such! There is no record of anyone being baptized in any name but that ONE name, Jesus Christ!
What makes a lot of sense is taking out the punctuation from the passage (since there wasn’t any in the first place), and realizing Paul was using sarcasm! The dead are those without Christ, the unsaved, just as Jesus said, “Let the dead bury the dead!”
The entire passage is talking about resurrection from being dead (without Christ). Verse 12 is being addressed because some were saying there was no such thing as a resurrection! He’s putting that nonsense down and explaining that if that were indeed the case, then Christ is STILL dead and everything hinging on it is ludicrous! In essence he’s saying, “Why the heck would we be putting our lives on the line and preach to you? Why do you even believe? It’s all for nought if there’s no such thing as resurrection...because Jesus would still be buried!”
He continues in his sarcasm by saying “Well, I guess we must be false witnesses then! Gee, if our hope is in Christ, we’re hopeless! Miserable!”
Then Paul takes up his counter argument to this line of thinking by explaining resurrection. This whole section, verses 20-28 are a parenthetical statement of him expounding what the resurrection is, and how it works, how it motivates us, because what we’re doing now isn’t futile! Death is to be destroyed!
Then Paul picks up his sarcasm again, right where he left off in verse 19!
Take out the punctuation and re-read it with Paul’s sarcasm, and it makes PERFECT SENSE!
Else what shall we do which are baptized (meaning those of us buried and raised to a new life in Christ)?
For the dead, if the dead rise not at all! (Sarcasm...meaning, it’s all for naught if there’s no such thing as resurrection)
Why then are we baptized? (Rhetorical question like all the rest that follow)
For the dead! (He actually answers his rhetorical question just to be clear they get it!)
And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? (Another rhetorical question to get them to think about what he’s telling them...which bottom line is, “Do you really think we’d be putting our lives on the line like this if we thought there was nothing beyond this life?” And then he even goes so far as to tell them what kind of perils he’s been through to make his point!)
And then he caps this off by more sarcasm! You can hear his rage on how ludicrous he thinks this idea is of no resurrection! He takes up his rant further by saying he’s even fought beasts in Ephesus! Then the final blow to their illogic, “What advantage did that give me if the dead rise not (if there’s no resurrection then why the hell would I be doing this and be willing to die?) Then he sarcastically concludes his rant by saying, “Let us eat and drink; for tomorrow we die!” (Epitome of sarcasm here...gee, let’s just roll over and die, just live for today...there’s nothing else to look forward to beyond this!)
Then Paul calms down warns them to not be deceived, and ends his rant by followup teaching and encouragement in hope.
To me, there’s no question about how we’re supposed to read 1 Corinthans 15:29! It’s as obvious as the nose on my face! The context and voice in which Paul is speaking makes it so clear. It’s just terrible that someone punctuated it wrong and now everyone is scrambling to make up a doctrine and practices to make sense of it, when honestly that’s just not necessary.
Baptize oneself to be united with dead loved ones in the resurrection? Maybe it was something they believed is acceptable, whether true or not, Paul is using this to further his point of the truth of a resurrection?
It makes a lot of sense to me. Well done Mike
Eventually, the last person will be baptized, and it will be done. Crist will return, and the dead will rise.
I almost think that if being baptized for/on behalf of the dead refers to baptism which included an honorific element of doing so in the name of someone then 1 Corinthians 1:12-13’s statement may be applicable “each one of you is saying, ‘I am of Paul,’ and ‘I of Apollos,’ and ‘I of Cephas,’ and ‘I of Christ.’ Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius” except that, apparently, Paul, Apollos, Cephas and Christ were live at the time.
What if “the dead” here is simply a reference to Jesus? Verse 12 said the issue Paul was dealing with is people saying there is no ressurection from the dead. Maybe Paul’s just saying “what will we Christians do if we’re getting baptized for a dead guy (if Jesus hadn’t raised.) It would be like being baptized into a person who is dead -maybe that’s the point.
Paul outlines the final destiny of all mankind in 1 Cor 15:22 -28, and Heiser just glosses over it to make some obscure point. Try to bury the truth, but don't be surprised when it buries you.
This is one of the best explanations of this passage that I have encountered. Simple, thoroughly investigated and researched, well-developed, but unassuming and noncommittal.
Walker Eric Davis Sharon Anderson Betty
White Betty Young Sharon Lewis Ronald
Or here me out… to keep the idea in context of the conversation about the dead rising. People were being converted in place of the believers who have died. As a physical replacement of those who have died. Like you would higher a new employee in place of another employee who left the company(might be a bad example, don’t read to much into it.) Typically if a belief or conviction was causing your death or extreme discomfort. Most people would not subscribe to it unless there was a legitimate benefit. Like eternal life the ability to be risen spiritually from the physical death. The proof of the promise of resurrection gives the ability to have hope in it. Which would allow for the ability to take the major risk. Allowing, for those coming into contact with this belief, the confidence to accept the belief.
If the resurrection is not possible then baptizing people into the faith is pointless.
“If the dead will not be raised, what point is there in people being baptized for those who are dead? Why do it unless the dead will someday rise again?”
1 Corinthians 15:29 NLT
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I've been very intrigued and undecided by this passage...
This is like the verse a few chapters back which says a woman ought to have "power on her head because of the angels". Heiser has also commented on that verse, but in the end it is all speculation. There is no way to know what kind of practices were being referred to in these kind of obscure verses.
First time hearing of this. It’s strange on the surface but kinda sweet to honor a person that has passed. I see nothing wrong with it,nor any value to either person,dead or alive
Question? If the conclusion is
“Baptism for the dead” means by Paul they were being baptized in honor of the “dead apostles,” how does this align with the great commission?
“And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations,
baptizing them
IN THE NAME of the Father
and of the Son and
of the Holy Spirit,”
Matthew 28:18-19 NKJV
I'm confused. He seems to make it clear that the better translation is "taking responsibility for..." in a sort of vicarious role. Yet he then rejects this take. I don't get it
Heiser often talks about how we can’t read our presuppositions into the text. Yet he reads his presupposition that baptism can’t be sacramentally salvific into the text...
Makes perfect sense!
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There is significance is Paul saying “I die everyday,” right after the verse in question.
““I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!”
1 Corinthians 15:31 ESV
Great observation in contextual .....but I am not getting this yet...After all of the teaching....what does it mean to you?I am trying to wrap my mind arojnd this.
Thank you for responding if you get this ...after a 1 year video blog.
Thanks Mike. Kudos!
This interpretation strikes me as very close to the early Christian practice, retained by the Orthodox, of honoring martyrs ("witnesses" willing to give up their lives in hope of the resurrection), i.e., the victorious dead, by taking their names in baptism. Since baptism inaugurates a new creation with a new identity in Christ, and the practice of renaming after an encounter with God is well established in both Testaments, Christian converts were often assigned new names, and the infant children of the faithful formally only received their names at baptism.
But this is irrelevant to the context, Paul is saying that this "baptism" is done because of the ressurrection, its useful to do that for the dead because the ressurrection will happen!! but to give a name in honor of other people doesn't matter if you believe in the ressurrection or not.
Sometimes Jesus use the language of "baptism" to point to his passion/penance on the cross. The practice is linked to that, a form of penance done to help the dead, and is striking similar to 2Maccabees 12 passage on offering sacrifices to purify the dead so they can participate on the ressurrection. Its not a mystery passage if you are in an apostolic church, but Heiser is here 2 thousand years later denying baptism regeneration, something that all the Fathers affirm.
Some of Heiser's explanations is irrelevant to the context, Paul is saying that this "baptism" is done because of the ressurrection, its useful to do that for the dead because the ressurrection will happen!! but to give a name in honor of other people doesn't matter if you believe in the ressurrection or not.
Sometimes Jesus use the language of "baptism" to point to his passion/penance on the cross. The practice is linked to that, a form of penance done to help the dead to be free of their faults, and is striking similar to 2Maccabees 12 passage on offering sacrifices to purify the dead so they can participate on the ressurrection (of course, this destroy the manmade protestant/evangelical soteriology). Its not a mystery passage if you are in an apostolic church, but Heiser is here 2 thousand years later denying baptism regeneration, something that all the Fathers affirm.
So Paul meant "Don't baptism for the dead except because of the resurrection"?!? 🙄🙄🙄
In my position as a hospice chaplain, and as a minister who believes that baptism does have a role in our salvation (the washing away of sin, the burial of "the old man" with Christ," the "newness of life"), it has been difficult to practice evangelism with my patients because nearly all of them are far too feeble to be baptized. It would be very helpful to have a proxy, either before or after their death. I'm sure this must also have been an issue in Bible times, and I was hoping there would be some discussion of this. Thank you
Nowhere in the gospel does it say baptism is needed for salvation.... confess with your mouth, believe in your heart that Jesus died for your sins, rose again and intercede for us with the Father.
By grace through faith.
Not by grace through faith and baptism.
@@Standing.W.Israel Amen
@@Standing.W.Israel amen
If my child died before I had even heard of Jesus it would be comforting to know there may be an option. (you and your family will be saved). It's a stretch I know but I like it. lol