Front triangle: traditional versus knee-turn method
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- Опубліковано 1 лют 2024
- There are many set ups for the front triangle choke - and many ways of locking it up and finishing it. Here, we go over the new knee-turn method of locking up the triangle off of a shin pummel. We contrast that with the more traditional method of lifting the hips, and passing the arm across the body - which is still an excellent method, and one I use.
In my Academy (Renzo Gracie Northern Valley) I will tend to show the traditional locking method in fundamentals class, so students understand the mechanics of what is required for a tight triangle, including what it is like to have the arm across the body. in advance class I teach the knee method so students have different ways of locking it up that they can implement into their game. #bjj #grappling #bjjlife #jiujitsu #bjjtraining #brazilianjiujitsu #bjjlifestyle #submissiongrappling #jiujitsulife #jiujitsutechnique #triangle #trianglechoke
Awesome video; clear, concise, good audio and camera.
Thank you!
Yeah dude. Amen.
Clearing that shoulder is so good for someone a little vertically challenged, really changed the game for me when i couldnt seem to get them.
Awesome!
Wow this is great, last session someone escaped my regular triangle but this technique would have definitely locked it in thanks for the video.
Glad it helped!
It works great also if you lock up the classic triangle where you’re facing him directly, then you reach under and grab the leg and cut the angle while the triangle is already locked and it cinches it even tighter.
Yes. Grabbing the leg and cutting that hard angle is a great option, as it helps your shin/calf go straight across the neck, increases choking pressure, lowers their defensive options, and prevents them from lifting you. I often advise to grab the leg with either method.
that's ... pretty darn good information. damn man. thanks!
You’re welcome! Glad you liked it
OUTSTANDING
Thank you!
Thank you...book marked and will revisit periodically until I have this set. Cheers.
Thank you! Please do!
Outstanding. Thank you professor 🙏🏾
You are very welcome
really looking forward to trying this!
worth a try
awesomeee🔥🔥🔥
Seem easy and new, I will try. Thanks you 😊😊
I'm not a triangle guy but this makes me want to put the next 6 months of Upper body sub practice towards refinement of these tweaks. Much appreciated. I'm a thick leg guy. Triangles are the only time I hate having meat on my bones😅
Depending on how short or thick your legs are, if you eliminate your opponents shoulder from the lock and get your shin/calf across the neck with their neck right against the back of your knee, you should be able to triangle most people. If you have thick legs, locking on triangles can be more difficult, but once they’re locked in, they’re very tight. People with thinner legs can lock them up easier, but often need to take away more space for the choke to be tight.
Outstanding details thanks!
Thank you!
Reeeeally good adjustements! Thanks 🔥
Happy to help!
You boys just blew my fking mind..
🔥🔥
I subscribed for the no gi content. Please post more like this.
Awesome!!!!!
Thank you!
Beast move
Thank you so much for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
This was great! Thanks!
Glad you liked it! More coming
That entry evolved from Carlson Gracie's open guard system when a guy would have a grip on your belt. He would hold the sleeve, collar and angle his shin over the bicep the same way to pop the grip on the belt and enter the triangle just like you showed in that technique. And great adjustments on that too!
Thanks for the input! Yes, this has been around some time. Joe D’Arce of Darce choke fame showed it to me when we were purple belts probably 20 years ago. Renzo showed it to Joe.
Fantastic concept
Yes! It has learning curve, but it can lock up fast triangles - especially when stacked
this is great...thanks!
You're welcome!
I actually still love to control that arm because it allows you to set up multiple armbars, omoplata's, baratoplatas, and omoplata sweep, pendulum sweeps and other stuff. The only dangerous part about controlling that arm is that your opponent can punch that fist through to the ground, stack you, and step over your head with both feet and unlock your control. He can also sit down and use the same method to get out.
Hi! You can still armlock the trapped arm with this variation. The classic arm-trap method does carry the risk of that defense, but you can negate that still by grabbing the leg, as their safest option for this escape is to rotate towards their trapped arm. There is also a variation of that escape without putting the fist on the floor, but once again, it’s negated by grabbing the leg.
The sit down escape you mention is also effective, but it’s a late stage escape and can be difficult for the opponent to do if you grab the leg and get a good angle. They have little time if it’s locked on.
A good example of a late stage escape that is similar was seen by Roger Gracie vs Xande Rebeiro in 2005.
Thank you
You're welcome
Beautiful ❤
Thank you! 😊
🤯
Great vantage points and instructions thank you! What happens if they hide the arm? Grab your shin with the squeeze and pull head down?
Thank you! If they hide their arm behind under your hip and even connect their hands, a great option is to switch to the “opposite triangle” or “hantai sankaku” to use John Danaher’s terms. We used to call it the backwards triangle. There are a few ways of applying it, but one method is to invert the knee on the side where his arm in trapped, swing under, and lock the triangle with the opposite leg. From there you can choke or lock a kimura.
good stuff
Thank you
amazings vidéo
Thank you!
Great details...keep up the Great work 👍
Thanks, will do!
My biggest issue here is that left knee never seems to be stable enough frame to keep their right arm from pulling out… i like controlling the arm because I’m not good at using that knee to keep the arm in. If that makes sense.
I understand what you’re saying. If your hips are elevated high under their armpit, they should not be able to pull the arm out. If you anchor on their head or your shin with your arm, (my left in the video) you can elevate your hips. When your hips are floating and elevated, the knee is pretty stable. If you prefer the arm-control method, that’s perfectly fine - they both work very well. I use both methods.
@@carlmassarobjj5756I’ll work with that ! Thanks 👊🏻
Pedro Sauer taught the triangle with the hip rotation and knee pinch several decades ago.
This is old tech, I'm sure Danaher popularized it in his circle but this isn't a new evolution in triangles.
Interesting. I don’t doubt that. I’ve first saw this from John over a decade ago. He could have gotten it from Sauer or came up with it independently. I’ll ask him. Thanks for the input.
@carlmassarobjj5756 I doubt Pedro taught the Renzo guys.
It's possible, but I think it's more likely they both had the same foundational material, and it was probably developed independently by several people. I'm guessing aspects of the hip rotation and knee pinch were taught sometime before/above Pedro. Maybe something already being developed by Rolls, who was a mentor and inspiration to both wings of cousins from both the Carlos and Helio sides of the family. Because I'm sure Pedro got it from or with Rickson and Rickson got a ton from Rolls who was actively cross-training outside of BJJ.
You've been doing this much longer than me, but I've been doing this a lot longer than most of the people who only jumped into BJJ in the last 5 years, and my experience and history-nerding has led me to believe that there are only a small number of techniques that were truly singularly developed by one guy. I see far more often that similar approaches are co-developed by people who largely don't even interact with each other.
I've done this at least long enough to remember BJJ before the DDS took over the world and before Danahers name was known even by hobbyist white and blue belts.
I saw plenty of West Coast Helio based gyms with little to no interaction with East Coast or Renzo side of the family who were teaching at least the basics of the angle turn and knee pinch 20 years ago, long before Danaher became the most popular coach in the game.
When I saw it from Pedro, he taught almost every point that John teaches in the basic fundamentals of his enter the system Triangles. The angle turn and the knee pinch are taught as fundamental "invisible jiu jitsu" attributes of a perfect triangle.
At white belt we were taught a combo of both methods. We got into the triangle with the old school wrist punch/pin and stepping off their hip to get the high guard, but the hip swivel and knee pinch were always taught as proper finishing mechanics (and control/position/posture maintenance mechanics. They really emphasized how a proper knee pinch and floating your hips to apply downward pressure with the pinch makes the opponent carry much more of your weight).
It's possibly Pedro got it from some visit with the Renzo guys in the late 90s but I'm guessing it was something that was already out there that John just really systematized and made obvious in his circle. I think Pedro is similar to John in that they are both at the top end of genius minds for BJJ, truly at the pinnacle of understanding and transmitting the deepest aspects of movement and control in BJJ. Danaher has rightfully "gotten his flowers" in the last decade. I hope someday that Pedro gets his, at least in the gi world. I think there are very few people who have the library of tech and depth of knowledge in the gi as Pedro.
Anyways, appreciate the reply from you, an absolute legend in the game. You are a gem in our sport and I think you are a true gentleman for all the amazing, high level tech you put out for free on the internet.
Respect and salutations, Carl!
Hi, I completely agree with you. Moves are very often co-developed independently without any influence from others. The human body is universal in its overall mechanics and movement, so it’s of no surprise when similar or identical techniques are discovered or re-discovered elsewhere, or at different times.
This is very common in grappling arts where seemingly similar and even identical techniques are seen in different styles from different parts of the world, and across history. For example, if you look at the wrestling scenes from the tomb of Beni Hasan in Egypt c. 2000 BCE, you will see familiar single legs, clinches, throws, grapevines, etc. You will also see the same on Ancient Greek vases depicting their sports of Pankration and wrestling, as well as in fighting manuals from medieval and early-modern Europe, to name a few.
I have no doubt that someone as high-level and innovative as Pedro Sauer came up with this on his own - or Rickson, Rolles Sr, Carlson, or any other great minds of the art. I personally never saw it before John started using it over a decade ago. I appreciate you letting me know that Perdo Suer was doing this far earlier. Pedro is one of the greats of the art, and no doubt contributed more than many people realize.
Yes I can confirm the pivot off the shoulder using the knee was being used since I started jiu-jitsu in 1996. It was and still is what I teach for armbars as well.
@TeachMeGrappling Damn, I got two legends who I would love to be coached by in my comment thread.
Thanks for all the amazing, free info you put out as well, Brian!
I've been hitting "ghost" escapes out of bottom side since blue belt because of you.
Much respect.
Excellent video. That aside though... holy crap look at those SHOULDERS! Is Jeff the JUGGERNAUT?
Yes! He’s 240. Very strong guy.
Ryan Hall showed this on a DVD like 20 years ago and people are still flipping this shit for likes lmao
I'd you allow the opponent to keep base, there is close to zero shot of finishing the triangle.
Hi Chris, you can finish the triangle even if they have their base. Whether they’re on their knees or on their feet, or one knee. What matters is cutting the angle, getting the back of your knee against their neck, and eliminating the shoulder. If you can grab a leg and knee-turn to get into that finishing position, you should finish. Grabbing the leg if often easier when they’re on two feet and stacking.
I've failed at a zillion triangles. The opponent usually postures up and drags my hips into his lap. This affords the defender with a lot of opportunities for anti-triangle shenanigans. As a purple belt who got sick and tired of this happening, I remembered something that was shown to me by black belt Keith Owen back when I was a white belt. He did a sort of snap down with his legs to totally compromise the opponent's base. I recently saw video of Firas Zahabi demonstrating something similar. I started playing around with it, and voila! I realized that once I stretched them out and got them leaning forward into my triangle, they are virtually helpless. I respect your move though. One of the brown belts was showing this Damager setup the other day. My take on it was that the opponent can still do an escape shown by JJ Machado. Everyone has their own preferences though, but I have lately been doing all my sub attempts from guard with some element of base disruption to minimize their defenses. Thanks for replying. Oss!
Yes, that’s a common defense, but it requires them to get upright posture. If you control their head with your free hand or hold your shin while it’s properly across their neck, they will not be able to posture and start that defense. They have to fight to clear their head before they can sit up and pull you onto their hips. While you’re controlling posture as described above and shown in the video, you should be looking to hook with the hand and make an angle. With the arm-control method, you are controlling both their posture and the arm they would use to posture/frame. The counter to this defense shown to you by Kieth Owen is very good - a knee pull to get their head/posture back down so you can lock it up. You can also do a “hand spring” and push them backwards if you can’t get them forwards, but must be aware of leg exposure as you get on top. I haven’t seen the video of Firas’ counter, but he’s a phenomenal black belt and very innovative, so I’m sure it’s very good.
Thanks for being so concise and explaining the reasoning as you go along mate 👍🏻
Glad to help!