As Eric Montes pointed out I accidentally named the first input resistor as R1. The schematic called this one as R2 which is of course correct. Do not confuse that! So thanks Eric!
comparing the scheme of both, some more changes can be made, there are values of caps that could be changed, but I don't know if it would affect in stereo mode, great video
Welcome Renato! The BBD chips got the most influence to the core tone of a chorus. Because of their polarity these are not easy interchangable. The MN3101/3007 create a different kind of movement in the waveform. This tiny difference is crutial to some ears.... you should also see my other CE-3 video there is some more info to the subject: ua-cam.com/video/bQsYTgh2bVc/v-deo.html
Q1 in the CE-3 is an N-channel J-FET which requires a 1Meg input impedance for unity gain. Q1 in a CE-2 is a general transistor which works very different. It requires 470k impedance to get unity gain. Lowering R4 isn´t a good idea. I had changed the input Q1 on CE-3 Pedals serval times to different transistors with minor sucess. Q1 doesn´t shape the tone. The BBD´s shape the tone. (different bias - vs+ different voltage and pinout on these btw.)
What exactly does the mod do ? I understand that you’re converting it to a CE-2. But what is actually happening. Is there a volume increase ? Frequency response change? I just purchased a CE-3 and I’m wondering if it would be better to keep it stock and just build a ce-2.
welcome. It is simply not possible to build a stock CE-2 without the long obsolete MN3101 and MN3007. These chips are even out of phase in comparsion to the circuit used in the later CE-3 Models and are not interchangeable. A modded C-3 will always have that slightly uniqe wobblyness in its modulations.(more like a CE-1) A stereo pedal will always be slightly lower in Mono output because one part of the signal sine wave is routed away from the circuit early on and you can not add it without cancelling out and therefore subtracting some frequencies. The CE-3 is designed to sound equally loud when used in stereo mode and not louder when engaged. If you play the pedal in mono only - then I would recommend the first (volume mod) part. The other changes described give the pedal a similar frequency response as it´s predecessor which is what many people preferred.
Just found those components laying among parts removed from other mods. Just to be sure, is it R2 not R1 the one is supposed to be replaced? Remove R18, change R2 and C21. Correct? Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Eric for asking this question! It is indeed R2...as you see in the first part of the schematic. And of course contrary to my mistaken words a little later in the presentation. It is the 1.resistor at the input but named R2 in the schematic. So thanks Eric Montes for pointing that out! And yes to question Nr. 2!
@@MrJLobster Done. Sounds good. Question: I notice that using the pedal as vibrato via output A by changing mode while using only one cable now sounds dull compared with chorus. Anything that might help? Thanks again
@@ericspr The vibrato is a result of subtracting the direct signal from the effect signal. At vibrato mode the signal is loosing some volume in the modded and also the unmodded version. But it should not sound dull. Examine the solder joints again carefully if everything is ok - no cold joints no short circuits. Change C21 to a cap of inproved quality. Good Luck!
@@MrJLobster Thanks. Dropped an orange drop cap for C21. Not bad at all. Also change a resistor to increase rate speed. I liked and enjoy the overall result. #quarentinetherapy
@Dietmar; if you like those kind of Videos you may also like my video of the Possibly Rarest and Forgotten Boss Pedal Ever at: ua-cam.com/video/SL92E3dnAkQ/v-deo.html
Hello buddy! Thanks for this video, i'm gonna try these mods today. One question, do i need to place a jumper in place of r18? or do i just need to remove it only. Have a great day!
@@MrJLobster Thanks a lot for your video mate, its really helpful. I just added a depth mod swapping c25 with a 100pf cap. It does sound really good. Have you tried this?
@@metalhead76250 You measure Pin 7 of the IC to ground. I have to add that my input voltage at the socket was 9,3V to ground. So your voltage may differ. Real propper biasing would require an oscilloscope but it isn´t too critical to find your sweet spot as long as you don´t exceed the 6,3V maximum voltage rating of C20.
Just to clarify doubts: If I remove the R 18 the pedal will work normally? And after making the changes, should I adjust the bias of ic 5, pin 7 to 5.4v?
Yes it will work normally. It is not necessary to bias if the pedal do great but you should at least measure if the dc voltage is (a few millivolts) AROUND 5,4V. If it is way off, 5,4V is a good center point. If you do you have to power the pedal from the same source you intend to use with the pedal. It should at least deliver 9,0V or greater under load. (PSA adapter) Hope you sucess.
Very correct! As I said in the beginning. If you don´t dasy chain them with at least one other 9V PSA pedal of any brand you have to convert it. There´s a lot info out there about this topic so I skiped that.
@Wilmer Waarbroek All those four you named are indeed 9V . The CS-2 and the CE-3 Pedals use an ACA 9V adapter. The open circuit voltage of those ACA adapters is around 12V. The regulation to 9V is accomplished internally in the pedal. Using a modern 9V PSA adapter with one of those pedals will drop the circuit voltage down to 6V and the pedal isn´t working right. Nevertheless connecting a PSA and an ACA Pedal together does cancel the missmatch by design. The connector switch in the jack socket takes out the dropping resistor for you. If you use the ACA Pedals alone - you have to use the ACA adapter or make the voltage mod. Hope that helps!
What is R2 doing? Is it just attenuating the signal a bit before going through the High pass filter into Q1? Shouldn’t that be part of the volume mod then?
Lowering R2 does increase the volume of CERTAIN frequencys not the whole spectrum. The conjunction of R2 C1 and R4 was (original) designed to not alter your bypass signal.
@@MrJLobster the function of R2 is to mostly protect Q1 from too much current in general, right? You don’t think this a problem, is 1k enough protection? Just curious what is the benefit to going lower, it doesn’t seem to change the input impedance by very much?
@@voxpathfinder15r Altering R2 is part of the CE-3 to CE-2 tone Mod. I noticed that a CE-2 cuts out the lowest lows - it is a little slimmer over all. R2 at least on my CE-3 unit did the oposite. The upper low signal is fed up some. Restict the lows in the beginning and free up the bandwith later in the path did the trick. The BBD´s causing the difference. Don´t forget this. It´s not the input impedance. I´ve sorted that out with different Jfets many times. We can only get somewhat closer... 1k is enough protection to the gate of a 2sk30A N-Channel jfet. IGmax=10mA, Vgso=-50V.
As Eric Montes pointed out I accidentally named the first input resistor as R1. The schematic called this one as R2 which is of course correct. Do not confuse that! So thanks Eric!
comparing the scheme of both, some more changes can be made, there are values of caps that could be changed, but I don't know if it would affect in stereo mode, great video
Welcome Renato! The BBD chips got the most influence to the core tone of a chorus. Because of their polarity these are not easy interchangable. The MN3101/3007
create a different kind of movement in the waveform. This tiny difference is crutial to some ears.... you should also see my other CE-3 video there is some more info to the subject: ua-cam.com/video/bQsYTgh2bVc/v-deo.html
Hello. Such a detailed info and work. Thank you very much for sharing. Could you explain what is the function of R18 and C21? Thanks in advance
Excellent info. I'll consider this next time i see a CE-3 for sale locally
Good Luck GoyoSound! Thanks for your comment
One more detail: The resistance R4 of CE3 the value is 1 M and in CE 2 it is 470 K. Did you try this modification? What can change in the timbre?
Q1 in the CE-3 is an N-channel J-FET which requires a 1Meg input impedance for unity gain.
Q1 in a CE-2 is a general transistor which works very different. It requires 470k impedance to get unity gain. Lowering R4 isn´t a good idea.
I had changed the input Q1 on CE-3 Pedals serval times to different transistors with minor sucess.
Q1 doesn´t shape the tone. The BBD´s shape the tone. (different bias - vs+ different voltage and pinout on these btw.)
@@MrJLobster Demonstration of a lot of knowledge, congratulations and thanks.
stomp bilder good job
The CE-3 still sounds a little bit metallic but great vid !!
What exactly does the mod do ?
I understand that you’re converting it to a CE-2.
But what is actually happening.
Is there a volume increase ?
Frequency response change?
I just purchased a CE-3 and I’m wondering if it would be better to keep it stock and just build a ce-2.
welcome. It is simply not possible to build a stock CE-2 without the long obsolete MN3101 and MN3007. These chips are even out of phase in comparsion to the circuit used in the later CE-3 Models and are not interchangeable.
A modded C-3 will always have that slightly uniqe wobblyness in its modulations.(more like a CE-1)
A stereo pedal will always be slightly lower in Mono output because one part of the signal sine wave is routed away from the circuit early on and you can not add it without cancelling out and therefore subtracting some frequencies.
The CE-3 is designed to sound equally loud when used in stereo mode and not louder when engaged. If you play the pedal in mono only - then I would recommend the first (volume mod) part.
The other changes described give the pedal a similar frequency response as it´s predecessor which is what many people preferred.
Just found those components laying among parts removed from other mods. Just to be sure, is it R2 not R1 the one is supposed to be replaced? Remove R18, change R2 and C21. Correct? Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Eric for asking this question! It is indeed R2...as you see in the first part of the schematic. And of course contrary to my mistaken words a little later in the presentation. It is the 1.resistor at the input but named R2 in the schematic. So thanks Eric Montes for pointing that out!
And yes to question Nr. 2!
@@MrJLobster Done. Sounds good. Question: I notice that using the pedal as vibrato via output A by changing mode while using only one cable now sounds dull compared with chorus. Anything that might help? Thanks again
@@ericspr The vibrato is a result of subtracting the direct signal from the effect signal. At vibrato mode the signal is loosing some volume in the modded and also the unmodded version. But it should not sound dull.
Examine the solder joints again carefully if everything is ok - no cold joints no short circuits. Change C21 to a cap of inproved quality. Good Luck!
@@MrJLobster Thanks. Dropped an orange drop cap for C21. Not bad at all. Also change a resistor to increase rate speed. I liked and enjoy the overall result. #quarentinetherapy
@@ericspr What was the resistor you changed?
Genau passend für mich !!
@Dietmar; if you like those kind of Videos you may also like my video of the Possibly Rarest and Forgotten Boss Pedal Ever at: ua-cam.com/video/SL92E3dnAkQ/v-deo.html
Hello buddy! Thanks for this video, i'm gonna try these mods today. One question, do i need to place a jumper in place of r18? or do i just need to remove it only. Have a great day!
just remove it!
@@MrJLobster Thanks a lot for your video mate, its really helpful. I just added a depth mod swapping c25 with a 100pf cap. It does sound really good. Have you tried this?
@@MrJLobster one last question, on what pins of ic 5 must i test with my multi metee along with pin 7 to measure the bias of my pedal?
@@metalhead76250 nice mod!
@@metalhead76250 You measure Pin 7 of the IC to ground. I have to add that my input voltage at the socket was 9,3V to ground. So your voltage may differ.
Real propper biasing would require an oscilloscope but it isn´t too critical to find your sweet spot as long as you don´t exceed the 6,3V maximum voltage rating of C20.
how do you measure 5.4v with a multi meter to point 7 of IC5 to Ground
Just to clarify doubts: If I remove the R 18 the pedal will work normally? And after making the changes, should I adjust the bias of ic 5, pin 7 to 5.4v?
Yes it will work normally. It is not necessary to bias if the pedal do great but you should at least measure if the dc voltage is (a few millivolts) AROUND 5,4V. If it is way off, 5,4V is a good center point. If you do you have to power the pedal from the same source you intend to use with the pedal. It should at least deliver 9,0V or greater under load. (PSA adapter) Hope you sucess.
I learned this week that Japanese Boss pedals are 12 volts ACA and to have a better performance, I would have to convert to 9 volts PSA. This is true?
Very correct! As I said in the beginning. If you don´t dasy chain them with at least one other 9V PSA pedal of any brand you have to convert it. There´s a lot info out there about this topic so I skiped that.
@Wilmer Waarbroek All those four you named are indeed 9V .
The CS-2 and the CE-3 Pedals use an ACA 9V adapter. The open circuit voltage of those ACA adapters is around 12V. The regulation to 9V is accomplished internally in the pedal.
Using a modern 9V PSA adapter with one of those pedals will drop the circuit voltage down to 6V and the pedal isn´t working right. Nevertheless connecting a PSA and an ACA Pedal together does cancel the missmatch by design. The connector switch in the jack socket takes out the dropping resistor for you.
If you use the ACA Pedals alone - you have to use the ACA adapter or make the voltage mod. Hope that helps!
It's the old pink lable CEB-3 you modded?
CEB-3: I haven`t moded this so far.. Thanks for your question cc
@@MrJLobster woukd it be possible to mod the digital version?
@@CC-fi3pp The analog part could probably be modded but the question is what do you want to achieve.
What is R2 doing? Is it just attenuating the signal a bit before going through the High pass filter into Q1? Shouldn’t that be part of the volume mod then?
Lowering R2 does increase the volume of CERTAIN frequencys not the whole spectrum. The conjunction of R2 C1 and R4 was (original) designed to not alter your bypass signal.
@@MrJLobster the function of R2 is to mostly protect Q1 from too much current in general, right? You don’t think this a problem, is 1k enough protection? Just curious what is the benefit to going lower, it doesn’t seem to change the input impedance by very much?
@@voxpathfinder15r Altering R2 is part of the CE-3 to CE-2 tone Mod. I noticed that a CE-2 cuts out the lowest lows - it is a little slimmer over all. R2 at least on my CE-3 unit did the oposite. The upper low signal is fed up some. Restict the lows in the beginning and free up the bandwith later in the path did the trick. The BBD´s causing the difference. Don´t forget this. It´s not the input impedance. I´ve sorted that out with different Jfets many times. We can only get somewhat closer...
1k is enough protection to the gate of a 2sk30A N-Channel jfet. IGmax=10mA, Vgso=-50V.
@@MrJLobster thanks for the info, I want try this out myself at least use my capacitor box and change the capacitor values while playing!
😎🇨🇦👍
plese mod point