the doctor mediator is pushing his bias in subtle manner. Nonetheless, here just for Sanjeev. Sanjeev may not be as good with words as Shashi but his knowledge is much better and refreshing
6 років тому+14
Shivam Goel - let us not compare. I too am a big fan of Sanjeev, and he has done a lot of original, self driven research and digging in many areas. Brilliant guy. But Sashi is an absolute legend. His depth of knowledge is mind boggling. Watch his two debates with Zareer Masani and Anita Anand (on British colonialism). Zareer Masani comes prepared with full research, and Sashi just has his memory to quote from and refute him. And he still ABSOLUTELY DEMOLISHES him. Even in this debate, watch the part where the doctor talks of maraia spreading during the construction of railways - and Sashi comes in with more accurate and exact details and facts. And the fact about morzarella cheese indirectly coming as a result of this. His length, breadth & depth of knowledge - and his memory are mind boggling.
@@benefactor4309 what type of books has Shashi written ? Any book for reference ? Sanjeev sanyal is a top notch economist with interest in history. Sanyal has written books with real facts and substance. You name any book of shashi which is different and with facts ?
The anchor is so irritating...he didn't let Sanjeev elucidate his argument at the intro about myths surrounding Aryans in India. Mr Sarkar's interruptions are really annoying!
Moderator: annoying Mr. Tharoor: historian with a biased agenda criticizing others who have an equally biased agenda, loves bashing the British to the point of tedium Mr. Sanyal: real historian/scholar, fascination with and love for the little known historical facts shows through
Only reason why tharoor is able to criticize the British is because they're not a constituency. Otherwise he wouldn't have, just a thorough politician, not a historian. He would never repeat the atrocities of the Mughal period loll
Shame on moderator for making cheap remarks and pushing his political agenda. Don't invite these leeches to such honorable events. Looks like a disgusting person. Pretty sure these are the kind of doctors who bring shame to this noble profession.
@@architjain30 shashi should either become a major leader in congress or just leave politics altogether. he's rational until it comes to the past doings of the congress, he's wasting his intellect by always defending his party
Sanjeev Sanyal is so refreshing to listen to when he paints the right picture of ancient India. Shashi Tharoor too, except for his views that have a flavour of his party's ideology
fealdorf defending or suppressing mullah atrocities before the colonial rule indicates pseudo-liberal/commie ideology which his party also follows when it comes to mullah vote bank
Shashi just proved Sanjeev’s point by calling Bhagat Singh’s act as foolish. Sanjeev is way more tolerant as he is smiling at so many subtle remarks by both but somehow mentioning Congress just triggered them big time!
Yes belittling the revolutionaries and supporting the myth of our Independence as narrated till date in text books, might be due to political allegiance..
It’s really sad that generations have been raised on the kind of history books we have in our school system. Really like the idea about turning Victoria Memorial to a colonial history museum. And Sanjeev Sanyal’s recommendations on the evidence based history of our country that we need current and future generations to learn and know about. Hope to see the light of these🙏
He legit didn't let Sanjeev end the debate lmao. Tbh Shashi Tharoor should join BJP and end his mental block, but if he doesn't then f*ck him, he's for the streets 🙂 Sanjeev Sanyal > Thoorued
At 1:03, If British has to apologize for the atrocities during colonial era, who will apology for the bigger atrocity and butchering Indian heritage for 700 years during Islamic era.
To the answer of the question about ‘how brits could rule India’, he answered ‘Brits hired people with darker skin but English in mind’. Weren’t Nehru the same? He despised the Dhamric culture or shall I say not nurtured it well. Congress secularized everything for Dharmic faiths but given free hands to Abrahamic faiths. Nehru himself continued/implemented Macaulay system of education
You say that of nehru but same applies to shashi, not matter how hard he tries to be Indian to the core. His command of English & accent & and his mannerisms betrays him. He desperately wants to glorify Hinduism but is being checked by his politically correctness. Don't want to step on Muslim toes. Despite my critism of him I would love to see him as leader of Congress.
Brits were able to rule India with the help of upper class landlords, zamindars, and kings who were fighting among themselves and social and class inequality really played a role.. If you look at a list of kingdoms which supported British during various revolts like in 1857, you will be never surprised.. Blaming Nehru for everything is a fashion these days..
Shashi is contradictiong his own statement that he personally want Mahabharata, Ramayana in class but not as a Hindu religious text. I mean first question is are they not? yes they are the Hindu texts only and no effort should be made to secularise the text of Ramayana and Mahabharata. Otherwise the teachings in those texts would lose their contextual meaning.
how is he wrong? some schools also have parts of Iliad and Odyssey as part of their course ,yet no one is preaching Hellenic religious beliefs through it. Epics should be celebrated for what they're ..great fiction
Indian ethos is religious. We cant separate religion from society and it is good that way. Except for communalism seeded by Jinnah and responded to by Golwalkar.
Sanjeev Sanyal has clarified this too (please refer his IIT Kharagpur speech video as well) ... they are not just India's epics, but the "Itihasa"s (Sanskrit for History) ... they are ancient texts with history, tradition and myth interwoven together ... the religious layer was added later. From modern Hindu perspective, yes, they are Hindu religious texts - no doubt, but for an objective history student (as one should be in regular schools, except maybe in purely religious contexts), they are not. For example, Sanjeev Sanyal has mentioned that Ramayana was first of all, a simple story of a king rescuing his lady from an evil power, then the ethical questions of the times were added on top of it, for e.g. whether the kings are also under the law or not, to answer this the part of Rama relinquishing Sita was added (early versions of Valmiki Ramayana did not have this). Finally, when monotheistic religions came up, the theistic (religious) part was added with strong flavour, when Rama became Bhagwaan (as in the Tulsidas version of Ramayana). These later enrichments are missing in the early versions of Ramayana as still practised in South East Asia (such as Indonesia where it's extremely popular).
Are Hellenic religious beliefs equal to that of Sanatana Dharma 's? Once you make it secular, the perceived Hindu part will be digested and the left over symbolic secular part will be reinterpreted to meet secular needs. The original message veiled in symbolism will be lost once and for all. Vedas suffered the same fate. (may refer Aurobindo's books). Look what they did to Yog, now Christians have rebranded it as Holy yoga, jesus the yogi so on and so forth, shreeding of the religious part, reinterpreting the asanas meanings to suit Christian needs and a thousand years later they will assert it to be a Christian practice. If Dharmic people sell their cultures in the name of secularism, there will be nothing left in it. We might learn from what happened to Pagans. I would urge to go through Ancient India's books, scriptures, world religious dynamics from ancient times till date. That might give you a leverage position to form your opinion
Says something about you too. Sanyal or Sasi Tharoor does not speak from original historical research, just secondary sources, which were available for you to read too. Again, these 2 held very demanding jobs too, so most people cannot complain that they had a busier job!
@Prathmesh Tiwari, sorry there could be original sources but broad facts and their interpretation (discussed here) was very familiar to me. Great if you could specify the point raised which was from original sources.
I asked you to point out which original fact Sanyal stated in the discussion (as you pointed out). As for Sanyal having a different interpretation (from Thapar I gather ?) I do not discount it. I was amused at how many people whine for something not being included in a school history book. On reflection, I believe they are right to complain for not receiving a critical history education; as a consequence being surprised by facets that were not expressly presented in their textbook.
Great discussion! But I beg to differ with Mr. Sashi Tharoor, regarding the revolutionaries. There is dichotomy in his own argument. He says Bhagat Singh's efforts were "futile" and doing "utterly foolish" things. At the same breath, INC or Gandhi's peace freedom movement was not successful over night. It took many years of failures before it got its mass folowing. We know that the INC was amply supported by the Brithsh. Similarly Nationalist revolutionies like Bhagat singh and friends have knowingly thrown himself at the gallows but the flames they ignited oneday caught the imagination of the youth of the day. They created awareness among the public and brought the issues to public attention when news was suppressed. Their stories and sacrifices lived on, particulary among the future generations and among the Subhash chandra Bose's Indian national army. The attrocities commited by the British against the INA soldiers from Armed forces angered soldiers who sympathised with their patriotic counterparts in the INA. Subsequently the death sentences have culminated in to rebellion on the British naval forces in Mumbai. According to most modern historians and also as Mr Tharror says the rebellion of the 1946 is the prime mover for the British leaving India. To note, Quit India was in 1942 and there was major movement later apart from this rebellion post world war, that made British to take the decision in a haste. There is a link between the 1857 India's first war of independence, inspiring India house revolts by Savarkar. Subsequent hardships people faced in the Kaalapani, Andamans islands, Bhagat Singh's execution, Bose's INA struggles and finally revolt of the naval command. Each one of then drew inspiration from previous sacrifices. These are commited people for the cause of nation. They dreamed of the final result of liberation of mother India not individual success, glory, publicity and titles. They are the reason how we get inspired as a nation at the time of need. They become symbols of "never give up attitude" at the time of subjugation and oppression. Their noble sacrifices of the great revolutionaries who dedicated every thing including their lives at the altar of motherland are inspiration for generations. Even with efforts to erase their names, thier lagacy lives on as "Truth prevails" and we are realising their greatess.
It was Subhash Chrandra Bose INA that got us freedom not the INC. Mr. Clement Atlee, FMR PM, Britain said in meeting in 1956 with Bengal Governor. INC was waiting for transfer of power to happen on August 15 1947. Real Independence day should be October 21, 1943
Anchor Dr is so full of himself. Sanjeev Sanyal is a true gentleman. Mr Tharoor can speak from any side. Unfortunately he is not being used while in Congress to his potential. Wish he could join BJP during Modi regime
I guess SS will be a leader in the future... he is cool n absolute on his points... he has got depths... let's see... we will embrace him full heatedly if he wishes....
Shashi Tharoor is all nice and erudite until he hears the G word. The moment Gandi dynasty pops up, he turns into a moron. In one moment he told, revolutionaries were failures, so Gandhi decided to "shame" British rule by "fasting", and get freedom that way. In the next moment he said, due to second world war, British economy was in a delicate situation. The Naval Mutiny brought it on its knees. That's the reason they left India. Well, did British Empire left India because of the Naval Mutiny, or because of Gandhi's "fasting"? Asat sange narak vaas. That's the case with Shashi.
Prabal Chakravarty Freedom did not come by fasting. We all know what Clement Attlee said why Britain left India. They were afraid of a Second Mutiny after Indian Navy personals revolted in sympathy with INA commanders.
Sadly the Revolutionaries were not successful, they weren't able to bring any actual change, when was the last revolutionary attack pre independence. And see how long it took to get independence.
After speaking eloquently and absolutely mesmerizing with amazing newly uncovered historical facts for an hour, Shashi Tharoor at 59 min , does a somersault and starts to speak utter childish rubbish to defend the horrendous acts of his Congress party of distorting and manipulating the Indian history to suit the agenda of one particular family and party. Bhagat Singh and all other revolutionaries failed he says...he doesn't realise what impact the sacrifice of Bhagat Singh and many such individually acting revolutionaries must have had on the suppressed and slavish mindsets of Indians during those dreadful times. These revolutionaries might have lost their lives but the fire that they started in the hearts and minds of people, consumed the queen's empire and crown. That was the actual victory. But I do not expect some one like Tharoor to understand that because when you are a bootlicker/asskisser of an intellectual giant such as Rahul Gandhi, pacified slave mentality is a natural consequence. Oh Tharoor, you are such a waste of a brilliant mind. Pathetic!
As soon as Sanjeev belittled Mughals and said it was the Marathas who were ruling when the British arrived. The moderator interrupts and ask about Ashoka. Biased bigots like him try to push an agenda
Excellent, listen to after 56 mins, 1946 is where our first Independence occurred(Navel mutiny with Army/Airforce refused to oppose!!) , after seeing this British realized they can no longer rule, started political dialog. This among others is completely missing in Indian History books. Thanks to the Leftist.
Curiously, the political dialogue had started just before the naval mutiny, in *January* 1946, with the visit to India of a delegation from the British Parliament. However, memory of the mutiny probably influenced the decision to choose an extraordinarily short timetable for _implementing_ Independence in the summer of 1947.
@Rupendra Sharma not sure about the video you are mentioning but I have seen the interview of the BC Dutta, the man who started it. I have read many Books including RC Majumdar and some from the modern writers having reference of the now disclosed transfer of power documents by the British government. So I have enough knowledge about it. It was all about how Netaji and INA destroyed the loyalty of the Indian soldiers towards British and there was no role of any political dialogue as mentioned by one Gandhian in the comments.
@Rupendra Sharma because this person pastpresented was talking about political dialogue of Congress, hinting Naval mutiny had something to do with it ... So I asked him whether he knows the real reason because for Congress till mid 1945 INA was some misguided people and they changed their stand just because public was completely behind Netaji and INA and Congress would have lost ground if they didn't support... Congress didn't support the mutiny and later removed all the officers associated with it from Indian Navy... They made the propaganda of non-violence and Gandhi brought the freedom... Now as people have started to know the real reason some Congress people are trying to say Congress was behind the mutiny ... That's why I asked him to shoot direct rather Making a half hearted comment
The Islamic forces brought Persian culture, then one of the most advanced in the world. The Brahmins didn't want it, because it undermined their status.
Sanjeev is great. His expanse of knowledge about India and his patriotism dwarfs the other two men. We need more people like Sanjeev to glorify the Indian history and take pride in it.
It's not about Congress or BJP. It's about the type of government we have developed. They tell us what they want us to know. We should trust our scholars, scientist, researchers and educators rather than these political parties. Politicians always lie, that's the political system we have.
The moderator has no sense of aesthetics. If he wants to cuddle up to Mr Tharoor like an arm candy and interrogate Mr Sanyal, he should know this clown business is not amusing at all.
I am allergic when oxford based Indian elitists ( somes times mistaken as intellectuals) , speak about Indian Civilization . They sound cheap when speaking about the rich sanskrit and indian heritage..
European sense for asian has always been biased and racial ...with the belief that they r superior than asian in every aspect with only diff is that previously the discrimination was openly done and now its subconscious
I am disappointed and appalled by Hon. MP Mr. Shashi Tharoor's opinion stating revolutionaries and independence activists like Bhagt Singhs and Dhingras were failures and British were too strong for Indians. Indian revolutionaries and independence activists "failed" because Indians either stayed neutral, supported British or fought against revolutionaries and independence activists along side of British. England/America educated Mr. Tharoor, please study 1857 and fate of "princely states" that fought British versus that supported or stayed neutral during 1857 revolt. So Mr. Tharoor:- by same token Gandhiji was not "successful" either !!!!! The British had become very weak after the two world wars and could not maintain colonies and left India on their own hastily !!!!!
I want to thank Mr. Tharoor for saying that it is "criminal" for Indian kids to not study Kalidasa (and so one). But a polite query - we have been independent for over 7 decades, most of which has been administered by the Congress, a party to which he belongs and has been in significant positions during multiple times. What has he in particular and governments in general done to improve this situation? Why could they not be included in our curriculum by now (if not all, then some, but we find none)? Why do our children not know of SEA or even Kerala? Shashiji has been at the helm of things for far too long but not sure how much of his knowledge have actually taken ground effect. P.S.: I know he won't probably read this comment but trying my luck :)
In kerala, the statue of the father of malayalam language could not be installed in his birthplace because of strong opposition from the local Muslim population! Sasi will not talk about it.
look how when Sanjeev is about debunk the Aryan invasion theory THE MODERATOR wants to him talk about Asoka what a biased person all these north Indians need to get a real history.
but even Mr Sanyal's knowledge in this regard is incomplete ..recent studies have found that there indeed was something similar..but it was less of an invasion and more of an Aryan Migration and it didn't happen instantaneously , it did gradually over decades ,perhaps centuries . The evidence is out there in the open...even if you trace the origin of North Indian Languages..like Hindi,Punjabi,Bengali ,etc..they all find their root in the Eurasian regions (that's why the nomenclature ..Indo-aryan/indo-european languages ) somewhere north of modern Turkey.For instance German and Bengali are more similar to each other ,than Bengali and Tamil is ! Look up this recent article "Genetics Might Be Settling The Aryan Migration Debate".. that being said..the Indian gene pool is far too mixed up to differentiate now ,due to thousands of years of inter-marriages up until the Gupta period ,when inter caste marriages started becoming a taboo ...Only in isolated tribes of the Northern hills and far flung pockets of Southern India ,one can find significant difference in the genetic makeup .
Invasion necessitates the existence of a large organised army of soldiers..there were no such organised during that time,mostly small bands of tribes..,they were warrior/hunters..they might have raided settlements ..but that would be the extent of it,hardly an invasion .Besides it's scientifically proven ..humans were not inherent to the subcontinent ,african travellers(ancient so called "dravidian" ancestors settled here first ),the other groups came few thousand years later ..so basically all are migrants,probably now extinct neanderthals lived here before that
+soulsentinel Homosapiens were in India even 75000 years ago, before Toba eruption, as per stone tool artifacts discovered in Jwalamukhi. Most likely the ancestors of today's Adivasis or the tribes found in Andamans or Malaysia.
Is there any need to again divide the country on mere geography? How come you are generalising by stating all these north Indians? Shame on us that even after experiencing 1000 years of foreign rule, we are still talk same dividing language.
Sashi is so thorough with the colonial history. Hats of to him. But when it comes to Cheraman Perumal, a Saivaite king going to meet the prophet, Sashi should do a little more research. This Mosque in Kodungallur, in the name of Cheraman, alleged to have been built in 629 CE, which means the Chera king should have left for Saudi Arabia at least in 628 CE. But then in 628 CE Mohammed was still in Medina and he captures Mecca only in 629 CE. These were early years of Islam and there was no codified religion, worship or Koran. It is unbelievable how such a religion in its early stages would attract a Chera King who was Saiva Saint! We did some digging and it appears it is a story created by the Portuguese in the 16th century, and the first one to record this story is Duarte Barbosa (1480-1521 CE). One story recorded by Diogo De Coutos, goes to the extend of saying that the king Cheraman converted to the St Thomas Christianity. You will be well advised to read the Tamil Book 'Periapuranam', which talks about the ultimate fate of King Cheraman Perumal. However this story needs verification! The other utterance Sashi does not fail to make, may be to keep his Christian voters happy, is the St Thomas' visit in the 1st century. Sashi with his flare for thorough research would find the truth about that visit actually never happened. Truth has always been very important in India.
Correctly said, I wonder why Mr Tharoor who talks eloquently on colonial faulty history has no qualms in continuing the historical lies perpetuated on hindus and no one questions out load, esp the Thomas myth & the lies have been exposed with the Thomas mount in chennai but still the missionaries and their sepoys keep pedalling their wares.
Thulasi Das one Arab visited India in 9th century. And he wrote there was no mosque and no muslim in India. This cheraman mosque built in 7th century is lie nothing more than that it was propogated by same people who downgraded Indian civilization history and its achievements
The St Thomas connection is older than England itself! It cannot be a myth perpetrated by missionaries. Missionariies came almost 15 centuries later! Not all of history as we know it is false. Some of it is true.
It is an epitome that posts colonial history of India was predominantly written by Muslim influence due to the Congress regime in power, belligerati, hence no wonder we have the mixed and false account of the history of pre-ages, middle-aged and post-colonial.
Hindus were not united. One of the reason is that not so many Hindus were not going to temples and listening to religious sermons or kathas. Even today Hindus go to temples only few times in whole year. Unity comes by listening Katha or religious preaching.There every Hindus from all castes, rich or poor go, then unity will come. If not possible do two weekly family ghar Sabah in your home with all family members discussing our rich religious and cultural history and civilisation. Once unity come to family then it will spread outwards connecting whole country. This family Sabah is practiced in BAPS organisation which has built 1200 temples creating Guinness book world record.
This anchor proved my concern by bringing in Demonitisation, in between this discussion , which have no connection whatsoever and proved himself to be from Bengal
@PIKU ROY Yes of cause Sanjeeb is Bengali. He is the grand son of the great freedom fighter Sachindra Nath Sanyal who was a companion of Rash bihari Bose and Guru to Bhagat Singh and Chandrasekhar Azad
All amazing speakers on the panel, including Dr. Sarkar with his amusing mediation and diffusing the debate so efficiently when needed. I would've liked to hear more from the brilliant Mr. Sanyal though.
Fan of Shashi Tharoor but oo man Sanjeev Sanyal your beauty. You are simply brilliant. Certainly we have been cheated on the name of history. It's high time to rewrite the history books. Hope government of India consider it. Please GOI🙏
The anchor is unfair, not allowing Sanjeev to drive home the point.Shashi being a Congi became uncomfortable the moment Sanjeev mentioned how effective the revolutionaries we're but betrayed by villains like Gandhi & Nehru.I hope Modi will certainly bring out the correct history of the wars won as well as the wars lost.
Very interesting presentations Enjoyed it Dr Kunal Sarkar has a good sense of humor. Sashi & Sanjeev Sanyal are very euridite & analytical pleasure to hear. Nathan Sekhar Sydney, Australia.
If Shashi Tharoor is demanding, expecting an apology for Jaliyanwala bagh , how on earth can he forget what Islamic rulers have done to India? Are the ruins of Hampi, Modhera, Martand sun temple, Konark, etc, etc (30000 odd structures) not shouting out the painful history which Congress is pushing under the rug? How can appeasement be justified for imposing crushing slavery? Wake up Shashi... Be on the right side of politics. It is thoroughly disturbing to go through the following realistic articles, which are hosted by the Australian site. Having visited Ellora, Ajanta recently, I happened to read these in a quest to find an answer to this vexing question that haunted my mind "what happened to the super-advanced ancient Indian culture (seen at Ajanta, Ellora, Hoysala, Hampi, etc)? {E.g. if you see 9 yard sarees, checkered shirts, striped dresses, they indicate presence of weaving technology's existance, which with numerous other technologies was existant 2000 yrs ago! In those paintings one sees ornaments, carts, houses, metal utensils, etc. which signify metalurgical, machining, building technologies.} We must learn from history and teach it to the forthcoming generations, lest we will be doomed in future. हमारी पाठशालाओंमें यह इतिहास जान बुझकर अनदेखा किया गया है . प्रत्येक भारतीय को यह इतिहास अवगत करा देनाही चाहीये. A. Islam’s Indian slave trade Part I in Islam’s genocidal slavery - (23-02-10) www.australianislamistmonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3312:islams-indian-slave-trade-part-i-in-islams-genocidal-slavery-&catid=170&Itemid=67 B. Islam’s jihad against India 7th-16th century: part J in Islam’s genocidal slavery: - (12-03-10) www.australianislamistmonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3313:islams-jihad-against-india-7th-16th-century-part-j-in-islams-genocidal-slavery&catid=170:slavery&Itemid=59 C. Islam’s jihad against India 16th -21st century: part K in Islam’s genocidal slavery - (03-04-10) www.australianislamistmonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3314:islams-jihad-against-india-16th-21st-century-part-k-in-islams-genocidal-slavery&catid=170:slavery&Itemid=59
Good insight into the forgotten histories of India and the malinterpretation of history we had been exposed in our educational curriculum.This talk inspires us to search for the genuine history from available vestiges surviving the sands of time instead of ingesting the doctored records that shaped our guible minds . Thank you
The discussion was magnificently conducted by Kunal Sarkar whom I would listen to every opportunity I get, but also the erudite speakers who mesmerized in the way they articulated. I would look forward to another session of the three wise men at the soonest possible opportunity.
Sanjeev is brilliant, he talks like a writer; Shashi's knowledge is all wasted and wrongly invested in showing his submission and allegiance to the Khangress
Sashi is sick. Jargons don't make you any good. Sanjeev's knowledge and research is just overwhelming. But he was not allowed by the moderator (idiot) to put forward his points the way he wished. I also feel that our history should be rewritten.
Shashi Tharoor, a Malayali speaking with a special British accent in modern day India is living proof of how succesfull the Brits were in colonizing the Indian minds.
The Congress and the dynasty also need to brush up their memory and answer to everyone why those twenty thousand naval soldiers who took part in the Naval Mutiny of 1946 were NOT taken back into service and given the royal boot.Those soldiers who fought for the INA under Netaji were treated similarly and were NOT recognized as Freedom Fighters till as late as 1972.After Bangladesh War of 1971 these soldiers were surviving under penniless condition and pension was started only in 1972 while those who were chamchas of the dynasty enjoyed all the benefits of our hard earned freedom.Some were taking pension and enjoying free air and rail travel without participating in any struggle be it against the British or the ruling party of the time.Should we all forget this collective Amnesia by the Congress,for the Congress,of the Congress?????????????????????
AlphaQ SecC, Yes. Kartik Poornima is celebrated to show the day wind is favorable for sailing. By seeing the paper boats people will gauge the direction & force of the wind.
high time, we re-write our history books and at least next generation be proud of our history. There are lot of stuff discussed here, we didn't we know till date, bcz it was never discussed abywhere
At @1:04:30, can someone please help me find the article published by a British based Pakistani journalist in The Guardian. I would really appreciate the help as I need it for my research.
The Congress had their own agenda to push forward and that is how we got not only a father but also a cha-cha (Mama). We should also have a museum on the political atrocities committed by the First family on the nation. We would not have had an Aurangazeb Marg but for them later most rightly and deservingly renamed as Abdul Kalam Marg. I miss Netaji Subash Chandra Bose a lot.
I've never been to Kolkata or West Bengal; however, I've recently learned that there is a substantial bias when it comes to views of Bangla people regarding Odia people. Correct me if I'm wrong. If not, I guess this video would help them to understand the rich history and importance of the Odia people in the past. Bharat Mata ki Jai!
each state has it's bias of the unknown,but odias and bengalis are sister ethnicities and for all the biases that might or might not exist,they're more similar than different to each other..in food,culture and language too
Text books written by Shashi Tharoor and Sanjeev Sanyal will definitely be much more fun for young students both at school as well as in higher education! Please do write our history text books. Thank you!
Yes. Finally I got a chance to correct Mr.Tharoor and Mr.Sanyal. machilipatnam/masulipatam is on the east coast of india in the state of andhra pradesh. The port known for fine muslins. Not on the west coast. Definitely not north of cochin
Good that Shasi Tharoor admits that Indian History has been distorted. Will he explain why it happened after 1947 by Indian National Congress which ruled for nearly 60 years.
Iam enthralled at the forum's enlightening discussion on the history of not only Indians as well as the Brits being blacked out of pre & post independent India?
Kunal Sarkar reckons he’s there having a teatime chat! But has seemed to have read SSanyal. 43:27 Francis Xavier was a Saint! ‘The Patron Saint of Pirates’. Shashi needs to learn that he does not need to play apologetics for Congress etc. He mentioned some players like Bhagat Singh etc focussing on their failures and ignored SC Bose and his impact.
Just found it, Great video 👌. I like Mr Tharoor's idea of turning Victoria memorial in Kolkata to a Colonial history teaching place. I also love the idea that these two historian proposed about re writing the history of Bhaarat based on true fact and changing the school curriculum. Our children needs to know the truth - it's about time! Only then they will be proud of their rich heritage and stop feeling ashamed of their own culture. I would also request all Bangalies to use the name Bhaarat instead of India. We have managed to get Kolkata back from Calcutta, haven't we? 🤗 All the best Namaskar 🙏
M G Gandhi was given credit more than he deserved . The Naval mutiny in 1946 and the Indian soldiers refusal to fire on the naval personnel, unnerved the British. The political class of Congress dissuaded the freedom fighters from going ahead with mutiny and end British raj. It is a shame these same leaders, divided India and Congress party looted the country for over 60 years
Sanjeev Sanyal you made the point. 💐💐💐❤️❤️❤️ Tharoor such a foolish comment ? That's the bomb made other to realise that they can do something by hitting hard.
Delhi perspective of Indian History still did not leave, we suppose. Hidden histories in India are still to come up. Your attempt is a step towards that direction. We wish great success. Thank you.
the doctor mediator is pushing his bias in subtle manner. Nonetheless, here just for Sanjeev. Sanjeev may not be as good with words as Shashi but his knowledge is much better and refreshing
Shivam Goel - let us not compare. I too am a big fan of Sanjeev, and he has done a lot of original, self driven research and digging in many areas. Brilliant guy. But Sashi is an absolute legend. His depth of knowledge is mind boggling. Watch his two debates with Zareer Masani and Anita Anand (on British colonialism). Zareer Masani comes prepared with full research, and Sashi just has his memory to quote from and refute him. And he still ABSOLUTELY DEMOLISHES him. Even in this debate, watch the part where the doctor talks of maraia spreading during the construction of railways - and Sashi comes in with more accurate and exact details and facts. And the fact about morzarella cheese indirectly coming as a result of this. His length, breadth & depth of knowledge - and his memory are mind boggling.
not subtle at all...he seems to be the spokesman of anti BJP front
Sanjiv is way better in words and intellect.
@@rajbhardwaj598 no.shashi is more philosophical sanjeev just facts
@@benefactor4309 what type of books has Shashi written ? Any book for reference ? Sanjeev sanyal is a top notch economist with interest in history. Sanyal has written books with real facts and substance. You name any book of shashi which is different and with facts ?
The anchor is so irritating...he didn't let Sanjeev elucidate his argument at the intro about myths surrounding Aryans in India. Mr Sarkar's interruptions are really annoying!
Shams Puri its not a myth anymore
Yes the anchor is useless he doesn't let sanjeev samyal speak who can present many more facts
absolutely correct. He fails as an anchor with so many interruptions.
Not giving fair opportunity to Sanjeev the anchor is just exposing his motive.
Nikki
Moderator: annoying
Mr. Tharoor: historian with a biased agenda criticizing others who have an equally biased agenda, loves bashing the British to the point of tedium
Mr. Sanyal: real historian/scholar, fascination with and love for the little known historical facts shows through
Only reason why tharoor is able to criticize the British is because they're not a constituency. Otherwise he wouldn't have, just a thorough politician, not a historian. He would never repeat the atrocities of the Mughal period loll
Shame on moderator for making cheap remarks and pushing his political agenda. Don't invite these leeches to such honorable events. Looks like a disgusting person. Pretty sure these are the kind of doctors who bring shame to this noble profession.
tharoor isnt a historian
@@architjain30 shashi should either become a major leader in congress or just leave politics altogether. he's rational until it comes to the past doings of the congress, he's wasting his intellect by always defending his party
Sanjeev Sanyal is so refreshing to listen to when he paints the right picture of ancient India. Shashi Tharoor too, except for his views that have a flavour of his party's ideology
fealdorf
defending or suppressing mullah atrocities before the colonial rule indicates pseudo-liberal/commie ideology which his party also follows when it comes to mullah vote bank
True
Shashi is lenient on British . Rajiv M is more direct . Though even he is not that direct .
Y sashi tharoor never opposed when his own party said ram setu is fictional?
infact shashi relies on facts open mindedly whereas sanjeev seemed to hv a bias against congress.
Sanjeev Sanyal has a great future ahead!
It's up to him how you want to shape it up.
Abhi B He can launch an alternative right wing party in India . There should be other good people like him in the party .
He should join rajiv malhotra
Absolutely!
@@prabhatkumarbehera7473 09
Now he is in pmo as economic adviser and one among the 17 people to design new curriculum and textbook for students by govt of india
Sanjeev Sanyal is a gem and gift to Bharat.
Shashi just proved Sanjeev’s point by calling Bhagat Singh’s act as foolish. Sanjeev is way more tolerant as he is smiling at so many subtle remarks by both but somehow mentioning Congress just triggered them big time!
and he is now the principal economic advisor to the Govt of India.
Yes belittling the revolutionaries and supporting the myth of our Independence as narrated till date in text books, might be due to political allegiance..
It’s really sad that generations have been raised on the kind of history books we have in our school system. Really like the idea about turning Victoria Memorial to a colonial history museum. And Sanjeev Sanyal’s recommendations on the evidence based history of our country that we need current and future generations to learn and know about. Hope to see the light of these🙏
He legit didn't let Sanjeev end the debate lmao. Tbh Shashi Tharoor should join BJP and end his mental block, but if he doesn't then f*ck him, he's for the streets 🙂
Sanjeev Sanyal > Thoorued
At 1:03, If British has to apologize for the atrocities during colonial era, who will apology for the bigger atrocity and butchering Indian heritage for 700 years during Islamic era.
True, Satyajit.. and today also we are suffering from Islamic terrorism
Amazing talk ! very impressed with both Shashi and Sanjeev 's contribution
To the answer of the question about ‘how brits could rule India’, he answered ‘Brits hired people with darker skin but English in mind’. Weren’t Nehru the same? He despised the Dhamric culture or shall I say not nurtured it well. Congress secularized everything for Dharmic faiths but given free hands to Abrahamic faiths. Nehru himself continued/implemented Macaulay system of education
Correct, those jeans are still at work Desi looking, English thinking and treating at rest of Indians like their slaves
You say that of nehru but same applies to shashi, not matter how hard he tries to be Indian to the core. His command of English & accent & and his mannerisms betrays him. He desperately wants to glorify Hinduism but is being checked by his politically correctness. Don't want to step on Muslim toes. Despite my critism of him I would love to see him as leader of Congress.
The first education minister was a Maulana from Mecca who never went to school. That shows how Nehru really didnt care about children.
he wanted scientific thinking n wanted to keep religion out of education. absolutely nothing wrong with that
Brits were able to rule India with the help of upper class landlords, zamindars, and kings who were fighting among themselves and social and class inequality really played a role.. If you look at a list of kingdoms which supported British during various revolts like in 1857, you will be never surprised.. Blaming Nehru for everything is a fashion these days..
Sanyal lambasted congress. The actions/course you take in your present times will have a greater and larger impact at the future.
Shashi is contradictiong his own statement that he personally want Mahabharata, Ramayana in class but not as a Hindu religious text. I mean first question is are they not? yes they are the Hindu texts only and no effort should be made to secularise the text of Ramayana and Mahabharata. Otherwise the teachings in those texts would lose their contextual meaning.
how is he wrong? some schools also have parts of Iliad and Odyssey as part of their course ,yet no one is preaching Hellenic religious beliefs through it. Epics should be celebrated for what they're ..great fiction
Indian ethos is religious. We cant separate religion from society and it is good that way. Except for communalism seeded by Jinnah and responded to by Golwalkar.
Sanjeev Sanyal has clarified this too (please refer his IIT Kharagpur speech video as well) ... they are not just India's epics, but the "Itihasa"s (Sanskrit for History) ... they are ancient texts with history, tradition and myth interwoven together ... the religious layer was added later.
From modern Hindu perspective, yes, they are Hindu religious texts - no doubt, but for an objective history student (as one should be in regular schools, except maybe in purely religious contexts), they are not.
For example, Sanjeev Sanyal has mentioned that Ramayana was first of all, a simple story of a king rescuing his lady from an evil power, then the ethical questions of the times were added on top of it, for e.g. whether the kings are also under the law or not, to answer this the part of Rama relinquishing Sita was added (early versions of Valmiki Ramayana did not have this).
Finally, when monotheistic religions came up, the theistic (religious) part was added with strong flavour, when Rama became Bhagwaan (as in the Tulsidas version of Ramayana). These later enrichments are missing in the early versions of Ramayana as still practised in South East Asia (such as Indonesia where it's extremely popular).
Are Hellenic religious beliefs equal to that of Sanatana Dharma 's? Once you make it secular, the perceived Hindu part will be digested and the left over symbolic secular part will be reinterpreted to meet secular needs. The original message veiled in symbolism will be lost once and for all. Vedas suffered the same fate. (may refer Aurobindo's books). Look what they did to Yog, now Christians have rebranded it as Holy yoga, jesus the yogi so on and so forth, shreeding of the religious part, reinterpreting the asanas meanings to suit Christian needs and a thousand years later they will assert it to be a Christian practice. If Dharmic people sell their cultures in the name of secularism, there will be nothing left in it. We might learn from what happened to Pagans. I would urge to go through Ancient India's books, scriptures, world religious dynamics from ancient times till date. That might give you a leverage position to form your opinion
soulsentinel
Hellenistic religious beliefs are totally wiped out now thus any significance of Illiad and Odyssey reliogiosity is gone.
Sanjeev Sanyal we owe to you the revelation of our past.... Please enlighten us with this glorious light .
Please read his book called "the ocean of Churn "you will get real history of India in those pages 🙏🏻
I feel cheated and misinformed about my own history as a kid ,
I HATE CONGRESS PARTY!
Says something about you too. Sanyal or Sasi Tharoor does not speak from original historical research, just secondary sources, which were available for you to read too. Again, these 2 held very demanding jobs too, so most people cannot complain that they had a busier job!
Try reading more books and get out of victim mindset.
@Amit K .G No one is talking about religion here dude , what's wrong with you.
@Prathmesh Tiwari, sorry there could be original sources but broad facts and their interpretation (discussed here) was very familiar to me. Great if you could specify the point raised which was from original sources.
I asked you to point out which original fact Sanyal stated in the discussion (as you pointed out). As for Sanyal having a different interpretation (from Thapar I gather ?) I do not discount it. I was amused at how many people whine for something not being included in a school history book. On reflection, I believe they are right to complain for not receiving a critical history education; as a consequence being surprised by facets that were not expressly presented in their textbook.
Great discussion! But I beg to differ with Mr. Sashi Tharoor, regarding the revolutionaries. There is dichotomy in his own argument. He says Bhagat Singh's efforts were "futile" and doing "utterly foolish" things. At the same breath, INC or Gandhi's peace freedom movement was not successful over night. It took many years of failures before it got its mass folowing. We know that the INC was amply supported by the Brithsh.
Similarly Nationalist revolutionies like Bhagat singh and friends have knowingly thrown himself at the gallows but the flames they ignited oneday caught the imagination of the youth of the day. They created awareness among the public and brought the issues to public attention when news was suppressed. Their stories and sacrifices lived on, particulary among the future generations and among the Subhash chandra Bose's Indian national army. The attrocities commited by the British against the INA soldiers from Armed forces angered soldiers who sympathised with their patriotic counterparts in the INA.
Subsequently the death sentences have culminated in to rebellion on the British naval forces in Mumbai. According to most modern historians and also as Mr Tharror says the rebellion of the 1946 is the prime mover for the British leaving India. To note, Quit India was in 1942 and there was major movement later apart from this rebellion post world war, that made British to take the decision in a haste.
There is a link between the 1857 India's first war of independence, inspiring India house revolts by Savarkar. Subsequent hardships people faced in the Kaalapani, Andamans islands, Bhagat Singh's execution, Bose's INA struggles and finally revolt of the naval command. Each one of then drew inspiration from previous sacrifices. These are commited people for the cause of nation. They dreamed of the final result of liberation of mother India not individual success, glory, publicity and titles. They are the reason how we get inspired as a nation at the time of need. They become symbols of "never give up attitude" at the time of subjugation and oppression.
Their noble sacrifices of the great revolutionaries who dedicated every thing including their lives at the altar of motherland are inspiration for generations. Even with efforts to erase their names, thier lagacy lives on as "Truth prevails" and we are realising their greatess.
Dr. Vijay Bandikatla true
Thank you for Attentive note made on incidences in a series which led India to be free.
In fact Gandhi's so called ahimsa had shed more bloods & give rise to more violence against the Indians which is contradictory
It was Subhash Chrandra Bose INA that got us freedom not the INC. Mr. Clement Atlee, FMR PM, Britain said in meeting in 1956 with Bengal Governor. INC was waiting for transfer of power to happen on August 15 1947. Real Independence day should be October 21, 1943
Very true.
Anchor Dr is so full of himself. Sanjeev Sanyal is a true gentleman. Mr Tharoor can speak from any side. Unfortunately he is not being used while in Congress to his potential. Wish he could join BJP during Modi regime
Shashi Tharoor and Sanjeev Sanyal so proud of you both for giving so much knowledge about ancient history of India. India is truly an amazing country.
Sashi Tharoor should have allowed Sanjib Sanyal to speak more, SS is a great scholar, but always to get suppressed by ST the politicians.
I guess SS will be a leader in the future... he is cool n absolute on his points... he has got depths... let's see... we will embrace him full heatedly if he wishes....
Shashi Tharoor is all nice and erudite until he hears the G word. The moment Gandi dynasty pops up, he turns into a moron.
In one moment he told, revolutionaries were failures, so Gandhi decided to "shame" British rule by "fasting", and get freedom that way.
In the next moment he said, due to second world war, British economy was in a delicate situation. The Naval Mutiny brought it on its knees. That's the reason they left India.
Well, did British Empire left India because of the Naval Mutiny, or because of Gandhi's "fasting"?
Asat sange narak vaas. That's the case with Shashi.
Prabal Chakravarty very well said.
It's a master and servant situation with Sashi and Ghandi
mostly it's Hitler who is to blame for the end of European colonialism in the 1940's, non-conforming to their laws did help a little though.
Prabal Chakravarty Freedom did not come by fasting. We all know what Clement Attlee said why Britain left India. They were afraid of a Second Mutiny after Indian Navy personals revolted in sympathy with INA commanders.
Sadly the Revolutionaries were not successful, they weren't able to bring any actual change, when was the last revolutionary attack pre independence.
And see how long it took to get independence.
After speaking eloquently and absolutely mesmerizing with amazing newly uncovered historical facts for an hour, Shashi Tharoor at 59 min , does a somersault and starts to speak utter childish rubbish to defend the horrendous acts of his Congress party of distorting and manipulating the Indian history to suit the agenda of one particular family and party. Bhagat Singh and all other revolutionaries failed he says...he doesn't realise what impact the sacrifice of Bhagat Singh and many such individually acting revolutionaries must have had on the suppressed and slavish mindsets of Indians during those dreadful times. These revolutionaries might have lost their lives but the fire that they started in the hearts and minds of people, consumed the queen's empire and crown. That was the actual victory. But I do not expect some one like Tharoor to understand that because when you are a bootlicker/asskisser of an intellectual giant such as Rahul Gandhi, pacified slave mentality is a natural consequence. Oh Tharoor, you are such a waste of a brilliant mind. Pathetic!
As soon as Sanjeev belittled Mughals and said it was the Marathas who were ruling when the British arrived.
The moderator interrupts and ask about Ashoka.
Biased bigots like him try to push an agenda
Excellent, listen to after 56 mins, 1946 is where our first Independence occurred(Navel mutiny with Army/Airforce refused to oppose!!) , after seeing this British realized they can no longer rule, started political dialog. This among others is completely missing in Indian History books. Thanks to the Leftist.
Curiously, the political dialogue had started just before the naval mutiny, in *January* 1946, with the visit to India of a delegation from the British Parliament. However, memory of the mutiny probably influenced the decision to choose an extraordinarily short timetable for _implementing_ Independence in the summer of 1947.
Why Naval mutiny happened? Do we know?
@Rupendra Sharma not sure about the video you are mentioning but I have seen the interview of the BC Dutta, the man who started it.
I have read many Books including RC Majumdar and some from the modern writers having reference of the now disclosed transfer of power documents by the British government. So I have enough knowledge about it. It was all about how Netaji and INA destroyed the loyalty of the Indian soldiers towards British and there was no role of any political dialogue as mentioned by one Gandhian in the comments.
@Rupendra Sharma because this person pastpresented was talking about political dialogue of Congress, hinting Naval mutiny had something to do with it ... So I asked him whether he knows the real reason because for Congress till mid 1945 INA was some misguided people and they changed their stand just because public was completely behind Netaji and INA and Congress would have lost ground if they didn't support... Congress didn't support the mutiny and later removed all the officers associated with it from Indian Navy... They made the propaganda of non-violence and Gandhi brought the freedom... Now as people have started to know the real reason some Congress people are trying to say Congress was behind the mutiny ... That's why I asked him to shoot direct rather Making a half hearted comment
Absolutely amazing discussion. Learned a lot about "Indian History" in this one hour.
The Renaissance is an European one not Indian. We never had a dark age to begin with even though the islamic forces tried their best.
The Islamic forces brought Persian culture, then one of the most advanced in the world. The Brahmins didn't want it, because it undermined their status.
SATIDAHA
MARRYING YOUNG GIRLS TO OLD KULIN TO SAVE THEIR CASTE TREATING PEOPLE AS UNTOUCHABLE WHAT MORE TO CALL IT DARK AGE
sanch Sanchayan, guess you did not study history. Did you read about the Arya Samaj movement or the Brahmo Samaj or the Bengal reneissanace?
@@rakhimukerji7937 caste is because of genetics and ur genetics determine IQ . low caste have low IQ .
@Prathmesh Tiwari No, at its peak, the Islamic world learned everything from _everywhere_
Sanjeev is great. His expanse of knowledge about India and his patriotism dwarfs the other two men. We need more people like Sanjeev to glorify the Indian history and take pride in it.
He's a traitor to India. Do your homework
THANKS MR. SANJEEV SANYAL
FOR YOUR GOOD LECTURE ABOUT
OUR ANCIENT HISTORY AND
CULTURES.
The anchor wasn't kidding initially.. organizer needs to find a better person for the job. He is speaking more than the 2 guests..
😆🤣😂 so true
Iiii
Well said 😂😂. That's how all cardiac surgeons are. Very imposing, & so very full of themselves.
MN
Great facts by Sanjeev Sanyal. Wish Shashi would stop kissing The Dynasty!
It's not about Congress or BJP. It's about the type of government we have developed. They tell us what they want us to know. We should trust our scholars, scientist, researchers and educators rather than these political parties. Politicians always lie, that's the political system we have.
The moderator has no sense of aesthetics. If he wants to cuddle up to Mr Tharoor like an arm candy and interrogate Mr Sanyal, he should know this clown business is not amusing at all.
Kashmiri Apple, try to step in his shoes and then judge
@@arunpaypal you surely like him cuddling. OK
@@ProfRavenSteel I know him personally. So go figure.
@@arunpaypal maybe that's why you love him being arrogant lol
Moderator is trying to push his ulterior motive and not letting Mr Sanjeev to put his esoteric knowledge. Shame on you Mr Moderator.
Esoteric? Do you know the meaning of the word?
Best comment
I am allergic when oxford based Indian elitists ( somes times mistaken as intellectuals) , speak about Indian Civilization . They sound cheap when speaking about the rich sanskrit and indian heritage..
European sense for asian has always been biased and racial ...with the belief that they r superior than asian in every aspect with only diff is that previously the discrimination was openly done and now its subconscious
Yes talking about indian civilization should be limited to RSS people only.
Mr. Sanyal too is an Oxford Alumini sir 🙏
@@prottoychakraborty1124 studying in an university and thinking from a slave mindset are different things .
thats your own low-class mindset then
Kudos to Mr. Sanjeev for his work which encompasses many more facets and periods of our history . More power to you Sanjeev sir 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Wonderful!! This is an what an intellectual discussion looks like. Also, another thing, I see Sanjeev Sanyal I will definately like the video.
I am disappointed and appalled by Hon. MP Mr. Shashi Tharoor's opinion stating revolutionaries and independence activists like Bhagt Singhs and Dhingras were failures and British were too strong for Indians. Indian revolutionaries and independence activists "failed" because Indians either stayed neutral, supported British or fought against revolutionaries and independence activists along side of British. England/America educated Mr. Tharoor, please study 1857 and fate of "princely states" that fought British versus that supported or stayed neutral during 1857 revolt. So Mr. Tharoor:- by same token Gandhiji was not "successful" either !!!!! The British had become very weak after the two world wars and could not maintain colonies and left India on their own hastily !!!!!
Sanjeev’s books are amazing, he is a gem and sea of knowledge,
I want to thank Mr. Tharoor for saying that it is "criminal" for Indian kids to not study Kalidasa (and so one). But a polite query - we have been independent for over 7 decades, most of which has been administered by the Congress, a party to which he belongs and has been in significant positions during multiple times. What has he in particular and governments in general done to improve this situation? Why could they not be included in our curriculum by now (if not all, then some, but we find none)? Why do our children not know of SEA or even Kerala? Shashiji has been at the helm of things for far too long but not sure how much of his knowledge have actually taken ground effect.
P.S.: I know he won't probably read this comment but trying my luck :)
In kerala, the statue of the father of malayalam language could not be installed in his birthplace because of strong opposition from the local Muslim population! Sasi will not talk about it.
Cuttack, Bali Jatra and Kartika Purnima - You know the history, sir..Great narration..
look how when Sanjeev is about debunk the Aryan invasion theory THE MODERATOR wants to him talk about Asoka what a biased person all these north Indians need to get a real history.
but even Mr Sanyal's knowledge in this regard is incomplete ..recent studies have found that there indeed was something similar..but it was less of an invasion and more of an Aryan Migration and it didn't happen instantaneously , it did gradually over decades ,perhaps centuries . The evidence is out there in the open...even if you trace the origin of North Indian Languages..like Hindi,Punjabi,Bengali ,etc..they all find their root in the Eurasian regions (that's why the nomenclature ..Indo-aryan/indo-european languages ) somewhere north of modern Turkey.For instance German and Bengali are more similar to each other ,than Bengali and Tamil is ! Look up this recent article "Genetics Might Be Settling The Aryan Migration Debate"..
that being said..the Indian gene pool is far too mixed up to differentiate now ,due to thousands of years of inter-marriages up until the Gupta period ,when inter caste marriages started becoming a taboo ...Only in isolated tribes of the Northern hills and far flung pockets of Southern India ,one can find significant difference in the genetic makeup .
Aryan Migration is possible but Invasion is mostly accepted as only a fictitious theory.
Invasion necessitates the existence of a large organised army of soldiers..there were no such organised during that time,mostly small bands of tribes..,they were warrior/hunters..they might have raided settlements ..but that would be the extent of it,hardly an invasion .Besides it's scientifically proven ..humans were not inherent to the subcontinent ,african travellers(ancient so called "dravidian" ancestors settled here first ),the other groups came few thousand years later ..so basically all are migrants,probably now extinct neanderthals lived here before that
+soulsentinel Homosapiens were in India even 75000 years ago, before Toba eruption, as per stone tool artifacts discovered in Jwalamukhi. Most likely the ancestors of today's Adivasis or the tribes found in Andamans or Malaysia.
Is there any need to again divide the country on mere geography? How come you are generalising by stating all these north Indians? Shame on us that even after experiencing 1000 years of foreign rule, we are still talk same dividing language.
Bad moderator.
Not just bad he is totally biased.
He is pathetic does not let the guests speak
Fantastic Debate. Very thought provoking. Well presented and well moderated. Thanks to organisers.
Sashi is so thorough with the colonial history. Hats of to him. But when it comes to Cheraman Perumal, a Saivaite king going to meet the prophet, Sashi should do a little more research. This Mosque in Kodungallur, in the name of Cheraman, alleged to have been built in 629 CE, which means the Chera king should have left for Saudi Arabia at least in 628 CE. But then in 628 CE Mohammed was still in Medina and he captures Mecca only in 629 CE. These were early years of Islam and there was no codified religion, worship or Koran. It is unbelievable how such a religion in its early stages would attract a Chera King who was Saiva Saint! We did some digging and it appears it is a story created by the Portuguese in the 16th century, and the first one to record this story is Duarte Barbosa (1480-1521 CE). One story recorded by Diogo De Coutos, goes to the extend of saying that the king Cheraman converted to the St Thomas Christianity. You will be well advised to read the Tamil Book 'Periapuranam', which talks about the ultimate fate of King Cheraman Perumal. However this story needs verification!
The other utterance Sashi does not fail to make, may be to keep his Christian voters happy, is the St Thomas' visit in the 1st century. Sashi with his flare for thorough research would find the truth about that visit actually never happened. Truth has always been very important in India.
Correctly said, I wonder why Mr Tharoor who talks eloquently on colonial faulty history has no qualms in continuing the historical lies perpetuated on hindus and no one questions out load, esp the Thomas myth & the lies have been exposed with the Thomas mount in chennai but still the missionaries and their sepoys keep pedalling their wares.
Thulasi Das one Arab visited India in 9th century. And he wrote there was no mosque and no muslim in India. This cheraman mosque built in 7th century is lie nothing more than that it was propogated by same people who downgraded Indian civilization history and its achievements
Who was the imaginary Arab? More fake news?
The St Thomas connection is older than England itself! It cannot be a myth perpetrated by missionaries. Missionariies came almost 15 centuries later! Not all of history as we know it is false. Some of it is true.
What do you know about St Thomas Christians after all besides questioning the history. As if all the Mahabharata and Ramayana is all true?
Sanjeev Sanyal, being a great grandson of true revolutionary, is very persuasive and lives up to his reputation.
It is an epitome that posts colonial history of India was predominantly written by Muslim influence due to the Congress regime in power, belligerati, hence no wonder we have the mixed and false account of the history of pre-ages, middle-aged and post-colonial.
Emran Caan very true friend
Hindus were not united. One of the reason is that not so many Hindus were not going to temples and listening to religious sermons or kathas.
Even today Hindus go to temples only few times in whole year. Unity comes by listening Katha or religious preaching.There every Hindus from all castes, rich or poor go, then unity will come. If not possible do two weekly family ghar Sabah in your home with all family members discussing our rich religious and cultural history and civilisation. Once unity come to family then it will spread outwards connecting whole country.
This family Sabah is practiced in BAPS organisation which has built 1200 temples creating Guinness book world record.
Kiran Patel , get rid of the caste syetem , then every Hindu will be united ...
We do not need unnecessary rituals to be united 😊
Shashi is such a kiss up to nehru-gandhi and muslims , while Mr. Sanyal’s content is rich and well substantiated! Way to go Mr. Sanyal!!
Kartik Purnima and Balijatra ❤❤❤
This anchor proved my concern by bringing in Demonitisation, in between this discussion , which have
no connection whatsoever and proved himself to be from Bengal
I think sanjiv sanyal is a Bengali too
Don't be too biased, a person can't represent a complete creed or community, I hope you have enough IQ to process this request
@PIKU ROY Yes of cause Sanjeeb is Bengali. He is the grand son of the great freedom fighter Sachindra Nath Sanyal who was a companion of Rash bihari Bose and Guru to Bhagat Singh and Chandrasekhar Azad
All amazing speakers on the panel, including Dr. Sarkar with his amusing mediation and diffusing the debate so efficiently when needed. I would've liked to hear more from the brilliant Mr. Sanyal though.
if this this type of discussion went viral,then surely our bharat will grow in right direction........
Dr shashi tharoor is good man and intellectual man but in Wrong party
Deadly combination of Shashi & Sanjeev! Superb!! Very refreshing to hear our real history!!
More power and success to Sanjeev Sanyal
Fan of Shashi Tharoor but oo man Sanjeev Sanyal your beauty. You are simply brilliant. Certainly we have been cheated on the name of history. It's high time to rewrite the history books. Hope government of India consider it. Please GOI🙏
The anchor is unfair, not allowing Sanjeev to drive home the point.Shashi being a Congi became uncomfortable the moment Sanjeev mentioned how effective the revolutionaries we're but betrayed by villains like Gandhi & Nehru.I hope Modi will certainly bring out the correct history of the wars won as well as the wars lost.
Very interesting presentations Enjoyed it Dr Kunal Sarkar has a good sense of humor. Sashi & Sanjeev Sanyal are very euridite & analytical pleasure to hear. Nathan Sekhar Sydney, Australia.
Sanjeev sanyal sir is ruling the comment section ❤
What a jewel of an episode!! We all are so much in dark about out own history!!! Sanjeev and Shashi are the kind of people we need more in India..
Shashi is not so willing to open up though because of his politicas.
SANJEEV SIR IS A BOON TO THIS NATION....ALWAYS REFRESHING TO HEAR HIS WORDS
If Shashi Tharoor is demanding, expecting an apology for Jaliyanwala bagh , how on earth can he forget what Islamic rulers have done to India? Are the ruins of Hampi, Modhera, Martand sun temple, Konark, etc, etc (30000 odd structures) not shouting out the painful history which Congress is pushing under the rug? How can appeasement be justified for imposing crushing slavery?
Wake up Shashi... Be on the right side of politics.
It is thoroughly disturbing to go through the following realistic articles, which are hosted by the Australian site. Having visited Ellora, Ajanta recently, I happened to read these in a quest to find an answer to this vexing question that haunted my mind "what happened to the super-advanced ancient Indian culture (seen at Ajanta, Ellora, Hoysala, Hampi, etc)? {E.g. if you see 9 yard sarees, checkered shirts, striped dresses, they indicate presence of weaving technology's existance, which with numerous other technologies was existant 2000 yrs ago! In those paintings one sees ornaments, carts, houses, metal utensils, etc. which signify metalurgical, machining, building technologies.}
We must learn from history and teach it to the forthcoming generations, lest we will be doomed in future. हमारी पाठशालाओंमें यह इतिहास जान बुझकर अनदेखा किया गया है . प्रत्येक भारतीय को यह इतिहास अवगत करा देनाही चाहीये.
A. Islam’s Indian slave trade Part I in Islam’s genocidal slavery - (23-02-10) www.australianislamistmonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3312:islams-indian-slave-trade-part-i-in-islams-genocidal-slavery-&catid=170&Itemid=67
B. Islam’s jihad against India 7th-16th century: part J in Islam’s genocidal slavery: - (12-03-10) www.australianislamistmonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3313:islams-jihad-against-india-7th-16th-century-part-j-in-islams-genocidal-slavery&catid=170:slavery&Itemid=59
C. Islam’s jihad against India 16th -21st century: part K in Islam’s genocidal slavery - (03-04-10) www.australianislamistmonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3314:islams-jihad-against-india-16th-21st-century-part-k-in-islams-genocidal-slavery&catid=170:slavery&Itemid=59
Good insight into the forgotten histories of India and the malinterpretation of history we had been exposed in our educational curriculum.This talk inspires us to search for the genuine history from available vestiges surviving the sands of time instead of ingesting the doctored records that shaped our guible minds .
Thank you
The discussion was magnificently conducted by Kunal Sarkar whom I would listen to every opportunity I get, but also the erudite speakers who mesmerized in the way they articulated. I would look forward to another session of the three wise men at the soonest possible opportunity.
The anchor loves the sound of his own voice... 😁
Sanjeev is brilliant, he talks like a writer; Shashi's knowledge is all wasted and wrongly invested in showing his submission and allegiance to the Khangress
Shreekantha Sharma
He has nowhere to go. Afterall he is murder accused and knows very well that only Congress can help him.
Sashi is sick. Jargons don't make you any good.
Sanjeev's knowledge and research is just overwhelming.
But he was not allowed by the moderator (idiot) to put forward his points the way he wished.
I also feel that our history should be rewritten.
Hi ,
Extremely enlightening
Shashi Tharoor, a Malayali speaking with a special British accent in modern day India is living proof of how succesfull the Brits were in colonizing the Indian minds.
v.informative.thk u .
from kerala.
Thank you Sanjeev Sanyal !
The Congress and the dynasty also need to brush up their memory and answer to everyone why those twenty thousand naval soldiers who took part in the Naval Mutiny of 1946 were NOT taken back into service and given the royal boot.Those soldiers who fought for the INA under Netaji were treated similarly and were NOT recognized as Freedom Fighters till as late as 1972.After Bangladesh War of 1971 these soldiers were surviving under penniless condition and pension was started only in 1972 while those who were chamchas of the dynasty enjoyed all the benefits of our hard earned freedom.Some were taking pension and enjoying free air and rail travel without participating in any struggle be it against the British or the ruling party of the time.Should we all forget this collective Amnesia by the Congress,for the Congress,of the Congress?????????????????????
Wow that's awesome tradition of discourse made possible by Kolkata Literary Club. 🙏🏾
Kartik Poornima is also celebrated in Thailand called Loi Krathong where they float these paper boats. So is it related to sailing???
south east asia was also all were Hindu kingdoms.
AlphaQ SecC, Yes. Kartik Poornima is celebrated to show the day wind is favorable for sailing. By seeing the paper boats people will gauge the direction & force of the wind.
high time, we re-write our history books and at least next generation be proud of our history. There are lot of stuff discussed here, we didn't we know till date, bcz it was never discussed abywhere
At @1:04:30, can someone please help me find the article published by a British based Pakistani journalist in The Guardian. I would really appreciate the help as I need it for my research.
Great Sanyal sir....🙏
9:40 truth has been told.
The Congress had their own agenda to push forward and that is how we got not only a father but also a cha-cha (Mama).
We should also have a museum on the political atrocities committed by the First family on the nation.
We would not have had an Aurangazeb Marg but for them later most rightly and deservingly renamed as Abdul Kalam Marg.
I miss Netaji Subash Chandra Bose a lot.
Shameless Sashi is a hardcore slave of Roman Catholic Sonia.
You are right, Krish
@@nirajpandey2853 ua-cam.com/video/CyQjmFtEELk/v-deo.html
I've never been to Kolkata or West Bengal; however, I've recently learned that there is a substantial bias when it comes to views of Bangla people regarding Odia people. Correct me if I'm wrong. If not, I guess this video would help them to understand the rich history and importance of the Odia people in the past. Bharat Mata ki Jai!
Odia people are more patriotic & nationalist than Bengalis.
CPM has ruined the original rich bengali mindset
each state has it's bias of the unknown,but odias and bengalis are sister ethnicities and for all the biases that might or might not exist,they're more similar than different to each other..in food,culture and language too
Bengali's are considered one of the most inclusive and progressive among the multitude of cultures found in India
No, there is seriously no anti-Odia bias among the Bengali people of today.
sanjeev is a bong.However that kind of thing exixts between all adjoining tribes.But bengalis and odias have a lot in common and that is celebrated
We appeal more such discourse in participation and command of such learned personalities of Bharotio Diospora.Exellent naration.
Text books written by Shashi Tharoor and Sanjeev Sanyal will definitely be much more fun for young students both at school as well as in higher education!
Please do write our history text books.
Thank you!
Yes. Finally I got a chance to correct Mr.Tharoor and Mr.Sanyal. machilipatnam/masulipatam is on the east coast of india in the state of andhra pradesh. The port known for fine muslins. Not on the west coast. Definitely not north of cochin
Anchor should learn how to conduct a debate . Let other people speak and dont interrupt them .
Thanks will learn more about Sanjeev Sanyal
Shashi, Sanjeev and Sarkar trio are very very good. Hidden Histories must be a our text books.
Good that Shasi Tharoor admits that Indian History has been distorted. Will he explain why it happened after 1947 by Indian National Congress which ruled for nearly 60 years.
Two young Indian leaders who speak volumes for India’s possibilities.
Great one... many events hidden deliberately
TamilArjun As a person living in north i want to learn about south Indias rich heritage and culture . We need complete over haul in education system .
brilliant discussion very good historic value
Enjoyed the discussion thank you both
Iam enthralled at the forum's enlightening discussion on the history of not only Indians as well as the Brits being blacked out of pre & post independent India?
Kunal Sarkar reckons he’s there having a teatime chat! But has seemed to have read SSanyal.
43:27 Francis Xavier was a Saint! ‘The Patron Saint of Pirates’.
Shashi needs to learn that he does not need to play apologetics for Congress etc. He mentioned some players like Bhagat Singh etc focussing on their failures and ignored SC Bose and his impact.
Are all these facts in both their books. I am asking for academic purposes. Would appreciate an knowledgeable answer.
Just found it, Great video 👌.
I like Mr Tharoor's idea of turning Victoria memorial in Kolkata to a Colonial history teaching place.
I also love the idea that these two historian proposed about re writing the history of Bhaarat based on true fact and changing the school curriculum. Our children needs to know the truth - it's about time! Only then they will be proud of their rich heritage and stop feeling ashamed of their own culture. I would also request all Bangalies to use the name Bhaarat instead of India. We have managed to get Kolkata back from Calcutta, haven't we? 🤗
All the best
Namaskar 🙏
M G Gandhi was given credit more than he deserved . The Naval mutiny in 1946 and the Indian soldiers refusal to fire on the naval personnel, unnerved the British. The political class of Congress dissuaded the freedom fighters from going ahead with mutiny and end British raj. It is a shame these same leaders, divided India and Congress party looted the country for over 60 years
I am watching this because of Sanjib সান্যাল...
Great discussion by three wonderfully enlightened personson the amazing Indian history and economy !
Shashi perhaps does not know that Tippu and his father Hyder Ali themselves betrayed their Maharajas.
Sanjeev Sanyal you made the point. 💐💐💐❤️❤️❤️
Tharoor such a foolish comment ?
That's the bomb made other to realise that they can do something by hitting hard.
We the of India must read books of sanjay sanyal and tharoor to know good sum of history
Delhi perspective of Indian History still did not leave, we suppose. Hidden histories in India are still to come up. Your attempt is a step towards that direction. We wish great success. Thank you.