The Forgotten History of India's Maritime Past | Sanjeev Sanyal |
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- Опубліковано 23 сер 2024
- Sanjeev Sanyal's second talk at JNU , where he helped explore and understand India's Maritime Past, that has been forgotten.
About the speaker:
Sanjeev Sanyal is an Indian economist, bestselling writer, environmentalist, and urban theorist. He was also the Global Strategist & Managing Director at the Deutsche Bank.
He is also the author of the best selling books "The Indian Renaissance: India's Rise after a Thousand Years of Decline (Penguin and World Scientific), "Land of the Seven Rivers: A Brief History of India's Geography", (Penguin, 2012) and "The Incredible History of India's Geography" published by Puffin in 2015.
Subtopic:
0:00
2:07 Forgotten Indian Maritime history
4:15 The coastline of India is constantly changing
6:08 Massive flood around 12000 years ago
7:40 coast line during Harappan civilization
10:54 Trading routes
13:19 Worldwide massive climatic change
15:18 Sudden development of South India
16:34 Shri Lanka having roots in Odisha
21:18 Naga - people of snakes
25:42 change in the orientation of Indian trade
28:11 Significance of Karthik Purnima in Odisha
29:23 The story of Tapoi and motifs on the panels of Konark temple
30:40 Western India trading with Romans
34:23 What were they trading with each other?
36:02 Major problems because of this trade
38:42 Control of Islam and its impact on trade
42:10 Eastern trade at that time
43:48 Pallava king Nandivarman II and Vaikunth Perimal temple
47:42 Rise in Chola empire
49:19 What were the basis or economic structure that allowing this trade to go back and forth?
52:25 Turkish conquest in India
56:27 Change in the religious component of South East Asia in 13th - 14th Century
59:23 Vasco Da Gama came to Calicut
1:00:47 Warrior queen of Abakka
1:03:08 Dutch became Maritime power on Indian Ocean
1:03:56 Martanda Varma stopped Dutch
1:05:37 QnA session
1:05:48 How much the Shaivism shape this Maritime history
1:10:00 Types of ships and ship building techniques
1:13:04 Why there is no book about all this history?
1:14:22 Truth of Ashoka and Kalinga War
1:16:54 How much influence of economic strategies do Indian’s have with the South-East Asians
1:24:14 Maritime contribution of Satvahanas
1:26:36 Mujiris in Kerela
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I am from Mangalore, and I greatly admire Rani Abakka Chowta. 💪🏻🙏🏻
me too. Proud of her. One of their capital was Moodabidri. visited 1000 pillars temple ? Jain Basadi
@@vertex_gaming isthe proof that the people of Bangladesh women in India and Its international relations and reports of divorces r India Today conclave is t is the issue is resolved by a group t is a SERIOUS PROBLEM FOR T THE world is one more time with the fact is a serious problem for you guys have any common people use such A to the extent that THE the world that Mr Imran Khan's photo of my following rr rreader TM of the best regards Atul Kumar and Bangladesh officials of state policy of Pakistan and India Today conclave the best regards for and on behalf to be the target for the purpose is prohibited from using proxy type•√ vvvvv
New generation really need this.
Only North Indian needs this.
@@donjohn8688 whole india need this...
@@donjohn8688 South Indians needs Vatican stories
Though a non-odiya, i grew up in Odisha, and i have clear childhood memory of Bali Jatra. It was one of the great festival which we as kids used to look forward to very eagerly. Our Odiya neighbour aunties and we kids all used to go to nearby river and used to float the boats. Such a nice childhood memories
⁰0l
Lpp/@
South East Asias Hindu archaeology and literature
Is under treat of collapse or decadence. Not because of respective govts and societies but because of non challent attitude of governments in India. Pl concentrate and throw light on those facts of our historical past. Thank you.
The technicality of historical evidence is heavily dependent on language recognition. If Tamil historical usage in the southeast and far east Asia then the Indian government is not interested.
@@rajasingammuthusamy959 I think Tamil state govt can raise these questions to central govt but they are so busy in caste based and language based politics.
And Tamil is not only one of the language which has connection with South East Asia but other northeast and eastern states
@28:15 "Kaarthik Poornima" - Just as this happens in Orissa, Tamils also have similar occasions where
families with women, children and relatives go to sea shores to bid farewell to men who travel on long trips to the South Asian countries.
பனைச் சோழன் Panai Chozhan even in andhra
So what?
Ashoka couldn't conquer kalinga untill then.
How important and powerull it was.To be poundered about
We all are one which ultimately binds us for centuries.
Karthik purnima is celebrated in odisha as "Boita bandana" . It means "wishing good luck to the journey by boat"
Kartik Poornima also celebrated in many Karnataka temples..boats are floated in lakes with the deoties on them..all lighted up beautifully.
You made a striking point of Narasimha..
In Andhra Ahobilam from where Narasimha avatar is thought to be came from, from there across the coastal districts of Andhra Narasimha temples near Vijayawada, Visakhapatnam, Antarvedi(where Godavari merges with Sea) it continue up north as we see in Puri & across Odissa..
Even Velama people in Andhra traces their ancestors with the story that they used to do maritime business came from Bengal & Odissa and settled in port towns of Andhra,
while Pancha Dravidha whom we know Gujarata,Maratha,Karnata,Telinga & Dravida must have migrated from Sarasvati region(as it dries up) via Vindhya.
I think Palhavas migrated south of same reason.
Andhras during Bharata war were also living in North & they were many groups of them & can ride Elephants well fought on both sides.
From all these there is definitely a bit of migration happened all across as Sarasvati dried up.
As they are all dependent on maritime trade mostly now out of business now looking for other rivers that include Mahanadi, Godavari(Tel river), Krishna& looking for fresh shores as well.
Pandya were Old Southern kings, where as Chola the new northern ones.
That doesn't mean Pandya were separate, as they were well connected even during Mahabharata times.
The peoples of ivc were tamils & it is a tamil civilization ... Pallavas originated in manipallavam in present day srilanka..cholas were the one of great tamil dynasties that ruled tamilakam for millinieum & pandyas were the oldest & longest rulers in history..
I like the way you correctly say 'turkish' conquerors, instead of the standard 'muslim conquerors'. Also one of the very few to mention Abakka, queen of Ullal. You correctly mentioned the name of kerala king as Saamudri. never understood why all history books still use the Portugese pronunciation of Zamorin
Best way muslim Turkish warlords it conveys ethno religious identity at same time
South indians need to help us north Indians to correct the ancient Indian glory
Rani Abbakka chowta was a jain and Tulu Queen. She fought with portuguese in 16th century. (Tulu is a costal language of Karnataka and Kerala.)
More accurate would be Muslim Turkish or Muslim Turks. Point made.
Becoz our books are full of shit written by colonial loyalists like Nehru. That's why the British gov't is spending $1,000,000 to keep Mountbatten diary under lock and key. It doesn't want to reveal a lot of details...just imagine what other things they have done and hid away from the public today.....many decades after they left India!
Suggestion: Make your website more user friendly. And have Sanjeev again on different subjects too! Also, Hindol Sengupta, Bibek Debroy are good folks to have!
So much talk about Odisha and Odia.. Loved it.. :)
the first foremost thing is to change is "CHANGE THE TEXT BOOKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
To change the text books you first need to fund proper academic professional research. Without that there is nothing backed by academic rigour to put in said text books.
I think the name of Abakka is Abha and the Akka is the word for elder sister in southern languages ! Interesting
Abakka in kanada is as abbe + Akka. Abbe means Mother, Akka means elder sister.
We odisha people celebrate Bali Yatra every year in Karthik Purnima
What is Bali Yatra?
May the Lord Bless you with a Long and fruitful Life. May you keep spreading the Truth and give Bharatiyas a glimpe of their rich and beautiful Roots and Culture. Thank you
I found it interesting that he just glossed over Tamil maritime history. The Cholas were known to have built massive ships and the Chola Navy was the largest and most powerful of its time.
Great deliberation! This was done in March 2016. Geographically Sri Lanka was part of the Indian on-shore & near-shore economic continuum up until 1540 CE - while the Ram Sethu was still in full service. When you say (34:30mins) iron was an Indian discovery, yes, so long as it is assumed that Lanka was part of the Indian manufacturing fabric.
Very well and logical connection of geography and history ...nice perspective hope these new perspectives also should get included in our TeX books.
Sir..I liked your talk. But if any of your techie can come up with map on right or left side of screen as you speak...that would have been amazing.
Excellent speech, excellent Evolutionary History & excellent correlation with India first civilisation by Mr. Dr. Vasanth shinde.
Kalinga period was the golden period of India history.prove are Easter Ganga dynasty, Bali Yatra, Karthik Purnima, maritime history of odisha.tamilnpeople are recist ,they think they built all temple
ଜୟ କଳିଙ୍ଗ
@Hey sister! How about we re phrase it and think Great Oriyas and Great Tamils both built Great temples? Let’s not fight among ourselves. Both the cultures established our Hindu traditions abroad 🙂 Jai Hind Jai Oriya and Jai Tamil
U should also know that peoples who built the jaganath & konark temple were also chola descendants😂..truth hurts
Thanks for the fantastic documentary .....simply opened our eyes in many ways....not only in marine times.
Wonderful talk on a subject which is generally not covered. Did not know so much about Indian connection with South East Asia. Most of it is new to me. Thanks.
Wow! Good talk . we want this type glorious and true history .we don't want Marxist's history.
Hmm
Yes, we need more and more of such scholars and historians to demystify and decluttter Indian history from all the havoc and mess that the marxists, pseudo-seculariats, congressmen, urban-naxals and the khan market gang have perpetrated. 👍👍👍👍👍🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Yes, because somehow Karl Marx, a 19th-century philosopher/political theorist, had something to do with how Indians today don't know their history. Sanjeev Sanyal had access to all the same sources and stuff that everyone else in India has/had access to all these years. The fact that no one has looked into it shows how apathetic everyone is to history, not that some cabal tried to hide Indic history for some supposed political benefit.
@@tstcikhthyss The Marxists, Pseudo Secularists, Congressmen, Urban Naxals, and the Khan Market gang foisted completely concocted stories as true history in India. Whether we call them a Cabal or Panch-Makkaar is all the same.
@@KAR5759 Well, the fanatical right wing is currently involved in passing off myths such as the _pushpaka vimana_ as evidence of prehistoric aeroplanes and the "existence" of Ganesha as evidence of prehistoric plastic surgery, which is equally ignorant and dishonest. The point is not about whether a certain political dispensation is pushing fiction as fact, but whether people care enough to learn the truth. That latter part hasn't changed; not then, and not now.
Excellent but slides would have made this superb.
Good talk , but no mention of king Kulasekara (800ad) of Muziris whose lineage ruled Kerala's great maritime tradition with great ship building capability , trade and culture . Since king Kulasekara became a Vaishnava saint ' there is not much information of his "purnashram" ie his kingly conquests and wealth , only his hymns Mukunda Mala and Perumal Thirumurai are talked about till date.
I wish the Narayan Murty foundation invested in an Indic-Wiki instead of just the misinterpreted and misattributed Murti Library of Indian Classics. Then stories like the one you mentioned could be rightfully shared with all with all the evidence.
did he bowl good yorkers?
@@krissharma5621 very well said. what else can we expect from a moron like Rohan Murty - what a waste of money.
There was also trade between yavanas (Romans and Greeks) and Tamils. Karikal Chozhan married a Greek princes. Someone wrote a novel on it (Yavana Rani). The Chozhas imported horses and exported pearls. They had a strange way to dive for pearls. They dived in with a bucket like hood that retained air while they went down. There is a town named Arikka Medu where Roman coins were discovered.
Tamil is a language not an ethnicity. Tamil language is from Lanka so how can Cholas be Tamils when they have no identity and are from the subcontinent?
Yavana is also Burmese
@@Eelamtruth stfu
@@Eelamtruth நன்றி.. நீங்கள் மிகப்பெரிய அறிவாற்றல் பெற்றவர்..
@@user-tk3lk5db6q Nandri
Wonderful talk, many facts disclosed which are not generally known. Thanks Sanjeev
All of Indian epics were written or reconstructed...I think Maurya empire is over emphasized and Gupta empire is clearly ignored for having great impact on Hindu vs a vs Buddhist
*MIND=BLOWN*
Unbelievably account of in depth profound knowledge with memory by our honorable Sanjeev Sanyal Sir.
Very informative , Thank you Sangam Talks for organising such lectures.
My only request is that when the orator gives information on locations in the world, pls show them on the map in the video as well, that helps a lot!
would have been better if slides with map were used in initial sections
Only if you had a map with dotted lines for sea routes and migration patterns for the various timelines
The legacy of cholas & pallavas in south east asia is impeccable...
Thanku Sanjeev for such and amazing contribution to discovering our great history
I remember visiting Fazilka in Punjab which was a river port on Satluj. It used to export cotton
Dear Sangam Talks “I want to donate funds to you from a Bangalorean In usa “
Dhanyavad 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
orissa balu has done a bigger research or maritime history of Tamil people
Yes, Orissa Balu have depth knowledge about maritime.
Kalinga had a major influence in the maritime trade, At one time Myanmar, the Indonesian archipelago, and the Malay Peninsula were also called by the name of Kling(Kalinga).
Reference-Suvarnadvipa: Ancient Indian Colonies In The Far East (2 Vols.), Book by R. C. Majumdar.
Very passionate and comprehensive talk.In coastal Andhra many coastal port towns have names such as Bhimunipatnam, Visakhapatnam, Machilipatnam, Nizampatnam, Krishnapatnam etc.Out of this visain a and Krishna patnam are major sea ports now. Kakatiya kingdoms (present day ANDHRA Pradesh ) having seaports like nizampatnam, Many Roman coins were found in these port towns, implying sea trade with Romans
Roman coins also discovered in Odisha and West Bengal
Vishakhapatnam district was also part of Odisha, lost to Vijaynagar
one more cultural memory hidden that lanka is related to oriya/chattisgargh. people in chitrakoot/janasthana surpanakha, khara, dushana, mareecha are related to ravana in lanka.
Odia the pioneer of eastern coast Trade. Pretty prominent even as we have heard through oral history, all neighboring states had their eyes on Kalinga. Many people get confused with Andhra but, I won't comment on the demography, but really the Kalinga Empire was till down to Godavari. Even the capital of Kalinga was in present day Andhra.
On Kartheeka poornima ( full moon day) day even in Coastal Andhra people take bath in sea and offer pooja
No much info about chalukya, rashtrakuta, vijayanagara please provide us more light on these dynasties as well🙏
Thanks Sanjeev ji so much information in your talk. I was transported into those times.
Dada apka knowledge aur Itihas ko samjhane ka tarika bahut he sundar hay... kaas koi aisa he school mein history teacher mil jata... magar sirf ek he request hay aap jo bol rahe ho agar piche projector mein map ke sath ho jaye to ye pura picture matlab ASLI ITIHAS dimaag mein chap jayega..
I always thought my maiden name'Tripp' was English but I see that it is a very popular first name in Hindi. Could it be that people in India took up residence in England a very long time ago. The name first showed-up in 1046 as someone seated in the southeast of England. My mom made me believe that true English were very tall, blond and blue-eyed but then my dad was the typical dark, handsome leading Hollywood man type and it isn't too far off from looking to have Indian roots. It all fascinates me that we are all most likely related.
Great to listen to Sanjeev Santal
Read book Being Different by Rajiv Malhtora, it will give you a great understanding about our amazing civilization
Hari R 😂 😂 👍 👍 👍 .
I agree.. fantastic book. Gives insight into why is it necessary for we indian folks to protect our culture, identity, language and everything else that is encompassed within the fold of Hinduism
We imported lapis lazuli from Afghanistan. its Even possible that we traded with nearest outpost which again traded with other one. Certainly in order to ve balance of trade we imported metals scarce in harappan valley civilization eg copper, tin and ornamental stones from central Asia n middle east.
Afghanistan used to be part of Bharat at one point, prior to Mughal conquests. Queen Gandhari (of Mahabharat) was from Gandhara desham (modern day Kandahar). Following that time point when it changed hands, we later began importing minerals from Afghanistan. This is a several hundred to thousand year period of history in which this succession of power and demographics occurred.
Copper inveted in river bed Thamiraparani river.
Today Adani. .captured. the place..lotus mostly south INDIA. ..temple
Carved Thuvaraka.to Nagapatanam..
Oretes was the Roman name of the Odiyas, Paloura, Palibothra, Dosarene, Ampheterion are some Roman ports on the Odisha coast.
thankz for posting.
The chalukya, rashtrakuta and karnataka empire(vijayanagara) always had title like lord poorva paschima samudra which shows they were dominating indian costal belt which was not covered
I am literally typing on Karthigai pournami which is Karthika poornima in Tamil. Such a coincidence. Also today along the coastal areas this same is being celebrated In Tamil Nadu. Although in a small scale, I presume.
To be noted: This month( 15th November to 15th December ) in Tamil calendar is called 'Karthigai'.
Eye opening stuff. 👏🇮🇳
Marathas has rejuvenated the Bharat navy in true sense when crossing sea was curse for many years. They defeated severely Portuguese and british.
Excellent
To add another point not sure relevant even in Trirumala legend says first and old worshiping god on hill is Narashimha not Venkateswara or Balaji
Thank you for the fast upload!
Why there is no mention of Gupta dynasty when India was infact most prosperous when it was called Golden bird and ppls like Aryabhatta,Kalidas and vatsayayayan was a here?????
It's maritime history only- Aryabhatta or Kalidasa didn't sail
Because if you understood the actual lecture, you'd realise that unpardh North Indian centric bias is irrelevant here.
@@yogeshroy9913 Gupta kingdom followed kanishka kingdom when there was very strong maritime trade speciality with Greek , see the Satwahana kingdom of present day Andhra and it’s trade.
Paanini’s grammar spread to entire Europe....
Aryabhatt Numbers travelled to Arab and from there to Europe...
Gupta kingdom earned all gold in trade with other part of world in exchange with Indian Goods.
Indian traders of that time used port to port travels ... like kotayam to Goa to Karachi to Oman to Jeddah to Yamen to ... Egypt
There is somewhat about north but south is almost not even touched
Thank you for posting these talks.
Bali Yatra is one of the biggest festivals in Odisha.
Such stories should be made a part of school syllabus
Sanjeev ❤️
Thamara is south indian name its pink lotus..red pink lotus senthamarai..
White lotus..Venthamarai
Lilly called. Allui
slides please!...pictures .on geography would say the story better
Wonderful talk.
The Sumerian legend of Sindbad the sailor refers to a maritime contact with India and Sumeria.
Allah who haq nahi bola karte
Sarcastic haq
The marakars of calicut also fought Portuguese for 100 years. Indian naval has some establishment named after them
We will find many answers to our human heritage from India.
Yes, we need to do it.❤️ from 🇮🇳
nagapattinam is much older it was a major hub for greeks & romans..
The goddess Manasa devi is still worshipped in West Bengal...and the story you are talking about is"Behula Lakhindar story"...and one more this thousands of years ago Odia language did not exist all Bengal and present Odissa talks in Bengali...If I am wrong please make me correct
Odia language is much much older than bangla language. That is one of the reasons it has been classified as one of classical languages.
Odia language is classical not Bangla..if Bangla culture is that rich where is archeological evidence?
Even Assamese is older than Bangla.
Meghbahana Kharavela was the King of Samatata not Odisha. Assamese, Maithili, Nepal Bhashas Ranjana script, Siddham script and the Chinese Phags Pa script during Khublai Khan's Yuan dynasty is derived from Bangla script. It's a shame that Bengali is not considered a classical language. Maybe, because the literature is stolen .. Kalinga was under the Bengali Kings when Asoka attacked.
The Bengali Language is not older than Odia. Odia has much older literatures. That is why Govt of India recognizes Odia as a Classical language. Odia is the only north Indian Language to be declared Classic Language.
Odia Language- Classical.
Odissi Dance- Classical.
Odissi Song- is also Classical.
Odia Culture revolve around Lord Jagganatha.
Bali jayra is really fascinating
I saw an English translation of Portuguese Chronicles on their Trading with Hampi (in Karnataka) of Vijaynagar Empire, a vast Empire in 600 AD who were defeated by 4 Muslim kings jointly, otherwise they fight with each other. Not only Arab but European traders used to trade with Hampi! Chronicles are still displayed in Mombasa Fort Museum! It adds to martime history of our predecessors.
Crazy you just learned this now......
That's 1600😂
There is significant evidence showing Indians journeyed to Central America and reached into South America as you know Maya is a word of Indian origin
As India has so many rivers like Sapt Sindhu, Ganga, Yamuna, even Bramhaputra must be flowing from ancient times. But no archeological evidences found or came to light. From the Harappan/ Sindhu civilisation it can be noted that it depended on river system. Then there should be settlements in Bramhaputra path too. Could it be the reason that in extensive floods that Bramhaputra has all these archeological findings washed away or not exist?
Shengai...is Tamil name
Red fruit...or golden colour fruit or metal
Or cloth..shen cloth is red...putha called
Shengai..Tamil
Shengal..is Brick..red colour.
Shengamalam is
Kamal...loutus
Red lotus..shenthur..
Centhuri...hotel madras..
Bindi...lall
Shen means riped
Ma..means
So there is chap aside sanjeev whos been on the phone so long. Really? Dude. Its so fascinating to hear this guy and u r just. Anyways, great session as always, this guy is a giant
Wootz steel has orgins in srilanka
In tamilnadu...
How make the knowledge reach masses?!
+Harish Kiran Buy his books. Support authors like him.
Excellent question and inquisition. I also am wondering on the same one. It sometimes does bother me. The best solution I came up with was to forst get a good status and posotion studying and working in the same framework as existing and then destroying it publically on Social Media (news etc) , also by conducting seminars in schools and other institutions.
But for now just sharing these videos and books of these authors and verbally explaining these to as many people as I can seems to be the way
You guys are doing great job !
Very interesting. And that's why it's bad he didn't use any presentation material like sheets/slides.
Sangam talks didn't have enough budget then I guess :p
I would like you provide some info.. the durga worshipping in odisha, bangla and chattisgad and other parts of north india was started by chalukya's commanders whose established sena dynasty,karnatak empire of mithila and also by gangas of cuttack who traced there origin from today's mysore the talakadu ganga
Eastern Ganga dynasty is a native Odia dynasty
Wonder if Amish read his books for the Shiva trilogy.....
They are great friends beautiful lady. Both have written books on Suheldev Pasi, the king who defeated Turks. Amish Tripathi ji himself is director of Indian cultural center in Britain as a diplomat.
Exactly! I was thinking the same!
excellent work, request : avoid using word "myth"
Abbhishek Misra Excellent advice I suppose. Besides we must learn rather relearn Sanskrit and vedic texts to develop both spritually and scientifically. What say?
Yes "Myth" ideas of Indian history propagated by Foreign scholars and picked up and popularized by Devdutt Pattanaik.
You were right about the Chinese ships, the predecessors to the junks. The largest ship was 480 feet with nine sails.
As per Garuda purana, a celestial bull Vrishabharaja accompanies the soul and helps it cross in the vaitarana river of hell
Fascinated.
1:19:00 So that means that Peaky Blinders is essentially a story about gangsters of Indian descent.😅
Kaudinya Brahmin is ancestor for vishnukundina dynasty in Telugu lands
India's Maritime History
Pls make video in hindi
At 1:14:52 about Ashoka, I would recommend the first volume ( Our Oriental Heritage) of the 11-Volume set of The Story of Civilization by Will Durant On how Ashoka became a Buddhist. I preferred that version of the story.
Will Durant is not indian
Jai Shri Ram 🙏
The World's (Europen, Arabian, American) books hve messed the world's Education System.
Indians, pls REWRITE ALL books !!
God bless Bharat..
some images need to be shown
Aboriginal Australia has 10% indian DNA..it matches mostly with Kerala people.
Goes back to 4000 years
That means south Indians used to Sail south east from Kerala around 2000 bce
South Indians sailed from America to Africa to Australia atleast they had knowledge about these things..
The crucible wootz steel damascus steel the greatest invention of tamils to the world..
The talk didn't entirely cover the involvement of eastern indian merchants. There are oral tales in bengal also.... And it's important bcz british have made these port important after Portuguese control the kalikat region. I was expecting more about bengal maritime history.