I had my first negotiation with a client last week. I tried to get him to say his budget first, which didn't work out that well. So I named my price knowing that I wanted this project so much. I kinda negotiated the price down on my own, because my alternative was having no client at all. After all, it worked out and he even offered me a little higher price, which tells me that I undervalued my work a bit :) still a good experience to learn from...
"whoever talks first after saying a price usually loses" also, you have to be firm with your quote. You say it and wait for as long as the awkward silence takes as all the pressure is on them, not you
Thanks Ran, i am a ux ui designer on upwork and i have been doing this mistakes continiously more then 4 years. Today my eyes opend. From now i am going to follow this mathod. ❤
Stand in front of the mirror and repeat the following words "I am afraid you may not be able to afford my service" enough times until you start laughing like dr.Evil.
Thanks Ran for breaking these concepts down to their most basic parts. I think we sometimes use these concepts intuitively, but I never heard it articulated so well. Loving the new content.
Summary: 1. BATNA - what is going to happen if no deal? What will you or your client get if the deal falls through? Make sure you know what it is when going in for leverage. Improve your BATNA and explain to your client that their BATNA is not that great by asking them questions about the project that only an expert would ask. 2. Explain why you deserve more money by objectively explaining the average price point for your work and start from there.
When I started out I was fortunate to deal with a lot of asshole clients. Because that's how I learned to touch their weak spots. One thing I learned is to never give discounts. Either full price of for free. No red numbers or percentages. All of them wanted discounts, huge discounts of course. I always asked them: "how much does a pallet of you product cost?" Let's say their answer is: "500 euros." "Ok, my design costs 500 bucks and you want me to sell it for 250? What about selling me your pallet for 250?" Their answer is mostly "well, that pallet costs me 400 to produce/ship/get from wholesale". Then I ask them: "so why do you want me to do the same thing for you? That's unrealistic and pretty awkward, don't you think!?" Then they start to raise their voice, stutter, have a conflict with themselves. Basically they have two answers, either they continue do downplay my value, or they soften up and they don't want to disrespect me. Either way I win. Why? Because if they don't respect me - I simply refuse their shitty budget. But if they realise that their tactic doesn't work - they accept my price. But beware, even then they'll still ask for a discount based on future projects they plan to do with you. That's a trap of course and the best answer is: "I'm really happy that you plan future projects with me, let's start our colab now and based on the ammount of work I'll certainly consider doing one of those projects for free." Why that? Because if they lie about future projects - you still get full compensation for the first one. If they realy bring you work regularly, there will always be a project that is easy for you and doesn't take much time. That's the project that you give them for free. But never a discount. I agree with Ran that you don't have to accept any work, even if you are broke AF. I'ts better to wash dishes in a restaurant for one week than working your ass off for a week without proper compensation. Why? Because once you start doing work continuously for cheap, you can forget to charge that same client double for the same work. As soon as you start saying "my rates went up" your client will be looking for a new victim that just started working. Better no clients than vampire clients.
I relate to what you say. Discount works to attract people who will only stay till you start increasing your price. If you want to learn or have an experience of working with someone and it comes from within, do it for free, don't expect anything. The thing is, although there would be few people who would take advantage, but most of them would still pay you something as a thank you. I did 3D renders for a random amazon seller for product listing because i really liked his mugs and wanted to buy them as soon as I get enough money to spare on them. I didn't expect anything in return. I showed that seller those mugs and he gave me money to buy those mugs, even offered me a job to render more of his products (unfortunately my rate was higher than what he could afford so I ended up not doing it but I'm still in touch with him and we both help each other for stuff) Whenever I tried to give discount to people it almost always never worked in my favor. About the "you'll get more work from us regularly" thing you said, i couldn't agree more. I had this client who needed urgent renderings with short deadline and I charged him a little more accordingly. He was all like "your rate is too high, i can't do more than X amount of money. I have future projects, I'll definitely hire you if it goes well." I unfortunately needed money so I caved in and started working. But then he started asking so many revisions that I finally said "I can't more of the revisions, it is too much" and then he added $50 more to the project so that I can render the final images. And guess what, he didn't ever reach out to me for future projects OR allowed me to use the work for my portfolio. So, learn to be logical yet empathic while closing sales and only do projects for free from your heart or if you see any value from it that you can use later (one of the values is, working directly for businesses is much more of an impact for portfolio vs. working through an agency who won't tell you the name of the business you're working for).
Hi,I am Nihal. Just a beginner.And I have question that I don’t know how much it values.It will be helpful if you answer me😊. “As a very beginner the chance of clients approaching us for project have a very rare chance as you know.”So what I need is something like : *How to approach some business or companies and make educate them to make a website *Some tips to take them in hand and get the project *Or any other tips to get project as a very beginner *And to increase our value and get more works in future. I don’t know is the question have any problem.Please forgive in any case. Hope your replay and your videos are awesome ✨ Love you dude.♥️
Thanks Flux for this one, programming skills are not enough you need other skills to like negotiation and persuasion skills in order to make it in this field.
How do you deal with raising prices during this pandemic? A client for whom I do a cyclical job has come back. When I started doing it 1 year ago, I was freshly out of college and charged something that nowadays I dont feel is worth my time. (I already said yes, its a friend of my family but I think I shouldve taken more time to think about it)
Hi Ran, I am thinking of purchasing your 10k process course but I wanted to ask you. How soon can someone apply what is taught in the course if they are beginner? Can you still charge 10k if you are starting out? Thanks!
Of course you won't be able to charge 10k immediately probably never, if it was like that why would he price it such low and create competition for himself and his financial security?
compared to a different explainer video about the book "Getting to yes", your explanation is not that helping very much. Of course the BATNA principle is well explained.
I had my first negotiation with a client last week. I tried to get him to say his budget first, which didn't work out that well. So I named my price knowing that I wanted this project so much. I kinda negotiated the price down on my own, because my alternative was having no client at all. After all, it worked out and he even offered me a little higher price, which tells me that I undervalued my work a bit :) still a good experience to learn from...
"whoever talks first after saying a price usually loses" also, you have to be firm with your quote. You say it and wait for as long as the awkward silence takes as all the pressure is on them, not you
Your first experience, i bet it's great now
Thanks Ran, i am a ux ui designer on upwork and i have been doing this mistakes continiously more then 4 years. Today my eyes opend. From now i am going to follow this mathod. ❤
Glad that it was helpful!
Very helpful with you cud shed more light on the objective criteria
Stand in front of the mirror and repeat the following words "I am afraid you may not be able to afford my service" enough times until you start laughing like dr.Evil.
I have said no to clients a lot of times, and it is funny how saying no makes them more attentive like "why, what happened?"
Thanks Ran for breaking these concepts down to their most basic parts. I think we sometimes use these concepts intuitively, but I never heard it articulated so well. Loving the new content.
Summary:
1. BATNA - what is going to happen if no deal? What will you or your client get if the deal falls through? Make sure you know what it is when going in for leverage. Improve your BATNA and explain to your client that their BATNA is not that great by asking them questions about the project that only an expert would ask.
2. Explain why you deserve more money by objectively explaining the average price point for your work and start from there.
thanks, I was looking for this
Thanks, a lot of bla bla bla
Ran You're Such A Great Mentor ❤❤❤
BATNA - Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement
this was really interesting!
When I started out I was fortunate to deal with a lot of asshole clients. Because that's how I learned to touch their weak spots.
One thing I learned is to never give discounts. Either full price of for free. No red numbers or percentages.
All of them wanted discounts, huge discounts of course. I always asked them:
"how much does a pallet of you product cost?"
Let's say their answer is: "500 euros."
"Ok, my design costs 500 bucks and you want me to sell it for 250? What about selling me your pallet for 250?"
Their answer is mostly "well, that pallet costs me 400 to produce/ship/get from wholesale".
Then I ask them: "so why do you want me to do the same thing for you? That's unrealistic and pretty awkward, don't you think!?"
Then they start to raise their voice, stutter, have a conflict with themselves. Basically they have two answers, either they continue do downplay my value, or they soften up and they don't want to disrespect me.
Either way I win. Why? Because if they don't respect me - I simply refuse their shitty budget. But if they realise that their tactic doesn't work - they accept my price.
But beware, even then they'll still ask for a discount based on future projects they plan to do with you. That's a trap of course and the best answer is:
"I'm really happy that you plan future projects with me, let's start our colab now and based on the ammount of work I'll certainly consider doing one of those projects for free."
Why that? Because if they lie about future projects - you still get full compensation for the first one. If they realy bring you work regularly, there will always be a project that is easy for you and doesn't take much time. That's the project that you give them for free. But never a discount.
I agree with Ran that you don't have to accept any work, even if you are broke AF. I'ts better to wash dishes in a restaurant for one week than working your ass off for a week without proper compensation. Why? Because once you start doing work continuously for cheap, you can forget to charge that same client double for the same work. As soon as you start saying "my rates went up" your client will be looking for a new victim that just started working. Better no clients than vampire clients.
I love that
I relate to what you say.
Discount works to attract people who will only stay till you start increasing your price.
If you want to learn or have an experience of working with someone and it comes from within, do it for free, don't expect anything. The thing is, although there would be few people who would take advantage, but most of them would still pay you something as a thank you. I did 3D renders for a random amazon seller for product listing because i really liked his mugs and wanted to buy them as soon as I get enough money to spare on them. I didn't expect anything in return. I showed that seller those mugs and he gave me money to buy those mugs, even offered me a job to render more of his products (unfortunately my rate was higher than what he could afford so I ended up not doing it but I'm still in touch with him and we both help each other for stuff)
Whenever I tried to give discount to people it almost always never worked in my favor.
About the "you'll get more work from us regularly" thing you said, i couldn't agree more. I had this client who needed urgent renderings with short deadline and I charged him a little more accordingly. He was all like "your rate is too high, i can't do more than X amount of money. I have future projects, I'll definitely hire you if it goes well." I unfortunately needed money so I caved in and started working. But then he started asking so many revisions that I finally said "I can't more of the revisions, it is too much" and then he added $50 more to the project so that I can render the final images. And guess what, he didn't ever reach out to me for future projects OR allowed me to use the work for my portfolio.
So, learn to be logical yet empathic while closing sales and only do projects for free from your heart or if you see any value from it that you can use later (one of the values is, working directly for businesses is much more of an impact for portfolio vs. working through an agency who won't tell you the name of the business you're working for).
Thanks for this
Love this Ran, great tips - keep this getting started content coming!
I agree!
Isn't BATNA the same as the "opportunity cost"
Hi,I am Nihal.
Just a beginner.And I have question that I don’t know how much it values.It will be helpful if you answer me😊.
“As a very beginner the chance of clients approaching us for project have a very rare chance as you know.”So what I need is something like :
*How to approach some business or companies and make educate them to make a website
*Some tips to take them in hand and get the project
*Or any other tips to get project as a very beginner
*And to increase our value and get more works in future.
I don’t know is the question have any problem.Please forgive in any case.
Hope your replay and your videos are awesome ✨
Love you dude.♥️
Thanks Flux for this one, programming skills are not enough you need other skills to like negotiation and persuasion skills in order to make it in this field.
Watched it 2 times! Thanks Ran!
Just in time, thanks!
Exactly on time when I watch your video coz I’m having a second thought on how much should I charge for my work.
A really great video indeed
I am a web developer and i found this video really helpful
How do you deal with raising prices during this pandemic? A client for whom I do a cyclical job has come back. When I started doing it 1 year ago, I was freshly out of college and charged something that nowadays I dont feel is worth my time. (I already said yes, its a friend of my family but I think I shouldve taken more time to think about it)
Nice topic
what is that background material? pretty sick
Something I needed
Top tips, subscribed!
Hi Ran, I am thinking of purchasing your 10k process course but I wanted to ask you. How soon can someone apply what is taught in the course if they are beginner? Can you still charge 10k if you are starting out? Thanks!
Of course you won't be able to charge 10k immediately probably never, if it was like that why would he price it such low and create competition for himself and his financial security?
@@TDLRest Actually you can, yeah it would take time to find clients who pay that much but in the long run it will benefit.
So usefull thank you
10K$ PROJECT IN HOW MUCH TIME?
compared to a different explainer video about the book "Getting to yes", your explanation is not that helping very much. Of course the BATNA principle is well explained.
bro How much you will charge for I want to talk with you..? Please, Bro, give Answer.....?👏👏👏👏👏
i am big friend your
@@galalistationery9434 reach him out through email at flux academy website
200 dollar?😮
This Videos did not teach me anything at all.