To check if the governor is actually working or not, disconnect the belt, run the engine at a selected air pressure, then manually pull the governor’s metering rod up and down to see if it changes the engines RPM. If the engine slows down as you push the metering rod down, then it is in fact restricting the flow of air.
Designing such governors was part of one of the most difficult classes I had in my studies as a mechanical engineer. You can continue to tweak the response through trial and error but to get a really good response takes a lot of math at a pretty high level.
Thanks for the video because i have just built one of your designs for a horizontal steam engine i made it a 20 mm bore x 20 mm stroke . I have also just bought the same governor as you have fitted to your model so i now know i am not going to be wasting my time in retro fitting it to my engine .Great minds must think alike .
I have been watching your tips videos from #1 to this video in the last few months, have to say the playlist of 1-100, and 101-200 and so on up to 400 is great, because after that I couldn't find more playlists, after 400 you have to type in the tips number and sometimes it doesn't come up. I don't want to miss any, you always have great videos with top notch content and Tubalcain humor.
I've done Electronics most of my life, your Mechanical work shows me what I might have missed. The job I least liked was Janitor work, but in Electronic servicing most of what I did was cleaning stuff. But I enjoyed it.
Glad you went through the trouble, quite enjoyable presentation. Hard to believe there is a large enough market to manufacture those governors. Thanks.
It certainly sounded like the governor prevented the engine from overspeeding under no-load conditions when you cranked up the pressure. My bet is that the governor is working like a charm!
Nothing better than a couple cups of good coffee in the morning.. it helps with the tangents which are not only entertaining and more informative than I think you give credit to... I am glad to see you got your governor up and running, it looks good.. Keep the videos coming.
Mr. Peterson, Those locktite O-ring kits are great. I have used them for years. The 404 locktite (super glue) used on a good square clean o-ring is extreamly capable of maintaining a fail free joint within normal operating pressures of a hydraulic systems.
thank you for sharing, i love watching that governor doing its job. i think changing the governor spring to a lighter spring would be interesting. thanks again
From a fellow ME, you are right on the money with the engine needing more pressure. The governor is running beautifully during this demonstration. During the first run, the engine was running "on governor" only when unloaded. During the 15-18 psi run, there was much more torque available, but the engine was probably running near the high end of its torque curve. To really work that governor you would need a lower RPM setting, which could easily be accomplished by a larger pulley at the governor. I would really enjoy seeing a prony brake on this engine with the governor at different speed settings! Another improvement would be to bore out the output orifice on the governor, creating less pressure loss in your system, and increasing the cylinder pressure during higher speed running. I would first check to make sure your globe valve does not use that orifice as a sealing face, as you may introduce leakage across the valve. Best of luck with your future projects!
Thanks Mr. Pete. That was most interesting. I'm glad you found a sweet spot for the setup. I didn't know that they controlled under a load. Thank you for mentioning your brother I'm glad to hear his mind is still sharp and you guys can talk about projects together. Andy
Pete, the purpose of a governor, as you stated in the previous video, is to maintain a constant speed over a varying load. Having said that, a better test would be to add a generator with sufficient “variable” loading and monitor the speed of the engine. Your finger was creating an overloading of the engine and although the valve opened to supply more energy, a constant speed could not be maintained. In an AC voltage generator maintaining a constant frequency is a must. Love your videos and wish I would have had you as a shop teacher. Oh, I think that wouldn’t have been possible. I am either older than you or very close to it. LOL!!
What a nice soldering job! If I'd tried to do that it'd have looked like a complete mess. I love how you document the *decision-making process* in these videos. That's the hardest thing to communicate, and the most important - it's what I'm constantly trying to get across to my FIRST robotics students.
G’day Mr Pete you know that ball safety valve has given that little engine a lovely look now it really sets it off and works well especially for the price of it. Thank you for showing it and the running of it regards John Tasmania Australia 🇦🇺
Hi Mr. Pete. I have recently gained interest in the mechanism of a governor and was glad to understand the tips to installation. I currently do not own a workspace for such mechanism and college never offered a physical and tangible demonstration of feedback system, so until now I have had to learn through imagination as if practicing keyboard on a sheet of paper with dark lines. I, again, am glad to have encountered your video and truly appreciate the work that you have done. Sincerely, Quincy.
Anybody in the free world knows how spring belts work? Comon, I rebuild machine tools for a living and have never seen one... Thank goodness I watch your videos. Brilliant
Mr Pete after I saw this Vedio I did order two of these governors from Banggood .very impressed with the detail and workmanship,..I like your vedios very much
Your finger makes a nice friction brake. Thank you for investing the time to explore this installation, and for going forward to discover the 18 PSI point. Nice!
Hi mrpete 1/4×40 tpi thread is one of many ME threads. ME (model engineer) threads are available in many sizes and pitches, and used by thousands of model engineers worldwide. That explains why it is on your model governor . Andy South Australia
I really love your video's, Usually I learn something from all the ones I have watched. Please keep on making these great videos and thanks for all the time and effort you put into them.
Mr. Pete, I was under the impression that the ball governors were adjusted to set engine rpm for operation. I'm guessing that the desired rpm would be obtained with the ball valve at 40% to 50% open. The additional opening would be needed to provide more steam as the load increased. Thanks for setting the governor up and filming it operating. Enjoyed it.
Here in Northern Colorado one our long time engineering employers is Woodward Governor, founded in 1870, and I believe one of the principle inventors of steam governors. Today this function is managed by electro-mechanical digital solutions, but at one time... I’ve known people at all levels in that company, and I recall being told their devices of the type you’ve covered here were more for the steam tractor rather than train markets. So I’ve always been fascinated by the concept, and quite enjoyed this piece.
Another source for the spring like belts is oil seals found on car wheel bearings and gearbox oil seals they are of various lengths and if you find one with two of the same seals they can be joined to make a longer belt
I was always intrigued by the centrifugal Governors on the elevator lift equipment in the old office building I worked at. Both on the lift motor/winch assembly and the emergency brake system.
Yes it does function and does demonstrate how a governor works. You’d probably need both the engine and its governor to be designed together and properly matched, inlet throat dimensions or spring tensions etc for it to work properly. However as a demo it’s sufficient. And does look good. Some years ago I bought that o-ring kit for a maintenance section I supervised. The rings produced were OK for static situations i.e joints but less reliable for dynamic use like piston seals. We had to go back to keeping all the various sizes in stock. Regards
I did actually watch your prony brake video back when you posted it...sounds as if you are toying with the idea of scaling one down for this engine...Very nice to see it in action! Thanks, Mr. Pete! :-)
Interesting video up to your usual standard Mr. Pete... I've been to see a few stationary engines (and there are quite a lot here in the UK), and watching this the thought occurred to me that all the ones still working, worked at a much slower speed. As a guesstement, I would estimate the govenor would rotate about 10-20 times in one rotation of the output shaft. When I was growing up in the 50's my mother would ask me a "joke"; "Why is a mouse when it spins?" The answer she gave me was "The higher, the fewer". It was only about 10 years ago the I learned that the governor spinning-ball assembly was called a mouse, and that if the engine speeded up (due to a reduced load, e.g.) the the ball's centrifigal force would close the valve resulting in fewer revolutions.
I love all your videos on steam engines but I love steam engine governor's! This was a very good video! Hats off Sir and "Balls to the Walls"!!! Thank you.
They are made by a fellow steam hobbyist named Jin, he has a company called "Microcosm," you may have seen his hit and miss engines on banggood and UA-cam. He also makes steam engines and other accessories for them, as well as accessories for Mamods and Wilescos.
Great vid. great to hook up and just watch! functional or not. Plus now I now know about PRONY BREAK!!! of course I had to go back and watch your old video. I never would have learned about a prony brake!!!! Just goes to show you never know what you are going to get out of MR PETE'S video's!!!! Thanks for sharing all you knowledge!!!!
Fascinating gadget, not totally sure how it functions but get a good impression of the mechanism. I came across the centrifugal governor when I was reading the Three Body problem
As for the functioning of the device, I reckon it's working just as intended. A governor is essentially a proportional controller, so it's not going to be able to keep the output at a true constant speed (proportional controllers cannot eliminate steady-state error in velocity), but I'm certain from watching/listening that it's doing a far better job of it than the un-controlled engine would.
The Governor is a beautiful little piece of engineering. Seems to work as designed at the higher pressure. Great video. Love you segues and when you run a rabbit. Makes your videos so interesting. See you next time.
the spring is adjustable for valve response as well as pulley speed via the drive pulley. I guess with a lot of effort in tuning it to an application, it could open at x rpm or below, and close at X+ rpm. probably not great for steam hogs with that small orifice. these are cute tho but take a long time to come over on the boat. still waiting on 1
3 cups of coffee? No wonder you're moving slow! I had to leave the house in a hurry this morning, so instead of making a pot I picked up a quad mocha at an espresso stand, and then on my way home after errands got a 32oz mocha freeze. 8 or 9 shots of espresso all told. Espresso has less caffeine than drip coffee, but it kept me going! Nice grind on that lathe bit, btw. I stumbled on a very similar shape grinding bits for my little Taig. Almost a tooth shape: healthy lead angle with lots of rake and clearance, both top and side. As far as your questions at the end go, I think the governor probably needs to be driven at a somewhat lower speed; perhaps via a bigger pulley on the regulator. That will give more steam at a given flywheel rpm. As far as the proportions go, the ideal ratio between engine displacement and the regulator size probably varies quite a bit with engine size, and you also have practical considerations of how small the complex regulator mechanism can be.
As far as proportion goes, Creetors steam engines on their popcorn wagons had huge balls way out of proportion, 'cause they knew it would be an eye-catcher. You've got a real eye-catcher there! (And I did see your pony brake).
Great video Mr. Pete! I have one of these on a little PM Research engine and it works like a charm. Have you ever considered building one of the PM Research #3 or #5 casting kits? Also, the 1/4-40 UNS thread is fairly common in model steam engines. You can buy the taps on eBay, or you can even buy tapered "MTP" taps, or "Universal Taper" taps and dies that are compatible with tapered and straight threads. That universal thread was invented by PM Research, so they're about the only folks you can get those taps and dies from. In any case, keep up the steam engine videos, enjoying them here in Alabama!
It looks visually ok at 19:20 from side with engine running. From a safety perspective I searched Google for "Balls out governer tossed its balls at high rpm", but found nothing, so it seems a safe enineering idea. All I found its also called "balls to the wall".
Real cool enjoyed....seems very detailed and well made, especially for the price. Banggood also has a nice Hit & Miss engine....myfordboy has a couple videos on it. My 3 year old grandson really enjoyed as well.
Enjoyed the video. I did in fact watch both of your Prony brake videos many years ago. I enjoyed them too. They are surely going to be watched now. I feel certain the governor is restricting air flow and reducing horsepower as opposed to just running air into the steam chest.To make a governor that wouldn’t cause restriction would probably require it to be so large as to not look good. In my opinion the one you have is probably a little big but it is a nice addition to the engine.
It would be interesting to see what happens if the spring in the governor was removed, the balls would then swing out at lower speeds and you may get better control.
Mr Pete, those threads are model engineer or ME threads. Large Live steam engines use them (look up live steam on UA-cam. U.K.) that's what the governor is made for.
Keep in mind that it's the air pressure that changes the amount of work the engine can do. It's the volume of air presented to to the piston that changes the speed. That is how the governor works. If you would set the air pressure higher and restrict the flow using a needle valve to start with, the governor would be able to make the final adjustments. The pressure should be set high enough to do the work and the volume set to obtain the desired speed. The governor should be at a half-way position under "normal" load.
Nice modern demo of an old idea. It's clear the governor is "working". But I agree with you about the size. It seems too large for the amount of pressure and torque here. But it looks very cool. Also, I'm going to use that expression (balls out) as often as I can. Not that I know it doesn't mean... you know.
I want one for my d16!! Just got into model steam engines. Governor is a good performance accessory! More load, more steam, automaticly!! Plus i dont like running these too fast(like some videos i watched...waiting for failure). Love your channel and subed!
My dad is a retired Great Lakes Marine engineer, and he posed the question how would the governor work on Steam compared to just air pressure due to the expansive properties of the steam being different than the air? He thought perhaps that running on Steam the governor might work very well. After taking several days to digest what I thought were just the ravings of of a 90 year old man I realized he probably has a point!
Now to make the speed adjustable by changing spring tension inside the governor. Or if you wanted the engine to run slower change the drive pulley to a bigger pulley. I could watch it run for hours! I think you need a buzz saw and cut tooth picks 😉
Totally Terrific. Of course NASA's engineers would consult the mechanical clock nuclear department for weight and inertia speed ratio studies but you bypassed all of that with the finger test. If MIT contacts you tell them ...
I thought it should govern the maximum speed of the engine. So if you applied more steam pressure than what the engine is rated for, the over-speed condition would cause the balls to be thrown out, and the throttle would automatically close to limit the speed. As you increase the load on the engine causing it to slow down, the balls would drop and the the throttle would automatically be increased. In your demonstration, I think you need to increase the air pressure, maybe try 50 - 100 PSI. You should also be able to adjust the spring tension on the governor in order to set the speed range it governs.
I think if you used a larger pulley or weaker spring in the governor, you could slow the engine rpm and make the regulation obvious even under light loads.
You said that you didn't think a 1/4-40 tap and die would be available anywhere. Some information that may be useful: Victor Machinery Exchange, New York City, NY has an inventory of special thread taps and dies. They have been very helpful in supplying special thread taps and dies to me for my antique tool restoration projects. Victor Machinery Exchange advertises in "Home Shop Machinist" magazine.
The old time steam engineers new steam theory very well. It's almost a lost science. To many variables to consider. But still works well as models go. Awesome little engine
I would have cranked up the pressure to the very max that your comfortable that things would not explode, then reduce it some. Then manually adjust the upper spring on the gov till "balls out", at the max rpm that you want. Then start applying to load to the engine. Just before the load was applied, there was max pressure available, but only small amount of air allowed to enter the engine, because it was "balls out". As the load increases, max pressure was available, and the engine slows down, causing the balls to retract, which starts to open up the valve, with max pressure instantly available! If you only bring up the pressure as low as possible, with balls out, at the correct rpm, as the engine slows with load, there ain't nothing for pressure to help out, even if the valve is fully open. In my opinion.
oh I was going to comment on the scale of your engine. it's really compact for the bore while 1:12 scale models tend to be 6+" long or more. I don't think these Microcosm governors are made to 1/12 scale tho. more like 1:8
Very cool! its incredible how cheap these are considering the number of parts needed. I agree it does look a little big for that engine. Nice looking nonetheless.
Hi, sorry to jump on an old post. I do subscribe and love the steam stuff. I'm just about to fit one of these, just my guess - as the distance the balls go out is governed by speed, would not making a larger diameter pulley for the flywheel allow the governor to operate properly at a much lower pressure?
You need to hook it to your generator and then with a series of lights you can switch in and out you can test the governor to see if it properly regulates. :-)
WHY do You-tube creators always have a concern about the length of their videos? have we the viewers not chosen to spend our time watching these creators? what matters to myself is the information and enjoyment received!
18 psi isn't really enough to generate the torque you are asking for when you rub the flywheel. Try this test to prove the governor. With no load on the engine, slowly raise the incoming air pressure and measure the resulting rpm. Without the governor being active, speed will increase with pressure but with it, speed should flatten out some as the governor attempts to control. {The governor can be disabled for this test by putting a piece of wire around it to hold the balls in to save disassembling it.) Once you know the governor characteristic, run the system at a high pressure and try rubbing the flywheel or pinching the end of the shaft to demonstrate the speed control. Looks like a followup video should be coming soon. :}
Hey, Lyle. Don't remember hearing of 1/4-40 thread. Yes for 1/4-20nc , 1/4-27ns , 1/4-28nf , 1/4-32nef . So 1/4-40 must be ns or some off the wall m7×,65mm format.
@@markmossinghoff8185 Interesting. ME thread is a standard that I have not encountered in 45yrs of mechanical and prototype systems. I do think that you are right in your answer. Thank you for the head's up!
@@stanervin6108 Check out a UA-cam creator named Keith Appleton. He does a lot of model steam engine and boilers. His videos are geared mainly towards beginners so he goes into detail quite a bit. And he speaks with a British accent so I know that he's an expert! Ha!
![The Secrets of the Sock Machine [Restoration]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rAFlLEoFilM/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Secrets of the Sock Machine [Restoration]](/img/tr.png)
To check if the governor is actually working or not, disconnect the belt, run the engine at a selected air pressure, then manually pull the governor’s metering rod up and down to see if it changes the engines RPM.
If the engine slows down as you push the metering rod down, then it is in fact restricting the flow of air.
Designing such governors was part of one of the most difficult classes I had in my studies as a mechanical engineer. You can continue to tweak the response through trial and error but to get a really good response takes a lot of math at a pretty high level.
Thanks for the video because i have just built one of your designs for a horizontal steam engine i made it a 20 mm bore x 20 mm stroke . I have also just bought the same governor as you have fitted to your model so i now know i am not going to be wasting my time in retro fitting it to my engine .Great minds must think alike .
👍👍👍
I have been watching your tips videos from #1 to this video in the last few months, have to say the playlist of 1-100, and 101-200 and so on up to 400 is great, because after that I couldn't find more playlists, after 400 you have to type in the tips number and sometimes it doesn't come up. I don't want to miss any, you always have great videos with top notch content and Tubalcain humor.
I've done Electronics most of my life, your Mechanical work shows me what I might have missed. The job I least liked was Janitor work, but in Electronic servicing most of what I did was cleaning stuff. But I enjoyed it.
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Glad you went through the trouble, quite enjoyable presentation. Hard to believe there is a large enough market to manufacture those governors. Thanks.
It certainly sounded like the governor prevented the engine from overspeeding under no-load conditions when you cranked up the pressure.
My bet is that the governor is working like a charm!
Nothing better than a couple cups of good coffee in the morning.. it helps with the tangents which are not only entertaining and more informative than I think you give credit to... I am glad to see you got your governor up and running, it looks good.. Keep the videos coming.
Looks well made. Thanks for the rundown . I really like it.
Mr. Peterson, Those locktite O-ring kits are great. I have used them for years. The 404 locktite (super glue) used on a good square clean o-ring is extreamly capable of maintaining a fail free joint within normal operating pressures of a hydraulic systems.
thank you for sharing, i love watching that governor doing its job. i think changing the governor spring to a lighter spring would be interesting. thanks again
1/4 x 40 tpi is a common model engineer thread here in the UK.
Yes, thank you. I am now realized I have one in stock.
And Australia.
From a fellow ME, you are right on the money with the engine needing more pressure. The governor is running beautifully during this demonstration. During the first run, the engine was running "on governor" only when unloaded. During the 15-18 psi run, there was much more torque available, but the engine was probably running near the high end of its torque curve. To really work that governor you would need a lower RPM setting, which could easily be accomplished by a larger pulley at the governor. I would really enjoy seeing a prony brake on this engine with the governor at different speed settings!
Another improvement would be to bore out the output orifice on the governor, creating less pressure loss in your system, and increasing the cylinder pressure during higher speed running. I would first check to make sure your globe valve does not use that orifice as a sealing face, as you may introduce leakage across the valve.
Best of luck with your future projects!
Thanks Mr. Pete. That was most interesting. I'm glad you found a sweet spot for the setup. I didn't know that they controlled under a load. Thank you for mentioning your brother I'm glad to hear his mind is still sharp and you guys can talk about projects together. Andy
Pete, the purpose of a governor, as you stated in the previous video, is to maintain a constant speed over a varying load. Having said that, a better test would be to add a generator with sufficient “variable” loading and monitor the speed of the engine. Your finger was creating an overloading of the engine and although the valve opened to supply more energy, a constant speed could not be maintained. In an AC voltage generator maintaining a constant frequency is a must. Love your videos and wish I would have had you as a shop teacher. Oh, I think that wouldn’t have been possible. I am either older than you or very close to it. LOL!!
What a nice soldering job! If I'd tried to do that it'd have looked like a complete mess.
I love how you document the *decision-making process* in these videos. That's the hardest thing to communicate, and the most important - it's what I'm constantly trying to get across to my FIRST robotics students.
Thanks------yes
G’day Mr Pete you know that ball safety valve has given that little engine a lovely look now it really sets it off and works well especially for the price of it. Thank you for showing it and the running of it regards John Tasmania Australia 🇦🇺
Hi Mr. Pete. I have recently gained interest in the mechanism of a governor and was glad to understand the tips to installation. I currently do not own a workspace for such mechanism and college never offered a physical and tangible demonstration of feedback system, so until now I have had to learn through imagination as if practicing keyboard on a sheet of paper with dark lines. I, again, am glad to have encountered your video and truly appreciate the work that you have done. Sincerely, Quincy.
Thank you very much, I’m glad you like it
Thank you,sir,for following through and mounting that governor.Wow! Great job,I say!
Anybody in the free world knows how spring belts work? Comon, I rebuild machine tools for a living and have never seen one... Thank goodness I watch your videos. Brilliant
Mr Pete after I saw this Vedio I did order two of these governors from Banggood .very impressed with the detail and workmanship,..I like your vedios very much
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Your finger makes a nice friction brake. Thank you for investing the time to explore this installation, and for going forward to discover the 18 PSI point. Nice!
Definitely enjoyed this series on the governors, spent time doind research on them, as always Tubalcain you do great work.
Hi mrpete
1/4×40 tpi thread is one of many ME threads. ME (model engineer) threads are available in many sizes and pitches, and used by thousands of model engineers worldwide. That explains why it is on your model governor .
Andy
South Australia
I suggest that you remove the governor from the engine and see if the air flow is actually reduced or shut off when you pull the balls out.
I really love your video's, Usually I learn something from all the ones I have watched. Please keep on making these great videos and thanks for all the time and effort you put into them.
Mr. Pete,
I was under the impression that the ball governors were adjusted to set engine rpm for operation. I'm guessing that the desired rpm would be obtained with the ball valve at 40% to 50% open. The additional opening would be needed to provide more steam as the load increased. Thanks for setting the governor up and filming it operating. Enjoyed it.
Here in Northern Colorado one our long time engineering employers is Woodward Governor, founded in 1870, and I believe one of the principle inventors of steam governors. Today this function is managed by electro-mechanical digital solutions, but at one time... I’ve known people at all levels in that company, and I recall being told their devices of the type you’ve covered here were more for the steam tractor rather than train markets. So I’ve always been fascinated by the concept, and quite enjoyed this piece.
Thank you, I believe they have a plant in Rockford Illinois. I had a friend that worked there
Another source for the spring like belts is oil seals found on car wheel bearings and gearbox oil seals they are of various lengths and if you find one with two of the same seals they can be joined to make a longer belt
I was always intrigued by the centrifugal Governors on the elevator lift equipment in the old office building I worked at. Both on the lift motor/winch assembly and the emergency brake system.
Use an optical tachometer to measure speed. It should give a constant speed irrespective of air pressure.
Yes it does function and does demonstrate how a governor works. You’d probably need both the engine and its governor to be designed together and properly matched, inlet throat dimensions or spring tensions etc for it to work properly. However as a demo it’s sufficient. And does look good.
Some years ago I bought that o-ring kit for a maintenance section I supervised. The rings produced were OK for static situations i.e joints but less reliable for dynamic use like piston seals. We had to go back to keeping all the various sizes in stock. Regards
Mr Pete, I think your "tangents" are sometimes just as informative as the initial concept of your videos
I did actually watch your prony brake video back when you posted it...sounds as if you are toying with the idea of scaling one down for this engine...Very nice to see it in action! Thanks, Mr. Pete! :-)
Interesting video up to your usual standard Mr. Pete... I've been to see a few stationary engines (and there are quite a lot here in the UK), and watching this the thought occurred to me that all the ones still working, worked at a much slower speed. As a guesstement, I would estimate the govenor would rotate about 10-20 times in one rotation of the output shaft.
When I was growing up in the 50's my mother would ask me a "joke"; "Why is a mouse when it spins?" The answer she gave me was "The higher, the fewer". It was only about 10 years ago the I learned that the governor spinning-ball assembly was called a mouse, and that if the engine speeded up (due to a reduced load, e.g.) the the ball's centrifigal force would close the valve resulting in fewer revolutions.
I love all your videos on steam engines but I love steam engine governor's! This was a very good video! Hats off Sir and "Balls to the Walls"!!! Thank you.
They are made by a fellow steam hobbyist named Jin, he has a company called "Microcosm," you may have seen his hit and miss engines on banggood and UA-cam. He also makes steam engines and other accessories for them, as well as accessories for Mamods and Wilescos.
Great vid. great to hook up and just watch! functional or not. Plus now I now know about PRONY BREAK!!! of course I had to go back and watch your old video. I never would have learned about a prony brake!!!! Just goes to show you never know what you are going to get out of MR PETE'S video's!!!! Thanks for sharing all you knowledge!!!!
Fascinating gadget, not totally sure how it functions but get a good impression of the mechanism. I came across the centrifugal governor when I was reading the Three Body problem
As for the functioning of the device, I reckon it's working just as intended. A governor is essentially a proportional controller, so it's not going to be able to keep the output at a true constant speed (proportional controllers cannot eliminate steady-state error in velocity), but I'm certain from watching/listening that it's doing a far better job of it than the un-controlled engine would.
The Governor is a beautiful little piece of engineering. Seems to work as designed at the higher pressure. Great video. Love you segues and when you run a rabbit. Makes your videos so interesting. See you next time.
the spring is adjustable for valve response as well as pulley speed via the drive pulley. I guess with a lot of effort in tuning it to an application, it could open at x rpm or below, and close at X+ rpm. probably not great for steam hogs with that small orifice. these are cute tho but take a long time to come over on the boat. still waiting on 1
Increase the pressure further, or weaken the spring (this will lower rpm) and it will do better at "keeping pace" when load is applied.
3 cups of coffee? No wonder you're moving slow! I had to leave the house in a hurry this morning, so instead of making a pot I picked up a quad mocha at an espresso stand, and then on my way home after errands got a 32oz mocha freeze. 8 or 9 shots of espresso all told. Espresso has less caffeine than drip coffee, but it kept me going!
Nice grind on that lathe bit, btw. I stumbled on a very similar shape grinding bits for my little Taig. Almost a tooth shape: healthy lead angle with lots of rake and clearance, both top and side.
As far as your questions at the end go, I think the governor probably needs to be driven at a somewhat lower speed; perhaps via a bigger pulley on the regulator. That will give more steam at a given flywheel rpm.
As far as the proportions go, the ideal ratio between engine displacement and the regulator size probably varies quite a bit with engine size, and you also have practical considerations of how small the complex regulator mechanism can be.
Thanks 👍
I love it too! And it’s great to hear the joy in your voice saying you love it.
Mr Pete. I loved this video. I will never do anything like this but it’s mesmerizing to watch you attack and solve problems. 5 stars *****
As far as proportion goes, Creetors steam engines on their popcorn wagons had huge balls way out of proportion, 'cause they knew it would be an eye-catcher. You've got a real eye-catcher there! (And I did see your pony brake).
You made a very good point
This is my second go around with this video, I find these engines so interesting
Great video Mr. Pete! I have one of these on a little PM Research engine and it works like a charm. Have you ever considered building one of the PM Research #3 or #5 casting kits? Also, the 1/4-40 UNS thread is fairly common in model steam engines. You can buy the taps on eBay, or you can even buy tapered "MTP" taps, or "Universal Taper" taps and dies that are compatible with tapered and straight threads. That universal thread was invented by PM Research, so they're about the only folks you can get those taps and dies from. In any case, keep up the steam engine videos, enjoying them here in Alabama!
I'm sure the governor is Oriental , thanks for a video on these engines. We get and enjoy your humor also. Thanks again.
1/4-40 is a standard ME (model engineer) thread in the UK.
It looks visually ok at 19:20 from side with engine running.
From a safety perspective I searched Google for "Balls out governer tossed its balls at high rpm", but found nothing, so it seems a safe enineering idea. All I found its also called "balls to the wall".
at 6:08, you show a great spring that is in a loop, how do you a spring in a loop like that? thanks,
Real cool enjoyed....seems very detailed and well made, especially for the price. Banggood also has a nice Hit & Miss engine....myfordboy has a couple videos on it.
My 3 year old grandson really enjoyed as well.
Enjoyed the video. I did in fact watch both of your Prony brake videos many years ago. I enjoyed them too. They are surely going to be watched now. I feel certain the governor is restricting air flow and reducing horsepower as opposed to just running air into the steam chest.To make a governor that wouldn’t cause restriction would probably require it to be so large as to not look good. In my opinion the one you have is probably a little big but it is a nice addition to the engine.
Thanks
It would be interesting to see what happens if the spring in the governor was removed, the balls would then swing out at lower speeds and you may get better control.
Very interesting and I too love the governor mounter on an engine even though i also think it looks too big in proportion.
Thanks for showing it to us in action Mr. Pete! Really cool!
I think the proportion looks good to that engine.
Mr Pete, those threads are model engineer or ME threads. Large Live steam engines use them (look up live steam on UA-cam. U.K.) that's what the governor is made for.
Keep in mind that it's the air pressure that changes the amount of work the engine can do. It's the volume of air presented to to the piston that changes the speed. That is how the governor works. If you would set the air pressure higher and restrict the flow using a needle valve to start with, the governor would be able to make the final adjustments. The pressure should be set high enough to do the work and the volume set to obtain the desired speed. The governor should be at a half-way position under "normal" load.
All that little engine needs is more pressure, looks like a good match to me
Very neat! Would be fun to rig up a way to test the engine with and without the the governor.
Nice modern demo of an old idea. It's clear the governor is "working". But I agree with you about the size. It seems too large for the amount of pressure and torque here. But it looks very cool.
Also, I'm going to use that expression (balls out) as often as I can. Not that I know it doesn't mean... you know.
Balls out means you disassembled something with uncaged ball bearings. :(
I love to use an Armstrong Wrench if I have to work on my Armstrong Power Steering or Armstrong Power Windows
I want one for my d16!! Just got into model steam engines. Governor is a good performance accessory! More load, more steam, automaticly!! Plus i dont like running these too fast(like some videos i watched...waiting for failure). Love your channel and subed!
👍👍👍
My dad is a retired Great Lakes Marine engineer, and he posed the question how would the governor work on Steam compared to just air pressure due to the expansive properties of the steam being different than the air? He thought perhaps that running on Steam the governor might work very well. After taking several days to digest what I thought were just the ravings of of a 90 year old man I realized he probably has a point!
He is absolutely correct
Now to make the speed adjustable by changing spring tension inside the governor. Or if you wanted the engine to run slower change the drive pulley to a bigger pulley. I could watch it run for hours! I think you need a buzz saw and cut tooth picks 😉
Can you increase the size of the pulley by the flywheel MrPete? Balls should be out at lower speed?
Totally Terrific. Of course NASA's engineers would consult the mechanical clock nuclear department for weight and inertia speed ratio studies but you bypassed all of that with the finger test. If MIT contacts you tell them ...
Mr Pete thank for posting i would to see you Governor number two and be nice to see them on steam
Thank you, I think I am done with the governor's for now. Not many people watched it
Are the bolts also known as the acorn nut on top of one governor, and the hex nut on top of the other one adjustable?
Can you try the other governor with the drill again but put an airhose or waterhose on it to show that it is doing something?
I thought it should govern the maximum speed of the engine. So if you applied more steam pressure than what the engine is rated for, the over-speed condition would cause the balls to be thrown out, and the throttle would automatically close to limit the speed. As you increase the load on the engine causing it to slow down, the balls would drop and the the throttle would automatically be increased. In your demonstration, I think you need to increase the air pressure, maybe try 50 - 100 PSI. You should also be able to adjust the spring tension on the governor in order to set the speed range it governs.
I think if you used a larger pulley or weaker spring in the governor, you could slow the engine rpm and make the regulation obvious even under light loads.
Glad to see that you can still get your balls out, it just takes a little more pressure 😉😉 !
You said that you didn't think a 1/4-40 tap and die would be available anywhere. Some information that may be useful: Victor Machinery Exchange, New York City, NY has an inventory of special thread taps and dies. They have been very helpful in supplying special thread taps and dies to me for my antique tool restoration projects. Victor Machinery Exchange advertises in "Home Shop Machinist" magazine.
Thanks
The old time steam engineers new steam theory very well. It's almost a lost science. To many variables to consider. But still works well as models go. Awesome little engine
Mr Pete, strongly advise against using lead on anything steam. Silver solder is the only product you'd want to use
Thank you Mr Pete; very interesting i wonder whether the governor valve could be drilled out a little?
Were any of the rest of you like me? Two of Pete's excellent videos and 2 hours of surfing Banggood.
Yes
I would have cranked up the pressure to the very max that your comfortable that things would not explode, then reduce it some. Then manually adjust the upper spring on the gov till "balls out", at the max rpm that you want.
Then start applying to load to the engine.
Just before the load was applied, there was max pressure available, but only small amount of air allowed to enter the engine, because it was "balls out".
As the load increases, max pressure was available, and the engine slows down, causing the balls to retract, which starts to open up the valve, with max pressure instantly available!
If you only bring up the pressure as low as possible, with balls out, at the correct rpm, as the engine slows with load, there ain't nothing for pressure to help out, even if the valve is fully open.
In my opinion.
Good idea, thank you
oh I was going to comment on the scale of your engine. it's really compact for the bore while 1:12 scale models tend to be 6+" long or more. I don't think these Microcosm governors are made to 1/12 scale tho. more like 1:8
Very cool! its incredible how cheap these are considering the number of parts needed. I agree it does look a little big for that engine. Nice looking nonetheless.
Hi, sorry to jump on an old post. I do subscribe and love the steam stuff. I'm just about to fit one of these, just my guess - as the distance the balls go out is governed by speed, would not making a larger diameter pulley for the flywheel allow the governor to operate properly at a much lower pressure?
Yes I’m pretty sure
it would be nice to see one work on one of your double action engines
40 tpi threads are typically Modell Engineer (ME) threads, 55° thread form.
I looks like the governor is physically large than its flow capacity. Maybe a volume booster could be used to allow control of bigger engines.
Than you for another interesting video. I think that it rather suits your engine.
I miss ergs. I was educated on them, and directly I finished all my exams, they moved to those new-fangled joule thingies. And nobody ever apologised.
Ergs are cgs system. Physicists still use this. Joule are mks system. More common in engineering.
You need to hook it to your generator and then with a series of lights you can switch in and out you can test the governor to see if it properly regulates. :-)
1/4-40 threads (and 5-40, also) are very common thread sizes in model engineering.
Grate Video! Glad you took the time to show us. Thanks.
I've never seen an Armstrong wrench , SW U.S.A and I'm holding a pretty high regard for the governor
Run it on 18 psi without the governor and compare the results
WHY do You-tube creators always have a concern about the length of their videos? have we the viewers not chosen to spend our time watching these creators? what matters to myself is the information and enjoyment received!
Even if it doesn’t work just right, it does look nice.
18 psi isn't really enough to generate the torque you are asking for when you rub the flywheel. Try this test to prove the governor. With no load on the engine, slowly raise the incoming air pressure and measure the resulting rpm. Without the governor being active, speed will increase with pressure but with it, speed should flatten out some as the governor attempts to control. {The governor can be disabled for this test by putting a piece of wire around it to hold the balls in to save disassembling it.) Once you know the governor characteristic, run the system at a high pressure and try rubbing the flywheel or pinching the end of the shaft to demonstrate the speed control. Looks like a followup video should be coming soon. :}
Pretty neat!
Although now I have to look for the prony brake video.
What the hell is a prony brake?
Oops, did I say that out loud?
Thanks.
A prony brake is what makes your young horse come to a complete halt.
Hey, Lyle.
Don't remember hearing of 1/4-40 thread. Yes for 1/4-20nc , 1/4-27ns , 1/4-28nf , 1/4-32nef . So 1/4-40 must be ns or some off the wall m7×,65mm format.
I think it's an "m e" thread. Model Engineering.
@@markmossinghoff8185
Interesting. ME thread is a standard that I have not encountered in 45yrs of mechanical and prototype systems. I do think that you are right in your answer. Thank you for the head's up!
@@josephmagedanz4070
You mean #12-24?
@@stanervin6108 Check out a UA-cam creator named Keith Appleton. He does a lot of model steam engine and boilers. His videos are geared mainly towards beginners so he goes into detail quite a bit. And he speaks with a British accent so I know that he's an expert! Ha!
Great video! Thanks Mr. Pete
What do you use to lubricate the cylinder/piston?