Eastman E20 P & Collings 0002h guitars compared
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- Опубліковано 13 гру 2019
- Hi, this is my second video about my new Eastman guitar. As I don't have a Martin to compare it with, I'm comparing with a Collings (which is kinda unfair).
The Eastman is a copy of a Model "0" and the Collings is a copy (or tribute?) to a "000".
This is not to knock either maker - just to compare the build and finish quality bearing in mind that one item is 200% more expensive. Same tone woods (actually the Eastman says it is Adirondack) and the Collings is sitka.
As always , your questions and comments are welcomed andi try to answer them all.
CORRECTION : The head stock of the Eastman does NOT have glued on Wings, but it is a separate piece of wood from the neck and joined with the "volute and into the neck - but whilst obvious upon close inspection - is not an issue but merely a way of reducing wastage of wood. My apologies for the misinformation
This is a fascinating comparison. Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Excellent video. I was surprised by the location of your strap button on the Collings.
Hi, I put dtrap buttons n the end of the heel on all guitars that might be played standing. I know that many folk say it is wrong/dangerous unsafe etc., but for me it balances my guitars perfectly. More info here: ua-cam.com/video/2th4-GSbgCk/v-deo.html
Interesting video Andy.
Glad you think so!
Love Larrivee guitars. Had a Collings OM1 and a Larrivee OM 09 . Sold the Collings and didn’t look back
Hi, I once had a larrivee SD50TSB. Fine guitar. In the very large hands of a friend now.
Interesting comparison
Thanks,
After seeing this vid about the Collings OOO2H I’ve since viewed loads of vids about this model guitar and I think it’s fair to say it’s reached a kind of legendary status esp with finger pickers. Value is always subjective but after seeing that neck, when you start doing the math about all the hours of skill and care, it’s a wonder how these Luthiers make anything?
There’s a guy who has a channel on here, who sells high end classical guitars in Australia I think it is? Anyway he has a Collings similar to this but with Brazilian and the sound is just about the best I’ve ever heard.
Hi again Andy, thanks for watching. The 000 was the second Collings I bought. It's a 2003 model. I think that there are those that think that the 00 model is more focussed, but sadly one hasn't come my way (and neither has the cash to buy one). I sold my oldest Collings Dread in Mrch thinking it might fund a 00 but sadly a horrfic dentistry bill and new specs too care of that.
Do you have a link where I can hear that guitar?
Hi again, Andy
Another very watchable video, thanks for taking the time to make them all.
I found this one especially interesting as I'm in a similar position, being the lucky owner of a Collings OM2h and an Eastman E10P, the latter is the mahogany equivalent of your E20P. Yours looks and sounds nice and am sure it will sound even better after a bit more playing and time. Looking at my E10P, after seeing the details of your E20P, I've made a few observations and also have some questions, I'd be grateful if you could give your thoughts:
1. You mention that the headstock has wings but does it also have a joint between the headstock itself and the neck? Mine has a (very well made) bridle/birdbeak joint here but I am fairly sure that it doesn't have wings.
2. I noticed your fingerboard markers run between frets 5-14, whereas mine are the 2-1-2 pattern (diamond-shaped markers, same as yours) from frets 5-9 (so same style and pattern as on your 0002h). I looked on Eastman's website and it seems they've now changed the E10P to have dot markers and they run from frets 3-14, so one extra marker than the E20P - I much prefer my style to the current one. I'm sure the 20P used to have the same pattern as mine.
3. It's nice to have ebony for the fretboard and bridge, it's not seen on many guitars that are more than twice the price of Eastmans. I have noticed that the staining of the ebony is a bit uneven on mine and there is what looks like this stain on edge of the soundhole and on the brace that's under the end of the fretboard. Neither of these are major points but, as you say, you wouldn't find this on a Collings.
4. Mine also has the slightly less-than-perfect joint and finishing where the heel meets the body. As with my point 3 above, this is very minor and acceptable for the price.
5. Yours has a pickguard fitted, which I believe is standard for all Eastman guitars now. There isn't one on mine and nor was there one in the case. From reading the Eastman forum, I think until a year or two ago it was random as to which had a guard factory-fitted and which (supposedly) had the guard left in the case, although these were at the mercy of being lost/snaffled by shop staff. I think this type of guitar suits a no-guard look, although I'm glad Eastman have chosen a teardrop/OM-style guard rather than a full length job.
6. I didn't know that these had an Adirondack top, I see it's in the Eastman specs on their site but I don't think it was listed as such when I bought mine. Mine may be an Adirondack top, I think Eastman had a bit of change and inconsistency with specs for a while but have settled down now. Strange about your bridge-pin alignment though, mine is dead-on.
Overall, I am more than happy with mine, outstanding value for money, very well made. I'm glad I got it when I did as they seem to be getting a bit thinner on the ground (in the UK), it'll be interesting to see what comes out of the collaboration with Bourgeois. I hope you enjoy yours, Andy, keep us updated and keep playing.
Kev.
Hi Kevin,
1. late last night, after I read you long response, I took out my Eastman, and examined it under a very bright spotlight. You are correct - there IS a join between neck and headstock, and I have to admit that I'm no longer so sure about my assumption that it has "wings" as the way that it is finished (looks a bit like their classic finish - what I thought was a join along the headstock might merely be paint brush strokes.
2. you are correct about fret markers - which I find confusing.
3. Ebony shouldn't be stained but left unfinished. however it is common on cheaper items for another wood to be used and "ebonised" (i.e. painted black - V common on double basses. Ebony is also becoming more difficult to source and they have been discarding perfect wood which has lighter markings. This is now being changed by some.
4. Yeah - just looks a bit as if it has been filled with glue and finished over. Doesn't look good if a reset is necessary - but won't happen in my lifetime!
5. I had kinda hoped that the pickguard would be unfixed and packed in the case for use if wished. Mine isn't a very pretty or well finished one - but I doubt I'll mess around with it.
6. Adirondack? Mine wasn't advertised as adi - but website says they are, and the grain is quite wide suggesting new growth Red spruce. I don't care much as, again, I won't live long enough to fully open it up whichever spruce it is.
Bourgeois - Yes - sounds like he might be going for a "second line" - Collings chose the Waterloo brand, Martin retains their brand, H&D do their "Crossroads?" All trying to compete with Far eastyern products by using far eastern products. Eggle introduced Faith, then discovered that they were pretty much as good as he was making under his own name - so dropped the British production.
@@SillyMoustache Thanks for the quick and detailed reply, Andy. Without turning this into the longest-ever UA-cam discussion, I'll just say a few bits in response to your points:
1. Yes, hard to spot the headstock joint, it's done well and somewhat hidden by the finish. I can't imagine wings as well as this joint, especially not on a slothead - I could be wrong, though.
3. I'm sure I'd read that most ebony is stained to give that monotone black finish; this was in reference to higher-end builders, too. I'm not sure if Collings, for example, stain their ebony but mine has that perfectly consistent matt-black finish; I don't know if natural unstained ebony always (or can) looks like this. I am aware of the shortage of good wood. My Eastman is specced as ebony, as is yours, but does seem to be stained, hence my remark about the overspill in the soundhole.
5. I believe Eastman are starting to use Delmar pickguards now. I haven't any experience of them but many on the forums seem to rate them for quality of material, finish and looks/colour. I guess yours may be an old-stock, non-Delmar.
6. I didn't know about the Adirondack top until you mentioned it in your video - I'm assuming you had looked at the specs on Eastman's site for this if it wasn't something that was mentioned at the shop when you bought it. I was just curious more than anything, not something that bothers me either way.
Could be a second-line for Bourgeois, we'll have to wait and see. I know Waterloo are sometimes viewed as Collings' second-line but they are based on different guitars, not cheaper versions of Collings (branded) models, even though they do cost less. I also know that you are well aware of this being a Collings and Waterloo enthusiast and having extensive knowledge of the history of guitars so know all about the models on which Waterloo are based.
Again, thanks for replying, take care.
Kev.
Andy, good comparison. In the 1920s, a Kalamazoo was desired in select South Eastern Oklahoma church, but they had a Martin. That's where Dad learned guitar. Have you ever tried a small Jumbo?
Probably - remember for me it is a wider fretboard and 12 fretters that are "thing".
Did I miss the nut width on the Eastman.? I have played many, and the nut widths have all been less than their stated figure and the strings at the nut spaced like a 1 11/16ths nut guitar. And the string spacing at the bridge to be closer to 2 1/8th.
Hi, I have also experienced this. My Eastman is a full 1 & 13/16" nut with a 2 & 5/16" string spacing.
@@SillyMoustache Good to hear. I have often looked at, and road tested ,Eastmans but not this particular model which we have eyeballed many times. . We are partial to 1 13/16ths to 1 7/8ths nut widths. ..1 3/4 being the MAS ( minimum acceptable standard). Our MAS for bridge string spacing is 2 1/4".. with 2 3/8ths optimum and 2 5/16ths acceptable.
We have a very fine Marftin 0018V with highly figured mahogany backs and sides, but the string spacing is not ideal. We are looking for a replacement with 1 13/16ths and 2 5/16ths or better. The Eastman may be a candidate. Thanks again. We have similar tastes in guitars and specs. And immensely enjoy your channel; entertaining and informative. Melinda and Jeff
Another comparison popped up! TKL cases have more plys of plywood and are heavier than Eastman cases. They both work, but I like the carbon fiber Martin cases if one can afford them. They keep humidity better, are supposed to be stronger, and are lighter weight. I prefer the 000 size. Have you tried a small Jumbo? Gibson makes a J-185, but Iris Guitars makes an AB 12-fret similar to a J-185, but sounds better to my ear (Adirondack with repurposed Brazilian Rosewood). It is louder that my Bourgeois Small Jumbo (Adirondack-Mahogany) that has a different voice, and sounds great as well. Also works well with open G and open D.
Hi Tex, yeah, cases would be a good subject but I only have Collings style TKLs Eastman cases and one Ameritage, which weighs about the same as a small SUV.
I have far too many great guitars and ever less opportunities to play them. Last week I would have proudly said that I am trying/buying no more guitars, but something appeared on Ebay on Friday, and there will be another guitar video shortly. (Some have GOTTA go!, Best, Ol'Andy
I love my Collings also. A 1996 0002h and a 2004 0002H. I play the '96, I store the '04.
Jim, get that 2004 out and put some mileage on it! In my experience Collings don't react well to being neglected!
@@SillyMoustache I'm sure you are correct. I got the '04 for sort of an "investment" and "saving" it in case something happens to my '96. I do play it occasionally, like last night. It still has a "green" sound to it and and new guitar smell, but I'm sure it would develop better if I played it, in the house, and very carefully and far more often.
Live in Austin, will visit the Collings factory 🤗
Please end me a link-if possible.
Nice discussion. My advice in the U.S. is to buy any Eastman NOW, before the price goes up for a beautifully made instrument.
Good point!
great video but yeah you can't really compare a 5k guitar with a 1500 guitar imho.
i player a custom guitar few weeks ago WOW could not believe the quality of the sound i can only imagine the Collings sound amazing you get what what you pay for.
but i would settle for that eastman anytime.
like to know what you think of the yamaha LL16 compaired to that eastman.
Hi Anthony, to be fair, the Eastman really holds it's own. I'd love to do a comparisons with the Eastman, a Martin 028vs and a Collings 02h but I don't have access to such things. I cannot comment on the Yamaha - and I think it would be an even less fair comparison than mine above, because it is the Yamaha large body 14 fret if I understand correctly. There is a new face at my club who plays a Yamaha and it soud extremely nice to me.
I'm just a strummer only play in the house but sure can appreciate a quality guitar.love your video's.
The LS16 is the concert size I think. I have the LS6 which is laminated but still sounds great.
Great video as usual! I’ve had both these guitars for years and compare them often. I use Thomastik strings on both, 12-52 gauge. The Collings has a more fundamental tone, very balanced. The Eastman is a very loud instrument for its size and has a darker tone, a deep bass and a unique treble response (clean, bell like). The Collings treble response is fatter but less ethereal. Personally I believe the Eastman holds its own regardless of price. My Eastman is a lot more played in than silly’s and has a very open sound. The Adirondack top needs a good few years of playing in to sound it’s best of course. To my ears the Eastman sounds tonally like a cross between Martin (bass response) and H&D (treble response). Magnificent guitars that have a unique tonal profile.
@@vegetableswife Why did you choose those strings? I have a fairly new E20 P Eastman too, and wondering what is best for it. I don't like the coated ones it came with. It seems to have a nice clear bass and treble as expected with Rosewood.
I love my Collings but even I can see that there isn't £4000 difference between these two. I am currently looking at Eastman OM's because I just can't envisage spending 5K on an OM2H, even though I have had my heart set on one for a long time. Thinking of the E8OM but unsure of the value in having the Thermo Cured version, it seems to be a bit snake oilish to me.
Hi, I have no experience of TC, VTS or other terms for torrified/terrified etc., but I know a good instrument when I see/hear one, and Eastman do great stuff! BTW - Their "OM" guitars are mis-named as they have short scales - so should be called 000.
Just curious. What is your opinion of Guild?
Hi Woody, I've had no experience of Guilds since I had a D40 back in the late '60s early '70s.
How would you compare the Eastman vs Breedlove vs Taylor?
Sorry Robert, I have no experience with Taylor or Breedlove.
I buy Collings for the note definition and quality of overtones. Eastmans have many good features but are weak in those 2 areas. You can clearly hear it in this video.
Collings guitars are remarkably good. I now have a '98 build 002h, so look out for another comparison video! Thanks for your comments.
Hi I'm thinking of purchasing an Eastman the one I am looking at E20 00, but torn between mahogany and rosewood any advice?
Totally a personal choice Nigel, I chose rosewood, patially because I felt it better for smaller fingerstyle guitars, and frankly, because I prefer the look of the Martin style 28 trim better than the 18 trim. However,Eastman to the 18 trim very well! Hope that helps.
@@SillyMoustache Thanks it sort of confirms what I was thinking, I have now actually bought the E20.00 and its great.
I guess it's a bit too nippy to film in the conservatory?
Yup - eggs - actly! Oor lighting I know - bit disappointed about that.
I was thinking of buying an eastman just been put off buying
You've been put off buying by my video?
The eastman is more "boxy" in my opinion, but I think the main reason I think is The size.
Hi Alessandro, this is a little like comparing apples and oranges, due to difference in age and makers as well as size, but I've been asked to make another video about varying sizes of guitar and their qualities so please keep watching.
The Eastman sounds more pleasant to me in this recording. Considering the price I go for the Eastman.
Hi, my two Eastmans are lovely instruments, but the Collings are simply perfection. Thanks for watching.
Sounds beautiful actually and I’m sure one of the really high end American makers have asked Eastman to make some “cheaper” models for them? Collings make Stella guitars and given the price of a mass produced Martin D45 albeit a lovely guitar, I would guess to spend £8000 on a Collings would get something really special.
Hi Andy, I'm not convinced that Eastman makes for anybody else at present. Although the Bourgeois tie-up will be interesting to watch. As far as I'm aware Collings have no connection with the Stella Brand, but their Waterloo line recreates, mostly Gibson/Kalamazoo style instruments, and maybe some early recording King (Jumbo king) shapes - I think the Jumbo king is a failure.
More pieces of wood on a neck is a good thing, as glue is stronger than wood so this will strengthen the neck. In otherwords if anything the Eastman design is better. People like one piece for the aesthetics.
Hi, the standard issue E20-P is the three piece, and the E40-00 is a one single piece. I can see that the three piece might be less wasteful of mahogany.
@@SillyMoustache yes absolutely. Mahogany is a stable wood so both should remain straight and solid. It is actually much more time consuming to make multiple piece necks. The eye watering pricey high end guitars often have 3-5 piece necks for stability. Martin switched to one piece Mahogany to save money, when the wood was plentiful. It is interesting how fashion, technology, and resources drive guitar design. Thanks for your videos.
@@afisher555 Hi, don't let me confuse you. Some multi piece necks were "sandwiched" length ways, but this is not the case for the Eastman. It has one piece which is the headstock, "scarfed" (?) into the neck part down to the heel. The "toe" of the heel is the third part.
@@SillyMoustache That is true, they form a nice joint with the head stock, as the alternative is to use a bigger piece of wood. I should declare my interest here. I am a fine furniture maker and am interested in guitar technology and history. Amazingly furniture made from what is now scarce mahogany was veneered, and guitar building follows a similar history. In terms of strength it makes sense to separate the neck from the headstock. I think the evolution of design is fascinating. Also we are very familiar with mahogany and rosewood backs with spruce or cedar tops, and our ears think that is the 'right' sound. In the next decade we will get used to other wood sounds as the others become more scarce. Lovely videos by the way.
The Collins sound is way better but the Eastman isn't bad. Nice video.
Yeah - You are right of course.
Being an armchair picker, I play only small guitars (sadly called "travel guitars"), and Eastman's ACT models are simply incredible. Especially for the price, but maybe even at any price.
Agreed. Eastman have proved that the "magic" of making a fine American designed instrument is not peculiar to a geographic location. The fact that costs and standards of living differ from the west, is to their commercial advantage. Ever was it thus. When growing cotton or tobacco in north America became too problematic, we simply grew them in India and Africa. I digress. Thanks for watching.
This did not help me very much as he compared a 000 to an 0.
Hi, I can understand that. Please look at this comparison of my Eastman 0 and 00, ua-cam.com/video/7ZOTW1vp67c/v-deo.html and a direct comparison of two "00" guitars with an 2020 Eastman and a 25 year old Collings : ua-cam.com/video/NLZ-TsOcSAI/v-deo.html. Thanks for watching.
The wealthy love what wealth can buy.
The hard working for many years, can afford a few luxuries towards the end of their llves.
Get what you love if and when you can I say, I'm an older guy, have an excellent Eastman E6SS-TC that I love but would I like a Collings when I can.....you betcha, they're outstanding 😊