The Pop Culture Fetishization of Trans Women
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- A look at some of the ways pop culture has framed trans women.
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Since this seems to be a recurring theme in the comments, I'll address this here. When we talk about depictions of transgender people in media, as many people point out, the characters that I discuss in this video are not explicitly transgender. This is true. However, depictions do not need to be explicit to inform how we view issues such as gender. For example, to use a separate example, think about how folks talk about how orcs are coded as people of color in Lord of the Rings. It is not exactly the same as what I discuss here as that is using racial coding, but it shows the point that something does not need to be explict to inform our opinions on something. So the point that I draw in this video is that while characters like Buffalo Bill or Norman Bates are not EXPLICITLY transgender, the fact that there is a constant and consistent trend of characters subverting gender norms being associated with being violent criminals both informs and also conversely reveals how larger society views a trans person, who is also seen to transgress gender norms. The same with the stereotype of sex worker for example as well. So yes, the folks who are constantly pointing out that these characters are not EXPLICLTY transgender are correct. Yet, they still inform how trans people would be viewed. As I state in the end of the video, I recommend Lindsay Ellis' video, as it goes deeper into this connection..
7:10 gonna be honest the ace venture movie I was a bit lost on the trans sub-plot upon first viewing. for instance when venture turns the suspect around revealing the genitals. my ape brain just thought she shat herself after getting smacked around. I did not catch on to the trans element til after I was older and had a 2nd viewing of the film.
when i saw the main character of boys don't cry on the list of "the strongest female characters in cinema" i knew casting cis people in trans roles is a bad fucking idea
Boys don't cry was the first time I'd ever seen a trans man portrayed onscreen,that's when I first figured I was a trans man and not a "butch lesbian"
Oh God, that's horrible! Just... noooo, DON'T do that! :( And yeah, a cis woman playing a trans guy would lead to that: the woman would be nominated for a best _actress_ award; the role would be listed in a cis woman's film & tv credits... Those things wouldn't have registered with me as a cis woman, but "strongest _female_ character" did, & it made me think further.
This reminds me of how angry I was when I saw a cis man casted to lead The Danish Girl.
Yeah...but then again, trans people make up such a small percentage of the population. Unfortunately, if cis people can't play trans roles, that will result in even LESS representation.
@@PIB2000 Lol who told you that? There are way more of us out there than you think, but a cisnormative society will lie and miscount to make appear like we don't exist.
the series 'slasher: flesh and blood' on shudder has a non-binary actor (breton lalama ) playing a canonically non-binary role! it's mentioned but not the focus of their character at all, and i got so much joy when their brother casually referred to them as 'my sibling'
Hello fellow Slasher fan! Any ideas on who The Gentleman is??
As someone not well versed in film theory, this was interesting and clearly explained.
The framing of "binary" trans people as normative is really problematic. Similarly, I find the nomenclature "binary trans" problematic generally speaking...but that will be a conversation for another time. But back to the problematic nature of framing "binary" trans people as normative.
So let's go back to Janyce Raymond's book The Transsexual Empire. What is one of the central transphobic arguments against trans people in this book that helps define TERF ideology? That trans people who identify as men or women are bad because they reinforce the gender binary and normative gender norms. Let's fast forward to 1990s queer theory. What is one of the critiques that Judith Butler uses against trans people who identify as men or women in the book Bodies that Matter? That those trans people are bad because they reinforce the gender binary and normative gender ideology. They were certain not radical or cool like genderqueer people who are great because they defy gender norms. From many, many different groups...TERFs to Queer Theorists, trans people who identify as sitting more on the poles of the gender continuum rather than somewhere else alongside it are framed as those who uphold oppressive norms, as not radical, and the conforming ones who make it harder for everyone who is different.
But let us note that the people most often murdered are black and brown trans women. The idea the mainstream society loves trans men or trans women so much and finds that group so comforting and normative is just not reality. If it were, trans women wouldn't be murdered as they are. Also, the assumption that if you identify as a trans man or a trans woman rather than somewhere else along the gender continuum you are automatically gender normative continues inaccurate rhetoric that is part of the TERF foundational ideas of transness. There are drag queen non-normative trans men. There are butch trans women. But also, using trans people as the exemplar of gender normativity to be attacked...but not doing the same for cis people...that is some sketchiness.
I will end with a story. Back in the 90s, I was attending a small liberal arts women's college in the Bay Area with a contingent of radical queer students. It was the high time for Queer Theory. A group of the queer kids decided to invite Les Feinberg to speak. They invited hir because they were excited to have a non-normative genderqueer elder there. I decided to go to the talk because Stone Butch Blues was very important to me. And as I stood amongst a group of people secure they were the more morally righteous because they were genderqueer...and that the trans men and trans women out there were hindrances to liberation because they reinforced the gender binary, Les Feinberg said something that I always keep with me to this day.
Zie said as an admonition, "If you are going to fight for gender as a continuum, then you must also defend the poles of that continuum."
This looks really interesting I haven't heard the term of 'cisgender gaze' before (only cisgender gays haha). I can't wait to watch this...
Also, this is SUCH a great and comprehensive guide to the cis gaze. Thank you.
Thanks!
Khadija omg, hiii auntie!! 🤗
Hi aunty.
My favourite creators! In the same comments section! Asdfghjkl
I feel like I still have no idea what the cis gaze is but I’m willing to learn and I know it exists!
Omg we are in sync cause I am also on all the medication (got my wisdom teeth pulled)
Oh fun! Feel better ❤️🩹
Amazing crossover, I love.
@@JessieGender1 you too!!
They give out the good stuff for that
I didn't need any painkillers for my extraction 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Also just found your channel and SUBBED
It's hugely important for representation purposes to fill trans roles with trans actors. I'm not just talking about making sure trans actors can find work. Casting a cis person of the character's birth gender makes it look like transition doesn't get results. Casting a cis person of the character's identified gender sets an unrealistic standard and likewise suggests that transition isn't possible. We need to see real trans people to understand what being trans is like!
@@Ivytheherbert I'd say it's acceptable if the character is supposed to be pre-transition or the setting is such that medical transition is not feasible.
I'm not 100% sure about your conclusion: I mean, if we only allow "actors" to portray their lived experiences, don;t we turn everything that is not overtly fantastical into a pseudo-documentary? Your "transgender vision" arguments definitely have merit, but I am more concerned to see trans narratives presented by trans *directors*, so we don;t get the cringey framing of _The Danish Girl_ or the ...I have no words for the horror... tacky tuck reveal in _Ace Ventura_.
On one level I get what you are saying.
On another level, who do you think they are more likely to cast?
I was a few episodes into Dispatches From Elsewhere before I found out the Simone character is trans, played by Eve Lindley. I think I must have missed that reveal in an earlier episode because it didn't come up in a way that made it seem like it was new information and the main character didn't act like it was new information to him.
I'd say it's like accents: it's hard for a non-native to render one do that it sounds natural even for the natives. Yet, some actors manage to do that. I think it should be less about who gets to play whom, and mode about who gets to judge whether the performance was realistic and not a caricature. But at present minority groups such as trans people don't have a voice audible enough for such judgement to gry through. So having 'native' actors perform those roles and taking responsibility for representing their own is the next jest thing.
But in that same idea will that typecast them into only trans roles.
Silence of the Lambs and Psycho are so important to the horror genre, but I dislike how the antagonist's are portrayed in them. They're two of my favorite horror movies, but I will never enjoy the way trans antagonists are used in media. Like what the fuck, we're just people, not monsters.
The cisgender gaze is actually kind of funny though, I've never heard of it despite being into media studies, especially theatre and cinema.
I honestly think male gaze is so disgusting because it's all about white cis straight men, I wish there was more gay and transgender/Nonbinary representation, good and positive representation.
Psycho is one of my favorite horrors but Silence of the Lambs was painful to watch other than Anthony's acting and set design imao
Kinda of topic but I hate how horror villains are psychopaths it makes a disability look evil
Norman Bates wasn’t a transgender character I think.
Though it did take inspiration from Ed Gein where I’m pretty sure some false reporting took place in terms of Gein’s motivations
I loved Pet Detective as a kid and I found the scene where Ace "cleanses" himself funny but watching it back as an adult, I just find the blatant transphobia deeply uncomfortable and cringeworthy.
Same
Same, I'm actually a little ashamed at myself finding those scenes funny at the time. Now even just seeing them in video essays like this make me uncomfortable. I doubt I'd ever rewatch that movie again, or shows like The IT Crowd.
Yeah I'm glad I never liked that type of humor at all, as a kid I always frowned at the adults that somehow liked it
Defintley we must end transphopia
During childhood I had a much different reaction than that of my family & friends. I felt empathy for the woman, despite them being the painted villain of the movie. As for Ace's reaction, I was quite upset. So much so, I had a strong disagreeing argument later to my parents, were I was invalidated by my perspectives. Thirdly I felt quite aroused. In later years braught my curiosity to one of my close friends.
From the time I had seen the film (4th grade), a trend took hold more strongly with each year I questioned myself, my sexuality, others, society & most of all what its like to be transgender.
Looking back I was able to piece it all together, however it also made me a lot more reluctant to come out as trans. I waited much longer than I should have. Was terrified by societies ignorance, hate & the fear of losing everything & never finding love after transition.
Luckily I found my happiness & have never been so loved. Being true to who I am has been the greatest thing I ever done. Its sad I lived in fear & confusion for so long until I did transition.
I'm relieved that films & media of the past are now shown for what they are. That nuance & education is more available. And that more recently representation & attitudes are shifting to have better quality media & film that depicts LGBTQ that younger generations don't have to grow up the same as I had.
"1933's Mrs. Doubtfire"
Look, I know the '90s feel like forever ago but you don't have to go THAT far.
Ever since I read Dead Blondes and Bad Mothers, the case of Ed Gein just infuriates me all the more. He never “wanted to be a woman”,that was completely made up by the press for shock value and yet we had to endure decades of “evil crossdressing serial killers” supposedly based on him. Not to mention his poor mother, who had her character smeared based on no evidence at all because some Freudian psychologist already decided it must be so. It’s so virulently transphobic, homophobic, and misogynistic, and it’s all based on outright lies.
Yeah, given the reactionary beliefs of his mother (she allegedly died from a stroke after seeing a woman wearing pants), if there's any movie monster Ed Gein shares similarity with, it's Jason Vorhees
The press made up Gein's "wanted to be a woman" for shock value??? Like killing and butchering women wasn't shocking enough for a 1950s audience?? The Freudian psychologist was wrong about his mother, too?! Dammmmmmn. Fifties journalism and psychiatry sucked!!
No doubt, 'man wants to be a woman' was a much easier sell than 'man is sexually aroused by wearing the skin of dead women' in the papers of that time.
@@UnfortunatelyTheHunger That’s the thing though, there is absolutely zero proof that she was an abusive, controlling, or religiously fanatical mother. The majority of it was either grossly exaggerated or straight up lies told after her death to make her into a Freudian caricature. (Including the idea that she died when she saw a woman wearing pants).
There is, however, plenty of evidence of Ed Gein’s father abusing her and his sons. But it rarely gets mentioned unless it’s to demonize her. (Ie she was a domineering woman for being the breadwinner because he refused to work, and he only beat her to “defend” himself from her nagging.)
Yes, but also all bigotry is actually based on lies. No variety of phobe has research or evidence to substantiate their batshit beliefs.
Trans portrayals in the 90s were almost uniformly terrible. It wasn't until "Hedwig and the Angry Inch" that I saw a trans woman character shown in a positive light. (Hedwig was portrayed by a drag queen, but trans in the story.)
My favorite movie!!!
John Cameron Mitchell said that Hedwig isn't a trans narrative. Remember that Hedwig chose to go through with the procedure out of desperation and not because of a sense of identity.
Out of curiosity, is Bernadette from the adventures Priscilla, Queen of the desert good or nah?
Orlando (1992) is a positive portrayal of transition, albeit the transition itself is more of a fantastical/magical one-off event.
@@annodomini2012 it has been ages since I read Orlando, but the term non-binary applies there so strongly.
I’m so tired of seeing Trans women portrayed as predators and evil. I’m also really tired of struggle films, especially when they become misery porn.
I love The Crying Game and the sympathetic portrayal of Dil but I hate that it spawned the tired trope of vomiting after “the reveal”
Yeah it's hortible how transgender woman get treated
@@kaiyodei WARNING: MUCHO TEXT INBOUND
coming from a trans woman deep and vocal within her community, they dont exist, but i do see where youre coming from when more "extreme" members of our community lash out (understandably) at the existence of potential bigotry in the form of exclusionary relationships. that harmful stereotype of fellow trans people forcing everyone to date us exists to villainize trans women as being manipulative and vile women.
we call superstraights "bigots" because, half the time, superstraights lean towards the anti-lgbtq stance (others lean more heavily on the lgb cult status of "lets exclude trans people from everything and lets be terfs" rhetoric, which is all but helpful to trans people). its all about respect however. if a superstraight rejects a trans woman without ending up being an asshole about the rejection, that assholish feeling usually wont be reciprocated-- understandably, most people take offense to someone trying to tell them their bodies are essentially too "ugly" to love, which is sorta what SSs are implying.
that being said, t4ts are not much better. while trans people restricting their dating circles to other trans people makes sense on paper, in actuality its just reverse-ss. the truth is, everyone's dating pools should be inclusive to all genders of one's sexuality. trans women are women, and if you decide not to date one then just tell that woman that shes not your type. making a huge parade about how her genitalia isnt really a woman's and making her feel bad about HERSELF and HER body very much drives ordinary people to lash out and decry these people as bigoted or crude people.
what im trying to say is this-- i will respect people carrying out superstraight tendencies without hesitation (same as ill do for t4t people) if those acting under superstraight/t4t relationships arent complete assholes about what is essentially a preference and getting defensive about it to the point of essentially shaming someone for not being part of that preference. doesnt that make sense?
@@kaiyodei you say that as if that's a majority of trans women.
Aaaaargh, "The Danish Girl"! I hate that movie with a passion, it's an ahistorical piece of bullcrap and an insult to the memory of Lili Elbe and her wife Gerda Wegener! Gerda was bisexual and super-supportive of Lili's transition, she drew lesbian erotica and Lili was one of her models for that! Neither she nor Lili were the weepy, maudlin messes that the film depicts them as, and the only reason their marriage was annulled is that at the time, two women could not be legally married to each other, if they had had the legal option, they would've remained married. Gerda didn't desert Lili like the film depicts, transitioning didn't make Lili unlovable or undesirable for Gerda. The film is some bullshitty "tragic transsexual tale of woe", because that's what latently transphonic cis folk want to see: The spectacle of trans suffering. Eff that isht!
To be fair, that was back in 2015, right when trans visibility for the vast majority of people was just beginning (that was the same year Caitlyn Jenner came out), so I would at least hope that cis audiences have evolved beyond that in the last 6 years, but perhaps not
@@andreadamon2197 Whut? Trans people have been visible for *much* longer than that! The transition of Christine Jorgensen in the 1950s was international news, both Lou Reed and David Bowie at the height of their fame in the 1960s/70s openly dated trans women, Wendy Carlos was literally world-famous in the 1970s and 80s, the 1980s began with "Dressed to Kill" and ended with "The Silence of the Lambs". Trans people have been *visible* for a damned long time, it's just that it took the world so effing long to treat us like human beings...
@@gozerthegozarian9500 But the thing was that either those were stories that either flew under people’s radars or were quickly forgotten with time or people just saw those people as flukes/tabloid sensationalism. It wasn’t until Caitlyn Jenner that the subject of trans people and their rights came and stuck to the minds of most people (at least in the U.S). The average person didn’t think about or talk about trans people for an extensive period of time until then. I don’t know why it didn’t stick with people in those earlier events, but it didn’t
@@andreadamon2197 The average person *still* doesn't think or talk about trans issues, that's why transphobes like Abigail Shrier and JKR and their ilk have such an easy time peddling their lies, which can be traced back to Janice Raymond's "The Transsexual Empire", published in 1979 and considered something of a "classic". And now Raymond's spiritual descendants claim that trans ness was invented in 2014 on tumblr or something along those lines. The problem is that the whole "trans issue" has been talked about virtually exclusively from a cis perspective and that trans people have been denied a voice in the conversation about our own damned lives and rights. What has changed is that now we've started making our own voices heard, that's why there is so much violent pushback against us now: We are no longer reduced to being objects of the cis gaze, but autonomous subjects with agency and voices of our own.
@@gozerthegozarian9500 Doesn’t the fact that a lot of people think that being transgender was invented in 2014 show that a lot of people (mostly older people) are just now grappling with the concept of trans people? I agree with you that there is a backlash about the fact that we’re (yes, I’m trans) not taking being disregarded and oppressed 2nd-class citizens anymore. The fact that trans people are finally getting rights is making people angry, just like with gay, poc, and women’s rights
God, days ago I saw Ace Ventura 1 and I didn't remember that scene where Einhorn got exposed and assaulted (yes, getting someone nude to prove your point IS sexual assault :/ I'm sure there were other ways to prove it, there are *always* other ways).
That scene where Ventura finds out made me annoyed as hell but *that scene* where policemen find out, not only made me annoyed but full on EMOTIONAL. Damn, I'm a closeted NB and I was watching with my family for Jim Carrey nostalgia but goddamn, I hold back my tears to not alarm them and get questioned as to why I was crying.
That scene was heartbreaking and I can't imagine those trans teenagers/adults seeing this movie in that time and not only get heartbroken but seeing people around them not Criticizing it and even loving it :/
I once knew a trans person who said I was a baby for disliking being fetishized for being gay and ftm
I asked her if she was okay with being fetishized and she said "yes I take it as a compliment"
Smdh
It depends on how one is fetishized. Being called slurs such as "tr***y," "s**-m***e," or "s***y," etc., stereotyped in movies or porn, or murdered is unacceptable. Receiving fellatio, spanking, shibari, femdom requests, or foot worship from cis men, instead of vomiting is the right kind of fetishism. So is being told 3 times daily that I'm beautiful, having an Englishman in a tuxedo kiss my hand. I like being called "ma'am" and treated like a lady--especially by handsome men in uniform, such as cops, firefighters and paramedics! Being hit on by rock musicians is very flattering, too! Having cis and trans women freak dance me and make out with me on the dance floor in nightclubs is awesome!! I get more dates that way!
@@darlalathan6143 I do not know if this comment was meant ironically or not, but if it was sincere, then thank you, from a horny cis bisexual male
I just recently watched Lindsay Ellis's video on Pop Culture Transphobia, so I'm looking forward to this video and a different perspective on what looks like a similar topic!
I just came down to the comments to also reccomended that essay, it goes more in-depth in regards to cinema history and is excellent for anyone that wants to further explore the stuff in this video. I'm glad to see Jessie making a vid on the same subject though. :)
He didn't sleep with Einhorn, he slept with the cis love interest. All that panic was over a kiss and some forward flirting and petting that he was definitely into at the time.
there could be a whole video on the genderfluidity of bugs bunny
I think it could specifically be linked to Bugs being influenced by trickster gods like Loki.
I mean, as a genderfluid person, I never really identified with Bugs Bunny growing up. Like, it always came across to me as a trick, a deception, and playing up the other character's lack of awareness of his real gender for laughs.
Like, don't get me wrong, he's probably the best portrayal of that sort. But I feel like the fluidity of the gender of the character is more in how he's perceived, not how he *is.* And given that it was usually played for deception, I never really found him relatable.
No matter what gender I feel, I feel it authentically. I don't really have a choice, my brain won't let me ignore it. I've spent much of my life not being believed when I'm telling the truth as I know it (especially in my childhood), and that was *before* I figured out my gender identity. The last thing I want is people not believing me when I say what my gender is, or dismissing me when I tell them it's shifted. I just want people accepting me for me.
I recognize how problematic the depiction of Norman Bates was and how terrible Hitchcock was in general but I still think Psycho is a cinematic masterpiece. idk if that's bad lol
I think beyond its poor representation, it is an excellent film, and that the two things are not at all mutually exclusive. :)
@@sapphichazard yeah, ambivalence :o
I can't recommend Council of Geek's perspective on this as a supplement to Jessie's work here... they really nail the "an instance isn't the problem, the pattern is" when it comes to beloved films like Psycho (I think the video's title is literally "The Problem is the Pattern").
Also, as someone else said, great film / bad representation aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
we can enjoy media and simultaneously acknowledge it's problematic aspects, doesn't have to be one or the other
@@whysocurious7366 I'm not ambivalent at all, though. I think that the technical quality of the film and the social importance of the film are two very different topics, which while they are closely related, are not directly related. Being socially poor doesn't make a film bad. It just makes it unwise to watch uncritically.
I'm an aspiring screenwriter, and my fave genre is horror. And I'd just like you to know that I'm currently working on a script where the "final girl" in the movie is actually a trans woman. And she is open about that. It's not something I'm gonna reveal at the end. It will be known from the start of the movie, and it will be no big deal. If I'm lucky, maybe I'll have created a trans scream queen :D
That sounds awesome, I wish you the best with your writing! ^ - ^
As a writer and a transwoman, I am always thinking about how I would portray trans women in TV and movies. What I keep coming up with are characters whose identities are not played as an issue, or someone whose POV ocassionally gives them understanding others do not have.
We don't want a Trans character, but a character who happens to be Trans
I love when you go into Hollywood history, even briefly - and your viewpoint is so important, we need it!!
Hope you do more about the representation of transgender people
In entertainment and what you would like to see in future
Thanks Jessie,
Rest and get better💘🥰
Honestly, I'd rather have someone be outright transphobic over being fetishised
I think "none of the above" is the safest choice.
You know where you stand with haters. Folks with fetishes...maybe not so much.
This was very interesting and I feel better informed about media and representation. I hadn't heard the term "cisgender gaze" before though I already knew of the "male gaze" and this absolutely makes sense. I'm gonna share this with my friends
The Crying Game could have broke the mold, if they hadn't included the scene of him freaking out when he saw her naked. Besides that scene, it is a movie that doesn't focus on Dil's transition or oppression and it is mostly a quirky romance with some IRA provided drama in the main plot.
At least he stayed with her.
Weirdly enough there's a scene in Penny Dreadful which riffs on that scene where Dil reveals her genitalia. The man whose sleeping with her doesn't mind. I'm not saying it's positive representation, it still has fetish issues, but it's better. That being said I'd love trans narratives to have different problems that have nothing to do with being trans, love, money etc.
Sense8 is a good one, probably because the actor and the director were both trans.
the transphobia in Ace Ventura is absolutely appalling... i remember as a child being fully "in line" with how i was "supposed" to react and not thinking anything bad of it.... and now.... it is extremely disheartening
i had the opposite reaction, i felt sorry for her and then i thought there was something wrong with my reaction because i knew it clearly wasn't how the movie wanted me to feel, like why do they keep harassing that poor woman and calling her a man? (and this was kinda before i really thought about transgender people at all) that bit where he pulls her pants down is kinda heartbreaking
@@austinfernando8406 are you a trans woman too? =)
I also reacted how I was "meant" to at the time, but now, I'm just deeply disappointed in Jim Carey.
Ace Ventura was made in the EARLY 2000's of course it's gonna have some outdated ideals that are offensive. You can't expect old media like that or even older to align with your "new modern ideals".
I'd like to mention that J. Michael Straczynski suggested Nomi be trans in Sense 8 (which made Lana, iirc, incredible happy because it wasn't her suggesting it and she had felt she always needed to be the one to do so). He then stepped aside and made room for trans people to inform and develop the character.
I think this is a great example of allyship. A cis man using his privilege to say "maybe the character should be trans", using the moment when his voice would be heard to say that; and then, importantly, making room for trans people.
And the guy has wanted to put trans folks in media for so long, he was trying to do it back in the 90s in Babylon 5. He has a track record of being an ally.
That's amazing. I've always looked up to Straczynski, and knowing he's an ally is just so reassuring.
*Sees image of Ace Ventura* Oh f**k, here we go.....
It's interesting to me that even in all those examples where they're "tricking" people, it's almost always done for noble reasons. Yet we're still portrayed as the "villain."
I think this is the reason why, for me, characters like Mrs. Doubtfire, Bugs Bunny, or the protagonists from Some Like It Hot always read better than other characters. They all had good (or semi-good) reasons for crossdressing, so it came across as non-malicious (at least to my young, egg self).
But then you remember all the other representations and the villain light gets easier to explain. The former is wholesome crossdressing. The latter is mental sickness. Not a great light to be cast in, and those impressions die hard.
Not to mention, you have to choose between "they're not actually trans" or "trans people are dangerous and disturbed" as takeaways from these villainous characters, and those aren't great choices. One invalidates us, the other demonizes us.
Another really good video, one thing though; when in Europe best not to do the putting finger between nose and lips, from my experience that's usually what people do when impersonating Hitler so at best people might think you were calling them a Nazi or at worst think you were a Nazi.
That aside, thank you for providing such wonderful work and hope your giraffe is helping you feel better.
Can second this, definitely the first thing that came to my mind too, being from fancy, fancy Europe. Yes, it does mean that you are pretending to have a moustache, it just tends to be one specific moustache. One moustache to rule them all, you could say.
@@orsolyafekete7485 Thanks, I'm from one of the less fancy bits of Europe, glad it wasn't just me losing my senses.
I, too, thought, where is Jessie going with this Hitler Bit? 😂
@@edspace. Oh, I was just parroting Jessie with that one, I'm also DEFINITELY from the less fancy part (read: the transphobic part) (wait, that doesn't really narrow it down, does it?) (now I'm sad)
@@orsolyafekete7485 Its okay, I read a study that said most people in the UK are in favour of trans rights, progress is being made, slowly but surely.
You should watch La Veneno, about the biography of Cristina Ortiz, a trans icon in Spain, written by another trans woman that actually knew her, with trans actreces for all the trans characters (which are a lot) its great and subtitled on HBO max
It's not heavy on the coming out, transition and opression stuff, it's just, her, living her life
I'm trans myself but I will admit I have a a soft spot for Jame Gumb.
The Silence of the Lambs is one of my favorite books and he's a homicidal little guy who heard about gender dysphoria from a trans woman and was like "ah this is why I hate myself so much." Jame just said if my mom never loved me I'll become the mom. The best Hannibal antagonist on virtue of being an absolute idiot alone.
Any way super excited for the video!
I saw the movie for the first time a couple of weeks ago. I think that it was very artful of the movie makers to drop the seed into the public's minds that most trans people are ordinary non-violent people who just want to get on with their lives. Nowadays it would be like "duh" but the movie was released at a time where the public attitude towards trans people was about them "being monsters". I think it was pretty clever of them to hook a big audience in with a seemingly mainstream plot and then slip them some new ideas to chew on.
Full clarity, I am a poc but not Black, but I feel like the video could benefit from a content warning for Black face.
I feel as a trans person I was prepared to engage in a video labeled the "cisgender gaze" and expect discussions of transphobia.
However I can imagine that for folks who have been more impacted by Black face, suddenly being confronted with it without the option of self preparation might be distressing.
I'd place Black viewers thoughts on this first and foremost, though. Because as I said I am not Black.
13:44 Daniela Vega is a great actress and actually is trans, stop reducing her to "that trans woman from A Fantastic Woman" and comparing her great performance to that of the garbage caricature Eddie Redmayne did
I can’t believe never noticed the pride flags over the shelves before, I love them!
🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈
Transgender people rarely gets happy endings in the screens (same as in real life), so that I can only remmeber the Canadian 1999 sapphic movie called "Better Than Chocolate" in which a trans-sapphic gets together with her butch crush, and the German 2011 gay movie called "Romeos" in which a gay transgender guy gets together with his crush, but by the way, those movies even though very ahead of their times still flawed in some ways, like both casting cisgender men to play transgender people.
The term cisgender gaze was new to me, but makes so much sense now that I watched this video. I like to think that there is progress happening, and more trans actors are growing into the kind of celebrity status that they can dictate how they want to be seen on film. The change is slow, but it's happening.
I'm so sorry about your sinus infection! Have you tried a Neti pot? It sometimes does wonders by rinsing the sinuses. Get well soon!
Me and my little brother are dying to watch this video… our transphobic parents didn’t teach us anything about this, so here we are to learn!
Thank you so much, Jessie for the videos!
I have noticed similar tropes in the depiction of werewolves in fiction. As a subset of shapeshifters, who are often queer coded and traditionally cast as villains, one can easily read them as trans allegories. Such narratives will focus on the pain of the transformation, typically brought on by a curse, which turns them into dangerous predators. Since werewolves are viewed as unnatural abominations, they have to be killed by the story's end. Certain stories from folklore have cast werewolves as violent criminals who use their alternate identity to deceive others, to get away with their crimes. All of this should sound familiar. In more recent stories though, when werewolves aren't meant to be the targets of hate or pity, they're the objects of fetishization. I need not name the book and film franchise in question. While these stories may humanize said characters more, the narrative still views them from an outsider's perspective, valuing them only for their physical attractiveness.
Given the potential for the aforementioned allegory, I think we need more stories depicting werewolves as people, told from their perspective. Instead of showing them as individuals in conflict with their inner nature (i.e. the humans vs. nature archetype) I would show them existing peacefully as their true nature, and place the burden on society to change the way it treats them. Stories that cast werewolves as shapeshifter druids, and protectors of the natural world, would be a good place to start.
Oh, and speaking of fetishization, that whole "alpha" thing as a thing for werewolves...I am sick to death of it. I mean, the idea of an alpha wolf was debunked *by the researcher who discovered it,* but that book didn't sell as well, so we are stuck with alphas as a cultural concept. One often used to dismiss toxic behaviour, or even glorify it.
But yeah, there were a lot of toxic traits to the werewolves in [series unmentioned]. Someone should do a video about that. I'd definitely watch it.
No mention of the trans woman scene in Crocodile Dundee? BLASPHEMY! I can't watch that movie anymore because of that scene. Paul Hogan walks up to a brunette woman and grabs her by the crotch. Everyone laughs. I actually felt bad for the woman in that scene. WHAT THE FUCK WAS WRONG WITH PAST PEOPLE AND WHY? FUCK THE PAST FOR BEING SO BACKWARD!
Then there's Three Generations. I can't watch that movie either because they cast a cis actress as a trans boy. Why couldn't they get an actual trans guy to do the main role?
There's also the anime Gankutsuou. Peppo was handled well except for one episode where Albert yelled, "SHE'S A BOY?"; that was one of the earlier episodes. I wanted to see her and Albert get together in the end. I won't spoil any details, though.
Norman Bates and Buffalo Bill are not trans.
That's what I understood... that they were based on Ed Gein who had a seriously f*kd childhood because of an alcoholic father and fanatically religious mother, on whom he became mentally dependant. After she died he seemed to sink into some sort of fantasy world about her and that manifested as the wearing women skin as clothes behaviour.... Not trans
As always, this is an interesting and important video! I haven't heard the term 'cisgender gaze' before, despite being nonbinary, aromantic and asexual and knowing many of the community's terms.
I recall having a conversation with my brother about the old trickster gods. They're not so much malicious as just the symbol people used for the uncertain vagaries of the world. The trickster gods didn't just upset physical things, they transgressed social boundaries... and the result was usually rewarded. These included Hermes, Loki, and Anansi... and Anansi was the model for Br'er Rabbit, who was of course the source for Bugs Bunny.
In that sense, Bugs Bunny could be viewed as one of the tricksters of mythology, his purpose is to upset the natural order of things (hence a rabbit casually walking up to a hunter and asking "Eh, what's up, doc?" was once the height of comedy), and putting on dresses and seducing the hunter is part of that.
Loki wasn't necessarily revered (one of their offspring was Odin's 8-legged horse Sleipnir, for whom Loki was the mother, but another was Fenrir, the monstrous wolf, for whom Loki was the father), but was respected. However, Anansi definitely was respected and adored. He didn't always come out on top (the tar baby story is one example of Anansi/Brother Rabbit getting his just desserts), but his cleverness usually netted him rewards, even as he transgressed boundaries.
(Also, the target of our discussion was over whether Deadpool is a modern trickster who likewise transgresses gender and sexual boundaries)
I don't know if any of these characters should be counted as trans... Anansi, I think, is fairly universally male. Loki is definitely fluid in every way, and I think Bugs flirts with transgression as much as was permissible in cartoons in the 50s and 60s.
How do they fit in with the cis gaze? I really don't know. I think there's a serious fascination with people who move beyond the norms, the binaries and boundaries we accept. I kind of suspect that where we now punish, we once mystified and ... *possibly* ... revered.
As an aside, I found it interesting that when you were describing "the male gaze" in cinema, you showed an image of James Stewart's character from Rear Window watching Raymond Burr's character. Why I find that interesting is because biographies on Burr either painted him as a straight man (which he almost certainly wasn't) or as exclusively homosexual, which then depicts his marriage and step-son as a "beard". I think this severely mischaracterizes Burr, as either-or. But we won't ever conclusively know.
Great video!
Would love to see a collab with Lindsay Ellis and/or Contrapoints
You and me both.
I'd watch such a video if Jessie made one. She and ContraPoints both put in that GOAT work.
Awesome points, and I am definitely doubly appreciative of hearing commentary on trans representation in cinema from the perspective of an actual trans person (I know I know, but those poor cis cinema snobs will just have to learn to share).
So, aside from Pose, which I watched and absolutely loved, what shows or movies would you recommend as good representation for transgender people? Are there any that would be appropriate for children and young teenagers?
There should be a word for when someone misses the point as hard as you did
They literally say Buffalo bill and Norman bates aren’t trans in the the movies
For anyone who comes from a people that has been colonized, do you guys feel that the way that Ted Lasso sort of jokes about colonization is problematic or do you think they address it appropriately? Not related to the video, it’s just because you mentioned Ted Lasso at the beginning and then my ADHD took over
I have to emphasize here that SPLIT is a prime example of ableism in horror media, it plays on the idea that people with DID/OSDD are inherently dangerous and that their alters (or "personalities") are evil or like demons.
Ace Ventura was one of the biggest disappointments of my life. It was presented me as a fun light hearted comedy, and it was, until it wasn't anymore and it started being about harassing a person to make the audience laugh. And one of the things that bothers me most is that I've heard good people say that they watched it as kids and they thought it was really funny. This shows how we as a society normalized laughing at people as long as they are "others".
And the problem is that people tend to have this attitude of considering minorities "others" in all kinds of enviroments, so often we hear cishets talk about queer issues as an opinion to be had or a political stance rather than a matter of basic respect towards someone's identity. I don't know how there still are teachers who see fit to debate this stuff in class just assuming that all their students are straight, I can speak from personal experience (as I think many can) saying that its not fun to hear your classmates debate on how many rights you should have.
So, bottom line, society is fuc*ed and capitalism is gonna kill us all.
(Also, love you, Jessie, you're amazing
Another insightful and valuable resource.
2:23 Must.. resist.. impulse.. to point out.. misspelling.
Also: Amazing background.
* checks timestamp *
"Grammer"
Oh no.
This was an interesting and informative video on a very difficult subject.
I notice some people are arguing that Buffalo Bill is technically not trans.
Yeah, it might be true that Thomas Harris became intentionally vague on the subject in interviews when the novel was adapted to film. However I don't think transphobia cares about whatever supposed nuance Harris and the film makers were going for.
As a Horror fan, you become painfully aware of how problematic the genre can be in regards to LGBT+ issues. A lot of older films I like have antagonists that are essentially coded queer or even trans. It has improved somewhat over the years but there is still far to go.
I'm glad you're feeling better, it's terrifying to have any kind of respiratory sickness right now!
I am non-binary and totally comfortable with being "Othered", but that seems to be more of a personal feeling for me that I never fully fit in with others and am okay with that. I understand why it is invalidating for others, but I am most comfortable NOT fitting in, somehow.
It is probably better to be othered as non-binary rather than pushed into one of the binary categories. Still at this point the idea of being seen as just considered a part of everyone else might seem a bit off.
That likely speaks more to your strength of character than anything else, really.
Not the point, but it makes me a little sad that The Danish Girl completely erased Gerde Wegener's queerness (she was a lesbian who drew lesbian erotica in addition to her stunning portraits of women) and changed the dynamic of her relationship to Lili Elbe ("poor suffering wife" as opposed to "bestie and sister from another mister").
Don’t die lady! Get some rest and get better. 😤💙 Don’t make me relieve you of duty, commander!
I watched this at 50% speed and it was still too fast. Please, take a breath Jessie.
I'm watching deep space 9 from the start, and i see how Dax can be coded as trans, and I enjoy it very much
How no ones gender identity charges they ain’t someone changing from male to female or vice versa it’s more like genetic memory
I definitely would not make a case for Bugs Bunny being any flavor of Trans as he doesn't wear women's clothes out of need or feeling as its right but indeed to trick people and I would think that would land right into the category Transgender people are trying to get away from? As for Ace Ventura, Ray Finkel wasn't Transgender he just did the sex change to kill Dan Marino after he fumbled the winning goal. As for arguing that cinema can accurately portray something so complex I definitely disagree with that period as a person who has autism I will never see a perfect representation of my Autism and most of the time I get told the reps of Autism I love are wrong in some way. Like I actually see a LOT of myself in Sheldon Cooper yet people say he's a sterotype. I totally agree we need more Representation all people do, but ever expecting a movie to deliver a fully nuanced take is silly, a show maybe but a 2 hour movie? Nope.
Also I thought the Patricia from Split was a bit of a stretch considering DID is a way different bird of a feather. I never saw that as trans but once again as Kevin's fractured sense of self from childhood abuse.
19:06 I do need it to be known that I am fantastical, otherworldly, and different, but that is because I am _me_ not because I am trans. Please do spare the regular and mundane trans folks from being stereotyped against my marvelous peculiarities, thank you.
I'm still waiting for a movie featuring a transgendered character that isnt tragically sad and has a happy ending. I can only think of one. "Boy meets Girl". I thougjt that movie was real sweet. I feel like films with that narrative would help a lot more than the severely tragic ones.
Ok...I've got the story. I may just write the screenplay myself. A guy in High School has a gay friend that lives across the street. The gay friend is bullied of course throughout high school and the main character protects him cause he's a nice guy. The main character leaves and joins the military, goes to war and comes home for his 10 year class reunion. His high school friend has transitioned to female. They spend time together and fall in love. Of course there are a few problems along the way but eventually it works out. What do you think? Good story or not?
@@unclecrusty9 I'm down! That sounds like a nice feel good movie.
I recently rewatched Silence of the Lambs and I found it interesting that the moral framework that the film presents, which is reinforced by its aesthetic, tries very hard to normalize (and romanticize) a white cis male agenda in portraying Hannibal "the Cannibal" Lecter as an eccentric, albeit misguided romantic idealist, while gently suggesting through film's "villain" that their transgender identity is a product of mental disease.
What I can't decide is whether the film is transphobic or just conceptually flawed due to the prevalent anachronistic attitudes of its time.
Why not both?
I'd lean more towards the latter, given Clarissa's statement that "transsexuals tend to be very passive" and her explanation that Buffalo Bill doesn't fit that psychological model. The book makes it more explicit (and unmissable), but many who watched the movie never remember that line (I seem to be the only one). And Buffalo Bill fits so neatly into the pre-existing transphobic tropes (especially given the framing around the character and shot choice) that it can't seem to help being transphobic.
I'm not saying it can't be intentional, but if it was, why mention the whole "passive" thing? It's not like they lifted that line from the book verbatim. Someone intentionally adapted that point (covered by an entire scene in the book) into a line of dialogue. Possibly to try and mitigate any backlash against the trans community, but if so, it frickin' failed. Outweighed by the framing in the rest of the film, really.
So, the script-writer probably didn't intend it to work out that way, and the director at best didn't highlight it enough for the line to land. Really, the director's the big unknown here. If there's intentionality in this portrayal, it's likely there.
"I'm not entirely sure why I'm talking to a giraffe"
that GOT me 🤣🤣🤣
This video really opens up new doors for me. Maybe because I am cis. Like I get the male gaze and it’s a thing and it’s not always good but I just have so many questions about this topic now! Anyways Jessie, thanks for making me think! You’re so good!
As a trans (gay, even!) man who used to identify as a lesbian, the L word's portrayal of trans masculinity set me back a decade.
Oof, yeah, that sucks. Sorry to hear about that. Though I'm genderfluid, I can relate.
Also, I gotta wonder how many lesbians watched that show and thought that's what trans men are like. Then again, his story arc kinda reads like it was written by a TERF.
Great video!! Also a common trope that you can see in transition narratives that is very indicative of how much they centre the cis gaze is how often the drama of this stories (as is the case in The Danish Girl) focuses on how transition is hard for the cis people around the trans person.
A movie I really liked was Boy Meets Girl (2014) (FYI I am Cis). The main story is about Ricky (a transwoman) realizing she also likes girls after meeting another woman. The movie is about this relationship, her relationship with her male best friend, and her finding the courage to take a huge step professionally.
It does have flashbacks of her as a kid and teen (already presenting as a girl) and shows some issues she has with her body and sort of has an oppression narrative with her mother, though only talked about as her mother isn't in the movie. There's also some physical violence from a transphobic male character (not her best friend), but it doesn't go too far. Also TW for mentions of suicide.
Michelle Hendley (a trans actress) plays Ricky and if I remember correctly she did have some say in the writing or at least gave her opinions.
I could totally feel the Giraffe off screen getting you through the intro. They're a good AD, you should hire 'em.
I agree, I've worked with them before, they were a distinct pleasure to work with. Just check in with them from time to time, they tend to spend a lot of time with their head in the clouds.
I am making a short film about nonbinary identity and I'm worried it's sort of a transition film 😕 but I am nonbinary myself. I am focusing mostly on internal feelings but it's hard not to use the mirror/reflection recourse to get the audience to understand it. However the transition process is not the focus on the film as it actually happens very quickly, more the coming to terms with it.
I think it important to bring up an old TVTropes motto: tropes are not bad, and tropes are not good. It's how they're used that matters most. An individual use of a trope can be good or bad, depending on how it's used and the context you're judging it from. But the trope *itself* isn't good or bad.
I think approaching it from your authentic perspective gives you the best chance of averting the cis gaze. Though it's probably not the worst idea in the world to give cis people a perspective into the non-binary world that they can relate to. Threading that needle could be tricky, but I think it can be done. At the very least, I'd rather you try and fail than a cis person try and fail.
thank you Jessie, hope you're better or will be very soon! 💜
Interesting topic!
I've always had a problem with Buffalo Bill being included in lists like these because the audience is told by Hannibal Lechter that Buffalo Bill is NOT Trans "but he thinks he is". I know there is all sorts of slippery sloping going on here, and none of that matters when we talk about the reaction of the audience to Bill as a Trans person. Maybe I'm splitting hairs that you didn't want to spend time with in this video, in which case, just ignore this comment.
There are both parallels and intersections with the Disabled community here. “Fantastic” = inspiration porn & oppression well …. Same #DiversityisHUMAN #Authenticrepresentationmatters🙌♿️🙏🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️🙌
Opinion on JLongbone's stream of your video. Warning, lots of bad faith takes.
I love your content and energy! As a non-binary person, it's great to see somebody pointing out how we are still excluded and mystified by society.
What is normalized in media will be normalized on the street. Representation matters
I’m always taken aback and giggle whenever I hear your actual name. My favorite uncle is my Uncle Jesse, but Jesse is his middle name. He’s named after my grandfather so his real first name is Earl. Which is what his wife calls him. And the Jessie Earl I watch on UA-cam and the Earl Jesse I’ve known my whole life couldn’t be more different from each other, which amuses me. Interesting video, I really dig your more serious/professional style videos like this. Great job.
My first depicition of a harmful trans sterotype was from a british TV show called "Romanoff" where a transwoman murders her half brother to get revenge on her abusive stepmother. But though she's painted as tragic, the brother was innocent and she used all the negative tricks more harmful media presents. Using trans as deception and using it to kill him. And worst of all, my father who showed it to me... he thought it was positive depiction.
i still like ms. doubtfire through a trans lens as an adult for a few reasons; for one she is an older woman, not sexualized as trans women often are, and a kind (if silly) caregiver. perfectly safe for children to be around, in contrast of how trans people are often portrayed. but most importantly (to me at least) at the end of the movie she is seen making a mr. rogers type TV show for kids in her costume. i think that's beautiful and a very nice ending that doesnt involve r. williams shedding this 'character' and throwing her to the side! though she's more of a drag queen than a woman... i would love it if there was actually a show like hers irl!
In Silence of the Lambs they clearly say Buffalo Bill isn't actually trans. Bill wants to transform, be someone else than himself, so he comes up with the idea of a woman suit so he can transform into something else than himself (probable escapism from his trauma). So while it's not technically a portrayal of a trans woman it can come across as such but those not listening. Personally, I think it would've been good if there was a trans woman in the book and film to show the readers and watchers that trans women are just normal people and that what Bill is doing is in no way connected to being trans.
Nice job
THough the only issue i have is even mentioning buffalo bill. Lecter even tells the audience that Bill isnt trans, rather just copying his friend, the head in a jar.
I feel like some things are trying, but missed the mark. And some things are a victim of their time And some things are just trash, like Ace Ventura. After what you described here, I am glad I never watched it. Like that sounds horrific, not "funny".
❤ Hope you are feeling better soon! But in the meantime, this is the kind of video I can send to people I know who need some dots connected, so it is much appreciated.
Shame you didn't get to go to the conference and hope you feel better
just a comment- there was a trans woman actress in the danish girl- lili's doctor.
Sorry you’ve been feeling poorly. 😞 I hope you’re feeling better soon. Thank you for producing some content for us. Bless you. ❤️
Is it bad the first time I heard the word Male Gaze. I thought someone said Male Gays? I was so confused on the first time.
I'm transgender non binray and bisexual 🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈
I know that feel of living on yogurt. Hope you continue to feel better!
I hope that giraffe doesn't start talking/whispering to you about crypto. :-P
Get well soon, Jessie!
Ace Ventura will always be a classic, but saying it had problematic views on trans women is an understatement. Like WOW.
What about cisgender women gaze? Have you thought of that?
You are an adorable nerd, Jessie. Keep doing your thing, girl.
That intro! You are a very brave soul!