Using CLICK/BACKING TRACKS Live, Yay or Nay? Here's my experience.
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- Опубліковано 24 жов 2022
- Using CLICK/BACKING TRACKS Live, Yay or Nay? Here's my experience.
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Number one rule of having a band. Always have a backup plan. If you rely on a backing track, always be able to go without. If you normally use a click track for effects or timing, always practice without. Stuff happens. Sometimes equipment gets fried or dies. If you use tapes or cds for your intros, those could get destroyed. The fans came to see a show. Play them a show.
Amen
A band like Nine Inch Nails or Falling In Reverse can't just go without. The sin isn't using backing tracks. The sin is not having backup files with everything you need. They should have been able to buy brand new laptops and download everything they need on the new laptops. Eddie Trunk would jump off a bridge if he found out what bands use backing tracks, lol Although, I think he is full of shit anyways. He's just making waves for the clout.
you say that like all bands are pros signed into labels and have major events coming. the majority of bands are college kids who practice all day every day and gig at small open venues usually unpaid just offered free beers and food. when you are a pro, you should be able to play WITHOUT backing tracks. this is how Dream Theater and the likes objectively disappoint in their live shows... backing tracks galore.
lol that's not how it works in 2023 bud
@@IbanezNinja lol at you for paying to see people who can't even play their own music
There’s one element of click tracks that people haven’t been mentioning. It’s not always about backing tracks to help out the sound. Sometimes bands use laptops and click tracks to sync the music to the light show. Sometimes it’s for midi switching for guitar effects units. There are a whole bunch of reasons why things for the show might be stored on laptops that aren’t simply so the singer has a vocal guide track or something.
Midi never belonged in guitar rigs. Use you feet to switch like we did in the 90’s
@@Ottophil use whatever works for you but plenty of bands use digital effects instead of foot pedals
In this instance, I think click tracks are fine because bands like Muse have insane light shows that would not work if it wasn’t for midi signaling getting it in time. They also use it to change guitar effects so they don’t have to worry about running to their pedalboard, but they also have the option to turn pedals on and off if they want to add more.
@@Ottophil what an absolutely tone-deaf thing to say, with all due respect. Midi absolutely belongs in guitar rigs. How can you switch from a distorted raw setting to a clean with compression, chorus and delay seamlessly? I'm talking bout real pedals here, no multifx units, just separate analog FX. Do you have 3 feet? is your schlong that long??? The only term that comes to me when seeing this kind of attitude is retrograde. We've made so many great advances in technology to serve musicians and make our performances better and smoother, only for some people to say "you have to use a 1990's recto with the right tubes and tap with your frickin feet every 30 seconds risking going out of time or even not being able to be comfortable performing if you also sing.
I say all this shit but in reality I've used my feet to switch and analog pedals my whole career. But seeing my peers use midi based systems makes me envious of the tonal possibilities and overall comodity. Come on you can't see any lack of integrity in that bro haha
I’ve been wtf last 10yrs seeing everyone do it. Now it’s wtf I’m considering it. The generation nowadays that part does not matter they are ok with it, like the Dj thing.
Most modern shows use extensive backing tracks that include click track, soundscapes, sequenced synths, string arrangements, backing vocals and information for any lights and projections are all synced. So, yes, if the show is running all of that from a laptop then yes, it’s an integral part of the performance.
I don't use any backing tracks and I have preformed at some of the biggest venues all through Europe , as only talentless frauds do that , If me or a member of my back up band fucks up we make a show of it , its something called improvising , What do you think people did back in the 50's ? , if someone in my back up band even suggests using a back dub I will fire them even if its in the middle of a frozen tundra and make em find their own way home at their own expense . A live show is just that preforming live anything else is a crime.
I wish I could pay someone just to set it all up for me 🤓
I have played in both bands with and without backing tracks. It's a hell of a lot more fun and rewarding playing without tracks. Sometimes when playing with backings I would feel like a fraud afterwards or think that if it sounded exactly like the album, the people might as well just listen to the album at home. Eventually, I did rework the backings so they would have different tempos to the album and natural speed ups, also adding or taking away some sounds or changing them and adding extended outros or breakdowns for some songs. It was quite a nice compromise in the end. One really good benefit of using tracks is that you can time your set very accurately, festivals and some venues are very strict about set lengths
📌The main attraction of hearing live music is seeing the band generate their own tempo and their own sound. Watching a drummer keep his tempo is part of the enjoyment, just like watching your favorite basketball players display their skills. I am absolutely against backing tracks. Music has really hit rock bottom when a professional band cancels a show because they can't play live.
As a band you have to write what ever the hell you want to write or you are risking burnout. If that includes orchestral parts, synths, choirs etc then so be it. However it is logistically and financially impossible for pretty much any band to tour with this many live musicians. Even if the band could do it a lot of venues wont be able to deal with that many musicians. On top of that ticket prices are already shooting through the roof right now. If you would tour with all these live musicians your ticket sales would take a major hit and you would actually loose money. In that case there is only one solution which is using tracks
I saw Kiss during the "Creatures" tour. There was a dude playing a keyboard hidden behind the amps.
I’m the drummer for a local classic rock cover band. We don’t use tracks at all. I sample and sounds, effects or intros from my multipad either by hand or foot, sometimes both. And yes, sometimes I miss some. I only use a click in just my ears to set the initial tempo. I cut it once we’re a few measures into the song. I don’t think tracks are cheating at all, I just prefer to trigger everything. Keeps me honest. 😃
For some live music is all about the show, and whatever tools a band can use to improve the fan experience, I am all for it
i was a touring guitarist for a hard rock band in 2007-2010 and they were doing this way back then and even THEN it was nothing new. it was pretty much widely accepted that every band we were contemporaries with were doing the exact same thing. on that level, there is very limited room for slip-up. our entire show was clicked out, the drummer controlled it all so we could hold if need be. instruments and vocals were live, but 808s and rap beats and some of the extreme BG vox were on the track. this is old news and eddie trunk, honestly, should know that
We just saw The Who live. They had a full orchestra to cover parts of Tommy, Quadraphenia, and other songs. I wouldn’t have been upset for them to use a backing track, but was elated at live musicians. I think whatever helps them put on their best performance is fine.
I saw this tour earlier this year. Might have been the most amazing live sound ever. The mix was superb, I could hear every bit of the orchestra along with the band.
Which is interesting because with Baba O’Riley and Eminence Front use a backing track of the arpeggiated synth. I assume they were one of the first major bands to use a track.
I think it’s OK if they use a click to stay in time with synchronized lighting or video on stage, or some minor tracks to augment the sound for effects etc. or an intro on a song. But where I draw the line is where they’re using tracks to completely replace live musicians and they’re just pretending to play live.
“Click” tracks and “backing” tracks aren’t technically the same thing. Click tracks are only heard by the band (predominantly) and backing tracks are heard by the audience.
Examples Of Backing Tracks In Music (According To Wikipedia)
-- Playback of pre-recorded backing vocals (reducing the number of touring backup vocalists) -- Rihanna, Mariah Carey, The Pussycat Dolls, KISS
-- Playback of additional or selected lead vocals -- Journey, Justin Bieber, Roger Waters, Beyoncé, Rammstein, Taylor Swift, Weezer, Selena Gomez
-- Lip syncing to pre-recorded lead vocal tracks -- Milli Vanilli, Britney Spears
-- Playback of additional vocals along with some additional instrumentation -- Black Veil Brides, Mötley Crüe, Skillet
-- Playback of keyboards -- The Who, Madonna, Muse, U2, Panic! at the Disco, "Weird Al" Yankovic
-- Playback of large portions of the backing music -- Buckethead, Pet Shop Boys, The Wiggles, Twenty One Pilots, Coldplay, Fall Out Boy
-- Total playback of backing music -- The Pussycat Dolls, Ariana Grande, Selena Gomez, Britney Spears, Village People
As a drummer that has played with a click for years... After a while you don't even notice it... it actually frees you up because you don't have to concentrate on keeping time.... although I could just as easily play without a click.
Another great vid Mike! Thanks for always making these enjoyable and entertaining videos
Nice sensible explanation of the pros and cons, thanks, Mike!
Be a well rounded musician and play live or with backing tracks! Its all good!
Love your vids and they helped inspire me to play guitar thanks
Another con with backing tracks: The constant hi-hat clicking when the drums are supposed to drop out.
I don't mind using backing tracks for effects, but I feel like in my band the leader just wants to use them because everyone else does rather than the songs actually needing it. We have a pretty big band (usually 6-8 people depending on who's available), and a lot of the backing tracks cover parts that are already being played (or could just be played) by someone live... Like we'll have gang vocals from the album during parts where we already have 5 people singing.
love your vids man and keep up the good work!
The only time I had to deal with a click track was when I played in a band with a drummer who could do absolutely anything but keep time. Even his click track didn’t help.
some beginner drummers can be improved a lot wit that trick.
i still have my MD4 multi track mini disc recorder. love it.
I'm just gonna say that it's awesome that the Heart tribute band you're in plays Bad Animals. One of my favorites from the 80s.
Thanks for the review. I don't know much about technical side of live performances, I actually heard about click for the first time on the example of Polyphia's drummer problem, when click stopped working and his drum tech had to find a solution fast so he tapped the drummer's leg throughout the show
for me click tracks are perfect when you rehearse, to improve the timing precision of the band overall (and especially of the drummer): you get tighter after a few weeks when it seems it kills the mood of the band, you stop even noticing it and flow in a right timing. Live, unless you need special FX you cannot reproduce otherwise, I would not use it for rock, blues, jazz and any other music style relying on interplay. For electronic, techno, industrial, etc. of course it is indispensable.
I use backing tracks because I'm a solo artist. I have used them in a band situation, it was an 80s style pop band with loads of electronic percussion and synth/sequencers so didn't really have a choice. Worked for the style. I've been in bands without them, but found that a lot of people don't take the time to learn their parts or the song sequence. This put so much pressure on my having to que certain band members all the time my own performance suffered. It really put me off playing with bands again tbh
I don't blame ya.
VERY good information and video, thank you !
My guitar teacher from a few years ago played in a metalband and they used clicktracks. Just to keep their music tight which suited them. Wouldn't work with a bluesband, but it worked for them. And they had some songs that were only with a click for half the song. The rest of the song could be improvised, and be more spontaneous.
When I was younger, I used to dislike all backing tracks. Or rather I disliked bands making soundscapes on their albums they couldn't reproduce live without using tracks... I tried to keep things as stripped down as possible in my own bands to not have to rely on anything extra. These days I just don't care anymore, I make music on my own and probably will never again play it live, so I go crazy with adding tons of stuff that would require a symphonic orchestra's worth of musicians to do live. In the unlikely situation I do end up playing live, I'll just pick one of the guitar tracks to play and do vocals, and use backing tracks for everything else.
I do think that story of the band canceling a show because their computer went to a different city is pretty damn weird though. I don't know them so I don't know what kind of lineup they have, but unless they use backing tracks for one or more of the core instruments, I don't see why they couldn't have played a show without the tracks. Sure it would have sounded a bit different from what they usually do, but so what?
I've always agreed with Alice in Chains' philosophy; don't record anything in the studio that you can't do live. Then again, Chris Cornell will always be my favorite singer,but since no one in the band could sing the harmonies he recorded, Soundgarden's live shows always sounded thinner to me.
why should bands restrict themselves creatively like that? The problem here is using backing tracks the way Motley Crue are using them. For example if you're in a rock band abd you write a song that has a synth section but you don't normally have a synth player its fine to use a backing track for that since it makes more sense logistically and financially to just have it be something you press play with for a one off then trying to audition an keyboard player for one song. The same goes for orchestral bits in songs to since it's extremely impractical to bring along a full orchestra for anyone that isn't the who. The problem lies with how Motley Crue are using them where people pay good money to seem them play and sing and they're just basically miming their live shows.
Great video! Just thought I'd offer my 2 cents from the drummer perspective as someone who uses click all of the time & backing tracks frequently. First thing I'd say is, it's possible to be tied to a click without killing the vibe/groove - but it takes a lot of practice. It's taken me years to navigate the tug of war between the band and the click while making the grooves feel good. It can be done...just takes time. Another helpful trick I've learned from so many rehearsal situations is when to BAIL OUT of the click. I start every song with click so we get off on the right foot, then I know when to reach over to shut it off. That method keeps us on track AND lets us organically vibe.
Good points and insight.
I always envisioned a function of a DAW or a backing track that would frame the tempo based on what the drummer is doing... kind of like the reverse of quantization - or reframing electronic or programmed parts to sound more human - instead of the drummer playing to a grid the grid plays to the drummer. Sort of like a 'tap tempo' loosely connected to the high hat or something - I dunno I'm not a programmer.
A screen with a tiny moving dot that moves to side to side (visual oscillator) is also useful, if you want your ears clean of anything that isn't part of the music. Needs to be in the periphery of your vision always, though.
Backups people, backups! Your iPad, phone, cloud storage, etc etc. Never leave it up to someone else to be in charge of something like that, esp if it's part of your show.
You are totally right when it comes to the tracks keeping the flow of the show going. I also played in a dance/top 40 style cover band for a while, and getting regular well paying gigs hinges ENTIRELY on your ability to keep people on the dance floor. Our drummer would get the count offs and click in his mix, and the timing and transition between songs was just as important as the songs themselves. A few seconds too long between songs and the dance floor clears. People forget that live music is entertainment, and for certain gigs that level of production is absolutely necessary.
Your amazing thanks for the video
I watched a metal band, Suite Clarity, play with a backing track, looks like the guitar player is also the bass player, so there is a backing track for the bass when they play live. They have some other bits that wouldn't necessarily have to be part of a backing track because they could just be triggered by the drummer when it's time for them to play and probably wouldn't matter if they were playing a bit fast or a bit slow that day.
As a fan they had a good performance, so I have no complaints.
Click tracks can keep mediocre drummers in line. Power interruptions can really torpedo a performance. I saw Harry Connick Jr on Letterman one night and during his song he jumped over to a Hammond organ and apparently it had stalled - the power had been cut and the tone generator quit spinning. Now you can’t just flip a switch on a Hammond - you have to hold the “Start” switch for about eight seconds until the speed stabilizes and then hold the “Run” switch too for about five seconds then release the “Start” switch and hope that the drive motor has synced up to 60 hertz... it’s a procedure. So he half-panicked for a second and almost reached for the switches and then just ran back to the piano and vamped on it for the remainder of his solo time. So yeah - duct tape is for taping your power connects together too. 👍
Great video man. We still don't know your name? Loved the references to the early days of using tracks. So, I have played in several bands using tracks over the last decade or so and yes, they're pretty indispensable to jamming live nowadays but all the drawbacks you mentioned are spot on - there's always a sacrifice and a risk if the band is not cohesive to keep it together. You and Rick have covered this well from both sides. As a drummer I will say this: play sober and look like you're having fun so the backing tracks dont over compensate for the band. I enjoy playing with click and I sing quite a bit as well so I dont really hear it cos I'm just sitting as natural as I can without focusing on either the beat, click or vocal..but some drummers I suppose dont enjoy having all that responsibility I think it inadvertently gives modern drummers more props for the huge work ethic involved. But for jazz or blues I wouldn't use a click(obviously).
In one of his books, MOBY tells the story about setting up his primitive keyboard/drum machine/sequencer and loading the discs taking 5 minutes to be prepared for his first big gig and the power went out and on and he had to stand in front of the crowd loading 5 minutes worth of discs before he could perform.
One time I had my Digital Piano tuned down -5 so the teacher could sing 'The Greatest Love Of All' while I played it at PTA night. I did not realize a kid had unplugged and replugged the keyboard so I started playing it at actual pitch and she shot me daggers with her eyes the entire time. Had to apologies profusely.
Clicks are all right by me. So many bands use them. What ever works.
Looooove that guitar!!!! I need to get more guitars!
Some songs need it and some don't. We've recently expanded our setlist to the 80s when drum machines were popular. It's difficult to get the right vibe without using a rigid drum track with synths (with or without you, U2; Shout, Tears for Fears). But of course, when we play Hendrix or Zeppelin we don't use tracks.
The trick to backing tracks/click tracks and the like is to either have enough money to pay someone who knows electronics well to do the research, etc into the best ways to do what you're aiming to get or to know it yourself. Spend loads of time working out the best and most reliable ways *that fit with your requirements* and you'll eventually figure out something that works.
In my experience it's best if you simply use a bog standard laptop that plays pre-recorded FLAC files and leave the fancy equipment at home for when you make those files. Bonus is you can hook it up to a projector, RGB lighting on your amps, etc and have it all synced up to your music, plus the nature of laptops means they're basically immune to power glitches that can force-restart most digital electronics due to the battery acting as a sort of UPS.
Saw fear factory live and their laptop or whatever was playing sound effects cooked in the 40 degree Aussie sun. Burton said "fukin technology". They played the songs with just guitar bass and drums and they still fukin nailed it and sounded killer. Good band first. Sound effects second.
This is kinda where my band is at. We haven't been able to find a reliable second guitar player but without the melodies the songs lose a lot of the feeling and thickness. Personally I'd rather have a second guitar player and just run without backing tracks but since we can't find anyone that would vibe with us, doesn't have an ego or is just a straight up pain to work with we're looking at doing backing tracks.
To me it has it's ups and downs. To me playing without backing tracks leaves the more raw and untethered feeling to the music and you don't have to worry about issues if electronicsmess up. On the other hand with backing tracks we could have the second guitar playing the simple rhythm parts so I can do the melodies, have guitars playing behind when I solo and even time our light show to the tempo so we sont have to have a separate person running the lights. I guess we will just see where it goes and how it feels. Personally I'm more about the feel and crowd interaction but the backing track might be fun... only time will tell I guess lol!!
I once auditioned for Skitzo Fonik - obviously didn't get the gig but that was my first and only experience with backing tracks. It would've been fun!
For me, it just depends on the artist.
The expectations are different depending on what kind of band it is, how many members there are, or even just how popular they are.
If I went and saw a small 3 or 4 piece band and they did a Styx or Kansas song with a backing track for certain parts, swapping instruments as they went to play whatever was most important, I wouldn't mind.
A one-man band sort of deal can be really cool even with several tracks if the main appeal is still in front of your eyes. Something where they're moving between instruments a bunch is super impressive, but I don't even mind if a guy just plays guitar and sings with the rest of the band on a track (as long as the guitar part they're playing isn't in the track).
I saw Michael Angelo Batio live at a guitar show, and he was great.
I saw Natewantstobattle when he didn't have a band yet, and it was way less great. There were guitars on stage but they were being mimed and the tracks had the parts included.
Never EVER mime!
A small band using a track for one or 2 parts doesn't bother me, unless they're clearly rich and could easily hire a guest performer or another member for the live iteration of the band. I've noticed that Green Day and Aerosmith both have had live members who aren't really part of the band off the stage, but who are very helpful for the show. In Aerosmith's case, I really prefer when that guy's clearly visible to when they hide him in the wings.
Maybe these guys are officially in now, but Journey and Styx both hired new members recently to do extra parts (extra keyboards/vocal and 3rd guitarist respectively).
I vastly prefer this approach to tracks, but in those same cases, it would probably be fine to use tracks for those extra parts, especially if they weren't as popular as they are.
One example of even a justifiable use of tracks in a rock band feeling kinda soulless compared to the rest of the show is with Van Halen's keyboard songs. In the Van Hagar era, Eddie would play keys on those songs, with Sammy covering guitar (sometimes anyway). The songs from 1984, Jump specifically, never really got that treatment, and obviously once Sammy was out, Eddie couldn't do keyboard anymore anyway. So, Jump and occasionally others used tracks (or maybe someone backstage). Since that band had the expectation of being such a live powerhouse, that just felt weird, even though most people wouldn't have expected anything different for those songs.
I'm less picky about click tracks, but I'm not a drummer. I will always prefer a completely live show, but others will prefer something more secure and I get that.
I like the idea of live live bands....like if someone is onstage they are playing and or singing and that’s all you hear. Realistic maybe not. But I follow adam lambert. His studio recordings are mostly just him on vocals and backing vocals. So he can’t do things the same live as recordings. It’s interesting seeing what he does. He grew up singing live in theatre and now tours with queen.......it could be an interesting conversation to have with him. His previous album was geared to being able to do it all live before covid hit and canned all the touring.
Here is the story I've heard regarding Milli Vanilli from somebody in their organization. They had different vocal phrases mapped to certain zones of the keyboard. That way they had more flexibility in delivering vocals.
I believe they had two keyboards running those parts in parallel. The keys were in road cases, which protected from damage but not temperature. They were supposed to get them out a few hours before show time. They didn't. The guys were instructed that if there were ever a problem to run off stage.
The keyboard malfunctioned, they ran off stage and the second one booted up and stuck.
Okay... puhleeeeze upload the full vid of your metal band!! That looked awesome!
ua-cam.com/video/gxzCzkC9LnU/v-deo.html
If the drummer has a in ear with a click that's cool
It's easy to get jacked up for a show and play a song way faster on accident
An in ear click can help a band stay tight and deliver a solid show
Tbh When I saw the live Performance of Meshuggah and bleed I would not begrudge them having a backing beat to help, knowing how hard it is....I imagine playing very hard technical stuff could potentially shorten the career
That's a cool Ernie ball... I've thought about getting me one.
Depends on the style of the band also gig.
You have all these big artist using tracks with killer musicians.
You just have to have a back up, its like having a second guitar or a spare drumhead incase it breaks on a gig.
Regarding the drinking, we should be able to control this cause it is a job after all, you wont get drunk at your 9 - 5 job.
I've been using tracks for 10 years and had no issue.
I do have a back up which is my ipad incase shit happens, so its important to always have a backup whether its guitar strings or a spare set of drums sticks.
Bands like Toto, Metallica, Bruno Mars use tracks live with backing vocals, even Queen used it for Bohemian Rhapsody cause they were just a 4 piece band, sometimes a keyboard player that plays behind the scene.
I'm going to fill in for our bass player at church this Sunday and one thing I'm kinda nervous about is we use click tracks and I've never actually played to one before. Also I'm definitely not a pro bassist lol. I do play guitar and I used to do the cajon for youth group at church. Hopeing this goes well lol.
You’ll be fine man, even if the click feels weird you can still just listen to the drummer. It might feel a bit weird but as long as you focus on keeping together with the kick drum it’ll go great.
Usually you'll have an AVIOM / personal mixer in front of you, so you can tailor mix the entire band to suit your needs. If you've ever messed with a DAW for more than an hour, you'll be familiar
You’ll do great bud, maybe start practicing since you’ve got a few days. It’ll probably become really easy since you can keep a beat.
Just pray god will fix it right? I don’t know how churches work
Hi, thank you for sharing your experience with us!
Would you recommend any App or System to interact with the crowd while playing with backing track? Something like "Everybody sing!" Trial and error like.. with cues, not fixed bares... You really would help me with your answer. Bye
Awesome 👍
I 100% agree with the whole thing about bands sounding slightly faster without click track compared to with backing tracks watch machine head live at dynamo open air 1995 the songs are played slightly faster than the album and compare it to the reunion tour from a couple of years ago it's the same tempo as the album
I have used backing tracks for years to play Black Metal. Mainly due to just getting fed up with drummers who end up quitting for inane (and usually personal non-musical) reasons after you have spend months or years gelling with them.
It was always a concern about tracks skipping. I began with CD-Rs for these and never had a problem with skipping because I always insisted on using a CDJ player (i.e. a DJ grade CD player) to spin them from. And if there was a DJ at the show who could spin them for us so much the better. However, the *fear* that the CD might skip always remained.
That was totally dealt with when I got my first Mp3 player, although in this case the one I had could also play wave files, which definitely sound better for backing tracks. Solid state, no moving parts. And will a fully charged battery no worries about the player losing power during a show.
The acceptance of using the tracks for this genre was a bit varied. The sound engineers who mixed us always like it, but it made winning over some audiences much harder. One thing that turned out to be important though: Drums on the track were *reasonably* well accepted, other instruments there as well were not so much (rhythm guitars & backing vox being the worst). So I pretty much ended up just running the tracks as pure drum tracks.
Playing WITH the click is more pleasing for the listeners. And as a drummer it gives me all kinds of freedom
OK, so where I sit on this... the laptop isn't just for the click; it can also be handling the software that syncs the lightshow to elements of the performance (like having a light sync with the kick drum or whatever) and so on.
On that basis, what I find mind blowing is why you wouldn't - as a professional touring band - have spares in case they go missing. You're probably lugging half a dozen extra guitars and basses, pedals and modellers, drum heads and all that noise about. But an extra 3lb laptop, that someone in the band can carry on their person all the time is a step too far with redundancy, when it's so critical to the show going ahead that you *cannot* perform without it, is somehow not a thing that a single person thought would be a good idea?
I'm in a metal band and we've tried playing to a click live a couple of times but it just didn't feel good. We're very tight without one anyway. I personally feel like you lose some of that "live energy" using a click, things become a bit too robotic. I don't begrudge any band for using one, though. But it is noticeable when you look at a band and see a drummer looks very zoned in and disconnected from the show while playing. I'm with you in that the cons outweigh the pros IMO.
I like how there still are prominent metal bands out there who do not play to a click live. Lamb of God being one of those. Joe Bad from Fit for an Autopsy confirmed it on a livestream back in summer when he filled on a date Randy was out sick.
As a mediocre player playing with a better drummer or bassist I noticed how great is was that in some situations he could make up my mistakes. Not sure if that's a pro, but made me feel more awesome!
St. Vincent Annie Clark-Music man is awesome .
If you are a solo artist like NIN, you either use backing tracks or have to hire people who may not be able to play your music correctly. Trent tends to hire musicians because he can afford it, but people just starting out would use backing tracks.
More footage of you in your metal band!!! 😎🤘🏾
Hey Mike, did you ever play with Jazz groups? I am into jazz standards lately, learning mostly by myself from internet. Would be nice if you did 1 or 2 video on few jazz related techniques and such. Thanks!
Up until the latter 80's-'90s drummers had a recognisable sound because they all FELT different.
10 of them would sound slightly different playing Back In Black.
With a click, they'd sound almost the same.
That said: Some guys can pull it off with a click, but it's certainly not an easy task for most.
I've been seriously thinking about the 3 pick up version St. Vincent guitar like yours. What's your take? I haven't been able to find one to play anywhere around me and I've never bought a guitar without playing it first.
I already have 2 music man guitars, a majesty and a jp, but watching your video as you're holding that St. Vincent is looking more interesting as I sit here. (Like I really need another $$$ guitar)... hmmm.
I’ve been in a band for seven months now that uses backing tracks. Played from an iPad using software for percussion loops, background vocals and synth stuff. What drives me crazy, even though I have my own mini mixer in control of my quick volume, I have gotten off the track a few times over these months and had to hit stop while playing live. From there your confidence can be shot, not to mention disappointing looks from your band mates. I have found in venues where I don’t have monitors out in the front blaring back at me I can handle the show fine and stay on the click.
Another tough part for me was that mix balance of enough backing track competing with click volume.. I would have the click blaring loud with the track lower, resulting in my ears ringing all night long. There are tons of pros and cons to playing with a click live , The audience absolutely loving the authentic sound of a song being heard, the dance floor packed. But you are restricted to the track and can’t improvise life very much. God for bid you get off the track and have to stop it. It’s not easy and only the best drummers can really do it.
So many musicians say they don’t like backing tracks. Yet so many use them still.
Hi I had question. If your online guitar course is used as a medium to judge a person's progress , according to you when should one switch to an electric guitar if they have started to learn on an acoustic .
If backing tracks are used for some instrument that you don't have a live player for, like synth (as it's traditionally used), nobody cares. The problem is when you have people pretending to play instruments on stage when their part is actually pre-recorded. There are many bands actually doing this, and that's why they have to cancel a show if their "laptop" doesn't show up. This is a sign of absolute lack of talent. You should be able to play with or without your backing tracks. If you can't, you should seek another line of work, because this one isn't for you.
Which bands do this? Out of curiosity.
This is a f***ing clown opinion. Is it you, Sebastian Bach?!
@@TylerGuitar5617 Roger Waters has pre-recorded vocals for about half the songs on his shows nowadays. It’s really shameful to see and I don’t think anyone should pretend to play/sing when they aren’t.
Besides for pop music which has always been a karaoke tape-really bad local ones. I have seen bands where people are basically pretending to play instruments and in reality just playing a tape. I don’t think the guitar or bass were actually plugged into anything. It’s really embarrassing what some people will do just for attention in this day and age. The drummer was playing something but kept stopping and the tape was much louder. When a lot of people who aren’t musicians see this sadly they rarely even notice the fakery. We live in a society with a lot of people used to being fooled. This kind of stuff is going on more and more and it’s getting worse!
@@benbeyer2451 totally against this practice, but considering how old roger is, I’m giving him a pass since it allows everyone to still hear him live. I did and it’s still an experience to be had, backing track or not.
Yay. They have their place
One word "Milli Vanilli" - Doh! you said this as I was typing. They have their use, but have been abused by artists who get lazy. Most people use them properly though.
My high school band played Bohemian Rhapsody once live with a Cassette Tape for the middle section. I would switch from guitar to bass back to guitar cause the bassist singer played the piano part. I think it went well, it was 35 years ago ! Yay for the backing tracks. But if you use your whole album as a backing track ..nay! I also had a guitarist that was too quick on the draw. Would screw up all our intros man cause nobody was ready and he didn't make eye contact. That band lasted 1 month. 2 rehearsals, 1 gig.
K.I.O.S! Keep it old skool!
I noticed in some korn rehearsal they have something that sounds almost like a police siren constantly looping. I'm really curious about that. You can hear it in some video KoRn Band Rehearsal #1 1996 Rare Footage
I can't believe this is actually up for discussion. There's been a lot of talk about this topic (much of it spurred on by Eddie Trunk, and kudos to him for pointing it out) and I am completely stunned by how many people just don't care if the band they are watching are really playing live or not. For me, if a band needs to use tracks to cover a keyboard part or some orchestration that they can't realistically bring to each show, I'm fine with that. What I'm not cool with AT ALL is any band that's using pre-recorded tracks for lead vocals or any of the main instrumentation. Some will say that some of these aging singers (Paul Stanley, for instance) should just get a pass because they're older and they should do whatever it takes to keep playing. I couldn't disagree more. Others throw stones at singers like Don Dokken (rightly so, he can't sing anymore and it's sad), but at least what you're hearing is the real deal. Same with Vince Neil. His voice is shot and he somehow can't even stay in tempo with the song anymore, but at least what you're hearing is Vince live (not the backing vocals...those have been tracks for decades). Why should we keep giving a pass to all these artists who aren't/can't really play?
Just done our first show as a blur tribute band. As a four piece we use backing for the brass and strings. Unfortunately our drummer lost signal for his click TWICE resulting in an absolute train wreck! so we're currently weighing up if we can afford to bring in keys 😂
I have been working on a project recently. and the only way I could even possibly do it, is with tracks.. I am one man but can play multiple instruments. I have been putting together a Online show utilizing backing tracks and Midi tracks to control Lighting, Patch changes on my Helix and anything else.. I would rather have a full band and just use some way to get sound effects where they need to be.. Bar bands really don't need backing tracks it's when you incorporate light shows and midi patch changes. nothing worse then seeing a light flash before the band arives at the part.
Click in a studio, absolutely, but live? Idk.. Never used one as a drummer, though I could've certainly used one after having a few too many drinks on a few occasions. 😅
AC/ DC would play slower after Bon Died...But it was so Solid it worked...
I have no issue with backing tracks for timing. Click trax or small parts that make no sense to hire another musician for as in a very notable keyboard intro in a band with no keys, I played in a two guitar rock band in the 80's and 90's. several actually and we were very good out covering keyboard parts with guitars. Some bands don't have two guitarists either.
Not to get off subject to much but I agree with you 100% about the Milli Vanilli incident, It was definitely Sabotaged.
Rick Beato did a video on this also today.
I mention that in this video.
There is a time and place for backing tracks. I know a guy who was running a cover band that spanned several genres. They wouldn't have been able to do what they did without tracks.
I'm inclined to say that it's not acceptable when you replace core instruments with a track.
What I heard: "So back when I first started playing live around 1815..." 😲
Click tracks make sense when you have lights and video that has to be synched to the performance. I don't mind backing tracks for what you can't do on stage, but everything else should be live.
I think if you are unable to play without your laptops, then you have crossed that line between "live" and "playback". If it is inconceivable to play without your computer, I think that it is a different dynamic than a truly live band. That said, I think it is just a part of live performances for certain music and genres. Pop music has been almost entirely playback for decades.
Thats not true at all. As a band you need to write the stuff you want to write otherwise you will just burn out. If that means having orchestral parts, synths, choirs etc in your music that have vital roles in your songs then so be it. You need those parts live. There is zero way around that. Your songs wont work otherwise. Touring with a full orchestra, synth player(s), choir etc is simply financially and logistically impossible for almost any band. And even if it was possible for you as a band a lot of the venues will simply not be able to do it logistically. At that point using tracks is the only solution
There is a broad spectrum of things being described as backing tracks. From simple metronome guidance to keep a drummer from playing at a ridiculous tempo all the way to full on lip syncing. I can tolerate metronome use or an occasional effect to create a noise that can’t be made organically on stage, but that is it. The web of tracks that are used to double, cover or replace instruments or vocals that are being played poorly on stage is a total no-go. Figure out how to do it live or don’t do it.
Can you explain exactly what a backing track is? It sounds like a lip sync for instruments, or more for keeping track of tempo?
None of them. A backing track provides extra instrumentation that you cant have played live for financial and/or logistical reasons. For example orchestral parts, synths, choir parts etc
🤘
The backing track argument is akin to analogue vs digital. Things have moved on so embrace it.
You're assuming I embraced digital. hehe.
Maybe i should make drumless instrumental backing tracks for my songs couse i can't find players to form a band to play my songs :D one man singing drummer show with guitar, piano and bass backing tracks. :DD I could have all the mellotrons, flutes and stuff going on there too! Maybe play those to my drum tempos first and then take out the drums so i can have the natural tempo there and play those back with my zoom r16
Use whatever you want. It's not my place to dictate how you should perform your music. I was in a hardcore punk band that used a drum machine. It was fun and different.
I wish I could say I was surprised by the narrow views of these comments…seems like we as musicians forget that most of our audience aren’t musicians and don’t have a clue about any of this…nor does the audience really care if you use a tube amp or a pedal…they care about seeing a great show, not the gear that goes into putting it on 🤷♂️
During this whole issue or conversation it's crazy to me how we give credit to backing tracks for stuff that you can easily do without them. Like you want your songs to be on tempo? Just write the tempos on the set list and the drummer can play their own click on a visual metronome at the right tempo for the first few bars and then shut it off and go from there. Don't want big breaks in between songs? Put one band member in charge of counting in the next song. The Ramones never had a break in their whole set because they were pros. Playing to tracks and a click is a vibe and works for certain songs but would most bands have to cancel show and give back that money because they didn't have them. No. Never.
To me, rock music is based on drums guitars and maybe keyboards. If your music can't be distilled down to those elements, then you are a performer or a personality, not a musician. I'm willing to bet if NIN or Ministry ran into this problem, they could still get up and put on a show with just amps and mic'd drums.
Different genres have different standards for what makes a live show. For pop music its more about the lights and choreography. Heck, Tupac doesn't even need to be alive for him to show up a Coachella! When it comes to live rock, you NEED that tangibility.
As a band you can never restrict your creativity or you will just burn out. That means if you want to write songs that have full orchestra, synth, choirs etc in them then you ABSOLUTELY SHOULD. However touring with a full orchestra etc is simply financially and logistically impossible for almost any band. And even if it was somehow possibe for you as a band a lot of the venues will not support that many musicians. That means you have got one solution which is using tracks.