Red Herrings Tips & Tricks | Writing Suspense
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- Опубліковано 30 лип 2024
- I'm discussing what a red herring is, why readers expect and like them, and some tips for writing them! Red herrings are a cornerstone of thrillers/suspense/mystery stories.
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Spoilers for Knives Out:
OKAY this isn’t a book but this is my favorite red herring:
We spend the whole movie believing Marta-our protagonist!-was the killer and we spend the whole movie hoping that no one uncovers the truth only to have it revealed that the murderer was actually the person who was “helping” her hide the truth....then only to find out that that was actually only attempted murder and that the victim committed suicide
YESSSSSSSS I absolutely loved the movie and was smiling like an idiot the whole time. I think my family thought I was crazy. I've read some comments on the movie were people said it was predictable but for me, I would have never suspected the grandson but I only figured it out towards the end when the building with the evidence of Martas evidence of innocence got burned down. amazing movie
This movie is pure art
@Valeria Pla for me the payoff wasn't satisfying bc the movie didn't leave enough clues early on that you could look back on and essentially see in a new, surprising light
I can give an example of a failed opportunity for a red herring. I read a fantasy/mystery book and one minor character had just a little too much emphasis on him. I just had the feeling that he "did it". I was really hoping to be surprised with some reveal later on, but no. I was right. That guy did it and I figured it out about halfway in. 🙁
Lisa Hicks It’s rather disappointing because you guessed it halfway through and it’s revealed as some big surprise. Like there’s was this tv show where you were supposed to try and figure out who “the bolt gun murderer” was and I guessed it before halfway into the series. Honestly I couldn’t figure out how they couldn’t piece it together.
It is a great example! I recall reading something like this myself! But funny thing, your writing style reads like a man's writing. I was surprised to see Lisa was your name. You gave me a red herring there, didn't you?👻♥️
Severus Snape in The Philosophers Stone. I was totally shocked at seeing Quirrel as the bad guy, LOL!....
I love how narrowed down this video is! It’s definitely a topic that need some separate love and shouldn’t be looked over. Thank you.
Am I the only one who first learned about the concept of a Red Herring as the bully character from "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo"?
No lol.
The Murder of Roger Ackroyd has to be one of my all time favorites--i was sure I had it figured out, until Christie revealed who it was and it blew my mind.
@@starlesscitiess that's so funny that you jokingly guessed right 😂 I had a guess, but I was totally wrong 😅
Alexa, thank you for posting tips for thrillers. Most author tubers write fantasy so it's harder to find tips geared toward what I write.
Of course! I'm enjoying it. As I get deeper into the genre as I read more and write more, it's fun to talk about these topics! I'm learning so much just editing my current thriller so definitely expect more from me :)
I'm currently writing a mystery with a tinge of horror, so this is very timely. Thanks!
Same! My story is *HEAVILY* inspired by giallo movies (just without the nudity) and I've included a few giallo staples like red herrings, brutal murders, the main character forgetting an important detail, killer wearing a black coat and hat, gloves, etc.
One of my favorites is from Agatha Christie (of course). I figured out that character A was acting oddly to cover up for character B who they wanted to protect. But character A was mistaken, it wasn't character B at all!
This moment that one regrets not being a thriller author... :D
The movie Knives Out has the biggest red herring surrounding the protag. Loved it! And I love this video, thanks :)
I had the same thought cross my mind! Literally, would never guess the red herring there, and especially when I was convinced the detective didn't know anything really. Daniel Craig turned out a genius! 👻♥️
I would like to hear some heist fundamemtals
Brandon Sanderson has some great videos on the heist story archetype :)
When you're pantsing your novel and you slowly start weaving in a special plot twist: *Oh yeah it's all coming together*
(I wish google allowed us to include images/memes in our comments ;-;)
Omg I need so much help with this right now. You are an angel in disguise, Alexa. 😁
7 1/2 Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle had SO MANY red herrings. You never knew which end was up.
I don't write or even read books like the one you're talking about, but I still like to watch your videos. I think that says a lot, keep them coming.
Spoilers for One of Us Is Lying
My favorite red herring is from this book. The story follows four characters that all believe the other three and other members of the town are the murderer of their classmate, but at the end of the story you find out it was a suicide
This is one of my favorites as well! The Perfectionists duology is another of my favorites.
That sounds like an annoying ending. Almost like it was all just a dream
@@forwhy8723 It depends on how it was approached, for sure
I personally really enjoyed the book. However there were more red herrings in the sequel ‘Two can keep a secret’
@@forwhy8723 I thought it was a good twist with the way it was done but I was able to figure it out before the end which was disappointing!
I love when books from other genres include these elements too, I'm writing a fantasy story but it does have a mystery in it with two red herrings. I'm happy to hear you say two or three red herrings can be more effective :)
What a coincidence! I've been recently thinking about writing a suspense/thriller story. Thanks for the videos, Alexa!
yay! just been waiting for your video!😱😱✌
Omg you're magic! I was literally looking for a video on this last week!
Aspiring writer here. Thank you for the advice! Much appreciated! (Uses one full sentence)
Currently writing a thriller mystery and all your craft videos are encouraging me that I’m doing things right and giving me ideas to make it even better. Thank you, Alexa!!
I’m writing my first novel, and I’m so glad I found your channel, I love your honesty and thank you for sharing your expertise. I have so much to think about now! I’ll say thank you again, because I’m British, thank you 🙏
So many ideas are running through my head about the Work In Process I am working on. Thank you for this video.
Your videos are game changer! Thank you for sharing the knowledge, have a nice week 👌🏻
Great video. Aw, yes - videos on any sort of plot twist present that issue - not really being able to give examples, without giving spoilers...! 😀💝
Your suggestions and insights are brilliant! I can't wait to apply some to my own story-bulding. I'm doing cozy mystery and I need all the help I can get! Thanks a million, Alexa!
Alexa! Thank you so much for this! My WIP is a YA Fantasy, but there is a mini-mystery in the first half involving a betrayal. I knew I wanted to have two main suspects, with one being a Red Herring, but wasn't sure how to go about it. Something about the way you explained this clicked in my mind. I just figured out exactly how I want it to go and I love it so much more. Thank you!
you know what should be written? Someone gets murdered at a butler convention...and a butler did it! But which one??
If the victim is a butler it could be suicide!
@lostinabooKCase and @easymanga31 do you mind if I borrow these ideas for my book?
@@stephaniemknickrehm8149 have at it and tell me when its published 😂
Thanks @lostinabooKCase
I love this video!! Thanks for making a video about writing mystery. Currently I'm editing my mystery book and so far I think I'm on right track. Lol. Please do more chats about mystery writing!
Really great video, very informative. Thank you Alexa!
Loved this!
A PERFECT and SO cool and well done Red Herring is in A Series of Unfortunate Events Book 6 the Erzats Elevator explaning what a red herring is using literally a Red Herring in the story like something really important and later well... is wasn't , is so absurd but so well done
Thank you so much. Really helpful.
Love your videos, very addictive.
Beautiful. As usual.
I've got two examples, one from something...that at least started intended as a mystery story, and one which isn't really a mystery story and I'm not even sure that this counts as a red herring which I won't go into because it'd take so long to explain you'd get bored before I got to the point.
The one I will mention though: A pair of detectives trying to get to the heart of a conspiracy who keep being warned somebody is orchestrating this whole plan. They only realise the true identity of the mastermind (someone who's been in close proximity to them this whole time) when one of their informants turns up dead having managed to scribble a message "He's...hiding...name" (I'm adding the dots because it's been partially torn up).
I love your videos! 😊 You are so inspiring
Something to definitely remember for a Red Herring is that you need to give your red herring a reason to act that way.
For example, i was watching El Internado and a new character was introduced halfway through the series in a series full of potentially evil characters. Then in the debut episode of him, he was smiling down at his son before his smile just went into a blank stare as if he had just killed someone and thought nothing of it.
It's later revealed that he's in fact one of the good characters and had nothing to hide but when you look back at the clip in which he looks suspicious, it's like the writers forgot about that part and didn't care.
In summary, explain the suspicious behavior of your red herring for it to make sense. Readers will always be looking back at the mini moments you gave in order to see if it makes sense.
Reminds me of Hans in Frozen, when he first met her, he looked at her so fondly. But his intentions were bad and there was no reason for him to look at her like that lol. Also remembered this other kdrama, “Mouse” (spoilers; it’s amazing and I wish I wasn’t spoiled but I still loved it so much. But as an example): the killer looks at people fondly and even cries when they’re alone. But they explain the reasoning of his reactions and “emotions” (ik this is like 3 years late lmao but i just had to say this haha)
@@Araartxd: Doesn’t matter how late you are. Discussions are always available to start :)
Also, exactly. Hans smiling in Frozen doesn’t make any sense considering he didn’t care about Anna at all. “If only there was someone out there who loved you.” You can say it was him devising a plan but that makes no sense with how his smile looked.
Writers need to write like a reader. A reader will view the story their reading as if it’s something happening in real life and was recorded in a book. Everything the writer writes that a character does should be something a real person does as well and be in line with their character. It is just bad writing to write a character acting suspicious and evil only to be good when they have absolutely no reason or explanation for their earlier behavior other than to make the audience suspect them. It’s okay to make good characters behave suspiciously but make sure that in hindsight, it makes (at least) reasonable sense for them to do that.
I'm working on a YA retelling and I am thinking about adding some mystery solving in it. So this video was *muah* perfection. ❤
Brilliant video.
Great topic! Dunno if this qualifies but I think my favorite red herring of all time is the Snape character arc in the Harry Potter series. It might be specific to cozy mysteries, but the first prime suspect is almost always the red herring... unless there's a third act twist which proves whatever exonerated them was a lie or something. That's what makes these types of books a favorite for me. As you mentioned, we love trying to figure it all out.
I’m early! I’m writing a murder mystery so this video came at a perfect time!
Thanks for the great video.
I’ve always said my job as a writer is to delightfully confound reader expectations. The readers want to be fooled, but in a way that doesn’t “cheat.”
I'm not really writing or wanting to write mystery, but this is some nice info to have for any author (or aspiring author) anyway I think!
i was writing a murder mystery story for Camp Nano and i finished it. And it's not really that much mystery... the killer is so easy to see through. He just reveals himself. There was no red herring. 10k words. It's essentially just a short story with a twist in the middle that the main character thinks is going to happen so he just waits for the killer to do his thing. I think it's okay : ) It's not the best thing i've written.
I'm working on another short story right now. And i hope to finish it before Camp ends : )
Hey! At least you wrote it :) And there's always the possibility that if you choose to edit it, you'll find that you dropped in details for you to create a red herring or new plot twists :) and if this was your first time writing a mystery, congratulations! Mysteries are HARD to write.
There's a book I'd like to eventually write (currently working on something else) where the antagonist has to appear to be a minor character. I just don't know how to do that properly and it's been really setting me back on this certain project.
I've never actually done what would be considered a true-blue mystery, but I plan to possibly do one someday. Recently, I wrote a fantasy/sci-fi mix with what I suppose could be a mystery element. A conspiracy that runs deep in world government among other things. The MC is a type of investigator and he begins to question who is genuine and who is not. Along the way, there are clues to the bigger picture as well as some foreshadowing.
But your right, it's not easy! Thanks for the advice. I mix in a lot of suspense in my stories, even though I haven't exactly stepped into the general fiction thriller genre yet.
Woahhhh I’ve never been so early!!
I am trying to make a plot for a delusional murder mystery for my college event. And it's basically a kind of online escape room where the participants have to break the codes and guess who was the murderer at the last. And I am really stuck at a particular point. I hope you can help me out with this
Great tips! I'll be adding this to my Writing Tips Reference playlist! 😊
Ironically, this video in itself turned out to be a red herring for me lol. When I saw the subtitle "Writing Suspense," I thought it meant this video was part of the Wordstock series hosted by StoryDTechtive. I highly recommend checking it out! It's a series that is bringing together AuthorTubers of all levels of experience, from unpublished to bestselling, self-pub and traditional, hobby writers to professional authors. So far, the topics of story openings, suspense, and tension have been covered. I'm on the list for a future video in the series, waiting for my topic assignment. It's going to be so much fun! My best friend/co-author did a video about suspense as well. I'm sure if you message StoryDTechtive, he'd be happy to add you to the list as well if you're interested. I for one would love to see you do it! 😁Meanwhile, thanks for this video! 😊
I though the same thing!
thank you. 👍🏾
This video is making me think about how I can strengthen the rising action in my novel to create a stronger climax and satisfying ending to my story by using red herrings. I know you mentioned that with red herrings you need to know the end of your story and then know other plausible answers, but do you have a system that helps you plan red herrings and how to incorporate them into your main plot?
You can discuss Snape, no spoiler there.
Murder on the Orient Express: they all did it. You could't pull that off every time but it was a great ending.
I like when the red herring is intrinsicly connected to the plot twist, like when it is a double twist, one you anticipated but it is actualy just a tiny piece of the real twist, but you where so focused on the first part that the second one blindsids you despite makeing sense when thinking back.
Or if the red herring is not directly connectet, but motiv wise works as a setup. Example, the redherrings conclusion was that two people are actualy the same person while the main plottwist is, that one person actualy is comprised of two people. That reads itself confusiong so to clarefy, one person has two identeties due to maskeing themselfs just haveing used a different name and no one new both and only got told from others about the identety they did not know . . . the other is that a set of twins or something like thet had presented themselfs as on person.
or something else that gives a direct or indirect clue towards the solution.
what gets me really really annoyed are redherrings, that have nothing to do with the plot, do not ad much in the character development department that indirectly aids the plot and are clearly just there to have a redherring for the redherrings sake . . .just to throw of the reader wth no mening, no finesse . . . it is lazy writeing only topped by the redherring beeing meaningless and unresolved . . .do not add stuff just to annoy your readers, make it matter in some way and if it is just themetic, something, everything is better than loose threads sticking out and takeing your readers attention away from the story you try to tell. it does not have to be obvious, but it has to add something.
maybe it explores biases the mc has and helps them to look past those which later gets integral to finding the right solution, maybe it explores a past trauma of them explaining why they acted a certein way in a previous scene . . . maybe it does not make much sense at fist, but gives context to an aspect of the main plottwist an a sneaky way where it is not absolutly needed, but adds another layer. Maybe it explains a bit about the villain and who they are be showing us a piece of their past like which people they grew up around, but one only gets that after finishing the story and thinking back . . . there are so many ways to make the redherrings matter to the story overall, so there is no excuse to throw random shit in there!
Video idea: Age demographics; how to determine them, and writing accordingly
Was gonna ask if you could give examples of red herrings being used as a cover for a huge secret for one of the Main characters. You probably answered it in the video, but are they basically small events that take place and never really give a reason? I am curious
knives out is the perfect example
Is there another way to make a red herring
Agatha Christy have so many of them and they are so confusing...
Second! 😁
Does Major Major Major Major qualify as a red herring?
My favorite red herring(s) are easily from PJO.
Spoiler.
Okay, book one the first red herring is Hades and the second is Ares. We think everything is okay until Luke tries to kill PJ. I watched the MOVIE and I was still surprised! (After seeing how different the two were I expected that the writers switched ares with Luke buuuut nOPE
An example of a novel with too many red herrings is The Girl on the Train. It felt like there were 30 different people who could have done it. By the time I was done reading about how many shitty people were in Megan's life I no longer cared who killed her. I also felt like the person it DID end up being was just stupid. It felt like the author got tied up in creating the red herrings and just phoned in the ending.
Although there have been good red herrings I'm completely annoyed at The Vanished for being a compete waste of time for red herrings and in the end no character development. Just a weak twist.