Infrared Panel Heaters in a Workshop?
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- Опубліковано 22 бер 2024
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Samcraft is a channel all about educating, inspiring, motivating, encouraging, and sharing the things I've learned since starting my own small business in 2018.
A real life review after using infrared panel heaters in my workshop for four months. How well do radiant electric heaters work? Are they worth it? Let's find out!
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During the 80’s, I was production manager for 4 years for a company that produces radiant heating panels. Most companies will be happy to assist you with the layout because they want you to be happy with the result. These products are capable of heating entire spaces, but really excel at spot heating also known as zone heating. Your review was accurate and honest.
Couple this type of heating with a presence sensor (like the Aqara FP2 or similar) and you could target based on your location in the shop - powering one instead of all 4.
Was thinking the same thing, but that does add cost. $67 for each sensor x 4, and they seem to be wide range presence sensors, so they may kick on even when he's not directly under the panels. This is already an expensive heating setup at $625 per panel, or $2500, so the sensors would add another $268. Wifi controlled outlets that could be controlled through the phone, or even simple switches or buttons at each station would probably be best so he can turn them on as needed. However, I imagine he's also using the heaters to slightly warm up the air temperature. When they shine on the floor, the floor absorbs the heat and slowly releases it into the air.
His workshop isn't really well setup for this type of heating. His stations are too far apart so a single panel can only be used for one station specifically. If multiple stations were in a row where his standing/seating positions were the same, then one panel could be wall mounted perpendicular to that line and heat all of the stations. It doesn't look like he has a lot of wall space to wall mount currently, so he'd need to re-organize his workshop. IMO, that should be fine, put the storage in a single spot away from the heating since he likely won't spend much time standing there. Group the work stations closer to each other.
Given how his space is currently setup, a mini-split heat pump system would probably work best, along with some circulation fans to blow the hot air down from the ceiling. A couple of smaller / cheaper panels where he spends most of his time sitting / standing for localized heating may work best, which would allow him to run the HVAC at a lower temp.
I'm a bit confounded on why these IR panels are so expensive. They seem to be cheaper in Europe.
@@updlate4756 One of those presence sensors can identify 3-4 people simultaneously and individually by location in the room to the nearest foot. One sensor, 4 heaters, switch on an off heaters based on location at the moment.
Thank you! I did not know about these things and I could use some. Heat without air movement is also great for artists who need a stable working temp.
I have similar IR panels in my shop except they're controlled with PIR motion sensors. Like you, I also have power routed through traditional thermostats, they're all set for 60F. So when I'm in front of a heater and it is less than 60 F, that specific heater turns on. When I walk away, that individual heater turns off after 3 minutes. If it's a warm day, they stay off. My IR heaters use quartz tubes with carbon fiber filaments since that type converts more of the power to IR and it is more focused.... and massively cheaper. I have one heater at nearly every stationary tool and bench.
Love your work shop layout, not cluttered, clean and neat.😊
I did a similar situation in my shop and, had a similar response to hot/cold areas. I built a simple Air Circulator (4" PVC pipe vertically mounted with 3 4" muffin fans to pull air from the ceiling level down to the floor). This brought heating my shop, from cold, from 4-5 hours down to 1 hour. That raises my base temperature of 45 Degrees to 65 degrees - including bringing all my woodworking machines up at the same time.
Since heat rises why not place them on a wall? Is that not recommended
Love your videos and enjoy watching them. May the lord bless and protect you Sam.
Thanks for bringing these heaters to my attention. While I often move about my shop, my time at the computer will benefit from these heaters.
John in Bethel, Missouri. USA
I love your honesty.
Great video on your "infared heaters"!
Live and learn my friend.
Well done, Sir!
I wondered what was going on with those when I saw you putting up the other heater over the door. Thanks for the update and the information about them.
Just keep learning. You have had a full cup with all that's been going on. I can not wait until your back outside doing projects with the family.
In 1982, I was help construct a 30 story high rise office building in downtown Denver, Colo. that the only heating system is continuous perimeter, electric ceiling panel system. It worked very well.
🎉 YAY YOU!🎉
Hi Angela and the boys!
✌️💖🙏🙌🤜
Those panels look great!
They are really good.
Thank you Sam!
Fascinating I didn't know about these type systems, I was aware of IR heating but not at this application level.
They also make infrared cove heaters that mounts to the wall, few inchs away from the top of the ceiling, projects down at an angle
Thank you for the video.
Those look pretty neat for the PROPER application. :) I am glad they did work pretty dang well.
Peaceful Skies.
Sounds like it's going to work out after all is said and done, since you plan on relocating some of them to more suitable areas of the shop. They do look nice.
Interesting product.
Been curious about these for a paint room.
They look cool
They're warm!
Sam….is it possible that attach roller wheels to the frame and runners on the ceiling and position those runners that cover most used areas? Just a thought the popped into my head. Of course that con is long electric cords Vice static to the attached position. Always enjoy you and your family. Keep on with videos…you’re the best.❤
I had smaller units installed in my classroom when they took out the boiler system. They were sized to fit in the space between the lights in the suspended ceiling. The thermostat was odd, it had a little IR eye on it that read the temperature of whatever was four feet in front of it.
I am looking now for the area I will be hooking up the new CNC.
As stated in the video, IR heaters do not heat the air. They heat solid objects. Those objects radiate heat, which does heat the air. As others have suggested, fans can be used to mix the air in the room, which will help eliminate cold spots. I use a small IR heater in my shop. I also use a small tower-style fan to mix the air. Without the fan, it gets too hot where the heater is pointed and remains too cold elsewhere. The fan is set on low, so it's almost silent and the breeze from the fan can hardly be felt.
🎉🎉🎉😂amazing heater nice.
Great review good information. Also would like to note that none of the electrical in that building is to code scary scary fire hazard lol
These would be perfect for an office where people are in predictable locations.
How about adding a ceiling fan or two? might make the difference.
Hi, Did you try running a fan?
I had an infrared two infrared heaters in my office, without it, my room in winter would be around 62 degrees. I could heat up my desktop to "lizard sunning on a rock". My feet were still at 62 degrees because the infrared only works on what it can see.
Since they are plugged in maybe put a track so you can move them a few feet to where you are working.
What was the difference of the electric bill?
N/M cable (Romex) is not rated for this type of installation, neither is the great amount of cable from your panel board into your attic space. It’s meant to be used in covered applications (in wall or in ceiling) and not exposed.
We had infrared heaters in the past, to get the heat spread evenly throughout the room use small 5 inch fans to circulate the heated air
That does help a bit, but these heaters do not really heat the air, as strange as that may seem. These heaters produce very localized heating of surfaces with only a very small amount of heat energy transferred to the air.
This is a hard concept to visualize, but it becomes very clear when you use one. Think about it like heat from light that you can't see! It is similar to how the Sun can feel warm on your skin while the air temperature is well below freezing. Sunlight has both visible and infrared light energy. These panels only output the invisible infrared portion of light energy.
@@professorg8383 I know exactly what infrared heaters do and how they work.
Like stated I had some. Yes they do in a way heat the air under them, air doesn't suddenly disappear in those areas, it's still there.
We used small, low power fans to gently move the air and it worked.
No it didn't suddenly boost temperature to what it was under the heaters but it did get rid of the ultra cold spots
@@MNTNSTARZ80. It doesn't heat the air. It works the same way the sun works. It heats surfaces with infrared light, and that heat transfers to the air through conduction; energy transferred to the air as it crosses the surface and energy is transferred from object to air molecules. (Some of those sun wavelengths are absorbed by and warm the atmosphere, but that isn't the case with these panels.)
Sure, you can move more heat away from the surfaces and into the air through conduction with a fan that constantly renews the cooler air coming into contact with the surface. While that's all well and good, it's not really the intention of this type of heating, and is using more energy by continuously running the fans, and will only conduct the amount of heat that went into the heating. Warm surfaces also emit IR, so there's a bit of benefit from that.
Trying to use these heaters to heat the air has no efficiency benefit over using a solution that directly heats the air, like a coil / oil heater, which also often use fans to conduct the heat into the air. Oil radiator style heaters use fins to increase their surface area for more contact with the air.
The point of these panels is to avoid wasting energy heating the air, and instead are meant to heat the individual and the area around them directly. Warm air energy is often wasted as that energy is transferred to surfaces or the air circulates out of the area/building where the heat goes to waste. The panels are great for if you spend 90% of time sitting at a desk or if you have locations you'll be for brief periods of time and don't want to warm up the entire space; like a bathroom or kitchen. Or maybe you want to put it over the bed to heat the bed, or run it over night, while keeping the HVAC turned down or even completely off.
Personally, I'd rather have these panels be mobile so I can move them around. Most of my time at home is spent in my office, but I have a north side addition that I use as a tv room, but rarely use it. For those times I do, having a way to directly heat the couch and myself rather than heating up the entire room would be nice. The room itself has minimal insulation. That way I can keep the home HVAC temperature turned down to a minimum temperature; just warm enough to keep from causing damage to the house in the winter. For the bed, I have a heated mattress cover which essentially accomplishes the same thing. The benefit to the panel would probably be longer life. Heated mattress covers can die pretty quickly and basically become useless in the winter after that, leading to more waste in having to buy another.
Interesting. I'm sure for certain applications it would be great like a bathroom you mentioned, but the whole point of modern ac tech is to eliminate uneven temperatures in the space and do it efficiently.
what's the approximate heat zone radius or diameter?
I have 4x infrared heaters as well. However, mine sre the ones that give off orange light, I think they are considered quartz heaters?
The advantage is that they are aiming at you vs just down. However, I try to only run 2x at a time because of the ridiculous amount of energy they use. I know the panel heaters like the ones you use are far less powerful only giving off 500 Watts vs 1500 of the quartz heaters.
Maybe put a metal fan underneath one of the heaters?
mount on wall?
People install it in bathrooms to heat up floor (some people don't use slippers and get their feet cold after getting from shower)
Whoa could i put these above a car and it will keep it warm? Probably having a heated garage might be better
Dosnt heat rise?
Thanks. Here are thought from someone with no experience with IR heat, so approach with care. How far will one of these units effectively project the IR "rays"? Would two units mounted so they face each other on opposing walls at object height, heat all the objects along that wall? Other considerations might be do these units radiate only in a straight line or is there some widening of the heat over sufficient distances? Could you get effective heating throughout with 4 or 6 mounted on your short walls (3 each)?
chicks and reptiles live under those ir heatsourses basicly rubbing up on them for days on end , he might tan a little and there might be a verry slight hum eminating off the panel if its not made right or worn (same with fluoresnt lights) but other than that there shouldnt be any sideeffects , think he stands more of a chance to get blinded by one of his machines that are totally protected btw
I guess it might save electricity to use a convection or forced air heater to heat the room to about 60'F and put the panel heaters over areas be occupying. I don't know if there is a such thing as a thermostat for radiant heaters. They're generally on or off, or they can be controlled using a dimmer switch or a power selector. Pay attention to power ratings as heaters can draw a lot of power.
Why no videos about connecting the two shops . Can be seen from outside that it has been done . Seen on your Green Acres Homestead videos.
Sam, I'm surprised the company that provided them did not offer a consulting service for you. That would have helped both of you.
Annnnnd...... It's time for A\C now. Lol. A few years ago I told you about my wall mounted Frigidaire that looks like a window unit that has heat and ac. It still works great after 8 years heating and cooling my 900 sq ft garage,but I'm looking forward to it dying so I can get a quieter diy mini split. Any chance you can get a sponsor for one of those?
You are so right, it's nearly A/C season in TN now. :) I would really like a mini split but am not sure what will happen. I need to price them again to compare again.
Is there any concern for the panels collecting dust in the top?
yes, that would make geat insulation and help force the radiation down 😄
it would be cool if you had them on a motorized gantry that follows you around lmao
What is the plan for air conditioning? I would think this is the perfect application for a DIY heat pump such as from Mr Cool. Much more efficient than the electrical heaters you have plus they provide air conditioning and de-humidification. I get that you got these IR heaters for free but even if you bought a heat pump it would pay for itself in electrical savings over the "free" resistance and IR heaters.
if he pumps water from deep out of the lake on his property through a car radiator in his shop with some fans behind it he could cool the shop some , it whont be chilly but it would be cooler inside than outside , takes a lot of hose though to get to his shop from that pond/ lake and back , might need a pretty strong pump too to get the water to flow through that length a hose
He could do that or just ask Mr Cool to donate a heat pump so he can make a video of self installing it.
A cousin has radiant electrical heat in the ceilings of his new build house in the 1960's - it was the future! That is, until he came home from work on a cold winter night, took off his work boots to relax, and sat down on the couch. His feet under the coffee table would literally freeze while he was sweating bullets. Needless to say, electric baseboard heaters were soon installed - which turned out to be another questionable heating option.
Sounds like he needed to install a fan to continuously circulate the hot air back down from the ceiling. Most heating solutions could benefit from a ceiling fan or circulation fan.
@@updlate4756 Not really. I've worked and lived with multiple types of radiant heaters and heating systems. The electrical panel type are the worst of the lot for space heating and a forced convection patch wouldn't worked. A well designed hydronic floor system, especially in concrete is best and does well enough with natural convection but responds too slowly. In industrial areas, a gas fired radiant heater system in high bay buildings only works to the uneven high/low variance degree it does as the workers are dressed for conditions and are active. So radiant heating is fairly limited to best serve space heating applications, in my experience. That said, I agree with ceiling fans for central heating and cooling supplementation, especially for my cathedral ceilings...
As others have said here a mini split system probably would have been better option.
Install a mini split and call it a day
Socket. The word you were looking for is socket.
Guess you need 2 more.
Are you going to rework the infrared heaters and Thermostats?
Did you watch the video? He directly addressed this question.
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That's over 4400 watts for all 4. Get a 240 volt 24000 BTU mini split get the highest seer number you can afford it will heat your space and cool it for pennies compared to all this electric heat you are doing. I know we live and learn but your electric bill has to be crazy high
comment
As someone who did HVAC for a few years, I can safely say... heat from down low and cool from up high. Cool air falls and warm air rises naturally. Doing it the other way around is just more work and more cost. BTW, watts consumed converts directly to BTUs so as an example, any heater that's 1,000 watts basically gives off the same amount of heat. To the room or to the objects is the only difference.
he's not heating the air, He's creating radiation that heats the objects in the room. This works the same way as the old ceiling heat from the 60's-70's where cables were imbedded in the ceiling to heat the room. it feels like you're out in the sun.
@@kirksway1 yes, I said that. The point of my post was more about cost to run... and warming your feet is more comfy than warming your head.
you could try mounting one against the wall to try or maiby hang the high up the wall at an angle and see how far they reach intoo the space
they might cover more distance that way then just straight down ceiling to floor , they whont warm up youre worktop and the tools on it that way though as there not radiating on it
not sure if its a beam or coneshape there radiating but it might allso help to get panels that are 1/4th of the wattage and size and spread them around more over the workspace and in front of the tables so the difference in temperature between the panels is less as the space between the panels isnt as large
I bought a mirrored one for one of our downstairs bathrooms. Useless.
$625 each? Seriously, why would you go with something this expensive, that only heats , compared to a heat pump that heats AND cools for less than half the cost?
Because…. They were free from the company.
i believe the heatpump aircon uses a LOT more energy
Heat pumps noy work when the temp is above 20 in the winter. Below that it runs on straight electric and I can tell you that isn’t cheap. Two of these is 1300 bucks can’t put in a new heat pump for that.
@@watahyahknownot as much.. they are really efficient I think
@@lechatbotte.Your information is dated. A heat pump can operate in quite cold environments, and they are becoming extremely affordable.
YOU SHOULD HAVE USE 12 GAUGE WIRE FOR YOUR HEATER IT WOULD BE A LOT SAFER AND 14 GAUGE IS MAX 15 AMP USED ON LIGHT FIXTURES AND THERE IS VERY LITTLE DIFFERENCE IN PRICE OVER SAFETY
Oh.... so the heaters were free.
The panel heaters are not shown on their website. Did they discontinue them? If so, your video is still interesting, but the links are not useful. I'm also not sure what you want out of your thermostats. Thermostats measure air temperature, and I think that's what we want to measure. The infrared heat of course is projected onto objects and people, which ... give off that heat to the air, which ... is measured by your thermostats. If you're worried about the time delay in the process, you just set the thermostat several degrees lower than your target temperature.
IR heaters heat YOU, not the room.
U r wrong
That's a rad panel. There is nothing infrared about it.
A wood stove would have been a better choice
Would be neat to see how much energy they use compared with your other heater or just heaters in general. Great shop, wish I had one LOL
I had them!!!!! Do not buy its shit and not cost effective!!!!!!
~ I got one ....
and waited 2 Weeks for Delivery ... than I got a Notice that Read ( Undeliverable Cuz they Smashed it ) ~ They Never Offered to Replace the One I Bought just sent my Money Back ~ Don’t know Who’s running the show at Heat Storm ... but they seem like Clowns to me...