Stop Aiming HERE in Doubles! (losing targets)
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
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#doubles #tennis #lesson
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Crud, can't believe I missed the window. Is there going to be another opportunity for this? (meaning Textbook Doubles, I tried it and it said the window was closed) Also, I am using this video to start out with my doubles teams in practice today. We are having a lot of controversy over players being upset when they get hit. I'm emphasizing just what you did, "We don't intentionally hit AT players, but when both offensive and defensive players are being aggressive its part of the game. Apologize and move one, as long as it isn't a habit."
I think your coaching point is spot on however, I think the clips (first 2) you chose are not fair to those players. It'd be tough to confirm but I don't believe anyone intentionally hit to the net guy like they did. My guess is they tried to go cross court but because they were pulled out wide they ended up hitting it late. In those situations, first serves and going out wide, expecting players at that level to pull off a perfect cross court shot is a losing proposition. Therefore, I tell my players to either lob it high cross court or if you want to chance it, go straight and HARD at the net guy. Personally, I'd mostly go high lob cross court.
I understand your point, and it's definitely valid. In defense of the lower level players though, I think they may want to hit better shots than you're giving them credit for. Their poor shots probably have more to do with their ability to hit precisely than their decision making?
Also, I wish the stats included forced errors v. unforced errors.
You very well may be right, Gretchen! It's pretty hard to judge intent 100% as a bystander. .
@@EssentialTennis I don't think they were intending to hit it back, I think their abilities didn't allow them to control the ball to where they would want to hit it and also time robs you of judgement and when the ball comes right at you, you are concerned with just making contact with the ball if it all happens in one split second. There was also one shot where you pointed out the cross court shot that was intercepted but if that volley person wasn't there their shot would have actually went cross court to the baseliner like you recommended but it just crossed the path of the volley person and was intercepted. So, it wasn't that the baseliner was trying to hit at the volleyer.
I have a hard time hitting angled volleys. You're right.
While it is the baseliner’s mistake for hitting to the net player. Both times I saw the teammate at the net not being in the correct defensive position to cover the middle and defend against the opponent’s volley. The first example he could have covered the short volley. The second he could have actually just gotten a volley back with a volley. Of course that’s counting on the net player knowing what to look for and positioning correctly.
Totally agree, Jonathan!
Exactly it's the "imaginary rope" rule
You know, at this level the returner isn't intentionally "aiming" the ball toward the guy in front of the net for the easy volley put away. The returner isn't thinking to himself: "oh, Ima gonna hit the ball right back to the guy waiting at the net, ideally to his forehand". At the 3.5/4.0 level if the serve is half-decent enough to generate pressure - especially when pulling the returner wide and off position - credit to the server for the pressure that generated opportunities. What you are saying isn't wrong, but not very useful IMO to a 3.5/4.0 player. Instead maybe offer some drills on HOW to deal with pressure and able to redirect shots more effectively. "Don't aim at the dude who's at the net when you are at baseline" is... pretty common sense. Now if you got a short ball opportunity, then maybe aim at the net player, or at their feet.
It's common sense.....but it happens a LOT, both when pressured and when not pressured.
Yes. Great points, Ian. Thanks. Two worst teamwork times for me is when we’ve been able to pressure the opponents into a weak shot and my partner plops it right back to the defensive player, and 2, when my partner tries to drive the ball through the net player, which takes away any chance for our teamwork.
In these examples: The 3.5 guy was reaching up over his head in both. At 3.5, most players aren’t very confident in their overheads. Conversely, the 4.0 guy had balls 2 feet over the net in the perfect volley strike zone, very few players at 3.5 will aim directly at someone, whether it’s part of the game or not.
Anyway, love these doubles strategy videos. I’m not a great ball striker, but stay with ‘better’ players by working the points, positioning, and percentages. More, please.
Really appreciate your thoughts, Mark!
In the first two examples, I think neither player wanted to hit to the net player. In the third and fourth, the net player is just trying to bop it back.
Just because we want to hit cross court, it doesn't mean we can.
Then at least you know what to work on! 🙂
Yeah, was about to say the same thing. If I hit to the net player in a situation like that it's either a misshit from me or the serve was just good. Maybe it was hard for the channel to find footage where players purposely aim at the net player or past him (also worth of a video btw: the unnecessary risk taking by trying to hit past the net player instead of just a safe cross court shot.)
Great content. I have used your effective videos to go from a 3.0 to a solid 4.0 / 4.5 player. Doubles is my favourite part of tennis and love new strategies to be added to my repertoire.
These videos are great. They also helped me go from 3.0 to 4.5 in 1 year
SO happy to read that, Redesign and it'sMid!! ❤
As an old high school tennis coach I recommend practicing using situational drills to instill the best response. You got to practice the way you want to play. So many recreational players always play practice by playing sets and never actually do drills to work on skills or strategy/ tactics. Doubles is a team game and partners should work together to isolate one opponent and place the ball into the most difficult section of the court.
I play a lot of recreational doubles, I notice everyone always plays crosscourt on return. I'll take it as a compliment to my volleying skills ;)
Many times I get pulled off the court returning a good slice serve I hit the ball to the up person, not because I don’t know to hit it to the deep person but because it’s so difficult to pull the ball that wide especially a serve with pace. Though it looks bad, easier said than done on the first example.
Been loving the amount of doubles strategy videos! Please keep ‘em comin
I think there is an additional factor that recreational players consider when making their shots, and that is player abilities and weaknesses. Especially in a smaller club or league, you rarely get four players on court that are of the same level and have equal skills, there is always someone that hates being at the net or is just not as good as their partner and opponents. So if rec players notice or know this, they would try to pick on the weakest link or avoid the stronger opponent, even if that means going for a lower-percentage shot.
Very true. The weakest link gets more balls hit in their area. 😡
If you (an amateur player) play a smash directly to the feet of a netplayer, you will possibly hit him sometimes . That is the reason, why many players don't do it.
Once, I hit an amateur player directly in the face (eye) with a dinking topspin forehand. He dived into that ball, because he wanted to hide below the net. It was a very fast forehand.
Good video and true Ian.
In playing tonight some of my return shots looked like some of these that are not hitting to the easier target areas.
One reason is the server hit a really good serve and forced me into a bed return.
The other is because I was trying to hit close to the net player but just out of reach for him to make a good volley to attack and I didnt get my shot where I wanted it.
in my oppinion in the first example the players is force to play that shot because the serve is deep and isn't prepared to attack it and make a cross court shot (he hits a bit late, he will never be able to hit it cross court)
Very well could be!
I have been making this very mistake on purpose!!!!! i thought i should keep it away from the other net player. Thank you so much for this video. I can't wait for my doubles game next week!!!
Keep it away from the net player if you can not make an aggressive shot to his feet/etc. A good target is the net player's foot which is closest to the center line of the serve box. Or, if you want to discourage the net player from staying so close to the net, aim for the net player's pocket closest to his serving hand.
I don't think that we intentionally return the ball to the net player, but it happens. What I would like to see, is how do we "avoid" returning to the net player. I know that I want to hit to the defensive player at the baseline, but I tend to hit to the net player unintentionally. What is the solution to this? Is it hitting earlier or my feet and how I am set up? That is a video/lesson I would lke to see. Thanks!
Great video mate, thank you
Great job. I found myself guilty of some of the bad choices. I already knew it but thanks for pouring it out. Hopefully my nemesis won't figure it out.
It looked like the returners were kind of up in the air reaching awkwardly for the ball to return, so they did not have good position to control where the ball would go.
Speaking from the perspective of the person who keeps making these errors. It's not that we don't know where to hit it, it's more that we CAN'T get the ball where we want to.
We'd all love to be able to put the ball exactly where we aim it, but most of the time it's more like "I just want to put the ball in this general direction" and more often than not it goes in a totally different direction than intended.
The other interesting thing about the difference in quality of the first two points. If you watch the receiving net player, the first point he's turning round watching his partner hitting the shot. The second the receiving net player is watching his opponent at the net. First player loses valuable fractions of a second having to turn his head and not seeing the net player react. Ok made no difference on these points but so important to watch the net man not the ball.
I agree 100%, Dan!
It would be nice to have review of 4.5/5 decisions to go down the line on return
Great stuff coach!
It's amazing to see that some principles regarding doubles transcend and make sense at many levels.
Thank you ET team!
Cheers!
M
Always appreciate your support, Munditimum!
Club level coaches are lazy. Often, I'm being pushed back, and then my partner goes running into the net. They simply hit between us for a winner! Coaches get mad at me for having the tennis I Q to tell my partner that I can't go in on a deep shot . That he should wait for the short ball ?? Maddening, I have more examples.
A lot of what happened in rec play is mental. Ironically, recplaying has no incentive to win and yet, every single player dislikes losing to the point their shots deteriorate so much compared to how they hit in practice . So even if they know they should aim better, a lot of time it's just trying to get the ball back the easiest way and hope for a mistake from the opponent. For my part, I treat every match like a practice match, so my game is the same as my practice. My goal is only to try to limit errors to about 15%, but I am not going to sacrifice quality of shots to do that. I've played with partners who could blast an ace on the first serve but only dinked the second serve in. And the first serve was in only 30% of the time. I would rather commit a few double faults but practice a quality second serve until the second serve is quality and reliable.
Lots of different personalities out there. Thanks for watching, Tom!
Problem with targeted volleys is that it's also a common source of error. Putting an angle on a volley is an added skill.
If you're a doubles player who can't aim their volleys then we've found a big, important thing to work on 🙂
Good stuff!
The other mistake these 5 + players are doing. They turn completely around to see what their partner is doing. U didn't even mention this. U can't be ready for the ball if you're turning around to see what your partner is doing u won't be ready when the ball comes to u! Maddening!
I see NOT people aiming at the wrong spot, but, under pressure, not hitting where they aim.
That is kind of the point in playing: try to out enough pressure on the opponent so they can't hit the shot they intend...
What about the two bounce rule?
10:00 Interesting stat. 🤔
Ladies 3.5 level: 20% of rallies end with winners.
Ladies 4.0 level: 12% of rallies end with winners.
So *60% more winners are hit at the 3.5 ladies level* compared to 4.0.
Very little difference between men's 3.5 and 4.0 levels. 15% and 14% of rallies end with winners respectively.
I don't think the 1st point, the returner deliberately hit towards the net player. When at this level under put under pressure, they tend to be late on the ball, a cross shot would become down the line. Making it over the net is barely almost they can manage, aiming for a very sharp angle to hit to the baseliner is too much to ask for.
Hit it down the line
That's how we do it in the PROS!
The higher level player hitting to the net player is equivalent to the lower level players hitting to the net player. I doubt any of them were intentionally doing it. The lower level players just need to get better at returning serves more accurately.
disagree on the first example. The guy returning didnt mean to hit directly at the guy at the net. He meant to go cross court but swung late due to the good wide serve. I guarantee it..
Why not to go down the line at the beginning of the game so the net person would stopping approaching?
I bet if you ask the guy: why did you make those decisions?
The guy: Oh , I didn’t aim there.
😂😂😂
No way was the guy at 6:00 actually intending to hit it where he did. This happens to me all the time, I'm trying to go for the gap but just end up hitting a mediocre volley that goes straight back tot he opponent.
It is not a choice of easy vs hard but their ability to control the ball to put in desired place(easy one). They simply cannot do it due to lack of experience and practice.
Not necessarily. I have seen players hit to the net player because they think the net player will flub the volley or they feel the other player at the baseline is much stronger & will hit back a much stronger shot.
If only we could hit every ball precisely where we wanted while having an aerial view of the court.
I guess you can use this to win within your level to an extent. But this wont help a 3.0 beat a 4.0 team or 2.5s beat 3.5s. Intuitive tennis.
The tactics work at every level. That's why I showed 5.0 players using them. Of course, the quality of the shots you hit are also important if you want to keep leveling up.
I ll state that 80% recreational players cannot or dont know how to hit a proper volley. Either they havent or they dont exercise their volley and get a proper technique. They just react in doubles.
Why not just sit back and play defense with only high probability shots to the defensive opponent? You'll draw out more errors to win without incurring the risk of committing an error yourself.
Sometimes that's absolutely the best play. Sometimes more offense is needed if your opponents are stronger.
@@EssentialTennis Would a stronger defense and neutral play offset the opponents superior skill level or superior offense? Just become a better wall in other words.
@@jlook6070 I think that's just what Ian meant. Stronger opponent means he does everything a little better, which means if you trade shots from the baseline, you'd most likely miss first. So you're gonna have to take your chances to end point. A lot of recreational players don't like to take risk because they'd rather have the opponent make the mistakes. This won't work against a player better than you, because you'd tend to make mistakes first in a neutral rally. I am an old player now with less mobility than my younger opponents, so taking chances is how I have to play. If the opportunity presents, I have to go for my shots instead of playing safe and wait for mistakes, because I could lose my legs first and make mistakes anyway. And you can't improve if you don't go for shots, taking a big swing (but not a wild swing).
@@tomsd8656 That does make sense, age will change how you can play. Also the stronger player part as well. Though what is the best plan forward on emphasis towards growth in offense vs defense skills if one is just a wall. Would an emphasis on defense growth over offense growth be advised?
@@jlook6070 I would say not entirely. At least in my experience at the rec level, the better defensive player almost always win. But we don't want to just get the ball back but rather the aim should be to produce quality shots. So we don't neccesarily aim for winners, but if we can produce quality shots consistently, we could induce errors from the opponent earlier in the rally, or get a short ball. If you practice quality shots, you will make more mistakes but in the long run your game will improve. If you had faced a player that got everything back but with deeper, faster shots than yours, then you know what I mean.
There is nothing worse than being at the net and your partner hits it right to the opposite player at the net. You have so little time to react.
umm.. duh?
Good points but you're conflating an aggressive shot with an easy shot. Hitting it to the baseline player who's right in front of you is easier than angling to the net player's feet, which is probably why he did it. Hitting a wide serve up the middle to the net player is easier than hitting it wider and deep; again probably why he did it. Also, the poor shot placement led to losing the point but wouldn't be counted as an unforced error in the stats you cited. Your points are valid; those are poor shot placements, but not because they're harder shots.
Appreciate your comments, Dennis!
Dont be addicted to hitting winner unless you are 4.5 upwards...
Nope. At 4.5 and 5.0 the focus should be much, much more on forcing errors than hitting winners. The principle applies to all levels!
But you have to focus on hitting quality shots, meaning hitting chosen targets around the courts with good pace, and try to increase pace without sacrificing accuracy. It's more fun playing that way because you'd feel good when your overall accuracy and pace gets better.
@@tomsd8656 Yes, that's right, that's exactly what I meant by "forcing errors"
My mom just took put 2 dead rats from the damn kitchen and i get reccomended this?
the graph where it shows M3.5 doesn't add up. Winners: 15% Errors: 85%.
at lower levels and social tennis no one wants to thump a volley at someone, I am sure they could but they chose not to. At higher levels its ultra competitive then anything goes. you are not comparing like with like. I have seen fights almost start when someone is hit with a volley and can create a bad atmosphere for the rest of the match, or even a bad reputation in your club!
Everybody has to make the choice for themselves.....to be "nice" or to do what wins the most points.
@EssentialTennis we just found the dude who got hit 😂