This panel can put out close to 100 watts ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
Here in Iowa our meter spins in reverse when we supply to the grid. When we built the house we covered both east west roofs with panels. Cost was high but we almost have no power bill. RI is 7 years at our current figure. Then a 1kw wind turbine will go up.
***** People who installed solar early in australia sell power back to the grid for more than we buy it, now it is the other way around, this is why we need a smart reader to read different up and down rates.
Enjoy it while you can, they've eliminated net metering here in Michigan, and they're trying to everywhere. We pay about 14c and get paid about 6c to sell back. That's why I'm putting in a battery so I can eat my own power.
I would suggest taking that extra power your panels are creating and pipe it into a battery bank that would also power a hydro cell that would produce hydrogen gas for your gas water heater. But I would suggest you have a valve to switch back to the natural gas when you don't have the extra power to donate to the cell or upgrading the cell.
EEVblog It would be nice to get a small update-video of how much power your system produced, how much you used of this and how much you fed to the grid.
Here's my question. Your electric bill the month before and the month after the panels were installed? By the way, I have a tiny system with 3 15W panels and a 200Ahr deep cycle battery. I use a 12V CFL camping light for reading, run my ham radios, and charge my cell phone/tablet off the system. It was very handy when a winter storm knocked out power for 4 days once.
Here in Israel we also have everything inside the house. I also find it interesting how the stuff are arranged @ Dave's place... Great video non the less, Dave. Thanks for sharing! :)
Man you have a nice place. Love the yard. Not so big that you spend half your time maintaining it, but big enough that you can spread out a lil and do "stuff". Nice nice. Can't wait to see the next vids on how the panels are working out for you. The vids are much appreciated. Thanx :)
Nothing like doing an installation while an EE is behind you with a camera! Now that's pressure. I'm in school for EE right now, but I worked as an electrician for a handful of years. I can say in all honesty, it sucks having people look over your shoulder. That being said... anytime somebody works on my stuff, I look over their shoulder! :)
There was a massive surge in PV installation here in the UK about 2 or 3 years ago, due to a government subsidy on the install price and a special deal on the feed in tariff back to the grid. When I investigated the viability of the deal it fell down pretty quickly. Depending on how many KWH a system fed back into the grid it was going to take 10 -15 years to pay for the system. Now, given that system prices would fall substantially in that time and the life of todays PV panels will probably only be about 20 - 25 years the numbers just didn't make good sense. And further, to qualify for the deal it was mandatory for the system to be installed by an 'approved' installer who would issue the necessary certificate in order that the owner could register for the feed in tariff payments. So it was all a bit of a gravy train for the manufacturers really. And of course, in the UK, the hours of sunlight are far less than down there in Oz, so the rate of KWH production is way less. PV panels prices have already fallen massively in the last 2 years, so those mugs that paid £10-20K for their 'subsidised' systems will be feeling a bit pissed off I would imagine! I'll wait another 2 years when a whole system can be had for maybe a thou or two, then I'll buy and fit myself.
+turboslag Ah but here in the UK we were also pretty unique in that we get paid twice on the same chunk of power generated. There is of course the Feed-In-Tariff (also known as the export tariff) where we get paid for each kW of energy generated and exported to the grid, but there is also a second payment (the generation tariff) where we get paid for each kW of energy generated - regardless of whether it is consumed locally or exported to the grid.
The interesting thing, is over on the other side of Australia, we only have one meter for both solar and house. Some states over east use a net metering system so they need two meters.
We have that problem in some parts of Adelaide (South Australia). The voltage spikes in the richer suburbs when the sun comes out. Queensland (or at least the power company in Townsville) regulates who can have panels installed and how many they can have to avoid that issue.
Wow, the walk through your backyard tickles the biologist in me :-) Wasn't aware of the efficiency loss due to temperature in photovoltaics. Cooling with water really seems counter-productive to the whole renewable thing, especially in Australia.
04:58 I'm curious: does Australia not use modular fuse panels? All the circuit breakers look like they're mounted by drilling into the backing plate. Does that mean you have to drill holes in the backing plate if you want to add a new circuit? In the US, we have bus bars into which you plug the circuit breakers*, and I guess I just figured they were common everywhere. *There are many different types because the manufacturers didn't agree on the best form factor until recently, which makes finding the right breaker a bit of a pain, but that's a different story.
TheBrentieman It depends on the age of the house, more modern homes use modular din rail mounting system, but here older homes will have like what was shown in this video. We have a lot of old homes that were built and wired to the standard of the time much like other places around the world.
My current project is micro-inverters for PV installations. This avoids the one shaded panel problem and provides redundancy for the inverter so the installation doesn't fall over if you lose the (one) inverter of a traditional system.
5:00 and 26:00 I'm a little surprised you don't have a smart meter yet. Here in Victoria pretty much the whole state has them now and are mandatory by the end of 2013, not sure about NSW but I would imagine they would have a similar scenario. Feeding back to the grid used to be about 60c, but yeah in Vic it's only about 8c, more or less the same to NSW. Compliments on your lovely home and congratulations on a nice solar system installation.
Yep, gas meter & gas hot water system, electricity meter and fusebox are all generally outside in Australia. Makes it easy for the utility companies to read your meter for billing.
It's always interesting to see the various ways this stuff is done in different countries, but yeah, I don't think I've ever seen something where each breaker is treated as a separate unit just mounted on a board of some sort; the Dutch, French, and US systems I'm familiar with all have some sort of rail or frame that the breakers/fuses mount on or in.
Ripple control involves superimposing a higher-frequency signal (usually between 100 and 1600 Hz) onto the standard 50-60 Hz of the main power signal. When ripple control receiver receive this signal, they shut down the load until the signal is disabled or another frequency signal is received. Ripple control systems are used for switching tariffs, street lightning or other loads
makes sense, we have a dual rate tarif here and the meter is supposed to get a time signal to sync, but its out of sync since fitted 8 years ago.. the guy didnt know how to set the time on it, and said dont worry it will sync one day.. so its been off since then. not by much, but its odd its never got the signal, the UK has all one main supply
What about mounting two photo diodes on the new net meters? You could track and graph the usage even better, since the sunnyboy only will see the solar side of the circuit.
Not quite. They are measuring alternating current, so the direction of the power flow isn't detectable, unless you keep track of the current and the voltage across every half-cycle. Disconnect the inverter and add a load, and the meter would probably measure power through the load as if it was generated.
Yep, it's just been common practice in finland for at least last 40 years to run 3-phase to every detached house. But that is, with cold winters and no gas network for most part.
I am in WA and the tarrif per kw used is about 26c (per unit), and we get nearly 9cents per unit exported to the grid, We have had our PV system for about 3 months or so, the first billing period we did use the ducted refridg aircond and saved in the region of some $600 (we also used the oven and washer when the sun was shining). Did the installers put a isolator on the roof? (new rule from the solar council or some such organisation) this is to isolate the HV DC run from panels to inverter
Could you run piping and heat sinks to the solar panels, receive a boon to the power production and perhaps pull some hot water off of them? Make that gas heater work a bit less?
Good point. I've been thinking of a semi-DIY systems approach using foil-backed "bead-board" they call it in the states. Place Cu tubes in contact with the foil side, pressed down into, compressing the foam, then put the [foam&foil&Cu-tube] sandwich in a frame that holds it in firm contact with the back of the PV panel. Solder the Cu tube ends into a manifold at the top and bottom of the sandwich. Use some of the PV DC to run a pump moving Ethelene Glycol thru the tubes, to a heat exchanger.
My hot water is on tariff 33, just need to ensure it's a big enough storage system (Not one that only heats when in use). I've never run out of hot water, even when I had a fairly major leak in one of the hot water pipes under the house (didn't notice for a while).
It's weird to see fuses on the fuse box (I know, the name is fuse box, so it's normal to have fuses inside), but here on Brazil, we aren't allowed to use fuses, only circuit breakers.
Australian standard is 230V, 50Hz (single phase) or 400V, 50 Hz (three phase). The old standard was 240V, but there is an effort to bring AU and EU standards in to line.
if you want to use the software on your computer for the inverter look for a SMA sunny beam as it has a usb connection so you can monitor your usage on the computer
The model he installed in this video has two MPP trackers, meaning loss from shading can be minimized by having to separate arrays that make partial shading a much less significant issue.
Ooh, that sounds interesting! So the voltage (water and gas too?) meter is in a buried box, together with the main fuse, and the normal fusebox is still inside the house?
Hi Dave. I have the same SMA inverter (but with Sanyo/Panasonic panels) and probably at this time you will already know that you don't need the SMA Sunny Beam box (expensive for what it does) but just the free software Sunny Explorer to monitor your system on a PC. Hope this can help. Oh, btw, Great production to be in winter!
Very nice indeed. I wonder could we modify to increase efficiency of Solar panels. What if we were to put a TEG system along the back of the panels and rails to generate excess DC to feed back into the inverter. I mean if you harness more of the loses wouldn't that increase your DC feedback to save more money?
These must be consumer grade panels. I've been involved in production of 475W+ ones some time ago. Testing process is quite interesting as well: to determine the output of the panel it is getting fed into a flashing machine which generates an intense flash of light. The rating then recorded and assigned as its maximum output.
We generally have 240V 10A AC outlets here in Australia, suitable for most applications. Some more powerful air conditioning systems require 3-phase, as do alot of industrial devices such as inductive motors, but generally single phase is enough for home appliances.
Dave, have you considered harnessing the excess energy into a battery grid to stop double dipping? Was watching some videos from the UK where they also store power from the off peak system at lower rates for use in the day. Obviously how useful that would be depends on inverter and battery efficiency though :( Trying to maximise efficiency can drive you nuts I think, I even looked at converting house lighting to lower voltages to improve efficiency.
I still can't get my head round that June/July etc is classed as winter in Auss. It would feel so weird living there and all those UK summer months being classed as winter.
You'll be very happy with you investment Dave, I know I was, and the funny thing is, you actually look forward to your power bill. My last power bill was $35 and that's during a Perth summer with A/C going most days and nights, I also have a 3kw system west facing. Oh BTW, you'll be running around the house now switching things off and being more energy conscious.
Over here in the Netherlands both readings get cancelled against each other, so if you produce 5 kWh during the day and use 6 kWh during the night we only have to pay 1 kWh. Feed-in tarifs over here are comparable though. (exces production)
The number of regulations and building codes you had to work around was crazy! Building projects like these are so much easier where I live: No enforced building codes! :D
Itron meters used to be made about 5 miles from where I live here in England, and now they've shipped all production overseas. Itron is owned by a religious organisation, and at the Felixstowe plant, there is a large church on the side of the factory
It depends completely on how much you are currently paying for power, here in California the average time for ROI is about 7 years. Even less for large commercial projects, but that is because they pay outrageous amounts of money for their power.
(Mind you, my inverter is staying closed for the time being. I have a pretty good idea of what's involved in generating 3kW of single phase 230Vac from a bunch of DC)
I wonder... If you buy a kilowatt for 26c, and the company pays only 6c for your produced KW, wouldn't be wiser to add a battery bank and go off-grid? You have the panels already... Thx for the vid!
EEVblog How expensive? By what percent would battery prices have to drop for them to make sense? Tesla says the are going to make Lithium-ion batteries 40% cheaper by 2017
sfguy2000 Batteries regardless of the tech cost about 800$ per kWh. If you use 12 kWh a day and 6 of those during the evening/night you need at least 5000$ worth of batteries. They life for about 2000 charging cycles, so each cycle cost 2,5$.. Here in Germany electricity is about 25c/kWh, so the battery-cost alone would be equal to just buying the electricity. Addidionally you loose 6*6c=36c for not supplying it to the grid, so you actually loose money. Therefore we are about at the break even-point. If the price drops further and the lifetime gets better it should be worthwhile to install Batteries at home in a couple of years.
I never could understand how a grid tie inverter can parallel with the grid, or how a meter could measure in which direction the energy is flowing given that it's AC current, or how the energy gets used in the house first before it gets exported.
Dave, does it produce any sine distortions or noise when switching between solar/grid. I just bought a house in Arizona with the same inverter model installed and being a musician/audiophile myself really concerned about my power hungry tube amps especially during some recording. Is it better just to switch panels off during music activities involving power sensitive equipment? Someone told me once - never run 500W tube guitar amp from DC/AC inverter. Can you test your sinusoidal characteristics?
Here in Florida, the power company pays the same amount for purchased power and I pay them for my power. It varies by state here and some pay a lot more, some pay wholesale, just depends.
I would love to see some proper stats and analysis in say 6 months, but a year would be fairer to cover seasons. maybe an inside and out side thermal log is in order. And what is a linked comment??!
Not sure what you're saying here... Keep the weeds away from the solar panels? How much to the solar panel cases weigh? Perhaps you mean tear down? not really much point on a solar panel, just about everything is visible as is. Perhaps the bypass diode in the junction box on the back of the panel may be of interest...
Appears as documented a rather well done installation. As panels get hot, and work more efficiently when cooler, you might consider a hydronic loop which will cool panels and pre-heat (or heat) your domestic water. Why waste that heat, mate!
I bet the off-grid invertor would cost quite a bit more. This one you got I am guessing uses the grid power to match the frequency making it easier and cheaper to invert.
I've heard that those SMA inverters have a lot less EMI compared to the cheaper chinese branded ones so I think you have made the right choice and paid a bit extra. Apparently you can't use an AM radio near the cheaper ones :(
Those do exist, but the ones that I saw at a company that made them are bloody expensive as there is a series of aluminum plates behind the whole array and loads of copper pipes for the coolant. As such, they are usually used in building integrated systems where appearance is a big deal and worth the price premium. Separate (and MUCH cheaper) hot water collectors are the more common solution.
even if i did, to get one of those we have at least 50% import duty plus ~6 times the cost(relativ to wages) and you can't sell power to the utilities, so energy costs will keep being costs, you pay them or start using candles
There would have been one meter for tariff 33 (Electric hot water if it was installed). I'm assuming that's the one that is still there. Tariff 11, being standard rate, would have been on the meter that was replaced.
I can't be certain, but I believe Dave's fuse box is fairly old and a more modern one would be DIN mounted receptacles with an escutcheon plate over it
Do you find when running with the solar eletricity your light bulbs around the house are brighter and have a more sunshine sort of colour? Also do you have a special grid only feed for your fridge and freezer because clearly the solar eletric is too hot for them.
This is very common in Australia, Even get a bonus rate from the supplier/gov, with out looking its something like +20c. I'm in credit, have not payed a bill in 12 months
Ah, that explains it. Despite the Australian winter being as cold as Dave says, it is still quite warm to the majority of Europe. Add in the fact that most of our houses have natural gas which greatly reduces electricity use if gas heating is used.
Wow, you got everything like your fusebox and gasmeter outside?! Is that usual over there, or does it just happen to be like that on your house? Here in Europe we got everything inside the house, as far as I know.
This panel can put out close to 100 watts ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxOqI2yqX0XVrhR2BMJciTWrHJpG8FhJyg when positioned in the appropriate southernly direction, tilted to the optimal angle for your latitude/date, and connected to a higher capacity device than a 500. The built in kickstand angle is a fixed at 50 degrees. Up to 20% more power can be output by selecting the actual date and latitude optimal angle.The 500 will only input 3.5A maximum at 18 volts for 63 watts. Some of the excess power from the panel can be fed into a USB battery bank, charged directly from the panel while also charging a 500. This will allow you to harvest as much as 63 + 15 = 78 watts.If this panel is used to charge a larger device, such as the power station, then its full output potential can be realized.
Here in Iowa our meter spins in reverse when we supply to the grid. When we built the house we covered both east west roofs with panels. Cost was high but we almost have no power bill. RI is 7 years at our current figure. Then a 1kw wind turbine will go up.
***** People who installed solar early in australia sell power back to the grid for more than we buy it, now it is the other way around, this is why we need a smart reader to read different up and down rates.
@Tim If you want a great solar energy system then go here now: HootPower.xyz
Enjoy it while you can, they've eliminated net metering here in Michigan, and they're trying to everywhere. We pay about 14c and get paid about 6c to sell back. That's why I'm putting in a battery so I can eat my own power.
I would suggest taking that extra power your panels are creating and pipe it into a battery bank that would also power a hydro cell that would produce hydrogen gas for your gas water heater. But I would suggest you have a valve to switch back to the natural gas when you don't have the extra power to donate to the cell or upgrading the cell.
EEVblog It would be nice to get a small update-video of how much power your system produced, how much you used of this and how much you fed to the grid.
*=======>>>>>==>>>* *home-renewable-energy.blogspot.com*
Pathfinder3877
Mehmet Yıldırım
+Mehmet Yıldırım bullshit
I love how you are just digging through his stuff and checking his things out, marvelous :D
Yes, I was surprised they didn't put in a smart meter. Guess it's not standard/mandated in NSW yet. I'm thankful.
We have a decent size block, but it's got some odd angles, so some parts not very usable.
One is for off-peak hot water which we don't have, but the meter is there anyway.
Here's my question. Your electric bill the month before and the month after the panels were installed?
By the way, I have a tiny system with 3 15W panels and a 200Ahr deep cycle battery. I use a 12V CFL camping light for reading, run my ham radios, and charge my cell phone/tablet off the system. It was very handy when a winter storm knocked out power for 4 days once.
Hats off to you for taking the plunge!
...and yes...now that I'm in the northern hemisphere...I was wondering why I'm having a double summer!!! ;-)
Here in Israel we also have everything inside the house. I also find it interesting how the stuff are arranged @ Dave's place... Great video non the less, Dave. Thanks for sharing! :)
Yes, two DC isolators, one on the roof, the other next to the inverter.
Man you have a nice place. Love the yard. Not so big that you spend half your time maintaining it, but big enough that you can spread out a lil and do "stuff". Nice nice.
Can't wait to see the next vids on how the panels are working out for you. The vids are much appreciated. Thanx :)
Nothing like doing an installation while an EE is behind you with a camera! Now that's pressure. I'm in school for EE right now, but I worked as an electrician for a handful of years. I can say in all honesty, it sucks having people look over your shoulder. That being said... anytime somebody works on my stuff, I look over their shoulder! :)
Yes. Majority of houses in oz do not have 3 phase.
Yes, most houses in oz have both on the outside. If the meter box is not on the outside then the meter dude cannot read it.
There was a massive surge in PV installation here in the UK about 2 or 3 years ago, due to a government subsidy on the install price and a special deal on the feed in tariff back to the grid. When I investigated the viability of the deal it fell down pretty quickly. Depending on how many KWH a system fed back into the grid it was going to take 10 -15 years to pay for the system. Now, given that system prices would fall substantially in that time and the life of todays PV panels will probably only be about 20 - 25 years the numbers just didn't make good sense. And further, to qualify for the deal it was mandatory for the system to be installed by an 'approved' installer who would issue the necessary certificate in order that the owner could register for the feed in tariff payments. So it was all a bit of a gravy train for the manufacturers really. And of course, in the UK, the hours of sunlight are far less than down there in Oz, so the rate of KWH production is way less.
PV panels prices have already fallen massively in the last 2 years, so those mugs that paid £10-20K for their 'subsidised' systems will be feeling a bit pissed off I would imagine! I'll wait another 2 years when a whole system can be had for maybe a thou or two, then I'll buy and fit myself.
+turboslag Ah but here in the UK we were also pretty unique in that we get paid twice on the same chunk of power generated. There is of course the Feed-In-Tariff (also known as the export tariff) where we get paid for each kW of energy generated and exported to the grid, but there is also a second payment (the generation tariff) where we get paid for each kW of energy generated - regardless of whether it is consumed locally or exported to the grid.
Looks absolutely amazing and seems to be working great. I'm very jealous !
The interesting thing, is over on the other side of Australia, we only have one meter for both solar and house. Some states over east use a net metering system so they need two meters.
We have that problem in some parts of Adelaide (South Australia). The voltage spikes in the richer suburbs when the sun comes out. Queensland (or at least the power company in Townsville) regulates who can have panels installed and how many they can have to avoid that issue.
Wow, the walk through your backyard tickles the biologist in me :-)
Wasn't aware of the efficiency loss due to temperature in photovoltaics. Cooling with water really seems counter-productive to the whole renewable thing, especially in Australia.
04:58 I'm curious: does Australia not use modular fuse panels? All the circuit breakers look like they're mounted by drilling into the backing plate. Does that mean you have to drill holes in the backing plate if you want to add a new circuit?
In the US, we have bus bars into which you plug the circuit breakers*, and I guess I just figured they were common everywhere.
*There are many different types because the manufacturers didn't agree on the best form factor until recently, which makes finding the right breaker a bit of a pain, but that's a different story.
TheBrentieman
It depends on the age of the house, more modern homes use modular din rail mounting system, but here older homes will have like what was shown in this video. We have a lot of old homes that were built and wired to the standard of the time much like other places around the world.
I will have to change my usage habit substantially to really get a low bill. But plan on doing that.
I'd love to see Dave get a shot of the off-peak switcher switching. Maybe scope the mains and see how the ripple sending works.
My current project is micro-inverters for PV installations. This avoids the one shaded panel problem and provides redundancy for the inverter so the installation doesn't fall over if you lose the (one) inverter of a traditional system.
I love it. I wish we had more of this here in the USA.
Mr Average in Sydney. Many houses just streets away are worth 3 times mine.
5:00 and 26:00 I'm a little surprised you don't have a smart meter yet. Here in Victoria pretty much the whole state has them now and are mandatory by the end of 2013, not sure about NSW but I would imagine they would have a similar scenario.
Feeding back to the grid used to be about 60c, but yeah in Vic it's only about 8c, more or less the same to NSW.
Compliments on your lovely home and congratulations on a nice solar system installation.
Yep, gas meter & gas hot water system, electricity meter and fusebox are all generally outside in Australia. Makes it easy for the utility companies to read your meter for billing.
It's always interesting to see the various ways this stuff is done in different countries, but yeah, I don't think I've ever seen something where each breaker is treated as a separate unit just mounted on a board of some sort; the Dutch, French, and US systems I'm familiar with all have some sort of rail or frame that the breakers/fuses mount on or in.
the ripple controll receiver is for switching between peak and off peak
hot water in nsw isnt controled it just has its own meter
He explained in the video, but one is for tracking total power usage, and the other tracks the power generated by the panels.
Definitely going to the blog for more feedback. Dave, the inverter, do something about that. Need to know how they sync the inverter to the grid.
Ripple control involves superimposing a higher-frequency signal (usually between 100 and 1600 Hz) onto the standard 50-60 Hz of the main power signal.
When ripple control receiver receive this signal, they shut down the load until the signal is disabled or another frequency signal is received.
Ripple control systems are used for switching tariffs, street lightning or other loads
The panels preform better in a cold environment. So as long as the sun shines they should work very well in the winter.
makes sense, we have a dual rate tarif here and the meter is supposed to get a time signal to sync, but its out of sync since fitted 8 years ago.. the guy didnt know how to set the time on it, and said dont worry it will sync one day.. so its been off since then. not by much, but its odd its never got the signal, the UK has all one main supply
What about mounting two photo diodes on the new net meters? You could track and graph the usage even better, since the sunnyboy only will see the solar side of the circuit.
Not quite. They are measuring alternating current, so the direction of the power flow isn't detectable, unless you keep track of the current and the voltage across every half-cycle.
Disconnect the inverter and add a load, and the meter would probably measure power through the load as if it was generated.
Yep, it's just been common practice in finland for at least last 40 years to run 3-phase to every detached house. But that is, with cold winters and no gas network for most part.
I am in WA and the tarrif per kw used is about 26c (per unit), and we get nearly 9cents per unit exported to the grid, We have had our PV system for about 3 months or so, the first billing period we did use the ducted refridg aircond and saved in the region of some $600 (we also used the oven and washer when the sun was shining).
Did the installers put a isolator on the roof? (new rule from the solar council or some such organisation) this is to isolate the HV DC run from panels to inverter
Could you run piping and heat sinks to the solar panels, receive a boon to the power production and perhaps pull some hot water off of them? Make that gas heater work a bit less?
Good point. I've been thinking of a semi-DIY systems approach using foil-backed "bead-board" they call it in the states. Place Cu tubes in contact with the foil side, pressed down into, compressing the foam, then put the [foam&foil&Cu-tube] sandwich in a frame that holds it in firm contact with the back of the PV panel. Solder the Cu tube ends into a manifold at the top and bottom of the sandwich. Use some of the PV DC to run a pump moving Ethelene Glycol thru the tubes, to a heat exchanger.
My hot water is on tariff 33, just need to ensure it's a big enough storage system (Not one that only heats when in use).
I've never run out of hot water, even when I had a fairly major leak in one of the hot water pipes under the house (didn't notice for a while).
Funny Fuse Box :-D They do look different here in Germany :-)
It's weird to see fuses on the fuse box (I know, the name is fuse box, so it's normal to have fuses inside), but here on Brazil, we aren't allowed to use fuses, only circuit breakers.
Australian standard is 230V, 50Hz (single phase) or 400V, 50 Hz (three phase).
The old standard was 240V, but there is an effort to bring AU and EU standards in to line.
if you want to use the software on your computer for the inverter look for a SMA sunny beam as it has a usb connection so you can monitor your usage on the computer
The model he installed in this video has two MPP trackers, meaning loss from shading can be minimized by having to separate arrays that make partial shading a much less significant issue.
Ooh, that sounds interesting! So the voltage (water and gas too?) meter is in a buried box, together with the main fuse, and the normal fusebox is still inside the house?
Hi Dave. I have the same SMA inverter (but with Sanyo/Panasonic panels) and probably at this time you will already know that you don't need the SMA Sunny Beam box (expensive for what it does) but just the free software Sunny Explorer to monitor your system on a PC. Hope this can help. Oh, btw, Great production to be in winter!
That is no longer the case. The government has dropped their rebate. It's now 6-8 cents only from some retailers.
Very nice indeed. I wonder could we modify to increase efficiency of Solar panels. What if we were to put a TEG system along the back of the panels and rails to generate excess DC to feed back into the inverter. I mean if you harness more of the loses wouldn't that increase your DC feedback to save more money?
These must be consumer grade panels. I've been involved in production of 475W+ ones some time ago. Testing process is quite interesting as well: to determine the output of the panel it is getting fed into a flashing machine which generates an intense flash of light. The rating then recorded and assigned as its maximum output.
We generally have 240V 10A AC outlets here in Australia, suitable for most applications. Some more powerful air conditioning systems require 3-phase, as do alot of industrial devices such as inductive motors, but generally single phase is enough for home appliances.
It's cold if I have to put a jumper on.
Dave, have you considered harnessing the excess energy into a battery grid to stop double dipping?
Was watching some videos from the UK where they also store power from the off peak system at lower rates for use in the day. Obviously how useful that would be depends on inverter and battery efficiency though :(
Trying to maximise efficiency can drive you nuts I think, I even looked at converting house lighting to lower voltages to improve efficiency.
I still can't get my head round that June/July etc is classed as winter in Auss. It would feel so weird living there and all those UK summer months being classed as winter.
You'll be very happy with you investment Dave, I know I was, and the funny thing is, you actually look forward to your power bill. My last power bill was $35 and that's during a Perth summer with A/C going most days and nights, I also have a 3kw system west facing. Oh BTW, you'll be running around the house now switching things off and being more energy conscious.
With a feed in tariff (in most states) of about $0.22 and a feed out tariff of about $0.44, there's a 10 year pay off over here (Australia) too.
Over here in the Netherlands both readings get cancelled against each other, so if you produce 5 kWh during the day and use 6 kWh during the night we only have to pay 1 kWh.
Feed-in tarifs over here are comparable though. (exces production)
You forgot to mention where your new meters were made
So your breaker box is on the outside? Here in the US we have them on the inside. Also most people are upgrading to 200A panels anymore.
Yes, possible, but I don't want the expense and maintenance. Not worth it when you are grid connected.
The number of regulations and building codes you had to work around was crazy! Building projects like these are so much easier where I live: No enforced building codes! :D
depends where you live. In Queensland Ergon only allow you to have a 5kW inverter. More panels just mean you get a peak for a long period of the day.
Itron meters used to be made about 5 miles from where I live here in England, and now they've shipped all production overseas. Itron is owned by a religious organisation, and at the Felixstowe plant, there is a large church on the side of the factory
Great video. Looking forward to some of the data on these.
It depends completely on how much you are currently paying for power, here in California the average time for ROI is about 7 years. Even less for large commercial projects, but that is because they pay outrageous amounts of money for their power.
Wow, just had a look and it seems like you can sell your solar excess for 54c/kWh here in Ontario, Canada! Going to have to look into this...
Sydeny is almost one of the worlds most expensive places to by realestate. More expensive than Manhattan, Paris and London.
Are you ever going to show the inside of the inverter? :P
What, & void his warranty?
Don't turn it on - take it apart!
(Mind you, my inverter is staying closed for the time being. I have a pretty good idea of what's involved in generating 3kW of single phase 230Vac from a bunch of DC)
An RF transmitter that causes 230Vac as a side effect?
BIG capacitors for starters, hence his keeping it closed. #goodlifechoices
I wonder... If you buy a kilowatt for 26c, and the company pays only 6c for your produced KW, wouldn't be wiser to add a battery bank and go off-grid? You have the panels already... Thx for the vid!
No, batteries are very expensive, and we use most of the power during the day.
EEVblog How expensive? By what percent would battery prices have to drop for them to make sense? Tesla says the are going to make Lithium-ion batteries 40% cheaper by 2017
sfguy2000 Batteries regardless of the tech cost about 800$ per kWh. If you use 12 kWh a day and 6 of those during the evening/night you need at least 5000$ worth of batteries. They life for about 2000 charging cycles, so each cycle cost 2,5$.. Here in Germany electricity is about 25c/kWh, so the battery-cost alone would be equal to just buying the electricity. Addidionally you loose 6*6c=36c for not supplying it to the grid, so you actually loose money. Therefore we are about at the break even-point. If the price drops further and the lifetime gets better it should be worthwhile to install Batteries at home in a couple of years.
Thanks for the numbers. So if the batteries cost $800 a kWh and you have 2000 cycles, wouldn't each cycle cost $800/2000 = 40c?
sfguy2000 800$ buy you one kWh. To get through the night you need alt least 6 or 7 kWh. Therefore 6*800$ = roughly 5000$.
Chris was rocking a can of V, love that stuff
I never could understand how a grid tie inverter can parallel with the grid, or how a meter could measure in which direction the energy is flowing given that it's AC current, or how the energy gets used in the house first before it gets exported.
Dave, does it produce any sine distortions or noise when switching between solar/grid. I just bought a house in Arizona with the same inverter model installed and being a musician/audiophile myself really concerned about my power hungry tube amps especially during some recording. Is it better just to switch panels off during music activities involving power sensitive equipment? Someone told me once - never run 500W tube guitar amp from DC/AC inverter. Can you test your sinusoidal characteristics?
Hi Dave, - another great one - well done - really look forward to yr videos -I learn a lot & have a laugh!! best thing on the web! Keep On!
Here in Florida, the power company pays the same amount for purchased power and I pay them for my power. It varies by state here and some pay a lot more, some pay wholesale, just depends.
Hey Dave, Go download the Sunny Explorer software, you can monitor the performance from your pc without going outside :)
you have a lovely looking house. hope your solar system is worth it, and your happy with it.
Hm, I heard of some tricks to disable those mechanic meters, yes ;)
Interesting to hear all these different types of infrastructures btw!
I would love to see some proper stats and analysis in say 6 months, but a year would be fairer to cover seasons. maybe an inside and out side thermal log is in order. And what is a linked comment??!
Not sure what you're saying here...
Keep the weeds away from the solar panels?
How much to the solar panel cases weigh?
Perhaps you mean tear down?
not really much point on a solar panel, just about everything is visible as is. Perhaps the bypass diode in the junction box on the back of the panel may be of interest...
Appears as documented a rather well done installation. As panels get hot, and work more efficiently when cooler, you might consider a hydronic loop which will cool panels and pre-heat (or heat) your domestic water. Why waste that heat, mate!
The Australian government gives rebates for solar installations, last time i checked it was about 8k, I think it is less now.
It's not cold here, I took that jumper off an hour later.
You could charge a battery bank during the day and use it to run lights etc at night and use even less grid power.
Yes, think I should frequent the forums more often, too. I have been a long time viewer but haven't really participated in discussions before.
I have a SolarMax inverter, it's nice too!, But the best is a solar tracker system, this boost your solar production.
I bet the off-grid invertor would cost quite a bit more. This one you got I am guessing uses the grid power to match the frequency making it easier and cheaper to invert.
I've heard that those SMA inverters have a lot less EMI compared to the cheaper chinese branded ones so I think you have made the right choice and paid a bit extra. Apparently you can't use an AM radio near the cheaper ones :(
Those do exist, but the ones that I saw at a company that made them are bloody expensive as there is a series of aluminum plates behind the whole array and loads of copper pipes for the coolant. As such, they are usually used in building integrated systems where appearance is a big deal and worth the price premium. Separate (and MUCH cheaper) hot water collectors are the more common solution.
Do you have any pictures of the breaker panel with the cover off? It looks like it would be difficult to get to the actual electrical bus.
even if i did, to get one of those we have at least 50% import duty plus ~6 times the cost(relativ to wages) and you can't sell power to the utilities, so energy costs will keep being costs, you pay them or start using candles
There would have been one meter for tariff 33 (Electric hot water if it was installed). I'm assuming that's the one that is still there.
Tariff 11, being standard rate, would have been on the meter that was replaced.
I can't be certain, but I believe Dave's fuse box is fairly old and a more modern one would be DIN mounted receptacles with an escutcheon plate over it
Can you do a video on how a fuse box works and how it's wired up to the house? Always wanted to know
Do you find when running with the solar eletricity your light bulbs around the house are brighter and have a more sunshine sort of colour? Also do you have a special grid only feed for your fridge and freezer because clearly the solar eletric is too hot for them.
This is very common in Australia, Even get a bonus rate from the supplier/gov, with out looking its something like +20c. I'm in credit, have not payed a bill in 12 months
Ah, that explains it. Despite the Australian winter being as cold as Dave says, it is still quite warm to the majority of Europe. Add in the fact that most of our houses have natural gas which greatly reduces electricity use if gas heating is used.
Can you please answer this . What do you think about the sickness people "get" from the "smart meter" ?
Wow, you got everything like your fusebox and gasmeter outside?! Is that usual over there, or does it just happen to be like that on your house? Here in Europe we got everything inside the house, as far as I know.