If you asked HMV they would have said it's because this machine was scientifically designed for optimum sound reproduction. True or not, they did know their stuff, and close to a century later these machines are still working well when properly cared for and serviced.
The only distortion I have personally noticed is from particularly loud passages although a lot of that could just be the sensitivity of my ears and of course I learned playing my 1950 Gene Autry record was a mistake because even with soft tone needles, it was too loud and it heavily distorted but I don't think the reproducer was damaged or anything because when I went back to 20s, 30s, and 40s records I knew, it sounded the way it did last time. I guess having an orthophonic reproducer makes it able to handle loudness like that.
Did you know that Columbia made a Model as late as December 1960? I actually saw one in an Antique Shop some years back; it was BRAND NEW and unused found in a Loft. It still had all the Paperwork with it, and also the date of manufacture - cost - Receipt etc. I went home to think about buying it. (which was stupid of me - and why I can’t imagine since it was only £90.00) I came back - and it was gone... No surprise. I was heartbroken, and it took me a LONG time to get over it. Agreed; this HMV Model is an excellent Machine. The rarest of all the colours for some reason I believe is the Green, of which I am lucky enough to have. (and I know you do too of course) Thanks for sharing the great Video.
The later Columbia portables were essentially the same as the HMV badged ones with Columbia retaining some of their excellent reproducers after the merger with HMV to form EMI in 1931. 1960 was also the last year the HMV 102 was sold, it had been selling overstock since stopping production in 1958.
@@Rockisland1903 That's interesting. I didn’t know that, This Columbia I saw was actually dated on the Machine as being made in December 1960 though, so I wonder if that year was the last - or maybe they went into 1961? Difficult to know or sure I guess. I SO regret not getting it when I had the chance... :- {
I am not too familiar with what Columbia was up to in the UK, but as they were also part of EMI I imagine they would have been shut down at the same time HMV stopped production. In the USA Columbia ended up being first run by the UK branch after the company went insolvent and the UK branch became independent. Later on the USA Columbia became absorbed into what is now CBS, Columbia Broadcasting System.@@nintendy
How do you think the HMV 102 compares to the table top model HMV 130? I was wondering how big was the difference in sound quality, since I might have the option to get 1 of those.
HMV‘s are somewhat thin on the ground here in the states so I have no direct experience with the 130. The 102 compares favorably with the Victor companies premium portables of the late 1920s the VV - 2-55, and the VV - 2-60. Of the two of them only the 55 is orthophonic.
Thank you, I don't know everything about these machines, but I try and share what I do know. I see too many videos with a machine playing a record, usually badly because the machine isn't properly serviced, and nothing is said about the machine. I want to know what it is, when it was made, who made it, what reproducer, what color, how many springs and anything special about the machine. The HMV machines have a great history behind them. the 102 was around from 1932-1958, and sold until inventory ran out sometime in the early 60's. That's a run matched by no other phonograph of any one type.
It's possible that there is such a web page, but I don't know about it. I have a big book of HMV's that I imported from the UK some years back, it cost me $75 US dollars then, I am told it's hundreds of dollars now. The book has year ranges for each of the letter suffix's such as 102C, 102D and so on. Often you can get a close idea of the year by looking at how it's built. "bullets" sticking out of the motor board close to the turntable for instance would indicate 1932-1935 as these were used to stop the record tray from moving in these years. Motorboard flush with the top edge of the lower case with no cutout in the case for a winding handle would mean 102E or H and would be post 1948 to 1958. Steel motorboard would be the original 102's 1932-1934. . The book is His Masters Gramophone by Brian Oakley & Christopher Proudfoot
102E, the one with the motorboard flush with the top of the case, no winding shaft hole. Nice machine, I have one in black. The Electrola 101 is the UK built HMV 101 with the Electrola water decal, 101's were very popular machines. They always had a great sound, as the Gramophone Company describes them, " scientifically designed"
The Victor Victrola VV-2-55 sounds as good as the 102, but what kills it is the weight and use of potmetal parts for the tonearm support. Size too for that matter. Victor came up with the design of the box later slightly modified for use in the HMV-100 by The Gramophone company, and later modified a bit more for the 101-102. Victors was the VV-35, but they dropped the case design after less than 2 years. The premium players they used during the later years of the 20's were large and very heavy, the 2-55 used a steel case. They had smaller machines but the build quality of the box's and the materials used do not rise to the level of the 101-102 HMV's, sound doesn't either. HMV managed to get an excellent sound out of a much simpler reproducer than Victors Orthophonics,. No "spiders" or ball bearing fulcrums on the needlebars yet the sound is excellent with the 5B, and 5a when you can find one that hasn't crumbled apart. The 102 has it all, light weight, quality built case, excellent sound, easy to maintain, and it's a tough machine that holds up well over time. It wasn't for nothing that HMV was able to keep selling them from 1932-1958 with leftover stock selling to at least 1960. Victrola also had the 2-65, and this machine did have an excellent sound, problem was it was the last gasp of the Victor company after RCA took over. The case is a cheap build, potmetal parts, just not up to earlier quality standards of Eldridge Johnsons Victor Talking Machine Company. I tend to find them in horrible condition, but I did get one playing using parts from four or five other machines. Nice sound, but the machine itself is not in the 102's class.
Thanks for the informative reply, you know your stuff.. Still at the beginnings of the hobby, but I looked into what portable to buy and all that came back was the 102.. I would like a C, D, or E, but in really clean condition go for more than I can spend at the moment.. This hobby has really bitten me and loving it.. Thanks again..
The 102H is the best of the 102's, this model was produced for the UK home market during the 1950's. It's recognizable instantly by the lack of a crank opening in the side of the case. This was because they raised the motorboard to sit flush with the top of the lower half of the case, the overall size of the box increased slightly to compensate for this. The crank opening is now protected under the lid of the case when it's closed. 5B reproducer for most of them, and it remains normal 102 other than the case. Excellent machines, I have a video up of one of mine playing. All the 102's are good, some of the earliest models with the pressed steel motorboard can have temperamental auto brakes, and of course the c's used the 5a that is prone to swelling and cracking, but it's easily equipped with a 5b.
Yeah I have a 5b on my 1938 model.. Auto brake works a treat so far fingers crossed.. I won't collect 1950's 78's as Im in to the early Jazz Swing and war stuff.. Struggle sometimes to watch YT, but will get through yours.. Really love how you talk your way through them...
Most gramophone videos on youtube are put there by eBay sellers trying to sell a machine they know little about and haven't serviced them at all. Seeing all the tonearms being placed on the wrong side of the record, improper record speed, old needles, and terrible sound due to unserviced reproducers drove me crazy. I also sell machines sometimes and I use youtube to show my machines playing. I have over 100 machines as it is with more coming all the time so I need to sell some of them or end up living outdoors forced out by the size of my collection. I want to be sure people buying my machines will take care of them properly so I give as much information as I can remember, no script or production crew so I forget things, but that's what the next video is good for, filling in the blanks. It's mostly VV-50's and VV-VI's that I sell off as these are the most common machines for me to find, I end up with more than I can care for, for each I sell I own ten more similar to it. Couldn't part with them otherwise. 95% of my record collection was pressed before 1925, I have a box or two of Victrola electrics and some blue label Decca discs for the 102's. Playing 1950's era records on my early Victrola's is pointless, they will never sound right, always loud, and the higher fidelity recordings are wasted on machines that can't reproduce that level of sound. The 102 will, but over time it would eat these softer late 78's, it would take longer doing it than the VV-50 with it's heavy brass reproducer, the people who made these machines didn't care if they ate a record in 50 or 100 plays. If the record started to sound bad you would go buy another copy, and that was good for the record makers, or the record making division of the same company that sold you the player. Today we can't just stroll down to the store and buy another stack of records to replace the ones we wore out. I have all the 50's stuff on CD anyway, that's stuff for the car shows and such. The Victrola was at it's height during the Jazz age, there is no better way to hear the music of that time than to listen to it coming out of the same machines that were used then.
Black was the basic color and the most common, green is the hardest to find but red is the most popular of the colored machines, at least today it is going by the prices red brings. I like the blue, it is a good looking color on these machines.
I am told that the original business that supplied the material to HMV is still alive and well someplace in the UK, and the material is available. I have never had to recover any of my machines so I never looked them up. You may have to do some internet searching to find them.
I just got one. I don't how to move the reproducer to the right position. Does not move like others model? It's too tide. I don't to force it. Thank you for your help.
Are you saying that the tonearm will not move at all. or just that the reproducer itself will not rotate on the tonearm so that it can be removed off of the tone arm? Have you oiled everything? The tonearm mount, the elbow, and the isolator gasket on the back of the tonearm? Are you having the reproducer rebuilt? These only need that if they have been damaged as the gaskets are felt except for the back isolator gasket. You could remove the three screws holding the tonearm assembly to the motorboard and send the entire arm to your repair place and let them deal with it. It's hard for me to say what the problem might be without seeing what is going on, Make a video of the problem and link it here.
I am not familiar with a Columbia 113a, I will have to look it up. I do have a Model 112, and a couple of 202's, a Pillard branded as a Columbia, and at least one 204, some await service before I can play them. Columbia portables have issues with potmetal in some years. Potmetal breakdown, but when they are together and functional they play very well. Garrard motors in the UK built machines, as time passed the Columbia models became almost indistinguishable from the HMV's, they were all good machines.
Turns out I am familiar with the Columbia 113, it seems I have one, or rather two of them. I bought them a couple of years ago, one is a rough parts machine, the other is waiting for me to get around to finishing the cleaning. I had forgotten about it, the reproducer was a bit of a challenge with the isolator, it's not something reproduced so I had to make my own gaskets, but I did manage to get it sealed up and working with enough freedom of movement to properly track . That's important, isolator gaskets that turn to stone with age restrict the reproducers ability to track in the groove and this does impact sound but more importantly it causes record wear and damage over time. Yes, I remember now, that reproducer is a nice piece of work but it took me hours to get it right. The rest of the machine will need more scrubbing, it's grubby and smells of mold
Not that I recall. I have a few VV-1-70's, similar case design, but not Orthophonic. These machines have a few things going against them, potmetal being the big one. Potmetal tonearm support and reproducer crumble with age. Ash trim didn't hold up to damage as well as solid mahogany, same issues as the 1-70, and other late date Victrolas. The 1-90 was around until '29, RCA did away with it.
I just got one similar to this and I can get it to spin, but once I place the needle on, it applies too much pressure, scrapes the record and stops it from spinning. Any idea why that is?
The motor needs cleaning, if it hasn't been done then the grease inside the spring can is like cement and it is holding back the springs power, the governor and friction pad need lubrication. That's the number one reason, two would be a serviced motor with a weak spring. Three is a badly worn, or dirty record. Records in that condition will stop a small spring motor dead, you might get away with it on a big multi spring floor or tabletop machine, but not a small portable. The machine in the video had grease so hard and dry that the turntable was locked up and wouldn't move at all. I am assuming that your machine is an HMV 101, or 102, other machines could have tone arm, or tone arm mount issues caused by potmetal corrosion , swelling and breakage, reproducer damage.
I have had the blue and the brown croc 101, not the grey yet. I have not had a grey 102, much harder to find any HMV's here in the states. I have been lucky to come across what I have, including several colonial models like the teak 112 that in size reminds me of the Victor Victrola 50 portable. The 50 was never offered with a two spring motor, it's heavy enough with the one spring.
Lots of variables here, is it a colored machine like the one in the video? All colored machines past basic black command higher prices, but some colors are more rare, or in demand than others. The most rare I can think of would be pink, or the red with gold hardware. Green is another hard to find color. Then of course there is condition. Has the machine been serviced? If you have to send these machines out to do the service I do to them it will run several hundred dollars depending on who and were you send it, plus shipping back and forth, and any needed parts like reproducer gaskets, and springs. Then there is your location, on the UK market these machines bring more than the US market, but that is changing as more US collectors become aware of how nice these machines are. Basket case will run 1-2 hundred USD, top condition green or red could go 1400 USD. Basic nice condition and fully serviced black 102 D around 600 USD. You can get lucky and find them cheaper from random eBay sellers, but these will not be serviced machines, and after decades of storage they all need service, these more than most due to the nasty lubricants HMV used back then that tend to turn to stone.
I know I've asked you questions before and thank you for your replies, but I have another question. I recently played an Annette Hanshaw record and recorded it and uploaded it to my (new) UA-cam channel (Stephen Physick). Someone commented on it saying it was running too fast. I'm not a gramophone guy, I just use the couple I've got to listen to the old 78s that I've got. If the slide speed dial is at 78rpm (on my HMV 102), then how can it be running fast ? I know there are Strobe discs to check speed (not got one) but if a strobe disc indicated that it was running fast, how can this be fixed ? An explanation would be appreciated (Or could the record be recorded at a high speed ? ) Bewildered Englishman. !!!
I don't think I have ever had any HMV, Victor, Columbia, or other machine that was at the correct speed as indicated on the dial. That only happened after I did the full service and set the speed indicator to 78rpm myself. Some records are 80 rpm, most are 78, if they play at 80 it will say it on the label. I set the speed using a stroboscope disc that will regulate to 78 rpm when operating under a 60hz AC light source, in my case a common, old fashioned incandescent lightbulb. There are other devises used to set speed, but they are expensive, and often rare antiques. HMV 102 speed controls are adjustable by lifting off the turntable , and loosening the screws were the friction leather arm comes up from the motor. The bracket around that is adjustable. Move it only is very small increments once you have the screws loose. Worn friction leather, loose governor shaft bearing caps, motor in need of cleaning or lubrication, all these can cause speed to get out of adjustment. Setting the speed can be a time consuming pain in the ass, but it is necessary if you want to play records. Failing to properly adjust the speed means you either have records that sound like Lurch from the Addams Family recorded them, or Alvin and the Chipmunks did it.
I listened to some of the videos, if it's off then it's not off by much, but then I am not a records collector, I am a machine guy. I know how to clean up and repair the machines, but I do not have a record collectors/ audiophile's trained ear that can pick up on things like a small speed discrepancy. One bit of advice I do know, it's better to keep some distance between the cameras microphone, and the front of the reproducer or risk vastly increased surface hiss being picked up. Even cheap phone microphones these days are better than some of the best recording devises we had 40 years ago, or 20 years ago, even 10. They pick up things my Panasonic cassette player hand held mic would have missed. When I do closeups on a playing reproducer now I stay well back from the machine and let the camera's zoom feature do the closeup. That way I get the closeup, but not the extra noise.
Rockisland1903 yeah the guy commented the Annette Hanshaw sounded like Betty boop !!! As I already said, I'm not a gramophone guy like you, so I couldn't undertake something like what you suggest to fix it. I wouldn't want to foul it up with a mistake. So it looks like I'll just have to keep on recording at the wrong speed !!! But to me it doesn't sound that far out. Thanks
Rockisland1903 ...... I understand what you mean by the hiss, but for me I'm not bothered about it that much. It shows it was well used and possibly liked by someone in the 1920s, or 1930s, that's OK by me. Possibly that could be the reason why I've not got many subscribers, being so close at times to the unit with the iPad camera. It's the only means I have to record. But I was fed up with just seeing other videos of just the same shot of a portable playing a record from a distance, always the same over and over again. So I decided I'd be different and do close up shots. It's the music after all that people want so why should they mind if it's a close up !!!! But yes possibly the hiss might be something a viewer might not like. 😬
I know these machines are highly collectable and sought after by collectors in the UK, there must be somebody offering to service them. I know at least six here in the US who operate small businesses repairing Gramophones, or phonographs as they are known here. This is not a cheap service, 150-450 US dollars over here for a full service and cleaning, parts and mechanical repairs extra. Ask the internet, somebody has to be doing this, even if they do it like I do and work from a tiny shed . Set the speed with the stroboscope disk, if the speed control isn't pointing to 78 when you are done then that's OK, irritating, but what matters is the turntable is at the correct speed.
What is the title of the Ambrose record, and how many colors did the machine come in ? I have a red one and it sounds more like a small radio than a phonograph.You can hear bass notes.
Ambrose & His Orchestra - Caravan. Pink, blue, green, brown, tan, grey, red, black, probably something I am forgetting. It should have better sound than a small radio, possibly the reproducer needs attention. Bent or damaged needlebar, corrosion holes in the aluminum diaphragm, moth eaten felt gaskets. The sound should boom out of a 102 depending on the needle used. Early 5a reproducers are known for cracks and swelling, so are the 5b's but to a lesser extent. The earliest models have the #16, these are not rebuildable, they work, or they don't. If you are in the USA Walt Sommers Gettysburg Antique Phonographs should be able to set it right. He does Victrola orthophonics, and the HMV models have similarities. Expect the cost to be around $50, more if parts are needed. If it's past recovery due to metal issues he can likely supply a Victor Orthophonic reproducer that will work, and fit the tone arm. The motor likely needs service, if you don't do this yourself you can send it to various places that do this work, but they change around $150-$300 on average. The red color 102 is a popular choice, they are sought after, and expensive when found in good condition. Worth putting a few bucks into it to have it performing it's best. It's amazing how nice these machines sound when properly serviced.
This one sold years ago, it's new owner reports that it is still playing well. You can find these on UK eBay, but they are expensive, and most will need a full service before they will play well, or at all.
What a great looking HMV 102. As macnerd93 states, these look really well in blue. Congratulations on restoring the motor. But I can't agree with MrQuintonia and others that this model "is generally thought to be the best portable gramophone player ever built". For one thing the soundbox is far from satisfactory (even HMV wasn't satisfied with it), adding extraneous background noises to the sound; the top and bottom of the case is usually compressed cardboard; and the bass response is poor compared with the previous model 101. Having heard all sorts of gramophones (phonographs in the USA) for 50 years as a collector, the very best portable without a doubt is the Decca 120 (which has a normal motor board) or 130 (which has a polished mickel-plated metal affair). Both have the tone-arm in the centre at the back, with a large Paillard soundbox that was also used on their cabinet models, and a bifurcated folded horn that divides either side of the motor to emerge the full width at the back of the cabinet. The bass response is phenomenal for a portable, with the natural sound putting even cabinet machines to shame.
Decca portables are even harder to find here than HMV's, I know of the 120-130 but so far they have eluded me, I only have one Decca, the Model 10 I have in another video. The Paillard reproducers on the other hand I do know. The Swiss had no pesky agreements keeping them out of the US market, after Victor gave up producing premium portables in 1932 the Swiss stepped right in selling portable machines under their own name, the Thorens name and unbranded machines using Swiss parts. My favorite would be the variety of machines that used the chrome plated steel motorboard, impressive to look at so long as you don't do it in bright sunshine. Paillard reproducers are top shelf, I have a variety of them and they are my go to reproducer when I have a machine lacking one. Many were sold as replacement reproducers well into the 1940's so it's possible to find them new in the box sometimes. HMV used pressboard top and bottom panels, but as the machine was rexine covered this didn't take away much. It made the case lighter, and the material seems to have held up even on some of my most deteriorated parts machines. I will have to bring out one of the big chrome Paillards soon, these were sold by various department stores, upscale ones, the cases can be somewhat heavy with multiple record storage areas and a double spring motor. I have never had an issue with the No5b on the 102, but then the records I play tend to be acoustic era recordings with limited frequency and bass.
I found a black Decca '50' on UK eBay for ~95USD. It has a rebranded Decca version of the Meltrope 3 reproducer which I've heard are some of the best for playing electrical recordings. Looking into buying the machine and I'm going to be very excited if my bid wins the auction.
Rockisland1903, you mentioned in an earlier video about about record composition changing after 1935 and the increased record wear factor using these players. I've given some thought to purchasing a HMV 102 BUT knowing the harm i'm doing to my collection inspite the fabulous sound ,I'm having second thoughts. Why would HMV continue to produce this unit with incompatible records after 1935 ?
Because in the 1950's records were cheap, available , and these machines were intended for occasional use. The 102 is a portable machine that was marketed to travelers and picnickers, it was never intended to take the place of a big home machine. Today the HMV-102 is a highly collectable piece, most who own them are collecting the machine itself and playing records on it would be a secondary concern and something done only occasionally. For more extensive record playing you should acquire a modern turntable and save the wear on both records and an expensive collectable antique. The 5a or 5b reproducer's are made from lightweight weight materials, unfortunately this is potmetal and the 5a in particular is known to swell and crack with age as zinc metal is known to do. The mix was a good one so many times the reproducer is in good condition, or good enough to still be used. This lightweight reproducer is much easier on your later records that the heavy exhibition, or No2 Victrola types are with their heavy brass construction. The tonearm is lightweight as well. Record wear can happen over time with the 102 as with any of the post WW2 acoustic machine of this type, however occasional playing should not be a problem. Use of a smaller low tone or soft tone needle can also help alleviate any wear issues. The 102 is a great machine, however keep in mind that after 50-80 years these machines will need service as did the 1935 model in the video. This means full disassembly, cleaning of all the motor parts, and repacking the spring. Sometimes if the spring is weak or broken then you have to replace it with a new one. Even without service 102's in as found condition with a clean case and no obvious damage can run $250-$650 depending on model , color, record tray, and so on, fully serviced and in excellent condition you could be looking at $600 or more. Colored machines always bring more money, especially the red ones, basic black is your most commonly encountered machine, and your best bet for a good value, anything made after 1940 will not use a record tray, often they are missing anyway. The 102 is an excellent machine, I highly recommend it.
Actually, I once weighted my old fashioned and my "late" reproducers, and I happens that mica soundboxes like the exhibition weight less (150 grams approx) than the aluminium diaphragmed ones like the n°5 series (about 250 grams). I think it is because early acoustic grooves didn't have very loud/detailed modulations compared to electric grooves, so an acoustic box didn't need as much weight as a alu one to force the needle to be moved accurately by the modulations of the groove.
I find them on eBay. HMV did not export gramophones to the USA, this was by handshake agreement with Victor company founder Eldridge Johnson who owned a large chunk of Gramophone Company stock. Victor did not sell in HMV's markets either, so the only way HMV's got into the USA was with tourists returning home from the UK, or Europe, some probably came in from Canada. This makes it hard to find HMV's here, but UK eBay has many of them, and some sellers will export them, but do not expect low prices.
Spend some time on UK eBay and one will turn up. You will have to learn how to service it as most will be attic finds that haven't been used in 60+ years.
Damp ( never wet) cloth with some mild dish soap like Dawn. If there is a mold issue then set it in the sun for a few days rotating it from time to time.
Ambrose & His Orchestra - Caravan. Teak, colonial model, very nice, I have the 100 in oak, the 112 in teak, and the 114 with a brown rexine cover. Haven't seen any teak 102's here yet.
I know emg colonel has one I don't have a 102 I've got a 101 and a few other gramophones I'm waiting on a decca portable from England it's expected to arrive late November mid December
What a beautiful machine! I’m glad there are people out there who care for these musical devices. 😮😊
Amazing volume and fidelity!
As good as the acoustic spring powered phonograph would get. These are great machines.
This is awesome. I wish I could find and purchase one. Thanks for sharing!
The tracking on those Orthophonic type soundboxes is amazing. None of the buzz and blare that even cheap LP cartridges can have.
If you asked HMV they would have said it's because this machine was scientifically designed for optimum sound reproduction. True or not, they did know their stuff, and close to a century later these machines are still working well when properly cared for and serviced.
The only distortion I have personally noticed is from particularly loud passages although a lot of that could just be the sensitivity of my ears and of course I learned playing my 1950 Gene Autry record was a mistake because even with soft tone needles, it was too loud and it heavily distorted but I don't think the reproducer was damaged or anything because when I went back to 20s, 30s, and 40s records I knew, it sounded the way it did last time. I guess having an orthophonic reproducer makes it able to handle loudness like that.
Did you know that Columbia made a Model as late as December 1960? I actually saw one in an Antique Shop some years back; it was BRAND NEW and unused found in a Loft. It still had all the Paperwork with it, and also the date of manufacture - cost - Receipt etc. I went home to think about buying it. (which was stupid of me - and why I can’t imagine since it was only £90.00) I came back - and it was gone... No surprise. I was heartbroken, and it took me a LONG time to get over it. Agreed; this HMV Model is an excellent Machine. The rarest of all the colours for some reason I believe is the Green, of which I am lucky enough to have. (and I know you do too of course) Thanks for sharing the great Video.
The later Columbia portables were essentially the same as the HMV badged ones with Columbia retaining some of their excellent reproducers after the merger with HMV to form EMI in 1931. 1960 was also the last year the HMV 102 was sold, it had been selling overstock since stopping production in 1958.
@@Rockisland1903 That's interesting. I didn’t know that, This Columbia I saw was actually dated on the Machine as being made in December 1960 though, so I wonder if that year was the last - or maybe they went into 1961? Difficult to know or sure I guess. I SO regret not getting it when I had the chance... :- {
I am not too familiar with what Columbia was up to in the UK, but as they were also part of EMI I imagine they would have been shut down at the same time HMV stopped production. In the USA Columbia ended up being first run by the UK branch after the company went insolvent and the UK branch became independent. Later on the USA Columbia became absorbed into what is now CBS, Columbia Broadcasting System.@@nintendy
How do you think the HMV 102 compares to the table top model HMV 130? I was wondering how big was the difference in sound quality, since I might have the option to get 1 of those.
HMV‘s are somewhat thin on the ground here in the states so I have no direct experience with the 130. The 102 compares favorably with the Victor companies premium portables of the late 1920s the VV - 2-55, and the VV - 2-60. Of the two of them only the 55 is orthophonic.
@@Rockisland1903 Alright, I see. Thank you very much for helping me!
I just got a green one made about the same year last night in the mail and I've been loving it.
Excellent, informative video. Thank you!
Thank you, I don't know everything about these machines, but I try and share what I do know. I see too many videos with a machine playing a record, usually badly because the machine isn't properly serviced, and nothing is said about the machine. I want to know what it is, when it was made, who made it, what reproducer, what color, how many springs and anything special about the machine. The HMV machines have a great history behind them. the 102 was around from 1932-1958, and sold until inventory ran out sometime in the early 60's. That's a run matched by no other phonograph of any one type.
Hi there! I have a question on how to identify when an HMV was made, is there a website or something that tells you how it works?
It's possible that there is such a web page, but I don't know about it. I have a big book of HMV's that I imported from the UK some years back, it cost me $75 US dollars then, I am told it's hundreds of dollars now. The book has year ranges for each of the letter suffix's such as 102C, 102D and so on. Often you can get a close idea of the year by looking at how it's built. "bullets" sticking out of the motor board close to the turntable for instance would indicate 1932-1935 as these were used to stop the record tray from moving in these years. Motorboard flush with the top edge of the lower case with no cutout in the case for a winding handle would mean 102E or H and would be post 1948 to 1958. Steel motorboard would be the original 102's 1932-1934. . The book is His Masters Gramophone by Brian Oakley & Christopher Proudfoot
I recently acquired my 1954 HMV-102. Love it! Took a bit to restore but well worth it! I must say my Electrola 101 is not far behind in sound quality!
102E, the one with the motorboard flush with the top of the case, no winding shaft hole. Nice machine, I have one in black. The Electrola 101 is the UK built HMV 101 with the Electrola water decal, 101's were very popular machines. They always had a great sound, as the Gramophone Company describes them, " scientifically designed"
@@Rockisland1903 yes! My 102 is black as well.
@@ThePhonographStop I also have a later one, although mine's from 1949, it's in Red And has amazing sound.
The HMV 102 is generally thought to be the best portable gramophone player ever built.. Good vid mate..
The Victor Victrola VV-2-55 sounds as good as the 102, but what kills it is the weight and use of potmetal parts for the tonearm support. Size too for that matter. Victor came up with the design of the box later slightly modified for use in the HMV-100 by The Gramophone company, and later modified a bit more for the 101-102. Victors was the VV-35, but they dropped the case design after less than 2 years. The premium players they used during the later years of the 20's were large and very heavy, the 2-55 used a steel case. They had smaller machines but the build quality of the box's and the materials used do not rise to the level of the 101-102 HMV's, sound doesn't either. HMV managed to get an excellent sound out of a much simpler reproducer than Victors Orthophonics,. No "spiders" or ball bearing fulcrums on the needlebars yet the sound is excellent with the 5B, and 5a when you can find one that hasn't crumbled apart. The 102 has it all, light weight, quality built case, excellent sound, easy to maintain, and it's a tough machine that holds up well over time. It wasn't for nothing that HMV was able to keep selling them from 1932-1958 with leftover stock selling to at least 1960. Victrola also had the 2-65, and this machine did have an excellent sound, problem was it was the last gasp of the Victor company after RCA took over. The case is a cheap build, potmetal parts, just not up to earlier quality standards of Eldridge Johnsons Victor Talking Machine Company. I tend to find them in horrible condition, but I did get one playing using parts from four or five other machines. Nice sound, but the machine itself is not in the 102's class.
Thanks for the informative reply, you know your stuff.. Still at the beginnings of the hobby, but I looked into what portable to buy and all that came back was the 102.. I would like a C, D, or E, but in really clean condition go for more than I can spend at the moment.. This hobby has really bitten me and loving it.. Thanks again..
The 102H is the best of the 102's, this model was produced for the UK home market during the 1950's. It's recognizable instantly by the lack of a crank opening in the side of the case. This was because they raised the motorboard to sit flush with the top of the lower half of the case, the overall size of the box increased slightly to compensate for this. The crank opening is now protected under the lid of the case when it's closed. 5B reproducer for most of them, and it remains normal 102 other than the case. Excellent machines, I have a video up of one of mine playing. All the 102's are good, some of the earliest models with the pressed steel motorboard can have temperamental auto brakes, and of course the c's used the 5a that is prone to swelling and cracking, but it's easily equipped with a 5b.
Yeah I have a 5b on my 1938 model.. Auto brake works a treat so far fingers crossed.. I won't collect 1950's 78's as Im in to the early Jazz Swing and war stuff.. Struggle sometimes to watch YT, but will get through yours.. Really love how you talk your way through them...
Most gramophone videos on youtube are put there by eBay sellers trying to sell a machine they know little about and haven't serviced them at all. Seeing all the tonearms being placed on the wrong side of the record, improper record speed, old needles, and terrible sound due to unserviced reproducers drove me crazy. I also sell machines sometimes and I use youtube to show my machines playing. I have over 100 machines as it is with more coming all the time so I need to sell some of them or end up living outdoors forced out by the size of my collection. I want to be sure people buying my machines will take care of them properly so I give as much information as I can remember, no script or production crew so I forget things, but that's what the next video is good for, filling in the blanks. It's mostly VV-50's and VV-VI's that I sell off as these are the most common machines for me to find, I end up with more than I can care for, for each I sell I own ten more similar to it. Couldn't part with them otherwise. 95% of my record collection was pressed before 1925, I have a box or two of Victrola electrics and some blue label Decca discs for the 102's. Playing 1950's era records on my early Victrola's is pointless, they will never sound right, always loud, and the higher fidelity recordings are wasted on machines that can't reproduce that level of sound. The 102 will, but over time it would eat these softer late 78's, it would take longer doing it than the VV-50 with it's heavy brass reproducer, the people who made these machines didn't care if they ate a record in 50 or 100 plays. If the record started to sound bad you would go buy another copy, and that was good for the record makers, or the record making division of the same company that sold you the player. Today we can't just stroll down to the store and buy another stack of records to replace the ones we wore out. I have all the 50's stuff on CD anyway, that's stuff for the car shows and such. The Victrola was at it's height during the Jazz age, there is no better way to hear the music of that time than to listen to it coming out of the same machines that were used then.
How would a 5A reproducer sound on a Columbia 102 from around 1928/29, which I own.
If you could fit it onto the tonearm, I am sure that reproducer would sound very nice on the Columbia
I honestly think the 102 looks best in Blue. Going to be a Christmas treat for myself this year ha ha.
Black was the basic color and the most common, green is the hardest to find but red is the most popular of the colored machines, at least today it is going by the prices red brings. I like the blue, it is a good looking color on these machines.
Is it possible to buy the 'Rexine material' to do a re-cover of one of these portables, a HMV 101 in my case. ?
I am told that the original business that supplied the material to HMV is still alive and well someplace in the UK, and the material is available. I have never had to recover any of my machines so I never looked them up. You may have to do some internet searching to find them.
Restore a gram website had the link to it.
I just got one. I don't how to move the reproducer to the right position. Does not move like others model? It's too tide. I don't to force it. Thank you for your help.
Are you saying that the tonearm will not move at all. or just that the reproducer itself will not rotate on the tonearm so that it can be removed off of the tone arm? Have you oiled everything? The tonearm mount, the elbow, and the isolator gasket on the back of the tonearm? Are you having the reproducer rebuilt? These only need that if they have been damaged as the gaskets are felt except for the back isolator gasket. You could remove the three screws holding the tonearm assembly to the motorboard and send the entire arm to your repair place and let them deal with it. It's hard for me to say what the problem might be without seeing what is going on, Make a video of the problem and link it here.
Thanks for the quick response. can I send you a picture to your email to see what I mean? Thanks.
@@shosha1878 Yes, no problem
I just sent you the link with pictures of the reproducer position.
@@shosha1878 you sent them to
rockisland1903victrola@gmail.com
? Nothing has appeared there yet.
Beautiful
What do you think about the Columbia 113a if you know about it?
I am not familiar with a Columbia 113a, I will have to look it up. I do have a Model 112, and a couple of 202's, a Pillard branded as a Columbia, and at least one 204, some await service before I can play them. Columbia portables have issues with potmetal in some years. Potmetal breakdown, but when they are together and functional they play very well. Garrard motors in the UK built machines, as time passed the Columbia models became almost indistinguishable from the HMV's, they were all good machines.
Turns out I am familiar with the Columbia 113, it seems I have one, or rather two of them. I bought them a couple of years ago, one is a rough parts machine, the other is waiting for me to get around to finishing the cleaning. I had forgotten about it, the reproducer was a bit of a challenge with the isolator, it's not something reproduced so I had to make my own gaskets, but I did manage to get it sealed up and working with enough freedom of movement to properly track . That's important, isolator gaskets that turn to stone with age restrict the reproducers ability to track in the groove and this does impact sound but more importantly it causes record wear and damage over time. Yes, I remember now, that reproducer is a nice piece of work but it took me hours to get it right. The rest of the machine will need more scrubbing, it's grubby and smells of mold
Have you ever seen a VV 1-90 in the wild?
Not that I recall. I have a few VV-1-70's, similar case design, but not Orthophonic. These machines have a few things going against them, potmetal being the big one. Potmetal tonearm support and reproducer crumble with age. Ash trim didn't hold up to damage as well as solid mahogany, same issues as the 1-70, and other late date Victrolas. The 1-90 was around until '29, RCA did away with it.
I just got one similar to this and I can get it to spin, but once I place the needle on, it applies too much pressure, scrapes the record and stops it from spinning. Any idea why that is?
The motor needs cleaning, if it hasn't been done then the grease inside the spring can is like cement and it is holding back the springs power, the governor and friction pad need lubrication. That's the number one reason, two would be a serviced motor with a weak spring. Three is a badly worn, or dirty record. Records in that condition will stop a small spring motor dead, you might get away with it on a big multi spring floor or tabletop machine, but not a small portable. The machine in the video had grease so hard and dry that the turntable was locked up and wouldn't move at all. I am assuming that your machine is an HMV 101, or 102, other machines could have tone arm, or tone arm mount issues caused by potmetal corrosion , swelling and breakage, reproducer damage.
The 102 was made in grey but not in crocodile. At HMV only the 101 was available in crocodile for 1 or 2 years in 3 croc colors: grey / brown / blue.
I have had the blue and the brown croc 101, not the grey yet. I have not had a grey 102, much harder to find any HMV's here in the states. I have been lucky to come across what I have, including several colonial models like the teak 112 that in size reminds me of the Victor Victrola 50 portable. The 50 was never offered with a two spring motor, it's heavy enough with the one spring.
I own a His Master’s Voice 102D model. Can someone tell me what it is worth please ?
Lots of variables here, is it a colored machine like the one in the video? All colored machines past basic black command higher prices, but some colors are more rare, or in demand than others. The most rare I can think of would be pink, or the red with gold hardware. Green is another hard to find color. Then of course there is condition. Has the machine been serviced? If you have to send these machines out to do the service I do to them it will run several hundred dollars depending on who and were you send it, plus shipping back and forth, and any needed parts like reproducer gaskets, and springs. Then there is your location, on the UK market these machines bring more than the US market, but that is changing as more US collectors become aware of how nice these machines are. Basket case will run 1-2 hundred USD, top condition green or red could go 1400 USD. Basic nice condition and fully serviced black 102 D around 600 USD. You can get lucky and find them cheaper from random eBay sellers, but these will not be serviced machines, and after decades of storage they all need service, these more than most due to the nasty lubricants HMV used back then that tend to turn to stone.
@@Rockisland1903I think I saw a green one but it was £175 and the motor wasn't working when I wound it up. So I passed on it.
I know I've asked you questions before and thank you for your replies, but I have another question.
I recently played an Annette Hanshaw record and recorded it and uploaded it to my (new) UA-cam channel (Stephen Physick).
Someone commented on it saying it was running too fast. I'm not a gramophone guy, I just use the couple I've got to listen to the old 78s that I've got. If the slide speed dial is at 78rpm (on my HMV 102), then how can it be running fast ?
I know there are Strobe discs to check speed (not got one) but if a strobe disc indicated that it was running fast, how can this be fixed ?
An explanation would be appreciated
(Or could the record be recorded at a high speed ? )
Bewildered Englishman. !!!
I don't think I have ever had any HMV, Victor, Columbia, or other machine that was at the correct speed as indicated on the dial. That only happened after I did the full service and set the speed indicator to 78rpm myself. Some records are 80 rpm, most are 78, if they play at 80 it will say it on the label. I set the speed using a stroboscope disc that will regulate to 78 rpm when operating under a 60hz AC light source, in my case a common, old fashioned incandescent lightbulb. There are other devises used to set speed, but they are expensive, and often rare antiques. HMV 102 speed controls are adjustable by lifting off the turntable , and loosening the screws were the friction leather arm comes up from the motor. The bracket around that is adjustable. Move it only is very small increments once you have the screws loose. Worn friction leather, loose governor shaft bearing caps, motor in need of cleaning or lubrication, all these can cause speed to get out of adjustment. Setting the speed can be a time consuming pain in the ass, but it is necessary if you want to play records. Failing to properly adjust the speed means you either have records that sound like Lurch from the Addams Family recorded them, or Alvin and the Chipmunks did it.
I listened to some of the videos, if it's off then it's not off by much, but then I am not a records collector, I am a machine guy. I know how to clean up and repair the machines, but I do not have a record collectors/ audiophile's trained ear that can pick up on things like a small speed discrepancy. One bit of advice I do know, it's better to keep some distance between the cameras microphone, and the front of the reproducer or risk vastly increased surface hiss being picked up. Even cheap phone microphones these days are better than some of the best recording devises we had 40 years ago, or 20 years ago, even 10. They pick up things my Panasonic cassette player hand held mic would have missed. When I do closeups on a playing reproducer now I stay well back from the machine and let the camera's zoom feature do the closeup. That way I get the closeup, but not the extra noise.
Rockisland1903 yeah the guy commented the Annette Hanshaw sounded like Betty boop !!!
As I already said, I'm not a gramophone guy like you, so I couldn't undertake something like what you suggest to fix it. I wouldn't want to foul it up with a mistake.
So it looks like I'll just have to keep on recording at the wrong speed !!! But to me it doesn't sound that far out.
Thanks
Rockisland1903 ...... I understand what you mean by the hiss, but for me I'm not bothered about it that much. It shows it was well used and possibly liked by someone in the 1920s, or 1930s, that's OK by me. Possibly that could be the reason why I've not got many subscribers, being so close at times to the unit with the iPad camera. It's the only means I have to record. But I was fed up with just seeing other videos of just the same shot of a portable playing a record from a distance, always the same over and over again. So I decided I'd be different and do close up shots. It's the music after all that people want so why should they mind if it's a close up !!!!
But yes possibly the hiss might be something a viewer might not like. 😬
I know these machines are highly collectable and sought after by collectors in the UK, there must be somebody offering to service them. I know at least six here in the US who operate small businesses repairing Gramophones, or phonographs as they are known here. This is not a cheap service, 150-450 US dollars over here for a full service and cleaning, parts and mechanical repairs extra. Ask the internet, somebody has to be doing this, even if they do it like I do and work from a tiny shed . Set the speed with the stroboscope disk, if the speed control isn't pointing to 78 when you are done then that's OK, irritating, but what matters is the turntable is at the correct speed.
What is the title of the Ambrose record, and how many colors did the machine come in ? I have a red one and it sounds more like a small radio than a phonograph.You can hear bass notes.
Ambrose & His Orchestra - Caravan. Pink, blue, green, brown, tan, grey, red, black, probably something I am forgetting. It should have better sound than a small radio, possibly the reproducer needs attention. Bent or damaged needlebar, corrosion holes in the aluminum diaphragm, moth eaten felt gaskets. The sound should boom out of a 102 depending on the needle used. Early 5a reproducers are known for cracks and swelling, so are the 5b's but to a lesser extent. The earliest models have the #16, these are not rebuildable, they work, or they don't. If you are in the USA Walt Sommers Gettysburg Antique Phonographs should be able to set it right. He does Victrola orthophonics, and the HMV models have similarities. Expect the cost to be around $50, more if parts are needed. If it's past recovery due to metal issues he can likely supply a Victor Orthophonic reproducer that will work, and fit the tone arm. The motor likely needs service, if you don't do this yourself you can send it to various places that do this work, but they change around $150-$300 on average. The red color 102 is a popular choice, they are sought after, and expensive when found in good condition. Worth putting a few bucks into it to have it performing it's best. It's amazing how nice these machines sound when properly serviced.
Is it available on the market? Cost?
This one sold years ago, it's new owner reports that it is still playing well. You can find these on UK eBay, but they are expensive, and most will need a full service before they will play well, or at all.
What a great looking HMV 102. As macnerd93 states, these look really well in blue. Congratulations on restoring the motor. But I can't agree with MrQuintonia and others that this model "is generally thought to be the best portable gramophone player ever built". For one thing the soundbox is far from satisfactory (even HMV wasn't satisfied with it), adding extraneous background noises to the sound; the top and bottom of the case is usually compressed cardboard; and the bass response is poor compared with the previous model 101. Having heard all sorts of gramophones (phonographs in the USA) for 50 years as a collector, the very best portable without a doubt is the Decca 120 (which has a normal motor board) or 130 (which has a polished mickel-plated metal affair). Both have the tone-arm in the centre at the back, with a large Paillard soundbox that was also used on their cabinet models, and a bifurcated folded horn that divides either side of the motor to emerge the full width at the back of the cabinet. The bass response is phenomenal for a portable, with the natural sound putting even cabinet machines to shame.
Decca portables are even harder to find here than HMV's, I know of the 120-130 but so far they have eluded me, I only have one Decca, the Model 10 I have in another video. The Paillard reproducers on the other hand I do know. The Swiss had no pesky agreements keeping them out of the US market, after Victor gave up producing premium portables in 1932 the Swiss stepped right in selling portable machines under their own name, the Thorens name and unbranded machines using Swiss parts. My favorite would be the variety of machines that used the chrome plated steel motorboard, impressive to look at so long as you don't do it in bright sunshine. Paillard reproducers are top shelf, I have a variety of them and they are my go to reproducer when I have a machine lacking one. Many were sold as replacement reproducers well into the 1940's so it's possible to find them new in the box sometimes. HMV used pressboard top and bottom panels, but as the machine was rexine covered this didn't take away much. It made the case lighter, and the material seems to have held up even on some of my most deteriorated parts machines. I will have to bring out one of the big chrome Paillards soon, these were sold by various department stores, upscale ones, the cases can be somewhat heavy with multiple record storage areas and a double spring motor. I have never had an issue with the No5b on the 102, but then the records I play tend to be acoustic era recordings with limited frequency and bass.
I found a black Decca '50' on UK eBay for ~95USD. It has a rebranded Decca version of the Meltrope 3 reproducer which I've heard are some of the best for playing electrical recordings. Looking into buying the machine and I'm going to be very excited if my bid wins the auction.
I just bought the same colour model to go with my black one... What does the letter codes stand for? Great video... Always a top watch...
The letters indicate that changes were made to the machines design. Major changes like going from a steel motorboard to a wooden one.
Rockisland1903, you mentioned in an earlier video about about record composition changing after 1935 and the increased record wear factor using these players. I've given some thought to purchasing a HMV 102 BUT knowing the harm i'm doing to my collection inspite the fabulous sound ,I'm having second thoughts. Why would HMV continue to produce this unit with incompatible records after 1935 ?
Because in the 1950's records were cheap, available , and these machines were intended for occasional use. The 102 is a portable machine that was marketed to travelers and picnickers, it was never intended to take the place of a big home machine. Today the HMV-102 is a highly collectable piece, most who own them are collecting the machine itself and playing records on it would be a secondary concern and something done only occasionally. For more extensive record playing you should acquire a modern turntable and save the wear on both records and an expensive collectable antique. The 5a or 5b reproducer's are made from lightweight weight materials, unfortunately this is potmetal and the 5a in particular is known to swell and crack with age as zinc metal is known to do. The mix was a good one so many times the reproducer is in good condition, or good enough to still be used. This lightweight reproducer is much easier on your later records that the heavy exhibition, or No2 Victrola types are with their heavy brass construction. The tonearm is lightweight as well. Record wear can happen over time with the 102 as with any of the post WW2 acoustic machine of this type, however occasional playing should not be a problem. Use of a smaller low tone or soft tone needle can also help alleviate any wear issues. The 102 is a great machine, however keep in mind that after 50-80 years these machines will need service as did the 1935 model in the video. This means full disassembly, cleaning of all the motor parts, and repacking the spring. Sometimes if the spring is weak or broken then you have to replace it with a new one. Even without service 102's in as found condition with a clean case and no obvious damage can run $250-$650 depending on model , color, record tray, and so on, fully serviced and in excellent condition you could be looking at $600 or more. Colored machines always bring more money, especially the red ones, basic black is your most commonly encountered machine, and your best bet for a good value, anything made after 1940 will not use a record tray, often they are missing anyway. The 102 is an excellent machine, I highly recommend it.
Thank you for your speedy reply and your valued thoughts on this player.
Actually, I once weighted my old fashioned and my "late" reproducers, and I happens that mica soundboxes like the exhibition weight less (150 grams approx) than the aluminium diaphragmed ones like the n°5 series (about 250 grams). I think it is because early acoustic grooves didn't have very loud/detailed modulations compared to electric grooves, so an acoustic box didn't need as much weight as a alu one to force the needle to be moved accurately by the modulations of the groove.
Where can I get one?
Thank you
I find them on eBay. HMV did not export gramophones to the USA, this was by handshake agreement with Victor company founder Eldridge Johnson who owned a large chunk of Gramophone Company stock. Victor did not sell in HMV's markets either, so the only way HMV's got into the USA was with tourists returning home from the UK, or Europe, some probably came in from Canada. This makes it hard to find HMV's here, but UK eBay has many of them, and some sellers will export them, but do not expect low prices.
Nice i want this
Spend some time on UK eBay and one will turn up. You will have to learn how to service it as most will be attic finds that haven't been used in 60+ years.
Hi what do you use to clean the blue cover on it?
Damp ( never wet) cloth with some mild dish soap like Dawn. If there is a mold issue then set it in the sun for a few days rotating it from time to time.
I've just purchased one of these in teak, could you please tell me the name of the song used here
Ambrose & His Orchestra - Caravan. Teak, colonial model, very nice, I have the 100 in oak, the 112 in teak, and the 114 with a brown rexine cover. Haven't seen any teak 102's here yet.
@@Rockisland1903 thanks
From memory gramophones with teak was intended for the colonial market
Yes, The Gramophone Company's Calcutta India factory turned out a variety of teak models. Some unique to that market.
I know emg colonel has one I don't have a 102 I've got a 101 and a few other gramophones I'm waiting on a decca portable from England it's expected to arrive late November mid December
I need an epic gramaphone
Price.I am interested to buy.
This machine found a new owner years ago.
what song is this?
Świetna płyta. Co to za orkiestra? PS mam prosty sposób aby nie bylo słychać szumu plyty.
Whats the name of the song ?
What is Price of the gramophone
This Gramophone was sold several years ago.
22,,ਚਮਕੀਲਾ,,ਲਾ,,ਦੇ,,ਮਸੀਨ,,ਤੇ,,HMV,,
Hi just sent you a email! 😊
Mark,I'm selling off. Some of my 78rpm Record and I was Wondering if you would be interested in buying them off Me
I don't know who mark is, but I am not in the market for more 78's right now. I am trying to find homes for hundreds of them myself right now.
^
Whats the name of the song??
oasis - ambrose and his orchestra
@@RockIsland1913 ahhh thank you❤❤❤