Storywise it might be possible that Chekov was aboard the Enterprise during Space Seed and met Khan. Maybe he was just not a bridge officer and wasn’t present at the events depicted on screen.
Yeah, people often cite this as an error, but we were never given an exact date for Chekov's arrival on the Enterprise. It's not actually an error at all. Chekov just wasn't in the episode. There are episodes where Uhura isn't serving as communications officer when she has already been established, so it's just possible that Chekov wasn't on duty, but perhaps was serving as security by Khan's quarters or something. I never had an issue with it.
In the Original Series the Stardate never followed an order as it did on TNG on... However Chekov's first appearance in the Cat's paw the Stardate was 3018.2 the star date in Space seeds is 3141.9 so Chekov was aboard the Enterprise if you look at the dates in order
BOBW Shelby: "I thought they weren't interested in human life forms, only our technology." Picard: "Their priorities seem to have changed." - so no error there since they addressed it.
@@candidocandelaria7401 how is it an error if they address the change? That's like saying the Enterprise in THE MOTION PICTURE is an error since it looks so different from TOS.
The "I never forget a face" line isn't an issue imo. We sometimes make the mistake of thinking "if it didn't happen on camera it never happened." Its entirely possible that Chekov was on the Enterprise but just not part of the bridge crew. And doing so would not create any contradictions that I know of, e.g. this theory would be shot if in Chekov's first episode he was told "welcome to the Enterprise" or something along those lines
Your point about the Eugenics Wars is a good one; If the "bright future" wants to reference the "dark past", they shouldn't forget the cataclysmic event that came in-between.
I think the problem is, whenever they sends the crew back into the past, they want us as the viewers to feel like the crew is coming into our time. Since we are not experiencing the eugenic wars or world war 3 ourselves, it's hard to say it has happened by the early 21st century. Really, they need to just have a date now when it's happened. Either that or they have to stop doing time travel back to the early 21st century.
In Star Trek: Picard, Picard mentions that records for the era are messy, it could be the eugenics wars were misdated and haven't happened yet. Maybe that's what causes WW3?
I always interpreted the 'they have no interest in your crew" in the way that they need the ship to figure out where you are coming from. 1000 thousand drones are worth less than knowing where the home planet is.
Q's statement if looked at as a situational statement then is very accurate. At the time the Bord that boarded the ship were more interested in analyzing the ship and its information, and ignored the crew entirely at first.
"The Best of Both Worlds" does imply that biological assimilation is a new strategy that the Borg have decided on because of the resistance they've encountered among the Alpha Quadrant races, and the purpose of Locutus was in part to show how cool being assimilated is and reduce resistance. Though they obviously threw that idea in the bin shortly thereafter because it's not too long before they encounter assimilated persons who were assimilated long before the Borg turned Picard into Locutus.
For the gaseous anomaly equipment, I never even considered if it was a mistake. I just always thought it was supposed to be one of Starfleet's scientific priorities to investigate in that era, so most ships had the equipment on board.
Yeah, I figured it was just another "oh hey here's the solution to our problem popping out of thin air" like Trek had done hundreds of times before on TV,, or a mission that they were going to start but never did, etc.
Agreed. Excelsior was only responsible for cataloguing them in the Beta Quadrant, someone has to be doing the same in the Alpha Quadrant. Why not the Enterprise?
The Enterprise-C "kit bash" is awesome looking. Wouldn't mind a series (that is driven by good writing) based on the Enterprise-C culminating in the anomaly.
Fact: The Ambassador class ship only appeared in 5 (6 if you want to be technical) episodes in all of Star Trek to date. The actual first "appearance" was in Conspiracy, long before Yesterday's Enterprise. However, it was just some debris from a destroyed ship that was supposed to be an Ambassador class, so that probably doesn't count.
@@Darxide23 yeah debris is easy to just through together (at least back then), cause it was assumed people wouldn't really be able to make out much if anything anyway. To be honest i like the kit bash better then the original deign.
I agree that a series based upon the Enterprise C would be awesome. In fact, I always thought that a movie version of "Yesterday's Enterprise" would have been way better than any of the TNG movies that were made. Only issue is that the episode is now over 30 years old, and Trisha O'Neil and Christopher McDonald are way too old to pass for their younger selves, and filming it with new actors just wouldn't cut it, IMHO.
In "All Good Things," the anomaly was larger in the past and smaller in "the future." Once the three Enterprises "caused" the anomaly, it would have started growing towards the past and not be visible afterwards. That always drove me crazy! I'm glad to finally vent about it. Congrats on 200K!
Dude you KEEP missing the fact Spot was a male cat only to give birth in the last season haha. As for the Enterprise C, the one we got in Yesterday's Enterprise was FAR superior to that model...I think the C is every BIT as pretty as the D. Also I need to point out Borg changing priorities was not a mistake, nor was it a continuity error, it was addressed on the bridge. Shelby - "I thought the Borg weren't interested in Human life, only our technology" Picard - "their priorities seem to have changed". It was a change the writers knowingly made and used dialog to tie it into the story. That's an intentional decision, not a mistake.
Just because you acknowledge an error, it doesn't mean you fixed it. Their goal had always been assimilation, even before that episode. In fact, Seven was assimilated before that event.
I couldn't disagree more, the Enterprise C concept art is wonderful. With the on-screen kitbash, the way the saucer awkwardly blocks the bussard collectors just never appealed to me.
It's worth noting that the Enterprise C as seen in the episode isn't a kitbash. It's still a completely new design, but it was significantly simplified from Probert's original design in order to ease construction.
Honestly I love what we got in the end though, It is the perfect mod point between the Connie and the Galaxy. With just a hint of Excelsior. It fits perfectly both in technology and asthetics.
@@Darxide23 show me a source that shows how they used pre-existing pieces to make the filming model. The fact that it was intended to bridge the gap between the Excelsior and Galaxy doesn’t make it a kitbash.
I can headcanon that Scotty, hearing that he's been rescued by the Enterprise, figured that Kirk had just hitch-kicked death in the face again and come to save him. Death didn't tend to stick to James T. Kirk.
I really didn't care if the writers made mistakes in the episode of STNG that brought a frozen Scotty back, I really love that episode. James Doohan brought so much cheeky humor to that role (even though he wasn't really Scottish). I was lucky enough to meet him at a Star Trek convention in Dallas in the early-mid 1980s, before those became huge events. Almost no one wore costumes in the audience, but I made three shirts for my brother and friends similar to those worn by Spock, Scotty, and Kirk, and I made myself an Uhura dress since she was my childhood idol. Mr. Doohan noticed us and our attire during the Q&A, my brother and friends pointed at me and told him I made the costumes, and he winked at me and said, "Aye, and you're a fine lass" in his famous Scotty voice... I pretty much floated off the ground and sailed off into the stratosphere for being noticed by him. He gave a talk to the audience that was interesting and funny, but he spoke in his "real" voice instead of sounding like Scotty. As we were walking to the car, my brother told me that the only time he heard James Doohan speak in his "Scotty" voice during his presentation was when he made the "fine lass" remark. Probably not, but I don't care, he sure made me happy that day! The year before that, George Takei was the guest of honor at the ST convention. He was also very funny, but he sure didn't want to talk about Shatner. He was polite, but when anyone asked about their relationship after ST, he ignored their question and skipped to the next person. They quit asking. Years later I read that they were not on friendly terms.
@@toumbryth7862 he seemed to remember everything else. How many ships he’d served on, the rough time they had ferrying the Dohlman of Elas. Seems just too unlikely that he wouldn’t remember a legend in Starfleet like Kirk had died saving the Enterprise B.
I recall reading the series The Eugenics Wars by Greg Cox where this was stated. The wars were seen publicly as local hot spots such as unrest in Central America, Middle East, etc. I'm not sure if it counts as cannon though.
@@stevk5181 That's actually a pretty solid retcon to explain what would otherwise be a continuity error. IIRC, it was explained that the Eugenics Wars, on the surface, appeared to be little more than "brushfire wars", but they were being directed behind the scenes by the genetically engineered supermen like Khan, etc., and that whole epoch was the precursor to WWIII in Star Trek history. Like you, I don't know if that's official ST canon, but it would work, maybe with a little tweaking around the edges.
They could also rewrite history books and change dates as told in novel 1984. The Romans restarted calendar before that in history if not our calendar would be long past year 2022.
@@rlm6213 I do recall hearing something as well. And I mean that's not entirely unreasonable. We hear about things in Europe like Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine, etc. "Small" regional conflicts that could eventually drag in global participation.
Adam Soong’s storyline in Picard might explain the missing Khan in the room… the “Shenzhen Convention” mentioned when he lost his license might have been drafted after the Eugenics War.
The one thing that is nice with the K'tinga class being in Enterprise is that it can be corrected right now. If TOS was able to get a full special effects make over, it wouldn't take much to fix the ship model issue in that Enterprise episode (They simply referred it to a Klingon Battlecruiser I think, please correct me, if I'm wrong). Same can be said with other special effects issues in other series as well.
The three timelines and three beams always bugged me too. But the one that really got me was the episode where La Forge and ensign Ro were "phased" by Romulan technology. Able to pass through solid objects such as doors and even one scene where the phased Romulan gets knocked through the bulkhead and into space. If this were all true then how come they do not fall through the deck (the floor) of the ship? What is holding them up?
I’ve given it some thought and perhaps it can be explained as the artificial gravity holding them in place and not actual matter preventing them from falling downward.
I think this is just a "mass" question really. When phased, that means that the matter still exists, but the matter has "lost it's ability to react with matter out of phase", but the mass has gone nowhere, and gravity still acts on mass. So the ship's artificial gravity probably pushes inwards (inertial dampeners, etc) , but parts of the ship that aren't generating gravity (eg walls, exterior hull) would be phased through given some inertial force. That said, this is a common physics problem in fictional works, because any living being that could phase or teleport through a solid surface... how in the hell do they know they're not going to phase back stuck in a wall. Light would be out of phase , so theoretically, they shouldn't be able to see any of the surrounding matter that is out of phase. Then there is also oxygen (air) and water. The reason this remains a science-fiction/magic type of element is because it would be less interesting if you instantly die/spontaneously-decompress when not in phase.
@@superhayes256 It's not the strongest explanation ever, but I agree with you. The gravity netting in the floor was always the best explanation I could think of for why no one fell through the floor.
I always had a problem with ST2 when they get to Ceti Alpha 6 they didn't know it was Ceti Alpha 5??? They can chart the galaxy but yet have a problem figuring out how many planets are in the Ceti Alpha system???
They didn't realize at first because they arrived at the outermost planet, but yeah you'd think they'd've charted the system n checked the damn maps better. Though Kahn did say Ceti Alpha V's orbit shifted, so maybe it took VI's place?
@@tetravega567 yes, that's exactly what happened... Ceti Alpha VI exploded, and Ceti Alpha V's orbit shifted to be where VI previously was. This turned it into a barren wasteland, as VI had been. While it still seems like a silly mistake, surely V didn't _exactly_ match VI's orbit and other details, but perhaps it was close enough.
@@davej3781 I guess they didn't figure out "6" was really 5 because that's impossible. There is no way Mars could explode, and have Earth just kind of move into Mars's orbit. That was some real plot juggling.
Yeah, right. Personnel records are available to any rando with a viewing station. You gotta love civilians. And that goes for the 11 randos that gave that nonsense a thumbs up. You may be the next generation of Star Trek writers, you'd fit right in.
Up to and including "Space Seed", Checkov was serving below the bridge or on another watch, maybe with Lt. Palmer- the blonde communications officer, or maybe M'Ress,maybe with O'Riley on Comm. Just because we didn't see him dont mean he wasn't there, just that the scene began after his departure or ended before his arrival.
Agreed, just because he wasn't in any scenes with Khan doesn't mean he wasn't on the Enterprise in some capacity that would allow Khan to recognize him. Not a continuity error IMO.
People noticed that right away at the time, but forgave it for just that reason. Characters came and went, and they didn't bother to welcome Chekov when he appeared, as if he were new.
I can see your point, but the way Khan said that he never forgot a face implied that he personally knew Chekov. Offscreen explanations rarely cover continuity errors and it seems both actor and director realized this.
I prefer the Enterprise C we got on screen - the Ambassador Class is my favourite design that isn't a series lead (and only just comes 2nd overall to the Constitution)
I don't care what anybody says. The Ambassador class Enterprise C is beautiful. AND, ANY differences from ships hanging on walls or other artist renditions can easily be chalked up to the refit process. LOL
I never considered the future beam from the Pasteur to be an error. Since Picard was on all three ships, at the same space (not at the same time, obviously) it’s not at all hard to think that he would have set the Pasteur’s deflector to identical settings as the two Enterprises that were there. And since he didn’t enter the anomaly until the third Enterprise got there anyway, it really didn’t make a difference.
Also, he was quite old and at that age you might still remember that usually you're saved by Kirk and the Enterprise and you're used to it, but for now you might forget that Kirk was lost in space the last time you saw him.
My theories: Enterprise was scheduled to relieve Excelsior and was equiped to take over the assignment, until Spock pulled Kirk and co into meeting with Gordon. Q lied about the Borg. Bashir's "two decades" were cumulative not consecutive. IE there had been 20 years total where Earth and the Klingons weren't growling at one another.
@@quietinsound8087 Technically maybe... but still a deceiver. You can say things that are technically true, but still make people believe something that is false. Deception doesn't require lies, its the way of politics. Q could have been honest... when first encountered, they cared about the tech and computers and data, and didn't yet have interest in adding more drones.
Other than the huge plot mistake not noted in this video. For future Picard, he caused the anomaly, which gets bigger in the past. But the left and came back and saw that he was "right" and that they had caused the anomaly. But they wouldn't have seen it because it started when they fired, the moved into the past, not the future.
Re: Khan knowing Chekov in ST:II TWOK-- A long time ago, I saw an interview with RM in which the interviewer asked him about it and it seems that Khan ran into Chekov when Chekov beat him to the bathroom on the Enterprise. I loved the way RM told the story and laugh about it to this day.
It's a great explanation, because people forget we don't see *everything* that happens in these missions. So what if Chekov wasn't seen in the episode? Maybe he was a lower-ranking crewman, or maybe it just wasn't his shift. :)
@@STNeish I was always under the impression that Kirk was listed as "Missing In Action" especially since they knew that the refugee's they were trying to save had somehow been INSIDE the anomaly and successfully extracted from it, meaning Kirk could be alive trapped inside it, hence Scotty thought Kirk might have been alive and had been saved.
@@darrenrichardson6146 Well... I don't think they expected that anyone would still be inside there, considering they all came out... but Kirk didn't, so perhaps they thought HE might still be in there.
The Ferengi in TNG were bluffing. They were hiding their true character by the same technique that tiny dogs use: Make yourself look as savage as possible.
Would fit in with their culture. Especially when dealing with another culture (at the time) they did not know and thus do not trust. Also when you consider the white background used to hide the appearance of the rest of their bridge during comms. Also, in addition, not the best examples of the species either.
TWOK Chekov thing was not a mistake. Chekov was on sabbatical at that time. He was touring with his band, the Monkees. It was the 2267 Vulcan tour. The Monkees were very big on Vulcan. It's why Spock was always very avuncular with Chekov.
No one ever says that the Eugenics Wars were global. It's possible that the US (the destination for nearly all Trek Time Travel™) was not involved in them, which would make references to them in US culture less common.
yeah, I seem to recall it largely being referred to as a war between European and Asian powers, even though they never really get into specifics all that much. Khan's name is an obvious reference to Mongolia after all, while the ideology seems rooted in the then-recent Nazi Germany.
I also agree that Khan could've run into Chekhov at any point onboard the original series episode. First Contact is set after the aftermath of the Eugenics War for sure, but they do avoid any direct reference to it.
I believe the story Shatner had it changed in STVI, he gets alot of stick does Shatner but he was right here. It was much better for the original crew like Uhuru to be involved in saving the day than the Excellsior. Everyone attributes these moves as ego ones but Kirk isn't involved in that discussion its the rest of the crew. People also forget Walter Koenig's recollection of Shatner trying to get Chekov a bigger role in ST:TMP.
I have often felt like the writers hate the eugenic wars because it prevents them from portraying anything after the 90s effectively without going against Star Trek lore.
seriously. it's not hard to understand. When Star Trek predicted them, they were the future, but now they're a tacky alternate past which makes the star trek timeline more convoluted every time they reference it. The best way to deal with it IMO is move it 50 more years into the future, or just ignore it entirely...
DS9s Past Tense is one of the one of my favorite episodes. Right up there with City at the Edge of Forever. You totally missed the changes in Klingon appearance though, but I guess we don't talk about it.
You guys do wonderful work. As we are all sci-fi fans in general, I think we can all agree that when necessary, we will collectively hold our noses when disparities, small or large, are foisted into a story for good or ill.
The original series also made it clear that Earth had avoided nuclear war then the first episode if the next generation said there was a nuclear. That's always been annoying to me that Trek writers can't be bothered to watch previous shows to see what's established.
And people these days get upset when new shows step on "established" canon. Like it's never happened before. It's a big thing with Star Trek. Continuity and canon get stepped on pretty frequently.
I never really worried about that as I understood the nature of what I was watching - a Television series who's creators had no idea that it would be 'resurrected' 20 years later. I mean, to have a new series appear 20 years later being limited to what was established in the original 1966 TV show? Especially given so much that changed in real life during that time span. As long as it makes sense today, not really worried what was said 20 years earlier.
@@mustang6599 Right! I love the episode of STDS9 that used original footage of the "Trouble With Tribbles" from the original. They came up with an explanation for why Klingons look so different than they did in the earlier series, something about a virus epidemic that changed the way they looked. Considering how many hours created of ST, and how many different writers there have been, I think they do pretty well at keeping continuity in mind. I don't even mind the episodes that were "clunkers" and downright silly. A "bad" episode of Star Trek is still 100 times better than a "good" so-called "reality" show like "The Bachelor".
I've always chalked up the Scotty error as more him responding to the name Enterprise. So for a moment, he still believed Kirk and crew heard he was missing and once again rode in on the Enterpirse for the rescue.
How about Kirk's line in The Undiscovered Country when the Klingon battle cruiser appeared and he said," I've never been this close" when in fact he was aboard a Klingon vessel in the previous movie! That always bothered me.
Either that or he meant that he'd never been that close to a Klingon ship in an instance where a) they weren't under red alert or b) they weren't otherwise anticipating being shot at.
Relics: The Nexus was not the first time Kirk was declared dead and returned and Scotty may have learned from Guinan that Kirk could leave it any time he wants.
I don't think I'd call the Enterprise-C a "dumb mistake", they just decided not to go with Andrew Probert's design (for whatever reason, but the revised version was simpler & cheaper to make even though it's not a kitbash) And to be fair, the Enterprise-B as seen in 'Generations' doesn't look like a standard Excelsior-class ship either
Just here to point out that Chekov appears in the S2 episode "Catspaw" on Stardate 3018.2, whilst the Khan S1 episode "Space Seed" took place on Stardate 3141.9. So whilst Chekov wasn't there in episode order, he was a;ready on the Enterprise in Stardate order. And, BTW, Nick Meyer wasn't just a director who spotted the 'mistake' - he wrote the script himself.
stardates in the original series were literally just four random numbers and a decimal point, consistent within a single script, but not between multiple.
It could be argued that the Borg were initially only interested in technology and viewed humans themselves as too primitive, until they managed to put up a fight and then suddenly vanished when Q sent them back home. I also wonder if this continuity error was meant to be addressed by the _Enterprise_ episode "Regeneration"...as in the signal sent in that episode finally reached the Borg _after_ their encounter in J25.
Seriously, the fact time travel both exists in Star Trek and that the Borg have been involved in multiple time travel plots can be used to hand wave most inconsistencies related to them as simply stories happening in variant time lines.
The thing that got me about the "gaseous anomalies" thing, was that no one had thought of using a "heat seeker" to shoot a cloaked ship before (aside from the fact that a doctor and a science officer could modify a torpedo so fast)
The distinction with Chang's Bird of Prey is it could fire while cloaked. I feel like they left out this rationale for some reason, maybe even cutting room floor. One would think the energy output required to make that possible would be greater than normal.
It actually makes perfect sense for the Borg to disregard assimilating crewmembers on a first encounter. The Borg don't really care when Starfleet personnel come aboard their own ships, let alone being on a ship where they belong. They were interested in the tech, and only became interested in Humanity after the Enterprise escaped them.
There's good chance they already encountered humans before, but technology they found was insufficient to pique their interest. Purpose of The Collective is to uplift technologically advanced, but (from their point of view) socially primitive species, to become perfect society, which Borg believe The Collective is. Likely the Enterprise was far more advanced than what they found so far, proving Species 5618 (Borg designation for Humans) more technologically advanced than innitially estimated, and "mature" enough for assmiliation to The Collective.
as to #9: What if Chekov was on the Enterprise, but was not bridge crew yet? he literally appears as bridge crew in the very next episode....that was alway my logic growing up with both
Technically there were episodes where Sulu, Uhura, or Scotty are missing due to availability or script or cost. Doesn't mean in-universe they weren't on the ship. Just the part we saw... they were not around.
as far as #2, i remember when we frist saw the borg they had a nursery on their ship with baby borg, then later they said they didn't have young by birth or however they were created, the only grew their numbers by assimilation
Maybe they assimilated someone who was pregnant. Borg "maturation chambers" are mentioned a few times in Voyager, it's where they store assimilated children.
Yeah, but every other time someone on the crew “beat death”, the body was still around and they came back pretty quick. Kirk had been blown out into the vacuum of space when a huge chunk of the hull was blasted off the Enterprise B. Scotty retired months or maybe years later. It’s unbelievable that anyone, even Scotty, would still hold unto the unrealistic hope Kirk had cheated that kind of death.
I don't consider the "gas sniffing" in ST6 to be an error or mistake. There's no reason to think the Enterprise wouldn't also be carrying the equipment needed to survey gaseous anomalies.
Yeah well, for ships on "routine" duty that might be true, but the Enterprise and her crew were specifically selected for the escort mission and were supposed to be scrapped afterwards. So that kind of equipment would likely have been removed and shifted to other ships with a longer life-cycle ahead...
About the Borg error. both can be true. In QWho, the Borg weren't interested in the crew, just the technology. In BPBW, assimilation became the priority when the Borg decided the Federation has technology that would serve them.
Exactly, the Borg assimilate species with technology that interests them... though they will also do so if they need more drones in a sector or the resources on a planet. They go species by species because they think mechanically.
You know, you mentioned Past Tense toward the end, there. It's getting dangerously close to the year that two-parter takes place, and present-day politics in the United States make it fairly possible something similar could happen in our reality.
I'm totally okay with "Scotty knew Kirk had died, but he knew Kirk (and the Nexus) so well that it wouldn't have surprised him if Kirk himself had come back to save him from the pattern buffer." I don't see a continuity error... just an overly-optimistic scottsman.
In ST 3, which takes place in the year 2285, Admiral Morrow stated that the Enterprise that was about to decommissioned was 20 years old. However, in canon the Enterprise was commissioned in 2245, which makes the ship 40 years old.
I've seen a theory that seeing the entrprise quick made the Borg change their aims to assimilate beings also as they seemed to have knowledge they could use
Yes, because the way the Borg work, they can't really 'develop' new technologies on their own, they can only assimilate it and modify it to suit their needs. They are NOT 'inventors'! That only comes from indviduality!
@@DMSProduktions yes and seeing how far a federation ship had come not knowing Q sent them. They started to assimilate people to get knowledge. Meeting them changed them that's the theory so not like a mistake
Enterprise 1701 was destroyed in "Star Trek III: Search for Spock" and by the tim e"Undiscovered Country" came around that was a new Enterprise (1701-A). So yeah, Scotty did indeed serve on two Enterprises.
With all the ethnic cleansing, and genocide campaigns around the world I'm pretty sure the Eugenics Wars actually happened, and are still going on. Unfortunately. Plus the genetics research, and the clone sheep Dolly.
First time seeing Kahn - First Series, Space Seed. - First time seeing Pavel Chekov - Second series, Cat's Paw. Space Seed - Stardate 3141.9 - Cat's Paw - Stardate 3018.2 Kahn knew or would have seen Chekov even though we never saw the two on screen in Space Seed. It would be interesting to see these old episodes in Stardate order.
Why couldn't both ships be carrying equipment to catalogue gaseous anomalies? They're kinda all over the place. Send a a ship here, send another ship there...
Still, it would have been nice for Sulu to show up and save the day.... but as it currently stands, all they did was sit there and draw fire. Almost pointless.
The Klingon ship design was not introduced in "Errand of Mercy." At the time of The Original Series' production, the budget did not allow for a Klingon model until the third season--and in fact, in air order, the first view of the Klingon ships was in "The Enterprise Incident," where it was used by Romulans! In the remastered episodes with new CGI effects, Klingon vessels were added to episodes that did not originally feature them (another one being "The Trouble With Tribbles"), so in that sense, the ships' first appearance is in "Errand of Mercy"--but it wasn't originally that way.
Encounter at Farpoint - Q's "rapid progress" seems to insinuate that humanity suffered another collapse post-First Contact. This isn't mentioned again. Also, the continuity issue with All Good Things' inverse tachyon beams could simply be explained as a throwaway remark by Data - he set up all three, so they should've been very similar. The Enterprise would've undergone numerous refits in 25 years including to the deflector and it would be somewhat odd for each deflector to have its own signature, so why should the Pasteur's be any different?
Was that definitely post First contact though? It said about colonising worlds, but that could have just been the moon, mars and other planets in the solar system
i think the eugenics wars were delayed by the crash of the future vessel in that voyager episode, this is often cited as a splitting of the timeline from one where the computer revolution didnt happen, in which the eugenics wars did, and one where it did and why the tech on the original series is so antiquated.
Yeah, Khan had "superior intellect". In Space Seed I can imagine him speed-reading the Enterprise's personnel files or crew roster to gather as much Intel as possible.
In my head, I imagined that the Eugenics Wars had been initiated by Temporal Cold War enemy agents, and were "later" wiped from history when the proper timeline was restored by guys like Captain Braxton. This would be the reason why Janeway's crew didn't even know about them.
Great video, Sean! How about looking at the huge error (in my opinion) in the Star Trek movie (Kelvin timeline) when a simple Romulan mining ship went after Spock's one-man ship, got caught in a black hole and came through a 150 years in the past suddenly armed to the teeth and able to easily defeat the USS Kelvin...way beyond the simple mining ship's abilities, that's for sure.
@@chbu7081: true, but that's never covered in the primary canon of the movie, instead reading a secondary source is required to get that detail, which is still bad writing on the part of the movie. That said, the whole Borg aspect wasn't really needed in the first place. Technology in Star Trek has always been shown to advance rapidly. Whenever time travel has pitted two ships from different eras against each other the more advanced ship from the future always completely out classes the one from the past. So a mining ship from the 2380s obliterating a science vessel from 2230s is pretty much entirely in keeping with precedent.
The ‘All good things’ anomaly ALWAYS bugged me because it was supposed to be running backwards in time. So the Pasteur would have found the anomaly and when scanned closed it, not created it.
That always bugged me, too. Especially because Picard figuring out that it grows backwards from the point where he created it was supposed to be the thing that proves humanity's potential. But then he insists they go back and see it, which shouldn't have worked in the future timeline! Q should have concluded humanity was too dumb to be saved after all. 😁
To be fair, for the Voyager episodes that took place in 1996, they were in an altered timeline because of Captain Braxton's failed attack on the Voyager had sent both ships into the past. His ship had drooped onto Earth in the 70's, allowing a hippie to get a hold of it and start up his own business to reverse engineer the ship. This altered the future. When the Time ship was destroyed by Voyager and another Braxton came along to set Voyager back in its proper place in time, the altered timeline was fixed. Thus the Eugenics wars were also placed back into their proper place in time. As for DS9's trip to the past to the Bell Riots, the exact year was 2024, not the 1990s. The Eugenics wars were over but their impact was still being felt as so many people were now poor and destitute and were put into Sanctuary districts.
I always assumed there was just a future lock and Valeris, being a Bridge officer, unlocked it with her hand print or something - still doesn't explain why they're in the Galley though
The "mistake" you mention with Ferengi ignores the Ferengi in question were military where Quark and many other encounters were civilian. The military could easily have different priorities and rules. I can quote you U.S. military rules of conduct that you would find alien and "UnAmerican".
In the TNG episode "Samaritan Snare," when Picard and Wesley are talking: Picard: "Several friends and I were on leave at Farspace Starbase Earhart. It was little more than a galactic outpost in those days." Wesley: "Was this before the Klingons joined the Federation?" Picard: "That's right." Ughhh lol
Later in star trek they just stopped giving the Eugenics war a concrete timeframe. Enterprise makes it sound like WWIII was the Eugenics war. Quite frankly the writers in the 60s just over estimated how far we'd advance by 1999
Even more likely, they had no idea that in 1999 (and for at least 23 years after) we'd still be watching Star Trek. Or that we'd care about it as much as we do.
One of the puzzling other things about The Wrath of Khan was that they mistook the planet at all. I would think that a basic scan would make you think "Hey! weren't there 7 planets in this system last time we came by? We're missing one."
Simply messing up/not paying attention to the scan results doesn't seem likely but there's some theories that maybe the data wasnt entered in correctly to begin with (for whatever reason) so technically the scan in Wrath *was* correct. Thats what I think likely happened but eh...
In "All Good Things..." the 3 beams coming from the Enterprise can still make sense. Since it is "anti-time" (or the flow of time is reversed, however you want to think of it) even though the future Enterprise initiated the beam later, it could and would still be present when view from the past with time running backwards.
I was thinking about that and well Q altered the timeline so there is no guarantee that Picard had went back and met her in the 19th century or had known her in the 24th
I think people spend too much time worrying about and trying to explain, things that are just victims of circumstance, budgets, ideas that just didn't work, or revamps of ideas that did work (such as the look of the Trill from TNG to DS9). It's all entertainment.
Thank You! I was personally attempting to see if those time lines did intersect. It may an interesting episode to line up all the visits from everyone in the early 21 Century in chronological order…
My List of 10 More Dumb Mistakes Star Trek Wants You To Forget: 10. Odo's marriage to Lwaxana Troi in DS9 that everyone just forgot about. 9. Spot starts out as a male cat in TNG but is changed to female later in the series so she can have kittens. 8. The windows of the Enterprise shattering like glass during the crash scene in Star Trek Generations, despite the fact they're transparent aluminum (thank you, Plinkett review). 7. The Klingon's change in appearance in TNG (if you're going to bring up the Borg's character change, this is fair game too). 6. Deanna and Lwaxana Troi having completely different accents in TNG. 5. That maximum warp speed limit of Warp 5 in TNG that everyone just immediately forgot about (or ignored...like the real speed limit). 4. How they handled Jadzia Dax's (DS9) and Tasha Yar's (TNG) deaths. 3. That one episode of Voyager. You all know the one I'm talking about. 2. J.J. Abrams lens flare. 1. Discovery.
Could have Q just lied when he said the Borg were only interested in technology? I mean, we know it’s a goof, but we could say Q was lying in “Q Who.” I need to get back into Trek. Thanks for jump starting my interest again. I need to get (is it?) Paramount+ anyway, so I’ll give Picard a try!
Storywise it might be possible that Chekov was aboard the Enterprise during Space Seed and met Khan. Maybe he was just not a bridge officer and wasn’t present at the events depicted on screen.
Good point, as a young officer the fiasco with Khan and his whole life as it pertains to space travelers would have been studied in the academy.
YES! Way to go Ricardo!
That’s how I’ve always tried to look at it to justify it! 😂
Yeah, people often cite this as an error, but we were never given an exact date for Chekov's arrival on the Enterprise. It's not actually an error at all. Chekov just wasn't in the episode. There are episodes where Uhura isn't serving as communications officer when she has already been established, so it's just possible that Chekov wasn't on duty, but perhaps was serving as security by Khan's quarters or something. I never had an issue with it.
In the Original Series the Stardate never followed an order as it did on TNG on... However Chekov's first appearance in the Cat's paw the Stardate was 3018.2 the star date in Space seeds is 3141.9 so Chekov was aboard the Enterprise if you look at the dates in order
BOBW Shelby: "I thought they weren't interested in human life forms, only our technology." Picard: "Their priorities seem to have changed." - so no error there since they addressed it.
It's still an error, considering assimilation was their main goal, from the start.
@@candidocandelaria7401 how is it an error if they address the change? That's like saying the Enterprise in THE MOTION PICTURE is an error since it looks so different from TOS.
@@candidocandelaria7401 No, it's not. With that short exchange, they literally sorted it completely - on screen and in canon. OP is 100% correct, IMO.
Q telling a lie? Quelle suprise!
Came here to post this 😔
The "I never forget a face" line isn't an issue imo. We sometimes make the mistake of thinking "if it didn't happen on camera it never happened." Its entirely possible that Chekov was on the Enterprise but just not part of the bridge crew. And doing so would not create any contradictions that I know of, e.g. this theory would be shot if in Chekov's first episode he was told "welcome to the Enterprise" or something along those lines
Your point about the Eugenics Wars is a good one; If the "bright future" wants to reference the "dark past", they shouldn't forget the cataclysmic event that came in-between.
Not happening here at Home - nothing to see syndrome...
I think the problem is, whenever they sends the crew back into the past, they want us as the viewers to feel like the crew is coming into our time. Since we are not experiencing the eugenic wars or world war 3 ourselves, it's hard to say it has happened by the early 21st century.
Really, they need to just have a date now when it's happened. Either that or they have to stop doing time travel back to the early 21st century.
Doesn't Q allude to it also in early TNG episodes?
@@Eowyn3Pride Q references the 21st Century World War III and the Post-Atomic Horrors, but not the Eugenics Wars.
In Star Trek: Picard, Picard mentions that records for the era are messy, it could be the eugenics wars were misdated and haven't happened yet. Maybe that's what causes WW3?
I always interpreted the 'they have no interest in your crew" in the way that they need the ship to figure out where you are coming from. 1000 thousand drones are worth less than knowing where the home planet is.
I was about to make the same comment. I never saw the first encounter with The Borg as incongruent for this reason.
Exactly, they didn't want to assimilate them, yet!
They would know where they are from, from the assimilated minds...
Q's statement if looked at as a situational statement then is very accurate. At the time the Bord that boarded the ship were more interested in analyzing the ship and its information, and ignored the crew entirely at first.
"The Best of Both Worlds" does imply that biological assimilation is a new strategy that the Borg have decided on because of the resistance they've encountered among the Alpha Quadrant races, and the purpose of Locutus was in part to show how cool being assimilated is and reduce resistance. Though they obviously threw that idea in the bin shortly thereafter because it's not too long before they encounter assimilated persons who were assimilated long before the Borg turned Picard into Locutus.
For the gaseous anomaly equipment, I never even considered if it was a mistake. I just always thought it was supposed to be one of Starfleet's scientific priorities to investigate in that era, so most ships had the equipment on board.
Yeah, I figured it was just another "oh hey here's the solution to our problem popping out of thin air" like Trek had done hundreds of times before on TV,, or a mission that they were going to start but never did, etc.
Agreed. Excelsior was only responsible for cataloguing them in the Beta Quadrant, someone has to be doing the same in the Alpha Quadrant. Why not the Enterprise?
The Enterprise-C "kit bash" is awesome looking. Wouldn't mind a series (that is driven by good writing) based on the Enterprise-C culminating in the anomaly.
The Kit Bash class rocks.
Fact: The Ambassador class ship only appeared in 5 (6 if you want to be technical) episodes in all of Star Trek to date. The actual first "appearance" was in Conspiracy, long before Yesterday's Enterprise. However, it was just some debris from a destroyed ship that was supposed to be an Ambassador class, so that probably doesn't count.
@@Darxide23 yeah debris is easy to just through together (at least back then), cause it was assumed people wouldn't really be able to make out much if anything anyway. To be honest i like the kit bash better then the original deign.
I agree that a series based upon the Enterprise C would be awesome. In fact, I always thought that a movie version of "Yesterday's Enterprise" would have been way better than any of the TNG movies that were made. Only issue is that the episode is now over 30 years old, and Trisha O'Neil and Christopher McDonald are way too old to pass for their younger selves, and filming it with new actors just wouldn't cut it, IMHO.
Best kitbash ever
Khan, "I never forget a face".
He has such a good memory, he even remembers people he's never met.
Maybe Augment DNA is part Time Lord and he remembers in reverse?
Things happen in-between the scenes we see. Chekov could have just passed him in the corridor.
In "All Good Things," the anomaly was larger in the past and smaller in "the future." Once the three Enterprises "caused" the anomaly, it would have started growing towards the past and not be visible afterwards. That always drove me crazy! I'm glad to finally vent about it. Congrats on 200K!
I was thinking the same thing...I went into much more detail above. Check it out. :)
The anomaly could "explode" in both temporal directions, getting larger in the past AND the future...?
Me too!!!
It was an anomalous anomaly in many ways.
Yes exactly this. I don't know why that gets under my skin so much but it is the one mistake that really bugs me 🙂
Dude you KEEP missing the fact Spot was a male cat only to give birth in the last season haha. As for the Enterprise C, the one we got in Yesterday's Enterprise was FAR superior to that model...I think the C is every BIT as pretty as the D. Also I need to point out Borg changing priorities was not a mistake, nor was it a continuity error, it was addressed on the bridge. Shelby - "I thought the Borg weren't interested in Human life, only our technology" Picard - "their priorities seem to have changed". It was a change the writers knowingly made and used dialog to tie it into the story. That's an intentional decision, not a mistake.
I think the C is WAY better looking than the D, the B and the E!
Spot was altered in a transporter experiment. "X" Chromosomes added in the "buffer"
Just because you acknowledge an error, it doesn't mean you fixed it. Their goal had always been assimilation, even before that episode. In fact, Seven was assimilated before that event.
I couldn't disagree more, the Enterprise C concept art is wonderful. With the on-screen kitbash, the way the saucer awkwardly blocks the bussard collectors just never appealed to me.
Spot identified as female
It's worth noting that the Enterprise C as seen in the episode isn't a kitbash. It's still a completely new design, but it was significantly simplified from Probert's original design in order to ease construction.
Yes. Not a kitbash in the least but a far cheaper model to make without all the smooth curvy bits.
@@superhayes256 to the point where the main shapes for the nacelles were turned on a lathe almost at the eleventh hour.
Honestly I love what we got in the end though, It is the perfect mod point between the Connie and the Galaxy. With just a hint of Excelsior. It fits perfectly both in technology and asthetics.
The design was a kitbash. The model that appeared on-screen was based on that kitbash. That's the point, I think.
@@Darxide23 show me a source that shows how they used pre-existing pieces to make the filming model. The fact that it was intended to bridge the gap between the Excelsior and Galaxy doesn’t make it a kitbash.
Congratulations on 200k subscribers! It's very well deserved - Everybody at TrekCulture deserves a gold-pressed latinum medal!
Also, it was supposed to be Janice Rand who reminds Sulu about the equipment for the photon torpedo to destroy Chang's ship.
I can headcanon that Scotty, hearing that he's been rescued by the Enterprise, figured that Kirk had just hitch-kicked death in the face again and come to save him. Death didn't tend to stick to James T. Kirk.
"Death didn't tend to stick to James 'Teflon' Kirk." 😁😉🖖
I really didn't care if the writers made mistakes in the episode of STNG that brought a frozen Scotty back, I really love that episode. James Doohan brought so much cheeky humor to that role (even though he wasn't really Scottish).
I was lucky enough to meet him at a Star Trek convention in Dallas in the early-mid 1980s, before those became huge events. Almost no one wore costumes in the audience, but I made three shirts for my brother and friends similar to those worn by Spock, Scotty, and Kirk, and I made myself an Uhura dress since she was my childhood idol.
Mr. Doohan noticed us and our attire during the Q&A, my brother and friends pointed at me and told him I made the costumes, and he winked at me and said, "Aye, and you're a fine lass" in his famous Scotty voice... I pretty much floated off the ground and sailed off into the stratosphere for being noticed by him.
He gave a talk to the audience that was interesting and funny, but he spoke in his "real" voice instead of sounding like Scotty. As we were walking to the car, my brother told me that the only time he heard James Doohan speak in his "Scotty" voice during his presentation was when he made the "fine lass" remark. Probably not, but I don't care, he sure made me happy that day!
The year before that, George Takei was the guest of honor at the ST convention. He was also very funny, but he sure didn't want to talk about Shatner. He was polite, but when anyone asked about their relationship after ST, he ignored their question and skipped to the next person. They quit asking. Years later I read that they were not on friendly terms.
Maybe Scotty was having some dementia in his old age too and forgot that Captain Kirk was dead.
Maybe he was disoriented after being in a transporter buffer after all that time?
@@toumbryth7862 he seemed to remember everything else. How many ships he’d served on, the rough time they had ferrying the Dohlman of Elas. Seems just too unlikely that he wouldn’t remember a legend in Starfleet like Kirk had died saving the Enterprise B.
Maybe the Eugenics Wars are supposed to be "secret" wars during the time they occurred, but became well-known afterward.
I recall reading the series The Eugenics Wars by Greg Cox where this was stated. The wars were seen publicly as local hot spots such as unrest in Central America, Middle East, etc. I'm not sure if it counts as cannon though.
@@stevk5181 That's actually a pretty solid retcon to explain what would otherwise be a continuity error. IIRC, it was explained that the Eugenics Wars, on the surface, appeared to be little more than "brushfire wars", but they were being directed behind the scenes by the genetically engineered supermen like Khan, etc., and that whole epoch was the precursor to WWIII in Star Trek history. Like you, I don't know if that's official ST canon, but it would work, maybe with a little tweaking around the edges.
@@stevk5181 Canon, it's not a gun!
They could also rewrite history books and change dates as told in novel 1984. The Romans restarted calendar before that in history if not our calendar would be long past year 2022.
@@rlm6213 I do recall hearing something as well. And I mean that's not entirely unreasonable. We hear about things in Europe like Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine, etc. "Small" regional conflicts that could eventually drag in global participation.
Adam Soong’s storyline in Picard might explain the missing Khan in the room… the “Shenzhen Convention” mentioned when he lost his license might have been drafted after the Eugenics War.
that's set in 2024 so Khan doesn't exist yet in that timeline despite supposedly been fighting the wars in 1997
@@madaknevarski6478 the folder Soong picked up did say June 1997 somewhere on it.
The one thing that is nice with the K'tinga class being in Enterprise is that it can be corrected right now. If TOS was able to get a full special effects make over, it wouldn't take much to fix the ship model issue in that Enterprise episode (They simply referred it to a Klingon Battlecruiser I think, please correct me, if I'm wrong). Same can be said with other special effects issues in other series as well.
The three timelines and three beams always bugged me too. But the one that really got me was the episode where La Forge and ensign Ro were "phased" by Romulan technology. Able to pass through solid objects such as doors and even one scene where the phased Romulan gets knocked through the bulkhead and into space. If this were all true then how come they do not fall through the deck (the floor) of the ship? What is holding them up?
I’ve given it some thought and perhaps it can be explained as the artificial gravity holding them in place and not actual matter preventing them from falling downward.
Plot Armor, lol
I think this is just a "mass" question really. When phased, that means that the matter still exists, but the matter has "lost it's ability to react with matter out of phase", but the mass has gone nowhere, and gravity still acts on mass. So the ship's artificial gravity probably pushes inwards (inertial dampeners, etc) , but parts of the ship that aren't generating gravity (eg walls, exterior hull) would be phased through given some inertial force.
That said, this is a common physics problem in fictional works, because any living being that could phase or teleport through a solid surface... how in the hell do they know they're not going to phase back stuck in a wall. Light would be out of phase , so theoretically, they shouldn't be able to see any of the surrounding matter that is out of phase. Then there is also oxygen (air) and water. The reason this remains a science-fiction/magic type of element is because it would be less interesting if you instantly die/spontaneously-decompress when not in phase.
@@superhayes256 It's not the strongest explanation ever, but I agree with you. The gravity netting in the floor was always the best explanation I could think of for why no one fell through the floor.
@@superhayes256 probably as good of an answer as we're ever going to get
In All Good Things you can just blame Q for any continuity errors. That’s how I deal with any Star Trek details that don’t make sense in general.
timelines are so hard to keep right, I don't blame them for struggling over the years lol
I always had a problem with ST2 when they get to Ceti Alpha 6 they didn't know it was Ceti Alpha 5??? They can chart the galaxy but yet have a problem figuring out how many planets are in the Ceti Alpha system???
They didn't realize at first because they arrived at the outermost planet,
but yeah you'd think they'd've charted the system n checked the damn maps better.
Though Kahn did say Ceti Alpha V's orbit shifted, so maybe it took VI's place?
@@tetravega567 yes, that's exactly what happened... Ceti Alpha VI exploded, and Ceti Alpha V's orbit shifted to be where VI previously was. This turned it into a barren wasteland, as VI had been. While it still seems like a silly mistake, surely V didn't _exactly_ match VI's orbit and other details, but perhaps it was close enough.
the planet exploded 😆
@@yzdatabase4175 happens all the time. Whenever you least expect it-I mean whenever you most need it for the script.
@@davej3781 I guess they didn't figure out "6" was really 5 because that's impossible. There is no way Mars could explode, and have Earth just kind of move into Mars's orbit. That was some real plot juggling.
In my mind, when Khan was doing his light reading in sickbay during Space Seed, he was paging through anything he could, including personnel records.
YEP that was my thought as well
Yeah, right. Personnel records are available to any rando with a viewing station. You gotta love civilians. And that goes for the 11 randos that gave that nonsense a thumbs up. You may be the next generation of Star Trek writers, you'd fit right in.
@@FIREBRAND38 Next generation??? I saw Wrath of Kahn in a theater in 1982…. But I’ll revise my statement to say “crew manifests.”
Congratulations on the 200k guys, massively well deserved!
This week's Picard Ups and Downs should get a Huge up for Trek Culture passing the goal a month early. Truly they are miracle workers.
Up to and including "Space Seed", Checkov was serving below the bridge or on another watch, maybe with Lt. Palmer- the blonde communications officer, or maybe M'Ress,maybe with O'Riley on Comm. Just because we didn't see him dont mean he wasn't there, just that the scene began after his departure or ended before his arrival.
Agreed, just because he wasn't in any scenes with Khan doesn't mean he wasn't on the Enterprise in some capacity that would allow Khan to recognize him. Not a continuity error IMO.
People noticed that right away at the time, but forgave it for just that reason. Characters came and went, and they didn't bother to welcome Chekov when he appeared, as if he were new.
I can see your point, but the way Khan said that he never forgot a face implied that he personally knew Chekov. Offscreen explanations rarely cover continuity errors and it seems both actor and director realized this.
I prefer the Enterprise C we got on screen - the Ambassador Class is my favourite design that isn't a series lead (and only just comes 2nd overall to the Constitution)
I don't care what anybody says. The Ambassador class Enterprise C is beautiful. AND, ANY differences from ships hanging on walls or other artist renditions can easily be chalked up to the refit process. LOL
Or the Artist taking liberties with the rendition itself, as in using artistic license on the wall sculpture with broad strokes or similar.
the Ambassador class is a million times better looking than the Galaxy-class.
I never considered the future beam from the Pasteur to be an error. Since Picard was on all three ships, at the same space (not at the same time, obviously) it’s not at all hard to think that he would have set the Pasteur’s deflector to identical settings as the two Enterprises that were there. And since he didn’t enter the anomaly until the third Enterprise got there anyway, it really didn’t make a difference.
I always believed Scotty’s memory was a little scrambled after so long in the buffer.
Right? I mean, how could it not!
🤣mine would be too!!🤣🤣🍻🖖
Also, he was quite old and at that age you might still remember that usually you're saved by Kirk and the Enterprise and you're used to it, but for now you might forget that Kirk was lost in space the last time you saw him.
and drinking too much "Green"
My theories:
Enterprise was scheduled to relieve Excelsior and was equiped to take over the assignment, until Spock pulled Kirk and co into meeting with Gordon.
Q lied about the Borg.
Bashir's "two decades" were cumulative not consecutive. IE there had been 20 years total where Earth and the Klingons weren't growling at one another.
Works for me. LLAP
As Janeway said Q is many things but he has never been a liar.
*Gowron. Bloody autocorrect.
@@quietinsound8087 Technically maybe... but still a deceiver. You can say things that are technically true, but still make people believe something that is false. Deception doesn't require lies, its the way of politics. Q could have been honest... when first encountered, they cared about the tech and computers and data, and didn't yet have interest in adding more drones.
Thank you to you and everyone else at Trekculture for making these delightful videos! Continue to Live Long and Prosper! I remain ever grateful!
To this day, "All Good Things" could have been a major motion picture and would have been an even more glorious ending to the greatest series in Trek.
Definitely. Better than Generations weak plot.
Other than the huge plot mistake not noted in this video. For future Picard, he caused the anomaly, which gets bigger in the past. But the left and came back and saw that he was "right" and that they had caused the anomaly. But they wouldn't have seen it because it started when they fired, the moved into the past, not the future.
Re: Khan knowing Chekov in ST:II TWOK-- A long time ago, I saw an interview with RM in which the interviewer asked him about it and it seems that Khan ran into Chekov when Chekov beat him to the bathroom on the Enterprise. I loved the way RM told the story and laugh about it to this day.
It's a great explanation, because people forget we don't see *everything* that happens in these missions. So what if Chekov wasn't seen in the episode? Maybe he was a lower-ranking crewman, or maybe it just wasn't his shift. :)
I’d argue Scotty didn’t “serve” on the Enterprise-B. He was just a guest during the launch.
Agreed, but that wasn't the error. The problem was that he should have known Kirk was dead when he was recovered on the Jenolan.
@@STNeish I was always under the impression that Kirk was listed as "Missing In Action" especially since they knew that the refugee's they were trying to save had somehow been INSIDE the anomaly and successfully extracted from it, meaning Kirk could be alive trapped inside it, hence Scotty thought Kirk might have been alive and had been saved.
@@darrenrichardson6146 Well... I don't think they expected that anyone would still be inside there, considering they all came out... but Kirk didn't, so perhaps they thought HE might still be in there.
The Ferengi in TNG were bluffing. They were hiding their true character by the same technique that tiny dogs use: Make yourself look as savage as possible.
Would fit in with their culture. Especially when dealing with another culture (at the time) they did not know and thus do not trust. Also when you consider the white background used to hide the appearance of the rest of their bridge during comms.
Also, in addition, not the best examples of the species either.
TWOK Chekov thing was not a mistake. Chekov was on sabbatical at that time. He was touring with his band, the Monkees. It was the 2267 Vulcan tour. The Monkees were very big on Vulcan. It's why Spock was always very avuncular with Chekov.
That was the Mohkeec, it was Russia.
He was also the opening act for Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.
No one ever says that the Eugenics Wars were global. It's possible that the US (the destination for nearly all Trek Time Travel™) was not involved in them, which would make references to them in US culture less common.
yeah, I seem to recall it largely being referred to as a war between European and Asian powers, even though they never really get into specifics all that much. Khan's name is an obvious reference to Mongolia after all, while the ideology seems rooted in the then-recent Nazi Germany.
I also agree that Khan could've run into Chekhov at any point onboard the original series episode.
First Contact is set after the aftermath of the Eugenics War for sure, but they do avoid any direct reference to it.
I believe the story Shatner had it changed in STVI, he gets alot of stick does Shatner but he was right here. It was much better for the original crew like Uhuru to be involved in saving the day than the Excellsior. Everyone attributes these moves as ego ones but Kirk isn't involved in that discussion its the rest of the crew. People also forget Walter Koenig's recollection of Shatner trying to get Chekov a bigger role in ST:TMP.
I have often felt like the writers hate the eugenic wars because it prevents them from portraying anything after the 90s effectively without going against Star Trek lore.
seriously. it's not hard to understand. When Star Trek predicted them, they were the future, but now they're a tacky alternate past which makes the star trek timeline more convoluted every time they reference it. The best way to deal with it IMO is move it 50 more years into the future, or just ignore it entirely...
Congratulations on 200,000 subscribers 🖖
DS9s Past Tense is one of the one of my favorite episodes. Right up there with City at the Edge of Forever.
You totally missed the changes in Klingon appearance though, but I guess we don't talk about it.
That one was explained in one of Shatner’s novels though.
just because Chekhov wasn’t on duty it doesn’t mean he wasn’t there
Kahn DID go through the computers.
Chekhov sure seemed to panic when he spotted the name "S. S. Botany Bay"
Chekov was on sabbatical. He was touring with his band, the Monkees. It was the 2267 Vulcan tour. The Monkees were very big on Vulcan.
You guys do wonderful work. As we are all sci-fi fans in general, I think we can all agree that when necessary, we will collectively hold our noses when disparities, small or large, are foisted into a story for good or ill.
Congrats on 200k!
The original series also made it clear that Earth had avoided nuclear war then the first episode if the next generation said there was a nuclear.
That's always been annoying to me that Trek writers can't be bothered to watch previous shows to see what's established.
well, its worse than that. When TNG was being made, Gene Roddenberry said he had no interest in treating TOS like it was absolute canon.
Everything that came from TNG ignored things established by TOS
And people these days get upset when new shows step on "established" canon. Like it's never happened before.
It's a big thing with Star Trek. Continuity and canon get stepped on pretty frequently.
I never really worried about that as I understood the nature of what I was watching - a Television series who's creators had no idea that it would be 'resurrected' 20 years later.
I mean, to have a new series appear 20 years later being limited to what was established in the original 1966 TV show? Especially given so much that changed in real life during that time span.
As long as it makes sense today, not really worried what was said 20 years earlier.
@@mustang6599 Right! I love the episode of STDS9 that used original footage of the "Trouble With Tribbles" from the original. They came up with an explanation for why Klingons look so different than they did in the earlier series, something about a virus epidemic that changed the way they looked.
Considering how many hours created of ST, and how many different writers there have been, I think they do pretty well at keeping continuity in mind. I don't even mind the episodes that were "clunkers" and downright silly. A "bad" episode of Star Trek is still 100 times better than a "good" so-called "reality" show like "The Bachelor".
I've always chalked up the Scotty error as more him responding to the name Enterprise. So for a moment, he still believed Kirk and crew heard he was missing and once again rode in on the Enterpirse for the rescue.
Yeah well, but if he should have known that Kirk was dead, the reaction was still incorrect...
How about Kirk's line in The Undiscovered Country when the Klingon battle cruiser appeared and he said," I've never been this close" when in fact he was aboard a Klingon vessel in the previous movie! That always bothered me.
Specifically referring to a D7/K’tinga, which is larger than the B’rel
Either that or he meant that he'd never been that close to a Klingon ship in an instance where a) they weren't under red alert or b) they weren't otherwise anticipating being shot at.
@@ShaolinShadowStroke I always took it as the ships never been that close without shooting at each other.
Relics: The Nexus was not the first time Kirk was declared dead and returned and Scotty may have learned from Guinan that Kirk could leave it any time he wants.
Guinan can see alternate timelines and knew that she couldn't tell Scotty (or Picard) what was going to happen.
@@Paulafan5 Guinan could have easily told Scotty not to say anything.
Congratulations on the 200k! 🙂
I don't think I'd call the Enterprise-C a "dumb mistake", they just decided not to go with Andrew Probert's design (for whatever reason, but the revised version was simpler & cheaper to make even though it's not a kitbash)
And to be fair, the Enterprise-B as seen in 'Generations' doesn't look like a standard Excelsior-class ship either
correct. The Enterprise-B is technically an Excelsior Refit class ship
The Scotty bit could easily be explained by calling him mentioning Kirk an expression more than him actually thinking Kirk was still around
Just here to point out that Chekov appears in the S2 episode "Catspaw" on Stardate 3018.2, whilst the Khan S1 episode "Space Seed" took place on Stardate 3141.9. So whilst Chekov wasn't there in episode order, he was a;ready on the Enterprise in Stardate order.
And, BTW, Nick Meyer wasn't just a director who spotted the 'mistake' - he wrote the script himself.
Star dates aren't linear
stardates in the original series were literally just four random numbers and a decimal point, consistent within a single script, but not between multiple.
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It could be argued that the Borg were initially only interested in technology and viewed humans themselves as too primitive, until they managed to put up a fight and then suddenly vanished when Q sent them back home. I also wonder if this continuity error was meant to be addressed by the _Enterprise_ episode "Regeneration"...as in the signal sent in that episode finally reached the Borg _after_ their encounter in J25.
Seriously, the fact time travel both exists in Star Trek and that the Borg have been involved in multiple time travel plots can be used to hand wave most inconsistencies related to them as simply stories happening in variant time lines.
The thing that got me about the "gaseous anomalies" thing, was that no one had thought of using a "heat seeker" to shoot a cloaked ship before (aside from the fact that a doctor and a science officer could modify a torpedo so fast)
The distinction with Chang's Bird of Prey is it could fire while cloaked. I feel like they left out this rationale for some reason, maybe even cutting room floor. One would think the energy output required to make that possible would be greater than normal.
It actually makes perfect sense for the Borg to disregard assimilating crewmembers on a first encounter. The Borg don't really care when Starfleet personnel come aboard their own ships, let alone being on a ship where they belong. They were interested in the tech, and only became interested in Humanity after the Enterprise escaped them.
The Borg were going to assimilate the crew too, but their technology was what most interested them.
There's good chance they already encountered humans before, but technology they found was insufficient to pique their interest. Purpose of The Collective is to uplift technologically advanced, but (from their point of view) socially primitive species, to become perfect society, which Borg believe The Collective is. Likely the Enterprise was far more advanced than what they found so far, proving Species 5618 (Borg designation for Humans) more technologically advanced than innitially estimated, and "mature" enough for assmiliation to The Collective.
as to #9: What if Chekov was on the Enterprise, but was not bridge crew yet? he literally appears as bridge crew in the very next episode....that was alway my logic growing up with both
Owning to Star Trek's History, and Continuity.....it has never really been very consistent with itself
Technically there were episodes where Sulu, Uhura, or Scotty are missing due to availability or script or cost. Doesn't mean in-universe they weren't on the ship. Just the part we saw... they were not around.
as far as #2, i remember when we frist saw the borg they had a nursery on their ship with baby borg, then later they said they didn't have young by birth or however they were created, the only grew their numbers by assimilation
Maybe they assimilated someone who was pregnant. Borg "maturation chambers" are mentioned a few times in Voyager, it's where they store assimilated children.
Scotty knew Kirk had Died. He knew that people could die and come back. He did it himself. He expected Kirk to beat death. No mistake there.
Yeah, but every other time someone on the crew “beat death”, the body was still around and they came back pretty quick. Kirk had been blown out into the vacuum of space when a huge chunk of the hull was blasted off the Enterprise B. Scotty retired months or maybe years later. It’s unbelievable that anyone, even Scotty, would still hold unto the unrealistic hope Kirk had cheated that kind of death.
I don't consider the "gas sniffing" in ST6 to be an error or mistake. There's no reason to think the Enterprise wouldn't also be carrying the equipment needed to survey gaseous anomalies.
Agreed. They talked about it like it was just sitting around collecting dust. Plus, I believe Uhura was the one who came up with the “tailpipe” idea.
Yeah well, for ships on "routine" duty that might be true, but the Enterprise and her crew were specifically selected for the escort mission and were supposed to be scrapped afterwards. So that kind of equipment would likely have been removed and shifted to other ships with a longer life-cycle ahead...
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About the Borg error. both can be true. In QWho, the Borg weren't interested in the crew, just the technology. In BPBW, assimilation became the priority when the Borg decided the Federation has technology that would serve them.
Exactly, the Borg assimilate species with technology that interests them... though they will also do so if they need more drones in a sector or the resources on a planet. They go species by species because they think mechanically.
You know, you mentioned Past Tense toward the end, there. It's getting dangerously close to the year that two-parter takes place, and present-day politics in the United States make it fairly possible something similar could happen in our reality.
I'm totally okay with "Scotty knew Kirk had died, but he knew Kirk (and the Nexus) so well that it wouldn't have surprised him if Kirk himself had come back to save him from the pattern buffer." I don't see a continuity error... just an overly-optimistic scottsman.
In ST 3, which takes place in the year 2285, Admiral Morrow stated that the Enterprise that was about to decommissioned was 20 years old. However, in canon the Enterprise was commissioned in 2245, which makes the ship 40 years old.
I've seen a theory that seeing the entrprise quick made the Borg change their aims to assimilate beings also as they seemed to have knowledge they could use
Yes, because the way the Borg work, they can't really 'develop' new technologies on their own, they can only assimilate it and modify it to suit their needs. They are NOT 'inventors'! That only comes from indviduality!
@@DMSProduktions yes and seeing how far a federation ship had come not knowing Q sent them. They started to assimilate people to get knowledge. Meeting them changed them that's the theory so not like a mistake
@@stephenrobinson8244 Yeah seems so:ABSORB beings that CAN invent stuff!
DS9 (Through the Looking Glass) Klingon and Cardassian ships De Cloak, DS9 (Emperors New Cloak) "We don't have cloaks"
Those were all old models that burned out... why they needed a new one ;P
Maybe they don't have effective cloaking technology (not against starships).
Scotty said he “ served” on 2 Enterprises… not been “on” 2.
Yeah but he really forgot that the A was decommissioned and Jim Kirk died on the B. What’s worse is that it was written by the same guy.
Enterprise 1701 was destroyed in "Star Trek III: Search for Spock" and by the tim e"Undiscovered Country" came around that was a new Enterprise (1701-A). So yeah, Scotty did indeed serve on two Enterprises.
Great show! Very insightful and informative.
the last one about eugenic wars always gets me, bugged me with Voyager and now with Picard
To be fair, the Picard series is showing the time shortly before the eugenic wars and ww3
I guess what SFDebris speculated is true and it was just covered up as the premise to TMNT...
@@viciousyeen6644 the eugenics war was in the late 20th century
@@viciousyeen6644 Ehm...didn´t the eugenic wars happen in the 1980s and 90s?`
So way before the excuse Picard is currently selling as "plot"
With all the ethnic cleansing, and genocide campaigns around the world I'm pretty sure the Eugenics Wars actually happened, and are still going on. Unfortunately. Plus the genetics research, and the clone sheep Dolly.
First time seeing Kahn - First Series, Space Seed. - First time seeing Pavel Chekov - Second series, Cat's Paw.
Space Seed - Stardate 3141.9 - Cat's Paw - Stardate 3018.2
Kahn knew or would have seen Chekov even though we never saw the two on screen in Space Seed.
It would be interesting to see these old episodes in Stardate order.
Why couldn't both ships be carrying equipment to catalogue gaseous anomalies?
They're kinda all over the place. Send a a ship here, send another ship there...
That’s the way I handled it.
Still, it would have been nice for Sulu to show up and save the day.... but as it currently stands, all they did was sit there and draw fire. Almost pointless.
The Klingon ship design was not introduced in "Errand of Mercy." At the time of The Original Series' production, the budget did not allow for a Klingon model until the third season--and in fact, in air order, the first view of the Klingon ships was in "The Enterprise Incident," where it was used by Romulans! In the remastered episodes with new CGI effects, Klingon vessels were added to episodes that did not originally feature them (another one being "The Trouble With Tribbles"), so in that sense, the ships' first appearance is in "Errand of Mercy"--but it wasn't originally that way.
I remember when the Romulans suddenly had the Warbird, and it didn’t look anything like the previous ships.
Encounter at Farpoint - Q's "rapid progress" seems to insinuate that humanity suffered another collapse post-First Contact. This isn't mentioned again.
Also, the continuity issue with All Good Things' inverse tachyon beams could simply be explained as a throwaway remark by Data - he set up all three, so they should've been very similar. The Enterprise would've undergone numerous refits in 25 years including to the deflector and it would be somewhat odd for each deflector to have its own signature, so why should the Pasteur's be any different?
Was that definitely post First contact though? It said about colonising worlds, but that could have just been the moon, mars and other planets in the solar system
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and informatively explained and executed in every way and form in detail and format of these matters indeed👌...
I think it's reasonable to assume that many Starships were issued gas-sniffing tech to participate in a Starfleet mapping campaign.
All Starfleet vessels would have sensor probes and would chart gasseous anomalies. Didn't seem like a "dumb mistake".
i think the eugenics wars were delayed by the crash of the future vessel in that voyager episode, this is often cited as a splitting of the timeline from one where the computer revolution didnt happen, in which the eugenics wars did, and one where it did and why the tech on the original series is so antiquated.
I can’t believe that no one considers that Khan reviewed Starfleet records and crew for Enterprise.
exactly!
Yeah, Khan had "superior intellect". In Space Seed I can imagine him speed-reading the Enterprise's personnel files or crew roster to gather as much Intel as possible.
In my head, I imagined that the Eugenics Wars had been initiated by Temporal Cold War enemy agents, and were "later" wiped from history when the proper timeline was restored by guys like Captain Braxton. This would be the reason why Janeway's crew didn't even know about them.
Great video, Sean! How about looking at the huge error (in my opinion) in the Star Trek movie (Kelvin timeline) when a simple Romulan mining ship went after Spock's one-man ship, got caught in a black hole and came through a 150 years in the past suddenly armed to the teeth and able to easily defeat the USS Kelvin...way beyond the simple mining ship's abilities, that's for sure.
The Romulan mining ship was enhanced with Borg technology, probably from the Artifact, before they went after Spock.
@@chbu7081: true, but that's never covered in the primary canon of the movie, instead reading a secondary source is required to get that detail, which is still bad writing on the part of the movie.
That said, the whole Borg aspect wasn't really needed in the first place. Technology in Star Trek has always been shown to advance rapidly. Whenever time travel has pitted two ships from different eras against each other the more advanced ship from the future always completely out classes the one from the past. So a mining ship from the 2380s obliterating a science vessel from 2230s is pretty much entirely in keeping with precedent.
I always thought the Ambassador class was gorgeous, both on screen and in various games.
You think that they had only 1 ship studying gaseous anomalies for an entire quadrant.
Clearly, they've never seen Star Trek before. How many times has the Enterprise D been studying gaseous anomalies?
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The ‘All good things’ anomaly ALWAYS bugged me because it was supposed to be running backwards in time. So the Pasteur would have found the anomaly and when scanned closed it, not created it.
That always bugged me, too. Especially because Picard figuring out that it grows backwards from the point where he created it was supposed to be the thing that proves humanity's potential. But then he insists they go back and see it, which shouldn't have worked in the future timeline!
Q should have concluded humanity was too dumb to be saved after all. 😁
Absolutely correct.
I think the anomaly was actually doing both. It started at a point in time and was getting bigger in BOTH time directions (past and future).
To be fair, for the Voyager episodes that took place in 1996, they were in an altered timeline because of Captain Braxton's failed attack on the Voyager had sent both ships into the past. His ship had drooped onto Earth in the 70's, allowing a hippie to get a hold of it and start up his own business to reverse engineer the ship. This altered the future. When the Time ship was destroyed by Voyager and another Braxton came along to set Voyager back in its proper place in time, the altered timeline was fixed. Thus the Eugenics wars were also placed back into their proper place in time.
As for DS9's trip to the past to the Bell Riots, the exact year was 2024, not the 1990s. The Eugenics wars were over but their impact was still being felt as so many people were now poor and destitute and were put into Sanctuary districts.
One detail that always bugged me is in Undiscovered Country, why are their phasers in an unlocked cabinet in the kitchen???
Maybe the food wasn't good and they had to defend themselves 🤣
I always assumed there was just a future lock and Valeris, being a Bridge officer, unlocked it with her hand print or something - still doesn't explain why they're in the Galley though
The "mistake" you mention with Ferengi ignores the Ferengi in question were military where Quark and many other encounters were civilian. The military could easily have different priorities and rules. I can quote you U.S. military rules of conduct that you would find alien and "UnAmerican".
In Star Trek Picard, 21st century Guinan doesn't know him... she's already met him in the 19th century.
But not in that timeline, I guess.
@@elducky9574 Doesn't matter. Guinan can see the changes in the timeline (ie Yesterday's Enterprise) so she should still have remembered Picard.
She doesn't know him *yet*. She has a finely tuned time sense. She knows she's not supposed to meet him yet.
In the TNG episode "Samaritan Snare," when Picard and Wesley are talking:
Picard: "Several friends and I were on leave at Farspace Starbase Earhart. It was little more than a galactic outpost in those days."
Wesley: "Was this before the Klingons joined the Federation?"
Picard: "That's right."
Ughhh lol
Later in star trek they just stopped giving the Eugenics war a concrete timeframe. Enterprise makes it sound like WWIII was the Eugenics war. Quite frankly the writers in the 60s just over estimated how far we'd advance by 1999
Or.......underestimated and we never even realized the Augments took over because they were that much more subtle.
Even more likely, they had no idea that in 1999 (and for at least 23 years after) we'd still be watching Star Trek. Or that we'd care about it as much as we do.
One of the puzzling other things about The Wrath of Khan was that they mistook the planet at all. I would think that a basic scan would make you think "Hey! weren't there 7 planets in this system last time we came by? We're missing one."
Simply messing up/not paying attention to the scan results doesn't seem likely but there's some theories that maybe the data wasnt entered in correctly to begin with (for whatever reason) so technically the scan in Wrath *was* correct. Thats what I think likely happened but eh...
The Eugenics war date is retconed, and then retconed again in Picard season 2
Other then that, great list
In "All Good Things..." the 3 beams coming from the Enterprise can still make sense. Since it is "anti-time" (or the flow of time is reversed, however you want to think of it) even though the future Enterprise initiated the beam later, it could and would still be present when view from the past with time running backwards.
As for the Borg they did disect the primary hull and take 18 crew in Q Who so just because Assimilation wasn't shown in universe at that point....
take? or were they blown our into space ( i know they didnt actually show bodies flying out but thats probably what happened.
@@omega311888 only if their bodies was the only physical matter not affected by a tractor beam...
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Guinan not knowing Picard in PIC when they clearly had met in the 19th century on TNG. Struggling to justify it as just memory loss over 200 years.
I was thinking about that and well Q altered the timeline so there is no guarantee that Picard had went back and met her in the 19th century or had known her in the 24th
I think people spend too much time worrying about and trying to explain, things that are just victims of circumstance, budgets, ideas that just didn't work, or revamps of ideas that did work (such as the look of the Trill from TNG to DS9). It's all entertainment.
I would love to see an episode about why Dr. Noonien Soong and Khan Noonien Singh have almost the same name, and NO ONE mentions it.
Picard Season 2, episode 10. But we all saw that "twist" coming a mile away.
Thank You! I was personally attempting to see if those time lines did intersect. It may an interesting episode to line up all the visits from everyone in the early 21 Century in chronological order…
I thought the Shenzen Conventions was a direct reference to the Eugenics Wars?
This seems the most obvious. Just like folks in the 70s weren't directly mentioning WWII everyday. Now WWIII....
My List of 10 More Dumb Mistakes Star Trek Wants You To Forget:
10. Odo's marriage to Lwaxana Troi in DS9 that everyone just forgot about.
9. Spot starts out as a male cat in TNG but is changed to female later in the series so she can have kittens.
8. The windows of the Enterprise shattering like glass during the crash scene in Star Trek Generations, despite the fact they're transparent aluminum (thank you, Plinkett review).
7. The Klingon's change in appearance in TNG (if you're going to bring up the Borg's character change, this is fair game too).
6. Deanna and Lwaxana Troi having completely different accents in TNG.
5. That maximum warp speed limit of Warp 5 in TNG that everyone just immediately forgot about (or ignored...like the real speed limit).
4. How they handled Jadzia Dax's (DS9) and Tasha Yar's (TNG) deaths.
3. That one episode of Voyager. You all know the one I'm talking about.
2. J.J. Abrams lens flare.
1. Discovery.
Could have Q just lied when he said the Borg were only interested in technology? I mean, we know it’s a goof, but we could say Q was lying in “Q Who.” I need to get back into Trek. Thanks for jump starting my interest again. I need to get (is it?) Paramount+ anyway, so I’ll give Picard a try!
Or they needed the tech first to figure out if they were advanced enough to bother with.
Thankyou sir for the video!