How Hot Do Your Brakes Get?
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- Опубліковано 18 бер 2017
- How Hot Do Your Brake Rotors And Pads Get?
300 Degree C Brakes From Burnout - • Huge Burnout With A Th...
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FLIR T1K Camera - amzn.to/2mgV8XS
Affordable Thermal Camera - amzn.to/2j2gnNh
In this video we are checking out the rear disc brakes of a Honda S2000 using a Flir T1K thermal camera. I’ve got the rear of the car up on jack stands, and I’ll be turning the car on, placing it in first gear, and running the rear wheels to observe the amount of heat generated by the rear brakes.
We’ve got five data points to observe while the disc is heating up. Point 1 is the leading edge of the brake pad. Point 2 is the brake rotor before the brake pad, point 3 is the brake rotor after passing through the brake caliper, point 4 is the wheel hub, and point 5 is the back of the brake pad.
Eventually I’ll be pulling the hand brake, but to start off you can see that as the brake disc rotates, a portion of it is slightly hotter than the rest. It’s important to note that this camera is extremely sensitive to temperature variations, so even a slightly warped rotor, or a rotor with just slightly varying thickness, will easily show up based on the temperature differential. I can’t feel any vibration form the rotor while driving, but it’s cool that this is something you can visualize with a thermal camera.
Revving up the engine, there are currently no brakes applied. Now I’ll continue to rev the engine, and at this point I am lightly applying the rear parking brake, and temperatures are beginning to slowly rise. It is interesting to see that the point after passing through the brake pad is indeed a bit hotter than the point before entering the brake pad, even though the time duration from point to point is so small.
Revving the engine at about 3000 RPM and simultaneously pulling the handbrake, we can see temperatures as high as 138 degrees. It’s also pretty neat to see the interaction at the very front of the brake pad. It seems that while the surface of the brake pad gets super hot, that heat hasn’t yet passed though the depth of the pad entirely.
Brake rotors and pads in street use typically won’t see temperatures exceeding about 200 degrees Celsius, however on track days where the brakes are continuously burdened, temperatures can exceed 500 degrees, or about a 1000 Fahrenheit, pretty easily. The brake fluid itself can also get hot, which is why DOT 3 & 4 brake fluids are designed to have a boiling point over 200 Celsius. This number will drastically reduce, however, as the brake fluid ages and ingests water. Brake systems are not perfectly air tight, and brake fluid is hygroscopic, meaning that it absorbs moisture from the air. This is why it’s important to change your brake fluid every few years, especially if you track your car, to ensure the fluid never reaches its boiling point and you experience significant brake fade.
You can also see on this vehicle, even after the brake rotors reached temperatures well over 100 Celsius, that the brake line itself is actually quite cool. What’s more critical, however, is that the brake fluid within the caliper and actuating the caliper piston remains below its boiling point.
It’s also interesting to see that it seems wheels can act as a heat sink for your brakes, as the heat from your brakes passes to your wheels, and then to the ambient air as the wheel spins. It would certainly be interesting to see if certain wheel materials, whether steel, aluminum, or carbon fiber, would allow for better braking performance as a result of improved cooling of the rotors.
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Can you possibly do a short video just like this, but with a ventilated rotor?? It would be nice to compare this rotor to a vented one. Maybe we will be able to see the veins inside the rotor heat up and whatnot! Love the videos by the way!
200°C .... try this same thing on a Chevrolet Cargo Van, they will probably be 400°C, they are very undersized IMO.
ayo 6 yrs ago and no replies ?
Ok
Interesting that this is posted today. During NASCAR practice yesterday, it was noted that due to the heavy cars, 3400+ lbs, small tires and wheels, the brakes generate tremendous heat. The brake rotors and calipers fill nearly all of the space within the small wheel so that most cooling comes from ducting the teams add for cooling.
Due to brake technology, the brake systems don't fail anymore but what does happen is that the heat generated from the system gets transferred to the steel wheel and melts the bead of the tire causing tire failure.
jmurphy1973 That's neat.
jmurphy1973 The wheel acts as a heat sink and when you go to a track day you can definitely feel the wheel heat up. Do NASCAR cars really transfer so much heat to the tires that it melts the rubber? If this were a common occurrence you would see constant tire failure. However that's not the case. The wheel must be acting like a sufficiently effective heat sink to mitigate this.
I dont really get nascar. Subpar cars, nothing that could be called "track" and thats basically it. Why do people do that?! lel
Sheesh NASCAR is pretty much a drafting contest. Although it might not look like much, it does require a degree in skill especially to know when and when not to brake. I personally am in to motor cross or rally car racing but I've seen these motorsports, they all have their spirits and I respect them equally. But I also like to tease them around :)
Not every week the teams race in 95 degree temps, like they are encountering this week in Phoenix.
that's really cool....can you do one on exhaust system ( tailpipe + muffler + catalytic converter, etc ).....
+Sachin Dangi yes, this will happen! :)
Are the visibly black paints also good absorbers at IR wavelengths? I guess the IR camera could be used to determine the suitability of the black paint?.
I am glad people are discussing this... I had some thoughts about the people that chromed their entire engines... The chromed parts are almost mirrors at visible wavelengths. If that continues for IR wavelengths, they have increased the operating temp of their chromed parts if they are hot parts.
That was incredibly interesting! Thanks for the insight Jason! Does the reflective surface of the rotor skew the data?
Somewhat, yes, but you can calibrate the camera for it and get pretty darn close.
Engineering Explained, the only 'issue' after adjusting for the emissivity of the reflective rotor is itll skew the results of the rusted part. Not much you can do when putting everything together in the same picture. I work with thermal cameras for a living and its nice to be able to use it for fun stuff like this as well. Thanks for making this series of vids with the thermal camera.
Gears and Gasoline another interesting thing about thermal cameras is that clear glass acts like a mirror to a thermal image. Visible light can pass through the glass but thermal energy (mostly) gets reflected back.
As a brake engineer, yes, aluminum wheels improve brake fade performance vs steel wheels (of course shape of wheel plays a role too). I have never tried carbon fiber yet it should be worse since it's thermal conductivity is typically less than Aluminum. Yet that also depends on the carbon fiber and once again wheel shape.
Cool story bro.
If the wheel can function as a heat sink for the brakes, could the application of thermal paste between the hub and wheel increase breaking performance? And which kind of wheel would be better for this purpose (shape and material wise)? As a car and PC gaming enthusiast I am exited for what we could learn from this.
ElZamo92 asking the real question there
ElZamo92 you could be onto something
I thunk some thermal grizzly conductonaut will do the trick and maybe if u lap the wheel hub it will help the cooling efficiency
out of the wheel material choices given: steel, aluminum, carbon fiber, or magnesium.... aluminum is the best conductor. however, most aluminum wheels are painted to prevent corrosion, the paint can act as an insulator. another factor is the caliper, a heavy steel caliper retains lots of heat while an aluminum one helps dissipate it more quickly.... and the steel one will more likely help contribute to warped rotors over time. as for if a conductive paste would help, not sure try it if you want.
Any paste you apply would probably get squeezed out when you tighten down the wheel, and if you put a thermal spacer it would act like a wheel spacer and change your wheel offset which could hurt suspension performance.
And you want the wheel to absorb some of the heat of the brakes to help with cooling, but only up to a certain point and after the wheels get too hot it heats up the tires too much and can hurt your tire's grip.
Wheels certainly Can absorb and transfer heat from the brakes of a vehicle.
When I worked in a shop, this is one way we were sometimes able to spot brake issues with a customer vehicle when doing inspection during routine services like oil changes and tire rotations. While inspecting brakes for pad thickness, adjusting tire pressure or rotating tires, you can sometimes notice that one wheel is significantly hotter than another (sometimes to the point where you can't touch it bare handed!), or spins much less freely than the other. More often than not when this happens, you would find the pads to be much more worn on that corner, either from a warped rotor or sticking caliper.
This was really informative. I love that you can see whether or not a rotor is warped. The Flir camera seems like a very useful tool.
Really cool to see the IR reflection of the wheel in the brake rotor! Great video, Jason!
Thanks Jason, have a good days.
thank you for this illustration
I enjoy your videos and find them interesting and informative.
I just learned a lot. Good vid man. Simple and effective
Extremely good information
Nice explanation, thanks!
Great job done, thanks for making this video,, cheers
great video as always
keep up doing good work!
nice video as always james
love your videos man keep it up!!!
Great video, keep up the good work.
Cool, I like this Video a lot. I also learn something new today, thank you !!!
That was very informative. Thanks!
I was also amazed the camera detected run out that was not enough to cause a noticeable vibration. It would be interesting to know how much run out produced the graphic result you experienced. Another great video.
Jason, thank you for the very informative video. As others have alluded to below, the camera may be helpful for investigating possible causes of rotor warpage. Our 2007 Honda Odyssey warps rotors every couple of years, and the exact cause has been a source of debate in my house.
Sticking brake pad. Probably the inner one. I have the same issue on my Honda, then found out that was the problem.
Helpful for car maintainance
You should do drum breaks too! See which ones cool down faster, the differences in operation, types of other beaks, etc.!
Now those are interesting datapoints! Thanks for sharing them and how much heat the brakes create. This can explain why electric and hybrid (the later being more complicated!) cars can take advantage of the heat conducted from those breaks. I'm pretty sure aluminum wheels can provide a good heat sink for those wheels, unless the paint is a minor insulator.
you're having way to much fun with this thermal camera
wow man thanks soooo much foir this video....great one!!!
Engineering Explained, i love your videos man. Well done once again.
+Ka1Winters thank you!
who thought thermal cam is this useful ,you are a real creative engineer Jason .
This was a freakin cool video and that question at the end is totally one worthwhile...
this guy the homie. had to pop the comment like situation.
I'm trying to learn about drum brakes and disk brake temp differences.
I am loving these thermal videos, great visualization of water is going on in cars. I am money is on aluminium wheels at the better material, since the metal transfer heat quickly and is lighter than steel.
Cool! I'm happy, I did asked for this ( not like Jensen) lol. It,s cool the see wheel helping brake cooling. I know that some sport car car have their wheel design with cooling and air flow towards the brake in minds. They can act as fans. This might increase the air resistance thought. Heat is such a huge part of everything about cars, is fun to be able to see it. Thanks
Would have been cool if you put a fan blowing past the side of the car to replicate airflow while driving
Thanks for the video, especially after the last video comments
I knew breaks got hot but never knew how hot. Thanks for the video!!
Very informative and a great video.
I’m sure that alloy wheels or other suck stuff would in fact cool the brakes faster. They usually have a lot more space or air spaces for the air to pass between them.
I would also be very interested to know if the claims behind drilled rotors is true. Some even claim differences of up to 150 degrees in their drilled rotors.
Interesting to see the wheel heat up. I had a sticky brake, which I continually checked by feeling the bolts.
Just when I thought this channel couldn't possibly get any cooler! Hahaha.
Could you do the same for drum brakes?
Jason,
first off I'm a huge fan of your vids and have learned a substantial amount of the years.
this particular vid has raised some questions that your mechanical engineering mindset may be able to answer.
scenario: in my Mazdaspeed3 I have recently replaced my pads rotors. I failed to clean the mating surface of the rotor and hub as well as properly installing the pad retaining springs on the pad the first time around. with the car jacked up I notice a significant amount of run-out which causes judder at high speeds. they do not judder at low speed braking my poor installation techniques have also led to the 10,000 mile old rotors to have grooves across the surface.
now here's my question. when doing numerous high speed braking, what would cause the judder to worsen at high speeds and be noticeable at low speeds?
obviously heat is a factor here because once the system cools the problem dissolves. I was hoping to see some sort of engineering explained type of answer as Google searches have failed me here.
Thanks
Hey ! Very nice video. Can you record the temperature of the rotor during hard brake ? For example accelerate at 60 mph (on speedometer) and hit the brake until the rotor stop to get an idea the amount of energy absorbed by the rotor. Thanks !
dude it didnt ocurr to me that rim material would interact with break disc hrat dissipation! thats pretty cool, and an insight into professional racing .
Your thumbnail had me worried! Glad to see that it was a FLIR image.
It has been my experience as a parking lot racer (SCCA Solo 2) and as a Pro Rally racer, that wheels do in fact work as a heat sink for brakes (aluminum vs. steel). One thing I was never able to determine was at what temperature do brake pads catch fire. As I recall, toward the end of the 3rd stage at the STPR rally in Pennsylvania, it was a tight twisting road racing down hill, and I would be a little too heavy left foot braking, and would come into the Finish Control with my front brake pads aflame. the full metallic pads and Brembo rotors would still be working fine, and I would finish the event without changing them (the pads), the bonding agent of the pads would be compromised, and would soon crumble apart. Videos easily show Rally Cars blasting through corners with glowing rotors, but as far as I know, I'm the only one that was able to ignite my brake pads. When fellow competitors commented that their brake did not catch fire, I simply asked them to compare our Stage times.
Do the wheel type difference video! That's be sweet!
Do drilled and slotted brakes next! 👍
The type of wheel to influence dissipation would be pretty interesting to see
It would be interesting to see this but with different types of rotors like slotted, vented vs non vented
Pretty interesting that the wheels themselves can act as a heat sink and cool the brakes. I just did a Brembo brake swap on my 240sx and posted a how to on my channel. I've got a thermal gun and it it will be pretty cool to see what temps they reach on a track day:
This was a great test/observation. can you do it again at some point with aftermarket performance pads and rotors? thanks
Dude!! i would love a camera like that!
Potential video topic: always use parking brake? even in an automatic not on a hill?
Pros and cons of disc versus drum brakes?
0:27 super interesting that the reflection of your leg shows up as bright as it does on the brake rotor. Can't imagine the rotor is heating up instantaneously from your leg passing by but it does go to show the infrared coming off your leg truly acts just like light (EM wave) and reflects off a mirror-like surface. On an unrelated note, the rest of the video is interesting too.
You're having WAY too much fun with that FLIR camera... lol
something I'd really like to see would be the warm up of a hot V engine vs a conventional V engine, along with their respective intake temperatures, an. engineering explained on hot V engines would be interesting as well showing the pros/cons of the setup
Great vid!!!! can u do again simulating air ventilation while moving??? u can use a fan.
Very interesting indeed.
It would be cool if you could do this with a comparison of stock rotors vs 2 piece rotors, and stock vs drilled or slotted rotors!
I think I've just seen the most useful UA-cam advert before this video... Nissan tire repair kit roadside use :) that I can watch
Hey Jason it's Luke, you met me. I forgot to thank you for helping people like me by uploading your videos. I also want to thank you for taking time from your vacation to talk about your work haha. It really means a lot. Enjoy your vacation! Also! I was really angry I didn't get a picture haha. Ah well. Thanks again! Your the best.
Cool video
Can we get this with drum brakes too?
I'm trying to work out some carbon rotors on my Elise. If they ever become operational, you're more than welcome to come over and get some footage of the carbon rotors in action.
this is why F1's are hard on their brakes during their warmup lap, the heat generated will transfer to the tires, warming them up, it isn't just about the friction on the ground, but the brakes keep them warm as well
pls make for brake fluid temperature on heavy braking
There's so many potential things to do with this camera! Never really thought about the fact that brake fluid can get quite hot under certain circumstances before.
is the brake rotor wobbling caused without the use of lug nuts?
you're screwing with me man!!! i need you to do more car reviews....You're car reviews are one of a kind !! VERY DIFFERENT THAT ALL OF THESE FAKE CAR ENTHUSIASTS!!
So Cool!
I've noticed that with my car. After a bit of 'spirited' driving, the alloys themselves get fairly warm. It must aid with brake heat dissipation I guess.
When you brake without a wheel, the little screw holding the brakedisc on the axle has to handle with all the torque. With a wheel fitted on the axle, the force is transmitted by the Wheelnuts/bolts. The tiny screw is just for centering (holes in disc are bigger than wheelbolts) and holding the disc when there is no rim to prevent it from falling of.
See 0:00 - 0:07 for the smaller bolts and the tiny screw.
+1 Some nuts should holds the disk. Less vibration, more honest test.
THANK YOU for doing this in C (not that ghastly F scale)!
Can you please do one on the intercooler temperature gradient and show how significant the difference in intake air temperature is with and without an intercooler ?
i heard a while back that a company looking into carbon fibre wheels were concerned about about the heat transfer rate compared to metallic wheels and what it would mean for the cooling of the brakes, as I think it goes without saying, these wheels would likely be on higher performance vehicles and the heat transfer would be a lot more crucial.
Yes very interesting well set up video. However, what I was looking for was the normal running temperatures BEFORE the brakes are actually applied. The drag in other words. How much residual drag is normal?
Please do a vídeo with a perforated disc in order to compare its efficiency
It would be interesting to see how ceramic pads affect the heat, especially on the brake caliper, as they absorb less heat than regular pads
Can you compare different types of rotors this way
Could you do a test to see what temperatures looks like if you used those plastic caliper covers,
You probably should have put the lugs back on to make sure the rotor was on there as perfectly-straight as possible...
There is a clean strip on the rusty surface what makes it look like it warmer in the begining.
So, what would it take to start seeing a rise in the temperature of the brake fluid? (fascinating video, btw)
brake drum would be interested to see do this aswell
@engineeringexplained, I was keen to see hotspots and get more knowledge on that.
shoot. i got lucky last week that somehow one rear brake caliber was to say broken as it stayed somewhat stuck to the rotors. that grinding sound while driving sure made it hot. luckily i had drilled and slotted rotors to keep it from further damages
You should test the Tesla Turbine Wheel design, to see if it makes a dramatic difference in cooling compared to a standard 5 spoke wheel design and a custom wheel design... I think that'd make for an interesting video alongside your wheel material one! :D
i'm really curious about this camera, last video, we've learnt it cant see smoke, this video it shows the heat of a reflection.
can you please do an episode about the camera and show us how it works. thank you, nice vid as always :D
Could you do this with a aftermarket bbk to see the difference?
I am interested to see how fast the disc cools after short hard braking?
I might or might not get apply for a bachelor's thesis regarding heat distribution and heat induces cracking of large steel brake discs. I always thought that steel was very resiliant to heat gradients, unlike glass. Could you please explain the mechanism behind that problem?
As more heat causes brake fade/failure, what thing is failing? Brake pads? Boiling brake fluid?
It would be cool if you compared this data with a two piece style rotor
Can you make the same video featuring a vented rotor?
hey great video, would you think it's a good idea to pop out a bearing weather seal drying it out and doing this video again?
u will need thermal paste to help heat transfer from the wheel hub to the wheel. also it would work even better if u polished the area of contact.
hey thank you for your great content I feel I learn something new with every video you put out.
I have a question and if you have a video on it I would gladly watch it.
so I'm asking this because my dirt bike tends to over heat. the stator doest output enough to wire a fan at least from what I've been told. but I was wondering if I were to use a larger radiator how much would that help? and would I need to change the impeller for the water pump? or is there something ales I could do besides adding a fan. I understand if you get flooded with questions. thank you again for teaching so many of us