As an African, I think the average person living in continents like North America and Europe have such a good life, that they are outraged by the most trivial fact based things, it's comical. Maybe they should come here and struggle the way we do, it might shift their perspective of life a bit.
Justice Muigai Life has gotten way too easy in the Western world. Its certainly good that the quality of life has improved so much that these kind of things are the biggest concerns for people, but people always need to be struggling for something. It will be a rude awakening once these kids get into the real world and they have to work for shit.
All they'd read to do is open a book. It's common for people who have read some of The Gulag Archipelago to then say "holy shit, man. Things could be so so so much worse!" I think this perspective is easy to get if you know where to find it.
You have to remember while these kids think they are the majority they are in fact a very small minority of weirdos who don’t think logically. A very small minority
+ slayerOf DangerNoodle I agree with what you said, but mainly I wanted to thank you for slaying DangerNoodle. We all thought we were doomed. We tore our clothes. There was weeping and gnashing of teeth. We cried to the heavens "Who shall save us from DangerNoodle?!" and lo and behold! slayerof DangerNoodle didth appear!
Dr Shaym well, I'm one third in watching the video but at this point they didn't last very long before leaving. Man, I would have interrupted a little more than half way through. Lol. I'm 39. In my day, we talked at tables at the University hub mall and wondered if the world would be around tomorrow (911). ♥️🙁
to be honest I don't think they really care about being right. I think literally this is a group of sad and lonely people just looking for some group to hang with, and/or ideas to latch onto to vent their resentment at not feeling valuable or useful in the world. They enjoy the camaraderie of ganging up and harassing a group of supposed oppressors. They mostly care about trying to force people they perceive as socially "above" them into socially awkward positions, though any lie or coercion necessary.
True. Each time they resort to such disruptive, anti democratic methods they actually play directly into the hands of ppl they dont like. They show everybody who they truely are and what they do.
As someone who lived in Holland, and Germany. The devaluation of the term "nazi" is really quite tragic. There was a time that word had value, I promise. Especially in countries where it applied truly.
I know it been 4 years later but this needs to be said. I explained to my little brother why calling someone a "nazi" doesnt make sense (he didnt call someone it, I just explained why its wrong). I told him the reason they were called "nazis" is because of most likely where they originated there (they meaning hitlers group, not the people who live there now). I also mentioned how it didnt make sense to use it as an insult because it would be painting people from Nazi, Germany in a horrible light based off of past history. I'm sure many people who live there now probably feel bad because of the history but I'm from the United States and I'm a latino. From my point of view I think if people from Nazi feel bad, they shouldnt feel guilt over the actions that were taken in those times. Its like me feeling guilty over a crime my cousin committed. Either way I hope this helps those who see this and think negtively of those who may live there now.
@@herorricgamer1664"Nazi, Germany" 😅😅😅 Nazi is short for national (in German) it's not some toponym. Sorry for laughing at you, but it's just sooo funny.
/sarcasm We must correct this "injustice" (*) of Female-to-Male nurses ratio! Oh wait, no one gives a fuck about _Stupid Juvenile Whiner_ "issues" ... www.beckershospitalreview.com/human-capital-and-risk/gender-ratio-of-nurses-across-50-states.html (*) You keep using this word "injustice" -- I don't think it means what you think it means.
MrSnowman: Your delusion is in thinking that this is a "problem" in "need" of a "solution." The unique biological and social differences should be celebrated, not homogenized. Men and women, for the most part, like *different* things -- and that is OK. The only ones whining about this "injustice" are those clueless about the biological and social facts.
And builders: apparently they are committing suicide because of 'toxic' masculinity, so, like, they obviously need more women builders. www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018663999/builders-suicide-highest-number-in-nz
If everyone had microphones, that would negate the utility of having microphones in a place of discussion in the first place. The incipient Greek deliberation of 300 people trying to battle out ideas had the folly of merely which side could shout louder at the final analysis. A microphone is useful in completely negating the mechanism for such ochlocratic degredation.
+SirCouchus A single microphone that another person was holding and that she could only have access to by observing several restrictions... Peter Boghossian, on the other hand, had a personal working mic and the ability to interrupt/"dismiss" people in the audience... (also, he unilaterally decided that the interaction with the audience would be in the form of a Q&A, which is a restrictive dynamic that enables the answering party to set the terms of the whole interaction) Sure, that woman was exactly in the same position as Boghossian and the rest. This wasn't a conversation so much as a monologue with feeble attempts at dialogue which ended at Boghossian's whim in repeated occasions.. Peter Boghossian kept giving his personal political opinions to an audience that hadn't asked for them (the "trojan horse" of inclusion, the "crazy Marxist ideas"... way to have a real honest dialogue, Peter... Belittling antagonistic points of view is exactly how you get people to participate and agree on stuff...) Not to mention the guy could barely articulate his thoughts at some points (pretty much like certain individuals who participated in the Q&A...), he seemed pretty thick to me and it was pretty obvious he has no love for people who don't follow protocol...
I would love a calm and civil academic examination into these topics where there'd be panelists on many sides of the school of thought. Unfortunately that rarely happens because of Egotism and being too invested to allow dialogue and favoring a monologue instead.
Jenkkimie I mean he invited the whole gender studies department and not one of them showed up. Not one. They all figured it was a sexiest panel and they were already correct, and wouldn't disgrace themselves by talking with 'Nazi's'.
Where'd you get that information, Jenkkimie? His comment was ambiguous. He invited them, but as far as I know, PSU only has an adjunct head for gender studies at the moment. I could be wrong, but I highly doubt the WGSS department heads would be so fickle as to openly and outright decry an open talk like this.
@@infinitivez They absolutely are. I went to another of Boghosian's talks several months after this one. The various studies-studies department heads had actually _filed harassment charges against Peter_ for _inviting them_ to have exactly that conversation. A public invitation to a public discussion was considered a disciplinary offence by the university.
everyone has fully "entertained" all of Damore's regurgitated bourgeois propaganda and rejected it as rationally unsound. it has no right to be publicly broadcast because it's harmful and it's *incredibly* stupid, like Damore
@@jhyland87 did you even pass highschool math? didn't you get "correlation does not imply causation" hammered into you? god you dumb fucks point to numbers like they're totems instead of tools. bigots have the least scientific minds of all humans
I'm afraid that some hard reset in form of WW, great depression or civil war (considering multiculturalism) is inevitable. People take wealth and cozy western lifestyle for granted, only way they will wake up is when hard reality hits their very lives and when the military boots crush their heads, but then it will be too late for them and evolution will just replace them.
Bade Mantil unfortunately, Bade, I think that isn’t inevitable or necessary according to the times. Millennials like myself-and presumably yourself-find ourselves coming to the conclusion that a hard slap on the ass is what will teach this baby some manners, as our cynical, Darwinism-embracing worldviews cause the swelling of emotion within us that something is amiss. You are entitled to the knowledge that this is primarily the fault of the media. We are not truly a dying society as one might think, sir, but rather a flourishing one under the albeit shaking hand of those who are many and bright who have seen past the pre-apocalyptic wallpaper our rooms have been lined with. I urge you to consider me when I say the reasoning behind the fringe element babblers is a result mostly of that very dread which is required by your heart to make such a statement. Fear, oppressive and damning, is what controls them, and to see it in the flesh would only escalate their potency-and since they have media backing-their influence. Surely, if evil knocks at their door, they must be good. Good as dead, one such as yourself might say, to which they’d reply, yes, but only because you killed by saying so. They aren’t entirely wrong in saying that, either. With every volley of dreadful and gorey insights and expressions, they feel justified in their cause to inspire it. There is only one stopping point, really. When the people wise up to the calm and heavy-handed men and women of the world who knew all along where all this drama and blame would get them. This only happens at one of two points: when people are able to dispel their fears with adequate evidence, or when they’re too tired to continue doing anything else, which, you’re right, would come after the fire of war toasted their tear glands dry. But there is another, more probable way this will go. The media just wants everyone to be on a particular side when a deescalation effort is successful. Unfortunately, though, reason bids us otherwise.
It's the end results of bad parenting. These are the results of pampering and helicopter parenting and all that. They've been trained to get what they want by acting out and being ridiculous and throwing tantrums. That's what gets them recognition and attention and positive reinforcement. That's why they need jail and mace, followed by a new pattern of reinforcement of useful traits such as responsibility, discipline, etc. That will help them best improve themselves, their condition, those around them, and the world. Then we need better teachers and better parenting for the next generation.
Mary Vogt Seriously, there is not a single issue discussed here that could be considered controversial, at least from scholars in STEM or (hopefully) social sciences. I know Social Justice people have already begun their attack on websites, scholars/researchers, medical schools, medical journals, etc. that suggest that certain medical conditions are more prevalent among specific racial/ethnic groups-like diabetes and sickle cell disease among Blacks. I am beginning to suspect these Social Justice people are actually Neo Nazis in disguise because what they are proposing that the medical community do (to dissociate these diseases from Blacks and deny that there is a connection) will actually KILL Black people, and not save them.
@@JustMartha07 i mean, Heather Heying here is completely disregarding the existence of intersex people, and people who share sex characteristics of the opposite sex.
Look I think a bit of controversy is always good-but honestly the level of delusion is insanity, men are on average taller than women is an undeniable fact unless you take the anti realist philosophical position, which I doubt the colored hair people even know what that is.
I'm age 61 but when I was a young person I stubbornly denied the differences between men and women. I was so angry and outraged about having been born a female. As I matured I realized that my arguments were firmly planted in the realm of fantasy, and so with much foot stamping and gritting of teeth I admitted to the differences. I found a great freedom from the years of trying to defend a completely ridiculous position. These young ladies will eventually mature and move on from their infancy. They will definitely have to eat crow sooner or later and I hope they will be brave and dignified when they finally step out of childhood and into adulthood.
Russell S No therapy at all in fact. I observed others making the same ridiculous claims and I thought they looked and sounded like bitter 6 year olds so I began a quiet journey from silly to grown up adult. I struggled to get a few immutable facts arranged in my head and went from there. I also had to be able to allow defensive males to have their say and shock the hell out of them when I’d say ‘yup you’re right‘. When that happened we would settle down for a lovely conversation. When I was ready to engage in discourse I would lead with an agreement that males have stronger upper body strength, for example, and the rest would fall into place. I was always making the mistake of arguing for the exception and completely ignoring the reality. I would yell that there are women out there that are bigger and stronger than men and I remember my brother saying to me that ‘yes there are. Somewhere in the Steppes of Russia!’ lolol. That stuck in my head. There are good men in the world and they are not the enemy...that was another revelation. I could go on and on about this but I’ll be kind and stop here:)
thanks for your story Frances, that gives me a little more hope for the future of society when these protestors grow up a bit! I see a lot of people arguing for the exception rather than the rule (and I do try to point out exceptions too when people overly generalise without acknowledging that they're doing so)
@@sassy6292 why stop there... based on some of your anecdotal sharing, you have a lot more to add. Many PEOPLE could well benefit from your reflective journeying, involving inner growth, changed perception, and a realisation of ways the world can be understood, rather than trying to force the world to bow down to personal temperament.
Fascists and Nazis, that's what you are if you admit that there are clearly differences between men and women? I would say the the person who refuses to have a discussion and only wants to shut everyone down is the Fascist or Nazi.
mike hunt They probably do, but these nihilistic, left-extremist, anarchist 😭babies are there to protest free speech, not to listen. They have to be so god damn tired of feeling "offended" and bitter all the time.. So glad this movement of stupidity, just about, only exists in media for me. Still tho, im watching, and cheering, for Jordan Peterson. He uses my two favorite guns in his fights: Reason and logic! Go team Jordan!
I am forced to think that elementary and high schools are not teaching history the way it was taught when I was younger. Nobody who has studied World War II would throw the word "Nazi" around the way I see it done way too often by young people today. I've heard Donald Trump called a Nazi hundreds of times, for example, and no matter what you think of him or how much you disagree, he is not a Nazi. Nazis conduct dental experiments without anesthesia on groups they hate prior to mass executions of those groups. Nazis never allow the other side to be heard, they hate everyone who isn't like them and everyone who isn't a Nazi too. Nazis murder idiot students who have the audacity to get in front of a camera and a microphone and call others Nazis and say that they have no right to speak. And by the way, Nazis attempt to take over the world so they can tell everyone what to do or kill them if they don't do what they've been told. And Nazis abolish existing governments then impose their own horrific law. Gee, Nazis sound like Islamic fascists practicing Sharia, but don't tell these dopey students that.
George Bush (the son) was also called a Nazi. Back when he was president people would say corporations were Fascist.... It's nuts. Funny though, the day after Obama became president, corporations were suddenly no longer Fascist. It was like magic.
SeleckPlays did you learn that word playing minecraft , or did you have a wider world view . And yes free speech means listening to facism but having the option not to listen
Unless, of course, that idea is that white men have created a framework by which they deliberately exclude non white men from economic and political opportunities.
Ikr?!! I couldn't believe they just let her go, I'm betting the system she destroyed was worth some big bucks. If they catch her slashing tires and smashing windows, does she get a pass on that too, just because she's "protesting"? Useless Portland cops.
Did you get a chance to hear them both on Joe Rogans podcast? She excels at explaining the complicated in an easy to understand manner. No wonder she was the top professor at her institution.
MrJohnny56789 what are you referencing? I just watched them on Joe Rogan about metoo and I thought they were perfectly reasonable. ua-cam.com/video/4YFe0dFzNfU/v-deo.html
Holy shit that girl at 1:02:35 is absolutely insufferable. How could anyone befriend someone so willing to show such disrespect and contempt to friendly individuals willing to answer their questions? Unbelievable.
Truly Heather Heying is great. Smart, intellectual, articulate, kind, and obviously a master teacher. She is a huge loss to the classroom but a huge gain to the public intellectual stage. Thank you for a very interesting panel.
I love the fact that they walked out after she said men on average are taller... If you find that offensive I dont really know how you begin to have a conversation.
Jezus, that last woman got triggered by the featured speakers having microphones and a place on the stage. There's nothing they cannot take offence at.
What if they had been in an amphitheater where the speakers were staged below the audience? I wonder how she’d twist that to be some sort of hierarchical staging that places the audience “beneath” the invited panelists?
Thank you crazy leftists for once again bringing an amazing event to my attention which I otherwise would have never known about. You guys are doing a great job promoting and advertising these awesome discussions :)
Yes, Nazis and leftists have a lot in common. They don't know what they are talking about when they are calling white male conservatives "Nazis". Leftists are idiots.
The last lady sounds insane. Stages are typically raised so that everyone in the audience can see who is speaking or performing. There are theaters created in such a way so that the stage is set below the audience or the audience is raised above the performers but those are typically extremely large and costly to build. Not to mention, typically the seats that are the highest above and thus furthest away from the speakers are usually considered the absolute worst seats in the house. Not every stage can be made so that the audience is above the people speaking. It has nothing to do with microaggressions or dominance or whatever. It has to do with cost, availability, and effectiveness. I just do not understand the mindset that everything, even the mundane, is done so to project some form of power dynamic. It is a mindset that would surely make you anxious and paranoid about the entire world. How can anyone be happy about their lives if all they see in everything, even inanimate objects, is some insane view that it is an opposition to their existence? Those post modernist philosophers really had a very bleak view of this world. I can understand the cynicism but it really has gone too far now.
I think this comes from the traditional layout for courthouses, churches, etc., to be constructed so that the elite in power don't have to watch their backs. Having a circle with such a large audience is obviously impractical. I think it's a strawman attack.
1:19:50 - "Atari was hiring more women thirty years ago than Google is today. Why is that?" There, I just rephrased the question to cut it down from three minutes to five seconds.
smokydave Its a term that Feminsits use to judge & manipulate others - and the Stand hard is always unequal, they don't apply the same standard to themselves.
The dude probably just wants to go back to his room and have a beer and do some coding and marvel at what unique app he has created. And instead, he is just dying of awkwardness of the whole situation.
I highly recommend anyone who is likely to watch this whole video to do so from beginning to end without jumping around. The question and answer session is awesome and well worth your time.
Those four panelists fill me with hope for the future. One of the best youtube video's I've seen in a while. A hat-tip to Portland State for bringing us this.
The fact that it's 2018 and we are still having conversations about whether men and woman are different, should tell you something about the American education system...
No different than in the left-minded European countries, especially Germany during the last three-four decades - the virus of brain eating postmodernism has been spreading for a long time and has infected many and much of the Western Worlds -
What's an adult? Have you watched a broadcast of members of parliament (or whatever the equivalent is on your country)? Behaviour like that would get you kicked out of a grade 7 classroom, yet they're highly paid people who govern us all. I have no idea what an adult is supposed to act like.
Because they've been mollycoddled all their lives. Raised to think they're victims when in fact they've been given a conceptual special badge that allows them to be right in all arguments because of who they are. They have never had to learn how to actually engage in or debate anything. They are spoiled children, and they have absolutely no realization of this fact.
Keep fighting the good fight, Brett, Heather and James. The rational and reasonable people of this country are rooting for you. PS: Helen seemed very reasonable, too. Great panel.
as the trigglypuffs make their exit and declare anyone who disagrees with them nazis...soon the real world is gonna slap them in the face, reality will hit like a ton bricks and smash there naive little world
The problem is that they will always play the victim card. They will take no responsibility for their lack of success in the real world, only that they were oppressed. It's the entire problem, the only way to avoid this ideology growing is literally to make sure they find some type of success. If this shit happened in my tribe back in the day they'd find themselves "lost" in the woods, with only themselves to rely on. They'd change their tune real quick to survive on their own or nature would consume them and recycle their biology for something more useful.
LOL, that question: why are you all up there and we're all down here and don't have a microphone? because the people are there to listen to the designated speakers not the people in the audience. Why is that hard to understand???
Then the whiners are too stupid to formulate a direct question, but think they merit the same right to be on a stage and heard, without doing the years of work that got those people on the stage.
Hey middle aged perma-student lady: if you want to be on the dais with the microphone, organize your own talk and see who shows up. What's so hard about that?
The last woman is an example of the problem with society. She probably sat there the entire night stewing over the fact that they were sitting higher than her and not hearing ANY of the discussions. She doesn't want to have a real conversation she wants to push her ideas. Sad.
I am so glad that I watched this today. I saw James this morning on an interview program and was interested to hear more about the science behind his paper. I have not been disappointed in what I have heard from four educated and intelligent people. Instead of walking out those people should of hung around and listened, they might have learned something. Thank you for having me here today, I almost passed it up because of the place it was coming from, I guess I needed to learn something also.
Their fragility is really at the heart of their rage and mob mentality. They hide behind virtue and say they are against fascist power structures, but what they mean is that they hate how incapable they are to exercise power in their lives so they have to blame it on being victims instead of taking responsibility for themselves. They aren't really railing against fascism, they are mad they aren't the ones with the power to make others bend to their wills.
Gripping. Thanks to all the panel and PSU. This conversation helps. It performs balancing, sharpens mind and contributes valuable and philanthropic equity to civilized society (east and west) as a whole.
Uneducated liberal: “My friends and I have been ignored by the university and they won’t let us have a voice!” Professor at university “that is not okay and you should have a voice and I will help you wherever I can.” “.......” liberal’s friend: “see, you interrupted her!”
You go to university to learn, not to have a voice. You know very little to voice an opinion about which they show quite clearly in this video. That's why there are professors who are professionals at universities to teach students who listen to them.
On the Sweden question. I can comment since I've lived here for quite some time now, but I'm not natively Swedish so I think I have an outsiders viewpoint on it. One of the first things I noticed that really surprised me (positively) was that there were quite a few women doing the garbage collection, maintenance, taxi drivers, bus drivers, working in heavy machinery factories etc. I know that there are no pay differences in these areas based on gender. It's purely a job that pays a certain amount. So, from that point of view I really like the feeling here. Another factor which might not sit well with our US readers is the notorious taxation system in Sweden. What this does is pretty much levels the economic playing field for many job types to such an extent that for a lot of cases it doesn't matter what job you do, you'll end up with a relatively similar wage as a large proportion of society. There are exceptions: doctors, dentists, business owners etc. are always going to make more money, but they are objectively difficult jobs to get into based on intelligence or business savvy. That said, I see loads of women in all those areas also. But back to the "normal" jobs, since that covers the vast majority of people. The effect of the taxation system is that it reduces envy and general discontent among people. The government (via taxes) provides a lot of ground-level services (and the jobs to support those services) to everyone, regardless of income, that make life possible to live without worrying too much about making ends meet. That support structure cost money and the taxes go to help with that. I think that the possibilities given to people here allow them to function effectively and happily. In my humble opinion, it's a very good system. Another interesting thing, almost unique to Sweden, is the time given to new parents (both men and women). There's also a societal expectation that men take parental leave when they have a kid. It's socially unacceptable here not to do that. p.s. I work in tech, so last thing: I see very few women in tech. I mean coding here, not project managers etc. I see equal capability, but in todays tech space, you need to put in hours and hours of extra time just to keep up with the changing landscape to be a good coder. Guys tend to not mind wasting their personal time catching up, most women won't do that. I have no data to back that up except direct experience. I don't log it =) I'm not Google.
@@MsDidi38 Women aren't good at tech at the same rate that men are good at tech, but that probably has nothing to do with height. If there is a connection or correlation, it's deeply embedded and incredibly ancient.
@@MsDidi38. We had a neuropsychology conference in Brazil with a french professor and it was really interesting. There are some studies available about babies preferences. They are not culturally aware, but already gravitate toward some specific choices for each gender.
Wow what a stark contrast between the profound brilliance of the panelists and utter stupidity of some of these students. Heather Meyer completely dominated in this panel, she just cut straight to chase, no bullshit no holding back. Peter Boghossion was exceptional as well, especially on how he managed to cope with the sheer degeneracy and grotesque ignorance in the Q&A. All around excellent panel.
You've got to love 'millenialsplaining' where an 18 year old with no life experience tells adults how the world works using made up social studies words and up-speaks at the end of every sentence.
I know. And I can't say I am innocent of this either because I used to be exactly like that years ago. My fortune was to live with parents who taught me good manners and a father who is a Biologist so this information has always been there when I needed. No need to figure out it on my own when I got encyclopedia as my father. :D
Women and Men ARE different, biologically, and psychologically.... but that is a good thing, for we are all equal in importance, it is just that our roles according to Nature are different for a reason, they complement each other... one is not more important than the other. We are the Yin and Yang of Nature. And no, there there is no more intelligent individuals in one gender or the other... I have ran into pretty stupid people in BOTH genders!
I agree except that males are on the average more intelligent than females when it comes to mathematics, science and yes, even history in many cases. That definitely is not written in stone but ..on average it is true. As a female I can am secure enough in myself that I can admit that I love and appreciate that the genders are different in many ways.
Sandy Miller That's BS. On average men and women basically the same level of intelligence. Men have more geniuses, as well as more imbeciles. Women are more even.
But that's the WRONG kind of diversity because women don't come out on top in every way, so it's misogynistic. They want the RIGHT kind of diversity that favors women. Because -women are better- women are underrepresented. Just look at the approaching 2:1 women to men ratio on college campuses.
I studied medicine so I've got a fairly good understanding of humans lol Women and men obviously have xternal differences such as fat deposit location and muscle length, density, and strength on top of the obvious differences like presence of body hair, rate of hair growth, and genitalia. In terms of the brain which is what leads to intelligence well first off, it depends on their genetics and upbringing. You can have the potential to be smart but have a bad upbringing and constantly make bad choices and have a good upbringing with what we would look at clinically as brain which isn't optimal or things may come naturally to otherwise unsound brains ex: savants. Brain chemistry? Women tend to have more pathways which cross between sections and men tend to have then more isolated. In short, women are better at multi tasking and men are better at focus biologically. We see this in stereotypes and they really do come from are re place of fact. Women tend to think about things all at once "how do I look, what's for dinner, is this good for me, why am I in traffic so long, etc". Whereas men go through a process when thinking more often such as "what's for dinner, oh maybe what I saw on that show, I should watch that show again, do I look as good as as jerry Seinfeld? " Of course not every man or woman is like this as asnr there's mixes but honestly guys, this is how brains often work on a general level. Do some self review. You might see yourself doing it exactly as I showed within the next hour!
The real question is, why would someone who identifies neither as a man nor a woman be offended about differences between men and women? Why even attend the event to begin with? I mean, aren't binaries for us boring Nazi-fascist-normies now? By the way, the term Nazi is cultural appropriation!!
It may be worth noting that (correct me if I'm wrong) that the 36% women at Atari statistic was across all departments including art dept and marketing, staff services etc. My recollection is that Atari had a couple of female programmers (still trailblazing for the time) but not 36% of programmers were female, which may change the context of the correlation being made in that particular question.
Just as an older person - in the 1980s and even early 90s, men saw touching a keybard as demeaning. A keyboard was a typist tool - seen as female. I suspect atari had a lot more keyboarding done by women while the provrammers wrote the program by hand - just my anecdotal remembrance of male and female behaviour
It's perfectly acceptable to be angry, but not all actions taken in anger are good and appropriate. Learn to be angry while still managing to control yourself at a level expected of every adult.
The appropriate and scholarly response by the protesters would have been to watch the talk then bring up their counterpoints in the Q&A. Of course, that would require them to have a coherent, logical argument based on facts and data.
For me that I'm watching this from Italy, a country that have been oppresed by a fascist regime, all that is happening in America (but also in many West Democracy), has similarity with fascism. Feminism and gender ideology sound like fascism and fascism propaganda. I really hope our countries will find the strenght to kick out feminism and sessist ideology from our world. It's our battle, it's up to us to fight for the sake of our children. But I'm happy, now I see the begin of a fight, it will be long, hard, like all the fights for freedom. Thank you for share this precious and illuminating document. Sorry for my english
This is why the students are so bold about being stupid. If i walk in to my school/uni and start breaking equipment i'll be in trouble immediately. These guys dont even bother running away because they can sit there with a smug face without any consequences.
What a great panel. Both those interested in honest dialogue and the ideological dogmatists speak very clearly and crisply for themselves. Thank you for putting this on. I have subscribed and look forward to more of your presentations.
I just found out today that this panel talk happened.... Just like the protests in Toronto against Jordan B Peterson, this signifies a huge shift in Western culture. This should be in all history books in 50 years time.
Watch the very first episode of Portlandia again - the part where the man went to Portland and came back with fantastical stories of a strange place with strange people. The best part of the "TV joke" is that it is based on reality - funniest jokes are true.
I'm Transgender immigrant, and I'm glad to see some sanity being finally restored. For the longest time I have felt alone on this, 99% of the people I know are against freedom of speech, against discussion. It makes me happy to see some sanity finally being restored, I hope this conversations continue, I hope for panels like this to be promoted, I hope for youtube to start promoting this kind of contend instead of the regressive divisive agenda that has been pushed thus far. I'm Transgender, I'm Immigrant, I'm a gamer, I'm Mexican, and I'm tired of the regressive left. Edit: I don't belong to the LGBT because I refuse to be part of the hivemind, the moment I dared to have ideas of my own I was accused of being divisive to the community, as if I had signed some kind of hivemind agreement.
We need to hear more voices like yourself who can think for themselves and don't follow like sheep. I bet there are more people who think like you but they get drowned out by the disrupters in this video.
Kimera they're really just about building an army of useful idiots to bring about their 'revolution'. It took me many many years of working with them to fully realize it, but I'm thoroughly convinced now. None of them like hearing that because who wants to admit they're a useful idiot, but it's true. They switch positions at the drop of a hat and many of their positions are just antics to disrupt, not even real positions. That's because they don't even know what the real positions are half the time, they're just needed as a little distractionary force for this that or another antic. This is why there are so many former lefties who are so pissed at them when they leave. Once they realize the lies they've been being fed they get disillusioned, frustrated, disgusted, and pissed off. I personally got quite pissed at them here in Oregon when I realized the way they were going about enacting marine reserves. I was all about them, and I think I still am, but their tactics were despicable. I participated in and was privy to the whole narrative building campaign that they built to discredit all of the low income fishing communities they were destroying up and down the coast. They essentially held a gun to those communities head, saying "we are going to build these reserves, no matter how they impact your communities, but if you play along we will let you have a say in where they are". They needed some of them to play along so they could say it was a "coalition", and had "community support", but nothing was further from the truth. They recruited a bunch of idealistic youths like myself who wanted to help the world and got us to do things like go to the capitol with their paid lobby groups to puff up our numbers, and visit senators for the same reason. We didn't really need to do anything but sit there, and hearing the testimonies of the poor fishermen who'd had to take a day off work to drive from all the way on the coast to dink around the senate all day, talk about how badly they were hurting, how it was really Chinese fishermen off the coast taking all the fish (they do that, I've seen them while sailing, and there's a video on here showing some of them being fired on by I think it was the Chilean navy for the same thing), and how they weren't willing participants or 'community support' or coalition members at all. They all made it quite clear they were being dragged by their noses to participate just so they could have any say at all. It reminded me of the depictions of Native American treaties. I then asked the lobbyist who was leading our group, and she confirmed that they were doing exactly what was being described, because they needed to, to build the image and narrative. "Nobody should see how sausage or politics are made" is the line. The left are not the idealistic do-gooders they pretend to do, and if you think you're working for some noble leftist cause, you probably aren't. There is another reason for it, and you are a useful idiot tool.
Chakib Tsouli - Apparently they are so superior in their intellect and moral superiority, and are on such a higher level socially, that they can’t waste their brain space on factual based discussions...
I'm a 68 yr young transwoman , transitioning 5 yrs ago after moving to a wonderful BC small interior logging community, I'm still very busy doing construction work which has been my primary vocation. I've had great acceptence coming out and living full time female, now post op. I.ve always loved the very binary nature of nature and now this woke postmodernist ideology I see as a threat to all honest transwoman as well as many others . Thanks to this panel and there adherence to the truth against those that would deny it. I've still got lots to build including my own femininity.
Evil Bastard You are obviously a troll who doesn’t get out much because you clearly haven’t met many left leaning liberals. Those protesters were as much a representation of the left as the neo-Nazi incels represents the right.
My answer to the question at 1:26:00: There is nothing wrong with anyone being personally emotionally triggered by anything, as long as they don't involve others in it. The unloving behaviour is when people go "Im feeling angry, upset, etc - so that gives me the right to project it onto others, try to control or manipulate them or treat them badly. THAT is what is unloving, uncivilized & interferes with sincere & genuine discourse to seek truths or create solutions.
Yes. Although, the people, who stood up at the beginning were not simply angry. They basically came with the intention to sabotage the whole discussion from the very beginning, and *that* is a very different story. The original answer in the video was mostly about that. Most angry people don't damage sound systems on their way out.
Speaking of stereotypes: The ... persons at 20:08 and 20:30 achieved to bulls-eyes so many of them. - asymmetric hair-cut dyed in attention-granting color? ... Check. - obese and/or otherwise unattractive? ... Check. - loud and annoying, putting themselves above the etiquette of communication? ... Check. - superiour smirk? ... Check. - withdrawing from factual dispute? ... Check. - resorting to physical aggression when asked to order? ... Check.
As an African, I think the average person living in continents like North America and Europe have such a good life, that they are outraged by the most trivial fact based things, it's comical. Maybe they should come here and struggle the way we do, it might shift their perspective of life a bit.
Justice Muigai Life has gotten way too easy in the Western world. Its certainly good that the quality of life has improved so much that these kind of things are the biggest concerns for people, but people always need to be struggling for something. It will be a rude awakening once these kids get into the real world and they have to work for shit.
All they'd read to do is open a book. It's common for people who have read some of The Gulag Archipelago to then say "holy shit, man. Things could be so so so much worse!"
I think this perspective is easy to get if you know where to find it.
You have to remember while these kids think they are the majority they are in fact a very small minority of weirdos who don’t think logically. A very small minority
+
slayerOf DangerNoodle
I agree with what you said, but mainly I wanted to thank you for slaying DangerNoodle.
We all thought we were doomed. We tore our clothes. There was weeping and gnashing of teeth. We cried to the heavens "Who shall save us from DangerNoodle?!" and lo and behold! slayerof DangerNoodle didth appear!
Justice Muigai these are spoiled college kids. Plenty of people in NA have real problems and don't waste their time with this shit
Every time you disrupt a conference like this, all you do is prove them right about you.
Dr Shaym well, I'm one third in watching the video but at this point they didn't last very long before leaving. Man, I would have interrupted a little more than half way through. Lol. I'm 39. In my day, we talked at tables at the University hub mall and wondered if the world would be around tomorrow (911). ♥️🙁
Which they would realize if they ever bothered to actually listen to a single thing people like Bret and Damore say.
to be honest I don't think they really care about being right. I think literally this is a group of sad and lonely people just looking for some group to hang with, and/or ideas to latch onto to vent their resentment at not feeling valuable or useful in the world. They enjoy the camaraderie of ganging up and harassing a group of supposed oppressors. They mostly care about trying to force people they perceive as socially "above" them into socially awkward positions, though any lie or coercion necessary.
Can someone give me timestamps to all the disruptions?
True. Each time they resort to such disruptive, anti democratic methods they actually play directly into the hands of ppl they dont like. They show everybody who they truely are and what they do.
As someone who lived in Holland, and Germany. The devaluation of the term "nazi" is really quite tragic. There was a time that word had value, I promise. Especially in countries where it applied truly.
Right? I can’t believe that guy called him that. What about his memo even mentioned race lmao
I know it been 4 years later but this needs to be said. I explained to my little brother why calling someone a "nazi" doesnt make sense (he didnt call someone it, I just explained why its wrong). I told him the reason they were called "nazis" is because of most likely where they originated there (they meaning hitlers group, not the people who live there now). I also mentioned how it didnt make sense to use it as an insult because it would be painting people from Nazi, Germany in a horrible light based off of past history. I'm sure many people who live there now probably feel bad because of the history but I'm from the United States and I'm a latino. From my point of view I think if people from Nazi feel bad, they shouldnt feel guilt over the actions that were taken in those times. Its like me feeling guilty over a crime my cousin committed. Either way I hope this helps those who see this and think negtively of those who may live there now.
@@herorricgamer1664 "Nazi" isn't a place in Germany. "Nazi Germany" is what Germany was called from 1933 to 1945.
Yeah when i hear that word i have a strong emotional reaction of alarm, and then realize theyre using it randomly, its very upsetting
@@herorricgamer1664"Nazi, Germany" 😅😅😅
Nazi is short for national (in German) it's not some toponym. Sorry for laughing at you, but it's just sooo funny.
Why are women not 50% of plumbers. We need to correct this terrible injustice.
/sarcasm We must correct this "injustice" (*) of Female-to-Male nurses ratio! Oh wait, no one gives a fuck about _Stupid Juvenile Whiner_ "issues" ...
www.beckershospitalreview.com/human-capital-and-risk/gender-ratio-of-nurses-across-50-states.html
(*) You keep using this word "injustice" -- I don't think it means what you think it means.
MrSnowman: Your delusion is in thinking that this is a "problem" in "need" of a "solution."
The unique biological and social differences should be celebrated, not homogenized.
Men and women, for the most part, like *different* things -- and that is OK.
The only ones whining about this "injustice" are those clueless about the biological and social facts.
The quotation marks are air quotes.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_quotes
No thank you, I’d rather be a housekeeper.
And builders: apparently they are committing suicide because of 'toxic' masculinity, so, like, they obviously need more women builders. www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018663999/builders-suicide-highest-number-in-nz
"You guys have microphones and we don't", she says into a microphone
SirCouchus actually that's a megaphone but I getchu
If everyone had microphones, that would negate the utility of having microphones in a place of discussion in the first place. The incipient Greek deliberation of 300 people trying to battle out ideas had the folly of merely which side could shout louder at the final analysis. A microphone is useful in completely negating the mechanism for such ochlocratic degredation.
that dummy was insufferable
+SirCouchus
A single microphone that another person was holding and that she could only have access to by observing several restrictions... Peter Boghossian, on the other hand, had a personal working mic and the ability to interrupt/"dismiss" people in the audience... (also, he unilaterally decided that the interaction with the audience would be in the form of a Q&A, which is a restrictive dynamic that enables the answering party to set the terms of the whole interaction)
Sure, that woman was exactly in the same position as Boghossian and the rest.
This wasn't a conversation so much as a monologue with feeble attempts at dialogue which ended at Boghossian's whim in repeated occasions..
Peter Boghossian kept giving his personal political opinions to an audience that hadn't asked for them (the "trojan horse" of inclusion, the "crazy Marxist ideas"... way to have a real honest dialogue, Peter... Belittling antagonistic points of view is exactly how you get people to participate and agree on stuff...)
Not to mention the guy could barely articulate his thoughts at some points (pretty much like certain individuals who participated in the Q&A...), he seemed pretty thick to me and it was pretty obvious he has no love for people who don't follow protocol...
How dare you people who have studied these subjects and rose the ranks based on a meritocracy display that authority!
"You aren't letting us speak!"
"Okay, do you have a question?"
"..."
😂😂😂
I would love a calm and civil academic examination into these topics where there'd be panelists on many sides of the school of thought. Unfortunately that rarely happens because of Egotism and being too invested to allow dialogue and favoring a monologue instead.
Jenkkimie I mean he invited the whole gender studies department and not one of them showed up. Not one. They all figured it was a sexiest panel and they were already correct, and wouldn't disgrace themselves by talking with 'Nazi's'.
Where'd you get that information, Jenkkimie? His comment was ambiguous. He invited them, but as far as I know, PSU only has an adjunct head for gender studies at the moment. I could be wrong, but I highly doubt the WGSS department heads would be so fickle as to openly and outright decry an open talk like this.
@@infinitivez They absolutely are. I went to another of Boghosian's talks several months after this one. The various studies-studies department heads had actually _filed harassment charges against Peter_ for _inviting them_ to have exactly that conversation.
A public invitation to a public discussion was considered a disciplinary offence by the university.
It's been 4 years and we still need talks like these.
👏👏👏 Yes we need another one ASAP!
More than ever!
_"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."_ - One of my favorite quotes
everyone has fully "entertained" all of Damore's regurgitated bourgeois propaganda and rejected it as rationally unsound. it has no right to be publicly broadcast because it's harmful and it's *incredibly* stupid, like Damore
@@gloverelaxis Everyone?.. Or everyone in your echo chamber?
@@jhyland87 everyone that's either a decent person or of average or greater intelligence
@@gloverelaxis and that likes to disregard science and statistics. I agree
@@jhyland87 did you even pass highschool math? didn't you get "correlation does not imply causation" hammered into you? god you dumb fucks point to numbers like they're totems instead of tools. bigots have the least scientific minds of all humans
First world kids are bored.
They are boring.
I'm afraid that some hard reset in form of WW, great depression or civil war (considering multiculturalism) is inevitable. People take wealth and cozy western lifestyle for granted, only way they will wake up is when hard reality hits their very lives and when the military boots crush their heads, but then it will be too late for them and evolution will just replace them.
i would like them to fight real problems like the rest of the world if there are so inclusive
Bade Mantil unfortunately, Bade, I think that isn’t inevitable or necessary according to the times. Millennials like myself-and presumably yourself-find ourselves coming to the conclusion that a hard slap on the ass is what will teach this baby some manners, as our cynical, Darwinism-embracing worldviews cause the swelling of emotion within us that something is amiss. You are entitled to the knowledge that this is primarily the fault of the media. We are not truly a dying society as one might think, sir, but rather a flourishing one under the albeit shaking hand of those who are many and bright who have seen past the pre-apocalyptic wallpaper our rooms have been lined with. I urge you to consider me when I say the reasoning behind the fringe element babblers is a result mostly of that very dread which is required by your heart to make such a statement. Fear, oppressive and damning, is what controls them, and to see it in the flesh would only escalate their potency-and since they have media backing-their influence. Surely, if evil knocks at their door, they must be good. Good as dead, one such as yourself might say, to which they’d reply, yes, but only because you killed by saying so. They aren’t entirely wrong in saying that, either. With every volley of dreadful and gorey insights and expressions, they feel justified in their cause to inspire it. There is only one stopping point, really. When the people wise up to the calm and heavy-handed men and women of the world who knew all along where all this drama and blame would get them. This only happens at one of two points: when people are able to dispel their fears with adequate evidence, or when they’re too tired to continue doing anything else, which, you’re right, would come after the fire of war toasted their tear glands dry. But there is another, more probable way this will go. The media just wants everyone to be on a particular side when a deescalation effort is successful. Unfortunately, though, reason bids us otherwise.
It's the end results of bad parenting. These are the results of pampering and helicopter parenting and all that. They've been trained to get what they want by acting out and being ridiculous and throwing tantrums. That's what gets them recognition and attention and positive reinforcement.
That's why they need jail and mace, followed by a new pattern of reinforcement of useful traits such as responsibility, discipline, etc. That will help them best improve themselves, their condition, those around them, and the world.
Then we need better teachers and better parenting for the next generation.
I can't believe I live in a time when this panel's discussion is controversial in any way.
Well you are probably under 2 standard deviation fron average. Its ok honey its not your fault you are dumb. Its just your gender
We live in times where facts and reality became controversial... That's ridiculous
Mary Vogt Seriously, there is not a single issue discussed here that could be considered controversial, at least from scholars in STEM or (hopefully) social sciences. I know Social Justice people have already begun their attack on websites, scholars/researchers, medical schools, medical journals, etc. that suggest that certain medical conditions are more prevalent among specific racial/ethnic groups-like diabetes and sickle cell disease among Blacks. I am beginning to suspect these Social Justice people are actually Neo Nazis in disguise because what they are proposing that the medical community do (to dissociate these diseases from Blacks and deny that there is a connection) will actually KILL Black people, and not save them.
@@JustMartha07 i mean, Heather Heying here is completely disregarding the existence of intersex people, and people who share sex characteristics of the opposite sex.
Look I think a bit of controversy is always good-but honestly the level of delusion is insanity, men are on average taller than women is an undeniable fact unless you take the anti realist philosophical position, which I doubt the colored hair people even know what that is.
I'm age 61 but when I was a young person I stubbornly denied the differences between men and women. I was so angry and outraged about having been born a female. As I matured I realized that my arguments were firmly planted in the realm of fantasy, and so with much foot stamping and gritting of teeth I admitted to the differences. I found a great freedom from the years of trying to defend a completely ridiculous position. These young ladies will eventually mature and move on from their infancy. They will definitely have to eat crow sooner or later and I hope they will be brave and dignified when they finally step out of childhood and into adulthood.
"I was so angry and outraged about having been born a female." How much therapy did it require to admit that to yourself? You are not the only one.
Russell S No therapy at all in fact. I observed others making the same ridiculous claims and I thought they looked and sounded like bitter 6 year olds so I began a quiet journey from silly to grown up adult. I struggled to get a few immutable facts arranged in my head and went from there. I also had to be able to allow defensive males to have their say and shock the hell out of them when I’d say ‘yup you’re right‘. When that happened we would settle down for a lovely conversation. When I was ready to engage in discourse I would lead with an agreement that males have stronger upper body strength, for example, and the rest would fall into place. I was always making the mistake of arguing for the exception and completely ignoring the reality. I would yell that there are women out there that are bigger and stronger than men and I remember my brother saying to me that ‘yes there are. Somewhere in the Steppes of Russia!’ lolol. That stuck in my head. There are good men in the world and they are not the enemy...that was another revelation. I could go on and on about this but I’ll be kind and stop here:)
thanks for your story Frances, that gives me a little more hope for the future of society when these protestors grow up a bit! I see a lot of people arguing for the exception rather than the rule (and I do try to point out exceptions too when people overly generalise without acknowledging that they're doing so)
Russell S a long time
@@sassy6292 why stop there... based on some of your anecdotal sharing, you have a lot more to add. Many PEOPLE could well benefit from your reflective journeying, involving inner growth, changed perception, and a realisation of ways the world can be understood, rather than trying to force the world to bow down to personal temperament.
I have a tiny amount of admiration for anyone who wears a pirate hat to a debate.
It's a tricorn, not exclusively a "pirate hat", but I get the reference.
Fascists and Nazis, that's what you are if you admit that there are clearly differences between men and women? I would say the the person who refuses to have a discussion and only wants to shut everyone down is the Fascist or Nazi.
They don't get it. These colleges don't teach what the words fascism am's nazi actually mean.
mike hunt They probably do, but these nihilistic, left-extremist, anarchist 😭babies are there to protest free speech, not to listen. They have to be so god damn tired of feeling "offended" and bitter all the time.. So glad this movement of stupidity, just about, only exists in media for me. Still tho, im watching, and cheering, for Jordan Peterson. He uses my two favorite guns in his fights: Reason and logic! Go team Jordan!
I am forced to think that elementary and high schools are not teaching history the way it was taught when I was younger. Nobody who has studied World War II would throw the word "Nazi" around the way I see it done way too often by young people today. I've heard Donald Trump called a Nazi hundreds of times, for example, and no matter what you think of him or how much you disagree, he is not a Nazi. Nazis conduct dental experiments without anesthesia on groups they hate prior to mass executions of those groups. Nazis never allow the other side to be heard, they hate everyone who isn't like them and everyone who isn't a Nazi too. Nazis murder idiot students who have the audacity to get in front of a camera and a microphone and call others Nazis and say that they have no right to speak. And by the way, Nazis attempt to take over the world so they can tell everyone what to do or kill them if they don't do what they've been told. And Nazis abolish existing governments then impose their own horrific law. Gee, Nazis sound like Islamic fascists practicing Sharia, but don't tell these dopey students that.
They were referring to themselves.
George Bush (the son) was also called a Nazi. Back when he was president people would say corporations were Fascist.... It's nuts. Funny though, the day after Obama became president, corporations were suddenly no longer Fascist. It was like magic.
Free speech means having to deal with ideas that you don’t like
Not if you deem the ideas to be promoting fascism
SeleckPlays did you learn that word playing minecraft , or did you have a wider world view . And yes free speech means listening to facism but having the option not to listen
Unless, of course, that idea is that white men have created a framework by which they deliberately exclude non white men from economic and political opportunities.
Even if they happen to be truth XD
@@matthewharris8819 You don't even know what you're talking about.
Why was the young woman at 20:00 who destroyed the sound system not arrested and charged with vandalism?
Because her parents pay tuition.
because it was staged/scripted
Scripted? It was a planned walkout. That doesn't mean that they can just destroy things.
Ikr?!! I couldn't believe they just let her go, I'm betting the system she destroyed was worth some big bucks. If they catch her slashing tires and smashing windows, does she get a pass on that too, just because she's "protesting"? Useless Portland cops.
Hopefully her parents got the bill. Whoa! My babies will never be too old for me to whoop that ass.
Love Bret but I'm glad to see Heather get her time. She killed it. I hope to hear more from her!
Jesse Snyder she’s the shit!
Did you get a chance to hear them both on Joe Rogans podcast? She excels at explaining the complicated in an easy to understand manner. No wonder she was the top professor at her institution.
She's a rockstar.
She was awesome.
MrJohnny56789 what are you referencing? I just watched them on Joe Rogan about metoo and I thought they were perfectly reasonable. ua-cam.com/video/4YFe0dFzNfU/v-deo.html
Holy shit that girl at 1:02:35 is absolutely insufferable. How could anyone befriend someone so willing to show such disrespect and contempt to friendly individuals willing to answer their questions? Unbelievable.
Gillian Vann Something tells me that even if she watched it, she'd just pat herself on the back for "fighting back against the fascists."
How much of a narcissist do you have to be, to act like that girl. Pure entitlement at its worst.
She probably has no real friends. But nazis are known for disrespect and contempt. But the way they dont think they are behaving as classic nazis.
Her and her comrads look high as fuck!!!
I was reading the comments earlier and wasn't sure what to expect.
BUT DAM, You were not kidding, What an insufferable human being!
Truly Heather Heying is great. Smart, intellectual, articulate, kind, and obviously a master teacher. She is a huge loss to the classroom but a huge gain to the public intellectual stage. Thank you for a very interesting panel.
I agree. Evergreen's loss is our gain.
I love the fact that they walked out after she said men on average are taller... If you find that offensive I dont really know how you begin to have a conversation.
benry007 Height is misogynistic and racist, apparently...
Jezus, that last woman got triggered by the featured speakers having microphones and a place on the stage.
There's nothing they cannot take offence at.
#truestory
What if they had been in an amphitheater where the speakers were staged below the audience? I wonder how she’d twist that to be some sort of hierarchical staging that places the audience “beneath” the invited panelists?
offense*
Raquel G. By stating something about them being the focus of attention and the microphone thing/directional acoustics again.
Can you imagine if everyone in that room had a microphone? There wouldn't have been any discussion, that's for sure.
Thank you crazy leftists for once again bringing an amazing event to my attention which I otherwise would have never known about. You guys are doing a great job promoting and advertising these awesome discussions :)
Myriah Williams agreed!
why are they called leftists? Nazis are extreme left and SJWs hate who is normal white male a nazi.
Yes, Nazis and leftists have a lot in common. They don't know what they are talking about when they are calling white male conservatives "Nazis". Leftists are idiots.
OH We sUr3 Do I attCked s0m3 p3ople whO had A deff3rnt op1niOn tHan mine and Thr3w tHeM inT0 a vOlcAn0 it WaS th3 bEsT
I just realized this is why I’m watching this whole thing now lol
The last lady sounds insane. Stages are typically raised so that everyone in the audience can see who is speaking or performing. There are theaters created in such a way so that the stage is set below the audience or the audience is raised above the performers but those are typically extremely large and costly to build. Not to mention, typically the seats that are the highest above and thus furthest away from the speakers are usually considered the absolute worst seats in the house.
Not every stage can be made so that the audience is above the people speaking. It has nothing to do with microaggressions or dominance or whatever. It has to do with cost, availability, and effectiveness.
I just do not understand the mindset that everything, even the mundane, is done so to project some form of power dynamic. It is a mindset that would surely make you anxious and paranoid about the entire world. How can anyone be happy about their lives if all they see in everything, even inanimate objects, is some insane view that it is an opposition to their existence?
Those post modernist philosophers really had a very bleak view of this world. I can understand the cynicism but it really has gone too far now.
I think this comes from the traditional layout for courthouses, churches, etc., to be constructed so that the elite in power don't have to watch their backs.
Having a circle with such a large audience is obviously impractical. I think it's a strawman attack.
I think she had too many safe spaces..
Rightly said. It's a logical problem not Hierarchy . How to people close enough, at the same level, line of sight, more people and cheaper?
1:19:50 - "Atari was hiring more women thirty years ago than Google is today. Why is that?" There, I just rephrased the question to cut it down from three minutes to five seconds.
And with your question, we didn’t need to look at any gross exposed flesh.
Dr Shaym 😂😂😂😂
Cringe at him/her.. I don't know wtf was that?
I bet the kids who got triggered by the phrase "men are taller on average than women" all use the term 'male fragility' all the time unironically.
smokydave
Its a term that Feminsits use to judge & manipulate others - and the Stand hard is always unequal, they don't apply the same standard to themselves.
Most likely.
dont forget, incel, virgin, manbaby, pedophile etc
It's incredible how many people were offended by facts. Oh man, they hated that.
Me: "milk is white"
Them: "milk is a social construct, you biological essentialist!!"
streglof Breast milk is multiple shades of colors but usually with yellow tint. 😋♥️ IBCLC
Welcome to modern times, where biology is the patriarchy and math is racist.
White? Do you assume milk can’t be black? You’re racist!
"People do not have the right to tell you what you can and cannot listen to."
AMEN
actually they do and it already happens you dunce
James looks like Kylo Ren's awkward, more academically driven younger brother.
The dude probably just wants to go back to his room and have a beer and do some coding and marvel at what unique app he has created. And instead, he is just dying of awkwardness of the whole situation.
They have an even younger brother that's a musician.
I think his name is Xylo Phone.
Andrew Gilmartin but is he a thicc boi??
But with smaller hands.
(Seriously, Google his hands)
He has this look on this face like he just remembered he left a pan on the stove.
follow up: they had the panel on Monday. the woman at the end who was asking for such a panel and who was invited by the chair did not turn up!
So classic.
She just needed to get her daily virtue signal in.
I highly recommend anyone who is likely to watch this whole video to do so from beginning to end without jumping around. The question and answer session is awesome and well worth your time.
Those four panelists fill me with hope for the future. One of the best youtube video's I've seen in a while. A hat-tip to Portland State for bringing us this.
I'd thank Peter Bogoshian for the event. Portland state did not support it and put on several events that night to try to disrupt attendance .
The fact that it's 2018 and we are still having conversations about whether men and woman are different, should tell you something about the American education system...
ShadowMirror damn and I flunked out......
ShadowMirror It has FAILED
ShadowMirror It roots deeper
No different than in the left-minded European countries, especially Germany during the last three-four decades -
the virus of brain eating postmodernism has been spreading for a long time and has infected many and much of the Western Worlds -
Well it's 2022 and has only gotten worse. Now people can't even define what a woman is
"Men and women are different"
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
Why can't they act likes adults?
What's an adult? Have you watched a broadcast of members of parliament (or whatever the equivalent is on your country)? Behaviour like that would get you kicked out of a grade 7 classroom, yet they're highly paid people who govern us all. I have no idea what an adult is supposed to act like.
cattycorner Because they aren't. They are young adults. Brains don't fully develop until 24-25. Reality will sink in.
Because they've been mollycoddled all their lives. Raised to think they're victims when in fact they've been given a conceptual special badge that allows them to be right in all arguments because of who they are. They have never had to learn how to actually engage in or debate anything.
They are spoiled children, and they have absolutely no realization of this fact.
They are too emotionally immature and cognitively limited
We live in a Disney World where people (basically overgrown children) are driven by dem feeeeelz.
I could listen to heather heying all day. Her voice is soothing to me.
1:02:37 It took literally one second to hate her.
She has just been used by evil ulterior motive so called professors. I dont hate her.
Phillip Jones
The proffesors didn't even do anything tho
Cool Story
I never said it was their fault. I said it WASN'T
"My comrades." 'Nuff said.
Same... How do these people not see what a joke they are... I cannot comprehend. None of her comrades have showered in months....
I came for the sjw freak out, but stayed for the whole lecture. Thanks Streisand effect!
"Those women are brainwashed!!!" Oh, the irony...
You can tell that James Damore is such a nice guy, whether you agree with him or not, you can tell that he's a very soft spoken and kind guy
Keep fighting the good fight, Brett, Heather and James. The rational and reasonable people of this country are rooting for you.
PS: Helen seemed very reasonable, too. Great panel.
I wish she spoke more, because she's brilliant, but not too vocal in these situations...
you're irrational. dumber than average
as the trigglypuffs make their exit and declare anyone who disagrees with them nazis...soon the real world is gonna slap them in the face, reality will hit like a ton bricks and smash there naive little world
The problem is that they will always play the victim card. They will take no responsibility for their lack of success in the real world, only that they were oppressed. It's the entire problem, the only way to avoid this ideology growing is literally to make sure they find some type of success.
If this shit happened in my tribe back in the day they'd find themselves "lost" in the woods, with only themselves to rely on. They'd change their tune real quick to survive on their own or nature would consume them and recycle their biology for something more useful.
that reality is called: job finding
MichealKingsfordGay lol
Trigglypuffs.
That, my good man, is wonderful.
qwe 123 - maybe they can go and work at Google. ;)
I was a student of Peter. Awesome class and awesome guy. Thanks for making this happen
@Prasanth Thomas yo bsdk!
LOL, that question: why are you all up there and we're all down here and don't have a microphone? because the people are there to listen to the designated speakers not the people in the audience. Why is that hard to understand???
Then the whiners are too stupid to formulate a direct question, but think they merit the same right to be on a stage and heard, without doing the years of work that got those people on the stage.
I wonder if they also think the entire audience should be on a stage with the actors during a play, or the symphony, etc. What idiots.
Hey middle aged perma-student lady: if you want to be on the dais with the microphone, organize your own talk and see who shows up. What's so hard about that?
Smart women, so lovely to listen to her dispel effortlessly so much nonsense.
Where is Dr. Jordan Peterson here..
I hadn't heard of Heather before this, but I'm a big fan now. She speaks so calmly and clearly.
The delicious irony that theyre mad about men being stronger and taller and then get removed by a bigger stronger man
Thank you James for being a martyr, one good man's and reputation sacrificed for us all to listen and pay attention.
The fact that any one person carries a shred of animosity towards James breaks my heart. They got the wrong guy!!!
Heather Heying shines here. Very eloquent and clear thinking.
"What's male genitalia?"
Congratulations, you just won a free helicopter ride.
@Kali Southpaw I think it was that same garden gnome girl that is so articulate at 1:02:35
The last woman is an example of the problem with society. She probably sat there the entire night stewing over the fact that they were sitting higher than her and not hearing ANY of the discussions. She doesn't want to have a real conversation she wants to push her ideas. Sad.
she really was insufferable
As of 2023, this problem with shutting down speech has only gotten worse.
"I'm an intersectional feminist because 'lonely bitter dog-mom' didnt have much of a ring to it."
2+2=5
Of course it does Mark :D And all who disagree are racist, Nazi, blah blah blah! Gravity is a construct of the white man to keep minorities down!
Getting flashbacks to reading 1984 again.
yo Mark!!
literally!
2+2 is 6 fucknuggit!
I am so glad that I watched this today. I saw James this morning on an interview program and was interested to hear more about the science behind his paper. I have not been disappointed in what I have heard from four educated and intelligent people. Instead of walking out those people should of hung around and listened, they might have learned something. Thank you for having me here today, I almost passed it up because of the place it was coming from, I guess I needed to learn something also.
I like this discussion, because it's so calm and I can think about what was said. Thank you very much:)
Why does everyone that disagree look so sickly? They look very ill.
B N they are vegans
Because they are nuts
Their fragility is really at the heart of their rage and mob mentality. They hide behind virtue and say they are against fascist power structures, but what they mean is that they hate how incapable they are to exercise power in their lives so they have to blame it on being victims instead of taking responsibility for themselves. They aren't really railing against fascism, they are mad they aren't the ones with the power to make others bend to their wills.
u can see peoples souls?
Recently a study even revealed that leftists tend to be uglier than conservatives. No shit.
WHY IS SHE NOT ARRESTED? If that was a NBA event and someone sabotaged the sound they would go to jail no question....
Could be just a citation, why jail?
Because she's a woman. She's seen by the officer as not dangerous and weak. If society was based on gender equality, she would be arrested.
Ummmmm..because its not a NBA event?
Gripping. Thanks to all the panel and PSU. This conversation helps. It performs balancing, sharpens mind and contributes valuable and philanthropic equity to civilized society (east and west) as a whole.
kudos to these guys for inviting him...this must be tough especially in a city like portland
This is the first time I've seen Heather Heying on a panel. Hopefully she gets more exposure. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to what she had to say.
Siggy in CR ua-cam.com/video/HYJFgyqs0sM/v-deo.html
Uneducated liberal: “My friends and I have been ignored by the university and they won’t let us have a voice!”
Professor at university “that is not okay and you should have a voice and I will help you wherever I can.”
“.......”
liberal’s friend: “see, you interrupted her!”
You go to university to learn, not to have a voice. You know very little to voice an opinion about which they show quite clearly in this video. That's why there are professors who are professionals at universities to teach students who listen to them.
Outstanding discussion. Much appreciated. I've been reading a lot of Orwell and we r living it.
On the Sweden question. I can comment since I've lived here for quite some time now, but I'm not natively Swedish so I think I have an outsiders viewpoint on it. One of the first things I noticed that really surprised me (positively) was that there were quite a few women doing the garbage collection, maintenance, taxi drivers, bus drivers, working in heavy machinery factories etc. I know that there are no pay differences in these areas based on gender. It's purely a job that pays a certain amount. So, from that point of view I really like the feeling here. Another factor which might not sit well with our US readers is the notorious taxation system in Sweden. What this does is pretty much levels the economic playing field for many job types to such an extent that for a lot of cases it doesn't matter what job you do, you'll end up with a relatively similar wage as a large proportion of society. There are exceptions: doctors, dentists, business owners etc. are always going to make more money, but they are objectively difficult jobs to get into based on intelligence or business savvy. That said, I see loads of women in all those areas also. But back to the "normal" jobs, since that covers the vast majority of people. The effect of the taxation system is that it reduces envy and general discontent among people. The government (via taxes) provides a lot of ground-level services (and the jobs to support those services) to everyone, regardless of income, that make life possible to live without worrying too much about making ends meet. That support structure cost money and the taxes go to help with that. I think that the possibilities given to people here allow them to function effectively and happily. In my humble opinion, it's a very good system. Another interesting thing, almost unique to Sweden, is the time given to new parents (both men and women). There's also a societal expectation that men take parental leave when they have a kid. It's socially unacceptable here not to do that. p.s. I work in tech, so last thing: I see very few women in tech. I mean coding here, not project managers etc. I see equal capability, but in todays tech space, you need to put in hours and hours of extra time just to keep up with the changing landscape to be a good coder. Guys tend to not mind wasting their personal time catching up, most women won't do that. I have no data to back that up except direct experience. I don't log it =) I'm not Google.
Thank you guys for defending science, logic, common decency, and free speech
The first ones to jump to the QA were like: REEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
i've been saying this for years.. glad it's finally in a public forum.
"Men are taller than women." *SMASH RIOT BASH BASH BASH RIOT*
or conversely "men are taller than women...etc etc" therefore women aren't good at tech, that is going to be your argument?
@@MsDidi38 Women aren't good at tech at the same rate that men are good at tech, but that probably has nothing to do with height. If there is a connection or correlation, it's deeply embedded and incredibly ancient.
@@jkovert yes it's embedded in a historical separation of the sexes into sex roles based on biology
@@MsDidi38 True. Women have to sit down to pee.
@@MsDidi38. We had a neuropsychology conference in Brazil with a french professor and it was really interesting. There are some studies available about babies preferences. They are not culturally aware, but already gravitate toward some specific choices for each gender.
Wow what a stark contrast between the profound brilliance of the panelists and utter stupidity of some of these students. Heather Meyer completely dominated in this panel, she just cut straight to chase, no bullshit no holding back. Peter Boghossion was exceptional as well, especially on how he managed to cope with the sheer degeneracy and grotesque ignorance in the Q&A. All around excellent panel.
You've got to love 'millenialsplaining' where an 18 year old with no life experience tells adults how the world works using made up social studies words and up-speaks at the end of every sentence.
LOL! Best comment :-)
I know. And I can't say I am innocent of this either because I used to be exactly like that years ago. My fortune was to live with parents who taught me good manners and a father who is a Biologist so this information has always been there when I needed. No need to figure out it on my own when I got encyclopedia as my father. :D
Like, whuuuu?
Barny Fraggles yeah, its a bit embarrassing, really.
These are not millenials they are part of Gen Z. Millennials born btwn 1981-1996; Gen Z 1997-2013
"Intersectionality" is not a word I heard when I went to college.
At about 1:03, what a mess. The questioner(s) seem like a bunch of kids who just want to get their way rather than debate ideas.
you can't rationalize with the irrational
Women and Men ARE different, biologically, and psychologically.... but that is a good thing, for we are all equal in importance, it is just that our roles according to Nature are different for a reason, they complement each other... one is not more important than the other. We are the Yin and Yang of Nature. And no, there there is no more intelligent individuals in one gender or the other... I have ran into pretty stupid people in BOTH genders!
I agree except that males are on the average more intelligent than females when it comes to mathematics, science and yes, even history in many cases. That definitely is not written in stone but ..on average it is true. As a female I can am secure enough in myself that I can admit that I love and appreciate that the genders are different in many ways.
Always check out the index vs ring finger ratio on women.
It is amazingly predictive.
Sandy Miller That's BS. On average men and women basically the same level of intelligence. Men have more geniuses, as well as more imbeciles. Women are more even.
But that's the WRONG kind of diversity because women don't come out on top in every way, so it's misogynistic. They want the RIGHT kind of diversity that favors women. Because -women are better- women are underrepresented. Just look at the approaching 2:1 women to men ratio on college campuses.
I studied medicine so I've got a fairly good understanding of humans lol
Women and men obviously have xternal differences such as fat deposit location and muscle length, density, and strength on top of the obvious differences like presence of body hair, rate of hair growth, and genitalia.
In terms of the brain which is what leads to intelligence well first off, it depends on their genetics and upbringing. You can have the potential to be smart but have a bad upbringing and constantly make bad choices and have a good upbringing with what we would look at clinically as brain which isn't optimal or things may come naturally to otherwise unsound brains ex: savants.
Brain chemistry? Women tend to have more pathways which cross between sections and men tend to have then more isolated. In short, women are better at multi tasking and men are better at focus biologically. We see this in stereotypes and they really do come from are re place of fact. Women tend to think about things all at once "how do I look, what's for dinner, is this good for me, why am I in traffic so long, etc". Whereas men go through a process when thinking more often such as "what's for dinner, oh maybe what I saw on that show, I should watch that show again, do I look as good as as jerry Seinfeld? "
Of course not every man or woman is like this as asnr there's mixes but honestly guys, this is how brains often work on a general level. Do some self review. You might see yourself doing it exactly as I showed within the next hour!
The real question is, why would someone who identifies neither as a man nor a woman be offended about differences between men and women? Why even attend the event to begin with? I mean, aren't binaries for us boring Nazi-fascist-normies now? By the way, the term Nazi is cultural appropriation!!
It may be worth noting that (correct me if I'm wrong) that the 36% women at Atari statistic was across all departments including art dept and marketing, staff services etc. My recollection is that Atari had a couple of female programmers (still trailblazing for the time) but not 36% of programmers were female, which may change the context of the correlation being made in that particular question.
I was thinking the same, thanks.
Just as an older person - in the 1980s and even early 90s, men saw touching a keybard as demeaning. A keyboard was a typist tool - seen as female. I suspect atari had a lot more keyboarding done by women while the provrammers wrote the program by hand - just my anecdotal remembrance of male and female behaviour
This was actually a very well done discussion. The entire panel was very polite and very respectful.
It's perfectly acceptable to be angry, but not all actions taken in anger are good and appropriate. Learn to be angry while still managing to control yourself at a level expected of every adult.
The appropriate and scholarly response by the protesters would have been to watch the talk then bring up their counterpoints in the Q&A. Of course, that would require them to have a coherent, logical argument based on facts and data.
Heather's response to the Piratebro at 1:29:28, "I think the answer has to be 42," is the moment I fell in love.
For me that I'm watching this from Italy, a country that have been oppresed by a fascist regime, all that is happening in America (but also in many West Democracy), has similarity with fascism. Feminism and gender ideology sound like fascism and fascism propaganda. I really hope our countries will find the strenght to kick out feminism and sessist ideology from our world. It's our battle, it's up to us to fight for the sake of our children. But I'm happy, now I see the begin of a fight, it will be long, hard, like all the fights for freedom. Thank you for share this precious and illuminating document. Sorry for my english
Intro by Bret Weinstein starts at 2:07
Discussion with the panel starts at 8:17
Shit hits the fan at?
Around 20:30.
Close your eyes at 1:05:20
This is why the students are so bold about being stupid. If i walk in to my school/uni and start breaking equipment i'll be in trouble immediately. These guys dont even bother running away because they can sit there with a smug face without any consequences.
It's like children who never hear the word no, and look at you in the eye as they do something shitty.
What a great panel. Both those interested in honest dialogue and the ideological dogmatists speak very clearly and crisply for themselves. Thank you for putting this on. I have subscribed and look forward to more of your presentations.
I just found out today that this panel talk happened.... Just like the protests in Toronto against Jordan B Peterson, this signifies a huge shift in Western culture. This should be in all history books in 50 years time.
Wow. Portlandia is not just a tv joke is it?
Portlandia is the comedy version for public consumption the reality goes even much much further. Having lived there the horror is real.
Watch the very first episode of Portlandia again - the part where the man went to Portland and came back with fantastical stories of a strange place with strange people. The best part of the "TV joke" is that it is based on reality - funniest jokes are true.
+Juantarde
And put a bird on it!!
diversity of thought is literally the only type of diversity that matters at all
I have watched this conversation almost without breathing. Thanks for sharing.
Brett you are a lucky gem, you have a diamond in the ruff and I hope to find someone as formidable as Heather in my life :)
I'm Transgender immigrant, and I'm glad to see some sanity being finally restored.
For the longest time I have felt alone on this, 99% of the people I know are against freedom of speech, against discussion.
It makes me happy to see some sanity finally being restored, I hope this conversations continue, I hope for panels like this to be promoted, I hope for youtube to start promoting this kind of contend instead of the regressive divisive agenda that has been pushed thus far.
I'm Transgender, I'm Immigrant, I'm a gamer, I'm Mexican, and I'm tired of the regressive left.
Edit: I don't belong to the LGBT because I refuse to be part of the hivemind, the moment I dared to have ideas of my own I was accused of being divisive to the community, as if I had signed some kind of hivemind agreement.
We need to hear more voices like yourself who can think for themselves and don't follow like sheep. I bet there are more people who think like you but they get drowned out by the disrupters in this video.
You like big fat white guys? There are mountains of them in the US.
I'm a transspecied intergalactic shape shifter and I like Peanut Butter flavored Captain Crunch because Smedley is my friend.....
So you are a Boy
Kimera they're really just about building an army of useful idiots to bring about their 'revolution'. It took me many many years of working with them to fully realize it, but I'm thoroughly convinced now. None of them like hearing that because who wants to admit they're a useful idiot, but it's true. They switch positions at the drop of a hat and many of their positions are just antics to disrupt, not even real positions. That's because they don't even know what the real positions are half the time, they're just needed as a little distractionary force for this that or another antic.
This is why there are so many former lefties who are so pissed at them when they leave. Once they realize the lies they've been being fed they get disillusioned, frustrated, disgusted, and pissed off.
I personally got quite pissed at them here in Oregon when I realized the way they were going about enacting marine reserves. I was all about them, and I think I still am, but their tactics were despicable. I participated in and was privy to the whole narrative building campaign that they built to discredit all of the low income fishing communities they were destroying up and down the coast. They essentially held a gun to those communities head, saying "we are going to build these reserves, no matter how they impact your communities, but if you play along we will let you have a say in where they are". They needed some of them to play along so they could say it was a "coalition", and had "community support", but nothing was further from the truth. They recruited a bunch of idealistic youths like myself who wanted to help the world and got us to do things like go to the capitol with their paid lobby groups to puff up our numbers, and visit senators for the same reason. We didn't really need to do anything but sit there, and hearing the testimonies of the poor fishermen who'd had to take a day off work to drive from all the way on the coast to dink around the senate all day, talk about how badly they were hurting, how it was really Chinese fishermen off the coast taking all the fish (they do that, I've seen them while sailing, and there's a video on here showing some of them being fired on by I think it was the Chilean navy for the same thing), and how they weren't willing participants or 'community support' or coalition members at all. They all made it quite clear they were being dragged by their noses to participate just so they could have any say at all. It reminded me of the depictions of Native American treaties. I then asked the lobbyist who was leading our group, and she confirmed that they were doing exactly what was being described, because they needed to, to build the image and narrative. "Nobody should see how sausage or politics are made" is the line. The left are not the idealistic do-gooders they pretend to do, and if you think you're working for some noble leftist cause, you probably aren't. There is another reason for it, and you are a useful idiot tool.
"Byeeee". That's it? That's their rebuttal!? 😂
no it's "Baiiiiiiiiiiiii" lol
Chakib Tsouli - Apparently they are so superior in their intellect and moral superiority, and are on such a higher level socially, that they can’t waste their brain space on factual based discussions...
@@profkomrad I'm 'Baiiiiiiiii' Curious.
Liberal logic.
they're in dire need of a beating and expulsion
Heather Heying is very impressive. She nails it every time.
Literally all of them are people I got to appreciate tremendously for their work!
I'm a 68 yr young transwoman , transitioning 5 yrs ago after moving to a wonderful BC small interior logging community, I'm still very busy doing construction work which has been my primary vocation. I've had great acceptence coming out and living full time female, now post op. I.ve always loved the very binary nature of nature and now this woke postmodernist ideology I see as a threat to all honest transwoman as well as many others . Thanks to this panel and there adherence to the truth against those that would deny it. I've still got lots to build including my own femininity.
Peter Boghossian is not prepared to give an inch. We need many more people like him
Something the right and the REAL left, the open minded liberals can agree on; these protesters are a waste of space.
Balloonbot honestly I’m a centrist so I’m fine with liberals but I hate the libtards like the chick with the neon hair
Evil Bastard thanks for identifying yourself to us. Now please leave like the rest of the children in that video did.
I can think of a half dozen liberals that i personally know who do not act irrational like that. What is the point you are trying to make?
Evil Bastard
You are obviously a troll who doesn’t get out much because you clearly haven’t met many left leaning liberals. Those protesters were as much a representation of the left as the neo-Nazi incels represents the right.
The fact that the seating arrangement had to be explained to the silly cow at the end perfectly sums up our current problems in the West.
I feel bad for you guys at PSU. Keep up the good fight.
Hello from Denmark. I'm offended by blue haired people.
Raymond Lumsden lol I don't understand Americans either
My answer to the question at 1:26:00:
There is nothing wrong with anyone being personally emotionally triggered by anything, as long as they don't involve others in it.
The unloving behaviour is when people go "Im feeling angry, upset, etc - so that gives me the right to project it onto others, try to control or manipulate them or treat them badly. THAT is what is unloving, uncivilized & interferes with sincere & genuine discourse to seek truths or create solutions.
Yes. Although, the people, who stood up at the beginning were not simply angry. They basically came with the intention to sabotage the whole discussion from the very beginning, and *that* is a very different story. The original answer in the video was mostly about that. Most angry people don't damage sound systems on their way out.
Speaking of stereotypes: The ... persons at 20:08 and 20:30 achieved to bulls-eyes so many of them.
- asymmetric hair-cut dyed in attention-granting color? ... Check.
- obese and/or otherwise unattractive? ... Check.
- loud and annoying, putting themselves above the etiquette of communication? ... Check.
- superiour smirk? ... Check.
- withdrawing from factual dispute? ... Check.
- resorting to physical aggression when asked to order? ... Check.
Great Talk and a Fabulous Panel. Heartfelt thanks to the panel!!