Roman Citizen Describes Ancient Ireland and Thule // Edge of Known World // 7 BC Strabo Geographica
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- Опубліковано 21 гру 2019
- Here we have the Greek and likely Roman Citizen Strabo describing the edge of the world as Rome knew it in the first century, the windswept island of Ierne - and even further than that, the legendary island of Thule. Surrounded by a 'sea-lung', an impenetrable mix of solid and liquid, Thule and "Ultima Thule" later became synonymous with the furthest point north on the map.
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Hello all!
If this channel is something you like, if you think saving primary sources is important, head over to the Patreon and join up :)
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Hey, Can you do one on the Chinese Du Huan about the Abbasid Chaliphate?
Love your channel❤.
What's the name of that opening peice of music,I hear it in alot of vids!
Sorry I won't work with Patreon. I don't like the way their representatives speak about people like me.
@@chrisduff9266 Yea that Music ist So Nice Mate?
@@marcusallgood5198 Hey:) YES He should start an YTube MEMBER's Option Aye!! So sorry to hear that! I don not REmember?? hearing
No nastiness or even subverted racism when I had interaction wit thier Media Aye?(
Whatz the main Probb Mate? 🤔🤗🙋
I really admire how this Roman guy makes it clear that his sources are unreliable, and he doesn't know everything, to stop the spread of false information.
Journalists today could learn a thing or two from him.
R3D so could almost everyone today.
And jet most people don' listen to thoose disclaims they just listen what they want. If you don't know don't speak about it you can skip it.
But people take many things they hear as fact so it would still spread but not because of what he said but what people thought of it
@@Daylon91 true, but at least he was trying. More than many, many people can say for themselves both today and on the past
*Is Irish, excited to hear Ancient Accounts of my home*
Seconds Later..
OH GOD OH MOTHER OF WHHHYYYY
Lmaooo
Don't take any of this verbatim. Roman sources talk some amount of shite
@Lt Fuckwit Actually the Roman accounts of China are mostly pretty flattering or neutral. If you want to hear a historian shit on a foreign culture you should listen to that one Islamic historians shitting on the Northern Rus.
Don't worry he basically described all of western european peoples besides the romans as cannibals...
To split the difference: it's plausible that out of a thousand tribes there were a handful of cannibalistic ones. The cannibals got more attention because they present a danger and make for thrilling tales.
If you go back far enough in time cannibalism has been practiced pretty much everywhere that humans have been, it's just that societies seem to abandon it more commonly than not, even when still at the hunter-gatherer level of economy.
Damn, the Irish have been getting shit on as far back as 7 BC
Aw those were the good old days
I guess certain peoples are just constantly screwed over by history.
@@utzius8003 they actually had a pretty good run... 12000+ years of peaceful sovereignty until they ran into British Imperialism a few hundred years ago... and again with Neo-Liberalism 15 years ago...
It is a real shame that it doesn't look like their race is going to exist in Ireland much longer
@@judgeholden849 just listen to your lol
@@judgeholden849 knob head !
When Pytheas compares sea ice to sea lungs, he means that floating ice slush had the consistency of a jellyfish.
Or it could have been sea moss. "Cant sail in it, cant walk in it". Moss was plentiful around Ireland at the time
@@BritishJamaican777 Unlikely, Pytheas specifically describes the water gaining a slush consistency, his brethren would not have doubted his account if he'd only described a type of seaweed they were unfamiliar with.
It'a funny to hear, but then again the Southern Europeans didn't have the experience of all what ice can be. But for a modern European it's fascinating there were such vast differences perceived in Europe. Well, I guess 3 zones can be detected in Europe: the subarctic& arctic north (diminishing by the global warming) & the sunny Mediterranean winelands are very different. And then the central European belt combines their features, creating the continuum. Funny how this ancient reporter said there's no 'pure' sunshine :)
Thank you, I was wondering if that was a metaphor
no. he would obviously understand that ice is ice. land, water and air doesnt seize to exist just because you see some ice. he was clearly talking about something else, dont asdume they where as dumb as you.
Despite the claims that he lied, Pytheas was the first to describe the artic and the Midnight Sun among other thing, he kinda reminds me of Hanno. His voyage was in fact plausible. Too bad his writings were lost. The hole thing is a great plot for a movie or series.
Yes, it's just lies in my eyes
@Evi1M4chine So u think he found Antartika after UK but didn't tell about polar bears, penguins, and white tigers? Duh.
@@Haru23a You do realize that Antarctica and the arctic are two different places right? Polar bears and penguins don't even live in the same continent. Penguins live in the Antarctic while polar bears live in the arctic. Also it's quite plausible to travel through the arctic without ever running into polar bears. Such as Scandinavia where a good portion of the land mass passes through the arctic circle while also not being within the range of the historic polar bear population, also what the hell do you mean by white tigers?
@@obscureoccultist9158 Stoopid nonscence what doesn't even understand white tigers - it's just a tiger whats get white fur cos Antartika is full of snow. This is a big island at the top of the world after Britain, Scotland and Norway. It is 6 months night and 6 months day so 1 year equals to 1 day. What I am telling is nobody was 2 that place from Greece. First personage to go to the very top of the world was Captain Cook. Educate urseself. Duh.
@@Haru23a ok I see. It has become very clear you have a crippling lack of education. Ok starters, Tigers have never lived in Europe. Both modern or historical for that matter. Secondly, the Antarctic is located in the South pole! You know, the place south of Australia? What we're talking about is the Arctic. You know, the land North of Canada and Scandinavia and before you say anything. People have been there before. There called the Inuit and if they managed to live there. Then its possible for a person from the Mediterranean to manage a trip up there.
This sounds like he never went there and just asked the Welsh to discrbe them. They were probably taking the piss as they do
Thats how most historians did things back then there was one guy who could write who would ask people who could not write questions about what happened in certain places.
@@belstar1128 at this time historians wernt really a thing they were more personal diaries that historical fact with the idea of telling a good story than truth . we call them historians now but i doubt they would call themselves that.
@coinínbán cessair a medieval Christian pseudo-history of Ireland and the bible and biblical stories from the middle east have nothing to do with western history. they are fiction spread by the church which took over, as for the pagan elites were not the same as the judochristan kabul's that controlled the narrative after the church took over roman empire . the archaeology evidence shows native skeleton burials before 2000 bc and the celts from germany colonise ireland in 500 bc . 300 bc theres a lavish grave mound of a egyptian princess found . ireland has constant movement of people from gaul, germania, iberia and the mediterranean.
@J T southern danish northern french,german ,iberian are all indistinguishably have the germanic haplogroups r1b. if you talking about ogham that's a symbol to meaning system like kuneform or sanskrit, yes they spoke a proto gaelic . the irish are a cousin family of the celtic group, the irish are as much proto indo European as all the other groups of the british isles and western europe. having something older doesn't mean first it's just the oldest one they've found to date the dna from that area of the british isles are the same north iberian male corpse there isn't much of defining features,useal differences are the diseases were prone to ..... the bible isn't a great base for historical fact is, what i'm saying same as many 2nd to 3rd hand accounts. our language we are speaking now is norman latin english no one speaks the old tongue and hasnt for years and this been plenty of changes. a celtic wave migration is similar to the saxon one it's not a sudden event or least that how it's described along rough events dates.
@J T this is a interpretation language of protoeuropean ua-cam.com/video/S7kxmcz971E/v-deo.html
“But I am saying this with the understanding I have no trustworthy witnesses”
Aka the ancient way of saying, “I have no clue what happens over there and this is likely completely inaccurate.”
i ate my dad with some fatha beans and a pint of guiness
‘Fatha beans’ is the best writing I’ve seen in weeks.
I just learnt: a "sea lung" is an archaic term for a jellyfish. When he says that at the edge of the world, the elements blend together to a substance like a sea lung, he's saying that it becomes gelatinous or something like that. Kind of a cool image, actually.
That is interesting
I've seen some suggestions that this is basically just a description of the slush of sea ice in the North Sea, which is entirely possible since something like that would have been completely alien to people living in the Mediterranean.
@@simtexa oh, that's very interesting!
*No One:*
*Strabo on the Inhabitants of Ireland:*
🎶 ‘Sweet Home Alabama!’ 🎶
Lol to be fair Strabos description of Ireland is mostly based on hearsay instead of actual fact 😂
@@hunternichols9463 yeah he said so
DUUUUVALLLL. LERP.
My mom went to school with Lynyrd Skynyrd. My mom was a square though
Given the level of blarney we Irish are capable of, we probably spread the cannibal myth ourselves, to put the fear of God into our enemies 😉
Sounds about right man.
Or it could be true
Tony Connolly anyone feeling peckish 😉
Had the Irish even arrived in Ireland from Spain according to Irish legends at this point?
Carewolf I don’t know where you got that from but there are remains of settlements in Ireland as far back as the Stone Age, 7000 BC
I wonder if Thule could have been Iceland? 🤔
Doubt it there was no people on iceland back then as far as we know.
@@thenextshenanigantownandth4393 No, there where. There is evidence of it being settled by the Irish. But they left for some reason. Before the Vikings
@@ofthecaribbean
Exactly what I was thinking.
Of the Caribbean They probably we’re trying to avoid the buggering their later (enslaved) countrymen received after the Wikings settled those lands.
isle of man most likley no 1 on iceland at that time
Ancient Roman writers, more scientific and skeptical than modern Facebook posters
Love your work. You really bring these voices to life.
Thanks!
Thanks for another great video, love this stuff
Subscribed!! History and Finance are my 2 favorite subjects to continually learn more about.
YAC: Sounds like the Hanseatic League would be right up your alley!
Strabo thought that Ireland was to the north of Britain, Tacitus thought it was between Britain and Iberia. Moral of the story: never ask a Roman for directions.
They made all roads going to Rome to never get lost
Technically, they can be both right and wrong at the same time. Depends on the interpretation of the maps.
Isn't Ireland between Britain and Iberia?
@@stefanalexanderlungu1503 No
@@stefanalexanderlungu1503Iberia is modern day Spain and Portugal .
Ireland is West of island of Britain and south of Scotland.
There ars two Irelands , one is called as Derry or Ulster or northern island, it's a part of great Britain it's capital is Belfast and many funny businesses have taken place there.
While republic of Ireland the actual Ireland is the country wholly absolutely and totally independent of Britain and it's capital is Dublin I guess .
Thule is interesting. It's not Norway and Sweden. Those were recognized by the Romans as various Germanic tribes, including the Goths. It could be Greenland. At least today, Greenland is connected with the word Thule. As in Thule Air Base in Northern Greenland.
We also have a beer called Thule in Iceland. It's a terrible beer...
It could possibly be the Faroes or Iceland but that is unlikely since I'm pretty sure the earliest human evidence in both places were from monks around the 6th century
Maybe it is one of the islands north of Siberia like Novaya Zemlya.
It's been suggested that it may have been the Orkney or Shetland isles, but no one really knows.
My guess it is an amalgam of several different accounts from diverse sources but all takes of places very far north. You figure most of the time, a story told about such a place by a non-Roman, when heard by a Roman, the Roman would assume it was Thule. Romans didn’t have the same understanding if the article circle as we do now, so everything far enough “North” of the lands known to Rome could be Thule. Just my conjectures though; I only know what I have heard on the channel and read about.
Cannibalism was common among warlike tribes especially those who headhunted like the Celts. A man taking his sister in law after the death of his brother was pretty much the norm in ancient times also. The Romans saw everyone as barbarous, what is hilarious is that over 1500 years later the French historian Voltaire described the Irish in the same manner.
We the Greeks saw any non Greek speaker as a barbarian based on the sound of their spoken languages and not based on their customs and traditions.
Could we still be cannibalistic? 🫢
You should read from Lebor Gabála Érenn, and tell the stories of Irish mythology. There may not be any direct sources and what we do have is fairly spotty and adapted by English scribes, but it's still interesting enough to talk about
I like these so much.
Thanks Ted!
Your videos are pure gold. Keep it up!
Thanks buddy!
Thule is the farthest north location mentioned in ancient Greek and Roman literature and cartography. Modern interpretations have included Orkney, Shetland, northern Scotland, the island of Saaremaa (Ösel) in Estonia,[and the Norwegian island of Smøla. Thule was frequently identified with Norway.
I love history so much . So amazing
Nice body but why did you use that as your background pic?
Good video. Please do more accounts of Pytheas describing the British Isles if possible (I understand the source texts are lost?)
I can't get over Pythias struggling to describe ICE!
There is a Thule Island on google maps, next to Cook Island in Southern Thule, you have to zoom in close to see it, there seems to be a huge crater on the top of the peak.
I can't image why I, in particular, found the first part of this so hilarious.
good to know that ireland hasnt changed since ancient times
Browsing UA-cam as I wait for my neighbours arm to defrost.
We're not that weird in Ireland any more, honest! I grew up on the east coast, north of Dublin. There were reports a few years ago of Roman artifacts found. A few Roman soldiers might have came over for a visit
Some Roman soldiers wanted a few pints of Guinness probably 😉
@@RicArmstrong their was probably no more than a fishing hut in Dublin's place before the Norse founded the island, so sadly they probably didn't share one in a chill PUB
@@theghosthero6173 Well the Romans did map the area which is now Dublin as Eblana polis, so it must have been of some interest for them to note it as one of the capitals of the island, so clearly there was more there then just a few fishing huts.
@@thenextshenanigantownandth4393 really? Damn I was miss informed
@@theghosthero6173 I'm not denying that what we now consider Dublin was established by Vikings, but the Romans did map the area to be a capital of Ireland, so the area must have had some significant power sway for the Romans to note it down. There is also a Roman fort outside of Dublin called Drumanagh, but its purpose is a mystery, whether it was a military strong hold or just a trading post is not known, I reckon it was a trading post, but you never know. The site has only recently been allowed to be excavated after decades of legal dispute. I reckon they tasted our whiskey and decided not to invade us because it was so damn good.
Fascinating.
I always thought the description Pytheas gave of northernmost stretches sounded remarkably like the icy, slushy waters of the arctic. It fits quite well to me imo, and could be relaying what other people described who’d been up there.
Video should be titled "Ancient Roman slanders the Irish"
Really interesting listening to this as a Irishman myself, mad what they thought back then but who knows they could be right.
i love this ancient explorers. feels like they're always talking about fantastical lands lol
marsallia is marseille right? I remember the name being slightly different back in the day as it started off as a greek colony
Pytheas sailed to explore the north and Euthymenes the south (down to the mouth of the Senegal river). Today, both of them are honored by statues on the front of the Palais de la Bourse, as the first heroes of the city.
Massalia (Μασσαλία) in Greek
Yes that’s correct. (Only reason I know was playing Imperator 😆)
Do Strabo description of Iberia and Iberian tribes!
.. they pound it out in large storehouses"
Riihi mainittu! Torilla tavataan!
That is a description of the Baltic-Finnish drying barn.
This is homeboy territory.
This reporting is as accurate and reliable as a 6th grader who obviously didn't read the novel before writing his book report. Kind of like the mainstream media of today
Any other civilization badmouthed slightly: *substantially visible dislikes*
"Irish people eat people and find it honorable to eat the corpse of their dead fathers, and engage in X and Y crazy things" while Irish music plays: *very few Irish dislikes*
Please do a podcast!
May Santa fill yer stockings one and all . Ho Ho Ho
Interesting the name of this place the ancient Romans gave to it and much later was the name of the culture/people who predated the modern Inuit.
Could this be related to the Thule people who later inhabited Greenland? Curious connection of wording anyway.
Probably no. To get to Greenland, you have to go through Iceland first.
That wasn't their own name though, that was just what modern anthropologists called them there was also a culture that was named the "Dorset culture", but they didn't have any connection with the English county.
If Strabo was alive today he'd most certainly be working for the Daily Mail or Express.
Thule sounds like it might have been an ice pack or sheet.
❄
At 3:00, he is describing frosty mist?
So Thule isn't in the arctic circle because they likely would've called it Hyperborea on account of it's 'never-ending' day/night cycle.
So I guess the sticky stuff that isn't land or sea or sky is the ice cap, right?
Could Thule possibly be the Shetlands, or the Orkney's? I don't know if Iceland was populated at this date.
It wasn't until the early 1000s AD. Probably he was taking about Scotland
@@kevinclass2010 The Icelandic parliament, the Althing, was established in 930. Iceland was settled in 874.
Could you imagine the stories the Irish were telling going the other way in more ways than many!
Saints and scholars because we were small??
2:53 if Thule's "sea lungs" weren't proper land and couldn't be sailed or walked upon, could they have been ice sheets? Or a "substance" like ether?
Ice bergs?
Does the Thule company take its name from folklore?
They got their drink from grain and honey? Sounds like beer and Mead to me! :-)
I wish more ancient historians had qualified their propositions with „I have no trustworthy eyewitnesses“
Sea lungs sounds like swamps or bogs or quick sand
Can we get some stuff from Gerald of Wales?
Isn't the Scots Gaelic for Iceland "Innis Tile" which literally Isle of Thule? So I don't think that Thule's location is unknown. Interestingly, it isn't the Irish Gaelic word, which may be consistent with it being further from Ireland than from Scotland.
There wasn't any Gaelic Scottish back then.
@Michael Halligan Gaelic refers to old Irish. Irish and Scottish are descended from old Irish hence Irish-Gaelic.
Very interesting insight Patrick. I wish there was more discussion what you said about Thule rather than nitpicking on the Gaelic labeling.
The Irish brought gaelic to what is now Scotland
Lack of sunshine!
What did he mean by sea lungs?
icebergs
Hey Remember that channel
TheThuleanPerspective and how youtube had him removed for criticising the swedish ban on particular runes and norse symbols.....
Kinda miss old Varg's videos
Bugzy Hardrada Sweden banned runes??
Can you elaborate on that? What signs were censored and why?
Thule Air Force Base is located on Greenland
It's almost like this account has been around for a while, and people may have read it....
Perhaps Thule was what we now know ov as Iceland, or a lower area ov Norway?
Probably Norway, since Iceland wasn't settled yet by the time of this account. Also because the coast of Norway fits the description of a place where there is little sunlight, a lot of rain and a place where sea and land meet.
"Where there are grain and honey, people get their beverage from them."
B.K.A. "BEER!"
Mead
Sea lungs, must be taking about the bogs. Maybe even about how they are made and what they can be used for. 🤔☘️
Maybe Thule is Shetland, Orkney or The Faroes?
Jurgen Spanuth has done what is probably the most unbiased, thorough research on this topic. "Atlantis of the North" is extremely informative. Don't let the title deter you. This is a straight forward approach using the texts of the ancients, science, archaeology and more.
I thought Thule was the old name for Iceland lol but there were no people there at that point..
"Its breath being greater than its length", wrong , from the get go 🤣.
ok, now we know about Thule... but how about ULTIMA THULE, is Meteion still there somewhere in the ultimate edge of known world?
That is the same place.
"Its breadth greater than its length" 😂😂😂
Sea lungs? ...this almost sounds like a work of fiction. Either that or the mystery still a bounded
Jellyfish?
Man eating Irish, intriguing
accusations of cannibalism and incest are a commonly chucked at them during prechristian times, was common hearsay thrown at remote tribes even if oft repeated.
but more historically reputed is reports of Catholic and occupying English lords having the devils own job getting the irish to stop marrying their nieces up till the 14th century. They did this for the same reason as the Hapsburg's, keeping family land form being married away.. but yeah it was a thing.
@Jay See Gowan ya boy ya!
@Joe Blambato jr Mixed salad for all! Dine on my black hole!
The memory is in the DNA. It belongs to the land...
@Joe Blambato jr If you don't like it and you feel like you don't belong,...just fuck off while the going is good. The genes are getting switched on...
"Man-eaters", etc. Could that be just hearsay, as well as a reflection of the prejudices of the time? I believe that the Romans considered themselves to be the height of civilization, while all other peoples were barbaric. Also, I don't understand what the writer meant by "sea lungs". Is that a mistranslation? Or perhaps he saw some frozen material with various matter in it, that he had never seen before, and was just trying to find words to describe it.
If even the roman historian admits it could just be bullshit in his own text you can feel free to discard it.
I look at it as an "us versus them" mentality. Unfortunately, we have a lot of that going on now too.
I think a lot of people in the southern parts of Rome probably never saw snow or ice and the irish did have human sacrifice but there is no evidence of cannibalism.
But there is proof that very early cultures in the Neolithic in europe did practice cannibalism but that was no longer a thing by the time the first proper civilisations started.
@@belstar1128 The "human sacrifice" was typically ritual killings of those who were considered criminals and deviants and such. It was possibly a form of primitive capital punishment.
@Crystal Dreams What? You do understand that cannibalism is still actively reported in Africa, right? LMFAO, mastered slavery - sell slaves to caucasians -- wait a few hundreds years -- blame caucasians -- completely disregard that every culture and people group ever has the same aspects of the past -- profit? A step by step guide to your stupidity. Between the years 1000-1300 (Undoubtedly much before) even, many African nations had enslaved 1/3 of their own population rofl
I believe Thule is pronounced " Too -leh ". And Pytheas is "Pith-ee-us".
Isn't Thule on Greenland?
I've always wondered how closely related the Iberians/celts were.
I suspect that the Welsh and Cornish are related to Gallic Celts, but Irish Celts were late invaders from Spain, who pushed the Picts into Ulster. I suspect this happened just before the Romans got to Britain. I read one historian speculate that Caesar’s tenth legion (Celts from Spain) remembered how poorly defended the island was, and went back after their retirement to set themselves up as kings. That would explain everything, including linguistics and DNA findings.
@@carolgebert7833
The Irish were Celts from Gaul.
The British - including the Welsh - were colonised by Anatolian farmers in the late Bronze age. (see: Mass Migrations in late Bronze Age), so their not really Celtic.
How little Ireland has changed in 2000 years.
@gary o'leary Not with Irish cooking.
The Thule description of a place where sea, land and mist are sometimes indistinguishable sounds like the Eastern Scandinavian coast to me; all those fjords and such.
Sounds like he was introduced to some good auld Irish humour.
This guy later reincarnated as Gerald of Wales
yeah - and he was a right basket to the Irish.
But it turns out the Welsh aren't really Celts, anyway!... - they were colonised by Anatolian famers in about 1000BC!
(see: Mass migrations to Britain in the Late Bronze Age).
Its the Irish who have the only Celtic country!
what if he was lied to just like many merchants did so that others wouldnt profit from the mines and trade routes to ireland
Thule maybe Hy-Brasil ??
wouldn't it have been submerged even by then though ?
I was thinking of that as well, but then also considered that it was most likely underwater around this time. With the spire poking out, like it does now.
Hy brasil is to the southwest of ireland. Thule is far north of Scotland
I’m still proud
Pounds it out in large store houses.
Well there are a few archaeologic findings from the british isles which suggest ritual cannibalism, and there are some weird old irish marriage cuatoms and exaggerated stories from mythology... so Strabo did not make these things up... he admits that his sources are uncertain, he just took the exaggerated and anecdotical for the common thing, which probably was not the case.Are we really better today?
Thule seems to be Iceland or Greenland.
Awfully strange things were always said about Ancient Ireland and Scotland. Whats even stranger is that the Romans sent expeditions to both regions and none ever came back! God knows what the Romans really thought about the unexplored areas of the Isles!
Hearsay, but less false news than today.
Didn't the vikings call the Inuit thule?
Damn leprechauns
More stuff on Ireland!!!
Ice... Trippy.
There was a lot more eating of people going on around the world than people like to think.
Could Thule described here be Greenland?
You should probably take a look at a globe and then come back and delete this comment
@@chigimonky you've got a point. ;)
Looking at the map of Thule, it looks like Iceland
More likely Orkney or the Shetlands. The Romans were mostly coastal sailors, getting to Iceland seems beyond what they were capable of.
It's true. We do eat people. 🙂😂😂
This is a very accurate description of Ireland
not at all actually alot is just baseless nonsense
"Concerning this island I have nothing to tell. Except that it's inhabitants drink and fight"
Yawwwwwwwn
Where is Thule?
Norway
Anti-Irish slander!