Review: Polyend PLAY PLUS // Is it worth the upgrade? // (and PLAY+ Synth Tutorial)
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
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Here's a link to my original review of Play:
► • POLYEND PLAY Review //...
TIMELINE:
0:00 Intro
1:15 Plus vs Play
3:10 Similarities
3:55 Synth UI
4:35 Connectivity
4:50 Upgrade path
5:10 Workflow
5:40 Synth basics
6:30 Slot params
8:20 Macros
10:45 Patch editor
12:00 ACD
14:55 FAT
16:45 VAP
19:55 WTFM
22:25 Fills & synths
24:05 Piano roll
24:25 Export
24:40 Delete unused
24:50 Custom fx
25:00 Pros & cons
31:00 Factory 1
31:30 Factory 2
32:05 Factory 3
32:50 Factory 4
Submit review and video ideas here (sorry I don’t offer 1x1 sessions/setup/purchasing advice):
► Ziv (at) loopopmusic.com
NOTE: Occasionally I’ll try out affiliate marketing and include affiliate links. This means that I may earn a commission when you click on or make purchases via affiliate links to stores like Amazon, Sweetwater, Thomann and others. The content of this clip is entirely my opinion, and was not paid for or dictated in any way by the company creating the gear. Without addressing the particulars of products shown here as they might be under NDA, gear shown on this channel may be either sent by the manufacturer, on loan for review or bought at a discount.
Really appreciate your exceptionally thorough reviews 🙏🖤
Glad this got USB multichannel audio, makes the Play so much more portable being able to hook this up directly to a iphone/ipad/mac and use those synth plugins via midi and record the Play audio through a single usb c cable and no extra audio interface or stereo cables in sight.
Perform mode and other cons will be fixed in the Polyend Play Plus Max coming out in 12 months.
Lol
No need to wait. Most cons are already fixed in the Deluge edition.
😂😂
Music companies be releasing minor “upgrades” like apple smh. I got hella trust issues now.
Same here . I think I am done buying anything Polyend
Polyend should have been better at communicating that they changed everything inside the Play and it's got a 500% faster CPU now.
@@0xbenediktcompared to what? Where would they even get a CPU 5 times slower than this in 2022? From the limitations it has, I would put it’s processing power subpar to a Raspberry, yet it’s 500% faster than it was before? (it’s $800)
Except you don’t loose half the value of your iPhone once there’s a new one.
In-depth as always, thank you for what you do!
Awesome video as usual, Ziv. Thanks for taking a deep look at the Play+!
Look at how Synthstrom handled the Deluge: same hardware for 6+ years, countless software upgrades, now software is open source. Finally did an oled screen upgrade but allowed all current owners to have their models upgraded. I'd rather send my money their way.
Very nice! I bought the Play a couple days ago. Can you imagine what I feel now?
Send it back for sure unless you got the big discount
@@harbourphotography2152 forgot to mention it was a used unit. Still was quite expensive tho, as there are not many options around here where I live.
thank you for your service 🙏
@@CuriousPassengerwell, it says that you can upgrade for the cost of shipping, plus $399 USD. Hope that helps!
bought mine 2 months ago...
Polyend, I hope you’re looking at this comments section, because you guys are dropping the ball.
Haters gonna hate...
This looks nice but $400 + $30 (Polyend shipping to you) + $30 (you shipping to Polyend), i.e. ~$460 to upgrade is a bit rough. If you bought the OG for $700 about 10 months ago or less (as I did mine, refurb), it stings a tad. For those who were not looking to upgrade to a subsequent Polyend product, or can't at $400, you probably won’t resell your OG for more than $300 to $400 if you are lucky. Alternatively, you would now have to shell an extra $400 for a total of $1100 to resell it as a Play+ down the road (for less than $800). That’s about 40% loss in value in less than a year either way. I don't doubt this was done with the best intentions by Polyend from an upgrade perspective, but I can see some OG users feeling... differently.
Now if you are cool with that industry practice, great, but I'm not sitting in a bucket of money that large that this is not going to inform future purchase decisions, or (more likely) make me stick to revision 2 for their new products -- your mileage may vary, obviously. Nobody forced me to adopt early, it's a *fun* product, and Polyend is going to do just fine either way. The trade up is a *convenient* feature, but who are you that you were going to dump a $800 machine down the trash and not try to pass it on locally or online? If it's the latter and you had a different company in mind next, then the resale hit is still significant over that short period of time.
If you want to have a discussion about recyclability, sustainability, or obsolescence, you can't conveniently wave off depreciation or total cost of ownership, especially if you can only afford a handful of gear at the same time. These arguments are compatible with having fun with your device too, one doesn't exclude the other. Telling people “it’s the same Play as the one you bought, you idiot, just enjoy it” is equally as constructive as telling people to keep enjoying their “same house” when the housing market collapsed in 2008.
Hindsight is 20/20, and my 2 cents are now worth 40% less, but this could possibly have gone a bit more smoothly if:
1) Polyend had discontinued the OG many months ago, or decreased its price to $500 way before this announcement (as a signal),
2) Polyend had communicated more details about the improvements to the hardware (to really hammer the point that this couldn't have been done in firmware). I only learned about interesting new features such as faster load times from the SD card through other, obscure channels.
3) The upgrade had been $0 if you bought an OG within one month, $200 within 3 months, and $300 after that (w/ shipping), but that's only my perceived value based on the info (or lack therefore) in 2).
4) Polyend had pushed (or announced) a firmware update for the OG Play at the same time, to appease those who think the OG had been neglected during the development of the Play+. Addressing promises that were made quite a long time ago would have been nice too, promises that were mentioned by the same YT reviewers back then and that may have been part of your purchase decision, such as getting the Performance mode to work with MIDI tracks, a feature that never materialized (and here we are again, 16 months later, with promises that the Performance mode will work with Synth tracks...).
...
23) Ideally, my own wish: a greater differentiator between the OG and the Play+, to better segment the two products, as opposed to an expensive incremental upgrade -- there is a $600 diff between the T.E. OP-1 and the OP-1 Field, for example, and the T.E. K.O. II was just announced at $299 versus the T.E. K.O. OG at $99. Not a massive delay in innovation just for the sake of waiting, but a better, meaner hardware with the same form factor. For example, maybe triple the on-board memory? If you own the OG Play, you know that it is very easy to run out of space, and that space has been halved in the Play+ now that it supports stereo samples (if I understand correctly). Slap a lot more memory, or the hardware needed to stream from the SD card (like the Deluge), or a mic (to sample), or make some keys pressure sensitive, and sell for $979 maybe?
UPDATE: Polyend stated: "if you bought Play a month ago and are angry, we understand that and can work something out with you, just please email us! - hello@polyend.com"
Yup.. and those of us who don't have either will benefit from used prices on the original... sorry.. but thx for selling!
Thats one of the reasons i only buy software these days.
I feel you. I bought mine yesterday for 550 used 😂 And today I could get one for 500 new. I think the update shouldn’t exceed the price difference of 300.
$200 would be more reasonable, especially for people who paid the original $799 retail. Hell, you could get an octatrack cheaper than that total
Over all, I think it is a great to discount the OG model. It is a great device and especially for the now 500 Bugs.
But for some wich try to get rid of their used ones these are bad news.
I love your breakdowns and walkthroughs. Thank you for what you do!
7:58 The gain staging on the Play is its biggest downside. It has no headroom at all, unlike any other groovebox. It's more like a traditional mixer. E.g. it helps to normalize your sample library to a much lower level (-12 to -9 dBFS) to avoid clipping in polyphonic playback.
Very impressed with the sound quality on these Polyend boxes.
Me not owning any of the products wondering if the upgrade is worth it
fax ✅
THIS
i was hoping there would be a new one, thanks for the review!
Hey mate, this release was seemingly timed to impact my decision making on what to purchase next! Thanks so much for your great reviews and demonstrations. I have one question, what do you use to display the waveform shapes, like an oscilloscope?
yeah I want to know about the oscilloscope they use, they are lots of software ones available, but the one they use seems really great, seems like a really asset with programming synth sounds!
Hi, I use MOscilloscope and MAnalyzer by a company called Melda - they’re free with some limitations in the MFreeFXBundle. Occasionally I’ll use scopes by VCV
This is becoming the killer groove box and sounds very nice but wonder why they didn't make use of all the knobs for patch edits. They could have included a third label on each knob where needed and have 30 standard synth adjustments that apply to all of the engines
we keep that idea for the Play++. But you will be able to upgrade your play+ for 250€
😂
The limitations simply do not justify the upgrade price and taking an approximate 40% hit to the resale value does not make me a happy Polyend customer. Kicking myself for not selling this device two months ago and putting the money towards a Digitakt.
the worst position you can be in regards to Polyend is a customer. Learned that the hard way when I owned a Tracker
Amen
I’ve been trying to sell mine for the past month. Had it listed at 400€ (half of what I paid for it 2 months ago) and no one wants it. I think I’m just gonna give it to my friends 12 year old daughter as I dont want to look at it any more.
You guys talking about this like it's your stock market portfolio, it's a toy guys 😂
@@Leo9ine fair point. But humans like to have a moan
Thanks Loopop! Very useful as always! I love the Play, when I bought mine I knew it was special, the Play+ is just what I could have asked for. Seeing many complaints, but honestly, I’d buy the Play all over again, and if I didn’t, I’d buy this Play+ and be super excited about what it’s become now!
Finally some positivity in the comments! Props to you.
I would love an updated review/overview of the new Deluge Community Firmware.
Yes please!
I'd guess the reason there basically aren't any yet is people are waiting for the first full release candidate. It's still in beta at the moment, I think for a few more weeks or so?
Did he mention the Deluge at all in this video? Was hoping for a comparison and his thoughts.
Good point! @@alexanderlane
I think he went over it in his review of the original Play. My impression is that the Deluge is more full featured in almost every way and is only missing the randomizer functions that the play sequencer has.@@aquaticborealis4877
I wish i'd watched this before doing the upgrade. That patch per project is a killer!
I'm upset with Polyend here. Where is Performance Mode for external MIDI instruments?!?! I bought OG Play for its OG capabilities and think it is an amazing groovebox/sequencer/instrument. But per Loopops review of the OG Play, stated at 53:18 in that video, I've been eagerly awaiting a firmware update that includes Performance Mode for external MIDI gear. I have little faith we'll see this feature in the OG Play now. I'm also not pleased with the cost ($400!!!) of this hardware update for OG Play customers.
These complaints aside, the new synths sound amazing. Mod matrix is always welcomed and super useful. The audio over USB-C capabilities would be much welcomed in my studio. But I won't be paying this exorbitant cost to upgrade. Disappointed in you Polyend... do better by your customers who have supported you in the past.
They posted performance mode for midi is coming soon for both the play and play+ on their msg board today.
The synth engines are a great addition but neither of the two patch editing methods seem to be optimal considering the amount of knobs and buttons that the device has. A better idea would have been to include a patch edit mode which displays a page with a bank of knob names and their settings (something like the Elektron boxes use). 3x5 might not fit on the display, but 3x4 for 12 knobs/parameters at a time would so much better than the current methods.
yeah there should be a smart way to use all the knobs for tweaking the synth in a special mode. And also allow you to tweak them with any device that sends midi CCs to them like a midi controller with many knobs.
@@radfaraflike the way maschine use the knobs. Always having new jobs.
we keep that idea for the Play++. But you will be able to upgrade your play+ for 250€
Ah the ability to sample would have made this a complete package 😢 still pretty interesting
Really want a tracker + with synths lol
400 dollars plus shipping to add some features the should have been on to begin with.
Well for a GPU you might be expected to pay $2000 to get some functionality when there is no hardware reason for it not working on your older card.
Here's a question: How easy is it to copy the work done on an internal synth channel and paste it onto a MIDI channel? So for example, using ACD on a track to get a melody going while on the go, and then copying it all over to a MIDI track to send out to a hardware synth when back in the studio?
It would be amazing if they offer these hardware upgrades for the OG Tracker!! And while they're at it: More sample time, and Audio via USB, ... !
Tracker + please
That's very cool. But I hardly can consider a groove box that can't sample nowadays 🙃
Buy it.. wait 2 years for firmware to support it…. Then pay another 400 For the Polyend Play ++
@@djcolinturnbull how could they without actual physical inputs ? 😅
@@alexandrosroussos maybe the Play ++ will have inputs ? 🤣 not sure if the usb audio can go both ways.. but I guess there is a possibility there.. but I will keep the box I have and just use it once in a while as rhythm generator or a midi sequencer.. I’m not even considering upgrading. And it’s not the cost… it’s the the whole way they went about it. Lying to your customers and then 1.5 years later releasing a + version. I’ll stick to hardware manufactures that release finished products 😀
@@djcolinturnbull you are wrong. Its comming on the +++ version, for another 400!
Lying?! How? They made a product with a set of features. YOU bought it. Now you're mad that there's a new version... because it came too soon? I honestly don't understand how you can be surprised or upset. Are you unfamiliar with how ... everything works? Plus, they're even giving you a trade-in option so you don't have to buy it at full price. @@djcolinturnbull
Sucks for everyone who bought the polyend play.
he mentions an upgrade path from play to play+ at 4:50
actually no it doesn't suck, when you understand you are limited to sharing MIDI tracks with synth engine tracks which is a total of 8.
I only want it as a sequencer, if you understand how powerful it is as a sequencer, then you will understand not everyone wants to use it as a groove box.
@@dankeplace I got it when it first came out. the performance features were really fun, sequencer was interesting but if I want a sequencer, id just get a sequencer, maybe an oxi one. I still think the most intuitive sequencer is on the Deluge and thats how I like my sequencers, straight forward, get to this note, do this. I dont really want it evolving or making itself. So I sold it after a few months. Wasnt my bag. BUT, the upgrade path doesnt sound awesome, just an option. Doesnt sound free either. And if you bought the original Play at the pandemic price, not the original price (I think it went up 100 bucks), again, sucks if you bought the original and have to come out your pocket for the upgrade. Agree, the sequencer is powerful if thats your thing, might have been a good direction to slim it down and release a sequencer. Polyend Seq:0
@@dankeplace facts!
@@hasan7786 They have a Polyend SEQ, I have one, 8 rows of 32, it wont do generative which is what I want.
Oxi One is $600 more here for me, the Deluge is twice the price.
There is just nothing on the market for the asking of the OG Play. Not for what I want within that $ range.
The Hapax is same asking as a Deluge but does much more than the Deluge.
Hey the Play might not even work for my intended purposes but I know of no sequencer at its $ range that will allow me to automate CCs and map CCs which is exactly what I want to do.
Hi, I'm new to Polyend. Does it make sense to insert Play+ into a HW setup where there are already other synths to sequence (Minilogue, Monologue, Microfreak, J6) or could it be convenient to take advantage of the drop price of the Play OG updated to the latest firmware?
I bought may Play 13 months ago, if I was to upgrade it would mean that a Polyend Play + would cost around £1100 excluding the return shipping costs. Not sure this will sit well with early adopters of Polyend Products and will make people think twice because the Play was only launched in June 2022, meaning that Polyend product lifespan is roughly 17 months before they launch a new version. £150 upgrade price would be fairer, or a variable upgrade price based on proving the purchase price and whether it was bought new or used.
Prockcrastenation paid off! I like Play+ a lot! 😊 Always great to visit a bible for your fave hardware at loopop’s!
I wish more companies would do like novation and enable synth programing via a larger screen like the Circuit Tracks.
its called a laptop :)
Thats the reason why I sold my Circuit Tracks. Everyone has different needs.
@@neonvoid Actually, it's nice to be able to do sound design when at the desk with a computer and the circuit, and to load up the circuit for standalone use. It your workflow mixes composition and sound design it's indeed not convenient, but if you do separate sound design sessions and composition/jamming sessions, then it is actually quite handy.
@@EricHanuise That's exactly why I like it. I only want to see the screen when I am programing it but also it's cheaper without the screen. lol
Could you clarify please: When you say people can get an "upgrade" on their original device, would this make said device have both machines' functions (ie. generative elements and new synths) or would it be a swap of one for the other?
The Play+ has all the features of the previous unit plus the new features. When you upgrade you send in your old Play unit for a discounted price.
@@radfarafAh, thanks. I just went back and rewatched, as I didn't think he said that. But it does seem, that is what he said. Appreciated.
i'm still pissed. the play isn't a finished product.. performance mode is still missing for MIDI and now there's a new model? this is a mess, polyend should slow down and finish their software before putting out new hardware.
Wow, I started the video thinking I wouldn't be interested, but adding the synth engines makes it so much more tempting.
already showing bugs 7 mins into the review, polyend just straight up sucks making any stable firmware
Polyend made a big shit for previous play users.Not a good move...
So, I’d like to know if its even possible (in the future) to have a 3rd page in the sequencer IE:
page1 8 sample lanes
page2 8 synth lanes
page3 8 midi lanes
Also I would love a more expanded FX section to allow for a few different project FX (not just master effect) to be assigned per track and per step for variations in FX parameters or at the very least LFO routing to parameters such as per track panning or per track wet/dry mix of a few different FX
Think Korg EMX-1
3 different FX freely assignable to any track….
Iwas exactly thinking the same. With a so deadly synth menu diving, why be scared put a 3page grid . Again cpu power lack? Same excuses? Shorter sample lenght ,same memory. No so huge upgrade. I keep my og play , and wait
Very weird to make souch "updates" even if the box looks the same. No connectivity upgrade though, where was very needed. Waiting for the Play Mk2 that will come next year maybe.
Well there is connectivity upgrades if you missed, pretty sue he said 28 tracks via USB.
@@dankeplace Not interesting enough for me. Though good to have. This would be better to have CV's for eurorack.
@@dualtrx CVs for sure, BUT you can get MIDI to CV cheap enough.
I have a Polyend SEQ, that is fantastic let down by stuff, Akai Force, wont even behave like a normal sequencer, then KSP, good, not great.
Find what's good and make some music.
They screenprinted a little +
Hello. Thank you for this review. I have a stupid question : can the capacitive knobs be used when wearing drummers gloves (with fingertips covered by gloves). Thank you
I think it depends on the thickness and type of material. I just tried through a t-shirt and it worked, but then I folded it a couple of times and it didn't. BTW you can still use it without the capacitive touch features (I sometimes disable them)
You have been my go-to for comparisons ever since I got into the world of DAW-less production and Grooveboxes. I am looking into stepping up my gear, and the Polyend Play/Plus is one of my options. Thank you for all of your tips and content.
One question: can either model natively export MIDI files into a DAW, so I can keep the information while changing the instrument? I saw a video with an online tool that provides a workaround (for the Tracker). Just curious. Thank you.
Thanks for the kind words! As far as I remember that option doesn't exist. Please ask the company to make sure and let us know back here if you can! Note that exporting MIDI from the sample tracks might not make sense because a lot of the magic is the generative stuff. MIDI from the MIDI tracks could be recorded live if an export option doesn't exist.
@@loopop *Update*
From Customer Support:
"Direct export of MIDI files is not implemented, however, you can transmit MIDI data into your DAW live by running a sequence from Play+.
There are currently no plans to implement a MIDI file export function."
Well, I'll just have to remake those loops I suppose.
Midi import, is that possible?
First loopop, you as always made a great video and thank you for it :) and the following is not to you, but polyend, so: this is a joke or? 400 euro to upgrade a price drop of 200 to 300 euro of the original unit? When you want the features anyone wanted from the beginning and upgrade you paid almost 1100 euro for the plus 🤦 the timeframe of the two release is simply to short that I don't feel scammed about it :(
Exactly what happened with Polyend Tracker > Mini, this is their business model. It's sad
@@connorcarbon I've got the Play and the tracker mini and one things for sure, I won't be buying Polyend again🤔🤔
This is a joke. 100% done with Polyend as a company. 0 trust after they devalue the original and then have the guts to ask for $400 to make it all better. Clearly they think we are all stupid.
@@quiquiqui420 Because digital signal processing takes processing power. There are limits. Something being digital doesn't make it unlimited.
@@iamjamessmith That's true, of course. But it is a funny limitation, though, that you will still need 4 Tracks for 4 voice chords?!!? Why is that? In the Deluge you can have chords with as many notes as you like and as many tracks as the processor is capable of handling. At least, they should have made it possible to use synth tracks polyphonically. Otherwise, the limitation is a bit ridiculous for a serious device.
It is a pity that there is no additional audio output to preview sound and tracks independently of the main output.
Can the old one be just upgraded with just replacing the Teensy to newer one and upgrading the firmware?
Thanks Ziv. The cover plates look different from the Play OG to Play+... is it just the camera or does the Play+ have a brushed metal look?
My pleasure - they seem the same to me
Hopefully these synth engines can make their way to the Tracker Mini!
thats why i got the m8 it has really good synth engines tracker mini more a sampler
No there will be a mini plus for that in a year or so
@@motoboy6666 probably right 😂
Tracker+
Hey loop, you said in the intro that you will do pros & cons vs competition but I guess you skipped the competition part. What would be the closest comletitor to Polyend+ now?
Pros and cons are always relative to the competition - I didn't mention specifics because there are so many flavors of grooveboxes these days, it's just about the preferred workflow. Examples are MPC One, Circuit, Digitakt, SH4d etc... I still think Play is quite special through, so on the generative and performance side, it differentiates quite well, though if you're ticking boxes, MPC would do more.
Hmm, when I read the email announcement earlier this AM I thought I might want to upgrade. Now I am not so sure.
never finish a product only to release a new one every year... I hate their way of working. They take us for pigeons😂
This should have been a FW update. Yes, Polyend offers "easy upgrade" but really, I don't think synths were much needed - rather, some Digitakt- like sampling in stereo would expand already powerful instrument greatly. I was using it as my main sequencer for a while, and with lots of external MIDI to cover, it is a bit of a drag to occupy MIDI channels with synths.
I'm guessing that the CPU in the Play+ is more potent, hence why it wasn't a firmware update.
Synth/MIDI tracks overlapping is nothing new or out of the norm for a workstation. If you prefer to avoid that, then it is time to go for an MPC One or settle for a Circuit of whatever kind suits your fancy.
@@Jason75913 i am not big on MPC, rather Hapax of Oxi bcs of the modular. I do sequence everything via elektron sequencers nowdays (and use Winter Eloquencer for sequencing modular). Now, as for the FW update, I am feeling a bit iffy there - they could’ve accounted for the cpu usage when the first Play was planned. I am no expert but these synth engines seem pretty light, honestly. Aside from the fact that I don’t think synth engines were what this box needed, rather, real time sampling is what would take it to the next level. I am sure most of the people going for Play (myself included) already have dedicated synths. Polyend did wonderful job with Medusa, I don’t think these synth engines work well with this UI, it is very rudimentary and menu-divy. Again, it works well on Tracker and wavetable and granular synth engines but those are different types of synths and also, tracker users expect stripped down UI (i never had a problem with those either).
so glad I waited, almost got the original yesterday .
Hydrasynth desktop + any cheap drum machine might be a better option for some. I've been a fan of polyend. I loved the tracker, what an original machine! Not sure about this, but hey, if it gets your creative flow moving, cool!
Hilo world! How well does multitracks audio streaming (for example to macbook m1) via usb-c work? Has anyone made experiences in that topic?
Thanks for another great and informative video 🙏🏻 For me you are the channel to go to when making a buy-or-not-to-buy decision 👍🏻 In this case it’s a no-go for me. Not because I don’t like the Plus, but because I’ve bought the OG (on its new, lower price point), using it as a hands-on, performance style MIDI sequencer. It’s great for quickly creating top-loops, creative beats and melodies using its samples, but also sequencing other gear. And, it seems the Plus cannot (re)sample and the new synths take up voices / tracks of the MIDI sequencer… so they are not added as an extra page / part, but they share a room with the MIDI sequencer. In my case it would loose it’s role as a sequencer for external gear.
Can you please make a review/instruction video for the polyend tracker mini?
I have to know if the 5th Analord sound patch @ 25:45 is from the aphex twin album!
Lovely machine...have you done any video on the DAW 3rd party oscilloscopes and spectrum analysers?
Thanks in advance.
Hi, no video - I use MOscilloscope and MAnalyzer by a company called Melda - they’re free with some limitations in the MFreeFXBundle. Occasionally I’ll use scopes by VCV
really loving the new "What The Fuck, Man" synth voice!
You really do a service to the community by going over every feature and limitation of gear... it helps people to know what they are being offered.
That said... (not that I am in the market for another device), but only having 3 mins of stereo samples, and no disk streaming to compensate is a big miss.
Yeahh he is a beast
Gosh, it's so pretty!
Are there any other midi hubs than RK006 you recommend. Plus only provides you with one TRS midi out.
Did I miss it or did you not cover how the multi channel audio IO via USB works? Can I plug in a class compliant interface, or is it only transferring multichannel audio to a computer?
Yes, I did cover the channel allocation, and no you can't plug in an audio interface, this acts as an audio interface as far as a computer is concerned
@@loopop ok gotcha. Thanks!
Meh all I want is an update with a slice mode an alternative keyboard mode to live play/record the individual samples in a folder.
An yeah little bit annoyed that they have destroyed my resale value they could have waited another year at least but whatever I’m still in love with OG
If they could add the ability to control all the synth parameters with midi CC that would be great!~
Can you turn off the retriggering on the control turns in synth editing? Maybe you mentioned it and I missed it.
yes, there's a setting
Can this trigger sounds from an external synth, if connected to it, without sampling the sounds????
See that? If only Novation would add some more voices to the Circuit...
I know, the second Circuit was a huge letdown! If they had doubled everything including the grid size I'd have bought version 2.
such a bummer. I would consider an upgrade, but it's a lot of money and it makes me wonder if they'll only do a couple firmware updates on the new one and then do a new, new one. might as well go to teenage engineering lol
This whole product could have been a firmware update.
I hate to vouch for manufacturers, but the new hardware is 500% more powerful. This was simply not possible.
@@0xbenedikt 5x less processing power compared to this is inexcueseable for a product that came out in 2022 for $800. Off the shelf SOCs could run fully featured DAWs for 50 bucks yet the Play was incapable of running a few simplistic synth engines?
Well there is no rule here. You décide if some gear suit your needs when you buy. Spécs where clear when play was released
can you play the synth live like you can on a Circuit? That's what I have been waiting for, but if you can't, its a strange update
yes you can
amazing, any chance of putting up a demo when you get a mo. @@loopop
@@LegPuppy I use the internal keyboard to play live when I demo the presets - you can also play them with an external controller
@@loopop ok cool, would be great to see a demo of u playing the internal keyboard, Im all for minimal kit. Hence why I have been waiting for this upgrade in ages
@@LegPuppy you can play the pads on the old version of Play too, but just to be clear, it’s not really a good performance layout since it’s sideways - it’s more for entering notes
Hi Loopop,
I'm a big fan of your videos and appreciate the unbiased approach you bring to your reviews. I've been following your content closely and even support your channel on Patreon because I believe in the value of unbiased reviews in our community.
As a Polyend Play owner and supporter of your channel, I was a bit disheartened watching your recent video on the Polyend Play+. The new features and improvements are certainly exciting, but I couldn't help but notice that there was little to no mention of the potential impact on early adopters like myself, who purchased the Polyend Play just a few months ago.
I revisited the video multiple times, specifically during the pros and cons section where you hinted at comparing the two versions to assess if the upgrade is worth it. However, that part seemed a bit rushed to me, and you quickly moved on to a wishlist for future updates.
Moreover, your mention of the former version being at a significant discount currently wasn't addressed in the context of early adopters. This discount is pointless to customers who already bought the initial version, and it adds to the frustration of those who recently invested in the Polyend Play.
I understand the need for your channel to stay current with new releases, but your credibility is what sets your content apart. In this particular video, I sensed a bit of bias, and it left me wishing for a more thorough exploration of the implications for existing Polyend Play owners.
Additionally, I wanted to draw attention to the upgrade path Polyend offered, which, for international users like myself (I'm based in Brazil), may involve complex logistics, time frames, costs, and taxes.
I continue to believe that your honest and unbiased reviews contribute immensely to the synth community, and I hope you continue to address both the positive aspects and potential drawbacks of the products you review.
Thank you for your time, and I look forward to your future content.
I'm a recent PP v1 buyer. I was disappointed about the upgrade path. But I also don't see a compelling reason to upgrade for $400 since I just got v1 recently. I'm fine, as is, for now. Maybe a firmware update will add some additional functionality. That will be a good compromise for me.
I'm a native English speaker and the subtext in how he talked in this video sounds to me like he's certainly not biased in favor of Polyend or this product. A couple moments in the video, you can hear he's wanting to be more critical than he is in the video. I think part of his job is to be a "good faith actor" for products and give them mostly-neutral objective delivery and demonstration. I think he sees the obvious here, that Polyend are abusing their customers, but to be fair that's not really something to address in a video like this, other than in the comments like we are all doing. I think it's more important we viewers be vocal about how disappointing Polyend has been, whereas Loopop's job is more to criticize what was sent to him, and serve as a place for us to talk our concerns out as a community
Very well said, thank you for sharing your perspective 💜
Definitely a bit disappointing. Wish he would mention the subpar quality of the hardware (especially how bad those knobs are) as well as just the quality of Polyend as a company
Hey, I really appreciate your support here and on Patreon, and the kind words.
In terms of bias, I went back and timed the pros and cons section - there are 45 seconds of "pros" vs 5 minutes (!) of cons (to me a "wishlist" is also a con, because it references things that one can reasonably expect from the competition), that alongside me pointing out bugs, interface compromises and missing features throughout the video. I also specifically mention that you should be cautious about promises for future firmware updates in general, and with Polyend specifically based on my past experience with their promise to add performance functionality to the MIDI mode.
In terms of impact on previous buyers - typically I don't mention it because it seems obvious to me that a company releasing a new version of something hurts the resale value of people who bought something previously - just like I didn't mention it in any other review of a MK2/MK3 I did in recent years (MPC One+, MPC Live II, Analog Heat, various keyboards, etc). I totally agree however, that here specifically the market expectation is that an MK2 doesn't come so soon after a MK1 with zero actual external physical differences - people are rightfully angry, as is very clear from this comment section, and I totally agree with the sentiment.
The regarding the upgrade path, I don't think that a company should be faulted for offering one, on the contrary, but here too I agree with people feeling that the cost is high, and you're right that for people outside countries where they have local refurb centers, there can be substantial additional costs (that applies for example to Deluge users too for example). On a side note, the challenge with making a pre-release video, is that there's no way to know for sure what pricing policies will be. I admit that I had a favorable view of their upgrade price because prior to making the video they told me the cost would be $199 for existing users and indeed a saw a $199 coupon offered by Benn but apparently that was, sadly, for a small number of units. I'm very disappointed that they're not offering the $199 price point for previous buyers hope they'll change their mind on that position.
You didn't mention it but I saw someone else say I didn't mention the quality of the knobs, I just wanted to say that I did address the issues with the touch capacitive sensing in the video (if you disable that the knobs are actually quite good IMHO), and the overall quality of Polyend's instruments seems quite good to me as well.
Anyway... yes for sure I see my viewers as my friends and would never intentionally hide anything from you - in particular I think my sentiment towards the upgrade policy would have been much less friendly if I knew they weren't going to stick to the $199 price for existing users.
Thanks again!
Polyend you messed up
Why so many limitations? Not worth the price to me.
OK Ziv got my new PE PLay yesterday, issues with previous unit.
So I am going through certain features and I have yet to understand how many CC values you can control on one step.
I cannot find this info anywhere and since I read the manual, I saw your name attached.
Do you know the actual number of CCs per step please?
I have asked the forum but never got an exacting answer.
Curious - where was my name attached...? Anyway, if I remember correctly, you've got 8 CCs per channel per step, so I guess if you really wanted you could do 64 on 8 different tracks/channels (note that I didn't test this...)
@@loopop If you go to their website, 1.4 manual, it thanks Benn Jordan and Ziv, I assume there is only one Ziv in the world, say it aint so?
8 CCs per step sounds good, you're the 1st to confirm re this.
I guess it has to do with the actual 8 encoders available in MIDI mode.
Thank you for your tireless work, I did re-watch this vid, fell asleep, there is so much info lol.
The MIDI section was extremely helpful though, things that are not fully explained in the manual and a vid explanation is much better to understand.
🙏
@@dankeplace ha yes not many Ziv’s around, certainly not in the synth world (though I do know one other!)
I'm interested in the Mini, which im sure will be trading hands for under $500 in a couole montha if not a few weeks. This woukd just annoy me of i bought a Play. I know theres an uograde path but shipping and mailing the device seems crazy consisering they coukd have just waited and made the product they intended to once seniconductors became more readily available.
But what do they do while they wait for three years? Pay their entire staff out of their savings? Companies need to make money constantly, especially smaller ones.
Hm, a comparison to the Deluge would be good. Don’t think that was in this video, was it?
No specific comparisons, just references to what's possible in other devices - for sure, Deluge, MPC, Maschine+, etc are all good alternatives
It's too different, I own both :)
The original Play OS - even after several updates - has a deal breaker issue and I suspect that it exists in the new version as well. When you grow the project to a bigger size the save and load time is impacted. So much that if you make a project with several rows of patterns the load and save time can be more than 45 minutes. This is a horrible bug that is easy to reproduce and any original owners of the Play can easily confirm it (and have.) Polyend confirmed the issue weeks ago in backstage and has still not solved the issue.
Try to use a bigger SD card. This could solve.
@@acaposotta the project has 4 samples. Thanks for trying.
@@MarkKunoff I see but it's not related to project size but mostly on SD card availabe space. :).
I have a 256 GB card and loading times are insane on this thing, maybe not 45 minutes but sometimes 5 to 10 minutes… really annoying
@@acaposotta Polyend has confirmed the issue and no solution yet.
Still no battery then for mobility.
Sample slicing would’ve been a good addition. I know the Tracker has it but I don’t want to use a Tracker
Man I asked for sample slicing on day one , the way it chops samples is ridiculous for 2023/24 but they wanted to still make money on the trackers I suppose.
ok, now polyend please add those synth engines also to tracker mini :-)
I woke up to see this in my feed and my initial reaction as a OG Play owner was - WTF? Im not sure we needed synth engines and i have to say the cons listed here make this a no go for me atm. There is a lot of clunkiness in the way the synths are implemented that just makes them feel a bit shoe horned in. Sharing the midi section is a bit odd as it seems like they should of / could of added a proper synth section so you are not having to sacrifice your midi lanes. Also no Perform mode for the synths is questionable as well. The audio over usb-C is nice but i feel like that could of been a firmware upgrade which i hope comes to the OG Play. I really would of liked to of seen a Play that can sample like the Tracker Mini with the mic and more onboard memory. ill wait for that version.
I fully agree. The synths seem to need a lot of menu diving, which goes against the agile workflow of the Play. I would rather connect an external synth with a keyboard to complement the sequencer with live jamming.
@@peeknic Yep. I own v1 and I see no strong reason to u/g right now. I just bought it so I'm happy as is. I'm sure there will a firmware update with something interesting.
Love the play. Feeling punished as a first adopter. Upgrade price is %50. 399 dollars. There are too many cons...i think the upgrade money would be better spent on a roland sh4d with audio going from play to the roland and the midi on the play controling the roland. Or a cobalt 5s definitely a better value. Feeling a bit underwhelmed watching the vid. Both on the sounds of the synths, their ease of use and accessibility and the restrctions they impose on the other aspects of the play... And still no arp... Or did i miss that. Good vid though. Thankyou
I'm waiting for the Play+ mk3 ultramax
Please tell me they've sent you the s-4!! I'm so curious, and it could be what I wanted from the Octatrack.
Not yet! I don't think it's ready, but seems like fun for sure
Should have been a firmware update really. If not possible on the original unit's hardware, you have to wonder why it was so underpowered considering the high price
"why it was so underpowered considering the high price" semi conductor shortage post COVID..
From what I've heard, that's exactly why it wasn't a firmware update, because the original CPU couldn't handle any more and that was the only CPU they could get in a timely manner during shortages to put into the original hardware version.
Same thing about the Polyend Tracker when if first dropped, allegedly it was supposed to be as powerful as the Tracker Mini ended up being. Polyend needs to "save up more money" to invest in more robust components to be able to boast more competitive features or they're gonna get left in the dust. 3 minutes of stereo sample memory? come onnnnnn
So glad i didn’t get a poly and get deluge. Deluge didn’t skimp out on anything for their customer base.
@@connorcarbon I don't think it was polyend fault, everything got disrupted by the shortage.. the dirty M8 was unavailable for the longest time for that reason.
Would it now be possible to record multitracks on Ableton? That would be great in comparison to the first model.
yes
@@loopop Thanks for the confirmation, need to finish your review already. Great content 👌🏻
Hi @@loopop! Just a quick question that I can't find information of, can I control Play+ with my Launchpad Pro MK3? Want to be able to play the sounds from the Play+ with the pads of my Launchpad if possible 👀
@@RenoFriends yes :)
@@loopop How?! Thanks so much for answering, I can't find information related 🥲
Get hose synths in the tracker next upgrade:)
The og tracker would probably have to be in a plus model with more processing power
The tracker mini on the other hand might see them and I hope they don
People who own the original: This is terrible! Should've been a firmware update.
People who don't own any Polyend groovebox: This is great! Finally it might be useful.
People who own a Tracker iteration: This should also be an update for my version of Tracker.
Or people like myself who like more features and got the original at a good price -- heck yeah! Already sent out my old one.
I won’t be upgrading! 😊
Yeah, I’m done with Polyend. I spent the last 10 months spending over $800 to be a beta tester for a device I will have to spend another $400 for to get a device that will address the limitations. Still no idea if the upgrade will even resolve all of the MIDI sync issues that still exist on the original. I don’t know if I have ever been more frustrated with a company. Buyer beware if you are considering them - I say this having experience with quite an array of synth/sampler hardware. I’d have to recommend Elektron devices at this price point (funny enough, I only dove into Elektron because of waiting for Polyend bugfixes and ended up falling in love because it was just stable).
Why did you do that? Why did you subject yourself to being a "beta tester" by buying a product you didn't want? That's a YOU problem.
The product was a final release and it is still an excellent product. How is that BETA?
@@harveytherobot Don’t be a jerk. Of course I wanted the product - unfortunately I’ve had nothing but problems with it due to MIDI sync/jitter and have gone back and forth with their team troubleshooting (and I’m not alone here - this is something many users have been facing if you’re active on forums). I’ve got a slew of other devices in the studio and nothing else has these MIDI issues. If you’re just using it as a standalone groovebox/toy, it’s fun, but if you’re trying to incorporate it into a serious studio workflow, it becomes a headache. I bought it to make music, not troubleshoot bugs.
I totally agree with you.
I hope the next version supports bluetooth for earbuds
OG Plays can now be had for sub $400 on Reverb.
Paid $700 for mine on Reverb in June.🤯🤯
I’ve only had the Play + for 24 hours, but so far, my initial thought is to sell it and get the Sample Version. The limitations on the synth tracks makes them pretty lame, but the sample and MIDI capabilities are pretty incredible. The only other feature that makes a big difference is the multitrack audio over USB, and I haven’t tested this yet.
I know everyone has a take here, but the thing that surprises me the most is Polyend’s choice to only wait a year after the OG to release the Play +, in a very unfinished state. I think if they’d waited another year to fully flush out the synth features (performance, editing, patch switching), then offered the same option to upgrade for original users, the response would have been radically different.
is there a song mode? (Im sorry if you went over this and I missed it)
I show it in the original video, the answer is sort of - you can chain patterns in a row
@@loopop do you think there is a chance they add it in a firmware update? I got rid of my OG PLAY because no synths (I use synths more than samples) and no Song Mode. Pattern chaining is cool but you can't save the chainsl I need something for a group I am in. It will sort of be a backing track for percussion and various sounds and synths but I need to save songs so I can easily start the track when playing live shows.
@@aariccallahan7371 what do you mean you can’t save the chain? The chain rows are saved with the project.
As I understand it, I can only use three patches for the entire project? And I can’t set up different synthesizer patches in different patterns?
As of the firmware of the making of this video you cannot
@@loopop Can you not export a synth as a stem and use it in the sample section?
@@rustknuckleirongut8107 sure, you can play a whole orchestra as a sample if you like
@@loopop I mean as a way to get around the "only three patches for the entire project" problem
@@rustknuckleirongut8107 yes I understand but that’s quite a limiting workaround since those tracks get frozen and you can’t change them
So many possibilities but out of all the limitations, not being able to change patches within a project is basically a dealbreaker if you want to use this for live sets using the internal synth engines. I really hope they add this since it doesn't seem like it would be that processor or memory intensive - it's just changing parameters.
Thoughts on this vs the deluge?
That's a two hour video... if you watch this, my OG Play video and my Deluge 3.0 video you'll know quite a bit
(though Deluge has been updated since) - but generally speaking, Deluge has way more features, Play is stronger on the generative side.
Are you going to do a EP K.O II video? 😍
Not short term - I have other things planned for the coming weeks and quite a few other people are covering it. I'll probably get to it at some point thought!
Something that is not made clear in the disclaimer: do you get to keep it?
No judgement, and I’m not saying this would influence a review. Just interested how it works
@@RichardJNeoyes, you can see the OG play in the video too