I grew up Protestant, attended a Baptist high school that taught Catholics weren't Christians, and I joined the Catholic church this last Sunday on Epiphany. In the last 6 months as I wrestled with this decision, read every scrap of theology on both sides of the divide, and spent a lot of time in prayer over the decision, I kept hearing my high school teachers' and friends' comments in my head. Thank you for this.
This "Catholics are not Christian" thing seems to be an American Protestantism fixation. Thank you Joe for the great tips handling this statements with our Christian charity.🙏🙏🙏
If you notice there is always a pattern with Americans and Elitism. The whole world revolves around them for some reason. Of course not all americans, and I love them as my bretheren in Christ.
@@glennlanham6309 same here, I've never detected a sense of love but rather disdain from the prots when they come up with the ridiculous assertion that Catholics are not Christian.
Absolutely. I went through this with my children 2000, USA Florida. I was flabbergasted. Also working in a medical clinic that year, an avalanche of Anti Catholic slurs from every corner after the Bishop Simons revelation. Very difficult to navigate through that vitriol here.
I think you are right about that. I don't entirely know why excepting it being such a breeding ground for low church varieties. There's a unique discontinuity with history among Americans in all aspects of life.
For a Protestant to ask this question to a Catholic is like a migrant who became a US citizen to ask someone who was born in the US whether he's an American. In other words - highly inappropriate.
But the "migrant's" ancestors lived in that same place for as many generations as the "citizen," in this example. I think the metaphor could use some work.
Unfortunately I used to claim that Catholics were probably not “saved”. Fast forward 30+ years after actually reading the official teachings of the church (catechisms & Vatican documents) and the Early Church Fathers everything began to unravel. Binged watched Shamless Popery, Council of Trent, Pints with Aquinas, Journey Home, etc…and I started to be concerned that I might be wrong. I then read a lot of CA books and couldn’t remain Protestant (Southern Baptist/Evangelical Free) any longer - Received into to the Catholic Church 1.5 years ago. ❤ Thank you for taking the time to make this video! God bless the work you do.
Welcome home! Your witness is much-needed for two groups: (1) Protestants who still hold to your earlier, ignorant, opinions; and (2) Catholics who are tempted to judge harshly the Protestants who naively hold to those opinions.
@@shamelesspopery Thank you for investing a lot of your time and effort into making this content available. You are undergirding the truth, especially where there are misconceptions or falsehood that are widely (and blindly) accepted. BTW: The Early Church Was The Catholic Church was instrumental in my conversion.
My mom asked me on Christmas Eve "Why would you want to be Catholic instead of Christian?" I didn't get offended or defensive I just told her Mom, it's the original Christianity!
@@DDickinson458 It's actually not. Catholicism is a bunch of lies and deceit. Tell me how could Peter be the first pope or Roman Catholic for that matter when Jesus was a Jew and all the first diciples and writers of the New Testament were Jews except Luke who was Greek.
I once heard a Lutheran pastor talk about crosses vs crucifixes. He said, “What is it about the crucifix that is so offensive to some? The same people who have no problem seeing baby Jesus depicted in a manger are deeply offended by seeing an adult Jesus hanging on a cross. They say, ‘Well, he isn’t on the cross anymore.’ But, he isn’t in the manger, either. It must be Jesus’ sacrifice in and of itself that offends them.” I really liked that logic. I used it on my Baptist parents a while back and they both clutched their pearls. 😂
My experience ( as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), has always primarily been focused on the Resurrected Christ (He Lives!), as well as a lesser degree the Garden of Gethsemane, where he took upon himself all of our sins. The Cross was an important, but intermediate step in the whole process.
Well I think it was Joe who said “an empty cross is completely pointless. All crosses end up empty. It’s the empty tomb that’s important.” I personally feel like there’s something VERY suspect for Catholics in the empty cross. It’s kind of creepy, like what in the world is worthwhile about the cross alone except for Jesus’s sacrifice on it? Lots of people died on crosses. It’s only what Jesus did that saves. And maybe it highlights a key difference between us - Jesus suffers for us in order to call us to imitate his self-sacrifices, whereas Protestants usually don’t have a very developed sense of the point of Jesus’s suffering and the salvific potential of their own sufferings in this world. I think in my own family I see this when they suffer, it seems pointless to them.
When I converted, that’s what my family were worried about (that Catholics aren’t Christian) and that’s what my wife was taught to believe (as a Southern Baptist). In fact, when I converted my MIL cried to my SIL that we were not going to be able to celebrate birthdays or holidays anymore. As if we were becoming Jehovah’s Witness lol
Haha wonder how your MIL would have reacted this past week where a lot of my church’s members wished our priest ‘Happy Birthday,’ gave him gifts, and invited him out to dinner to celebrate 😂 Not to mention the big holidays we celebrate like Christmas, Easter, etc are Catholic days 😂
@ Yeah, it led to a conversation where I had to break it to her: You know Baptists didn’t celebrate Christmas or Easter till after the Civil War because they were “Catholic” holidays, right?
When I converted, and told my family…my sister in law straight up said “I know some Catholics that are Christian.” I sat in silence…. Just didn’t have words. Thank you for this.
The “c” in catholic in your citation should be lowercased. Ignatius lived in a time when that word referred to anyone who is a Christian, which was his point of you look at the entire chapter.
@ 1) I’m a Patristics scholar and read Ignatius in his own words without the English language barrier. So heed my words and consider me when I say my next points: My distinction make sense in the modern era as there was no East-West split or approximation of it during Ignatius’s time, there was nothing even close to a doctrine of transubstantiation for the Eucharist (Roman Catholic scholars have openly admitted this for over 100 years), and Ignatius’s gospel of salvation more aligns and approximates the modern Protestant presentation (by design since Ignatius has been one of the Church Fathers most favored by the Protestant leaders) than it does the current system of indulgences and distinctions between mortal and venial sins and the lack of distinctions between justification and sanctification that Rome currently promotes.
@@KMANelPADRINO when you say there was "nothing even close to a doctrine of transubstantiation" is that because you don't read anyone talking about it? Or because you read things contrary to the doctrine?
I am a Protestant who has recently been exploring Catholicism, and I have been presently surprised. The Catholics are in my view absolutely brothers and sisters in Christ. Protestants and Catholics are aligned on the central doctrines and theology.
Asking if a Catholic is a Christian is a bit like asking if Superman is a superhero. Well considering we Catholics are the first and only true Christians the answer is yes.
Yeah ... but many protestants are just so ignorant of what Catholicism is, they come to crazy conclusions (like "Catholics worship Mary", "Catholics aren't christian", etc.). Moreover, there are lots of protestant leaders that are more than happy to pour gas on the fire of these misunderstandings.
Which Superman? The one who looks exactly like the good one but does wrong or the one who only does good and how do you tell the difference if you have no other information? You don't get to be insulted by the ignorance of others. You also don't have to be insulted by someone trying to insult you.
Twenty years ago an evangelical protestant friend told me he didn't think I was a Christian and thus, not saved. Ten years later he said he thought I WAS a Christian and saved! I thanked him for letting me know. LOL.
My wife and I are converting from Pentecostal to Catholic, we asked god what should we do before we came to this conclusion. God imprinted a heart in the fog on our window next to my wife's rosary as a sign and answer. (: I will say this, there is a lot of focus on "you" in most Protestant churches in America, in Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy it is almost completely a focus on "him" (Jesus) and completely submitting to him and authorities in the church- which is very uncomfortable for the average American like myself. Having your own opinion and interpretation within it is not accepted, which is completely against what our Western culture promotes in regards to relativism- the doctrine that knowledge, truth, and morality exist in relation to culture, society, or historical context, and are not absolute. It hurt my pride and individuality to humble myself before mortal men in the church, but I realized how can I truly humble myself before God Almighty if I can't even kiss the hand and cross of a priest who loves him more than me.
@dand4485 God loved the world so much that he sent A BOOK! No. The Incarnate Word dwelt among us in the flesh. Incidentally, the flesh from The Blessed Virgin Mary. Ever Blessed, Ever Virgin, Sinless (Immaculate), Holy Mother of God. I guess you Protestants have all fainted dead away.
My wife is still Nazarene and a board member so I attended a Nazarene Church every week. This is very useful! I heard Catholics aren’t Christian just a few weeks ago!
As a Protestant, I lived in my own bubble and did not associate with Catholics. The premise of my thinking was logical. If a Catholic were a true Christian, then he would have the Holy Spirit to guide him into all truth (as the Scriptures say) and therefore he would not be able to persist in such heinous sins and errors as breaking the Ten Commandments, i.e. making statues and images which bowing. He could not pray to Mary and the saints, because one can only pray to God and talking to the dead is necromancy (i.e. they actually have contact with demons). But then I had a sincere conversation with a deeply religious Catholic. I did not argue with her, we just talked about her faith, etc. And during that conversation I felt with certainty in her that she had the same Holy Spirit as I did. I was very confused. But I had to admit that I was wrong and she is truly a Christian despite her errors. I came to the conclusion that God is loving and just and values a pure heart and so forgives even those (unforgivable) sins. Three years ago I met a nun. She just opened the door to the monastery (where the ecumenical spiritual retreats were held). It took me two seconds to look into the eyes of this nun (who said nothing to me except greeting) and all my prejudices collapsed. Because I perceived a person who was vastly superior to me spiritually. When one is full of God, he does not even need to speak and is more convincing than many rational arguments. Saint Francis said - "Preach the Gospel wherever you go, if it cannot be done otherwise, then with words". Today I am a Catholic. Yes, before I made my decision, I read the catechism, etc., but in the beginning there was the experience of meeting Catholics who lived devotedly to Jesus.
American evangelical Protestantism is what I call Dick Clark Christianity.”It has a good beat and it’s easy to dance to.“🤷♂️ That may go over a lot of heads sorry lol Seriously though, what pushed me into The Catholic Church is that I couldn’t believe that Jesus started a church and got it wrong for 1500 years until Mr Luther fixed it! If that were true? Christianity would be a fiction.
Unfortunately, our Protestant friends believe our Lord waited 1500 years to give his followers the “true” doctrine of sola scriptora. So we are to believe that Our Lord lead his followers on a wild goose chase until he sends the prophet Luther?
@@Catholicmom2567sorry, it’s just not true, we look to the church fathers, church history all the way back to the beginning! What you’re doing is only a caricature of Protestants….
Pretty much sums up the protestant position. Holy Spirit was silent for neary 1500 years, which is why many protestants think catholics are not christian.
I do not think people grapple with this enough. Why is Luther able to get it right for 500 years, in a clear and forthright way, but Jesus and the apostles couldn’t? Why did Jesus fail and Ellen Gould White succeeded? Why did Jesus abandon his church? He could have sent the Holy Spirit to lead his church, or he could have sent the Holy Spirit to lead each believer so they all agree on the truth, but instead he just left the whole thing alone to get into a huge mess that only Calvin or Joseph Smith or whoever could sort out for him. That’s a breathtaking claim.
Great reply! I have learned in general that if anyone were to say anything negative about me, the best thing to say is to ask, "What do you mean?" A lot of times, they do not know what to say in response. They did not expect that.
I will never be considered Christian by my mom. While crying she told me I am already dead (spiritually) and when I go to hell it's really going to hurt, and to "please read your bible." Honestly, she doesn't know a single thing about Catholicism. She has this problem because "people bow down to the pope and kiss his rings" and "popes claim to talk to God." It's a very confusing culture shock to her. She thought she would be able to find out why I believe I can do these things if she read "the apocrypha" but she can't find where it says we can do that. I have no idea where to even begin with her. It's very draining to know she feels this way about her daughter. I wouldn't want to feel this way about my children either.
Sorry to hear about all of that with your mom. If anything, at least it’s encouraging that she loves you enough to worry about you and your eternal soul. Some parents barely care what their kids do next month, let alone drive themselves in worry that their kids are heading towards the bad place. Honestly, she’s like St. Monica in the sense of worrying about her child and praying constantly for them to give themselves to God. Which is a good start, even if it comes from a place of gross misunderstanding. In that vein, the best thing you can do is pray for her to God as well and that y’all continue to have some relationship with each other. If it’s too toxic and terrible, then by all means limit contact but make sure she knows it’s not because of actual Catholic teaching as that can sour her perception more. Explain that you two just aren’t bringing out the best in each other at the moment and you want to save what’s left before it also breaks. Maybe that will help her see how her own behavior is causing more confusion and chaos between you two, or she’ll double down on her prejudice towards the Church. Either way, you can only do so much and ultimately it’s up to your mother whether she lets the Holy Spirit lead her the right way or not. St. Monica is a good Saint for family members who worry about their loved ones, and there’s many more you can ask their intercession for. On a day to day level, live your faith well. If all your mom knows about the faith is whatever propaganda she sees or reads, then just calmly live out what the reality is. Don’t be afraid to tell her stories about the Catholics you know, invite her to events like bingo nights, dinners, gatherings, etc so she sees Catholics are just normal people. Let her mind see Catholics not as spiritually dead heathens, but her fellow brothers and sisters living their lives to the fullest of God’s will for them. Ideas are easy to twist and hate, much harder to do the same when one interacts with someone face to face. Hope this helps and I’ll be praying for y’all 😇🙏
@@jendoe9436 thank you so much, your prayers mean so much to me. Unfortunately I think she would see being invited to anything Catholic as a statement that Catholicism is ok and she doesn't take her faith seriously. It's the mindset of many of the people and elders at the Church of Christ.
St. Ignatius of Antioch says if you don't receive the eucharist, you're not Christian. Do learned from John. So I've started saying protestants aren't Christian. 😂
@@waterwarrior242 According to Pope St Pius XII in his encyclical Mystici Corpus Christi, Protestants are not Christians. They profess a different religion. Read paragraph 22, Pius XII couldn’t be more clear
15:45 Whenever I encounter a Protestant fixation that I cannot get around, I just find an opposing interpretation of that same fixation by another Protestant denomination and bring it up and ask whether they are not true Christians either. Slowly and slowly, they end up isolating themselves. Edit: Probably should have waited to comment since an example of this was brought up a minute later.
And I don't consider Calvinists to be Christian at all. Catholics are much closer to be Christians, if I overlooked whatever they did in the Dark Age such as buying your tickets to heaven. And of course the one boy policy for their Priests. I will never consider idols worshippers to be Christians. It is that simple for me, only God knows in their heart who each of us is praying to. You can tell me whatever they want when they kneel in front of that woman statue or some dead people!
The 'Are Catholics Christian?' question is a recent phenomenon. A few years ago everyone knew Catholics and Protestants were both Christian. However, due to the growth of non-denominational Christians these folks do not identify as 'Protestant' because they eschew attachments to any Protestant denominational traditions. They think they're orthodox because they prefer to think of themselves as 'Bible Christians', and because they can't see Catholicism in the Bible, they wrongly conclude that it's false.
@@vinciblegaming6817 You are correct. When we converted in 1992, my wife contacted the Baptist church she grew up in for her baptismal record. A snark filled letter followed saying that they do not provide that information for people "leaving the faith". Our priest said that was good enough confirmation thinking that they would have said she was never baptized if she hadn't been.
@@bryanforeman4144 Talk about being spiteful. He did not have the ability to recognize that spite, especially spiteful action, is antithetical to Christianity. There is also the concept of false witness which also applies to withholding true witness.
Luckily, this is an American problem only. As a cradle Catholic from Nigeria, I was shocked and confused the first time I was asked this question in America.
I suspect that for Protestants, the question "are Catholics Christian?" is very closely related to the question "are Catholics saved?" or in the more general case "what do you need to believe to be saved?" It seems unlikely that if you think Catholic and protestant beliefs/practices are minor enough that Catholics are saved just like protestants are, that you'd have a reason to say "Catholics aren't Christian." That's the thing we all really care about, not what conceptual label we stick on different groups of people. It seems to me that "Catholics aren't Christians" is a way for a protestant to state that they think Catholics are all/almost all going to hell while trying to sidestep questions about what actual doctrinal positions they think are damnable.
I’ve been a Protestant my entire life. Over the past six months I’ve been learning a lot of Protestants turning to a movement called Torahism. Sometimes called Torahism or Hebrew roots. I’ve watched your videos now for a couple months and those of Trent Horn and wow am I blow away. I may have to convert soon. I don’t try to debate but when I find this conspiracy videos of the pope opening up a portal, I explain to some of the more reasonable of the commenters that it was Christmas Mass and the door opening kicking off Jubilee and there was no harm done to any portals.
***Wonderful observations! I vividly remember the personal testimony of a man who was about to be received into the Church, a few weeks before Easter, five years ago. He noted: "Once I stopped throwing up the same old objections and simply fell on Catholic teachings, naked as on a sword, the most shocking thing happened: IT opened up!" Follow the Lamb, wherever He leads. All will be well. I promise to include you in my daily prayers. Please pray for me, also. +Peace+ ***
" I may have to convert soon" Great! Nothing better than receiving Jesus in the Eucharist, a means for receiving his grace. High recommend watching Dr Brant Pitre's parish talk, available on youtube, _Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist._
Confessional Lutheran here, In my experience and being confirmed in the LCMS, it was surprising in college to hear the question thrown around "Are Catholics Christian?" in protestant circles(honestly still is). We Lutherans have our disagreements, but we never thought Roman Catholics weren't Christians for obvious reasons. My lovely girlfriend is Roman Catholic, but was raised Nondenom/Baptist until only a few years ago now. Since her conversion, her family responded very negatively to it, but thankfully that has improved recently. I am hoping they grow in understanding of her tradition as I have been. Your videos are really great for my own study of Roman Catholicism, and appreciate all that you do for Christianity! God bless, my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters!
Defining yourself as “Protestant” is embarrassing; no one wants to be defined primarily as “against” something else. That’s probably why “nondenominational” is becoming such a popular label, too; it’s an acknowledgement that Protestant is inherently factional, and (at least in practice through history) has destroyed the global unity of the Church and created Atheism. I would bet “Christian” is their attempt to make a new label they can rally under while still letting them excluding Catholics; classic “younger brother” behavior
Thoughts on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? The Chrurch Christ established, Restored, with a Living Prophet and Apostles and continuing the pattern of Revelation? (As far as I know, the only church to have such)
@ with respect, i see no reason to take their claims more seriously than other Protestant groups. The LDS was also founded on the idea that the Church Jesus established failed, and thus needed to be “restored”, but their attempt at restoration lead to multiple divisions and sub-groups even within the life of the founder. My opinion: Either Jesus’ Church is as reliable today as it was when it was founded by Himself, or it is not worth taking seriously. If it needed to be “restored”, then it was illegitimate from the start, rightfully failed, and any “restored” version will only fail again. Why should we think a “new Church of Jesus” will be stronger and more stable than the one founded by Actual Jesus Himself?
@@GldnClaw with respect, i see no reason to take their claims more seriously than other Protestant groups. The LDS was also founded on the idea that the Church Jesus established failed, and thus needed to be “restored”, but their attempt at restoration lead to multiple divisions and sub-groups even within the life of the founder. My opinion: Either Jesus’ Church is as reliable today as it was when it was founded by Himself, or it is not worth taking seriously. If it needed to be “restored”, then it was illegitimate from the start, rightfully failed, and any “restored” version will only fail again. Why should we believe that not-Jesus “restoring” a failed church would be better than Jesus building His Church?
@@GldnClaw with respect, i see no reason to take their claims more seriously than other Protestant groups. The LDS was also founded on the idea that the Church Jesus established failed, and thus needed to be “restored”, but their attempt at restoration lead to multiple divisions and sub-groups even within the life of the founder. My opinion: Either Jesus’ Church is as reliable today as it was when it was founded by Himself, or it is not worth taking seriously. If it needed to be “restored”, then it was illegitimate from the start, rightfully failed, and any “restored” version will only fail again. Why should we believe not-Jesus “restoring” a Church would be more successful than Jesus establishing a church we think failed?
@@GldnClaw with respect, i see no reason to take their claims more seriously than other Protestant groups. The LDS was also founded on the idea that the Church Jesus established failed, and thus needed to be “restored”, but their attempt at restoration lead to multiple divisions and sub-groups even within the life of the founder. My opinion: Either Jesus’ Church is as reliable today as it was when it was founded by Himself, or it is not worth taking seriously. If it needed to be “restored”, then it was illegitimate from the start, rightfully failed, and any “restored” version will only fail again. Why should we believe not-Jesus “restoring” a Church would be more successful than Jesus establishing a church we think failed?
I've noticed this also. They have a fixation . Like seventh days Adventist are obsessed with the 7th day and dietary laws. The faith alone thing really drives me crazy. It literally says not by faith alone in James and also 1corinthians 13 says you can have all the faith in the world but it won't profit you anything without love
Our Protestant friends like to say the reason for the 'empty cross' is Christ rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. That is true, but not from the Cross. Christ rose from the tomb. If they were true to their stated convictions they would all decorate their churches with empty tombs. The reason the Cross became bare was because Our Lord was cut down from it, bloody and broken. That is what we should all see when we see an empty Cross: the price paid. Just my $.02.
The empty cross symbolizes the completed work of Christ-His death for our sins and His victory through the resurrection. While He rose from the tomb, the cross remains central because it represents both the price paid and the triumph over sin and death. The empty cross points to the living Savior, not just the suffering sacrifice.
@@rebuildspirit Then what makes that particular empty cross any different from the ones next to it (or any cross used for criminals in a Roman crucifixion)?
@@NuLeif What makes that empty cross different is not the physical object but the one who hung on it. Jesus' sacrifice transformed the cross from a tool of shame into a symbol of salvation. His victory over sin and death gives that empty cross eternal significance-it represents the redemption accomplished uniquely through Him.
34:04 i mean technically the vulgate was a translation into the common language. And a lot of those languages were still developing. Like English really didn't stabilize until the 16th century, I've read that several Bible translations were underway for Old English and then were sort of abandoned because the language basically changed so rapidly.
Correct, St Jerome's translation was literally the Everyman Translation for the Vulgar(common) tongue of the Empire. The "common man" would have heard the Scriptures in his own language (LATIN) since the 4th century! Latin only fell into disuse as the empire crumbled and evaporated. Furthermore, translating the Bible into English, French, German, etc. was largely unnecessary: >95% of the population were entirely illiterate and books themselves were ENORMOUSLY expensive to produce, maintain, distribute and own. Pretending that Luther's (ABRIDGED, lol) Bible "sparked" the Reformation is asinine and flat wrong.
@@rangefinderz5135 I like what you say about the Vulgate, but we can go further back -- Jesus spoke in Aramaic with His followers from Gallilee, and tradition has it that Matthew originally wrote in Aramaic. But immediately after Pentecost, we have Greek-speaking Christians (Acts 6). Like the Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 9), they were probably reading the Greek Scriptures -- the Septuagint. And Mark, the secretary of Peter, wrote the Gospel of Jesus in Koine Greek, so that all the Roman Empire could understand. And Matthew re-wrote his Gospel in Greek. And all the rest of the New Testament comes down to us in Greek. Because that was the language everyone who could read, did read.
Thank You for this video. I needed to hear this. As Catholic myself, I have heard people say: "Christians and Catholics". How can THE FIRST CHRISTIAN RELIGION NOT BE CHRISTIAN?
@@Maranatha99 Catholic means universal. They might say catholic because it translates as the universal church of Christ. That is the historical meaning. It is about unity.
This is a much needed lesson. My middle school aged daughter in 2000 was told Catholics aren't Christian after her confirmation. This is USA, Florida. 🙏 for our children.
As a Protestant ( who is becoming more Catholic with each video) I'm always stunned when I hear the " Catholics aren't Christians " claim. It's impossible to go to Mass and NOT see fundamental , basic Christianity throughout the liturgy. Especially in the Eucharist and the reciting of the Creed. Love your videos , keep them coming .... God bless you , Joe !!!!!
That’s a very USA thing. I am from a country in Latin America and nobody would ever ask that cause is stupid. I find those Protestants in a bubble and i think they need to ask questions as to why they believe why they believe.
Same here in Europe. Same in Africa. Same in the rest of the world actually. It really is an American thing. Makes sense considering the American mindset and culture
what often frustrates me more than this question is the statement: "there are probably some Catholics who are Christians, but only the ones who don't really know Catholicism or who believe the Bible instead of Catholic teachings." Really grinds my gears
As a new convert to the Catholic church, I really done care what any protestant have to say, because all their churches are man made established, and doesn't have the fullness of truth.
We have the truths of the Bible- we have the truth God had spoken and that is all we need. Anything extra are man made additions or subtractions in some cases and not of God. We do not add to the Gospel it- genuine a reformed churches anyway. We do not add to Jesus Christ. So instead of delighting in all the Roman Catholic extras - you should be ditching them for the sake of your soul! Paul said if you add anything to the Gospel it is then made invalid! He also says believing in anything other than Jesus Christ alone as for your salvation makes Jesus if no use to you. So please consider your situation. And I do not say this out of malice but concern - as Joe suggested!
@@mikekayanderson408 I understand that you feel driven to save those who are unsaved. But. Do you think that these people you are addressing here, who were raised as you were, and have had to learn that they were misled when they believed as you do now -- do you think that you are presenting anything new to them? Converts to the Catholic Church were brought up just as you were. They have come to believe that they are most faithful to following Jesus by taking this tremendous step.
I was getting to know this girl and when she asked if I was religious she immediately asked if I was "Christian or Catholic" which caught me so off-guard I knew hardcore atheists online would say this but the everyday person? wild
I regularly hear my non-Catholic friends and extended family use phrases like "what's the difference between Catholicisim and Christianity" or "Are you Catholic or Christian". I no longer am offended by this language, because I know they are not being malicious, but I do gently correct them.
I have delineated between Christians and Catholics when I was younger because I thought THEY preferred it... I thought I was being respectful 😅 I never thought Catholics WEREN'T Christian, though. It took me a minute.
My family has always been Catholic. Parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., we’ve always been Catholics. My sister considered herself a very devout Catholic all her life, but in truth, I think it’s clear she was not as well informed as she should have been about the faith because when confronted with a personal challenge in her life where she had a problem with Catholic teaching, she left the church. She became an evangelical Baptist. She and I go round and round on points of faith where I correct her on Catholic teaching. Her response is always, “That’s not right, I’ve never heard that”, when it’s right in the Catechism. At one point she told me that she asked her pastor if Catholics are saved. She has also made outlandish claims about whatCatholics believe. Each time I say, “ You know better than that”. You know that’s not true, why would you even say such things?” She counters with weak answers implying that her understanding of the issue is what most people think. I get very angry inside. I try not to let it boil over into the conversation, but I cannot debate her on any point because for her Catholics are just wrong and she does not even concede that our understanding of scripture has any validity at all. She believes many vile and ignorant falsehoods about the Church. I love my sister but it saddens me. It’s tough to always have to defend the Church to people who have never known the Church. It’s heartbreaking to have to do it with someone who should know better and is relying on what others have told her instead of discovering the truth for herself.
I say this with love but it's pride, she's being prideful and like most protestants likes that she can make up the rules to fit her vices (maybe not your sister exactly but most prots I find this to be true) protestantism was founded on the sin of pride "I know better" my advice is pray and make sacrifices for her reversion and I'd stop discussing it with her, point her to books or UA-cam videos just be her loving devout catholic sister.
@ thank you for your comments. I know my sister loves God deeply. I think perhaps that you are right about pride when this began. I think now she sincerely believes what she professes. Your advice is very sound and I agree that it’s better than directly challenging her. Sometimes those closest to you are the ones farthest to reach. Thank you and God bless you.
"Don't debate the finer points" is the best advice, and I give it all the time. I like to tell people to focus on "What is Scripture". How do you know? Where did it come from? Why is X Scripture and Y not Scripture? Epistemology is where the protestant must make the most assumptions and it generally reveals that they are assuming their own conclusions, rather than assuming something more simple like minimal historical facts.
Scripture: Any message, whether written or spoken, that comes from God to man by the power of the Holy Ghost is scripture. How do you Know? I currently use the Hansen 5 model (intuition, sensory experience, reason, moral outcomes, authority). Where did it come from? The Prophets since Adam and is currently ongoing. Why is X scripture and not Y? Using the Hansen 5 model, I've determined the validity of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the Pattern of validity that has been established. Using that, in addition to the Canon, the Apocrypha (and littl 'a' apocrypha) has concordance with LDS Doctrine, but a lot has also been garbled. Hope that helps.
The historical argument is one that won me over about eight years ago. My argument back then was that medieval scribes forged everything to erase the true history of Christianity. It was a great argument if one is ignorant of known history…and trash if one looks into it for more than an hour on Google. And please let the “Joeism phallacy” become a respected term 😂
I am a protestant.. I have no doubt that Catholics are Christians. The crazy thing is that this accusation came from a Calvinist. I've always questioned whether Calvinists are Christians. Calvinists deny that Christ died for all and that salvation is available to all. Calvinists believe that God is arbitrary, unknowable, and unapproachable. That's an entirely different God listen to the one which I believe is presented in the bible.
I was raised SBC... conversations with my reformed friends lead me to the Church. I was raised with the position closer to Leighton Flowers takes. It all comes down to a question of final authority. Neither one of us had any authority to say who was right or wrong. Dwell on it long enough and the matter is unescapable.... we must have an authority above our own personal interpretation. You then try to apply this to your pastor, your denomination, and then your own specific theological framework (Reformed, Arminian, etc)... It doesn't hold up to the question of a final authority within the Protestant framework.
Most of these conversations ended with whether the topic was primary, secondary, or a tertiary issue... who gets to decide where it falls? Then you get to start all over!! 😅🤪
@@benjaminshirley Right. I agree. However, the Roman Catholic formulation of the Church's authority doesn't convince me. That's my problem. I believe that the Church had authority, but previous politicization and corruption has destroyed that formulation. I don't believe that the Roman Catholic Church possesses the legitimate authority it claims.
@@brushylake4606 Pretty reasonable concern. It happens all the time to man made institutions, after all. I really encourage you to look into church history. There is a historical record, writings of the earliest Christians, secular sources, etc. and it can be understood. I think a lot of people assume it was lost (not saying you're making that claim) and never try to investigate it. One point that I appreciate Joe for making about this topic is that if the Catholic Church was corrupted, we should be able to point to that corruption, based on the historical record. May God guide you to the truth!
The sheer discourtesy of it... How it pains me that responding with equal love, making a concerned expression and calling them forsaken heretics doesn't work...
Lutherans, Presbyterians, Church of England, Episcopalians, and Methodists all accept and use the Apostle's Creed and Nicene Creed which originated in the Catholic Church. Does this mean that all of these are also NOT Christians??
The underlying question should be, can we trust Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Catholics do. Prots seem to believe they failed to guide the Church as promised.
So - did the Holy Spirit lead the Roman Catholic to teach false doctrines that are Diametrically opposed to what the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to write down in Scripture! I think not! So if you trust in Jesus Christ why do you add false additions to the Gospel and false things that have to be believed or depended upon for your salvation - additional helps or acts ? Paul says anything extra makes = Jesus + = makes Jesus of no value to you
Which then beings up the problem with the Bible in this Protestant view. If the holy spirt failed to guide Christianity for nearly 1500 years… then how can Protestants claim the Bible which was produced and maintained during this period of “failed guidance” is actually any authority on true Christian teaching let alone the “sole authority.”
@@mikekayanderson408and prey tell how do you know the scriptures that you use, that were complied and maintained by the Catholic Church for well over a 1000 years, was inspired by the holy spirt? Your claims that the Church was lead astray also undermines the authority and legitimacy of the very same scriptures you claim as the only authority, because you only have them because the Church preserved them as the scripture.
@@BigBroTejano the Catholic Church believes so much extra dogma that is not in the Bible. The Holy Spirit did not add any of it it was man that did this. The very very early church was not Roman Catholic. It may have been referred to as the Catholic Church - small c. Universal. But that church evolved into the Roman Catholic Church with all it popes and saints and statues etc! That is not how the very early church operated. It has evolved into a massive institution that is nothing like the Church that Jesus started and the Apostles left behind.
It’s funny that you mentioned Methodists. One time RC Sproul was asked in a Q&A if Arminians were Christians. He paused and said, “Barely.” 😵 I still can’t get over that. I should pray for his soul.
The real problem with asking: "Are Catholics Christian" is that you're going to get intellectually wrecked if you ask a knowledgeable Catholic such an ignorant question.
@@mikekayanderson408 Went right over your ahead apparently, lol. Faithful Catholics don't choose their own teachers/pastors based on their own personal interpretations/beliefs. Catholic teaching is the same everywhere in the world, regardless of any particular priest or bishop, and has been that way for longer than Protestantism has existed. Protestants are the ones who self-admittedly shop around for a pastor "to suit their own likings," as Charlie Kirk recently admitted to Michael Knowles. In principle, Protestants don't have any external incarnational authority that they submit to; they merely choose a sect that conforms to their own prior personal beliefs and interpretations. Catholic epistemology looks for the one true Church that can be traced back to Jesus, the Apostles, and their immediate successors in the 1st and 2nd centuries and then submits to the interpretations/beliefs of that Church, once found. Totally different approach than what Paul is talking about in 2 Tim 4:3 which resembles Protestant epistemology/"church-shopping."
@@mikekayanderson408 Trol, get off the keyboard...pray, contemplate, meditate on the love of Jesus and God's salvation plan for you. Hatred aura coming from you is screaming for repentence.
I disagree. I think that some Protestants genuinely ARE Christians, but that they have either intentionally or unintentionally separated themselves from Christ's Church and thus do not avail themselves of the Ordinary Means of Salvation via cooperation with God's Freely Given Grace as made available to us through the Sacraments. Nothing of course is outside the grace, power, mercy, and justice of Almighty God. Therefore I would make no claim upon their salvation or lack thereof. Nor upon my own, for that matter. Dominus vobiscum.
You are wrong. I have been a Protestant all my life, but last year I joined the Catholic Church. I know both sides. Who is a Christian? He that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God, who died for our sins on the cross, and was raised again, and sitteth at the right hand of God, etc. (the Apostles' Creed, which we pray during the rosary) + is baptized. Furthermore, such a person tries to fulfill the commandments of Jesus - especially to love God with all his heart and his neighbor as himself. These criteria are met by both Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christians. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church also teaches that Protestants are our separated brothers and rightly deserve the name "Christians". So you deny the teaching of the Catholic Church. Protestants are just not in full communion with the universal (Catholic) Church. They also cannot enjoy all the gifts of grace - that is, the sacraments (but Protestant baptism is valid if it was performed in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). Many Protestants love Jesus more than most Catholics and are very active in evangelism and read the Bible daily and pray and attend church regularly. A Protestant has no sin if he does not know the truth through no fault of his own (he was brought up that way), but only follows his partial knowledge. I assume that Protestants who will be saved (go to heaven) will probably have to go through purgatory (but so will most Catholics). I can say that the thing that decided me to become a Catholic was that I carefully read the Catholic Catechism. To my surprise, I found that I believe almost everything the same way. The exception was especially the Catholic faith in the Virgin Mary, or rather praying to her and to the saints. But that of course changed as I read other books on the subject and had interviews and watched Catholic videos on UA-cam.
FYI: The picture Joe shows at 35:00 is from the preface in the first printed bible in the German language, the so called Mentelin Bible, published by Johannes Mentelin in 1466.
The best defense is...? You can still undermine your position if all you do is attack theirs. Best case if you defeatthem without defendingyourself, both of you are wrong.
Lately I've found it difficult to have a meaningful discussion with aggressive Protestants (Protestants trolling Catholic channels), because they are generally uninterested in learning anything, only debating ad nauseum, and because youtube keeps deleting comments on both sides of the discussion. So, I'm often forced to reword and/or shorten my comments, and it almost always tends to take more time than it's worth.
Why bother. People with this kind of trolling/aggression and with this kind of mentality are usually are not right in the head to begin with. You give power to their simple minded views. peace
@@clattereffect the arguments are always the same: The troll says something along the lines that Constantine invented catholicism to piggyback Roman Paganism. He will then strawman arguments about "worshipping mary", "invoking dead saints is witchcraft", "buying your way into heaven with indulgences", and "Jesus as a wafer of bread". Then it's "pope is ant!christ, Rome is Babylon wh0re, etc" Among other similar insulting garbage. Its all so repetitive and tiresome, I wish ignorant prods would just skip to the end and rage-quit at the very beginning instead.
Thank you for this video🙏 i met you at the Seek25 Conference and talked to you about how to evangelize tight knit groups like Jehovas Witnesses and this video really is perfect for that! Once again I love the long form content.
It is a good structure to discuss this topic with others. The roadblock for us occurred when our sister had such disagreements (we went from Baptists to Catholic) and then tried to have discussions with our sister, but she wouldn't even discuss her positions much less let us discuss ours.
Thank you for this pragmatic lecture Joe; It should be preached in all homolies throughout our churches because it seems the clergy are oblivious. 🎤🎤🎤🎤🎤💯❤️🙏
Id like to see a show from Joe for just Protestants explaining how and why we venerate Mary and how when they say we worship Her they're actually spreading lies intentionality.
Are Catholics Christian? Yes. Are Orthodox Christian? Yes. Our Coptic Christians? Yes. Are Protestants? Mostly, somewhat? And I'm not just being snarky, I mean they haven't fully been initiated into the church because they lack all the sacraments. I suppose by the broadest definition they are since they're baptized, but they have not yet fully entered into the body of Christ because they haven't received the body of Christ in the Eucharist.
Honest question: how do Protestants deal with the marriage vow of “with my body I thee worship”? Do they think the spouses are becoming idolaters because they are worshipping someone else besides God?
@ but it really goes beyond saying those exacts words in a vow to your partner. Even the relationship with God and Jesus is often viewed or described as a marriage (the love of God and His people is like a marriage and Jesus as our bridegroom) so if the Protestant accept that marriage is also an aspect of our relation with Our Lord how can those against any action that they view as exclusive to the worship of Him can be accepted, such as a Christian marriage? I don’t know if I am explaining myself. Or do they have a different conception of marriage, like a temporal union instead of becoming one flesh?
@ I agree with the spiritual implications you point out. I can’t speak for the views of all protestants, but when I was protestant I had never heard the word sacrament before let alone had any idea of marriage being a sacrament. It wasn’t looked well upon to divorce generally but remarriage wasn’t even considered as a problem.
@@eyrebear1199 how strange that our users name don’t appear. Okay so, remarriage wasn’t something wrong… but it was only civil unions or did you have something considered as a Protestant marriage? Because I just found out that anglicans also have that vow of worshiping.
Thank you for this! I like that i don't have to agree each sect's beliefs but put the emphasis on the church and biblical history. I was in my teens when someone told me that Catholics weren't Christians, I was flabbergasted.
“I say this with love”, to me is just a way of insulting and offending someone but cutting off their ability to state that they have been insulted or offended. It’s rude. If you are saying something with genuine love you don’t need to announce it in advance, it will be clear in your word choice and reasoning. It would also be clear in your willingness to hear the other person’s point of view. If you aren’t prepared to be polite and kind in your words and reasoning and you aren’t prepared to listen to the other person’s point of view then there is no love in your delivery but an expectation of love in the reception and that is not something done with love.
Most Protestants knowledge of Catholicism comes from a mix of a generations long game of telephone, whig history, and poorly catechized Catholics who leave the church because of the poor catechesis repeating their on misunderstandings of Catholic teaching. I have yet to meet a Protestant criticizing Catholicism that actually understands what Catholics believe. I am a former Calvinist and many people tried to convince me not to be Catholic with many different arguments most of which were self evidently false just from reading what they Catholic Church says in the catechism and from plain reading of the biblical text without the Protestant filters.
What a fantastic video 🎉 these videos on the low church beliefs vs the Catholic/early Church beliefs are so beneficial to Christians everywhere. Love the part about Luther and the bible because I've heard too many Protestants buy into these myths. Great job Joe!
I grew up in a vastly predominate Roman Catholic area as an at the time Southern Baptist, although now an Anglican. When the question of what religion a person subscribed to came up the standard Protestant or even Restorationist answer was Christian followed by a denominational note. When the Roman would respond it was nine times out of ten, "I'm not Christian, I'm Catholic." and when the Protestant said Catholics were Christians just of another denomination it was met with angry protest of how Catholics were not Christians. Do denominations worry about others? Sure. When I became an Anglican my parents called my SBC preacher kin to verify I was still a Christian. But in this case, some of your own are actively working against you.
Yup we are human and subject to sin just like everyone else. Those sins sometimes come even from the Vatican but ultimately, despite its sinful members, the Catholic church has the true doctrine of Jesus.
This is what happens when people devoid of The Mission of The Church, start their own "seminaries". The mountain of pride they create that separates them is insurmountable without grace, which is difficult once detached from the source of Sacramental Grace, The Church.
We're Catholics and we know what what we believe in . And as a Catholic i wont be swayed by such unnecessary and lowly based arguments. I love the presention. God bless you
11:30 it also pits St. Paul against Jesus. That's one thing I never understand about faith alone. Is I mean you can't earn your salvation but if you don't allow that faith to inform your life, then at the end you're going to be a goat and not a sheep, because you didn't feed the hungry or clothe the naked or love your neighbor as yourself. In other words, you sin by omission and like the Pharisees who didn't care for the poor, you'll be left in the darkness with grinding and gnashing of teeth.
It has been said that Protestants take an “either-or” approach to biblical exegesis whereas the Catholic approach is “both-and”. There are parts of the Bible that say faith is required for salvation; parts that describe salvation as a grace; and other parts that say works are necessary for salvation. The Catholic says yes to all whereas a Protestant must pick and choose and then explain away the other parts. Parts of the Bible say we must follow apostolic tradition and parts say we must adhere to the scriptures. Catholics say yes Parts of the Bible talk about memorized prayer, parts talk about spontaneous prayer, parts talk about meditative prayer, parts talk about public prayer, parts talk about praying in private. Catholics say yes Parts of the Bible talk about how Jesus will build his Church on the foundation which is Peter. Other parts talk about Jesus being the foundation and others talk about the apostles as the foundation. Catholics say yes There’s a part of the Bible that describes Peter alone as having the power to “bind and loose” and another part that, in another sense, ascribes that authority to all of the apostles together. Catholics say yes Etc…..
I first didn’t really like this, because i think we need a robust answer to the Protestants running their mouths since 500 years. But as soon as you started low key calling people heretics, you had me onboard. 😆
Grew up in northeast US, most Christians I met WERE Catholic. I didn't realize there was an anti-Catholic sentiment until I moved South. I expect some (not all) protestant denominations feel the need to justify why their brand is correct, and start with what they perceive Catholics to be erroneous on. It seemed like part of the formation education. I didn't really have the same thing the other way in CCD. Fortunately, if Catholic viewers are ever pressed, the Catechism has excellent overviews of a TON of our beliefs, and Catholic Answers (especially folks like Joe) are also a great resource. Someone has most likely already answered whatever objection you are getting very articulately centuries ago.
I grew up Protestant, attended a Baptist high school that taught Catholics weren't Christians, and I joined the Catholic church this last Sunday on Epiphany. In the last 6 months as I wrestled with this decision, read every scrap of theology on both sides of the divide, and spent a lot of time in prayer over the decision, I kept hearing my high school teachers' and friends' comments in my head. Thank you for this.
Welcome home
Welcome home brother ✝️
Welcome!
Welcome home.
"Be sober and vigilant."
Make good friends who will help you to keep the fullness of the Faith of Christ Jesus. Alleluia!
This "Catholics are not Christian" thing seems to be an American Protestantism fixation. Thank you Joe for the great tips handling this statements with our Christian charity.🙏🙏🙏
I live here in the South, I have actually heard this out of people's mouths
If you notice there is always a pattern with Americans and Elitism. The whole world revolves around them for some reason.
Of course not all americans, and I love them as my bretheren in Christ.
@@glennlanham6309 same here, I've never detected a sense of love but rather disdain from the prots when they come up with the ridiculous assertion that Catholics are not Christian.
Absolutely. I went through this with my children 2000, USA Florida. I was flabbergasted. Also working in a medical clinic that year, an avalanche of Anti Catholic slurs from every corner after the Bishop Simons revelation. Very difficult to navigate through that vitriol here.
I think you are right about that. I don't entirely know why excepting it being such a breeding ground for low church varieties. There's a unique discontinuity with history among Americans in all aspects of life.
For a Protestant to ask this question to a Catholic is like a migrant who became a US citizen to ask someone who was born in the US whether he's an American. In other words - highly inappropriate.
Perfectly put!
And they became that citizen over 1,500 years later- at the earliest
As a Protestant, to me Catholics are idolaters.
That's a totally good metaphor
But the "migrant's" ancestors lived in that same place for as many generations as the "citizen," in this example. I think the metaphor could use some work.
Unfortunately I used to claim that Catholics were probably not “saved”. Fast forward 30+ years after actually reading the official teachings of the church (catechisms & Vatican documents) and the Early Church Fathers everything began to unravel. Binged watched Shamless Popery, Council of Trent, Pints with Aquinas, Journey Home, etc…and I started to be concerned that I might be wrong. I then read a lot of CA books and couldn’t remain Protestant (Southern Baptist/Evangelical Free) any longer - Received into to the Catholic Church 1.5 years ago. ❤
Thank you for taking the time to make this video! God bless the work you do.
Welcome home.
Welcome home!
Welcome home! Your witness is much-needed for two groups: (1) Protestants who still hold to your earlier, ignorant, opinions; and (2) Catholics who are tempted to judge harshly the Protestants who naively hold to those opinions.
Glory be to God
@@shamelesspopery Thank you for investing a lot of your time and effort into making this content available. You are undergirding the truth, especially where there are misconceptions or falsehood that are widely (and blindly) accepted.
BTW: The Early Church Was The Catholic Church was instrumental in my conversion.
My mom asked me on Christmas Eve "Why would you want to be Catholic instead of Christian?" I didn't get offended or defensive I just told her Mom, it's the original Christianity!
@@DDickinson458 It's actually not. Catholicism is a bunch of lies and deceit. Tell me how could Peter be the first pope or Roman Catholic for that matter when Jesus was a Jew and all the first diciples and writers of the New Testament were Jews except Luke who was Greek.
That was nice of you. I would have said, "Mom, Catholism IS Christianity. Protestantism is Christianity's bones without the marrow."
Amen! God bless you.
@@Rob-j5lare you a troll, ignorant, or stupid?
@@Rob-j5l It actually is the original Christian Church. Matthew 16:18-19 (cf. Isaiah 22:22) shows why Peter is the first pope.
I once heard a Lutheran pastor talk about crosses vs crucifixes. He said, “What is it about the crucifix that is so offensive to some? The same people who have no problem seeing baby Jesus depicted in a manger are deeply offended by seeing an adult Jesus hanging on a cross. They say, ‘Well, he isn’t on the cross anymore.’ But, he isn’t in the manger, either. It must be Jesus’ sacrifice in and of itself that offends them.” I really liked that logic. I used it on my Baptist parents a while back and they both clutched their pearls. 😂
My experience ( as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), has always primarily been focused on the Resurrected Christ (He Lives!), as well as a lesser degree the Garden of Gethsemane, where he took upon himself all of our sins. The Cross was an important, but intermediate step in the whole process.
Well I think it was Joe who said “an empty cross is completely pointless. All crosses end up empty. It’s the empty tomb that’s important.” I personally feel like there’s something VERY suspect for Catholics in the empty cross. It’s kind of creepy, like what in the world is worthwhile about the cross alone except for Jesus’s sacrifice on it? Lots of people died on crosses. It’s only what Jesus did that saves. And maybe it highlights a key difference between us - Jesus suffers for us in order to call us to imitate his self-sacrifices, whereas Protestants usually don’t have a very developed sense of the point of Jesus’s suffering and the salvific potential of their own sufferings in this world. I think in my own family I see this when they suffer, it seems pointless to them.
Keep in mind, as Christians, we preach "Christ Crucified." The crucifix is a great reminder of our doing so.
Someone objecting crucifix is a big red flag, if you think about it. Crucifix is s widely used prop in exorcism.
@@emilyzlockardbetter not venerate the True Cross then
When I converted, that’s what my family were worried about (that Catholics aren’t Christian) and that’s what my wife was taught to believe (as a Southern Baptist). In fact, when I converted my MIL cried to my SIL that we were not going to be able to celebrate birthdays or holidays anymore. As if we were becoming Jehovah’s Witness lol
Haha wonder how your MIL would have reacted this past week where a lot of my church’s members wished our priest ‘Happy Birthday,’ gave him gifts, and invited him out to dinner to celebrate 😂
Not to mention the big holidays we celebrate like Christmas, Easter, etc are Catholic days 😂
@ Yeah, it led to a conversation where I had to break it to her: You know Baptists didn’t celebrate Christmas or Easter till after the Civil War because they were “Catholic” holidays, right?
I know what you mean. I converted last year, and a coworker asked if I still celebrate Christmas. 😂 I said “Why wouldn’t I? It’s a Catholic holiday!”
@@Actual_E "Like, dude, Christ-MASS. I literally went there." coworker:😶😦😧
What 😂
When I converted, and told my family…my sister in law straight up said “I know some Catholics that are Christian.” I sat in silence…. Just didn’t have words. Thank you for this.
She probably think the Christian Catholic are the ashamed Catholics hahaha
"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
Saint Ignatius of Antioch
The “c” in catholic in your citation should be lowercased. Ignatius lived in a time when that word referred to anyone who is a Christian, which was his point of you look at the entire chapter.
@@KMANelPADRINO you're distinction only makes sense in modern languages.
@
1) I’m a Patristics scholar and read Ignatius in his own words without the English language barrier. So heed my words and consider me when I say my next points:
My distinction make sense in the modern era as there was no East-West split or approximation of it during Ignatius’s time, there was nothing even close to a doctrine of transubstantiation for the Eucharist (Roman Catholic scholars have openly admitted this for over 100 years), and Ignatius’s gospel of salvation more aligns and approximates the modern Protestant presentation (by design since Ignatius has been one of the Church Fathers most favored by the Protestant leaders) than it does the current system of indulgences and distinctions between mortal and venial sins and the lack of distinctions between justification and sanctification that Rome currently promotes.
St. Ambrose - "Where Peter is, there is the Church, and where the Church is, there is not death, but life eternal."
@@KMANelPADRINO when you say there was "nothing even close to a doctrine of transubstantiation" is that because you don't read anyone talking about it? Or because you read things contrary to the doctrine?
I am a Protestant who has recently been exploring Catholicism, and I have been presently surprised. The Catholics are in my view absolutely brothers and sisters in Christ. Protestants and Catholics are aligned on the central doctrines and theology.
Glad to hear it, and I hope that God continues to guide your exploration!
Asking if a Catholic is a Christian is a bit like asking if Superman is a superhero. Well considering we Catholics are the first and only true Christians the answer is yes.
it's crazy that the question even exists
Yeah ... but many protestants are just so ignorant of what Catholicism is, they come to crazy conclusions (like "Catholics worship Mary", "Catholics aren't christian", etc.). Moreover, there are lots of protestant leaders that are more than happy to pour gas on the fire of these misunderstandings.
A jingoism that is radically true, but nonetheless a jingoism.
Which Superman? The one who looks exactly like the good one but does wrong or the one who only does good and how do you tell the difference if you have no other information?
You don't get to be insulted by the ignorance of others. You also don't have to be insulted by someone trying to insult you.
@@ethanmiller5487 You don't have no other information.
Joe Heschmeyer to do Catholic Answers' first movie, "What is a Christian?" You heard it here first.
take my money now
Sequel is "Am I Christian?"
@@TheHolyOnes33🤣🤣🤣
What is a church?
Top comment!
Twenty years ago an evangelical protestant friend told me he didn't think I was a Christian and thus, not saved. Ten years later he said he thought I WAS a Christian and saved! I thanked him for letting me know. LOL.
@@TruthHasSpoken Yeesh, sounds like a Calvinist. 😬 Talk about people who don't understand Christ's sacrifice. 😂
@@kylemckiernan1445 He was Church of God, the movement out of Anderson, IN
My wife and I are converting from Pentecostal to Catholic, we asked god what should we do before we came to this conclusion. God imprinted a heart in the fog on our window next to my wife's rosary as a sign and answer. (:
I will say this, there is a lot of focus on "you" in most Protestant churches in America, in Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy it is almost completely a focus on "him" (Jesus) and completely submitting to him and authorities in the church- which is very uncomfortable for the average American like myself. Having your own opinion and interpretation within it is not accepted, which is completely against what our Western culture promotes in regards to relativism- the doctrine that knowledge, truth, and morality exist in relation to culture, society, or historical context, and are not absolute.
It hurt my pride and individuality to humble myself before mortal men in the church, but I realized how can I truly humble myself before God Almighty if I can't even kiss the hand and cross of a priest who loves him more than me.
You are doing great!
Welcome home.
wow! Well said.
Protestant brother here, thanks for the video, and I pray people will use this video to soften hearts towards the Catholic Church
My hope would be for Protestants to "Come and see."
@@rukidding-y2c Mine too!
Come home brother!
My hope would be catholics obey God and listen to what He has said in the Bible...
@dand4485 God loved the world so much that he sent A BOOK! No. The Incarnate Word dwelt among us in the flesh. Incidentally, the flesh from The Blessed Virgin Mary. Ever Blessed, Ever Virgin, Sinless (Immaculate), Holy Mother of God. I guess you Protestants have all fainted dead away.
My wife is still Nazarene and a board member so I attended a Nazarene Church every week. This is very useful! I heard Catholics aren’t Christian just a few weeks ago!
Do you believe Catholics are Christians?
As a Protestant, I lived in my own bubble and did not associate with Catholics. The premise of my thinking was logical. If a Catholic were a true Christian, then he would have the Holy Spirit to guide him into all truth (as the Scriptures say) and therefore he would not be able to persist in such heinous sins and errors as breaking the Ten Commandments, i.e. making statues and images which bowing. He could not pray to Mary and the saints, because one can only pray to God and talking to the dead is necromancy (i.e. they actually have contact with demons). But then I had a sincere conversation with a deeply religious Catholic. I did not argue with her, we just talked about her faith, etc. And during that conversation I felt with certainty in her that she had the same Holy Spirit as I did. I was very confused. But I had to admit that I was wrong and she is truly a Christian despite her errors. I came to the conclusion that God is loving and just and values a pure heart and so forgives even those (unforgivable) sins. Three years ago I met a nun. She just opened the door to the monastery (where the ecumenical spiritual retreats were held). It took me two seconds to look into the eyes of this nun (who said nothing to me except greeting) and all my prejudices collapsed. Because I perceived a person who was vastly superior to me spiritually. When one is full of God, he does not even need to speak and is more convincing than many rational arguments.
Saint Francis said - "Preach the Gospel wherever you go, if it cannot be done otherwise, then with words".
Today I am a Catholic. Yes, before I made my decision, I read the catechism, etc., but in the beginning there was the experience of meeting Catholics who lived devotedly to Jesus.
I love your comment, thank you for sharing with us your experience and welcome home!
American evangelical Protestantism is what I call Dick Clark Christianity.”It has a good beat and it’s easy to dance to.“🤷♂️ That may go over a lot of heads sorry lol
Seriously though, what pushed me into The Catholic Church is that I couldn’t believe that Jesus started a church and got it wrong for 1500 years until Mr Luther fixed it! If that were true? Christianity would be a fiction.
Well, the contradictions of Protestantism don't enter most peoples heads, so good on you brother
Unfortunately, our Protestant friends believe our Lord waited 1500 years to give his followers the “true” doctrine of sola scriptora. So we are to believe that Our Lord lead his followers on a wild goose chase until he sends the prophet Luther?
Yep
@@Catholicmom2567sorry, it’s just not true, we look to the church fathers, church history all the way back to the beginning! What you’re doing is only a caricature of Protestants….
That is an uneducated statement of an advocate for a position rather than a seeker of truth.
Pretty much sums up the protestant position. Holy Spirit was silent for neary 1500 years, which is why many protestants think catholics are not christian.
I do not think people grapple with this enough. Why is Luther able to get it right for 500 years, in a clear and forthright way, but Jesus and the apostles couldn’t? Why did Jesus fail and Ellen Gould White succeeded? Why did Jesus abandon his church? He could have sent the Holy Spirit to lead his church, or he could have sent the Holy Spirit to lead each believer so they all agree on the truth, but instead he just left the whole thing alone to get into a huge mess that only Calvin or Joseph Smith or whoever could sort out for him. That’s a breathtaking claim.
i learnt from Trent Horn to always first ask, "What led you to that conclusion?"
Great reply! I have learned in general that if anyone were to say anything negative about me, the best thing to say is to ask, "What do you mean?" A lot of times, they do not know what to say in response. They did not expect that.
Another good question is, "who told you that"?
“What makes you say that?”
“Wow, I’m sorry you think that.”
Ohh. I love that answer.
I will never be considered Christian by my mom. While crying she told me I am already dead (spiritually) and when I go to hell it's really going to hurt, and to "please read your bible." Honestly, she doesn't know a single thing about Catholicism. She has this problem because "people bow down to the pope and kiss his rings" and "popes claim to talk to God." It's a very confusing culture shock to her. She thought she would be able to find out why I believe I can do these things if she read "the apocrypha" but she can't find where it says we can do that. I have no idea where to even begin with her. It's very draining to know she feels this way about her daughter. I wouldn't want to feel this way about my children either.
Try praying a daily rosary for her ❤ if you aren't already. Keeping you and your mom in our prayers❤
Sorry to hear about all of that with your mom.
If anything, at least it’s encouraging that she loves you enough to worry about you and your eternal soul. Some parents barely care what their kids do next month, let alone drive themselves in worry that their kids are heading towards the bad place. Honestly, she’s like St. Monica in the sense of worrying about her child and praying constantly for them to give themselves to God. Which is a good start, even if it comes from a place of gross misunderstanding.
In that vein, the best thing you can do is pray for her to God as well and that y’all continue to have some relationship with each other. If it’s too toxic and terrible, then by all means limit contact but make sure she knows it’s not because of actual Catholic teaching as that can sour her perception more. Explain that you two just aren’t bringing out the best in each other at the moment and you want to save what’s left before it also breaks. Maybe that will help her see how her own behavior is causing more confusion and chaos between you two, or she’ll double down on her prejudice towards the Church. Either way, you can only do so much and ultimately it’s up to your mother whether she lets the Holy Spirit lead her the right way or not.
St. Monica is a good Saint for family members who worry about their loved ones, and there’s many more you can ask their intercession for.
On a day to day level, live your faith well. If all your mom knows about the faith is whatever propaganda she sees or reads, then just calmly live out what the reality is. Don’t be afraid to tell her stories about the Catholics you know, invite her to events like bingo nights, dinners, gatherings, etc so she sees Catholics are just normal people. Let her mind see Catholics not as spiritually dead heathens, but her fellow brothers and sisters living their lives to the fullest of God’s will for them. Ideas are easy to twist and hate, much harder to do the same when one interacts with someone face to face.
Hope this helps and I’ll be praying for y’all 😇🙏
Do you have the catechism, the catechism shows were everything is found in the Bible it’s our statement of faith
@@Lalakersssss thank you so much ❤ I shed tears when I read a couple people would pray for us
@@jendoe9436 thank you so much, your prayers mean so much to me. Unfortunately I think she would see being invited to anything Catholic as a statement that Catholicism is ok and she doesn't take her faith seriously. It's the mindset of many of the people and elders at the Church of Christ.
St. Ambrose - "Where Peter is, there is the Church, and where the Church is, there is not death, but life eternal."
St. Ignatius of Antioch says if you don't receive the eucharist, you're not Christian. Do learned from John. So I've started saying protestants aren't Christian. 😂
@@waterwarrior242
According to Pope St Pius XII in his encyclical Mystici Corpus Christi, Protestants are not Christians. They profess a different religion. Read paragraph 22, Pius XII couldn’t be more clear
15:45 Whenever I encounter a Protestant fixation that I cannot get around, I just find an opposing interpretation of that same fixation by another Protestant denomination and bring it up and ask whether they are not true Christians either. Slowly and slowly, they end up isolating themselves.
Edit: Probably should have waited to comment since an example of this was brought up a minute later.
Excellent way to go about it.
Always with compassion of course!
I guess Calvinists are just predestined to be wrong about this...
And I don't consider Calvinists to be Christian at all. Catholics are much closer to be Christians, if I overlooked whatever they did in the Dark Age such as buying your tickets to heaven. And of course the one boy policy for their Priests. I will never consider idols worshippers to be Christians. It is that simple for me, only God knows in their heart who each of us is praying to. You can tell me whatever they want when they kneel in front of that woman statue or some dead people!
Now that, right there, was funny. Well done.
@@vt20247Why do you speak lies and slander? That’s hardly a Christian thing to do.
@vt20247 Leave the heresy behind and come home
@@vt20247Can you define worship?
The 'Are Catholics Christian?' question is a recent phenomenon. A few years ago everyone knew Catholics and Protestants were both Christian. However, due to the growth of non-denominational Christians these folks do not identify as 'Protestant' because they eschew attachments to any Protestant denominational traditions. They think they're orthodox because they prefer to think of themselves as 'Bible Christians', and because they can't see Catholicism in the Bible, they wrongly conclude that it's false.
How are you defining "a few years"? Because this phenomenon has existed in Baptist circles for decades.
And the irony is, the Church proceeds the Bible
@@vinciblegaming6817
You are correct. When we converted in 1992, my wife contacted the Baptist church she grew up in for her baptismal record. A snark filled letter followed saying that they do not provide that information for people "leaving the faith". Our priest said that was good enough confirmation thinking that they would have said she was never baptized if she hadn't been.
@@bryanforeman4144 Talk about being spiteful. He did not have the ability to recognize that spite, especially spiteful action, is antithetical to Christianity. There is also the concept of false witness which also applies to withholding true witness.
SS is a superstition in the Bible. It is the foundation of sand.
Luckily, this is an American problem only. As a cradle Catholic from Nigeria, I was shocked and confused the first time I was asked this question in America.
I suspect that for Protestants, the question "are Catholics Christian?" is very closely related to the question "are Catholics saved?" or in the more general case "what do you need to believe to be saved?" It seems unlikely that if you think Catholic and protestant beliefs/practices are minor enough that Catholics are saved just like protestants are, that you'd have a reason to say "Catholics aren't Christian." That's the thing we all really care about, not what conceptual label we stick on different groups of people.
It seems to me that "Catholics aren't Christians" is a way for a protestant to state that they think Catholics are all/almost all going to hell while trying to sidestep questions about what actual doctrinal positions they think are damnable.
I’ve been a Protestant my entire life. Over the past six months I’ve been learning a lot of Protestants turning to a movement called Torahism. Sometimes called Torahism or Hebrew roots. I’ve watched your videos now for a couple months and those of Trent Horn and wow am I blow away. I may have to convert soon. I don’t try to debate but when I find this conspiracy videos of the pope opening up a portal, I explain to some of the more reasonable of the commenters that it was Christmas Mass and the door opening kicking off Jubilee and there was no harm done to any portals.
***Wonderful observations! I vividly remember the personal testimony of a man who was about to be received into the Church, a few weeks before Easter, five years ago. He noted: "Once I stopped throwing up the same old objections and simply fell on Catholic teachings, naked as on a sword, the most shocking thing happened: IT opened up!" Follow the Lamb, wherever He leads. All will be well. I promise to include you in my daily prayers. Please pray for me, also. +Peace+ ***
" I may have to convert soon"
Great! Nothing better than receiving Jesus in the Eucharist, a means for receiving his grace. High recommend watching Dr Brant Pitre's parish talk, available on youtube, _Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist._
Confessional Lutheran here,
In my experience and being confirmed in the LCMS, it was surprising in college to hear the question thrown around "Are Catholics Christian?" in protestant circles(honestly still is). We Lutherans have our disagreements, but we never thought Roman Catholics weren't Christians for obvious reasons.
My lovely girlfriend is Roman Catholic, but was raised Nondenom/Baptist until only a few years ago now. Since her conversion, her family responded very negatively to it, but thankfully that has improved recently. I am hoping they grow in understanding of her tradition as I have been.
Your videos are really great for my own study of Roman Catholicism, and appreciate all that you do for Christianity! God bless, my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters!
Thank you and my God bless you, too.
@@lyndavonkanel8603 You are welcome, and thank you! Go in peace, and serve our Lord with joy. :~)
@@aaroncarlson3686 I do!
To be fair, Lutherans are ‘Gospel Catholics’. Funny how the first ‘Protestant’ group barely fits the bill of ‘Protestant’ in the first place.
Defining yourself as “Protestant” is embarrassing; no one wants to be defined primarily as “against” something else. That’s probably why “nondenominational” is becoming such a popular label, too; it’s an acknowledgement that Protestant is inherently factional, and (at least in practice through history) has destroyed the global unity of the Church and created Atheism. I would bet “Christian” is their attempt to make a new label they can rally under while still letting them excluding Catholics; classic “younger brother” behavior
Thoughts on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? The Chrurch Christ established, Restored, with a Living Prophet and Apostles and continuing the pattern of Revelation? (As far as I know, the only church to have such)
@ with respect, i see no reason to take their claims more seriously than other Protestant groups. The LDS was also founded on the idea that the Church Jesus established failed, and thus needed to be “restored”, but their attempt at restoration lead to multiple divisions and sub-groups even within the life of the founder.
My opinion: Either Jesus’ Church is as reliable today as it was when it was founded by Himself, or it is not worth taking seriously. If it needed to be “restored”, then it was illegitimate from the start, rightfully failed, and any “restored” version will only fail again. Why should we think a “new Church of Jesus” will be stronger and more stable than the one founded by Actual Jesus Himself?
@@GldnClaw with respect, i see no reason to take their claims more seriously than other Protestant groups. The LDS was also founded on the idea that the Church Jesus established failed, and thus needed to be “restored”, but their attempt at restoration lead to multiple divisions and sub-groups even within the life of the founder.
My opinion: Either Jesus’ Church is as reliable today as it was when it was founded by Himself, or it is not worth taking seriously. If it needed to be “restored”, then it was illegitimate from the start, rightfully failed, and any “restored” version will only fail again. Why should we believe that not-Jesus “restoring” a failed church would be better than Jesus building His Church?
@@GldnClaw with respect, i see no reason to take their claims more seriously than other Protestant groups. The LDS was also founded on the idea that the Church Jesus established failed, and thus needed to be “restored”, but their attempt at restoration lead to multiple divisions and sub-groups even within the life of the founder.
My opinion: Either Jesus’ Church is as reliable today as it was when it was founded by Himself, or it is not worth taking seriously. If it needed to be “restored”, then it was illegitimate from the start, rightfully failed, and any “restored” version will only fail again. Why should we believe not-Jesus “restoring” a Church would be more successful than Jesus establishing a church we think failed?
@@GldnClaw with respect, i see no reason to take their claims more seriously than other Protestant groups. The LDS was also founded on the idea that the Church Jesus established failed, and thus needed to be “restored”, but their attempt at restoration lead to multiple divisions and sub-groups even within the life of the founder.
My opinion: Either Jesus’ Church is as reliable today as it was when it was founded by Himself, or it is not worth taking seriously. If it needed to be “restored”, then it was illegitimate from the start, rightfully failed, and any “restored” version will only fail again. Why should we believe not-Jesus “restoring” a Church would be more successful than Jesus establishing a church we think failed?
I've noticed this also. They have a fixation .
Like seventh days Adventist are obsessed with the 7th day and dietary laws.
The faith alone thing really drives me crazy. It literally says not by faith alone in James and also 1corinthians 13 says you can have all the faith in the world but it won't profit you anything without love
In discussing the question 'are Catholic Christian', I love that the thumbnail contains an image of the cross vs the crucifix.
Our Protestant friends like to say the reason for the 'empty cross' is Christ rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. That is true, but not from the Cross. Christ rose from the tomb. If they were true to their stated convictions they would all decorate their churches with empty tombs. The reason the Cross became bare was because Our Lord was cut down from it, bloody and broken. That is what we should all see when we see an empty Cross: the price paid. Just my $.02.
Thank you 🙏🏼
The empty cross symbolizes the completed work of Christ-His death for our sins and His victory through the resurrection. While He rose from the tomb, the cross remains central because it represents both the price paid and the triumph over sin and death. The empty cross points to the living Savior, not just the suffering sacrifice.
@@rebuildspirit Then what makes that particular empty cross any different from the ones next to it (or any cross used for criminals in a Roman crucifixion)?
@@NuLeif What makes that empty cross different is not the physical object but the one who hung on it. Jesus' sacrifice transformed the cross from a tool of shame into a symbol of salvation. His victory over sin and death gives that empty cross eternal significance-it represents the redemption accomplished uniquely through Him.
@ I know what Protestants/Evangelicals believe, I was one for over 30 years.
34:04 i mean technically the vulgate was a translation into the common language. And a lot of those languages were still developing. Like English really didn't stabilize until the 16th century, I've read that several Bible translations were underway for Old English and then were sort of abandoned because the language basically changed so rapidly.
Correct, St Jerome's translation was literally the Everyman Translation for the Vulgar(common) tongue of the Empire. The "common man" would have heard the Scriptures in his own language (LATIN) since the 4th century!
Latin only fell into disuse as the empire crumbled and evaporated.
Furthermore, translating the Bible into English, French, German, etc. was largely unnecessary: >95% of the population were entirely illiterate and books themselves were ENORMOUSLY expensive to produce, maintain, distribute and own.
Pretending that Luther's (ABRIDGED, lol) Bible "sparked" the Reformation is asinine and flat wrong.
@@rangefinderz5135 I like what you say about the Vulgate, but we can go further back -- Jesus spoke in Aramaic with His followers from Gallilee, and tradition has it that Matthew originally wrote in Aramaic.
But immediately after Pentecost, we have Greek-speaking Christians (Acts 6). Like the Ethiopian Eunuch (Acts 9), they were probably reading the Greek Scriptures -- the Septuagint.
And Mark, the secretary of Peter, wrote the Gospel of Jesus in Koine Greek, so that all the Roman Empire could understand. And Matthew re-wrote his Gospel in Greek. And all the rest of the New Testament comes down to us in Greek.
Because that was the language everyone who could read, did read.
Thank You for this video. I needed to hear this. As Catholic myself, I have heard people say: "Christians and Catholics". How can THE FIRST CHRISTIAN RELIGION NOT BE CHRISTIAN?
When you ask a Catholic about his religion, the default answer is not, " I am a Christian ", but I am Catholic
@@Maranatha99 Catholic means universal. They might say catholic because it translates as the universal church of Christ. That is the historical meaning. It is about unity.
@philyra8991 the 1st identification of a Christian is the person of Jesus Christ. Period.
This is a much needed lesson. My middle school aged daughter in 2000 was told Catholics aren't Christian after her confirmation. This is USA, Florida. 🙏 for our children.
Are Catholics Christian? is one of the dumbest questions I have ever heard.
As a Protestant ( who is becoming more Catholic with each video) I'm always stunned when I hear the " Catholics aren't Christians " claim. It's impossible to go to Mass and NOT see fundamental , basic Christianity throughout the liturgy. Especially in the Eucharist and the reciting of the Creed. Love your videos , keep them coming .... God bless you , Joe !!!!!
That’s a very USA thing. I am from a country in Latin America and nobody would ever ask that cause is stupid. I find those Protestants in a bubble and i think they need to ask questions as to why they believe why they believe.
Same here in Europe. Same in Africa. Same in the rest of the world actually. It really is an American thing. Makes sense considering the American mindset and culture
what often frustrates me more than this question is the statement: "there are probably some Catholics who are Christians, but only the ones who don't really know Catholicism or who believe the Bible instead of Catholic teachings." Really grinds my gears
As a new convert to the Catholic church, I really done care what any protestant have to say, because all their churches are man made established, and doesn't have the fullness of truth.
Amen
We have the truths of the Bible- we have the truth God had spoken and that is all we need. Anything extra are man made additions or subtractions in some cases and not of God. We do not add to the Gospel it- genuine a reformed churches anyway. We do not add to Jesus Christ.
So instead of delighting in all the Roman Catholic extras - you should be ditching them for the sake of your soul!
Paul said if you add anything to the Gospel it is then made invalid!
He also says believing in anything other than Jesus Christ alone as for your salvation makes Jesus if no use to you.
So please consider your situation.
And I do not say this out of malice but concern - as Joe suggested!
Welcome home.
@@mikekayanderson408 I understand that you feel driven to save those who are unsaved.
But.
Do you think that these people you are addressing here, who were raised as you were, and have had to learn that they were misled when they believed as you do now -- do you think that you are presenting anything new to them?
Converts to the Catholic Church were brought up just as you were.
They have come to believe that they are most faithful to following Jesus by taking this tremendous step.
@mikekayanderson408
What Church do you attend?
What awkwardness? When I've run into this, the person was very smug and accusatory. Not awkward.
I haven't encountered the awkwardness, except from family. People are usually pretty direct, which I am fine with.
Especially on the internet, no awkwardness at all, just plain pure Catholic bashing.
yes, usually they are just outright raging (and completely ignorant) bigots.
Joe:"im loosing my voice"
Goes on to speak on a great 50min episode. Than you for your work.
I was getting to know this girl and when she asked if I was religious she immediately asked if I was "Christian or Catholic" which caught me so off-guard I knew hardcore atheists online would say this but the everyday person? wild
I regularly hear my non-Catholic friends and extended family use phrases like "what's the difference between Catholicisim and Christianity" or "Are you Catholic or Christian". I no longer am offended by this language, because I know they are not being malicious, but I do gently correct them.
@ She told me her dad was hardcore atheist and that he said Catholics aren't Christian so there's my answer at least as to why she thought that
I have delineated between Christians and Catholics when I was younger because I thought THEY preferred it... I thought I was being respectful 😅 I never thought Catholics WEREN'T Christian, though. It took me a minute.
@lyanreehan Why would an atheist claim that is beyond me.
They are brainwashed to believe that sht.
Upon hearing I was becoming Catholic my father in la, a Calvinist, declared that Catholicism is not a saving faith. I knew better.
My family has always been Catholic. Parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc., we’ve always been Catholics. My sister considered herself a very devout Catholic all her life, but in truth, I think it’s clear she was not as well informed as she should have been about the faith because when confronted with a personal challenge in her life where she had a problem with Catholic teaching, she left the church. She became an evangelical Baptist. She and I go round and round on points of faith where I correct her on Catholic teaching. Her response is always, “That’s not right, I’ve never heard that”, when it’s right in the Catechism.
At one point she told me that she asked her pastor if Catholics are saved. She has also made outlandish claims about whatCatholics believe. Each time I say, “ You know better than that”. You know that’s not true, why would you even say such things?” She counters with weak answers implying that her understanding of the issue is what most people think. I get very angry inside. I try not to let it boil over into the conversation, but I cannot debate her on any point because for her Catholics are just wrong and she does not even concede that our understanding of scripture has any validity at all. She believes many vile and ignorant falsehoods about the Church. I love my sister but it saddens me. It’s tough to always have to defend the Church to people who have never known the Church. It’s heartbreaking to have to do it with someone who should know better and is relying on what others have told her instead of discovering the truth for herself.
I say this with love but it's pride, she's being prideful and like most protestants likes that she can make up the rules to fit her vices (maybe not your sister exactly but most prots I find this to be true) protestantism was founded on the sin of pride "I know better" my advice is pray and make sacrifices for her reversion and I'd stop discussing it with her, point her to books or UA-cam videos just be her loving devout catholic sister.
@ thank you for your comments. I know my sister loves God deeply. I think perhaps that you are right about pride when this began. I think now she sincerely believes what she professes. Your advice is very sound and I agree that it’s better than directly challenging her. Sometimes those closest to you are the ones farthest to reach. Thank you and God bless you.
"Don't debate the finer points" is the best advice, and I give it all the time. I like to tell people to focus on "What is Scripture". How do you know? Where did it come from? Why is X Scripture and Y not Scripture? Epistemology is where the protestant must make the most assumptions and it generally reveals that they are assuming their own conclusions, rather than assuming something more simple like minimal historical facts.
Scripture: Any message, whether written or spoken, that comes from God to man by the power of the Holy Ghost is scripture.
How do you Know? I currently use the Hansen 5 model (intuition, sensory experience, reason, moral outcomes, authority).
Where did it come from? The Prophets since Adam and is currently ongoing.
Why is X scripture and not Y? Using the Hansen 5 model, I've determined the validity of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the Pattern of validity that has been established. Using that, in addition to the Canon, the Apocrypha (and littl 'a' apocrypha) has concordance with LDS Doctrine, but a lot has also been garbled.
Hope that helps.
The historical argument is one that won me over about eight years ago. My argument back then was that medieval scribes forged everything to erase the true history of Christianity. It was a great argument if one is ignorant of known history…and trash if one looks into it for more than an hour on Google.
And please let the “Joeism phallacy” become a respected term 😂
I am a protestant.. I have no doubt that Catholics are Christians. The crazy thing is that this accusation came from a Calvinist. I've always questioned whether Calvinists are Christians.
Calvinists deny that Christ died for all and that salvation is available to all. Calvinists believe that God is arbitrary, unknowable, and unapproachable. That's an entirely different God listen to the one which I believe is presented in the bible.
I was raised SBC... conversations with my reformed friends lead me to the Church. I was raised with the position closer to Leighton Flowers takes. It all comes down to a question of final authority. Neither one of us had any authority to say who was right or wrong. Dwell on it long enough and the matter is unescapable.... we must have an authority above our own personal interpretation. You then try to apply this to your pastor, your denomination, and then your own specific theological framework (Reformed, Arminian, etc)... It doesn't hold up to the question of a final authority within the Protestant framework.
Most of these conversations ended with whether the topic was primary, secondary, or a tertiary issue... who gets to decide where it falls? Then you get to start all over!! 😅🤪
God as tyrant Terrifying actually
@@benjaminshirley Right. I agree. However, the Roman Catholic formulation of the Church's authority doesn't convince me. That's my problem. I believe that the Church had authority, but previous politicization and corruption has destroyed that formulation. I don't believe that the Roman Catholic Church possesses the legitimate authority it claims.
@@brushylake4606 Pretty reasonable concern. It happens all the time to man made institutions, after all. I really encourage you to look into church history. There is a historical record, writings of the earliest Christians, secular sources, etc. and it can be understood. I think a lot of people assume it was lost (not saying you're making that claim) and never try to investigate it. One point that I appreciate Joe for making about this topic is that if the Catholic Church was corrupted, we should be able to point to that corruption, based on the historical record.
May God guide you to the truth!
I don't debate my Catholisim unless it is attacked. And then I just tell them I believe what I believe and no one will ever change my beliefs
This is like saying Italian pizza isn't pizza.
I like it! I've tried saying that it's like Iceland claiming mainland Europe isn't part of the continent, but yours might be clearer and more helpful.
The sheer discourtesy of it... How it pains me that responding with equal love, making a concerned expression and calling them forsaken heretics doesn't work...
Lutherans, Presbyterians, Church of England, Episcopalians, and Methodists all accept and use the Apostle's Creed and Nicene Creed which originated in the Catholic Church. Does this mean that all of these are also NOT Christians??
Another great one Joe and done very graciously to our brothers and sisters in Christ
🤦♀️. Stop calling them our brothers and sisters in Christ. All you’re doing is affirming them in their error and sending them to hell.
The underlying question should be, can we trust Jesus and the Holy Spirit? Catholics do. Prots seem to believe they failed to guide the Church as promised.
So - did the Holy Spirit lead the Roman Catholic to teach false doctrines that are Diametrically opposed to what the Holy Spirit led the Apostles to write down in Scripture! I think not!
So if you trust in Jesus Christ why do you add false additions to the Gospel and false things that have to be believed or depended upon for your salvation - additional helps or acts ?
Paul says anything extra makes = Jesus + = makes Jesus of no value to you
Which then beings up the problem with the Bible in this Protestant view. If the holy spirt failed to guide Christianity for nearly 1500 years… then how can Protestants claim the Bible which was produced and maintained during this period of “failed guidance” is actually any authority on true Christian teaching let alone the “sole authority.”
@@mikekayanderson408and prey tell how do you know the scriptures that you use, that were complied and maintained by the Catholic Church for well over a 1000 years, was inspired by the holy spirt?
Your claims that the Church was lead astray also undermines the authority and legitimacy of the very same scriptures you claim as the only authority, because you only have them because the Church preserved them as the scripture.
@@BigBroTejano the Catholic Church believes so much extra dogma that is not in the Bible. The Holy Spirit did not add any of it it was man that did this.
The very very early church was not Roman Catholic. It may have been referred to as the Catholic Church - small c. Universal.
But that church evolved into the Roman Catholic Church with all it popes and saints and statues etc!
That is not how the very early church operated.
It has evolved into a massive institution that is nothing like the Church that Jesus started and the Apostles left behind.
It’s funny that you mentioned Methodists. One time RC Sproul was asked in a Q&A if Arminians were Christians. He paused and said, “Barely.” 😵 I still can’t get over that. I should pray for his soul.
Mr. Rogers changed careers.
And churches
The real problem with asking: "Are Catholics Christian" is that you're going to get intellectually wrecked if you ask a knowledgeable Catholic such an ignorant question.
Thanks Joe! Meeting you was the highlight of SEEK25!
Thanks! I had a blast meeting y'all at SEEK25.
"accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings" sounds like what Charlie Kirk said about getting himself a new pastor.
Sounds like the Roman Catholic Church.
@@mikekayanderson408 Went right over your ahead apparently, lol. Faithful Catholics don't choose their own teachers/pastors based on their own personal interpretations/beliefs. Catholic teaching is the same everywhere in the world, regardless of any particular priest or bishop, and has been that way for longer than Protestantism has existed. Protestants are the ones who self-admittedly shop around for a pastor "to suit their own likings," as Charlie Kirk recently admitted to Michael Knowles.
In principle, Protestants don't have any external incarnational authority that they submit to; they merely choose a sect that conforms to their own prior personal beliefs and interpretations. Catholic epistemology looks for the one true Church that can be traced back to Jesus, the Apostles, and their immediate successors in the 1st and 2nd centuries and then submits to the interpretations/beliefs of that Church, once found. Totally different approach than what Paul is talking about in 2 Tim 4:3 which resembles Protestant epistemology/"church-shopping."
@@mikekayanderson408 Trol, get off the keyboard...pray, contemplate, meditate on the love of Jesus and God's salvation plan for you. Hatred aura coming from you is screaming for repentence.
Are protestants christians? No
Are Catholics, and Orthodox christians? Yes
I disagree. I think that some Protestants genuinely ARE Christians, but that they have either intentionally or unintentionally separated themselves from Christ's Church and thus do not avail themselves of the Ordinary Means of Salvation via cooperation with God's Freely Given Grace as made available to us through the Sacraments.
Nothing of course is outside the grace, power, mercy, and justice of Almighty God. Therefore I would make no claim upon their salvation or lack thereof. Nor upon my own, for that matter.
Dominus vobiscum.
As long as you have a valid baptism, you are Christians😊
@@rangefinderz5135 They're more gnostics like the enemies of the catholic church.
i am coming to the point of agreeing with you.
You are wrong. I have been a Protestant all my life, but last year I joined the Catholic Church. I know both sides. Who is a Christian? He that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God, who died for our sins on the cross, and was raised again, and sitteth at the right hand of God, etc. (the Apostles' Creed, which we pray during the rosary) + is baptized. Furthermore, such a person tries to fulfill the commandments of Jesus - especially to love God with all his heart and his neighbor as himself. These criteria are met by both Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christians. The Magisterium of the Catholic Church also teaches that Protestants are our separated brothers and rightly deserve the name "Christians". So you deny the teaching of the Catholic Church. Protestants are just not in full communion with the universal (Catholic) Church. They also cannot enjoy all the gifts of grace - that is, the sacraments (but Protestant baptism is valid if it was performed in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). Many Protestants love Jesus more than most Catholics and are very active in evangelism and read the Bible daily and pray and attend church regularly. A Protestant has no sin if he does not know the truth through no fault of his own (he was brought up that way), but only follows his partial knowledge. I assume that Protestants who will be saved (go to heaven) will probably have to go through purgatory (but so will most Catholics).
I can say that the thing that decided me to become a Catholic was that I carefully read the Catholic Catechism. To my surprise, I found that I believe almost everything the same way. The exception was especially the Catholic faith in the Virgin Mary, or rather praying to her and to the saints. But that of course changed as I read other books on the subject and had interviews and watched Catholic videos on UA-cam.
FYI: The picture Joe shows at 35:00 is from the preface in the first printed bible in the German language, the so called Mentelin Bible, published by Johannes Mentelin in 1466.
HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? (But yes, you are right 🙂)
Don't get defensive? Nah, I go on the offensive :)
The best defense is...?
You can still undermine your position if all you do is attack theirs. Best case if you defeatthem without defendingyourself, both of you are wrong.
Yay! I'm glad the break is over. Hope you had a Merry Christmas, Joe and team!
That was good one.
God bless you Joe.
A protestant denying that catholic is christian.
Is like mickey mouse saying there is no Walt Disney.
If Catholics are Christian, then all demons must also be Christians, for the Bible say they do believe.
Lately I've found it difficult to have a meaningful discussion with aggressive Protestants (Protestants trolling Catholic channels), because they are generally uninterested in learning anything, only debating ad nauseum, and because youtube keeps deleting comments on both sides of the discussion. So, I'm often forced to reword and/or shorten my comments, and it almost always tends to take more time than it's worth.
This
Why bother. People with this kind of trolling/aggression and with this kind of mentality are usually are not right in the head to begin with. You give power to their simple minded views. peace
@@clattereffect the arguments are always the same:
The troll says something along the lines that Constantine invented catholicism to piggyback Roman Paganism.
He will then strawman arguments about "worshipping mary", "invoking dead saints is witchcraft", "buying your way into heaven with indulgences", and "Jesus as a wafer of bread". Then it's "pope is ant!christ, Rome is Babylon wh0re, etc" Among other similar insulting garbage.
Its all so repetitive and tiresome, I wish ignorant prods would just skip to the end and rage-quit at the very beginning instead.
The first words of the original protestant: “non serviam”. Hope you guess his name…..
IT IS A HISTORICAL FACT THAT THE VERY FIRST CATHOLIC PRIEST IS OUR DEAR LORD, JESUS CHRIST.
Moronism is strong within you
Thank you for this video🙏 i met you at the Seek25 Conference and talked to you about how to evangelize tight knit groups like Jehovas Witnesses and this video really is perfect for that! Once again I love the long form content.
It is a good structure to discuss this topic with others. The roadblock for us occurred when our sister had such disagreements (we went from Baptists to Catholic) and then tried to have discussions with our sister, but she wouldn't even discuss her positions much less let us discuss ours.
Great video. Thank you, Joe, for your great work and for sharing the gifts the Lord has given you.
Thank you for this pragmatic lecture Joe; It should be preached in all homolies throughout our churches because it seems the clergy are oblivious. 🎤🎤🎤🎤🎤💯❤️🙏
Very much appreciate this evangelical advice. I find it so hard to discuss this stuff without making things worse. And the stakes are so high.
Great job. Thank you.
Great video Brother Joe!
Id like to see a show from Joe for just Protestants explaining how and why we venerate Mary and how when they say we worship Her they're actually spreading lies intentionality.
If we don't defend or we defend without love, either way, Satan wins. Without love, we prove we are in fact "not Christian."
Are Catholics Christian? Yes.
Are Orthodox Christian? Yes.
Our Coptic Christians? Yes.
Are Protestants? Mostly, somewhat? And I'm not just being snarky, I mean they haven't fully been initiated into the church because they lack all the sacraments. I suppose by the broadest definition they are since they're baptized, but they have not yet fully entered into the body of Christ because they haven't received the body of Christ in the Eucharist.
And they don’t believe what most of Christianity has believed since the time of Christ
Honest question: how do Protestants deal with the marriage vow of “with my body I thee worship”? Do they think the spouses are becoming idolaters because they are worshipping someone else besides God?
They probably won’t choose that for their vows. It wasn’t even one of the options in the wedding prep book I looked at when I was married.
@ but it really goes beyond saying those exacts words in a vow to your partner. Even the relationship with God and Jesus is often viewed or described as a marriage (the love of God and His people is like a marriage and Jesus as our bridegroom) so if the Protestant accept that marriage is also an aspect of our relation with Our Lord how can those against any action that they view as exclusive to the worship of Him can be accepted, such as a Christian marriage? I don’t know if I am explaining myself. Or do they have a different conception of marriage, like a temporal union instead of becoming one flesh?
@ I agree with the spiritual implications you point out. I can’t speak for the views of all protestants, but when I was protestant I had never heard the word sacrament before let alone had any idea of marriage being a sacrament. It wasn’t looked well upon to divorce generally but remarriage wasn’t even considered as a problem.
@@eyrebear1199 how strange that our users name don’t appear. Okay so, remarriage wasn’t something wrong… but it was only civil unions or did you have something considered as a Protestant marriage? Because I just found out that anglicans also have that vow of worshiping.
I never heard of this saying during my father's vows, during his recent wedding. I never knew that was a saying.
Thank you for this! I like that i don't have to agree each sect's beliefs but put the emphasis on the church and biblical history. I was in my teens when someone told me that Catholics weren't Christians, I was flabbergasted.
Ikr. It is an absolutely ridiculous, insulting, and devious claim. Almost on the level of muslims claiming that Jesus is muslim. XD
“I say this with love”, to me is just a way of insulting and offending someone but cutting off their ability to state that they have been insulted or offended. It’s rude. If you are saying something with genuine love you don’t need to announce it in advance, it will be clear in your word choice and reasoning. It would also be clear in your willingness to hear the other person’s point of view. If you aren’t prepared to be polite and kind in your words and reasoning and you aren’t prepared to listen to the other person’s point of view then there is no love in your delivery but an expectation of love in the reception and that is not something done with love.
Trust me, we are.
Username checks out!
st ignatius of antiioch tell us we and heretic are christian. but true christians are catholic
I am curious what ignatius might have thought about the morman church
@@davidgallegos4771
Read his Letter to the Smyrnaeans. That will answer your question.
@@davidgallegos4771 he would’ve seen it as heretical because of the polygamy
Most Protestants knowledge of Catholicism comes from a mix of a generations long game of telephone, whig history, and poorly catechized Catholics who leave the church because of the poor catechesis repeating their on misunderstandings of Catholic teaching. I have yet to meet a Protestant criticizing Catholicism that actually understands what Catholics believe. I am a former Calvinist and many people tried to convince me not to be Catholic with many different arguments most of which were self evidently false just from reading what they Catholic Church says in the catechism and from plain reading of the biblical text without the Protestant filters.
Bingo
To be fair… when I was Protestant I asked several Catholics if they were Christian and they would say “No, I’m Catholic.”
32:37 did not realize Catholic church officially recognizes Christians that are not part of the Catholic church
The Catechism refers to Protestants are our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ (though separated) and expresses hope for Christian unity.
@bethanyjohnson8001 thank you Bethany
Because we need unity more than condemnation. We live in different times and we need to bring the lost sheep back to the flock.
What a fantastic video 🎉 these videos on the low church beliefs vs the Catholic/early Church beliefs are so beneficial to Christians everywhere. Love the part about Luther and the bible because I've heard too many Protestants buy into these myths. Great job Joe!
Classic Joe W 🥇 great video
I grew up in a vastly predominate Roman Catholic area as an at the time Southern Baptist, although now an Anglican. When the question of what religion a person subscribed to came up the standard Protestant or even Restorationist answer was Christian followed by a denominational note. When the Roman would respond it was nine times out of ten, "I'm not Christian, I'm Catholic." and when the Protestant said Catholics were Christians just of another denomination it was met with angry protest of how Catholics were not Christians. Do denominations worry about others? Sure. When I became an Anglican my parents called my SBC preacher kin to verify I was still a Christian. But in this case, some of your own are actively working against you.
Yup we are human and subject to sin just like everyone else. Those sins sometimes come even from the Vatican but ultimately, despite its sinful members, the Catholic church has the true doctrine of Jesus.
Do american Protestants have an idea about something called "history"?
This is what happens when people devoid of The Mission of The Church, start their own "seminaries". The mountain of pride they create that separates them is insurmountable without grace, which is difficult once detached from the source of Sacramental Grace, The Church.
The real problem is that it really is a stupid question.
A better question is, are apostate protestants saved?
We're Catholics and we know what what we believe in . And as a Catholic i wont be swayed by such unnecessary and lowly based arguments. I love the presention. God bless you
2:59. Joe! I’m RIGHT HERE!
I like this video, Joe. Lessons in humility, vol. 1
11:30 it also pits St. Paul against Jesus. That's one thing I never understand about faith alone. Is I mean you can't earn your salvation but if you don't allow that faith to inform your life, then at the end you're going to be a goat and not a sheep, because you didn't feed the hungry or clothe the naked or love your neighbor as yourself. In other words, you sin by omission and like the Pharisees who didn't care for the poor, you'll be left in the darkness with grinding and gnashing of teeth.
I don’t get that either. If Paul had the gospel and Jesus didn’t, why do they call themselves CHRISTian. Maybe they should call themselves Paulian.
It has been said that Protestants take an “either-or” approach to biblical exegesis whereas the Catholic approach is “both-and”. There are parts of the Bible that say faith is required for salvation; parts that describe salvation as a grace; and other parts that say works are necessary for salvation. The Catholic says yes to all whereas a Protestant must pick and choose and then explain away the other parts.
Parts of the Bible say we must follow apostolic tradition and parts say we must adhere to the scriptures. Catholics say yes
Parts of the Bible talk about memorized prayer, parts talk about spontaneous prayer, parts talk about meditative prayer, parts talk about public prayer, parts talk about praying in private. Catholics say yes
Parts of the Bible talk about how Jesus will build his Church on the foundation which is Peter. Other parts talk about Jesus being the foundation and others talk about the apostles as the foundation. Catholics say yes
There’s a part of the Bible that describes Peter alone as having the power to “bind and loose” and another part that, in another sense, ascribes that authority to all of the apostles together. Catholics say yes
Etc…..
WE ARE the ORIGINAL CHRISTIANS 😊
cradle OG Christian here.
Thank you,
I first didn’t really like this, because i think we need a robust answer to the Protestants running their mouths since 500 years.
But as soon as you started low key calling people heretics, you had me onboard. 😆
Great root issue vid. I call this "the drill down". We need more treatments like this to assist in real daily conversations. Thanks.
Grew up in northeast US, most Christians I met WERE Catholic. I didn't realize there was an anti-Catholic sentiment until I moved South.
I expect some (not all) protestant denominations feel the need to justify why their brand is correct, and start with what they perceive Catholics to be erroneous on. It seemed like part of the formation education.
I didn't really have the same thing the other way in CCD.
Fortunately, if Catholic viewers are ever pressed, the Catechism has excellent overviews of a TON of our beliefs, and Catholic Answers (especially folks like Joe) are also a great resource.
Someone has most likely already answered whatever objection you are getting very articulately centuries ago.