I meant to have this uploaded a couple days ago, but... let's just say editing is not my strongsuit. What did you love most about the Penguin? What do you think about villains being turned into anti-heroes? When do you think it works, or is it always a problem?
I think there is one thing that the Penguin did that no other show did, actually allow the audience to have an accurate response to him in the end. Because of Victor's death, Penguin's charismatic hold on us gets broken and we finally understand why The Penguin is a villain that needs to go down. Usually, we only see theatrics but in real life, all of this would be seen and we'd feel nothing but "no, they deserve a horrible ending, they took the lives of innocents and caused a lot of suffering". If Victor didn't exist in this show, we'd never get the lesson that as much fun as watching a show with a terrible human being dubbed a villain is, those people exist(Ed Gein, Ted Bundy, Diddy, Hitler, etc) and have hurt people we care and love. That's why the good guys should always have to win. I am glad this cleared Sofia's role as well. She too was a horrible human being but unlike the Penguin, despite all the bad that she's done, she was never heartless and did have the spark for redemption. That scene of her crying after talking to Gia over Sofia committing familicide made her realize her rage caused nothing but long term-suffering to that innocent girl which Sofia's father also caused for Sofia, her brother and her mother, something Sofia ultimately wanted to distance herself from but at the same time, she wanted someone to pay to quench her rage. Sofia was very vengeful, but outside of her vengefulness, she never wanted to hurt anybody. So now the thing to wonder is, will she choose to just let it all go and finally redeem herself or stay a vindictive murderer who won't stop killing until everyone who hurt her had died, regardless of how many would suffer because of that? She is what you don't like about all those other movies except her broken evil presence balances Penguin's pure evil presence which also ends up making her a cherished character of the show. In Avatar the Last Airbender terms, she's morally speaking kind of a mix of Zuko and Azula.
@magicman3163 That's... scary. I really don't think that was the writers' intention, and I really hope you're not condoning brutal, cold-blooded atrocities for no reason other than personal ambition. Being poor by itself isn't that bad, and frankly, he doesn't seem to have actually been as poor as he'd like everyone to think. The man is clearly a narcissist and sociopath who uses everyone around him for his own gain, killing anyone he starts to care about when he feels that closeness becoming a potential weakness, and only really "loving" his mother inasfar as she serves his ego by validating him and providing a justification for his actions. The scary thing about this show is that it makes him so likeable and relateable (I was rooting for him for most of it even though I knew I shouldn't be), but in the end it goes out of its way to reveal what a scumbag he is and make sure you don't think he's any kind of hero for anyone. If that's the kind of character you root for, that's honestly just scary.
Though if, when you say you're "rooting for" Oz, you just mean you can understand and sympathize for him, there's nothing wrong with that. I understand and kind of sympathize for him, he's still somewhat likable in his charming sort of way, but that doesn't mean I think anything he does is justified or that I want him to succeed. I want Batman to give him everything he's got coming sooner or later in the next movies, and I'm going to love watching it. Just to clarify that you can relate to a character without cheering them on.
I meant to have this uploaded a couple days ago, but... let's just say editing is not my strongsuit. What did you love most about the Penguin? What do you think about villains being turned into anti-heroes? When do you think it works, or is it always a problem?
I think there is one thing that the Penguin did that no other show did, actually allow the audience to have an accurate response to him in the end. Because of Victor's death, Penguin's charismatic hold on us gets broken and we finally understand why The Penguin is a villain that needs to go down. Usually, we only see theatrics but in real life, all of this would be seen and we'd feel nothing but "no, they deserve a horrible ending, they took the lives of innocents and caused a lot of suffering".
If Victor didn't exist in this show, we'd never get the lesson that as much fun as watching a show with a terrible human being dubbed a villain is, those people exist(Ed Gein, Ted Bundy, Diddy, Hitler, etc) and have hurt people we care and love. That's why the good guys should always have to win.
I am glad this cleared Sofia's role as well. She too was a horrible human being but unlike the Penguin, despite all the bad that she's done, she was never heartless and did have the spark for redemption. That scene of her crying after talking to Gia over Sofia committing familicide made her realize her rage caused nothing but long term-suffering to that innocent girl which Sofia's father also caused for Sofia, her brother and her mother, something Sofia ultimately wanted to distance herself from but at the same time, she wanted someone to pay to quench her rage. Sofia was very vengeful, but outside of her vengefulness, she never wanted to hurt anybody. So now the thing to wonder is, will she choose to just let it all go and finally redeem herself or stay a vindictive murderer who won't stop killing until everyone who hurt her had died, regardless of how many would suffer because of that?
She is what you don't like about all those other movies except her broken evil presence balances Penguin's pure evil presence which also ends up making her a cherished character of the show. In Avatar the Last Airbender terms, she's morally speaking kind of a mix of Zuko and Azula.
"a mix of Zuko and Azula."
Azukola?
madame web is not a villian
I still root for penguin he doesn’t want to be poor again that’s relatable
@magicman3163 That's... scary. I really don't think that was the writers' intention, and I really hope you're not condoning brutal, cold-blooded atrocities for no reason other than personal ambition. Being poor by itself isn't that bad, and frankly, he doesn't seem to have actually been as poor as he'd like everyone to think. The man is clearly a narcissist and sociopath who uses everyone around him for his own gain, killing anyone he starts to care about when he feels that closeness becoming a potential weakness, and only really "loving" his mother inasfar as she serves his ego by validating him and providing a justification for his actions. The scary thing about this show is that it makes him so likeable and relateable (I was rooting for him for most of it even though I knew I shouldn't be), but in the end it goes out of its way to reveal what a scumbag he is and make sure you don't think he's any kind of hero for anyone. If that's the kind of character you root for, that's honestly just scary.
Though if, when you say you're "rooting for" Oz, you just mean you can understand and sympathize for him, there's nothing wrong with that. I understand and kind of sympathize for him, he's still somewhat likable in his charming sort of way, but that doesn't mean I think anything he does is justified or that I want him to succeed. I want Batman to give him everything he's got coming sooner or later in the next movies, and I'm going to love watching it. Just to clarify that you can relate to a character without cheering them on.
madame web is not a villian mate