Shooting the M14: Full Auto Really Uncontrollable?
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2018
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Today we are out shooting the H&R M14 "Guerrilla Gun" prototype, but fitted with a standard M14 stock and barrel. With these parts, it handles and fires exactly like a standard M14 - so I can answer the most pertinent question:
Is the M14 really so uncontrollable in full auto?
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Heh, that's barely any muzzle rise at all *Switches M14 to full auto*
Round 1 hits enemy soldier
Round 2 hits enemy helicopter
Round 3 hits enemy high altitude bomber
Round 4 hits enemy satellite
A weapon fit to defeat the entirety of the Soviet weapons inventory with one trigger pull.
What a wonder weapon!!With a M14 instead of StG44 at hand, Germans can easily shoot down the B-29s over Berlin!
* Eagle screams at maximum volume *
By around round 10 he’s on his back and shooting back at his squadron.
Does that make him a communist?
This guy has one of those jobs that my high school guidance counselor failed to mention
You and me both
Yes we were gypped
2:58 I can watch this all day.
They don't tell you about any of the good jobs. They want you to be as depressed and defeated as they are at their job 😂
Tsuiso Sim Drifting lol
The old joke is that the "A" on the selector stands for "Anti-aircraft", as most folks will be shooting at airplanes very shortly after squeezing the trigger. Love the weapon. Earned ribbons with an M14.
That is so funny I actually laughed that is such a good gun joke man👍
@@HAVOXXXX Folks are so used to thinking in terms of 5.56 NATO that they forget that the M14 is chambered for 7.62 NATO, found on the shelf at the gun store as .308 Winchester, one of the most popular rounds for deer and elk.
This is probably not the best choice of weapon to play Rambo and attempt to fire from the hip on FA. The muzzle WILL climb. Rapidly.
Can you answer in more detail?
@@AbigailWhite-wn2ie the M14 uses a 7.62 NATO round. The bullet is .30 inches in diameter. The civilian equivalent is the .308 Winchester, a very popular big-game cartridge used for hunting deer, elk, etc.
The M16/M4 fires the 5.56 NATO round. The bullet diameter is about .223 inches. The civilian equivalent is .223 Remington.
The 7.62 NATO round is larger and more powerful than the 5.56 NATO round, so much so that the .223 Remington is illegal for hunting deer in the State of WA.
As for the joke, the more powerful the round, the more recoil (kick) the weapon will have, and the more the muzzle (end of barrel) will lift when it is fired.
The 7.62 NATO round is powerful enough that most men of average size will have no chance to control the muzzle rise/lift when firing the weapon in the fully-automatic mode.
The "A" on the M14 selector switch stands for "AUTO". It is jokingly referred to as "Anti-Aircraft" because if you hold the trigger back, the muzzle will continue to rise until you are firing up in the air where only birds and aircraft normally reside.
The solution is to NOT hold the trigger back. An experienced operator of an M14 will have enough control over the trigger that they can place the weapon on "AUTO" and easily fire 2-3 round bursts. A person without experience will not have this level of control, and muzzle rise will have them firing up in the air (anti-aircraft) due to muzzle rise before they can let off the trigger.
The much lower power of the 5.56 NATO allows it to be fired full-auto without encountering this problem. There are videos out there which show 10-yo little girls at the range happily firing rifles such as the AR-15 chambered for this round.
@@kevincrosby1760 I should know this. But was the M14 ever produced with 3 Round Burst capability? It certainly seems like it would be more appropriate, though if it was a “common” skill to pull 3-4 shot bursts on auto it might be simpler to just have semi/auto. I have a transferable Ruger AC556 (Select Fire Mini-14 with Semi/3RdBurst/Auto) and it’s enough for me to handle in full auto as a 6’5”/230lb guy. 7.62 NATO is certainly most enjoyable from a M60/M240.
It’s so insane that someone said “yeah, this dual-fills the SMG role”
The Ordinance Corps: Being R-Slurred since WW1
Well when you're within 50 yards like you would with an smg I think it's definitely suitable
Especially with the shooting stance people were trained in for smgs back in the day, firing literally from the hip makes it a lot easier to control
@@astartesrex Yes, fully automatic fire in a full-power rifle cartridge is pretty retarded if you’re not even gonna have a pistol grip, let alone a vertical fore-grip. We could’ve had the G3 or the FAL which been way better in that sort of role.
@@zello8722with that rate of fire and a 20 round mag it still wouldnt fill the SMG role even while shooting from the hip
R. Lee Ermy "I wanna see your war face!"
Gun Jesus "WHHAAAA"
rawhide 37 BULLSHIT I CANT HEAR YOU!!
I'm not scared, work on it.
A jelly doughnut
Why is everybody storing their soap in socks?
For the party! :)
this is what I like to think
M14 (Semi): Sensible, light recoil, Accurate and modern
M14 (Full-Auto): *confused screaming*
"Light recoil" is a relative term...
*confused recoil control*
@@sergarlantyrell7847 compared to other rifles that came before it, and also compared to the full auto
If beavis and butthead were to ever have full autos this would be it.
@@beast0339 personally feel that the m14 has more felt recoil than the m1 garand.
Imagine shouting "cover me" and a barrage of M14s in full auto comes up.
Only take cover for the first 2 seconds 😂
Fuck everything in front of the firing line and over it and behind it XD
they guy who said cover me probably got like 50 rounds to the back
@@ronaldthompson4989 Above it*, and 3 miles behind it*
@@sirnotappearinginthisfilm2037 He was covered by bullets
I like how Ian is usually very analytical and objective but sometimes he’s just really goofy and having way too much fun.
USA: We will not accept less than .30 caliber.
*USA shoots the M14*
USA: Ok nevermind let's get the M16
Limpet Arch only took about 20 years
Actually:
USA: We will not accept less than .30 caliber!
USA: Shoots M14. Fuck yes! I mean we have to tinker with the auto--
McNamara: What? I can't sell these to 5'2" South Vietnamese!
McNamara: Buys M16.
USA: (Sulks) Packs M14's carefully into boxes for 40-50 years.
USA-in-Afghanistan: Hey, guys... we can't hit those guys from here. Too far away.
USA: Unpacks M14's...
Todkaninchen unfortunately.
While the cartridge was desirable, the only tool we had access to that could deliver it was garbage that we hadn’t been able to get rid of for 50 years.
@@otetechie There were other options but yeah. The M14 is a bit quirky at this point. First, unlike almost all of its competitors, it was not designed for a commercial market. So any modularity is just happenstance and stock tuning becomes a thing.
Todkaninchen those other options weren’t options at the time. The M14 was used until it could be replaced. The SCAR 17 and 20, SR25 and M110, H&K 417 and M110A1 have been replacing M14’s as quickly as possible for decades now.
The M14 may have been a terrible tool, but any hammer is better than no hammer until they can be procured.
We would have been much better off with an FAL or G3. We just didn’t have piles of them we couldn’t get rid of.
I really like the aesthetic of Ian's ninja 'WAAAHHH'
I detected a little of the Bruce Lee in that moment too!
I kinda got more of a Cornholio vibe from it.
Lmao just thinking that
I thought he learned to shoot an M14 from John McCain.
He definitely needs more full auto weapons!.
As a range officer in Vietnam, I watched a Colonel make a fool of himself firing an M-14 on full auto. The rifle rose in a quarter circle arc till it was pointing straight in the air. It was uncontrollable, at least by him.
WTF is a range officer in Vietnam....how far in the rear were you????
@@fourseasons2349 What was a rear area in Vietnam?
It was uncontrollable by me, semiauto is the way I carried the damn thing.
@@boondocker7964 it's a function of training or lack of. Navy expected SA. FA was something that I learned by dint of having access to a base armory and range where it was allowed, and nothing else to do with a large number of Saturdays. I simply felt that the designer of the weapon did NOT intend for the weapon to be an anti-aircraft platform, and that the problem was ME.
Think of it as the difference between grabbing a revolver and firing it single-action Vs. Double-action. You don't squeeze off a shot with an M14 in FA, you gently caress the trigger until it barks, then let off. If you pull that trigger much past the break point, you'll have half a mag downrange before you can release it past the disconnect point. Hard to explain. Pretty much loose and sensitive enough that the weapon discharging pulls the trigger off of your finger as you are tickling the trigger. You WILL go through a lot of half-empty magazines before you learn it.
I've had some experience with the National Match M14, it had enough recoil that l was skeptical about its practicality in full auto. Thanks for the video! Nice to have my suspicions confirmed. You always have good content! ❤
The Army's hand held anti-aircraft weapon.
LoL
@@heroinmom153 My neighbor started his army career as a 2nd Lt. He did his first tour of Vietnam in 1966, wading through rice paddys. I had asked him which rifle they had used. He told me that they had originally trained with the M-14 in basic, but were issued the M-16 once they had arrived in country. I have a suspicion that your dad probably used an M-16, but then you never know for sure. You might watch some of the video shot during the battle for Khe Sanh to get a better idea. My neighbor retired after 29 years of active duty as a full bird colonel, then became a teacher & guidance councilor for another 29 years before officially retiring. He is going to be 82 next month.
@@heroinmom153 B-52's were more effective a Khe Sanh than M14's. M14 doesn't do any good if you can't see your target or even know which hill the target is hiding on.
M14 designer: "so, how powerful do you want the M14 to be"
US Army: "yes"
That's not how it works but I know that was a joke lol.
@John Deez Well said, but sad to say in vain. Nothing gets through to these attention seeking fools.
I bet this thing would be great in .223
@@ididthisforthecomments.5893 is that a joke? If so lmfao
@@ididthisforthecomments.5893 Yea it exists already. Its called a Mini-14.
my grandfather was a marine in Vietnam and in his words shooting the m14 full auto was like riding a pissed off bull that missed lunch
That probably is accurate, but, I never rode a bull.
😂😂
Pretty straight forward. A hangry animal weighing nearly 800lbs has this small meat bag on its back and is pretty sure it's the reason it missed lunch.
Just think of what it must be like to shoot with the lightened short barrel and folding stock.
Himmul Khan they gave some of these guns to the ARVN so you can imagine how fun it was for them
When I was in the Corps back in the late sixties. I was told in full auto the most important part of the weapon as the sling. Wrapping it around your arm helped with the control issues.
SEMPER FI BROTHER 0331
Exactly! I about cried the day they took my M14 and gave me that poodle shooter.
@@ramblinwithwreck Sounds like sometimes you gotta force the marines to take the better stuff xD
The same thought occurred to me. Why doesn't that rifle have a sling, and particularly when used in full auto? Surely, he could have borrowed a sling someplace?
@@kodiakkeith Nyet. Rifle is fine
The most emotion I have ever seen him show lol “I have to psyche myself up for this.”
The .308 is a *real* rifle round, as opposed to the 5.56.
The kick of that round is normal for rifle rounds.
M14 in semi auto: "it's to big and heavy"
M14 in full auto: "Hot dang that thing is way to light!!"
Dang, worst of both worlds. No wonder we switched to the M16.
Course, that had it's own bundle of issues...
MachineMan1992
Seriously tho.
The M16 is great but like you said it's not without issue
One being it's chambered in a mouse caliber... ;)
@@johnt4060 I've heard stories of guys turning around and looking at the guy who shot them, because the 5.56 NATO had zero stopping power. Why did we even use the 5.56, it's an up-gunned .22. Why not something a little more substantial like the 7.62X39-- oh.
MachineMan1992
Two reasons the US adopted the 5.56
1. It's cheap. Dirt cheap... The government will do anything and everything to save a buck, Need i say more?
2. It's said the 5.56 was adopted with the intention of maiming the enemy and not directly killing them.
Because when you kill a soldier obviously they just put them in the ground, say "RIP" and that's it, whereas if you injured or maimed the enemy not only do you take them out of the fight but it's costing their government a $&@# ton of money in medical expenses. Kind of killing two birds with one stone.
MachineMan1992
Personally, if i was a little kid heading for war I'd want at least a 308 or something that can actually stop an enemy
2:54 “Here we go”
*Enables inner warrior”
“WAAAAHH”
*Crash bandicot theme appears outa nowhere*
It sounded like mario to me
"Lemme see your war face" *clicks timestamp*
"Dang. Wow"
Waluigi has joined the call
When I arrived in country in Oct. of 67, I was initially issued a brand new m16. It jammed on me and a couple of guys who tried it. I went to the armory and they gave me another one. It did the same! When I took it back the armorer said I didn't need one anyway because I was a radioman! When I complained that I wanted a long gun as well as a 45, I think they just wanted to give me a rock to carry! They eventually gave me an m14 with a sear switch AND a bipod. Probably laughed as I walked off with it and 4 magazines!
No matter how many muddy rice paddies I wallowed in, that rifle never jammed! More than once its barrel became plugged up with mud and if it was still wet, a round would clear the barrel. That was probably stupid to do, but I was a 19 year old Marine in Vietnam with a whip antenna marking my position; I was going to die anyway!
After a month or two, I took the bipod off and put a jungle sling on it and went my kind-of-merry way!
I think I only fired it in anger 2 or 3 times. The radio kept me busy!
Other guys fired it more than I did when they wanted the long range accuracy. It always had the selector switch and it truly was a wonderful weapon....unless you fired it in full auto.
I seem to remember that with the bipod it was a bit more controllable! But I don't remember firing it in a firefight on full auto with the bipod!
I'd like to see you try the M-15, the squad automatic weapon version of the M14. The one they issued me had a heavier stock, a thick barrel, a bipod, a hinged buttplate for prone firing, a pistol grip stock, and a forward pistol grip. They gave it to me because I'd figured out how to score full-auto hits with the M14. It also helped that I was a big guy who could carry lots of extra magazines. If you ever get a chance to try one out, I think you'll enjoy the experience.
Fred's M14 Stocks used to have a few E2 stocks for sale.
I don't know how many they sold though
You can get an M1A with a heavy barrel. I shot one when I was 14 and weighed 130 lbs and it had hardly any kick. It was a heavy bastard though
@@jackargie1092 The M15 Squad Automatic Weapon was a modified M14 developed as a replacement for the .30-06 M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle for use as a squad automatic weapon. As with the M14, it was chambered for 7.62×51mm NATO. It featured a heavier barrel and stock, two pistol grips (one fixed, one folding) a hinged butt plate, a selector switch for fully automatic fire, a bipod, and used the standard BAR sling.
Firing tests showed that the M14, when equipped with the selector switch, hinged butt plate and bipod, performed as well as the M15. As a result, the M15 was dropped and the modified M14 became the squad automatic weapon. Accuracy and control problems with this variant led to the addition of a pistol grip, a folding rubber-covered metal foregrip and a muzzle stabilizer. However, it remained a poor suppressive fire weapon owing to its 20-round magazines and a tendency to rapidly overheat. That report i found seems to suggest that there were rifles built and test against the variant you listed "M14E1/2". Perhaps the few that were made were just listed as m14E model after testing had ended.
@@dr.bendover3311 I’m guessing I meant “issued” in my original comment and not built. They were built, but only prototypes for testing. It is pretty much the same thing as the M14E2 though, which was actually issued to troops and that’s probably what the guy in the parent comment used.
@@jackargie1092 nah i've read up on them since, the prototypes that originally were called the m15 were later issued as the m14E variants with the only difference being the barrel was thicker and they were full auto, This is speculation but the normal m14 auto variant, just an m14 with a auto seer, was fielded with very minimal success due to the gun having so much recoil it was uncontrollable, i'm wondering did they field the m15 as test like the original and found its no different or maybe impractical due to the army already having the m60 and the xm4 which later became the m16A1 was in development and already in use with minor use in SF units in vietnam at the time.
The full auto feature was implemented for when the bushes started talking Vietnamese
Vietnamese speaking bushes? I've only ever had that happen when I was on acid.
Lt. Dan, is that you?
@@colt45peacemaker Depends...do you have some ice cream to give me?
Europa Uber Alles well yes...that is why the government tries so hard to disarm the public. You ever see how the libtards foam at the mouth saying we wouldn’t last against the US military with just AR15s? Lol, well first most of the military would be with us and second...imagine pissed off highly patriotic citizens with guns...you can’t fight unconventional warfare...it’s a waste of time and you will never win...been proven time and time again. That is why they want to do like Hitler did...promise peace and disarm the country...that is the only way to get total control and soon enough there will be plenty of imbeciles that will fall in line...the difference, unlike in Germany in the 30s, is there are millions willing to die before that happens. So the democrats are trying to play it safe but they are getting impatient and it will lead to an armed conflict that will see them dead and then this country will be a better place again.
Europa Uber Alles honestly if things stayed in the current state or got worse there isn’t much worth. It’s very depressing, honestly. I would like to see someone with morals take total control and re-establish values and wipe out immorality. The way current things are it’s the only way to do it quickly...if at all.
The M14 was designed "in the days of wooden rifles and iron men", as my great grandfather would say.
The days of no "tacticool" just got it done.
the M14 is a lousy service rifle
@@rdablock it was a good service rifle, it was just 10 years too late.
@@MarvelousSeven The middle child.
Between the elder Garand and younger M16.
@@MarvelousSeven Not entirely sure of that. By the time the americans adopted the M14, the armies of Europe had already adopted battle rifles like the FAL or the G3, and those lasted until the 80s and beyond in active service. The M14 got replaced so very quickly, you can't help but feeling it was a mistake adopting it in the first place... Of course, you could counter-argue that the M14's replacement was not a testament of it's own faults, but of the M16's virtues
Yeah, carried one in Nam. But on semi-auto I found it to be very accurate.
Welcome home brother 0331 M60
How did it do on auto from prone position?
So why not just use a M1?
@@jeffreygao3956Who in God's name is carrying an M1 carbine (or garand) in Vietnam? I'd rather have a weapon which the whole platoon is carrying.
@@boringdude1626 Because it’s actually better than the M14?
I was issued an M-14 for training purposes back in 1960-61. I had to give up my M1-Garand. The M-14 I got had no automatic feature. It had been removed as a lot of them had been removed. The thing shot well, but after a few magazines, it tended to jam after the 5th-6th round. The M1 did that too, when it got real hot. Then the Army needed combat medics and I was plucked from the infantry. Fired an M-16 in a desperate situation once, and that was it. The M1 is still my go to rifle, but I also like my AR-15.
Is it uncontrollable?
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: LMAO YES
@Libertate Veritas longest answer: bruh how tf do i keep this shit from dislocating my shoulder and bursting my eardrums
Yes...good on semi and short burst only. Auto required more mags, which are very heavy. Better for longer range and fighting in bush.
It's only controllable when you're tall muscular dude like Arnold and Sylvester
Just change the muzzle break and it solves that problem...see other YT videous
Depends. It's great if you like putting holes in clouds. Can't be beat for that.
2:59 "Wooaaaahhhhgggh!" -
Forgotten Weapons
I paused the vid, smiled, scrolled down looking for a 2:59 callout, smiled again when I found it., resumed vid.
Watch the video with the closed captioning on. I think you'll enjoy it.
Its how Bruce Lee shot a rifle...
@@mattharrisnj this is exactly what i did 😂😂😂
Mickey Dickkener beat me to it lol
I was issued my first M-14 in Army basic in 1966 and I love it still !! The last battle rifle..a classic beauty. I own it's M1A twin.
Love the m1a. Has no kick with the heavy barrel. Its a heavy bastard with it though
M1 Garand and M14. Best damn battle rifles invented.
@@wyomarine6341, Never been a fan of the 5.56mm as a combat round. Not enough take down power.
Back around 1968, I had a chance to fire an M14. We had the E2 version with the stock and bipod. We were only allowed to fire full auto prone with a bipod. 1-It walked around on the bipod. 2-After the first three rounds it was impossible to see the target through the dust cloud.
"This is really a lot of hand-full of gun... This thing greys out your world when you pull the trigger." Ian McCollum, 2018
He forgot to add it blacks out the other guy's ... but only if your PoA is his right boot ...
I prefer, " PFFFFHWUUUUAAAAAHHH!!!!" @ 2:57
Lewis Glen same man
A phrase I will be looking for any excuse to use
Aim for right boot - 1st round barely misses, 2nd round hits him in the face, 3rd Round hits a tree 3700m away
How many minute-of-berm does this shoot in full-auto?
I feel like you comment should have more likes then it does.
@sman7290 lol
ROTFLMAO. 🤣
More like minute-of-hillside tbh
Hahhahahah
The M14 is an awesome weapon in semi auto I trained with it prior to going to Vietnam . A decent shot could hit a target at 400 meters something which is difficult with the M16 which replace it.
It is no harder to hit a target at 400 Meters with an M-16/AR-15 than the M-14/M1A, except perhaps i na strong crosswind.
@@jacobmccandles1767 IF the operator has been trained to do so. Whether or not the enemy falls over after being hit also comes into play.
A lot of M14s got dusted off and shipped to places with names ending in "stan" for exactly this reason. The 5.56 round just wasn't as effective for long-range combat. A large heavy unwieldy weapon in 7.62 when going door-to-door is also less than optimal.
Each platform has it's uses. If you are in an environment where you are wondering if your sidearm might not be a better choice than your M16/M4, you probably don't want an M-14.
As a civilian, I don't look to my scoped .30-06 for home defense, and I don't take the barely-legal 12-Ga deer hunting. They each have their proper use. (My EDC is chambered for .45ACP, some things are just ALWAYS appropriate to bring to the party)
@@kevincrosby1760 I agree with you for the most part, but....
The M-14 came out to play in A-stan as a DMR rifle, not an infantry rifle. The M-14s of A-stan were highly accurized, essentially scoped out National Match rifles. The M-14 of Vietnam was a shot out, chrome flaking, rusted, stock-swollen nightmare, with a wandering zero that couldn't be trusted to connect with a man past 200 yards, but fortunately didn't have to. It weighed too much and so did it's ammo. Moreover, there were horrible quality control issues at the manufacturer. At the end of the day, a box magged Garand is no match for the AK, but it DID almost always go *BANG*, something the early M-16s didn't always do.
Ballistically, the M4 starts ice picking at aboue 200 Meters, and the M16a2 in use by the USMC early in the conflict doing so past 400 Meters or so. In the mountainous areas, fighting against bolt action battle rifles and SVD knock offs, as well as PKMs, a .30 Cal DMR rifle was desireable... but I would also submit to you the notion that the only reason to choose the M-14 in this role is that they were in inventory. Almost any 2" grouping semi-auto "deer rifle" or AR-10 would have done the trick about as well.
the as-issued infantry M-14 was the shortest serving general issue rifle in U.S. service for a number of very good reasons. Some of these reasons just killed the XM5 programme.
@@kevincrosby1760 about that last part...I don't use my '06 for HD, but I DO take the barely legal 12ga deer hunting (18" cyl bore Ithaca M-37). The .45 is never wrong for CCW, but I don't think any of the various service calibers have much of an edge. 9, 40, 45, 10mm, 357 Sig... whatever you like. I don't feel poorly armed with any of them. I carry 9mm and 10mm the mosy...but it was .22lr, .380, .44mag, and (oddly) .44 Cap-n-ball that were there to save my ass those times when the fecal matter hit the oscillating ventilator.
I carried one just like it (H&R w/full auto selector) in Nam. USMC You need to lean into it and just fire 2/3 round bursts. It's not made for mag dumps although I did chop down a tree with mine once. LOVED that weapon! Thanks for the video!
**Aims at person**
Achievement: Took down spy-plane
i hate to be a redditor, but im your 420th like
Im your 477th like
I'm your 580 like
i am like
I’m the 723rd
When I joined the Marine Corps in 1967, I trained with the M-14. When I went to The Basic School in 1968 (Marine basic officer's school) I trained with the M-14. When I arrived in Vietnam at the end of December 1968, I was issued an M-16.
I had only seen the M-16 in pictures but had never received training with it or fired it. The battalion armorer showed my how to disassemble it, and I fired a few rounds for familiarization. I was then assigned as an infantry platoon commander for 10 months. I found it odd that the Marine Corps didn't train me with the rifle I was to use in combat.
Other odd aspects of my Marine training in 1967-68:
We used the 3.5 rocket launcher in training, but in Vietnam we used the M-72 LAAW.
We used the flamethrower in training, but in Vietnam we used the M-202 flame rocket launcher
In training, we didn't use the Flak Jacket, but in Vietnam we wore Flak Jackets
In training we didn't wear camouflage uniforms, but in Vietnam we had camouflage uniforms
In training we wore black leather boots, but in Vietnam we work the Jungle boot.
In training we carried a gas mask, but in Vietnam we didn't
In training we were taught conventional tactics with only a couple of days of how to secure a Vietnam village, but in Vietnam we rarely operated in company and battalion formations. 90% of the time we were operating in squad and platoon formations out by ourselves.
In training, we didn't carry heavy loads except on the forced marches, but in Vietnam we typically carried anywhere between 60-100 pounds depending on the operation and the environment.
Back to the M-14. It was heavy and bulky to carry, but the .30 cal round had real stopping power. It would blast through cinder blocks and other thick materials with ease where as the M-16 didn't have that kind of stopping power. I prefer the semiautomatic fire of the M-14 for fire discipline and aimed fire as opposed to the fully automatic tendency in Vietnam to "spray and pray" when recon'ing by fire or in a firefight.
And the M-14 could use a rifle grenade. If the M-16 had one, I never saw it. We did have an M-79 grenade launcher which was on of the best weapons we had in Vietnam. But the M-14 could launch a larger grenade further. So at least one Marine in my platoon carried an M-14 in case we needed the substantially greater impact to go through walls and fortifications that the M-16 couldn't penetrate. I also used it to launch rifle grenades as a quick indirect fire weapon until my 60 mm mortar could get into action.
Bottom line, I preferred the power of the M-14 but I did like the fact that the M-16 was easier to carry and we could carry more rounds. It's why I used both in my platoon in Vietnam 50 years ago.
What launcher did you use in basic
That happens all the time, I read once about a Marine unit getting back from Arctic warfare training then being shipped out to Vietnam! What you said about the one guy with the M14 has sorta come back with the Platoon Designated Marksman.
Thank you much for the experienced insight! So much of what I hear is through the rumor mill of people who weren't even born during that time and this comment was fascinating to read!
I went to Boot at PI in 69' ... We were issued the M-14...got to ITR and we fired the M-16 to familiarize and also the BAR. When we requalified at the range we always used the M-14. I loved the 14 for its accuracy and stopping power...I would love to have the civilian version. 7.62 NATO round is a good choice IMO...Sempre Fi
Thank you so much for all the incredible details of your service and basic training in Vietnam. It's amazing that when it came to training new recruits they did not train them in how to use or handle any of the items that you guys later used in Vietnam. It also amazes me that they just didn't use any of the tactics that you guys did in training and then they dropped those tactics as soon as you guys got to Vietnam. I can see the frustration of having to go thru all that training and then you are suddenly introduced to new equipment that you've never used before, & performing tactics that you've never trained for. It seems like your platoon and you had to adopt, adapt and improve on the fly as soon as you got to Vietnam, rather than having basic training teaching you guys how to handle the situation you guys were to about to jump into. It just goes to show that the people in charge of the war had no plan of how to fight it or even win the war.
It was also strange that as soon as they wanted to replace the M14 Rifle with the M16 Rifle, that they did not train new recruits how to use this rifle in combat. I also wondered why in the movie Full Metal Jacket why they were training with M14 Rifles when the M16 Rifle was no in service and then they just used the M16 rather than what they trained with in basic. Now, I understand. May I ask, were your platoon issued cleaning kits for the M16 Rifle? And did you have any problems with the rifle when you first used it?
Thank you so much for service in Vietnam and welcome home!
I had a runaway malfunction with my M1 once and let me tell you that action on full auto yields one hell of a rate of fire IDK why they ever thought purposefully making it full auto was a good idea lol.
I’m no kind of gun guy but I appreciate the knowledge here...and next to the 100 Ton Cannon, I think this was the best. The slow-mo of the barrel rising, rising, being fought down, going side to side, and then the editorial...just excellent.
US Soldiers: we want the FN FAL
US Govt: we have FN FAL at home
FN FAL at home: [M14]
Would you remove that [M14] at the end? People are not dumb and probably get it without it. It also kinda ruins it.
Found the Karen. ^
Jason Townsend in 280 right
Lol
@Joe Blow but y tho
And so let forth his mighty battle cry "HOOWAAAAAAAAA"
2:57 to 3:01 NEEDS to be GIF'ed.
The mighty Stoner Style Gun-Fu warcry
well this comment got popular overnight
giphy.com/gifs/m14-forgotten-weapons-ian-mccollum-i3QVbX2bv9Nox0u0hv
I loved it, i made the barrels, the rifling. in 1963 at H&R in Worcester mass on Park Ave. Made $500 a week peace work 50 barrels a rack. 2 million barrels the first Gov. contract. Owned one in 1983. Used it for black bear hunting in Maine and NH... I had 2 friends that used it in Nam loved it once you learned to control it...
one of the nice things about select fire rifles is that they are SELECT fire, rather have it then not.
2:57 When your Sensei ask for full auto during your black belt exam.
This comment is underrated af
Mwaaaaa
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH
"Long Haired Hippie Type "
really cracked me up
The M14/M1A is very athletically pleasing. Quite a beautiful rifle.
The Army M14 E2 was equipped with a bipod and sling with front grip that the shooter could employ to hold the barrel from riding up. However, my experience firing the E2 told me that you could not hit the broad side of a barn when in full auto. Still I liked the M14. As a Marine friend who carried/chose an M14 in Vietnam told me, the barrel could be full of mud and would still fire.
Wow... didn’t know the m-14’s cyclic rate was so high.
yeah that sounds like what? 850? 900?
@@quentintin1 That's still pretty fucking brutal for a full power rifle. Maybe should have designed a slower action if they wanted full auto?
Rip Steakface I'm thinking if they could have slowed it down to maybe 500 - 550rpm it would have done better?
@@bdkj3e True, but a lower cycle rate would not hurt, and what about some buffer pads to help with recoil?
@@bdkj3e slower cyclic rate = bolt traveling at less velocity = less energy to transfer.
But that isn't ideal either.
I was trained on the M-14 and it was our weapon when I was stationed in South Korea in 1967-68. They took us to the range so we could sight in our individual weapons and afterwards, we had a ton of ammo left. The ones in charge said load up and fire at will. Of course, none were on full auto, so we loaded up and just pulled the trigger as fast as we could. Talk about a lot of fun. I fired 20 rounds and never noticed that much of a kick or loss of control. But I was 20 yrs old, what did I know then. It was just plain fun. Would love to get my hands on one now. Bet I could still take it apart and put it back together.
Any m14 is full auto as long as you have a toothpick
Yep. The armour didnt want to have to count the rounds that werent fired
Truth to tell, the auto recoil didn't look all that bad. Not good for precise target shooting at 300 yards, I suppose.
@@skullmighty372 🤔 elaborate
@@TexasToast712 you can use a toothpick to make any m14 full auto
2:59 Liu Kang approves.
It's interesting to see this. If you want to actually hit anything on full auto it needs to be no further away from you than the length of the gun itself.
Good story, but I wish you'd demonstrated with targets to show just HOW difficult it it to hold on target. I went to basic at Fort Polk in fall of '67, and was issued an M-14. Three weeks later they took them away from us and gave us M-16's, which I used in Vietnam. Enjoyed shooting them both.
I think I once heard it described as first shot in the chest, second in the head, everything after that is antiaircraft fire.
Or indirect fire light artillery.
What I heard is if your point of aim is his right boot, then first shot is in the thigh, second in the abdomen, third in the chest, forth in the left shoulder, and the rest, God only knows; perhaps if the VC had used helicopters (thank God they didn't), it might have been good for taking out a few of those as well ...
to quote my favorite recoil joke:
"poooint it at the floor, close your eyes, and think happy thoughts!"
2:59 leaving this here-for myself
Thank you for your service :D
@@TerribleTrioHerb are you kidding me? I came here to say exactly that... I'm so unoriginal...
@@murderc27 Well that makes me unoriginal too, now doesn't it? Or maybe we are both awesome, yeah. Let's go with that.
We had the M14 in Vietnam, I thought it was a great rifle. One of our guys had the selector for simi or full auto. One time he wanted to try to use full auto he could not control it and almost killed a bunch of us.
One thing I failed to mention here - was that when I was in the Marines - while I had not fired an M-14 on full auto myself - I served with people who had.
A lot of the guys I served with - were right back from Vietnam. I asked them, given what I had heard about the difficulty of controlling the weapon on full auto, how it was. They said that - it was a training issue. It took some extra training to be able to control the 14 on full auto - but that was it. A trained operator could use the weapon on full auto - and they did.
Here - the Marine Fire Teams still had a slot for the Automatic Rifleman. So - this guy would be trained on firing it on full auto - but - the other members of the fire team might not be and would typically use it on semi-auto.
Another issue with this weapons is the ammunition. 7.62 is a good bit bigger than 5.56 - which is why you have 20 round M-14 Magazines and 30 round 5.56 Magazines (though the ones we had for the M-16's were 20's). The thing here - is that ammunition can get heavy depending on how much you carry. For everyone to carry a lot of 7.62mm would mean there were other things - like Claymores - they might not be carrying. The 5.56 ammo is so light you can really carry a lot of it - and thus - you had a lot of ammo to expend.
The Marines at that time had what they called "A Mad Minute" (not at all what the British mean by that). Here - our training company in ITR had one platoon at time - fire two magazines of tracers on a night firing range. The purpose of this - the use of ALL tracers - was so we could SEE just how much fire power a platoon of Marines had. It was a lot.
Guys told me that the first thing they'd all do in a sudden fire fight - was lay down - lift their M-16's up over their heads and spray an entire magazine in the general direction of the enemy. With a whole platoon doing that - there was a tremendous volume of fire put out - and if anyone on the enemy side was exposed - they were very likely to get hit. This is of course - an M-16 tactic. A weapon with a real recoil - couldn't be used that way - but with almost no recoil the M-16's could.
That was the best thing about the M-16 - was that you could really pump out a lot of rounds with it. So - of course - the Army had the weapon modified to only do 3 round bursts .... They took the one thing the weapon was really good at - and fucked it up.
.
I carried one in Vietnam. 2 round groups were OK. Three were WORTHLESS.
At 25 meters you could shoot ballantine's with the M14 we did it in 1964.
I honour your service!
I found that if I had my 14 braced it did okay on full auto although it's wasting ammo.We always used the one shot one kill rule
Why was this replaced with the M16?
@@twistedyogert Because the recoil was uncontrollable in full auto.
3:10 - Ian shooting at some low-flying aircraft there.
The subtitles man. Whoever did them, thank you
The M14 was the standard issue rifle on US Navy ships in the early-mid ‘80s. I qualified marksman with it (outdoor range, gusty winds, yadda yadda-bottom line: I should have done better). Most of my ship’s M14s were semiautomatic only, but we did have a few capable of full auto. After a single session with one of those, I (gunnery officer) and my Chief Gunners Mate essentially locked them up with Do Not Issue tags.
2:58 full auto m14 brings out Gun Jesus's inner Bruce Lee.
Sean Dwyer Jesus is a gun
If you turn on CC, he literally quotes himself right after 😂
HUOO
@POOR PIRANO Bruce Lee style hu oo
subtitle: "(Racks the poor M-14)"
whoever wrote those subtitles, I salute you.
And the “Dang. Wow.” -Ian McCollum, 2018
Also, thanks for putting metric units in there, pal... I got tired of stopping the video and then calculating how much that is (from ft to m)
First weapon I fired on full auto. Short bursts in prone was my best option for not endangering aircraft and ducks.
When I was qualifying with the M-14 at the US Army rifle range as a Private E-1, the Range Seargent said: " Right Handers shoot and hold the M-14 this way ! Your right hand is your trigger finger ! Well I grew up with a weak right eyes from being born with "Strabismus" (a crossed eye) . Operated on at 5 yrs. old to correct the crossed eye. But still unable to focus the right eye. I grew up shooting BB guns, 22 rifles, 12 Gauge shotguns and more. I tried to explain to the Seargent that I fired with my left hand on the trigger and left eye doen the sights. He said " There is two ways of doing things, your way & my way (US ARmy way ). So shoot right handed. Well I could not hit the targets as they popped up. So he finally gave in and said "OK, do it your way " ! I fired expert and got my expert badge. He was not pleased but agreed that I was right ! I still shoot that way today and even got two deer with one shot by accident . A Doe was exactly behind a Buck (4pts. ). I could not see her. When I went to see what I had done, there were two deer. I have become known as "Two Deer " to my Native American friends !
That's very interesting. They have changed things up a bit since then. When I went through Basic (winter of 2012/2013) they did their best to explain the biomechanics of it all and that certain ways of shooting are better than others for most people, but ultimately that we should shoot however is most comfortable for each of us. Their recommendations for whether we shoot left handed or right handed was actually based on which eye was dominant, rather than which hand was dominant.
@@gareththompson2708 Although, the AR-Series of Rifles, are not Lefty Friendly... I hate getting hot shell casings in the face! I love the M-14! Way more stopping power, greater accuracy, and much more Lefty friendly! Side note, they always complain about the weight of the M-14, and the fact that you can carry more 5.56X45mm rounds than 7.62X51mm rounds. My argument has always been, I'm 6'3" and stocky, weight is not an issue for me... Also, I don't need to carry as many rounds, as I hit what I'm aiming at! I'm a Marksman, that still believes in the "One Shot, One Kill" philosophy... And, the M-14 would be my first choice to carry into battle!
I don't know what the problem is. It's the best all purpose rifle there is. In one burst you can go from engaging enemy infantry to enemy aircraft.
*full sarcasm mode engaged*
Who ever did the subtitles I can’t stop laughing.
HIYA
"Dang. Wow." - Ian McCollum, 2018
(Shoots a single round)
yeah
HERO WE GO (Ferocious battle cries)
Props to whoever captioned this, they were a hoot
I served in the U.S. Army Infantry 62-64. None of the M14' had selector switches for fully auto. Only full auto versions were M15. At that time M14 with bipods . I did have a selector on the M14 I used when in Headquarters. Never used it.
2:54-3:00 is now my phone notification lol
Hi there cousin.
*phone goes off in school*
yes and in public stations everyone will think of an terro attack
The Waaaa! is the best part
2:58 4:40
"Hwaaaahhhh!" - Gun Jesus, 2018
Few of the troops who trained with the M-14, willing gave them up, in Vietnam.
TRUE THAT!
Dad qualified on both the M14 and M15 (more or less the M14 trying to be the BAR) in the late 60s and this gels with his experience. He loved the rifle in semi auto, hated lugging it around, found it far more accurate at distance than the M16s his unit later switched to, etc. All that said, his attitude was it was pointless to switch the M14 into auto unless you were laying prone and shooting supported. The M15 had a bipod, the M14 did not. You almost needed one on both.
That's a sweet microphone, really captured how savage a full-power rifle sounds.
Fishfingers232 exactly. Doesnt work super duper great for speech, but awesome for gunshots
Looks sorta like a good old hunting rifle.
Shoots like an m-60.
That thing shoots like a SAW without a tripod from the hip
Even faster
Anti-gun people would be confused
Holy ____! An M60 would have to be more controllable than this, if for no other reason than it weighs twice as much.
@@spikespa5208 It is because it is heavier beyond the receiver, this better controlling muzzle rise. Same ammo though.
I really appreciate your videos. This one is by far the most entertaining to me.
I’m impressed with the amount of control he had.
I tried semi-auto rapid fire once.
The M14 was exc for crowd control…bayonet and butt stroke..
The M16 was lousy for bayonet work.
2:58 veit cong picking up a GIs rifle and using it (1966)(colorized)
Definitely!!! I thought of that before I saw this post, except I was kind'a thinking of Bruce Lee!!!
😂
Lol
Hahahahhahahahahhaha duuuudee
@@V-V1875-h that used to be my profile picture
2:58 the last sound you hear right before being gunned down...
...by a US marine who was actually aiming at your buddy who was 200 yards closer.
Trained with the M14 in bootcamp USMC. It's a fine rifle, but suited for open country like middle east because it can reach out further with better energy. Not very good in the jungle except the 7.62 didnt deflect off foliage like the 5.56 did. Wood stock was a problem tho. But then we had problems with the 16 when it first arrived due to incorrect ammo causing jams.
My Father carried one in Vietnam. He always told me these were ridiculous in full auto. That the only way to tame it is to have charging handle facing the ground because of the muzzle climb. I had a chance to shoot one and remembered what he told me. It is very controllable, but it has to be with the charging handle facing the ground and shoot from the hip. Basically, it is for suppressing fire.
plot twist: its not full auto he just has a really fast trigger finger
Plot twist: gun jesus is actually Jerry Miculek in disguise
There was an auto variant. I carried one. A bipod was available.
@@chadspawr3041 it's a joke bruh everyone knows the early M14s were all full auto
Scuffed controller be like
A Joe Biden finger. lol
I always wondered how it would do if you shot it hipfire, but that full-auto is closer to a panic button than a machine gun. "When ambushed, magdump in direction of enemy" or something like that.
It can be held at hip, left arm with hand reversed and stiffened held to some sort of control, but, I'm just not a fan.
The purpose was to use it like that and use an outdated post ww2 advance tactic... then America just into vietnam...
20 rouns of 7.62 hipfired full auto in close range should stop whatever is coming. But only if there isn't more on the way.
@@HappyBeezerStudios It'd probably make a decent "checkpoint gun," 5 or 10 rounds into an average car engine would cripple it easily, I'd think. But yeah, definitely not useful for much more when in full-auto.
I would argue that full auto on a combat rifle is a panic switch to begin with. Hell, there are guns that have triggers that the first take up is semi auto and the second stage to take up is full auto, so if you are calm and have a proper trigger pull, it is going to be semi auto, and if you are freaking the hell out and just jerk the hell out of the trigger, it becomes a brrrt.
I love the M-14. I was trained with them in Marine Boot Camp, ITR and had one after I got back from Vietnam. It is a joy to shoot, accurate and it only takes one to take out your target.
I've watched this video every few months to revisit Ian's Battle Cry, and it never disappoints.
I was in the last cycle to be trained on the M14. Once sighted to the rifleman it was extremely accurate. Automatic fire mode resulted in the rifle trying to climb up and to the right. Automatic fire in bursts was best from the prone position or with bipod.
Persons with a strong grip could control the rifle in automatic fire in bursts. Firing of a full magazine on automatic would generally result in rounds off target and target area.
The shooter could also use the sling to brace the rifle.
And yet, the purpose of automatic fire is most definitely *NOT to punch single holes in the target. It's to produce area fire, designed to keep the enemy suppressed.
It was normal for the bigger guys to be designated to use auto with the M-14, and they learned how to control their fire.
Yes, hand someone today an M-14, and they will have problems controlling it. That's why training is important, and videos like this are not really being truthful.
@@bigbill2444 And that's exactly why the doctrine changed and the SAW is going to get replaced by a reconfigured assault rifle - anyone can use it and you actually hit something, making even an experienced enemy keep his head down.
@@bigbill2444 I dont think this video is being misleading. It aims to answer whether or not this rifle was controllable in automatic fire and the answer is yes it's kinda difficult to handle. Those who think this video is being misleading are really only misleading themselves by defining "controllable" as "effective". They can be exclusive to each other.
@@unverifiedbiotic Sounds like you're referring to the Marines M27. Looks no different than a M16A2 or A4 especially from a distance. Marines wanted it in A-stan because the SAW gunner was the target when a patrol was ambushed. They wanted a long barreled full auto M16 to blend into the patrol. They also wanted a longer barrel to fight back at the common & frequent ambushes by the Muji at to 900m to 1000m. The Muji had a nice supply of Russian 7.62 and heavier MG's and endless supply of RPG's thanks to the Soviet Union and Pakistan. Most RPG's reach out to 900/1000 meters.
That's what my brother said - use the sling as a brace to make auto more accurate.
My neighbor is a Vietnam Vet, and he said his Gunny would say semi only on your M14 or else.
Typically there was one soldier per squad who used the M14 in full auto as a suppression/support role, and everyone else used semi auto.
@@brooksman10 not in Nam, was all FA..
@@brooksman10 That's how the Germans used the StG 44, it gave the MG teams more time to pack up or set up.
USN still has M14s(mostly for the line throwing kit, but also handy for shark watch).
I'm not sure if they even kept any of the selector switches they removed(high likelihood that they just got tossed overboard).
our range seargent was smart, he never showed us how to fire full auto. He was close to retirement and wanted to live to see it happen
Can't imagine the rear peep sight helps once it starts hoping around.
watching the slow - mo barrel flex. amazing.
WOAH....*look of shock*....Ok, so... I'm gonna say the rumors are true.
Classic.
Trenchgun97 lmao 😂
@SyrupCartel "more practice".....have you seen this channel before
My dad was a door gunner/crew chief on a Huey in Vietnam. He was assigned an M-14 when he got there, as the M-16 was not in widespread use at the time. As he told it, SOP for door gunners using the M-14 was to wrap the a seat belt strap around the barrel "to keep the third round out of the rotors." When they finally started getting the M-60, pilot anxiety levels dropped.
In Estonia we use it as a ceremonial rifle but also get to shoot it in the range once during our 11 month service. The joke among the instructors is that they don't know where the full-auto selector is.
I was at basic training in 1967 and qualified expert with the M14. It was a pleasure to shoot and very accurate.
Comparing it to a BAR is silly. Compare it to the Garand and it shines.
1:55 almost let the F bomb slip
Sounded more like "oof"
@@grilledcheesinator55 or ''uuh f...''
*OOOooF*
Or oooh fff
@@somebody4877 OOooFF! Ya damn hippy type!
2:51 My new favorite Ian quote, "Huuu, Have to psyche myself up for this, Here we go Huah! Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt, WHOOOOOHAAAA!!"
This part had me rolling!
The 1:57 "okay" gets me every time
Saw that barrel SMOKE!
This video makes me laugh every time. Absolutely love it. Keep doing great work.
1:42 : "I have it on full auto! Let's see how this goes..."
1:57 : "Okay, soo... I'm gonna say the rumors are true..."
Thumbs up. Love the vids!
2:58 Let me see your war face!
Michael MacGyver xx
Ian psyched up is a site to behold. I bet if he overdid it he'd shout "OORAHH!"
Who needs accuracy when the recoil will bounce your sights from enemy to enemy to enemy to gunship to boat to spy plane.
My shoulder hurts just watching that.
The recoil is not bad at all. It's a very soft shooting rifle. Muzzle rise however is a different story.
@SyrupCartel I dont get why people say 12 gauge shotguns get the rep of hurting shoulders. I've never had my shoulder hurt from a 12 gauge no matter what kind of shell
@@jeremiahfyan I've shot 3" shells in a 12 gauge single shot with an 18" barrel. It really was borderline abusive. The bit of extra mass afforded by a longer barrel, the extra barrel of a double, or the magazine and action of a repeater of some sort seem to help keep things much more comfortable for me.
I've shot service rifle matches & had to deal with female co workers thinking that it was funny to slug me where I'd had a steel buttplate bumping into my shoulder 200 times over the weekend.
The .280 died for this
And I'm glad. .280 would've been nothing but a less powerful 7.62mm, and might've resulted in an even less powerful version of 5.56mm being adopted for infantry rifles.
Totally worth it
and a enemy who is still fighting after being shot 5 times with the less powerful 556
I don't think I would've ever been an FAL guy if it was chambered in .280
@@TheAmericanCatholic Less energy doesn't equate to less lethality. .308 has a REALLY bad ice-picking problem; any decently made 5.56 (e.g. pretty much anything but m855) actually causes just as significant - if not better - wounding.
There is a LOT of barrel whip/flex at full auto that can be seen in the slow motion. DANG that barrel is flexin!
Qualified with the M14 in 1966 (Sharpshooter, would've been expert if I'd had glasses) but to this day my right cheekbone remembers that stock anytime I think of that M14 and yes, I too could still field strip, clean and reassemble one with my eyes closed in the dead of night....I think...good times