Sanderson 2012.11 - Fight Scenes & Romances
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- Опубліковано 29 кві 2016
- Brandon Sanderson’s 2012 Semester at BYU: Creative Writing, Lecture 11
This video is a mirror of the materials posted by user writeaboutdragons. I’ve linked together the parts of the lecture into a single video, and provided some notes with timestamps below. Enjoy!
*Notes*
0:12 / Misc questions
13:02 / Making stories meaningful
- Novel writing is a form of entertainment
- Some people build stories around a meaning (C.S. Lewis)
- - Some don’t (Tolkien)
- Avoid being preachy by not putting in straw men
22:12 / Fight scenes
- Show, don’t tell; important here
- Blow-by-blow narrative is not as fun as visual media
- - Many people skip fight scenes entirely
- Clarity is king: be concrete and reduce metaphorical language
- You want the character to feel the chaos of battle, you DON’T want the reader to feel chaos while they try to read the scene
32:08 / Things movie fight scenes can’t do
- Show thoughts and emotions
- - Use character thoughts as “shows”
- We can control pacing better than visual media
- Hit all senses
- Emphasize these things over blow-by-blow
38:59 / Larger narrative flow
- What is main purpose of a sequence?
- - Plan the tone of the fight sequence to achieve this purpose
- Advancing the plot is usually not enough; have the scene accomplish more than one thing
- You don’t want filler scenes; every scene should have something cool
50:14 / Realism in fights & romance
- You can take license, just decide what style you are going for
- Real fights, two on one, hero dies; injury, hero is out of action
- Most armies will break after 10% losses
- Real romance is a lot of work in a story
- - A lot of people looking for a romantic subplot aren’t looking for a strictly real-life romance
1:04:15 / Plotting romances
- Make them compliment one another; not just because they are the only male/female of age in the story
1:08:30 / Exercise of plotting a romance
- Relationship sub-arc should parallel the main arc, but can peak just before or just after
- Build 3 scenes things go right; build 3 scenes where it goes wrong; string these together as a try-fail cycle
Sanderson's take on romance: Takedown, headlock, ground and pound.
LMAO
As Pat Benatar said, "Love is a battlefield"
It IS said that love hurts
Now that is kinky
Nailed it.
Brandon: okay let's talk about romance
Also Brandon: *proceeds to explain how to beat the shit out of a guy*
Some people would argue they’re not mutually exclusive.
It's really rare to see someone who has had success and can explain what they did and how to observe others- it's rarer still to see someone with those attributes who can teach a good class- and this is a good class.
This is a very good series.
Agreed!
Oh my gosh, yes! Brandon Sanderson is so amazing as a writer when it comes to plot, worldbuilding and characterisation.
Too many talented and gifted fantasy writers unfortunately struggle with giving useful advice on writing fiction that's easy to understand. I'm just so glad and grateful that Brandon Sanderson can explain such writing tips in a way that's fun, useful and easy to understand.
I think what Brandon is actually proving is the problem with English degrees (in terms of producing popular authors) is that they're taught by English professors, who like Harrold Bloom, have an elitist attitude toward popular literature, and tend to over-specialize literary fiction. That's great if you want to be a writer in the 20th century before the 1960s. And you'll be very good at writing formal essays.
His commentary on politics in novels here is clever. Dostoevsky did a great job of fulfilling what Brandon Sanderson talks about here. Not only did Dostoevsky not straw-man the people he disagreed with, he made them intellectual giants to be truly difficult for the main character to overcome.
You make a really great point. It's really impressive how Dostoevsky made the characters he disagreed with intelligent , capable of love and complex, instead of making them all stupid and evil.
Good comment, what book?
@@alekvillarreal3470 The Brothers Karamazov
@@alekvillarreal3470’ I’ve only read Crime and Punishment so far, but he wrote the atheist main character really well. (Dostoevsky was a devout Eastern Orthodox Christian.) I’d guess that all of his post-Siberian exile novels have non-stupid ideological enemies. They’re all considered masterpieces.
So the first rule of fight scenes is you never talk about fight scenes.
Sanderson is the uber nerd every nerd should aspire to be.
Why did i imagine that in Mio's voice
I really appreciate that every example he uses involves Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Indiana Jones, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, or The Wheel of Time because, as a nerd, I'm familiar with these stories.
Nerd Emperor
Romance discussion starts at 50:20 for anyone looking for that part 😇
@Zachary Wood Thanks for letting us know!😊
@Fiona Kriner Thanks for mentioning when Brandon starts talking about how to write fight scenes!😊
51:09 "What can I say about romance?"
** What is love intensifies **
** Next in Queue: I wanna know what love is! **
Brandon: "Okay, let's talk about how to write romance. Step one is, if you wanna win a fight you pin a guy to the ground and punch him in the face over and over again."
Me: "I'll keep that in mind for my next date."
So I slept with the videos rolling.. I was watching Skallagrim, and I wake up watching this. I love it.
"Don't forget to be fun."
*Looks at DC*
And Marvel
I've never read any of Sanderson's work but watching these lectures has really made me want to.
Sanderson's books are amazing!! His books are very long, but worth it. He writes complex and likeable characters, detailed worldbuilding, and very entertaining plots.
@@thuytienlives8487 LOL
58:54 No one was winning. Both sides were losing. One just broke first
*DEEP*
here we see a rather demure yet saucy brandon sanderson
7:30 The thing about "entertainment" is that the kinds of stories that most of us are entertained by contain common threads of value that are important to humanity. We are entertained by the idea of the "hero" and the "villain", or progress towards goals, for instance. So if you pursue what is the most entertaining you will also find what is most valuable. The Human Condition is entertaining to people, so just make things that are captivating and entertaining and the rest will follow.
Exactly. I was struggled with writing for a long time because people always told me to think of a theme first or what I really want to say because it's basically the one that will guide the story. I found that method so unnatural because it felt more like writing an argumentative essay than a story. But as Sanderson said, we consume these things for entertainment. Themes will be found if the story is picked apart, but that doesn't always mean that the author had that in his mind in the process of writing. I'd like to have themes as consequence of my characters and their actions, not the other way around.
"What if that was one-sixth of your book" then it would be a Warhammer book. I wish there was a 'read in this order' list because I bought one and was so confused by all the jumping around to battles I had no context for.
I feel like the romance plot they're building at the end might have been the genesis of Carnival Row.
I am not a writer, but I do enjoy this kind of lectures.
it's an interesting format. The students lead a lot of the progression through the lesson plan, unless some was edited out. They seem to know the agenda and are in agreement with the lecture about it. I'd say it takes invested and respectful students.
22:10 is when fight scene and romance discussion starts
Thank you.
The pontificating in a fight scene is best done when the character's head is ringing from the blow and they are regaining consciousness from their new perch on the ground... which is its own urban fantasy trope.
Ha, i'd say the best time for pontification is when you get some distance from your opponents. Depending on how hard you got hit, you are either focused on getting your shit together or on how much you want to hit back, when you get your bell rung. :)
I love the part about the truth of battle.
it is so fascinating watching this after all the books he wrote. You can really see how he used the things he said for example the love triangle or the fight scenes in the way of kings at the end
These Sanderson videos are INVALUABLE!!! So happy to have found them
Love hearing nerds tell me how to fight in real life. Awesome.
this makes me feel old, but its very pleasant to hear so much typing every time people take notes.
I love how he just offers chairs. Professors in my side of the world just tell any latecomers/seat changers to fuck off or stay where they are.
Actually fight scenes can be great, if u can effectively show the strategies that characters use and add tension with critical dangerous situations.
Quick gritty/ realistic fight scene advice from a martial artist. If you want to do a two on one, first guy goes down within two hits cause second guy is coming at you. It's not hard to take someone down quick. A hard knock on the ground (Kick out the knee while slamming the shoulder) will get them out of the action for at least 10 seconds while they deal with the pain and do or don't get back on their feet. Most people don't know how to fall and will injure themselves on the way down. Hit their head, break their wrist etc.
Other things to give the disadvantaged party a more realistic fighting chance against two or more: Give them training or a weapon or armor or magic etc.
One of the students mentioned but most fights are over so fast. Picture going all out for even 30 seconds. You're winded. So most people are willing to suspend their disbelief in order to let a good fight sequence play out.
“Hey girl, wanna-“
*flying armbar*
Sanderson's classes are so informative, I think at this point I have watched most of these videos. :) On a side note regarding fighting two on one. In a sword/shield fight. A though on how to win. You would need to put one of your enemies in between the other essentially turning it into a one v one. This is not always possible due to the area in which you are fighting, but hypothetically speaking if you are in an open field, the single fighter would constantly move to keep the second fighter behind the other man. instead of letting them both attack at the same time, stay back, and rotate so that you only need to target one enemy. However, the single fighter does exhaust their energy a lot more quickly doing so. So they would need to try and end the fight with the closest enemy as quick as possible. This of course is if all warriors are evenly matched skill wise, and have the similar equipment.
Regarding Knight's Tale, totally agree! The blacksmith woman was far more interesting, cool, beautiful, and awesome than the "Noble Lady." The "Noble Lady" was a bit of a sadist and a nut. The blacksmith was truly amazing. She should have had a romance with someone and it should have had more focus than the knight's relationship with the lady.
a lot of people wanted that
that's an interesting depiction of romance if purposeful - the couple that you know should have happened not happening because the "troupe-y" couple succeeds. The reader knows it, the author knows it, but it happens anyway as if to say "look what culture has thought us to expect." That could happen in real life. We could choose partners or see couple that seem more "safe" or practical even though it might not be as fulfilling.
Anyhow, is it a good read?
46:22 As movies have taught us: A proper fight scene should always be set in a place with level of epicness equal to that of the fight itself. A fistfight against a random henchman can happen in normal alley, but the final showdown between the incarnations of good and evil must at least have several acres of space and 3-storey deep pitfalls surrounding the fighters. One of these elements can occasionally be compromised by having a raging storm, falling rocks, lava or Clint Eastwood involved. ;)
Dwayne The Rock Johnson shows up in 93% of my books for the big battle
Good job describing medieval warfare. There was a lot of holding off and procrastinating on charging people interspersed with quick brutal violence. I feel like it should have been mentioned that while multiple opponents can be a death sentence if equal skill and equipment it adds great tension if your character is not trying to kill 3 people but block their attacks and keep them from surrounding and butchering him long enough for a friend to come save the day. Its a great way to build character relations and add tension within the story and makes a brief blow by blow (interspersed with desperation) very interesting.
This video has so much great information on writing entertaining action and romance scenes! Thanks so much for uploading this, and for summarising Brandon Sanderson's most useful advice in this class. 😊
Most useful tips:
- Showing characters being relatable, and characters solving problems in clever or creative ways.
- Use active voice for writing fight scenes.
- Try not to use metaphors in fight scenes.
- Fight scenes shouldn't be too long - 60 pages for a fight scene is too long.
Brandon Sanderson's best quotes in this video: "We joke about women overthinking things. But men do too."
"Except for Knight's Tale - he totally should have ended up with the blacksmith." YES!! Thank you for saying this, Mr Sanderson!! 😊👍
Mr Sanderson and his class coming up with a romance story: "Two romance protagonists. He's a detective, she's a fairy urban planner. They met on Match.com."😂
When he holds both pens in his hands, sometimes it looks like he's knitting. Also, I want to see a movie based on the story they plotted out at the end; I would suggest Dwayne Johnson because he's got some experience with fairies. ;)
Called Bright with will smith just like hitch... it was probably the worst student though
it reminded me of the pixies in the fairly odd parents 😂
22:12 the actual lecture begins
6 yrs later, this video has been very helpful! thank you 🙂
The Iliad has the best fight scenes.
Thanks a ton for making this available! It was a great help. :)
Superb. The only dated information is the quoted med school cost. 😁
Brandon is a great teacher
Sanderson's a master with class.
“Boy what can I say about romance”
Brandon has finally run out of worrw
18:05: I completely agree. Just look at like 50-60% of antagonists in Creepypastas. How do you make the bad guy scary? Make him a petophile!
I see what you mean. That being said, writing about a villain who's a pedophile can actually be done realistically in fiction and non fiction.
25:10 The amount of indignation I felt at that for some reason. I don't even have that many fight scenes, but like any point of conflict they affect the characters and scathe them in different ways. For me anyway, how the fight happened often ends up being important later.
i feel like his white board pen game is the best it's ever been in any of these lecture vids, past or present.
the asmr aesthetics are INCREDIBLE
27:40 “oh hey mark”. Just like the room
I needed this video. Thanks.
I'm so glad that you did this. I'm writing a book, and really needed to learn how to do a fight scene. Thank you for this!
Hello Future Me also does a great explainer on fight scenes!
I don't know what he retconned that with, but if you know the locations of stable wormholes or have a warp drive that folds space or compresses the space in front of the ship, you can do the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs.
This class seems like a lot of fun.
I think Mr Sanderson overestimates the impact of wounds. Adrenaline is a hell of a thing, and there are real cases of people getting shot a dozen times and still being in fighting condition. Even as the exception, generally in science fiction and fantasy we are writing stories about exceptional people.
Jim Schuler it also matters where the wound is, because if you get shot in the arm you will be a lot more OK than if you are shot in the chest.
I respectfully disagree with the "kids don't profess true love" comment. Certain kids are in love with love, and those kids definitely profess feelings of "true love" for one another.
Agreed. Also, we don't fully know how adolescents were towards each other back in Shakespeare's day. When the quality and span of life is on average much lower, you grow up fast.
Today we live longer and better but manchildren exist, who may never know love, and teens with terminal illnesses exist in manageable enough conditions for love to occur. Experience is more of a factor than age.
These videos are all great.
'How to get an editor to read the first page of your book: Buy them an iPad"
I'm sure this is true, but wow is that sad
I see outsourcing his wardrobe decisions was the right choice.
Tolkien didn't like allegory and symbolism that pointed to things outside of the text, the philosophy of the well-wrought urn. And you can still find it, even though he didn't intend for it to be there.
1:15:00 regarding the guy saying Denna from The Name of the Wind being capricious - umm. She's only sixteen. And Kvothe was sending equally mixed messages about being romantically interested in Denna too.
I love Kvothe and Denna, and people need to cut them slack for not handling romance well. They're only sixteen years old.
I think they both read way, way older and more world-weary than the stated ages, and it's easy to forget how young they are supposed to be, especially when they both so often are pulling off shenanigans that feel like they are more appropriate to people in their 20's.
I keep on thinking the thumbtack on the back of the wall is something on my computer screen🤣
I love these, but I think that Sanderson grossly underestimates human willpower when it comes to taking wounds. It is possible to walk or run with a wounded foot, or punch or grip a sword/gun with a wounded hand. it is, at least for a little while. What matters is how deep and severe that the wound is, how well they're trained, and how many years of experience they have. That's not to say that humans are invisible, but they are much stronger than what he's trying to say, some of them anyways, (obviously not all of them).
I agree. There are people who will fall with a slap and others who will carry on with a broken arm. Some are survivors, others not so much.
I am not a trained runner, but the few times I got my leg or foot injured, it didn't stop me from running. Once, i skinned my knee bloody by tripping over a root on the way to a job interview I was already late for, i continued running and did the written test with bloody knee and bloody and hand all.
Twice, I tore clean through a tendon in my foot, missing the second to last step on a flight of stairs I ran down to catch the subway. Continued running and managed to get the sub, just pushed through the pain.
@@Dragons_Novel There's many different ways of being a survivor, and being physically weak or physically disabled doesn't prevent a person from being brave and emotionally strong (which is another form of survival).
Just gotta clarify the point about olympic fencing -- it depends on the weapon. Only is saber is it over in one second with whoever goes first. Epee can take much longer.
25:30 - Geez; if you skip the fight scenes, why are you reading that genre at all?
12:50 - and today, narrative designers are common-place in the games industry
14:30 - That's awesome, man. I hope the students are listening. "People are picking up your book to be entertained." Really kind of takes that whole dream of writing to change the world and sort of turns it on its head, doesn't it? But he's right - people don't go out to the bookstore (most of the time) to find something to change their lives. They just want a few hours of fun. If you can change their lives along side that, more power to you, and try to remember the little people when you're rich someday. But if you don't entertain, you won't be read, and if you're not read you won't change anyone's life. And you won't be rich. :-)
It's kind of funny because I've always been thinking I want to write simply for the sake of entertaining, but every professional writer I've met have been like, "You need to have a purpose with your writing. There must be a deeper meaning. You need to say something important about the human condition. Etc."
I get where they're coming from, but I just want to write a good story, like the ones I enjoy.
It's good to be reminded that fiction really is entertainment first.
@@writerducky2589 Yes - right there with you, man. Not that I've ever written anything, but I've thought about it, and got a couple of comments in college from English profs that said I showed promise. But... busy life and raising kids and so on has intervened. Maybe someday. Anyway, I'm in total agreement. There's a book series that I just thoroughly love, commonly referred to as "The Dresden Files." Urban fantasy. Nothing deep or profound about it - just the most entertaining stuff I've ever read, hands down. I'd give quite a lot to be able to do that.
note to self: 1:01:50
The funny thing about A Knight's Tale is that Heath Ledger's character Ulrich von Liechtenstein is connected somewhat to a real person of the same name. According to his own autobiography which is very questionably historical, the real Ulrich von Liechtenstein was also an idiot who did really stupid and dangerous things for the various noble woman he loved, one of whom was a deeply unpleasant woman and amongst other things, directed him to throw a tournament for her. (In the, intentionally lose sense of throw, not hold a tournament). They toned that down in the movie, the noble woman Heath Ledger's chasing is down right charming by comparison, even though the black smith is patently superior. So. Crap writing, or truth in fiction? You decide.
Have something interesting and different happen in every scene if you can
I struggle to convey how to express fight speed and certain blows.
Fight scenes and romance portion of the video starts at like 22 mins in
The parsec was referred to as a unit of time, not speed.
What an intelligent beautiful human
Spoiler for Words of Radiance
1:02:24 makes me hope for Kaladin and Shallan. Maybe it still can happen, you guys! :)
Actually their romance has been heavily foreshadowed in that book. Kaladin is head over heels crazy for her, but he is the kind of guy to give up on something before trying... and Shallan kinda likes him, while her relationship with Adolin might not be going very well... I cant wait to read Oathbringer.
@Vancha March Vivenna and Kaladin. Calling it now.
They should have made the twelve parsecs thing just have been short hand for twelve parsecs in some standard u it of time. Like, it wouldn’t horrible to say the speed limit is 60 mile instead of 60 miles per hour, because the “per hour” is fairly assumed. So the retcon could have just been adding the extra phrasing as a clarification; 12 parsecs per interstellar minute” or whatever
OMG, I want to take this class!
We all want to lol
Brandon teaching us self defense tips :) :) :)
im 17 min in and he hasn't talked about fight scenes or romance yet lol
How would you go about a big battle, rather than a small fight scene?
Check out the first chapter of Way of Kings. His approach is to keep tight on the viewpoint character, and only occasionally call attention to what’s going on elsewhere, to keep the scale.
Here's historical sword & buckler fighting video between two masters: ua-cam.com/video/mhiFCYwSG40/v-deo.html
Someone let me know when “The Fairy Godfather” has been written.
I want to everything he said not to do but good.
Why is everything in Italics on this page? Am I high? Well, I am, but is everything really italicized or am I just seeing things or maybe it's something to do with my browser? Oh Question! Is it still 'Urban Fantasy' if my high fantasy planet is pretty much just a huge metropolis, or does urban imply real Earth cities?
1:07:40
I wish he wrote blow by blow is blow.
I want to read that fairy story
17:38 ducking on terry goodkind i see
I learned that romance is as realistic as fights and battles in fiction... So sad 🤭
16:00
I don’t skip fight scenes as a reader but I do skip sex scenes
Epic games
His "1 on 1 sword and shield fight" is not very accurate tbh, I get what he's saying (or trying to) but he makes it out like armor and shields were so great that soldiers wouldn't need to train and would just hope to accidentally kill the opponent
The romantic comedy idea sounds like an episode, or arc, from "Lost Girl."
ua-cam.com/video/W057R9MNRw4/v-deo.html
Regarding the Romeo and Juliet example, is he trying to suggest that it's impossible for two people to truly fal lin love as teenagers and remain together? You can correct me if I'm wrong, but if he is I'd say that, like all things in life, there are exceptions to this. I mean, we always hear stories, specifically from people who grew up in the early 20th century, (1900's), where two people meet when they're really young, (often times in their early to mid 20's, but yes, sometimes when they're teenagers), fall in love, and they grow old together. Why does this happen? Does anybody know?
Added to that, people nowadays lack a sense of commitment and responsibility. People tend to just give up and throw the towel when things get hard or boring, while in the past, people owned their decision and made things work through all hardships. Also, people used to have basic respect for each other, even when they disagreed with each other. And lastly, people back then didn't have an over-inflated sense of entitlement, like they have now.
@Blacktimus Prime Christian values were mainly embraced in Christian countries back then, but not in non Christian countries.
I hope you're not trying to say that Christianity is superior to other religions, because it isn't. It has good and bad things about it, like every other religion.
Back then many people couldn't read or write, so we're just hearing from rich educated people who had successful marriages in history.
Ostracising people for holding Christian values is actually horrifying, and there's nothing wrong with being secular and not believing in God.
It is wonderful that we have more human rights now compared to hundreds of years ago.
The fact that people wait until they're in their twenties or older to get married is a good thing. It ensures more people get married once they're mature and ready to be good parents.
And underage teenagers shouldn't get married regardless of how mature they seem. Their brains and reasoning aren't fully developed.
@@StarlasAiko Leaving a marriage filled with physical, emotional or sexual abuse isn't a lack of commitment or responsibility.
People shouldn't be forced to stay in abusive marriages. Leaving abusive spouses isn't showing over inflated entitlement. Leaving abusive spouses is good common sense.
ThuyTien Lives I am not talking about abusive relationships, I am talking about relationships failing and marriages being divorced over banal and petty disagreements.
It is rare and to be treasured. Like the two swans swimming on a lake . . .
Wait, what happened to love scenes.... Does he think head holds are romantic? Great writer, great teacher.... I'm glad he's not my lover
"That's like saying 'I managed to run a marathon in 13 miles!"
Me, who ran a half marathon of 13.1: **triggered**
To can't believe how much I get out of watching all the different versions of these lectures online! Seems like every year they talk about new topics and examples while also reinforcing my knowledge of the basics each year has in common.
I love how Sanderson writes fights scenes, he's excellent at this... but romances...? my god, they all s u c k. Especially the love triangle in the Stormlight Archive. So annoying. It's the one thing he's not master at IMO.
could you recommend an alternative?
04:20 Did he just say a parsec is a unit of speed? ....... lol
I went on a doctor trip with my father, one other person brought a child who invited me to share a Fanta one night. It happens.
Sandersaurus
Lesson learned: Brandon knows nothing about writing romance.
that's why i read the last page too XD