I work in steel and twice last year we had to shut down the plant because the cost rose to $7500 /MWh for a plant that uses 32MW 24/7 when the normal cost currently is about $400/MW/h. For that 1 hr of operation for normal to high cost which is normally $12,800 to $240,000 this is what kills industry in 1 hr at that cost is nearly 1 days operation at 18.75 hrs of operation. and that $7500/MWh the business is not viable to operate. The business is lucky that it produces onsite at least 60MW that does not include the 32MW mentioned the site uses about 90 to 100MW /hr for its operation when in full production. This is what kills manufacturing, 5% of GDP is this and it is getting smaller eventually we will not make anything and we will all be poorer for it.
Call Sky News Australia..... PETA credlin.. Andrew Bolt...... Paul Murray.....they will take this issue with you. We all know Bowen is a liar incompetent and pathetic 🇦🇺👗
China as a world guide is not a world leader. China has had a health explosion and the adult population has lived successfully into much later life. Genetics is now the wall the adult population is hitting and aged is weakening the workforce. And workers are leaving the workforce. On the farm food was cheap and the family large. In the city factory's and apartments with mortgages and limited size the family was small and less than 1 child per woman, working women. The massive famine that killed 50million Yang, Xinhua News Agency senior journalist and author of Tombstone: The Great Chinese Famine, 1958-1962, concluded there were 36 million deaths due to starvation, while another 40 million others failed to be born, so that "China's total population loss during the Great Famine then comes to 76 million." Geopolitics is a method of studying foreign policy to understand, explain, and predict international political behavior through geographical variables. China has no replacement work force. China population is a false measure of a huge number of old people unstable population. China is a miscalculation. In 20years I will not be here and China will not be here. Russia has a crashing population and Europe has a crashing population. France's population looks stable. USA and Canada and Mexico looks stable. Australia and New Zealand looks stable. Australia will be in political stable sunshine latitudes. Sahara desert latitudes but without the dictatorships and wars. 10million have died in Africa. Nobody should quote China as guidance for the future. 2/3rds of their housing stock is empty..
Access to cheap energy is the foundation of any functional ecconomy. That is why America and China prioritise cheap energy. Without cheap energy you can do anything that those who do have cheap energy. We have enough gas and nuclear resources to have unlimited cheap energy independently of the world market, just like America. If our politicians managed the gas resources like Oman does we could have the best country on earth to live in. No ecconomy in history has survived high energy costs.
if only the conservatives didn't sell off all our state assets and resources to corporations for f'k all nothing huh? Amazing living in such a resource rich country and have little to show for it, probably some of the highest costs in the world.
We cannot compete with cheap labour but we could compete with cheap energy. We have lots of it all, coal, gas and uranium. We just need government to stop playing politics and do what is best for our country.
Excellent discussion with Aidan and really appreciated his detailed expose of the energy landscape in Australia. Well done John for engaging with such an experienced, knowledgeable and articulate guest 👍 Should be compulsory viewing for all govt. decision makers.
The problem with this discussion is that it is simply 2 people agreeing with each other in front of an audience who want to hear what they want to hear, *but they are right about a few things.* I am an engineer and there is some very valid points in this like the fact that electric trucks have failed and there is no electric alternative to diesel tractors. The other industry that wont be changing at all is the metallurgical coal for making steel. They are also right that the integrated plan will NOT WORK, but the real reason why is something these 2 clowns don't talk about. But on so many other points they are either WRONG or they are just leaving out facts they should be telling everyone. One major thing they do not tell you is that the nuclear option will cost EVERY HOUSEHOLD in Australia at least $25,000 in high energy bills while it gets built. It will simply take at least 25 years to build out what's proposed and that will mean your power bills will stay the same for the next 25 years costing you at least $1000 each year. The real cause why our energy bills are so high is because we haven't built nay major power stations in 25 years. the last reasonably large (but still under 1,000MW) power stations were Millmerran and Kogan Creek in Queensland. The 3 biggest power stations in Australia at Eraring & Bayswater in NSW and Loy Yang in Victoria were all built in the 1980s. Meanwhile the population went from 15 million in the 80s to 20 million in the early 2000s and its now 27 million. WE SIMPLY HAVE NOT BUILT ENOUGH POWER STATIONS. The real problem with the Integrated plan is that our renewables HAVE NOT BEEN PLANNED. Its all be dictated by the foreign companies building it. Its NOT been well planned and that's why its a mess. As for coal to be used for power is a dead industry and they all know it. Even the Chinese have stopped building coal. They're building nuclear and renewables side by side. In fact the Chinese have installed more renewables in recent years than the rest of the world combined. In some of their provinces 80% of homes now have roof top solar.
AI requires at least 10x anything else out there. If Australia wants any chance of future-proofing our economy, we need nuclear. There’s no way around it, and I’m HERE FOR IT! Bring it on!!!
@@questioneverythingalways820 dude, what? You know the Labor Minister for Cybersecurity drives a Chinese EV? What does nuclear power have to do with that? I assume you mean Silicone Valley companies?
There was a time that I remember that people just plugged in and did not worry. Cheap energy created in the 60's by a society wanting to build a better future has has been lost to ideologues that hate people and truth.
This gentleman is brilliant. He has a complete grasp of the whole complex mess that is our energy system. He is brave, bold, articulate and clever. John, thank you!
If you look at China they are building new coal power stations, renewables and nuclear all at once. They are implementing renewables and running coal until the nuclear options take over. They are doubling down on their manufacturing, AI and infrastrcture global control strategy. We must do the same before our economy is further hollowed out. Globally Iron ore supply will increase dramatically for China in the next couple of years. Coal usage will dissapear too. China is the greatest supplier and processor of rare earth minerals. Australia's is sleepwalking and immersed in simple minded political narratives. It doesn't understand that the world has already changed.
China as a world guide is not a world leader. China has had a health explosion and the adult population has lived successfully into much later life. Genetics is now the wall the adult population is hitting and aged is weakening the workforce. And workers are leaving the workforce. On the farm food was cheap and the family large. In the city factory's and apartments with mortgages and limited size the family was small and less than 1 child per woman, working women. The massive famine that killed 50million Yang, Xinhua News Agency senior journalist and author of Tombstone: The Great Chinese Famine, 1958-1962, concluded there were 36 million deaths due to starvation, while another 40 million others failed to be born, so that "China's total population loss during the Great Famine then comes to 76 million." Geopolitics is a method of studying foreign policy to understand, explain, and predict international political behavior through geographical variables. China has no replacement work force. China population is a false measure of a huge number of old people unstable population. China is a miscalculation. In 20years I will not be here and China will not be here. Russia has a crashing population and Europe has a crashing population. France's population looks stable. USA and Canada and Mexico looks stable. Australia and New Zealand looks stable. Australia will be in political stable sunshine latitudes. Sahara desert latitudes but without the dictatorships and wars. 10million have died in Africa. Nobody should quote China as guidance for the future. 2/3rds of their housing stock is empty.
Actually they have stopped build NEW COAL and started tearing down older coal. They are building nuclear at a impressive rate and in fact right now they are arguably the worlds experts in building nuclear just because of how many they have built. What you and others ignore is that the Chinese have also installed more solar and wind in recent years than the rest of the world combined. In some provinces 80% of homes have rooftop solar.
We export coal to china and India so they can have cheap power! Unfortunately we must keep using it until we have something reliably better! Nuclear If you think renewables are the way then first watch this clip. ua-cam.com/video/KmxOWqMsDxM/v-deo.html
@ianbutler6583 If CO2 emissions climate destabilisation is the reason to go to clean electricity then the most expensive energy, GRID ELECTRICITY, is just stupidly impossible. Including nuclear grid electricity. 10 times more electricity to replace fossil fuels. And the GRID transmission is 10 times more expensive than the electricity generation plants. Rooftop PV with BEV massive batteries, free massive storage on wheels 23hrs daily and all night long is the only way. The only economical way. No grid costs. No new grid capacity construction. Existing national grid is too valuable to waste and too expensive to expand. Existing national grid must be protected. Existing national grid cashflow must be protected. Over build rooftop PV and BEVs battery storage can feed-in electricity in the millions and millions, 20million, 247. Heavy industrial electricity customers moving away from fossil fuels to clean electricity need more grid electricity. Today's emergency is failing unmaintained and unupgraded generation plant and unmaintained grid transmission. Wind and solar farms and rooftop PV and a million new BEV each year is the cheapest way to low CO2 emissions. No farm lands and no bushland will make the entire country cry. Climate destabilisation and bushfires and decade-long droughts and desertification is just another Sahara Desert.
I would go so far as to say its all about global control and not about global warming. Historically people become more prosperous. 1000 years ago sheep grazed in Greenland. We are not that warm now. Then came the little ice age and you could walk across the Thames. We are getting a bit warmer again. Which is perfectly normal. We are somewhere between 1000 AD and 1700 AD. All periods we've managed previously, many, many times. As i see it the climate cult is about global control, and the impoverishment of we, the people of Australia, and the west in general.
Australian energy policy is self deletion. Worse still it makes our future major adversary more prosperous all the while while we export CO2 energy with low or no royalties all tax free of course 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
If only this were required viewing in our boardrooms, parliament and schools. The haters may hate but they won't be able to point to a single line in here as false. Great presentation as usual.
@@tonywilson4713Who supposedly 'exposed' him, and what did they expose? If you are referring to CO2, it has not been proven definitely by anyone at any time that this is responsible for changes in climate or weather for that matter. CO2 has been far higher in earths history, even during ice ages. CO2 is simply being used as a marketing tool to sell renewables infrastructure. Al Gore was the first one to market it in a big way.
Aiden is GOAT of explaining how bad the Labor party's enbergy policy actually is. The LNP should bring him on with Ted, to tell the Australian people there is a better plan.
Oh boy, next you're gonna tell us they are good economic managers... The Liberals along with the Nationals have been in government for far longer than Labor have so the blame for poor energy policy should be put on the Liberals not Labor! Labor will get rid of net zero soon same as the rest of the world.
@peterking8564 that's a false ideology peddled by Bowen and similar ideologues. Harnessing intermittent energy sources, and using them in a stable power system, is not free but rather, extremely costly because of infrastructure and stabilisation processes plus parallel systems to ensure base load power is available when the inevitable happens.@@peterking8564
@stevec9972 yep i see solarr wind batteries at places like remote communities, stations if not allready, remote towns or even medium towns. Somewhere you dont have industry , manufacturing, high useage items. Just normal household with a few shops, refrigeratoration etc. For cities, urban industrial base load from either 3 is the qay ro go i reckon
Exactly everything you have talked about, we in America have gone through for the last 4 yrs under the Biden Admin. Hopefully common sense will be returned under the new Trump era. If Trump had not run in 2016 we would have been in the same place as Germany. Trump's first term interrupted their "Green Plan".
Do you think replacing wind turbines solar panels and batteries every 20 years is free? Let alone the cost of building them in the first place .Sure exposes the mindset of some .
Bowen knows voters have increasingly shorter attention spans and few will watch this 79 minute presentation. Voters are more prone to accepting a simple lie than a complex truth. This message needs to be dumbed down.
To put things in perspective about how little Australia matters in the big scheme: Facebook is building a new data centre in Louisiana that will consume more electricity than all of South Australia and it will be powered by a dedicated gas turbine power plant.
No one has any idea how inefficient solar is I install it for a living. It’s ok for a back up or a warehouses that are using the power during the day but other that it’s useless or spend 20 grand on batteries which is pointless cause all your doing is just pay 10 years worth of bills up front then you’ll have to replace anyway once there charge cycles runs out.
John the sooner we can get an energy provider to start adding or rebuilding their power plant (coal/gas) they will hold the keys to the nation- whoever has a fully working power station in ten years time will be able to demand anything from the Gov and or states just to keep the power on
32:36 it’s not just about the powerlines. There are entire cascading systems that MUST be added to nodes across the entire network. Bankrupts us many times over and won’t even function.
WHAT THEY DON"T SAY ABOUT KEPCO the South Korean company that makes the APR 14000 nuclear reactors. 1) Kepco were caught falsifying records, test reports and other paperwork by the South Korean Government. So forget it as a "Reliable Supplier" 2) The reactors built in the Middle East took a similar time (8-9 years) as the American designed AP1000s took in China and if you look at actual construction time (without the standdowns) it was also similar to what it took at Vogtle in Georgia. I am in favor of nuclear power being PAR of Australia's future BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT and for the RIGHT REASONS.
Thanks. Interesting discussion and some good points. While I accept the principle of the importance of low energy prices to a healthy economy, Australian manufacturing, like other similar sized western economies, declined decades ago for a number of reasons. Many industries disappeared during a period of cheap government subsidised energy. Government inaction and inability to secure domestic supply and price guarantees for Australian gas has been a major factor implicated in non-viability and closure for several large industries in recent years. In regard to your question regarding why Aussies might think we can do what other countries cannot? I suggest one reason might be that many hundreds of thousands, including many in rural areas as you well know John; have reduced their electricity bill to zero using relatively inexpensive available technology. Those able to afford and operate an EV may have even saved significantly on their transport energy use and those few who are experiencing the freedom and independence of connection to a microgrid network have seen what is possible. This fact is a major hurdle the nuclear energy industry is now having to overcome if it wants to change the hearts and minds of the public. One issue rarely mentioned by nuclear proponents is the lack of flexibility with current nuclear power gen technology. If it enters the mix in a large scale it will negate (maybe even isolate and disconnect) those using renewables, so it will be seen as a threat, just as coal fired gen is currently.
Also if you listen to respected scientists like Drs Koonin, Lindzen, Moore (and many others) who show that there is not scientific consensus on the effect that humans have on the climate. In particular Koonin’s book “Unsettled” bases his claims directly from the IPCC data, gold standard for climate change science. So we are putting ourselves through all this economic pain with limited understanding of the actual outcomes .
John, could you please have a discussion on the projected total system cost of the 2 options discussed here: 82% renewables or a balanced mix of coal/nuclear/gas/renewables. We hear a lot of the costs of nuclear but not a lot of detail on the full system cost of the Gov's Renewable plan.
This asking industry to turn off to save power is already happening in your oft forgotten cousins down here in New Zealand.... We haven't built a power station of significant size in NZ in about 40 years so yeah, great times....
It is already happening in Australia too, a iron smelter business in Melbourne IIRC, runs production based on the wholesale spot price of electricity and shuts down if it raises to a certain price.
The massive service chargers for the transformers, inverters, synchronous condensers, rectifiers, batteries and transmissions lines needed to try and couple vast arrays of solar panels and wind turbines into the grid, means that energy from renewables can never be cheap let alone reliable.
We have put forward countless submissions as to why wind, solar and backup batteries are not a good idea. We icludes verifiable facts and references. The IPC ignore all information put forward. They insist that they look at every project on its own merit yet fail to acknowledge that the serious issues around this infrastructure is common to the renewables industry as a whole. We have been presenting detailed information for more than five years now and they know that if they took up any one of the major issues for a single project, it would apply to all subsequent projects. They haven't even been able to refute our evidence and in order to dismiss our submissions they have labelled us sceptics.
One thing not mentioned is that cheap PV solar and batteries only come from China. To be fare, the cost and schedule of nuclear should have been based on Chinese reactors.
Don't worry the Chinese are currently building another, half a dozen or so, coal powered plants, because their other 1100 coal power plants cannot keep up the demand from the factories that are making windmills and solar panels for the countries that want to go green, it's a sweet deal.
@@SaintKimbo The Chinese have 58 operational reactors, 29 under construction, 36 planned and 158 proposed. They cost about $3 billion per GW reactor and take about 6 years to build. If Australia is willing to use PV solar and batteries from China, then maybe they should consider letting China build their nuclear reactors.
The nuclear option should be referred to as the nuclear necessity, complex systems to replace baseload generation can only be considered less reliable due to the complexity. You only need half a brain to understand that importing manufacturing from another country's coal based production does not get this country to net zero carbon, unless you conveniently ignore the carbon cost of the imported products. If we were to account for the carbon cost of all our imports, we'd likely find that our county's carbon emissions are through the roof, with zero chance of ever getting to "net zero" ever. Virtue signalling for the braindead has a high price for everyone including the pragmatic amongst us that see's planting a tree to offset your personal carbon footprint a pathetic way to maintain a high carbon lifestyle, particularly those who bray loud and hard that we all need to reduce our carbon footprint whilst jetsetting their way around the globe often accumulating 10X the carbon use of ordinary people. But they did plant a tree, which probably died due to not being properly located, to valiantly claim they don't use any carbon at all.
Energy could cost a typical household only $1 per year if the science of the nuclear thorium is implemented. Netherland based company is just doing this now. Why can’t we?
Roughly 35% of emissions come from electricity production. Road transport is another 35% nuclear can be used therefore to convert 70% of energy usage to electricity. Given that we can expect some pretty good batteries in the next 5 to 10 years. That only leaves 70% about 5% is calcination of concrete which can be converted to using hydrogen obtained from the electricity. Maybe two or 3% is iron or smelting which can also be converted to use of hydrogen to make ammonia only requires hydrogen nitrogen again. Electricity can make hydrogen very efficiently so long as it’s cheap electricity so 75% can be converted over to say nuclear electricity or if you want to live in a bit of a fantasy wind power or solar. So we probably still need some diesel for tillage that even then hybrid hydrogen and diesel tractors can be built in storage of hydrogen is pretty good and safe at the moment.
I used to have a fascination with environmental energy sources (I hate using the word "renewables") as a kid but eventually learned that they're very unreliable, weak and expensive. So that made me lose interest. If that makes sense to a 10 year old kid, why on God's green earth are solar and wind treated as the golden child of our energy future?
The problem with this discussion is that it is simply 2 people agreeing with each other in front of an audience who want to hear what they want to hear, *but they are right about a few things.* I am an engineer and there is some very valid points in this like the fact that electric trucks have failed and there is no electric alternative to diesel tractors. The other industry that wont be changing at all is the metallurgical coal for making steel. They are also right that the integrated plan will NOT WORK, but the real reason why is something these 2 clowns don't talk about. But on so many other points they are either WRONG or they are just leaving out facts they should be telling everyone. One major thing they do not tell you is that the nuclear option will cost EVERY HOUSEHOLD in Australia at least $25,000 in high energy bills while it gets built. It will simply take at least 25 years to build out what's proposed and that will mean your power bills will stay the same for the next 25 years costing you at least $1000 each year. The real cause why our energy bills are so high is because we haven't built nay major power stations in 25 years. the last reasonably large (but still under 1,000MW) power stations were Millmerran and Kogan Creek in Queensland. The 3 biggest power stations in Australia at Eraring & Bayswater in NSW and Loy Yang in Victoria were all built in the 1980s. Meanwhile the population went from 15 million in the 80s to 20 million in the early 2000s and its now 27 million. WE SIMPLY HAVE NOT BUILT ENOUGH POWER STATIONS. The real problem with the Integrated plan is that our renewables HAVE NOT BEEN PLANNED. Its all be dictated by the foreign companies building it. Its NOT been well planned and that's why its a mess. As for coal to be used for power is a dead industry and they all know it. Even the Chinese have stopped building coal. They're building nuclear and renewables side by side. In fact the Chinese have installed more renewables in recent years than the rest of the world combined. In some of their provinces 80% of homes now have roof top solar.
You don't know what you are talking about. Nuclear doesn't take 25 years to build. In fact, China's building nuclear in 3-5 years per plant. Companies like Terrapower have blueprints and designs for essentially building nuclear power plants from a moving production line. Meaning nuclear plants are identical, every component is identical and interchangeable. Similar to how they make cars - brings cost and time down. So frankly, you have no f***ing idea.
China has not stopped building coal plants. Yes they are building a lot of renewables but their emissions are heading up at a great rate of knots. RE has already delivered those $1000 power increases and it will only get worse as we build more.
Australia emits 440 mill tonnes of co2. 1 mature tree absorbs 12kgs of co2. There are 24 billion trees in Australia. So Australia emits 440 million tonnes and absorbs 504 million tonnes ! Is that "science" or basic primary school maths ? That does not include grasses, mangroves and coral reefs ! Google it yourself
@ianbutler6583 I tried counting them all but decided to Google it instead. My point is this is never talked about by all the net zero people ? If they can talk and measure all the co2 emissions then why not absorption, that's how they work out carbon credits / tax.
How about we carry on with cheap and reliable coal and look into carbon capture technology, and we will promise to start shutting down our 6 or so when China starts closing down their more than 1100 coal plants, and India starts shutting down it's nearly 300 coal plants?
@@rustyfeatherstone93 Doesn't it occur to you that if renewables are so cheap, that private investment would be falling over themselves to build a renewables? If you offered McDonalds a way to supply them their burger buns at, say 80% less than they are paying now, which would allow them to reduce the price of their burgers and still make a healthy profit, they would rush at that opportunity. This is similar what renewables offer to the power industry, way cheaper source cost, yet there's no rush for that opportunity, the Government has to offer substantial financial benefits and subsidies, but they still are way behind on their targets. Actions speak louder than words, don't they?
@ private investment is literally falling over themselves to build renewables mate. I’m a solar farm developer. Trust me there is no shortage of money. You watch the amount of batteries, solar farms and wind farms that pop up in the next decade. Where do you think that money comes from?
@@SaintKimbo the CIS offers price guarantees to a TINY percentage of consented projects. The VAST majority of new projects are funded 100% privately. With government goals of 82% renewables by 2030 and the country only siting at c.40% right now. Look at that opportunity. If you think private money is not licking their lips at that you don’t know the industry as well as you think you do.
Not two systems John, Three Systems! A renewable system to provide immediate energy, a secondary system of renewables and storage and then a gas based system when the first two systems inevitability fails.
If Australia kept its fossil fuels and just used a little in Australia. CO2 emissions worldwide would fall. 20million battery vehicles with modern batteries and topped up daily with rooftop PV dirt-cheap 2cents kWh electricity and Sahara Desert type LATITUDES sunshine. No imported petroleum would be needed. Savings $60billion every year. Australia would not have to build massive $TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS more grid electricity capacity. Aidan Morrison said that the grid is the weak link in understanding too much grid electricity as a real solution, an impossible solution. Robert Parker has said the same thing more grid capacity is impossibly expensive. BOTH ARE RIGHT. Australia has 20million vehicles and 1million new imported vehicles each year. So, 20years for all vehicles to be replaced. Early adopters with high marginal tax rates will grab the big battery vehicles and save $3,000 taxfree on imported petroleum costs. On each vehicle they own. With rooftop PV dirt-cheap 2cents kWh electricity. They can save $2,000 to $5,000 on no grid electricity. Taxfree savings. Gas heating and cooking and hotwater, $2,000 more in taxfree savings. Say $10,000 or more taxfree savings every year. My friend saves $10,000 a quarter on his warehouse business rooftop PV systems. His roof is cooler shaded by the panels. Same for his home. $10,000. The remaining grid electricity customers are being hit with higher $kWh as the higher income taxpayers pull out of grid electricity. They know that nuclear electricity is 20years in the future and the LNP is perfect. The only difficulty is the owners of the $TRILLIONs national grid asset investment and owners cashflow problems. They need $100sBILLIONS cashflow every year. When more 2nd hand big battery vehicles are available then the mums and dads will switch off grid electricity for taxfree savings aswell. The home run around can do its 23hrs parking at home and all night long..
There’s zero point reading the ISP. I know, with absolute gut instinct intuition, it is garbage in and garbage out. High variable intermittent generation will not work without absolutely massive costs for building multiple capacities of other generation technologies that can run when the renewables can’t. It’s so crystal clear, to anyone that understands how the costs work. Every generation technology requires a profit to be built (assuming Government doesn’t build it). We need multiples of capacity to be built compared to what we’ve historically paid for. It is therefore multiples more expensive than a system built with minimal capacity that can run at high efficiencies. And this is before we even get into the nuances of transmission, distribution, signal strength, frequency, black start, minimum load and on and on technical engineering issues we need to find solutions for. Trying to get the non-intuitive types, or those indoctrinated to believe in climate change, is extremely difficult or next to impossible in the current environment. Then we have political speech restrictions that prevents those in the industry from raising issues because it is career suicide and Government entities careers boom under the current ideology because there are so many problems that we need more and more bureaucrats to manage them. All the while the public largely lives in ignorance of the largest energy crisis our country has ever experienced heading our way because selling simple ideas that sound nice like renewables are cheapest and we’re saving the climate is a very easy sell. I fear that it may take a major crisis before the current course corrects, but by then it will be extremely difficult and will take significant amounts of time to dig ourselves out of the hole we created for ourselves.
1:01:18 There are NO solutions, ONLY trade offs.--Dr. Thomas Sowell. Much less "Final Solutions". Never had been, never will be, because we are Humans, not GOD(S)! Or Allah, Jesus, Mohammed or any God by ANY Cultures name or capability. Nor COMMITTEES of humans. Or PARTIES, Countries, Political systems or anything. Now, nor likely in any distant future or technology conceivable. All we will ever do is the best we can AFFORD right now.
Renewables won't lead to no disaster, can't take some that's saying energy production is a disaster seriously. Trying to take other sources out is a disaster, instead of integrating both. Solar is a good example of dirt cheap energy, just integrate instead of replacing
Germany has poor wind and solar resources. Just because they have higher electricity prices as a result, it doesn't prove that Reliance on wind and solar will inevitably result in higher electricity costs.
True, but reason does. There is no feasible storage option. Absent that, the renewable infrastructure must be backed up to 100% of capacity, i.e. duplicated. Add into that the temporary nature of renewables and the exorbitant cost of replacement, not just in production but in terms of limited mineral resources, and it simply is not a sustainable option.
Germany has spent an estimated $500 BILLION on renewable energy projects in the last couple of decades, if they have got "poor wind and solar" resources, they haven't spent that money very wisely, have they?
@ What's your point? Whatever the abundance of solar and wind resources available, transmission, distribution, infrastructure for storage and a need for profit, will keep on raising power prices, as it has been doing for the last decade, unti the economy is in ruins. Even AEMO and CSIRO concede that you cannot run the grid on renewables, without some sort of alternative back up, probably gas, which we just don't have enough facilities of, ready at this stage, that's another expense that has to paid for by the Consumer. Not looking good is it?
@ we live in a capitalist society so yes private companies that do work at risk want to make a profit. So perhaps your issue is with capitalism, not renewable energy? The coal plant owners don’t do it for the fun of it! Solar and wind farms backed by batteries works in south Australia which is on track to be run on 100% renewable sources by 2027 (currently at c.80%) So it CAN be done. The precedent is there. Doesn’t look so bad does it?
Renewables will not lead to an energy crisis when done correctly as has already been proven in a number of places around the world nuclear was a great idea 15 years ago but not anymore they are the most expensive way to produce electricity and that is a fact.
Wind and solar with battery backup is what our government is proposing. This has not been successful anywhere in the world. Germany went in hardest for more than two decades, shutting down their perfectly reliable nuclear plants and most of their coal-fired power plants. As a result of this massive error they have been in energy crisis since long before the war in Ukraine. They were purchasing gas from Russia and electricity from France via interconnectors because of their own severe shortfalls of energy. They were also forced to send most of their manufacturing offshore due to the exorbitant cost of electricity, as well as it's intermittent nature. Of course the war in Ukraine made things worse for them and they were forced to reopen more than twenty of their coal-fired power plants. Going down the renewables track has brought Germany to its knees, and it was once the manufacturing hub of Europe. Developed nations across the Northern Hemisphere agreed to increase nuclear threefold at COP28.
PREDATORY DELAY STRATEGY 😮, PDS, to say green hydrogen becaue it ignores the ROI, return on investment, of the pipeline infrastructure. Exactly the same for grid electricity. PDS, predatory delay strategy, when rooftop PV is ignored and the words RENEWABLES is used and spoken as if equivalent to DISTANT renewables. Distant renewables need the grid and must include the grid costs. Rooftop PV and battery electric vehicle are a private matter for private owners. NOT ON THE GRID is not on the grid. Millions and millions and millions will be NOT ON THE GRID. The new technology of rooftop PV and BEVs, battery electric vehicles, will destroy new nuclear technology in Australia, destroy grid cashflow. Stop saying that private investment is part of grid investment. The man is a language genius. Thanks for the clarity. Sarcasm alert.
I was homeless, did drugs, went into prison, where I got to know God. He changed my life. Now I have a home, a lovely husband and a lovely year old daughter (Zoe), and a stream of income that gets us $37,000 Every 28days. Plus a new identity - a child of God. Hallelujah!!!
USA has 4kW generation capacity per capita. Australia has 1kW generation capacity. USA manufacturing is on a different level. Australia grid electricity energy is only 1 10th of the total fossil fueled energy. Australia grid is fragile because it is extremely expensive to over build. Grid owners investment is $TRILLIONS Grid owners need cashflow $100sBILLIONS. Grid owners customers are the cashflow. Grid owners losing customers to rooftop PV and v2g BEVs big battery free Self-storage 23hrs every day and all night long means the remaining customers pay more to maintain grid owners cashflow. SHTTSNPANTS fundamental problems for grid owners cashflow. SHTTSNPANTS fundamental feelings for late adopters low income families. Grid expansion is $TRILLIONS and decades.. Nuclear electricity is grid electricity. Electricity generation is dirt cheap. Grid electricity is extremely expensive. 50cents Rooftop PV electricity is 2cents kWh electricity at the customer's location. Nuclear electricity has a fundamental problem to replace fossil fuels, imported petroleum, imported priced natural gas, rooftop PV electricity at the customer's location. Nuclear electricity has a fundamental economic problem to overcome the $10,000 tax-free savings for high income marginal taxpayers. Business quarterly $10,000 tax-free savings. This is happening now. The silence is deafening. The grid owners electricity is getting more expensive for the poor and slow adopters. Not only grid expansion to replace fossil fuels, a 10x problem, but also grid expansion to become a manufacturering nation, a 4x problem. Grids are 10x generation costs. Australia's problem is the world's CO2 emissions. 80% of the world's population live in dictatorships and dictators love plutonium and nuclear electricity industries. John Andersn and Aidan Morrison are lost in distraction.
I work in steel and twice last year we had to shut down the plant because the cost rose to $7500 /MWh for a plant that uses 32MW 24/7 when the normal cost currently is about $400/MW/h. For that 1 hr of operation for normal to high cost which is normally $12,800 to $240,000 this is what kills industry in 1 hr at that cost is nearly 1 days operation at 18.75 hrs of operation. and that $7500/MWh the business is not viable to operate. The business is lucky that it produces onsite at least 60MW that does not include the 32MW mentioned the site uses about 90 to 100MW /hr for its operation when in full production. This is what kills manufacturing, 5% of GDP is this and it is getting smaller eventually we will not make anything and we will all be poorer for it.
Call Sky News Australia..... PETA credlin.. Andrew Bolt...... Paul Murray.....they will take this issue with you. We all know Bowen is a liar incompetent and pathetic 🇦🇺👗
I went to school with Aidan, a truely intelligent and inspiring character.
We have NO need to reduce fossil fuel use.
The only people who say they are concerned about carbon dioxide emissions are fools and politicians seeking the support of fools.
Co2 is greening the planet, and keeping us out of an ice age.
Another comment not showing.
Coal is the only fossil fuel.
China as a world guide is not a world leader.
China has had a health explosion and the adult population has lived successfully into much later life.
Genetics is now the wall the adult population is hitting and aged is weakening the workforce.
And workers are leaving the workforce.
On the farm food was cheap and the family large.
In the city factory's and apartments with mortgages and limited size the family was small and less than 1 child per woman, working women.
The massive famine that killed 50million
Yang, Xinhua News Agency senior journalist and author of Tombstone: The Great Chinese Famine, 1958-1962, concluded there were 36 million deaths due to starvation, while another 40 million others failed to be born, so that "China's total population loss during the Great Famine then comes to 76 million."
Geopolitics is a method of studying foreign policy to understand, explain, and predict international political behavior through geographical variables.
China has no replacement work force.
China population is a false measure of a huge number of old people unstable population.
China is a miscalculation.
In 20years I will not be here and China will not be here.
Russia has a crashing population and Europe has a crashing population.
France's population looks stable.
USA and Canada and Mexico looks stable.
Australia and New Zealand looks stable.
Australia will be in political stable sunshine latitudes.
Sahara desert latitudes but without the dictatorships and wars. 10million have died in Africa.
Nobody should quote China as guidance for the future. 2/3rds of their housing stock is empty..
Access to cheap energy is the foundation of any functional ecconomy.
That is why America and China prioritise cheap energy.
Without cheap energy you can do anything that those who do have cheap energy.
We have enough gas and nuclear resources to have unlimited cheap energy independently of the world market, just like America.
If our politicians managed the gas resources like Oman does we could have the best country on earth to live in.
No ecconomy in history has survived high energy costs.
if only the conservatives didn't sell off all our state assets and resources to corporations for f'k all nothing huh? Amazing living in such a resource rich country and have little to show for it, probably some of the highest costs in the world.
We cannot compete with cheap labour but we could compete with cheap energy. We have lots of it all, coal, gas and uranium. We just need government to stop playing politics and do what is best for our country.
Excellent discussion with Aidan and really appreciated his detailed expose of the energy landscape in Australia. Well done John for engaging with such an experienced, knowledgeable and articulate guest 👍 Should be compulsory viewing for all govt. decision makers.
Thanks Aidan and John for cutting through the humbug.
The problem with this discussion is that it is simply 2 people agreeing with each other in front of an audience who want to hear what they want to hear, *but they are right about a few things.*
I am an engineer and there is some very valid points in this like the fact that electric trucks have failed and there is no electric alternative to diesel tractors. The other industry that wont be changing at all is the metallurgical coal for making steel.
They are also right that the integrated plan will NOT WORK, but the real reason why is something these 2 clowns don't talk about.
But on so many other points they are either WRONG or they are just leaving out facts they should be telling everyone. One major thing they do not tell you is that the nuclear option will cost EVERY HOUSEHOLD in Australia at least $25,000 in high energy bills while it gets built. It will simply take at least 25 years to build out what's proposed and that will mean your power bills will stay the same for the next 25 years costing you at least $1000 each year.
The real cause why our energy bills are so high is because we haven't built nay major power stations in 25 years. the last reasonably large (but still under 1,000MW) power stations were Millmerran and Kogan Creek in Queensland. The 3 biggest power stations in Australia at Eraring & Bayswater in NSW and Loy Yang in Victoria were all built in the 1980s. Meanwhile the population went from 15 million in the 80s to 20 million in the early 2000s and its now 27 million. WE SIMPLY HAVE NOT BUILT ENOUGH POWER STATIONS.
The real problem with the Integrated plan is that our renewables HAVE NOT BEEN PLANNED. Its all be dictated by the foreign companies building it. Its NOT been well planned and that's why its a mess.
As for coal to be used for power is a dead industry and they all know it. Even the Chinese have stopped building coal. They're building nuclear and renewables side by side. In fact the Chinese have installed more renewables in recent years than the rest of the world combined. In some of their provinces 80% of homes now have roof top solar.
AI requires at least 10x anything else out there. If Australia wants any chance of future-proofing our economy, we need nuclear. There’s no way around it, and I’m HERE FOR IT! Bring it on!!!
Yeah just adopt and install the techbros surveillance plan here - what an idea!
@@questioneverythingalways820 dude, what? You know the Labor Minister for Cybersecurity drives a Chinese EV? What does nuclear power have to do with that? I assume you mean Silicone Valley companies?
@@questioneverythingalways820
How’s Getup going 😂
the AI bubble that just burst you mean?
The problem is that politicians are convinced that they know more than experts like you just spoke to.
The only thing politicians know is how to line their own pockets.
No, they 100% lnow it is a lie. They want the kickbacks from the renewable energy sector
The man is not an expert, he is confused and confusing.
@@stephenbrickwood1602What is he confused about? Exactly where is he wrong and what is he wrong about?
@@margaretarmstrong2445you won’t get a response unfortunately
There was a time that I remember that people just plugged in and did not worry. Cheap energy created in the 60's by a society wanting to build a better future has has been lost to ideologues that hate people and truth.
'Make electricity boring again'
To ideologies? I think you meant to say corporations, with the generous help of the liberal party and even apparently labour in more recent decades.
Hit 200k today. I'm really grateful for all the knowledge and nuggets you had thrown my way over the last months.
Started with 14k in June 2024
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大家都这样"抄袭", "UA-cam"令人沮丧
1859
This gentleman is brilliant. He has a complete grasp of the whole complex mess that is our energy system. He is brave, bold, articulate and clever. John, thank you!
If you look at China they are building new coal power stations, renewables and nuclear all at once. They are implementing renewables and running coal until the nuclear options take over. They are doubling down on their manufacturing, AI and infrastrcture global control strategy. We must do the same before our economy is further hollowed out. Globally Iron ore supply will increase dramatically for China in the next couple of years. Coal usage will dissapear too. China is the greatest supplier and processor of rare earth minerals. Australia's is sleepwalking and immersed in simple minded political narratives. It doesn't understand that the world has already changed.
Not to mention massive dams for hydro
China as a world guide is not a world leader.
China has had a health explosion and the adult population has lived successfully into much later life.
Genetics is now the wall the adult population is hitting and aged is weakening the workforce.
And workers are leaving the workforce.
On the farm food was cheap and the family large.
In the city factory's and apartments with mortgages and limited size the family was small and less than 1 child per woman, working women.
The massive famine that killed 50million
Yang, Xinhua News Agency senior journalist and author of Tombstone: The Great Chinese Famine, 1958-1962, concluded there were 36 million deaths due to starvation, while another 40 million others failed to be born, so that "China's total population loss during the Great Famine then comes to 76 million."
Geopolitics is a method of studying foreign policy to understand, explain, and predict international political behavior through geographical variables.
China has no replacement work force.
China population is a false measure of a huge number of old people unstable population.
China is a miscalculation.
In 20years I will not be here and China will not be here.
Russia has a crashing population and Europe has a crashing population.
France's population looks stable.
USA and Canada and Mexico looks stable.
Australia and New Zealand looks stable.
Australia will be in political stable sunshine latitudes.
Sahara desert latitudes but without the dictatorships and wars. 10million have died in Africa.
Nobody should quote China as guidance for the future. 2/3rds of their housing stock is empty.
Actually they have stopped build NEW COAL and started tearing down older coal.
They are building nuclear at a impressive rate and in fact right now they are arguably the worlds experts in building nuclear just because of how many they have built.
What you and others ignore is that the Chinese have also installed more solar and wind in recent years than the rest of the world combined. In some provinces 80% of homes have rooftop solar.
We export coal to china and India so they can have cheap power! Unfortunately we must keep using it until we have something reliably better! Nuclear
If you think renewables are the way then first watch this clip.
ua-cam.com/video/KmxOWqMsDxM/v-deo.html
@ianbutler6583 If CO2 emissions climate destabilisation is the reason to go to clean electricity then the most expensive energy, GRID ELECTRICITY, is just stupidly impossible.
Including nuclear grid electricity.
10 times more electricity to replace fossil fuels.
And the GRID transmission is 10 times more expensive than the electricity generation plants.
Rooftop PV with BEV massive batteries, free massive storage on wheels 23hrs daily and all night long is the only way.
The only economical way.
No grid costs.
No new grid capacity construction.
Existing national grid is too valuable to waste and too expensive to expand.
Existing national grid must be protected.
Existing national grid cashflow must be protected.
Over build rooftop PV and BEVs battery storage can feed-in electricity in the millions and millions, 20million, 247.
Heavy industrial electricity customers moving away from fossil fuels to clean electricity need more grid electricity.
Today's emergency is failing unmaintained and unupgraded generation plant and unmaintained grid transmission.
Wind and solar farms and rooftop PV and a million new BEV each year is the cheapest way to low CO2 emissions.
No farm lands and no bushland will make the entire country cry.
Climate destabilisation and bushfires and decade-long droughts and desertification is just another Sahara Desert.
I would go so far as to say its all about global control and not about global warming. Historically people become more prosperous. 1000 years ago sheep grazed in Greenland. We are not that warm now.
Then came the little ice age and you could walk across the Thames. We are getting a bit warmer again. Which is perfectly normal. We are somewhere between 1000 AD and 1700 AD. All periods we've managed previously, many, many times.
As i see it the climate cult is about global control, and the impoverishment of we, the people of Australia, and the west in general.
take the tin foil hat off annie and get some rest
@@rustyfeatherstone93 The evidence says he is correct.
@@bigboy9693 the evidence of what?
@@rustyfeatherstone93 The grifters run the green scam.
Australian energy policy is self deletion. Worse still it makes our future major adversary more prosperous all the while while we export CO2 energy with low or no royalties all tax free of course
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
If only this were required viewing in our boardrooms, parliament and schools. The haters may hate but they won't be able to point to a single line in here as false. Great presentation as usual.
You are forgetting about the brown paper bag deals.
I wish
Imagine trying to evacuate from a bush fire when car's battery is flat.
The fire was probably started by the car battery 😂
John you have a great grasp of the major issues - great interview
@@2wiseib Except for the belief that emissions are a problem.
Except he keeps interrupting. Really painful
see Princeton physicist William HAPPER on stimulus stimulation and the lack of a CO2 problem
Sorry but Willian Happer has been dismissed as a complete fraud.
NOTHING and I MEAN NOTHIGN he says stands up to scrutiny.
@@tonywilson4713Who supposedly 'exposed' him, and what did they expose? If you are referring to CO2, it has not been proven definitely by anyone at any time that this is responsible for changes in climate or weather for that matter. CO2 has been far higher in earths history, even during ice ages. CO2 is simply being used as a marketing tool to sell renewables infrastructure. Al Gore was the first one to market it in a big way.
An excellent explanation John.
Thank you for shining a light on the fiasco which is our energy crisis.
Aiden is GOAT of explaining how bad the Labor party's enbergy policy actually is. The LNP should bring him on with Ted, to tell the Australian people there is a better plan.
Oh boy, next you're gonna tell us they are good economic managers... The Liberals along with the Nationals have been in government for far longer than Labor have so the blame for poor energy policy should be put on the Liberals not Labor! Labor will get rid of net zero soon same as the rest of the world.
Solar and wind is free. Nuclear is not. It costs a lot to build, operate and maintain.
@peterking8564 that's a false ideology peddled by Bowen and similar ideologues. Harnessing intermittent energy sources, and using them in a stable power system, is not free but rather, extremely costly because of infrastructure and stabilisation processes plus parallel systems to ensure base load power is available when the inevitable happens.@@peterking8564
@peterking8564 solar output is poor, nuclear output is gigantic!
@nomadheros4663 I have home battery and I'm nearly energy independent just on solar. This is just propaganda
When Matt Kean was treasurer, someone should have walked up to him and handed him an application form to join the Greens!
Why? He was destroying LNP and doing more brand damage from within to ensure the party would be out of government for a decade !!!
Lest just forget renewable and go nuclear and coal and gas, only way to save the country
@Mizone505
I think renewable have a role,
But get the cheap reliable base load supply sorted before starting the vanity projects
@stevec9972 yep i see solarr wind batteries at places like remote communities, stations if not allready, remote towns or even medium towns. Somewhere you dont have industry , manufacturing, high useage items. Just normal household with a few shops, refrigeratoration etc. For cities, urban industrial base load from either 3 is the qay ro go i reckon
Exactly everything you have talked about, we in America have gone through for the last 4 yrs under the Biden Admin. Hopefully common sense will be returned under the new Trump era. If Trump had not run in 2016 we would have been in the same place as Germany. Trump's first term interrupted their "Green Plan".
Our electricity prices are much higher than the US even under Biden. And our major opposition political party offers nothing different.
Hahaha hate to point out but everyone here thinks Trump is a joke.
Common sense and Trump.. Really?
@@phillippereira6468
Maybe a joke??? Preferable to a Turnip obviously. We will be able to charge our EV 's & run our A/C at the same time.
@@phillippereira6468 Approximately where is here.
“No Cost Solar” ads peppered through the video to top it off 😂😂
Energy from the sun & wind maybe free but harnessing it for consumers is way more expensive than producing it from gas coal or nuclear.
Do you think replacing wind turbines solar panels and batteries every 20 years is free? Let alone the cost of building them in the first place .Sure exposes the mindset of some
.
@allanbudge-sb9zj I clearly state that harnessing solar & wind is not free , you have misinterpreted my comment .
Exactly correct! That is why we now have to use coal or gas for base load power while we build nuclear.
categorically not true
@@allanbudge-sb9zj nobody says its free. It is multitudes cheaper than nuclear though.
Keep up the good fight !!!
Big battery fire in Melbourne recently.
Also Mosspoint landing.
@lynndonharnell422 don't mention the fire risk🤫
Ruins the clean & free image
It won't be long before the headlines start announcing "The First time in six months that there were less than one hundred battery fires in one day!"
One of the best videos on this subject. It resonates with common sense.
Bowen knows voters have increasingly shorter attention spans and few will watch this 79 minute presentation. Voters are more prone to accepting a simple lie than a complex truth. This message needs to be dumbed down.
But hey I'm a dumb and did it. So there. Although I did get take a break.
Seriously though it does need to be shared in bit size portions.
The "shorts" will do that. And even kids watch them. And kids don't believe in CC anymore. Today it's the cause of blue haired old people.
I tried to reply 😢
Even kids don't believe anymore.
Great video giving great insights int Energy Debate
why are they lying and driving,it so hard. that bowen is a rodent!
To put things in perspective about how little Australia matters in the big scheme: Facebook is building a new data centre in Louisiana that will consume more electricity than all of South Australia and it will be powered by a dedicated gas turbine power plant.
At some point surely, the public is going to wake up and realise that Chris Bowen actually has no clothes on.
Except he told them he had new clothes and they don't question him.
Coal-fired is Australia's cheapest and cleanest power source and it greening the planet.
No one has any idea how inefficient solar is I install it for a living. It’s ok for a back up or a warehouses that are using the power during the day but other that it’s useless or spend 20 grand on batteries which is pointless cause all your doing is just pay 10 years worth of bills up front then you’ll have to replace anyway once there charge cycles runs out.
John the sooner we can get an energy provider to start adding or rebuilding their power plant (coal/gas) they will hold the keys to the nation- whoever has a fully working power station in ten years time will be able to demand anything from the Gov and or states just to keep the power on
32:36 it’s not just about the powerlines. There are entire cascading systems that MUST be added to nodes across the entire network. Bankrupts us many times over and won’t even function.
Politicians should be shamed about how little they understand how the world works
Thanks John and Aiden. Explained very simply and well
Why are some politicians so dumb?
They should be held responsible for sever stuff ups
WHAT THEY DON"T SAY ABOUT KEPCO the South Korean company that makes the APR 14000 nuclear reactors.
1) Kepco were caught falsifying records, test reports and other paperwork by the South Korean Government. So forget it as a "Reliable Supplier"
2) The reactors built in the Middle East took a similar time (8-9 years) as the American designed AP1000s took in China and if you look at actual construction time (without the standdowns) it was also similar to what it took at Vogtle in Georgia.
I am in favor of nuclear power being PAR of Australia's future BUT IT HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT and for the RIGHT REASONS.
Thanks. Interesting discussion and some good points. While I accept the principle of the importance of low energy prices to a healthy economy, Australian manufacturing, like other similar sized western economies, declined decades ago for a number of reasons. Many industries disappeared during a period of cheap government subsidised energy. Government inaction and inability to secure domestic supply and price guarantees for Australian gas has been a major factor implicated in non-viability and closure for several large industries in recent years. In regard to your question regarding why Aussies might think we can do what other countries cannot? I suggest one reason might be that many hundreds of thousands, including many in rural areas as you well know John; have reduced their electricity bill to zero using relatively inexpensive available technology. Those able to afford and operate an EV may have even saved significantly on their transport energy use and those few who are experiencing the freedom and independence of connection to a microgrid network have seen what is possible. This fact is a major hurdle the nuclear energy industry is now having to overcome if it wants to change the hearts and minds of the public. One issue rarely mentioned by nuclear proponents is the lack of flexibility with current nuclear power gen technology. If it enters the mix in a large scale it will negate (maybe even isolate and disconnect) those using renewables, so it will be seen as a threat, just as coal fired gen is currently.
In the uk we recently had a cold dunkelflaute when we were generating less than 5% renewable energy for 7 days.
Also if you listen to respected scientists like Drs Koonin, Lindzen, Moore (and many others) who show that there is not scientific consensus on the effect that humans have on the climate. In particular Koonin’s book “Unsettled” bases his claims directly from the IPCC data, gold standard for climate change science. So we are putting ourselves through all this economic pain with limited understanding of the actual outcomes .
Unfortunately, both Labor and the LNP are committed to this renewables lunacy
Exactly. Democracy, at this stage is just an illusion.
Only till they are sacked
Who is Dutton? What party (an outside observer) asks.
@@wheel-man5319 Leader of the LNP coalition, which is in opposition
@grannyannie2948 Didn't I hear him give a speech saying that renewables are necessary?
That net-zero is desirable?
John, could you please have a discussion on the projected total system cost of the 2 options discussed here: 82% renewables or a balanced mix of coal/nuclear/gas/renewables. We hear a lot of the costs of nuclear but not a lot of detail on the full system cost of the Gov's Renewable plan.
This asking industry to turn off to save power is already happening in your oft forgotten cousins down here in New Zealand....
We haven't built a power station of significant size in NZ in about 40 years so yeah, great times....
It is already happening in Australia too, a iron smelter business in Melbourne IIRC, runs production based on the wholesale spot price of electricity and shuts down if it raises to a certain price.
You will own nothing, you will be happy.
Klaus Schwab
@@wheel-man5319 : Mr Evil himself.
Clown swabs
@@danielkempton9659 : I can't understand how that man can be so cruel to so many people simply for his own greed and ego.
Yes
I believe their elitists. They truly believe they should live a big life and be in control. And, we serve them.
The massive service chargers for the transformers, inverters, synchronous condensers, rectifiers, batteries and transmissions lines needed to try and couple vast arrays of solar panels and wind turbines into the grid, means that energy from renewables can never be cheap let alone reliable.
We have put forward countless submissions as to why wind, solar and backup batteries are not a good idea. We icludes verifiable facts and references. The IPC ignore all information put forward. They insist that they look at every project on its own merit yet fail to acknowledge that the serious issues around this infrastructure is common to the renewables industry as a whole.
We have been presenting detailed information for more than five years now and they know that if they took up any one of the major issues for a single project, it would apply to all subsequent projects. They haven't even been able to refute our evidence and in order to dismiss our submissions they have labelled us sceptics.
Wow! Surely John will bring Aidan's brilliant investigative work to the attention of the LNP to run hard with running up to the election.
Just remember this. Peter's plan is for 45% less power but is only 44% cheaper.
This discussion is mute the economic realities will play out.
One thing not mentioned is that cheap PV solar and batteries only come from China. To be fare, the cost and schedule of nuclear should have been based on Chinese reactors.
Fair... equal treatment
Fare, what you pay to ride the tube...
Don't worry the Chinese are currently building another, half a dozen or so, coal powered plants, because their other 1100 coal power plants cannot keep up the demand from the factories that are making windmills and solar panels for the countries that want to go green, it's a sweet deal.
@@SaintKimbo The Chinese have 58 operational reactors, 29 under construction, 36 planned and 158 proposed. They cost about $3 billion per GW reactor and take about 6 years to build. If Australia is willing to use PV solar and batteries from China, then maybe they should consider letting China build their nuclear reactors.
The nuclear option should be referred to as the nuclear necessity, complex systems to replace baseload generation can only be considered less reliable due to the complexity.
You only need half a brain to understand that importing manufacturing from another country's coal based production does not get this country to net zero carbon, unless you conveniently ignore the carbon cost of the imported products. If we were to account for the carbon cost of all our imports, we'd likely find that our county's carbon emissions are through the roof, with zero chance of ever getting to "net zero" ever.
Virtue signalling for the braindead has a high price for everyone including the pragmatic amongst us that see's planting a tree to offset your personal carbon footprint a pathetic way to maintain a high carbon lifestyle, particularly those who bray loud and hard that we all need to reduce our carbon footprint whilst jetsetting their way around the globe often accumulating 10X the carbon use of ordinary people. But they did plant a tree, which probably died due to not being properly located, to valiantly claim they don't use any carbon at all.
This we know so just dont' do it. Drill, baby, drill!
This discussion is far beyond Chris Bowen's mental capacity to understand.
Energy could cost a typical household only $1 per year if the science of the nuclear thorium is implemented. Netherland based company is just doing this now. Why can’t we?
Roughly 35% of emissions come from electricity production. Road transport is another 35% nuclear can be used therefore to convert 70% of energy usage to electricity. Given that we can expect some pretty good batteries in the next 5 to 10 years. That only leaves 70% about 5% is calcination of concrete which can be converted to using hydrogen obtained from the electricity. Maybe two or 3% is iron or smelting which can also be converted to use of hydrogen to make ammonia only requires hydrogen nitrogen again. Electricity can make hydrogen very efficiently so long as it’s cheap electricity so 75% can be converted over to say nuclear electricity or if you want to live in a bit of a fantasy wind power or solar. So we probably still need some diesel for tillage that even then hybrid hydrogen and diesel tractors can be built in storage of hydrogen is pretty good and safe at the moment.
I used to have a fascination with environmental energy sources (I hate using the word "renewables") as a kid but eventually learned that they're very unreliable, weak and expensive. So that made me lose interest. If that makes sense to a 10 year old kid, why on God's green earth are solar and wind treated as the golden child of our energy future?
John we need you back in parliament
Look at South Africa and see how unreliable energy has made life harder and more expensive.
The real reason for this is the 1975 Lima agreement by the government to the letter.look it up
Nuclear for Australia
I just hope that Australian's wake up before it is to late!
where would you put the power plants?
They want to transition to an energy source that needs climate certainty because the climate is uncertain.
A very important point from 31:00 Australians need to take notice.
The problem with this discussion is that it is simply 2 people agreeing with each other in front of an audience who want to hear what they want to hear, *but they are right about a few things.*
I am an engineer and there is some very valid points in this like the fact that electric trucks have failed and there is no electric alternative to diesel tractors. The other industry that wont be changing at all is the metallurgical coal for making steel.
They are also right that the integrated plan will NOT WORK, but the real reason why is something these 2 clowns don't talk about.
But on so many other points they are either WRONG or they are just leaving out facts they should be telling everyone. One major thing they do not tell you is that the nuclear option will cost EVERY HOUSEHOLD in Australia at least $25,000 in high energy bills while it gets built. It will simply take at least 25 years to build out what's proposed and that will mean your power bills will stay the same for the next 25 years costing you at least $1000 each year.
The real cause why our energy bills are so high is because we haven't built nay major power stations in 25 years. the last reasonably large (but still under 1,000MW) power stations were Millmerran and Kogan Creek in Queensland. The 3 biggest power stations in Australia at Eraring & Bayswater in NSW and Loy Yang in Victoria were all built in the 1980s. Meanwhile the population went from 15 million in the 80s to 20 million in the early 2000s and its now 27 million. WE SIMPLY HAVE NOT BUILT ENOUGH POWER STATIONS.
The real problem with the Integrated plan is that our renewables HAVE NOT BEEN PLANNED. Its all be dictated by the foreign companies building it. Its NOT been well planned and that's why its a mess.
As for coal to be used for power is a dead industry and they all know it. Even the Chinese have stopped building coal. They're building nuclear and renewables side by side. In fact the Chinese have installed more renewables in recent years than the rest of the world combined. In some of their provinces 80% of homes now have roof top solar.
@@tonywilson4713 China building nuclear with renewables and keeps its power cheap, but Australia can't?
You don't know what you are talking about. Nuclear doesn't take 25 years to build. In fact, China's building nuclear in 3-5 years per plant. Companies like Terrapower have blueprints and designs for essentially building nuclear power plants from a moving production line. Meaning nuclear plants are identical, every component is identical and interchangeable. Similar to how they make cars - brings cost and time down.
So frankly, you have no f***ing idea.
China has not stopped building coal plants. Yes they are building a lot of renewables but their emissions are heading up at a great rate of knots.
RE has already delivered those $1000 power increases and it will only get worse as we build more.
CO2 is a blessing and not a problem.
Australia emits 440 mill tonnes of co2.
1 mature tree absorbs 12kgs of co2.
There are 24 billion trees in Australia.
So Australia emits 440 million tonnes and absorbs 504 million tonnes !
Is that "science" or basic primary school maths ?
That does not include grasses, mangroves and coral reefs !
Google it yourself
I like it, but it must have taken a while to count all those trees!
@ianbutler6583 I tried counting them all but decided to Google it instead.
My point is this is never talked about by all the net zero people ? If they can talk and measure all the co2 emissions then why not absorption, that's how they work out carbon credits / tax.
He is forgetting that the cost of power aggregates through every step of the production and delivery cycle.
And with reduced CO2 we lose plant life.
How about we carry on with cheap and reliable coal and look into carbon capture technology, and we will promise to start shutting down our 6 or so when China starts closing down their more than 1100 coal plants, and India starts shutting down it's nearly 300 coal plants?
@@SaintKimbo cheap and reliable coal like at Eraring in NSW that is currently being subsidised by the government?
@@rustyfeatherstone93
Doesn't it occur to you that if renewables are so cheap, that private investment would be falling over themselves to build a renewables?
If you offered McDonalds a way to supply them their burger buns at, say 80% less than they are paying now, which would allow them to reduce the price of their burgers and still make a healthy profit, they would rush at that opportunity.
This is similar what renewables offer to the power industry, way cheaper source cost, yet there's no rush for that opportunity, the Government has to offer substantial financial benefits and subsidies, but they still are way behind on their targets.
Actions speak louder than words, don't they?
@ private investment is literally falling over themselves to build renewables mate. I’m a solar farm developer. Trust me there is no shortage of money. You watch the amount of batteries, solar farms and wind farms that pop up in the next decade. Where do you think that money comes from?
You know the thing that private investment won’t touch in Australia? Nuclear. Why is that do you think?
@@SaintKimbo the CIS offers price guarantees to a TINY percentage of consented projects. The VAST majority of new projects are funded 100% privately. With government goals of 82% renewables by 2030 and the country only siting at c.40% right now. Look at that opportunity. If you think private money is not licking their lips at that you don’t know the industry as well as you think you do.
I'm waiting for Bowen to start blaming battery fires on climate change...
But Bowen knows more than the experts!
How come our dumb politicians don't know this.
Because the scientists they use are politicised.
Because they are more interested in their ego's and votes instead of just doing what is best for the country, either that or they are just traitors.
Not two systems John, Three Systems! A renewable system to provide immediate energy, a secondary system of renewables and storage and then a gas based system when the first two systems inevitability fails.
John, let your guests answer your questions! 😂
We already have driven ammonia (fertilizer) production away, Gibson Island shut Jan 2024.
Brilliant thank you.
Or all of the refrigeration goes off then we have huge wastes of food and other services.😊
They don't want us to have food. 2030: You Will Own Nothing.
They don't care if we have food.
Peak Australian corruption 📈
So, what do we do about this major issue ?
If Australia kept its fossil fuels and just used a little in Australia.
CO2 emissions worldwide would fall.
20million battery vehicles with modern batteries and topped up daily with rooftop PV dirt-cheap 2cents kWh electricity and Sahara Desert type LATITUDES sunshine.
No imported petroleum would be needed. Savings $60billion every year.
Australia would not have to build massive $TRILLIONS and TRILLIONS more grid electricity capacity.
Aidan Morrison said that the grid is the weak link in understanding too much grid electricity as a real solution, an impossible solution.
Robert Parker has said the same thing more grid capacity is impossibly expensive.
BOTH ARE RIGHT.
Australia has 20million vehicles and 1million new imported vehicles each year.
So, 20years for all vehicles to be replaced.
Early adopters with high marginal tax rates will grab the big battery vehicles and save $3,000 taxfree on imported petroleum costs.
On each vehicle they own.
With rooftop PV dirt-cheap 2cents kWh electricity.
They can save $2,000 to $5,000 on no grid electricity. Taxfree savings.
Gas heating and cooking and hotwater, $2,000 more in taxfree savings.
Say $10,000 or more taxfree savings every year.
My friend saves $10,000 a quarter on his warehouse business rooftop PV systems.
His roof is cooler shaded by the panels.
Same for his home. $10,000.
The remaining grid electricity customers are being hit with higher $kWh as the higher income taxpayers pull out of grid electricity.
They know that nuclear electricity is 20years in the future and the LNP is perfect.
The only difficulty is the owners of the $TRILLIONs national grid asset investment and owners cashflow problems.
They need $100sBILLIONS cashflow every year.
When more 2nd hand big battery vehicles are available then the mums and dads will switch off grid electricity for taxfree savings aswell.
The home run around can do its 23hrs parking at home and all night long..
There’s zero point reading the ISP. I know, with absolute gut instinct intuition, it is garbage in and garbage out. High variable intermittent generation will not work without absolutely massive costs for building multiple capacities of other generation technologies that can run when the renewables can’t. It’s so crystal clear, to anyone that understands how the costs work. Every generation technology requires a profit to be built (assuming Government doesn’t build it). We need multiples of capacity to be built compared to what we’ve historically paid for. It is therefore multiples more expensive than a system built with minimal capacity that can run at high efficiencies. And this is before we even get into the nuances of transmission, distribution, signal strength, frequency, black start, minimum load and on and on technical engineering issues we need to find solutions for. Trying to get the non-intuitive types, or those indoctrinated to believe in climate change, is extremely difficult or next to impossible in the current environment. Then we have political speech restrictions that prevents those in the industry from raising issues because it is career suicide and Government entities careers boom under the current ideology because there are so many problems that we need more and more bureaucrats to manage them. All the while the public largely lives in ignorance of the largest energy crisis our country has ever experienced heading our way because selling simple ideas that sound nice like renewables are cheapest and we’re saving the climate is a very easy sell. I fear that it may take a major crisis before the current course corrects, but by then it will be extremely difficult and will take significant amounts of time to dig ourselves out of the hole we created for ourselves.
There is this suicidal thought that the pre industrial life was the golden age.
1:01:18 There are NO solutions, ONLY trade offs.--Dr. Thomas Sowell.
Much less "Final Solutions". Never had been, never will be, because we are Humans, not GOD(S)! Or Allah, Jesus, Mohammed or any God by ANY Cultures name or capability.
Nor COMMITTEES of humans. Or PARTIES, Countries, Political systems or anything.
Now, nor likely in any distant future or technology conceivable.
All we will ever do is the best we can AFFORD right now.
The grid economics is the centre of understanding of all countries' clean energy capacity.
John and Aidan are right and wrong.
Renewables won't lead to no disaster, can't take some that's saying energy production is a disaster seriously.
Trying to take other sources out is a disaster, instead of integrating both.
Solar is a good example of dirt cheap energy, just integrate instead of replacing
Germany has poor wind and solar resources. Just because they have higher electricity prices as a result, it doesn't prove that Reliance on wind and solar will inevitably result in higher electricity costs.
True, but reason does. There is no feasible storage option. Absent that, the renewable infrastructure must be backed up to 100% of capacity, i.e. duplicated. Add into that the temporary nature of renewables and the exorbitant cost of replacement, not just in production but in terms of limited mineral resources, and it simply is not a sustainable option.
Germany has spent an estimated $500 BILLION on renewable energy projects in the last couple of decades, if they have got "poor wind and solar" resources, they haven't spent that money very wisely, have they?
@@SaintKimbo luckily Australia has an abundance of solar and wind resources right?
@
What's your point?
Whatever the abundance of solar and wind resources available, transmission, distribution, infrastructure for storage and a need for profit, will keep on raising power prices, as it has been doing for the last decade, unti the economy is in ruins.
Even AEMO and CSIRO concede that you cannot run the grid on renewables, without some sort of alternative back up, probably gas, which we just don't have enough facilities of, ready at this stage, that's another expense that has to paid for by the Consumer.
Not looking good is it?
@ we live in a capitalist society so yes private companies that do work at risk want to make a profit. So perhaps your issue is with capitalism, not renewable energy? The coal plant owners don’t do it for the fun of it!
Solar and wind farms backed by batteries works in south Australia which is on track to be run on 100% renewable sources by 2027 (currently at c.80%) So it CAN be done. The precedent is there.
Doesn’t look so bad does it?
Renewables will not lead to an energy crisis when done correctly as has already been proven in a number of places around the world nuclear was a great idea 15 years ago but not anymore they are the most expensive way to produce electricity and that is a fact.
Wind and solar with battery backup is what our government is proposing. This has not been successful anywhere in the world. Germany went in hardest for more than two decades, shutting down their perfectly reliable nuclear plants and most of their coal-fired power plants. As a result of this massive error they have been in energy crisis since long before the war in Ukraine. They were purchasing gas from Russia and electricity from France via interconnectors because of their own severe shortfalls of energy. They were also forced to send most of their manufacturing offshore due to the exorbitant cost of electricity, as well as it's intermittent nature. Of course the war in Ukraine made things worse for them and they were forced to reopen more than twenty of their coal-fired power plants.
Going down the renewables track has brought Germany to its knees, and it was once the manufacturing hub of Europe. Developed nations across the Northern Hemisphere agreed to increase nuclear threefold at COP28.
Lol you love the sound of your own voice John. How about letting your guest answer some questions rather than answering them yourself?
24:32 the long term interest is a global story not anything to do with energy or we would be building coal.
Please John, let your guests talk and stop interrupting. It breaks the flow too much.
This convo means nothing
Knowing the price we sell liquid gas
Do you think that LNP is aware of these issues? I see no evidence of this, do you?
The LNP is looking for the best solution for the country! Labour are looking at the Chris Bowen solution! God help us!
We need someone like Elon Musk to defund ISP and everything else Labor put in place - maybe you?
Hang on , Tomago us closing down !?
Their JOB AND FUNCTION is ENERGY not trying to protect to planet from the so called boogeyman.
PREDATORY DELAY STRATEGY 😮, PDS, to say green hydrogen becaue it ignores the ROI, return on investment, of the pipeline infrastructure.
Exactly the same for grid electricity.
PDS, predatory delay strategy, when rooftop PV is ignored and the words RENEWABLES is used and spoken as if equivalent to DISTANT renewables.
Distant renewables need the grid and must include the grid costs.
Rooftop PV and battery electric vehicle are a private matter for private owners.
NOT ON THE GRID is not on the grid.
Millions and millions and millions will be NOT ON THE GRID.
The new technology of rooftop PV and BEVs, battery electric vehicles, will destroy new nuclear technology in Australia, destroy grid cashflow.
Stop saying that private investment is part of grid investment.
The man is a language genius.
Thanks for the clarity.
Sarcasm alert.
I was homeless, did drugs, went into prison, where I got to know God. He changed my life. Now I have a home, a lovely husband and a lovely year old daughter (Zoe), and a stream of income that gets us $37,000 Every 28days. Plus a new identity - a child of God. Hallelujah!!!
Congratulations!! The scriptures clearly states there's going a transference of the riches of the heathen to the righteous.God keep blessings you.
But how were you able to do this?
Any chance you could give me some training on how to be a better person and scammer, glory be to god
Rack off you scamming bots.
Sounds like BS to me
Nice Bloke Aidan Morrison.
But We have to Keep Him Out of ENERGY.
USA has 4kW generation capacity per capita.
Australia has 1kW generation capacity.
USA manufacturing is on a different level.
Australia grid electricity energy is only 1 10th of the total fossil fueled energy.
Australia grid is fragile because it is extremely expensive to over build.
Grid owners investment is $TRILLIONS
Grid owners need cashflow $100sBILLIONS.
Grid owners customers are the cashflow.
Grid owners losing customers to rooftop PV and v2g BEVs big battery free Self-storage 23hrs every day and all night long means the remaining customers pay more to maintain grid owners cashflow.
SHTTSNPANTS fundamental problems for grid owners cashflow.
SHTTSNPANTS fundamental feelings for late adopters low income families.
Grid expansion is $TRILLIONS and decades..
Nuclear electricity is grid electricity.
Electricity generation is dirt cheap.
Grid electricity is extremely expensive. 50cents
Rooftop PV electricity is 2cents kWh electricity at the customer's location.
Nuclear electricity has a fundamental problem to replace fossil fuels, imported petroleum, imported priced natural gas, rooftop PV electricity at the customer's location.
Nuclear electricity has a fundamental economic problem to overcome the $10,000 tax-free savings for high income marginal taxpayers.
Business quarterly $10,000 tax-free savings.
This is happening now.
The silence is deafening.
The grid owners electricity is getting more expensive for the poor and slow adopters.
Not only grid expansion to replace fossil fuels, a 10x problem, but also grid expansion to become a manufacturering nation, a 4x problem.
Grids are 10x generation costs.
Australia's problem is the world's CO2 emissions.
80% of the world's population live in dictatorships and dictators love plutonium and nuclear electricity industries.
John Andersn and Aidan Morrison are lost in distraction.
A better word is deceived
Bowen has got into our psyche, and he stupidly thinks we can do it.