The Battle of Britain (1969) | Full Movie | Douglas Bader | Arno Breker | Winston Churchill

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  • Опубліковано 21 січ 2022
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    The official World War II US government account of Great Britain's stand against the Nazi war machine after the Dunkirk evacuation.
    Director: Frank Capra, Anthony Veiller
    Stars: Douglas Bader, Arno Breker, Winston Churchill, Hermann Göring, Adolf Hitler
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 161

  • @briansmaller7443
    @briansmaller7443 2 роки тому +41

    So sad that we have become a civilization afraid of everything. I read my father's bravery citation and as a sixty year old man I am in awe of my father who was twenty years old.

    • @jeffsmith2022
      @jeffsmith2022 2 роки тому +7

      Be very thankful of the military people that we have in place today in all branches of the services...

    • @johnmilligan6605
      @johnmilligan6605 2 роки тому +4

      We have at last realised the freedom our parents fought for we are not afraid we we just don't want to abuse others as the ruling class did during the days of empire that's not fear it's deciencey

    • @stevenward2644
      @stevenward2644 2 роки тому +3

      Yes and I also with my father's service. He became a Sargent in WW2. Carried a BAR and was responsible for a group of soldiers. From storming pill boxes, Christmas eve charging villages and other endeavors. I had the honor to meet some of those men when I was younger. I was raised by American's finest generation. To speak about my mother, worked on an airforce compass QC inspector, later as a biologists.
      Thanks for this movie.

    • @MarkHarrison733
      @MarkHarrison733 3 місяці тому +1

      @@johnmilligan6605 World War II had nothing to do with "freedom".

  • @johnhay4228
    @johnhay4228 2 роки тому +19

    Spitfire is a iconic plane ,but don't forget the hurricane and the mosquito all played their part , my father was a fireman during the war ,and was involved with the blitz all around London docks ,but no matter what your parents done at the time ,they were all in it together ,we owe them our gratitude ,

    • @Centurion101B3C
      @Centurion101B3C 2 роки тому +6

      Hm, the Mosquito came on the scene a tad later. Marvelous plane though!

    • @FlgOff044038
      @FlgOff044038 2 роки тому +3

      @@Centurion101B3C The Hurricane took out over 60% of the Luftwaffe. The Spit was too often a "Hangar Queen".

    • @julianmeagher9020
      @julianmeagher9020 3 місяці тому

      The Hurricane took out 60% of the kills against the Luftwaffe during the Battle of Britain.
      NOT 60% of the Luftwaffe.

    • @MarkHarrison733
      @MarkHarrison733 3 місяці тому +1

      Yes - see the state of London now ...

    • @julianmeagher9020
      @julianmeagher9020 3 місяці тому

      @@FlgOff044038 your statement would be better and more accurate if made clear that the Hawker Hurricane pilots during the Battle of Britain scored at least 60% of the kills against the Luftwaffe.
      After the end of the Battle of Britain there was much more than 60% left of the Luftwaffe, but it was deployed all over Nazi-dominated territories, including North Africa and in great numbers on the Eastern Front versus the Russians.

  • @terryharris1291
    @terryharris1291 2 роки тому +22

    Sir Keith Park,one of the greatest New Zealanders.Went on to command the defense of Malta and far East air Command
    .During WW1 he fought at Gallipoli and in France.Joined the RAF and became a fighter pilot.

    • @Charlesputnam-bn9zy
      @Charlesputnam-bn9zy 2 роки тому +5

      And Sir Bernard Freyberg whose battle-scarred body had nothing to envy a sieve.
      His division broke the nazi pursuit at Mersa Matruh just before Alamein.
      And Captain Parry of HMS Achilles who helped drive the nazi
      Graf-Spee to suicide.

  • @ieatoutoften872
    @ieatoutoften872 6 місяців тому +2

    This is:
    Battle of Britain (1943)
    part of the collection of Why We Fight movies produced during W.W.2 by Frank Capra.

  • @russellbeaumont310
    @russellbeaumont310 2 роки тому +13

    In Britain today every spoken word must carefully thought out and measured this is a country where no one must be offended otherwise you could lose your livelihood. Freedom of speech is slowly being strangled.

    • @theoccupier1652
      @theoccupier1652 2 роки тому +2

      I Don't and Never will bow to this woke crap ... A Spade is a Spade in my book & if you don't like it Don't Get in My Face

  • @deanseawa
    @deanseawa 2 роки тому +22

    This was made in 1944, not 1969. How could you get it so wrong?

    • @Biffo1262
      @Biffo1262 2 роки тому +6

      Cut and pasted from the feature film of the same title I presume.

    • @mrjockt
      @mrjockt 2 роки тому +2

      No, they didn’t get it wrong, this film was part of a series entitled “Why we fight” and this particular episode was titled “The Battle of Britain”.

    • @EJP286CRSKW
      @EJP286CRSKW 2 роки тому +3

      Indeed but the title here says 1969, confusing it with a two hour colour feature film. Elementary mistake.

  • @petermalloy5360
    @petermalloy5360 2 роки тому +25

    thank god for the poles of 303 sqn ,the highest kill rate ,the kiwi ,canadian ,Belgium and french pilots.Also the wisdom of Sir keith Park .

    • @daneelolivaw602
      @daneelolivaw602 2 роки тому +5

      How about the 2,342 British pilots, did they contribute anything?

    • @PolakInHolland
      @PolakInHolland 2 роки тому +1

      @@daneelolivaw602 Salty much? The Poles and the Czechs arguably made the difference in what was a VERY close run thing, when experienced pilots were at a premium.

    • @daneelolivaw602
      @daneelolivaw602 2 роки тому

      @@PolakInHolland brains much? grow up mate.

    • @suzanneterrey4499
      @suzanneterrey4499 2 роки тому +3

      @@daneelolivaw602 We can't thank the British pilots enough!! But we must also recognize that they had support from other allied countries that had already been conquered and although they were few, they fought ferociously and contibuted.

    • @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684
      @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 2 роки тому +1

      Listen Peter, if you're SO motivated to apportion the correct credit to the correct nationalities, then don't forget to credit the 30% of 303 Sqd's kills that weren't achieved by Poles, but by a single Czechoslovakian Ace Pilot, Josef František.

  • @mrjockt
    @mrjockt 2 роки тому +12

    Everybody seems to forget about the efforts of the Maintenance Units set up to repair downed RAF aircraft, its estimated that for every 10 RAF fighters seriously damaged during the Battle the M.U.’s managed to repair and put back into service 4 of them within a month, helping to supplement the new fighters coming from the factories.

    • @suzanneterrey4499
      @suzanneterrey4499 2 роки тому +3

      The maintenance units are my heroes ! They worked tirelessly to ready those planes for combat daily.

    • @ieatoutoften872
      @ieatoutoften872 10 місяців тому

      @mrjockt
      In Prime Minister Churchill's own words: The difference between victory and defeat was a "narrow margin". So yes, the work of the M.U. was one of the many essential contributions to victory.

  • @LadyAlien318
    @LadyAlien318 2 роки тому +2

    There is no sound n the world that is more magnificent than the ROLLS ROYCE ENGINE from the SPITFIRE 🇬🇧❤️🇬🇧❤️🇬🇧

  • @lawrencemarocco8197
    @lawrencemarocco8197 2 роки тому +24

    The British order of battle was developed to make best use of each airplane's characteristics. The Spitfires with their higher speed and improved high-speed handling engaged and drew off the escorting fighters making them expend their limited fuel in dogfights. This allowed the Hurricanes that were steadier gun platforms to swarm the bombers while the escorts were otherwise occupied.

    • @altoncrane9714
      @altoncrane9714 2 роки тому +1

      attacking German bomber forces.

    • @PolakInHolland
      @PolakInHolland 2 роки тому +1

      This suited the Poles of 303 and 302 just fine. More Germans to kill in a bomber.

    • @ieatoutoften872
      @ieatoutoften872 10 місяців тому

      @lawrencemaracco
      ... if you want to say a squadron of 12 Hawker Hurricanes a swarm when they frequently went against 250 enemy airplanes.

    • @nickyb4310
      @nickyb4310 4 місяці тому

      Didn't pan out like that ....half tithe 109s that were shot down were by hurricanes....the hurricane won the Battle of Britain with help from the spitfire ...a forgotten hero

  • @kirkmorrison6131
    @kirkmorrison6131 2 роки тому +12

    The Hurricanes may have been slightly out dated but they were great interceptors and did a great job and there were many more of them than Spitfires in 1940

    • @Charlesputnam-bn9zy
      @Charlesputnam-bn9zy 2 роки тому +3

      She was not as gorgeous-looking as the Spitfire, but her frame was sturdy enough to accommodate 2 X 40mm anti-panzer guns in Libya.

    • @kirkmorrison6131
      @kirkmorrison6131 2 роки тому +2

      @@Charlesputnam-bn9zy Very true, not elegant but sturdy as could be

    • @julianmeagher9020
      @julianmeagher9020 3 місяці тому

      At the start of the Battle of Britain, Fighter Command had on strength 29 squadrons of Hawker Hurricanes, 19 squadrons of Supermarine Spitfires, 6 squadrons of Bristol Blenheims and 2 squadrons of Boulton Paul Defiants.
      Hawker Hurricanes......... 344
      Supermarine Spitfires.... 226
      One and a half times more Hurricanes than Spitfires.

  • @spockboy
    @spockboy 2 роки тому +2

    This is NOT the 1969 movie Battle of Britain with Robert Shaw, Michael Caine, Lawrence Olivier, Ralph RIchardson etc.

  • @paulmanning8897
    @paulmanning8897 2 роки тому +7

    THIS IS NOT THE 1969 FILM.

  • @Charlesputnam-bn9zy
    @Charlesputnam-bn9zy 2 роки тому +1

    It's a pity that Harry Booth's 1963 ''Blitz On Britain'' (Alistair Cooke's commentary) is so difficult to find. It's the best feature documentary on the
    Battle of Britain.

  • @wojciechkopacz7556
    @wojciechkopacz7556 2 місяці тому +1

    Miłość żąda ofiary. Uczcijmy bohaterów. Gazeta Roland Historia. Polecam

  • @Fargoguy54
    @Fargoguy54 2 роки тому +2

    Such historical experts regarding Churchill and flying a 109! in the responses!!!

  • @82Echo411
    @82Echo411 2 роки тому +13

    Thank God for the RAF Hurricanes as they outnumbered the Spitfires.

    • @williampaz2092
      @williampaz2092 2 роки тому +1

      Hurricanes we’re good, tough fighters. Not as glamorous or graceful as a Spitfire. Think of the Spitfire as a graceful ballerina and the Hurricane as a strong country-girl. Interestingly, Douglas Bader thought the Hurricane was the better fighter.

  • @shamfilmpresents6309
    @shamfilmpresents6309 2 роки тому

    Interesting history...

  • @shaunmarsh7930
    @shaunmarsh7930 2 роки тому +5

    At 23:43 the German sentry post with the MG34 is at la Corbiere on the S/w point of Jersey in the Channel Islands. At 23:45 German sentry by a Flack38? at Clearance battery Fort George Sint Peter Pot on the east cost of Guernsey in the Channel Islands. The Islands from left to right are Herm Jethou and Sark. The Channel Islands were occupied by the Germans from 30th June 1940 to the 9th May 1945.

  • @jackrabbit5047
    @jackrabbit5047 2 роки тому +13

    Thank God for the Spitfire and the brave men who flew them!

    • @kcrnz
      @kcrnz 2 роки тому +3

      And the Polish Pilots and others who flew Hurricanes.

    • @terryharris1291
      @terryharris1291 2 роки тому +1

      Plus the great leaders that were in command of these Men ,like Sir Keith Park,one of the greatest New Zealanders.Went on to command the defense of Malta and far East air Command
      .During WW1 he fought at Gallipoli and in France.Joined the RAF and became a fighter pilot.

    • @nickyb4310
      @nickyb4310 4 місяці тому

      The hurricane shot down more

    • @MarkHarrison733
      @MarkHarrison733 3 місяці тому

      @@kcrnz Poland had prevented the UK and France from allying with the USSR in mid-August 1939.

  • @MichaelKingsfordGray
    @MichaelKingsfordGray 2 роки тому +3

    Of course, the *whole* victory relied on Bletchley Park.
    Alan Turing won the war, but this was classified when the film was made.

    • @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684
      @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 2 роки тому +2

      Alan Turing was part of a team..... by himself he would have achieved little. Elevated by the current lefty establishment to superstardom by way of his sexual preference, and the awful way he was treated.

    • @MichaelKingsfordGray
      @MichaelKingsfordGray 2 роки тому

      @@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 Anonymous coward.

    • @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684
      @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 3 місяці тому

      @@MichaelKingsfordGray What's in a name? Prove my assertion wrong. THAT is why you've deflected from responding with reason. Because what I've said is CORRECT "Michael" !!!

    • @MarkHarrison733
      @MarkHarrison733 3 місяці тому +1

      @@MichaelKingsfordGray Bletchley Park's role was massively overstated, as it was officially confirmed in 2020.

  • @grahamthebaronhesketh.
    @grahamthebaronhesketh. 10 місяців тому

    I have been to Brighton!!

  • @reginabillotti
    @reginabillotti 2 роки тому +4

    "The Battle of Britain (1969) | Full Movie |"
    Why the fake title? The 1969 movie was something different.

  • @phillipcrossley7235
    @phillipcrossley7235 2 роки тому

    Why do all your films have the epileptic stills on the side?can't actually watch the film for trying to figure out wtf is wrong with it

  • @stephenhardy312
    @stephenhardy312 9 місяців тому

    This film id listed as the 1979 movie The Battle of Britain. This is not what we get when we play it. A good documentary though.

  • @darkknight1340
    @darkknight1340 2 роки тому +2

    Thankfully the BF 109 E was not equipped with provision for drop tanks had they had that capability,they could have tipped the balance In favour of the luftwaffe.

    • @darkknight1340
      @darkknight1340 2 роки тому

      @Bobb Grimley It can be spelled both ways,but it looks better with two p's

    • @tobytaylor2154
      @tobytaylor2154 2 роки тому +1

      That wouldn't of made a difference, you drop the tank before going into action. The distances involved were to small to make a difference, plus, any tactican knows attack them over the channel to force them to drop their tanks.

    • @darkknight1340
      @darkknight1340 2 роки тому +1

      @Bobb Grimley Do you get out often?.

  • @conceptalfa
    @conceptalfa 2 роки тому

    👍 👍 👍!!!

  • @manualgrech8637
    @manualgrech8637 2 роки тому +3

    I think each country was strong because the people were not divided like they are now and I blame leftism for the source of that division

    • @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684
      @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 2 роки тому +1

      Divide and rule, the methodolgy of the globalist "elites".... it's better known as "identity politics".... highlighting and aggravating each and every difference between populations, race, sexual orientation, religion, setting everyone at one another's throats, while those at the top laugh and piss over all of us.

    • @jbjoeychic
      @jbjoeychic Рік тому

      Manuel,
      Absolutely, you are correct.
      Leftism is the mortal enemy of all Liberty and freedom Loving countries.
      It is a dangerous ideology that undermines a nations moral compass by removing Christianity and Judaism from public discourse by ridicule and censorship.
      Eventually the nation devolves into a type of deviant Sodom and Gomorah society leading to anarchy and worse. Leftism equals danger.

    • @MarkHarrison733
      @MarkHarrison733 3 місяці тому

      @@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 Churchill's legacy. See the ECHR he created.

  • @debeeriz
    @debeeriz 2 роки тому +10

    cross out adolf hitler and insert vladamir puitin

  • @stucar7677
    @stucar7677 2 роки тому +2

    Bloody hell ! 10 to 1 🤣🤣 that made the luftwaffe nearly 7000 planes

  • @sgtmajvimy
    @sgtmajvimy 9 місяців тому

    No it’s not …

  • @TesseRact7228
    @TesseRact7228 2 роки тому +2

    What has happened to the spirit of the English as displayed in this Battle? It seems to have dissipated. England is now being overrun by "the Wokes", Islamists -- all and sundry...

    • @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684
      @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 4 місяці тому

      Just Britain?

    • @TesseRact7228
      @TesseRact7228 4 місяці тому

      @@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684
      No, but the subject matter was about BRITAIN...

    • @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684
      @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 4 місяці тому

      @@TesseRact7228 Undoubtedly... I'm just used to the "attitude adjusters" in comments sections who continue to target Britain because we told the EU where to go in 2016... not that we've really left the European Branch of the burgeoning WEF one world government.

    • @TesseRact7228
      @TesseRact7228 4 місяці тому

      @@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684
      So, who is imposing the "boat-immigrants" on the UK (Britain?)? The EU? The WEF?

    • @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684
      @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 4 місяці тому

      @@TesseRact7228 All tentacles of the same organisation. Remember that up until the last 50-60 years that governments were the supreme power in their own nations. As global corporations have grown exponentially and absorbed more and more individual companies they have in the last 20-30 years been able to collectively wield more financial power than many national governments.
      ALL political parties are dependent on "party funds", now they are less and less bothered about where those funds come from. Furtive corporate funding of all mainstream political parties in the west, and the old adage of "he who pays the piper calls the tune" mean that what were previously bi & even tri partisan political governmental establishments have become "fungally infected" with globalist corporate financial corruption, and now no longer vie for the votes of their electorates but instead do the bidding which will bring in the highest amounts of "largesse" from their corporate backers.
      Hence the correct perception that over the last 10-20 years, formerly democratic governments comprised of multiple parties who each had their own income sources (left wing by members party subscriptions and socially minded business people) were set against right wing parties who already received the majority of their funding from big business, have over the last few decades transformed into parties where ever declining party memebr's subscriptions have been replaced by big business funding of ALL sides of the political spectrum.
      When their is no genuine opposition between the major parties (because they're all funded by the same corporations), then what were formerly democracies have by corporate fungal infestation transmuted into dictatorships in all but name. Hence why the seemingly inane policies pushed by ALL major parties now have hardly ANY support from voters with more than 5 functioning brain cells. Government's no longer plan for the sakes of their nations, but now make policy to reinforce the corporate takeover of democracy.

  • @MarkHarrison733
    @MarkHarrison733 3 місяці тому +1

    This is why Britain is not British.

    • @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684
      @walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 27 днів тому

      God you get EVERYWHERE with your nonsense, Don't you?

    • @MarkHarrison733
      @MarkHarrison733 27 днів тому +1

      @@walterkronkitesleftshoe6684 How do you feel about an Hamas-supporting government being elected on 4 July?

  • @Psychiatrick
    @Psychiatrick 2 роки тому +2

    When Churchill flashed the "V" sign, it wasn't "V" for victory it was "V" for Vatican!

    • @1Daphdong
      @1Daphdong 2 роки тому +1

      Britain was Protestant, and had turned protestant a few hundred years previously.

    • @Psychiatrick
      @Psychiatrick 2 роки тому

      @@1Daphdong ALL "re-legions" fall under the toe of pope (inc) who is CEO of the Cana'anite-Hittite Vatican Curia council of Hittites. If you read "King John's Concession to Pope INNOCENT III" of 1213 you will see King John gave England and Ireland, as well its heirs and successors, to pope (inc) for being bad. At 1213 the laws common to the Heptarchy (common law) yielded to the constitution written in Heaven via the Douay-RhiemJob Vulgergate Bybull. King John was known as "King John Lackland" for it owned no land. Just how it could give away something witch was not its to begin with is beyond comprehension. Nonetheless, if you look up "U. S. Presidents related to King John" you will find ALL "Mr" Presidents are Vatican appointees as King John obeyed its master: pope (inc). In a nutshell!

    • @k1200ltse
      @k1200ltse 2 роки тому +3

      Complete rubbish. The "V" sign had 2 meanings. The first was for Victory. The other is much older - and somewhat apocryphal - supposedly comes from Englush arches showing the French they still had the capability to draw their bows.
      Churchill, while nominally Church of England was an Agnostic but expressed a preference for Protestantism over Roman Catholicism because he felt it was a step nearer reason & would therefore not have been referring the the Vatican. Not only that, at the time it was thought that the Pope, Pius XII had blessed the Italian airmen of the Regia Aeronautica who were to bomb the UK as part of the Battle of Britain. Whilst this almost certainly didn't happen, given the sentiment at the time towards the Italians Churchill would not be referring to anything Italian - or perceived to be Italian - in the gesture.
      Someone else mentioned King John & his dealings with the Vatican. When Henry VIII broke with Rome all such deals were nullified & even now there are still certain areas were Roman Catholics are not allowed to be included, mainly in the order of accession to the Throne, as they cannot be head of the Church of England. As an anecdotal aside, when my father was first in the Army he told me that on Sunday Church Parade the order was called " All Roman Catholics, Jews & Other Non Christians Fall Out".
      To claim the "V" sign was for anything but Victory is foolish or ignorance at best. Ask anyone who was alive & old enough to have been there. Or try the Imperial War Museum. You know, people who know the truth of the gesture.

    • @Psychiatrick
      @Psychiatrick 2 роки тому

      @@k1200ltse Complete rubbish. The "V" sign had 2 meanings. The first is for Vatican. The other is much older - and somewhat apocryphal - represents one of Satan's number: "5" as in pentagram.
      Churchill, while nominally Church of England, was a Druid but expressed a preference to work for Vatican curia's council of Hittites. Protestantism is Roman Catholicism but rejects pope (inc) as God. At 1213 King John Lackland, "Lackland" as it owned no land, somehow managed to give England and Ireland to pope inc (see "King John" by Shakespeare) because he felt it was a step nearer reason & would therefore not have been referring the the Vatican. BUTT, pope (inc) is the C. E. O. of Vatican curia. Not only that, at the time it was thought that the Pope, Pius XII had blessed Nazi Germany by signing on to the Reich Concordat, July 20, 1933. Whilst this almost certainly did happen, given the sentiment of England, at the time, towards the Vatican, Churchill would not be referring to anything Italian - or perceived to be Italian - in the gesture but most certainly he was referring to Vatican.
      Someone else mentioned King John & his dealings with the Vatican. When Henry VIII pretended to break relations with Rome the 1213 deal prevailed. This is why ALL Kings, Queens and U. S. presidents bow down to pope (inc). Since 1603 the order of accession to the Throne has flown from the Ruler of the Tribe of Judah, and cannot be head of the Church of England as the church of England is a Temple of Dagon controlled by pope (inc).
      As an anecdotal aside, when my father was first in the Air Force he told me the Clerics are rampant in the military. He also said there is no such "thing" as a "Jew" for all Tribes are set out in Genesis.
      To deny the "V" sign was for anything but Vatican is foolish or ignorance at best. Ask any cleric.

    • @stevelindstedt8858
      @stevelindstedt8858 2 роки тому +4

      Pat Rick, you're full of crap.

  • @Biffo1262
    @Biffo1262 2 роки тому +4

    Hopeless inaccurate propaganda made for public consumption.

    • @janicebrowningaquino792
      @janicebrowningaquino792 2 роки тому +1

      Oh phoo!

    • @suzanneterrey4499
      @suzanneterrey4499 2 роки тому +5

      Well pal, that's about all the people had! They were hungry, scared, homeless, in many cases, and working their tails off. The truth of their dire situation wouldn't have helped them sustain their energy and drive. So if you lost your family and were homeless, would you want to hear you were losing? I believe, the propaganda helped them through it, along with their pride and culture.

    • @Biffo1262
      @Biffo1262 Рік тому

      @@suzanneterrey4499 I did lose family in WW2 in Burma. I was brought up on the stories. I am 73 years of age and rationing and bombsites and yes unexploded bombs were still everyday occurrences as a young child. Those not fighting 'might' have been sucked in by propaganda but those in uniform weren't. I worked with many ex servicemen from WW2 and they treated propaganda as good a laugh. One thing I can tell you, as they told me, that losing the war was never considered a real possibility by the average person. Invading the British Isles is a logistics nightmare when your navy controls the channel and the air force, though outnumbered, have the massive advantage of fighting above their own territory.

    • @MarkHarrison733
      @MarkHarrison733 3 місяці тому

      @@Biffo1262 Hitler never intended to attempt an invasion of the UK.

    • @colby25
      @colby25 2 місяці тому

      What did you expect during a war. It was all about raising the spirit to fight on and resist. Only got to look at putins state funded propaganda today to see how potent it can be. Not just in his own country. Anyways this is made for american consumption as they were well involved as well by the time this was released..