Songwriting Pet Peeves
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- Опубліковано 20 лют 2024
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Songwriting doesn't have to be a mystical artform. There are skills and principles you can learn to become a great songwriter. There are also mistakes to to avoid. In this video I cover 7 of those common mistakes (I've made all of 'em).
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Been writing a song a week for probably over 5 years. Started putting them up about 3 years ago on YT. Great way to stretch yourself.
Pet peeves (annoyances)
#1 1:26 - Disclamers before showing the song
#2 2:13 - Writing about songwriting
#3 2:44 - Absence of any sort of hook
#4 3:49 - Using unnatural or fancy language
#5 4:37 - Inconsistency of meter (number of syllables)
#6 5:34 - Forcing too much rhyming
#7 6:38 - Focusing on quality without also simultaneously focusing on quantity
Spot on, especially the last part, I write lots of little verses whenever something clever comes to mind and when I eventually record something, I pull bits and pieces from all those brainstorming sessions. The topics are usually similar enough to meld together in one track, but most importantly it's a useful catalyst for the writers block.
Good stuff. Re. writing about songwriting,- the middle eight of XTC's No Language In Our Lungs is fun. It ends with "I would have made this instrumental but the words got in the way".
I'm glad you presented these as "pet peeves" and not as "rules." We all know there are no rules--only conventions--and we should note that convention is often ignored, sometimes with spectacularly successful results. Good stuff from Joe, as always.
"25 or 6 to 4" is the only song about writing a song that should be allowed :)
100% agreed.
"25 or 6 to 4" is fantastic. I'd also add "Deacon Blues" by Steely Dan - "I cried when I wrote this song; sue me if I play too long". It sounds cheesy as I'm typing it but it really works in the song for some reason.
“I’m singing this borrowed tune I took from the Rolling Stones. Alone in this empty room. Too wasted to write my own.” (Neil Young, "Borrowed Tune")
You can write about songwriting. You just have to have something to say that anybody cares about.
“Your Song” by Elton John is an excellent song about writing a song.
Maybe also the Beatles' "Nowhere Man", about writing block
Honestly, the best 2nd step after the video is for everyone to go read Jeff Tweedy's "How To Write One Song".
On the last point, I started doing open mics late last year. I closed with an original I hadn't quite figured out how to translate to acoustic. But I loved the song and it's sentiment dearly and gave a brief intro to the inspiration of it and went for it. When I was leaving, one dude came up and said he was touched by the song. That was two months ago, and I'll never forget it.
With some slight modifications on a couple of suggestions, I agree with your observations and advice. Guitar has always been my instrument. I started playing when I was 17 years old; I am now 77. The list of songs I've written is fairly small (20-25). I would say that 70% were created between ages 20-40. For me, my creative process begins first with constructing what I think are interesting and captivating melodies on the guitar. Once I've worked out the melody, I begin creating lyrics. There is almost always an emotive vibe emanating from the melodies I create, which often influences the theme and words of the song. In my opinion, the best songs I've written come from real personal experiences.
An enjoyable video. !Another one is when you’re favorite backing track is done before the song idea is finalized. Studio one is inspiring.
2:18 that's when skating and a little softshoe come into play. You'll sure get the listeners attention alright!
You had me in stitches! Awesome video.
My biggest pet peeve that I do in songwriting: Not taking the time to figure out how it should sound, and then having to waste 90% of an opportunity to record vocals just testing different things to figure it out, and then wearing myself out and not actually recording the vocals the first chance I get as a result.
My biggest pet peeve others do: Double negatives. “I can’t get no peace of mind,” why would you be trying to get rid of your peace of mind? “Ain’t no mountain high enough, ain’t no valley low enough, ain’t no river wide enough to keep me from getting to you, babe,” so there are definitively mountains high enough, valleys low enough, and rivers wide enough to keep the two characters apart… Double negatives are like the cigarettes of songwriting to me. They don’t make you cooler, and just because everyone else uses them doesn’t mean you should.
The disclaimer thing is so huge. Don’t get up there and set the expectation with people that you’re about to play like crap. I wish I was told that or realized it sooner…
Great stuff, Joe!
#1 - Oh yes I hear this all the time during open mics. Doesn't even have to be an original. I have to watch myself so I don't when I'm still don't have a song absolutely locked in.
#3 This is a problem for any performer. Especially if you play solo. It's too easy to have all of the songs sound the same. People sometimes lose sight of the fact that arrangements count too (it's not just the song).
Thanks Joe - love these videos.
Informative and entertaining! Joe for the win!
4:38 #5 just made my day 😂😂😂 keep up the great content Joe 👍
All great points!
Praise Applause and Hear Here ! Joe thank you !
That was class and spot on .
All great points and I agree with them all. #4 is in ALOT of Irish Country music and really grinds my gears
Loving the songwriting content. 👍🙏😎
Number 5 & 6 example busted out laughing😭🤣 P.S appreciate all the wisdom shared in these videos.
On a serious note about number seven: it is so true!! Even if you dont sit and intentionally want to make a song, coming with random loops and messing around with presets helps detatch you for thining everything you make needs to be peecious. In fact, i just all my song seeds equally even is some are garbage. Because the garbage can used as breakdown or weird intro. Or it isnt garbage, it just needed a following "B" section to its lonely little "A" section.
I keep on praising the Add Notes feature in Studio One, because its broken me out of my small amount of ideas and made me grow in a more free and creative way
So many great tips here! Songwriting is an art as much as it is a craft. Study the bones of your favorite songs. It helps.
I laughed so much through this one! Also very helpful... but thanks for the laughs. I really want to hear a complete rendition of your 'Song About a Song About a Song' though.
It is VERY long.
😄@@HomeStudioCorner
Good stuff, I love these! 😂 About #4 - I've heard this argument before from one singer-songwriter. I'm sure there's something for me to learn here, but I disagree with this for the most part. Opeth would not feel the same if Åkerfeldt didn't go for those alien, mystifying word choices that he does in lyrics. IMO they are just in the right spots, they hit their marks, and electrify the message he's trying to get across. And judging from interviews and on-stage speaks, he doesn't seem to talk like that, he's very down-to-earth. Yeah, sometimes you have to look up what a word means, but what's exactly wrong with that?
And for the record, I like plain lyrics too. I love it when a lyricist knows how to vary between literate word choices and plain everyday statements within the same song. I'm definitely not saying it always has to get weird.
Great video.
Loved it
#5 example was totally the opposite of #3. What a catchy hook!
Thank you!
First of all I want to say I love the video very good and one of my favorite Parts was writing something the way you speak not using words that are not normally used great stuff I've been writing for years I've got several albums on Spotify on iTunes and looking back I can see where I improved over the years but I always looked up to people who had done great works before me before me I can also remember back with my first album some of my songs for over 7 minutes long so funny trying to cram too many words in wanting such a good idea I remember taking my first album Into My A&R guy Universal well I need this to say they weren't going to use any of my early songs use any of my early songs any of my early songs great video Joe❤
I agree on most of your points. However, you can absolutely write about anything, including songwriting. The trick is you need to disguise it. One of the hardest things for me is coming up with ideas of what to write about. You would be surprised how you could make the lamest thing sound interesting. You just need to dress it up. Quite frankly, it's fun. When people listen to those songs, they come up with all ideas of what it's about, and you're just laughing in the back of your mind.
Awkward or forced lines are a show stopper for me. "My father he did say" is gold. Definitely going to use that one!
Unless a song about Yoda it is. 🤷🏻♂️😉
The hook is what you catch the listener with… amen to #4! I don’t like to hear a performer explain what the next song is about… the song should do that on its own.
Great list. I'd also add rhyming a word with itself - that always bugs me when I hear it. Thanks, Joe!
Songs about writing a song - completely agree.
Thanks for this! I hate long boring intros where nothing happens, just plodding verse chords twice through. Another is predictable rhymes where you can tell they came up with them first then force in the preceding words. But I love near-rhymes. Even better, break rhyme once in a while. And don't get me started on today's "no written endings", just where the track abruptly stops because it was all just copy/paste/copy/paste.
I like the songs you write, some of my songs might take a year or two to write, sometimes I wait for the Holy Spirit to move me. These songs are usually written and finished in a week or two.
Mine is not so much a “pet peeve” as a “gremlin.”
There’s a Zen Buddhist parable about a man who uses a raft to cross a river, and then is so grateful for the raft that he straps it to his back and carries it everywhere he goes. The inspiration for a song (or any work of art) is like that. Once you’ve been inspired, you have to let the specifics of the inspiration go. Maybe the thing that inspired you happened in New York, but if Chicago works better in the song, that’s what you use. Don’t be a slave to the idea that got you started. You’re writing a song, not a history.
The most important aspect of songwriting is story.
You didn't mention using clichés. One of my pet peeves is songs that are just a string of phrases we've all heard before.
I notice this a lot for those who write Christian songs (CCM) and/or worship music. It's like the songwriter has a chord progression (often also cliché ) and then just plagiarizes and strings together these Christian clichés in a different order than we've heard them before.
I think the best analogy for #7 is physical skill.
For example, playing basketball. The more shots you take, the better you will get at taking shots. No one would spend an hour getting ready to go to the court, then spend another hour at the court lining up the shot, then take one shot, then go home and not go back for a month. No one would do that and expect to get better.
Your brain is a muscle, and it has its own form of muscle memory. The more you write songs, the better your brain will get at the skills related to writing songs.
Sometimes I deliberately add more syllables to the last verse to add tension but otherwise yes, insightful as usual.
Touring bands writing about being on the road- yawn. A song that is all hook, or the hook is repeated a thousand times. The third verse curse- well the first two were cool but I ran out of ideas.
Kinda similar to point 2 (or maybe part of it), I don't like songs that reference themselves. It takes me out of the song. (Example: "This song is/is not about you" or "if you don't like this song..."). I hate it. Don't talk about the song currently happening in the song please (and in the second example, please don't get defensive about the song before it's even over. I may not have even decided if I liked the song before then).
Also, definitely agree on not trying to force vocabulary in most situations. Some people can pull off uncommon terminology in music, but sometimes describing a scene in simpler words will make it resonate more.
Yeah it's like breaking the 4th wall, but in a song instead of a movie. Just feels weird.
Let me add one of my own pet peeves: when the same word appears in different parts of the song - I'm not talking about repeated choruses, but some songwriters can't seem to think of multiple words that mean the same thing. Get a thesaurus, guys!
that's a really small keyboard, i'm a fan.
Ha! #4, the "Yoda phrase"! Thats my number one.
YODA PHRASE! Right you are.
Joe we need you to go and represent Studio One at the "Help Me Devvon" podcast bro please! 🙏🏻
Peeve #2 is interesting. I happen to agree with you -- songs about songs are odious! But in poetry, it's just the opposite -- at least half the work of poets of the last 50-60 years or more is about writing poetry. I shit you not. This is probably not only acceptable but admired because virtually all of the people who read poetry these days are other poets, which is very different from what happens with music lyrics.
Top of the evening to you Mr. Gilder. My name is Cleon, just wondering if there is any possible way I can get on a one on one call with you for just a couple basic questions dealing with the DAW and audio interface. Thanks in advanced, enjoy your day YEAH!
Joe please tell me which microphone did you use in this video...I just love the sound. Please respond. Thank you 😊
Earthworks Sonos. But to be fair people ask this question no matter what mic I use. Lesson: it’s my voice/processing they like more than the mic itself.
bro is the ultimate yapper
all my tunes end up having the Bang a Gong riff in them!
From “This much is True”: “Why do I find it hard to write the next line?” Ugh!
Yes! #5 Count your syllables people!
What about Waiting on the Song by Dan Auerbach??
You could change “My father he did say” to “I heard my father say” boom rhyme saved
Man, the "Apologizing for Existing Guy". Yep. That's me, man. I wish it wasn't, but it is. Sorry about that, by the way. 😅
I struggle with not loading up on disclaimers
number 3 is modern music
As always, you're full of wisdom and advice. However, not sure I agree on the first one, aka disclaimers. True, if you're there to perform, and if it's not for educational purposes and instead for the song itself, no disclaimers. On the other hand, if you're there more as a teacher or on a platform that is geared toward those on your own level of expertise, it should be okay to explain things about the song's origin, your feelings about the song, and even whether or not you feel it's one of your best, including your concerns of being able to present it exactly as you want. Sort of a case by case basis. Not to mention, all songwriters and musicians should remember how it was when they first started out, including times when they weren't all that confident; hence, should cut some slack for those who aren't yet up at the same levels. Meanwhile, if I misunderstood you, I apologize.
Oh wait. I disagree about all songs should have a "hook". Nope. Music is like Art is like Poetry is like Lit... everything goes. And I love that fact. Because if every song or piece of music I listened to had a hook, and was written so as to be remembered and singable, I'd soon lose interest. Again, case by case. But the more variety the better, for me. Again, if I misunderstood you, I apologize.
Apart from that, I bow to your knowledge because you are so far ahead of me and will always be... I don't have the years remaining to catch up. Alas! But happy for you. Truly.
Giving a story behind the song is wonderful. Making everyone uncomfortable by voicing your own insecurities is not.
Anything memorable is a hook to me. So if you have a song with a nice, memorable melody in the chorus, I would call that a hook.
Repeating words over and over again. It is a common trope in pop music but it grinds my gears these days. They run out of words to fill a verse so just repeat the second to last phrase twice in an attempt to create a hook, it is embarrassing. A more common extension of this is adding in 'whoos' or 'yeah' in the place of words. It can be done, but is often times the mark of a lazy songwriter.
Number four is me 😔
Dottie Rambo was a good song writer
#5 Disagree. Bruce would too, I think.
Any lazy 6 4 1 5 four chord song
"so i wrote this song for you" , "i wrote it in the words of this song" , etc
YUCK
disclaimers aren't cool unless they are the song. i couldn't agree more. shut up and play the hits!
2:49 now my stomach hurts :D
😂
I just have to say, Joe's phrasing just talking sounds a lot like David Draiman. Ya I notice strange things so what
I’ll take it. Was working out to Disturbed recently. 🤘
#4 is a tough one cause If I wrote like I speak, it would so unpoetic. However you DID touch on a pet peeve of mine IN the line... I HATE lyrics with "My momma told me..." or "Daddy said..." OMG. I don't a flying F what your daddy or mama told you... and no one else does either. That lyrical trope needs to go the death of rhyming fire and desire. Just STOP it.
I definitely have a song with "Mama told me" in it. I love it. 😂
Sorry. Just my opinion!
You probably just trolled someone into trying to incorporate every one of these into a single song…I hope!
And it will be a smash hit, of course.
#6. Eminem
😊
I hate rhymes for the sake of rhymes, go and listen to Bridge Over Troubled Water, how many rhymes do you hear? Yeah, stop it.
First
Some of my biggest peeves:
-Political songs: please just join an advocacy group & start a newsletter instead
-Country songs using black slang from 7 yrs ago: you owe reparations, my dude (its always a dude)
-Loud electric guitars = bummer lyrics: loud rock can also be a celebration, y'all.
-Guys older than 35 still writing trite "cut yourself" songs for teens: no wonder your ex-girlfriend hates you, bud... you're tiresome & overly-dramatic.
-Kid Rock: E) all of the above
If you don't like the politics of someone's song, don't listen to them. Songwriters are the bards, troubadours and poets of our age, and dealing with the issues we face as a society is not just legitimate, it's necessary. I'd also note that in modern America (you are clearly an American), a vast series of issues has been made taboo by writing them off as "politics" precisely so we don't question them, or even talk about them. "Politics" is no less than how power is divvied up and applied among the members of society, and boy is it convenient to convince one sector or another to just up and abandon their power, so others may wield it.
@@poissonpuerile8897 i'm not trying to shut anyone up. regardless of the message itself, i'm saying there's 8000 different mediums better suited to convey your political message than a 3:30 pop song, and in the year 2024, we all have direct access to many of them.
Also, lets ease up on the "poets & bards" high horse stuff. Half the time "political songs" are made by someone blatantly trying to pander content on the backside of someone's grief or made up outrage. The rest are like that guy doing house remixes with MLK speeches laced over the top... like, its not helping the discourse.
To be fair, you can’t know if it’s helping the discourse or not.
@@HomeStudioCorner To be even more fair, the discourse is already woefully bad when its just discourse. Setting it to a backbeat doesn't make it any less tedious & exhausting. I mean, music is my escape from all that, y'know? The last thing I wanna be thinking about when I listen to your music is "Hey how does this person vote?"
Smoke on the Water has got to be the most famous song about the writing of said song. Or rather the circumstances around the recording of the album in Switzerland. Does that count!