Can a Jazz Bass Really Sound Like a P Bass?
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- In the never-ending Jazz Bass vs P Bass debate, many people on the J-side of things like to point out that a "J Bass can sound like a P Bass, but a P Bass can never sound like a J Bass." This got us thinking: Can it really?
Undoubtedly, the Jazz Bass is the more versatile of the two tonally speaking, but how close can it really get to the P Bass sound?
In today's episode of The Stringjoy Show, our resident bass expert Philip Conrad puts this theory to the test.
Philip Conrad is an Atlanta-based bassist and video contributor at Stringjoy. Check out his channel at @philipconradmusic
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Where do you stand in The Great Jazz Bass vs P Bass Debate?
Firm J-bass proponent, but not for tone reasons.
A jazz bass is shaped in a way that balances better while standing, given default strap button placement. If you play primarily sitting down, then this is not much of a factor, but if you're a stickler about standing balance, then this is important.
The difference in neck profile shapes matters as well, but I feel like that's more of a preference thing than balance is. For balance, one instrument can be objectively more balanced than another, and the preference factor is solely about "How much does balance MATTER to you?", and if it doesn't matter much for you, then you can just ignore it. However, no neck profile is objectively better for 100% of all players than another neck profile.
I stay with Scott Devine's take on this: you just can't compare two basses that sound and FEEL completely different from each other specially neck wise. The p bass has a single tone that makes so much and the jazz bass has options for tone shaping with the 3 vols.
The answer is no
Totally Jazz for me
There's just something about the five-string jazz bass that does it for me.
Good vid! Two Jazz tricks:
1. For a beefier-feeling neck, if you have threaded or multi-groove saddles, widen the string spacing from the standard 19mm to 21mm. Some 70s/80s Jazz basses came with this spacing if I'm not mistaken.
2. For a fat sounding neck pickup sound, put the tone near zero and roll the neck volume down a little. Add a little bridge to taste if desired. The magic of passive electronics will give you a massive fat dub-like tone.
Yes. Rolling off the bridge pickup just a tad on a Jazz bass is the mid-range bump trick (also works with both pickups on if you want to cancel out a bit of the scoop). But this certainly is the extra bit to get even closer to the P sound.
The takeaway from all this is you can get a J to sound pretty close to a P, but a P will never be able to approximate the sound of a J.
I don't understand your first tip.
Can you explain to me precisely please ? 🙏 thanks
I have found that a jazz can get closer to the sound of a p than a p can get to a jazz , both have their pros and cons and I love them both
PJ is my preferred configuration. Picking one over the other, it would be Jazz. I like the variety of tones that I get out of a Jazz over the Precision. You can't go wrong with either. I'm also a huge fan of the MusicMan...
I agree. I've got a couple PJ's and they're my go to these days. You can get a lot of variation out of them. I'm trying a stet of LaBella's on one of them right now. I love LaBella's on my P but wasn't sure about on a P/J. I dig it so far but I'm in the honeymoon phase haha.
For me it's worst combination, PJ sound is one of the worst imo (except those active reversed P on Spector basses).
It was close but the J-Bass still had that mid-scoop happening. The P-Bass did exactly what it was designed to do- sit in the mix and provide the fundamental. That J-Bass sounded great, but nothing records quite like a P-bass.
Always love these videos from Philip!
Glad you mentioned the PJ configuration. I just picked up a yamaha bbp4 and absolutely love it with dadarrio chrome flats. I mostly keep the p on full and blend in varying amounts of j, though i can go the other direction if the song calls for it. The craftsmanship on the bass is quite remarkable and the neck plays like butter
When I made my P bass into a PJ, my biggest mistake was to not understand the importance of positioning for the J pickup. Slap bang in the middle between the bridge plate and scratchplate looked aesthetically pleasing but doesn't sound as good as having it (by its own width) closer to the P pickup. Pickup placement is key to all bass tone and Leo Fender knew what he was doing.
Lee Sklar put an unwired toggle switch n his original Fender P that he’d click on when an engineer or producer asked for a different sound. Lee fooled them for decades with that trick and did it all on his P bass until he retired it. 😆🎸
Thanks for showing the frequency graphs, very interesting. And good video
I always tell people, a Jazz bass neck pickup on its own is almost identical in sound to a P bass, and this video proved it. I would like to see a blind test to see what people really hear, vs what they THINK they hear based on what’s on the screen.
I had my eyes closed when the playing started. Identified the first P Bass excerpt within one or two notes. If playing on the E string below G I can identify instantly. But the neck pickup of a J does get close. To 99% of listeners, it probably would make no difference. To me I can identify the difference, but who cares. Lol good either way
P bass for me 100%. Offset jazz bass looks better tho.
I have a fender blacktop jazz, which is a jazz body with 2 pbass pickups. Best of both worlds for me.
I will say I do think they both have their place, and are both amazing, but for me a pbass is THE bass sound.
I play Jazz basses but I love both. I have an Industrial Radio J4 midi Jazz Bass, A 73 Jazz and a parts 32" Jazz. Both P & J basses sit well in a mix, Leo Fender was a genius.
you have a great way of imparting your knowledge, kudos to you
I could play my Squier 70s Jazz bass for the rest of my life and be happy. I've had it for almost 10 years and it's the only guitar I have that I've never modified, it doesn't need it. Just needed to be set up professionally and it was good to go. I love the way the Jazz bass sounds, and "close enough" is good enough for me when it comes to gear because once you get everything in the mix, no one is going to know or care. 😎👉👉
Had one of the Indo Squier 70s now for 4 years and feel exactly the same
This is a valuable comparison video. Well done.
I'm an old manufacturing luthier with fifty years experience.
I'd say that looking at the jazz bass here that it would play better with a neck shim to allow the bridge saddles to be raised for the same action. This would give a bit more punch and make the saddle screws dissappear for safer / easier palm damping.
Good advice I agree 👍
Very good descriptive comparison. I own both and they definitely each have their own distinct characteristics. Also own a 2000 Hot Rod P which is a P/J configuration. Glad you mentioned that at the end. Kudos
Well done! I’ve discovered a Dingwall NG modern sound. Talk about articulation… wow.
Love to hear your thoughts.
One thing to try if you get down to modifying things is wiring the jazz bass pickups in series. Normally in J-bass they are in parallel and the two coils that form the P-bass pickup are in series. The reasoning is that wiring the J-bass pickups in series they work together more like the P-bass pickup. The huge difference is ofcource that the coils both sense all strings and one of them is pretty close to the bridge. The series/parallel switching can be done with a push-pull pot. On my cheap J-bass style Tokai, putting the pickups in series seems to get me a bit more P-bass like thump... It's hard to describe... and a healthy volume boost. The downside in the series-mode is that teh both pickups are just on... You cant turn down just one. One of the volumes will work as "master volume" and the other is bypassed altogether. But then you can push the pot to switch it back to parallel and get all your old school J-bass options.
You can still hear that unmistakable midrange presence that makes Jazz Bass what it is..
Yep, I hear the quack. Reminds me of John Paul Jones's J bass on Custard Pie
I've put Fralin Split Jazz Bass pickups, added some foam under the strings, neck pickup 100% tone at around 40% and it's pretty thumpy and focused if you ask me :)
Unless the knobs on your amp are glued you can make a lot of basses sound like a lot of other basses.
Shhhhhhh, stop being rational.
what are some examples of a Precision sounding like a Jazz bass by changing the knobs on the amp? How about a Precision or a Jazz sounding like a Stingray with the EQ cranked? I've never heard anything close to it.
@@rrdream2400 "like" doesn't mean identical... and being "like" is far enough in many situations, especially considering that live sessions are most of the time massive audio goatf*cks and only very rarely chamber music grade experiences.
A blast at parties 🎉😂
@rrdream2400 Tons of Rush songs were recorded on a P bass when fans are arguing about whether it was the Rick or the Jazz. People think Radar Love and Super Freak were recorded with Ricks because of the music videos but Radar Love was a Danelecteo Longhorn and Super Freak was a P bass. People thought a lot of Queen stuff was P bass all the way through but it was a Stingray. Not just bass either, people thought Zep 1 and 2 were all Les Paul but it was a Tele on most of them. Lots think it's Gilmour's black Strat into an amp on Another Brick in the Wall pt 2, but it's a Les Paul direct into the board. People think many of Brian May's biggest recorded songs were done with an AC30, but it was a little solid state amp John Deacon wired up himself.
But I didn't even have to go that far. The vast majority of people still can't even tell that the Seinfeld theme is a synthesizer and not an actual bass guitar. People hear with their eyes. Nothing new.
You are making excellent points about how the instruments themselves can influence the player in his styling. That is to say that the way an instrument looks feels and sounds will inspire his or her imagination in different emotions and inspirations.🎉
I favour the j-bass neck. Especially like the one I had on my 72 J. Also, i almost only play with a pick. However, I only prefer the jazzbass sound in series (kinda like the Single Coil 51 P the best to be honest). Made that series mod on my 72 and it sounded more like a compressed P in an way which I liked a lot. As far as necks go, the only comfortable P-neck (for me) that I've ever played was on a MIJ P. It's slightly narrower than a standard P but wider than a J. Well, that's where I stand.
Absolutely awesome!
I’ve owned both for 25 years and when soloing the neck pickup on the Jazz you start getting too muddy when you start adding in the bass. It does get in the P neighbourhood, but you can still hear the difference.
Loved the video - very useful. But what was the writing on the jazz bass headstock?
Great vid
Yeah Phillip!!! Glad to see him here
My new Kiesel has two split coil pickups. It's extremely versatile and does everything I want plus some. I like traditional P and J basses, but I also like playing 6 string and 24 fret basses, so now I have the best of both worlds 😁
I’ll take it a step further. I got a American deluxe p bass that has the dual jazz pickups in the bridge. Makes it sound more soap bar style when paired with the p pickup. Not a fan of jazz basses but I do like this deluxe bass a lot. I’m really digging the wide range pickup in parallel wiring a lot gives a p bass like sound but more hollow and bigger.
Pretty damn close to my ear. I love your style. Intelligent and considered. Subscribed.
Loved the even presentation. Can you do a 51p vs split p next?
Great video, Philip is an excellent bass ambassador.
But if we're talking basses, I've got one question - Stringjoy, flatwounds, WHEN?
I started playing with a jazz bass got all around playing sound. But got playing r&b music, the P Bass is king.
I've found that the main difference to me is the level of a round warmth to the sound of the P Bass that extends a little farther throughout. It's the warmth factor of the tones. These two are my babies. And i love my Rickenbacker 2001 too.
Love the video! Great explanationm!
I have several of both P and J. They're definitely two different animals.
For me, the J has so many options. I ended up putting Dimarzio hum-cancelling pickups in all of my Js. That makes it sound more P-like when I solo the neck PU.
As far as necks go, I love them all! I have 2 early '80s, 32" scale, MIJ Squier Ps that I had refinished in Harley Orange and Seafoam, both with matching headstocks that I put Wilde P46 pickups and Tonestyler tone controls in. They sound killer! At the same time, my Fender Custom Shop J with Dimarzio PUs sounds incredible, too!
I guess it comes down to the right tool for the job...
I've heard good things about DiMarzio Js, some of which have series wiring or the option for series wiring, which can add some nice girth to a J sound. I recently put the stacked-coil Fender Gen4 Noiseless in my '06 MIA J. They're wired parallel and compress things a bit but still keep a lot of the single coil vibe.
Always interesting to hear from people who went down a similar road; I also have two of the MIJ Squier medium Precisions and they've definitely become my go-to instruments. I swapped the bridges for Hipshot Vintage and gave them new pots, plus a little channel to make truss rod adjustments on the fly. As you mention, it's all contextual. As much as I love them, sometimes I have to reach for something else, whether it's a full-scale P or J or something else entirely. Keeps it fun!
A jazz will never sound like a precision.
If you have one of each you have the majority of sounds you'll ever need covered.
Nice video! Try to use just the neck pickup on the Jazz, but roll the VOLUME knob a little bit down, just to get rid of the j-bass clarity. And adjust the tone knob as you want :)
How about a comparison between single coil and split coil P-bass?
Side by side tone comparison and especially how it sits in a mix.
I do appreciate the archetypical P-bass but I have a feeling the original single coil P - or its descendants - doesn't get very much love.
Why would that be?
Really cool video! Sam Kiszka of Greeta van fleet actually plays a switched out neck bass, really interesting to change feel but preserve some of the tone of the other style I guess
I have puppet hands so a P bass neck is too dang big. I came across a CS PJ. It has the J neck but the rest is all P. It is by far the best sounding bass I have for most endeavors. I thought this video was going to be a long walk but it was pretty dang good. Nice one!
My old school bass collegue once told me that sound of P bass can be compared as open slap into face while J bass sound is more like karate punches. Both can be used by a good "fighter" according to situation, but the key is ALWAYS in your hands
Close enough that you'd never be able to know which is which in a mix without looking
Insightful. The neck shape does influence your style. I play much further up the neck on a jazz..I play dub reggae used a PBass for longtime, when I changed my tuning to BEAD i stuck with the Jazz it holds the tuning better in a mechanical sense and allows you to use low B more effectively.
I installed a push-pull series switch on my jazz bass. With that and some tone adjustment you can get closer to a p bass.
Hi, noticed that you wound the strings only once around the tuner. Is there a reason for that? Is it aesthetic? Doesn't it slip a little? I was told you wind it around a two or three time so the spiral pushes the string lower and you get a better contact at the nut. Thanks.
J Bass lacks clarity on mobile phone, while the P Bass cuts right through.
Probably depends on what phone you have
@@SebastianLopez-dy3lv played it on 3 of my phones. P Bass still win. iPhone X, Redmi Note 10S, and Samsung Galaxy S20.
Makes me think back to when we had to listen to old Motown classics on a transistor radio. Lol
Sounded damn good, BTW!
I have two basses with PJ pickup configuration, mainly because that was the only option on offer with these higher end 1980s basses.
One thing I have noticed that separates the P from the J bass when testing them out against each other is touch response. A J bass with both pickups on to my ear has a quicker (or punchier as Phillip says) touch response, whereas the P bass is slower and smoother.
Both my J and my P have J necks. I don't ever try to get my J to sound like my P, and vice-versa. I play either due to the sound I want 😁 Love Phil's videos and I'm glad you guys put one on the Stringjoy channel!
The p bass had more weight to the note.
I think that nailed it!
Use the Kloppmann JB 61 that’ll kill the more weight to the note debate
I bought a 5 string ibanez PJ because i couldnt pick and i just wanted that versatility. To be honest i just have it rolled into P most of the time but you can get some awesome sounds out of the bridge pickup
I've got a couple PJ's and they're my go to these days. You can get a lot of variation out of them. I'm trying a stet of LaBella flats on one of them right now. I love LaBella's on my P but wasn't sure about on a P/J. I dig it so far but I'm still in the honeymoon phase haha. My favorite playing bass though is my Stingray. It's just awesome. I can tell you with certainty that no matter how hard you try, you can not get a Ray to sound like a P lol. I have pondered seeing if an HH Ray can get close but am not eager to part with the cash to order one (no shops near me carry them).
Thanks for sharing this video. I own several basses and I always grab either the jazz or P bass. Just like all serious musicians, you have several types of musical instruments from your arsenal. You can’t have just one type of bass, but several. I lean towards the jazz bass because I mainly play fusion and funk.
I like both and realistically don't want a whole herd of basses (I play other instruments) so I've thought about how to get the J closer to the P. A thicker neck, nickel wound or flats, fatter tuned pickups, and it's probably in the ballpark. Someday I'll get to trying it out.
I got an American Vintage II Jazz Bass recently. The neck pup with flats sounds as close to a P with flats as I’ve ever heard on a J.
Suggestion for the editor, it would’ve been useful if you overlayed the 2 waveforms so we could more clearly see the differences.
On bass, I like to play old Motown, mid 60's rock and funk. So I use a P Bass,,,,no wait, a Jazz bass, no ummm...Lol
Seriously my main bass is an old Squire PJ with a Fender Jazz neck and some custom wound p/u's that have the old school Fender thickness.
But I kept my original neck (with P Bass specs) and every now and then I'll switch back for a month or so.
I'll say this; I love to play guitar, but I always have more fun with my basses.
Great video Phillip, I will look up your channel.
I was a real snob about playing anything but a p bass when I was younger. I wanted all the options a bass could give me. Eventually I bought a p bass because of a player that I loved and it clicked for me instantly. It’s just the sound that I want from my bass. No fuss, no muss.
Mark hoppus.
LOVE IT
I would like a "J to P" video where there was also an EQ involved.
I play an active jazz bass, but in passive mode, I tend to turn down both the tone and the master volume, to get it sounding more like what I think were a P-Bass (while never having owned one). I think turning down the volume cuts some of the high, but in a different way than cutting the tone.
How do you get that gnarly tone on both of them? Is it a low string action? It doesn't sound like fret buzz though.
Hi. If I change the neck pickup for a Humbucker, It Will sound more like a pbass??
I have both Js and Ps, but no matter how hard I try, I have no idea how to make one sound like the other.
Whats makes pickups unique is the Windings in the coil the magnets that they use
I expected this video to be the one where Stringjoy finally announced they were going to start making flatwounds.
I totally agree that the instrument influences the playability
Is a Volume Volume tone more precise vs a volume pickup blend and tone on a J style bass?
I own both P-bass and J-bass. But my favorite for gigging are my PJ basses. The P pick up is open all the way and I blend in about 50% of the J pick up and tone rolled almost completely off. I use steel round wound strings and I play mostly with a pick for a brash, percussive sound that works very well in the hard rock cover band I play in that emphasizes 70's-80's-90's rock. I can play the J-bass a bit faster and smoother due to the slimmer neck.
Its very similar to Telecaster vs Stratocaster.
Both unique, a bit of similarity in some tones. Totally different physical feel.
The P and the J cover all the bases imo.
Unless you just have to have that Rickenbacker sound, which i did for a long time. Now i have a jazz and a precision lol
I replaced the wiring harness in my MIJ Jazz with a 62 stacked knob setup, then when a P tone is needed I roll the bridge pickup off completely.
I feel like with EQ'ing and a series to parallel switch you should be able to make most bass sound like other ones.
But I've never used a switch like that so I dunno
I like how a Jazz bass sounds and feels (body). It has a different mid frequency point than a P. I just can't stand the neck shape. Solution: custom JB with a PB neck! I could just swap Fender parts. But I had a great opportunity to order a custom instrument from Mike Lull (God rest his soul). It's been my go-to bas for 5+ years.
They are both great basses, but my favorite is the Jazz Bass. I will choose that over any other bass if I have the choice.
The J bass still has that quacky tone, even though it's mellowed. Reminds me of John Paul John's J bass on Custard Pie.
This was truly killer!! And Conrad was the perfect guy for this video 🙌🏻 He got it pretty close. But the P Bass is just an oddity. I never like it in solo. Even in this solo example the Jazz sounds more articulate when pretending to be the PB. But there's something about a P Bass that just sits perfectly in a mix. It's something between 600 & 800 Hz. Almost like that's the top of the smiley face curve. Where a JB has its upper smiley face sitting more between 1k and 3k. Both the low and high frequency of the PB sit just under the respective low and high frequencies of a guitar. It's the perfect support mechanism. As a guitar player, it took me a long time to see the true valve of a P Bass. All you really need to make it fit a mix is the volume fader 🤗
Tough choice. I want one of each 😊
They sounded very similar in your test
I wish i could get your strings but since im in the uk it would cost me £20 for one set of strings so im probably gonna overspend on one set and if i like them get three pairs everytime
I settled for a PJ configuration
I love both the P and Jazz Bass. But I have to say that I prefer playing a Jazz. It feels better to me, I prefer the body and neck shape, and in the mix, it gets me close enough to a P tone if it's needed. And having the options for a nice slap od solo sound, or use both pickups for a more "elegant", less aggressive all-around pop sound comes on top. The most striking things about a P bass are its simplicity and this sound that it does in perfection. But in my opinion PJs are not the best of both worlds but rather a big compromise. You loose the vibe and simplicity of a P (although you get this iconic sound and the overall feel), the tone cap is to strong for the bridge pickup (doesn't get all the J bridge solo sounds), and blending both pickups doesn't give you that iconic slap sound. It's a different sound that has its fans, but it's not for me. For maximum versatility, I'd reach for a J/MM, something like a Lakland, Sandberg TM, or my Clover Apeiron.
They are similar if you cut off the tone on a jazz bass. However, despite it is a similar tone there is something missing in the midrange, I would say jb is more scooped
The only way you can get a jazz bass to sound 95% like a pbass is by rewiring it.
Jazz basses (most) are wired in parallel.
If you wire the 2 jazz pickups in series and connect to 1 volume, 1 tone you would practically have a pbass.
I say 97% close to sonically identical to a pbass because the position of the pickups. There's no escaping the overtones and how they affect the fundamental tone based on positioning of the pickups.
But I lied. This is not the only way to get your jazz bass to sound like a pbass. However, that said if you really want a pbass sound, then just get/play a pbass. If you want your pbass to get the highs like a jazz bass, the easiest solution is to switch out your .047 cap for a .033 or .022 cap but again because of the inherent position of jazz pickups vs. the p split coil pickup, it'll never be a 100% identical transformation.
I recommend experimenting with wiring options along with different capacitor values instead of getting stuck with this debate of whether a jazz bass can sound like a pbass. We all have our preferences, but without modifications you're never going to be able to change the laws of physics/electronics by just playing around with volume and tone knobs.
I think musicians should focus more on how their bass sits in the band situation they're in. In my younger years, I've met quite a few bass players who couldn't ace their auditions simply because they were convinced their pbass was the best bass for any application.
Very close! The tonal difference could be just up to individual differences. As in, individual instruments sound different after all.
J sounds a lot tighter while P sound is not as refined, but that's what I like about it.
My P-bass was stolen but, i still have my J-bass. I love my J-bass. It is a Geddy Lee model so the the bridge pickup is closer to the bridge. Also the neck is also a little thinner. Oh yeah, it also has a Badass 2 high mass bridge. Yes, i am Canadian.
My fretless is a J, but the recording bass is a P. Js sound great through a board, but there’s a reason engineers have always favored the P. They sit perfectly in the mix and you usually don’t really have to tweak them much. The P pickup and pickup position are pretty much the most perfect combination if you wanna work and always sound good.
That being said, my P bass also is actually a PJ because it’s always nice having that J at the bridge. It almost never gets used, though.
I have a P- bass with a Jazz bass neck 😊😊😊
But I love both.
A jazz neck pup is close, but not the same as a P.
P hits harder, way harder.
Different tools for different goals.
can you guys compare these to the music man bass too
Do the same test with a set of flats!
did you answer the question?
YES. (I have fooled many an engineer over the years) but it does NOT work the other way around.
They are both great basses, I think. I don´t need the sound of the single Bridge-Pickup from a J. Either I play both Pickups ore the neck. Then it sounds rather like a P
I like the high end presence from a Jazz bass, but in my hands I find they sound too thin and stringy. I fixed by cutting a big ugly hole in my jazz and sticking a PJ set in it.
One of each!
The debate continues but a PJ bass is just a P-bass with an extra appendage. You can't get the Jazz bass sound without 2 jazz pickups. You can get the honky bridge pickup tone but not the full on growl from both pickups. Also with both pickups active on a PJ bass, you lose noise cancelling you would get with a split coil or both Jazz pickups.
Now you should do a P Bass vs Mustang Bass video.
Great! Another interesting question would be: Can a PJ bass sound like a P or like a J bass?
whenever i pickup a jazz, or anything with the same control layout, my defualt go-to is always 'everything on full, roll back the bridge vol just enough for the phase cancellation mid scoop to go away' it always sounds so much more huge, and feels better to play (like im getting more instrument out of what im playing) without the frequency deficit in the mids.
that being said, p-bass gang gang
Low notes on Precision sounds almost like piano, Jazz bass didn't sound like that in this area.
Yes, that's where I hear the difference too.
My preference is the j-bass for the smaller neck. They have always sounded the same to me otherwise.