Unintentionally or not, the fact that BO4’s 1st zombies map took place on a sinking ship was definitely a sign… Looking back on it now, of course, I think VoD is a pretty fun map. The Titanic is such a memorable location, and the things to do can keep you busy for a while. Too bad it’s stuck with a confusing story which never got enough development, one which felt forced upon loyal zombies players like myself who wanted more Aether story content.
@@AfterLiveAnalysis I agree, I’ve really grown to love BO4’s maps over the last couple of months (partially because your retrospectives lit a fire under me to revisit the game). I am just incredibly indifferent about the Chaos story. I’ll always find the bizarreness and characters of the Aether story more memorable than the best stuff the Chaos story had to offer… except Diego, maybe XD
my biggest gripe with BO4 narrative wise (that i will shout until i die) is that there was zero chance of Chaos and Aether co-existing without one of them suffering. They had to either hold off on Chaos and give it the room to breath or let Aether end with Revelations. Just no reason to kill Chaos by splitting the attention
Sucks that Chaos and IW Zombies got cancelled because of the communities initial reaction. Both were amazing zombies iterations. Would love to see you do an IW Zombies Retrospective, these videos are always so well done. Keep it up dude! ❤
I have mixed feelings on IWZ. My favorite is ZiS but I really dislike That I can’t double pack without doing the easter egg, As I don’t have all the dlc on that game. It makes me usually play Rave instead.
@@dankmctwist6575 each map after ZIS allows you to get fuses and charge them so you can double pack without doing the main quest for ZIS, they're usually short side quests you can do
Apparently IWZ’s continuation was supposed to be in MW’19, but someone at either Infinity Ward or Activision shot that down because they were going for a “realistic” tone and that “Zombies don’t belong in Modern Warfare”. This info was revealed by Brian Bright and Lee Ross after the MW3R Zombies announcement.
@@pinnacleexpress420 uh would take me a bit to find. Chaos I remember being announced on twitter. And sadly Lee Ross has confirmed multiple times about IW. IW did have a sequel confirmed to be in the works but it got canceled. And Chaos got canceled because apparently "it wasn't popular enough"
I loved voyage... ☹ it honestly felt refreshing actually playing a difficult map! Boss fight was so cool, the chaos crew were fun, I didn't mind them...and you're on the titanic! Missed opportunity having the ship actually sink during the EE, but it's still a unique zombies map!
as a Voyage fanboy, the Electric Kraken is Objectively the best one of them all, literally a shotgun blast that kills everything in front, its so good it is nerferd against Blightfathers so you consider using the other 3 Krakens, but thats nothing a Helion or Specialist cant solve
Not "objectively" the best. It's terrible against Blightfathers and the Ice Kraken is better for the boss fight because it slows zombies down. Not sure if the Lightning Kraken can shoot down planets like the others.
I just wanna say as someone who recently got into zombies as a whole and just completed all main eastereggs of bo3 looking for the next experience. I thank you for this series as my friend warned me of the horrors that was bo4 and all of the "horrible maps" "trash perk system" etc all feeling like it stems from the rough launch of the game. All this meaning we would have never played any of these maps but after seeing your videos and showing them your videos we sll decided that this will be our next stop. So thank you for these amazing retrospectives and i wish you luck.
Absolutely love these retrospectives. I am absolutely gutted at how BO4 zombies was received and I couldn’t explain it to my friends in a way that would make them interested in giving BO4 a chance ( leaving BO3 for a bit ) however you exactly said what I had in mind. I have thankfully grabbed 8 different friends through all of the EE’s and there opinions/perspective changed with the help of your videos as well. Genuinely love your videos much love from Kuwait 🇰🇼 ❤❤ keep pushing bro
Bro thank for the super thanks. 🙏🏻 seriously I appreciate it greatly. Your comment means a lot to me as well - I just love this game a lot and want to share my opinions and feelings on it and it is super cool we can connect over that. Truly is special.
These retrospectives have reached another level of quality. They feel so unbiased while also reflecting your passion for the mode. Makes me feel like playing/exploring every map to get a better appreciation of them.
I actually like voyage of despair. The map is gorgeous, has subtle horror themes combined with the mythological steampunk aesthetics, the kraken is awesome to use, and the narrow corridors give me Verrück flashbacks with how challenging it can be. But the respawn mechanic do make it very bullshit when you do go down when you’re just trying to get through a door. That’s my only issue with it really. Oh wait, the catalyst spam. YEAH THAT SHIT SUCKS
I've been watching these map retrospectives and its brought back an old thought again that one day Treyarch would pull another zombie chronicles out give us the old maps updated with current systems I know its probably never going to happen but I would love to play Call of the Dead or Buried with these newer systems in place. I know its a pipe dream and probably never going to happen especially with what you explained in your Tag Der Toten video but a man can dream.
No sir, you will not be invalidated here. We are bo4 enjoyers in this corner of the internet. It's only the worst of four great maps, it's still a great map. 👍🏻
@@AfterLiveAnalysisIt's sad that bo4 got cucked over by the youtuber community and activision/seldgehammer for their incompetence to act like adults and agree on something for their next game, and now we have mid war and vanguard :// it is what it is I suppose. Tho someday I hope I can learn coding and mapping to continue the chaos story and remaster the chaos maps!
I like voyage and bo4 as a whole. I disagree with this being the weakest of chaos, i think it goes to ix. Voyage reminds me of shadows in a way. Massive map with lots to do, and secrets to be found. I just think they could have toned down the size by just a bit though. Other than that, great map
I remember going for the voyage egg with my main group after we finished blood.. yet i still dont remember if we have ever finished it xD i remember how we died multiple times to the bossfight and also at the very last part of it yet i do not remember if we have ever cleared it or not x) i miss bo4 man blood is one of my fav maps of all time and this game got way too much shit :( cant believe its alerady been half a decade....
I finally completed the EE solo without downs for the calling card like 3 weeks ago and unless one of my friends really wants it I don’t think I will be going back solo anytime soon simply because I hate being on that ship lmao. I think the EE has great design but I absolutely hate how the map is built I guess, you are totally right about the setting but it’s not a great map for just killing zombies either imo
VoD was one of my favourite maps. The EE was pretty bizarre as well. But the Eye of Odin boss fight was pretty amazing. They really crafted an interesting story in the Chaos maps. It's just a shame it got cut. Everything was overshadowed by the Aether storyline. I'd have prefered Chaos being the only story. Rather than a half cooked aether Cold War and Vanguard.
I can just imagine if voyage of despair was saved for a game like cold war with its mechanics to mantle up on things and such and phd and all the other effects this map would be actually a solid map or idk thats my opinion
I would keep the stoker or whatever he called as a boss for the map but heavily buff him and have him as main boss however blightfather and the elementals will be cut from the map most of those dont even look like they fit the map and i would maybe keep the ice elementals maybe change his appearance to a guy kinda like mr freeze where he shoots ice at ya through either a gun whiles he's in some submarine type metal suit or keep him as an ice creature but change his appearance to be bigger and more hulkish looking but as for the wonder weapon i think id keep it the same appearance but add tenticles all around it make it look like a kraken and it would have two different ways of firing first is a massive blast of water that knocks back any zombies in its path and drowns them instantly itll only be able to take 10 at a time but it has 120 shots base ammo packapunch would make it to 250 but it would be showing an animation while theyre lying on the ground the water will be washing into their eyes and mouths and stuff drowning them to their deaths as for the 8 kracken tenticles if ya use the other trigger button each tenticle will shoot out beams of ice it has a limit for up to 100 percent it drops drown quickly but can be refilled by taking it to a water station somewhere in the map that'll be added specifically for it the beams freezes zombies after about 2 to 3 seconds of it hitting them but can be devastating and can freeze an entire horde it can be packapunched and goes from 100 to 350 for tenticles ice power
I forgot to even mention the easter egg idk how to handle that im mainly talking map but as for the main boss while i like the eye of odin i wondered why we didnt get a boss fight with the kraken lol that boss could be too tier if handles right i just keep imaging pirates of the carribean dead mans chest when imaging what that could be like to go against
I really did wish that dead of the night and voyage were both day 1 maps instead of 9. It would’ve made the storyline alot more coherent instead of having to buy it to understand who the group was or what scarlet’s intentions were. PS: voyage isn’t horrible but it definitely is the weakest zombies map on bo4 in my opinion.
this was the plan, but seems like DotN couldn't get the voice actors in time. I would've been fine with this as I already like DOTN and I think IX couldve turned out even better with more time to cook.
Hell yeah, that's my FAVORITE way to listen to new content creators. It's the highest honor, in my opinion. Thank you for letting me be a part of your day :)
Love your retro’s watched every single one completely, never gets boring. You have a good presentation style maybe do something in that field in RL if UA-cam don‘t or won‘t cut it🤔
When I first started playing Bo4 I hated Voyage with a passion but over time grew to understand the map and actually appreciate what it did. It's not a great map in my opinion, like 5.5-6/10 but I do often go back to it. Great video btw.
Agree aether should of been finished first then chaos would of had a great chance and we could of started with dead of the night and had the chaos story in order.
I actually went to the titanic museum a few years ago, in there they had a 3d recreation of what rooms looked like on the ship, playing Voyage as much as i did, i could navigate through a lot of it XD. Treyarc definitely went there for reference
My conclusion about Voyage of Despair was the complete opposite of yours. I love the map. It's my favorite on Black Ops 4 because it is more on the simple side. I still miss the old school BO1 days and Voyage of Despair was the last map where there was enough breathing room on the mic to actually have a conversation with people rather than have the chat just filled with directions (btw I am NOT an easter egg player). When people say it's a bad map, they're approaching it like it's supposed to be Origins or Shadows of Evil when it plays the best when you think of it like Call of the Dead. Plus the rooms in the map are actually about as tight as Gorod Krovi, meaning if you have multiple people in the game, there are plenty of spaces to train up; it's just a little too tight for Solo. The atmosphere / setting is great. The easter egg is creative, challenging, and interesting. I consider it a Top 10 map of all time.
real shame most of us dont have the means to explore the map to take in its beauty without being harassed by zombies and always having to keep moving and checking.
As the world's biggest Voyage fanboy(I unironically think its the greatest map of all time) I must respectfully disagree. edit: The Electric Kraken is actually immensely overpowered for Training, as it is effectively a full auto infinite ammo thundergun(2 shots kills a full horde of 24) and the Ice kraken is amazing for camping. This generally makes the gameplay loop of Voyage of despair very refreshing as sometimes you might not have the lightning limb so you can repurchase ammo for your Lightning kraken, and will then need to switch to the Ice kraken and vice versa, and the Grand staircase, poop deck, and Forecastle are all extremely well connected via teleporters, so it never feels like a hassle to move around the map once you know where the teleporters are.
I love the Chaos Story/BO4... and I don't want to give the entire video away... but I just think it's the weakest of the four. But it's like trying to pick which child you hate the most. I don't hate any of them. I was also struggling to come up with a good title for this video since my Chaos thesis relies more on the other three maps. I don't think your opinion is unwarranted, friend.
yeah nothing against you I love your vids, i just personally find the gameplay loop of being extremely powerful with the kraken, but also having to constantly be hyperaware of what catalyst limbs you have+Having to swap from camping to training to be very engaging. The lightning kraken is very good for training and the Ice is very good for camping, but theres only 3 different catalyst types allowed at once, so having to swap between ice and lightning every few rounds and switching from camping to training is really enjoyable(Especially because the camping spot at the grand staircase actually almost entirely stops catalyst spawns, making refilling your kraken ammo nearly impossible without incurring immense risk)@@AfterLiveAnalysis
@@AfterLiveAnalysisI think ix is the weakest out of chaos because it gets repetitive, the wonder weapon sucks, ans the Easter egg is worse than voyage l.
@@jordanw4344That’s how I feel too. IX has interesting areas, mainly the 4 perk areas, but It feels like you never go to those interesting rooms because the spawn room is just the best place for survival. And the spawn room is just kinda boring visually.
seen a lot of youre videos of the past couple of weeks love youre enthusiasm for the franchise wish i could go back and grasp my love for the franchise but its just not the same. Never stop making videos thank you for the fun videos
The real thing that I cant stand about voyage is if u wanna do the egg u pretty much need a rocket for the boss if u want to make sure u will get it done, anything else is very iffy especially with more people since u gotta put up that much more damage and unless someone has the helion then chances are slim in the average players game
Great video! While I do think Voyage is an overhated map (arguably the most overhated map in COD zombies), I do think it's still on the weaker side of BO4 and has many valid reasons to criticize it. Still a pretty good map though IMO
Just now had the time to watch this video. Your videos are an absolute breath of fresh air, especially since its so different than what is posted mkre within the community. Keep up the good work! Ive really enjoyed watching all your map retrospective immensley.
So I'm going to start this by saying I do understand what you're saying, if we look back, it is objectively the worst chaos map, but as far as being a bad map, that's not true. I know you said there's not much replayable features here, but that to me isn't true, the upgraded shield is not only a fun quest to do with great visuals, but it is a proper upgrade to the shield vs IX which sometimes won't work, and it gives the shield much more health than it seems, and the Kraken still remains as one of the most overlooked wonder weapons, as prior to cold war, you could not buy ammo for your wonder weapon, except this one, and that's a massive point I have to repeatedly make as it's a new, never before seen feature in a wonder weapon, not to mention the weapon itself is great with decent power, mobility, and CC to keep you alive in the toughest of situations, no it doesn't shoot the coolest or whatever, but its features and mechanics are so overlooked it hurts, because the weapon is phenomenal, but because it shoots cannons, vs some super special effect like most others, it's thought of as bad, but the Kraken is great Also the layout is great, I get your origins statement, but that map has poor interconnections, yes you can travel through the crazy place, but guess where the gramophone will be, that's right, where you left it. So you'll have to travel the entire map anyway just to go get it. Here it's different, not only are there multiple portals, but they drop you off near opposite portals AND at points of interest (like PaP locations) which also gets overlooked. And yes there are tight spaces and confusing corridors but that's the point. I guess it hits home cause I've been on a cruise so many times, but it is a maze traveling through your first few times, and personally, 3arc nailed the layout perfectly for me, because it's not easy to jump in and play this map, but once you learn, that's when it's fun, and when you master it's traversal, you'll be completing tasks and finding PaP locations in record time. OK I know this is a lot, but you should understand more than anyone, I love this map, and sure I can take a step back and acknowledge it is the worst of the chaos maps objectively speaking. But it's not a bad map, and people sometimes can't differentiate "I don't like this map" with "this map is bad". But it is the zombies community and I guess I shouldn't expect much of anything except complaints about long paragraphs on an analysis vid like yours lol Phenomenal work my man, can't wait for the next.
Zombies > Campaign > Multiplayer (How they should focus on the games vs how it is focused on) Battle Pass > Multiplayer > Loading Screen > Campaign/Zombies
I hope when you cover IX you talked about the rooms of IX for each god. I find them so cool but Zeus' is so weird to me because we see statues of Julius Caesar who is Roman. I think it would've been cool to see Alexander the Great, Philip II, Leonidas.
I will touch on them a bit, but I am not very educated on the mythological aspects as much as I’d like to be, and rather than cover the same stuff throughout voyage, IX, and DOTN… I was planning on doing a mini crash course in Ancient Evil.
@@AfterLiveAnalysis there isn't much for Mythology wise. There's some references like Zeus shield with Medusas head and the Medusa coins for the EE song.
I love this map and will defend forever because when I was a 12 years old I always wanted a titanic map and the ee song is amazing with them guitar solos
I think in total I played voyage for a few days and just did not care to even finish it because the story was not interesting to me and I already knew the ship would sink so it left no room for questions. Also, I felt like I was running in circles in the game, actually was motion sick a few times. Went back and played today after seeing this, still the same. Boring, complicated hud, and was not interesting. I still prefer this over what Zombies has become now with the DMZ bulls*it.
Never gave a damn about the ether storyline, previous characters, or any other previous storyline for that matter which you keep referencing. Huge Titanic and history fan. This map is absolutely incredibly beautiful and the developers did the Titanic justice with the attention to detail on just about all parts of the ship / map. This is by far my favorite Black Ops Map of all time. Watching the tool bag so called OG great Zombie players rage made my day. Voyage of Despair is such an immersive experience that keeps me playing it for years and years to come.
You're definitely in the minority about the Aether Storyline. But that's okay, not everyone needs to be a fan. I am one of the few who loved Chaos the entire time it was around. It's a shame it was shit on bc the amount of historical references that could have even made would have been astounding. Voyage is a great map and will go down in zombies history as such. But compared to the rest of the Chaos Maps, I think it's the "worst" one. But that's like picking your favorite kid.
Its wild how the simple inability for Aether to end managed to kill both Chaos as a narrative and my personal interest in Dark Aether. Like, there was no way the community was gonna tolerate Chaos after they included Blood of the Dead and Classified as launch maps, no matter how good any of it was. If they had left Chaos for whatever game came after, i guarantee it wouldve been much more positively received. Plus, just like... fckin end it Aether already, Dark Aether is the most transparent attempt at a "new" story thats going to end with the whole old gang back, im so over it
I never understood the hate this map and bo4 gets in general. People crying because they took out jug and gave us more health is why we now have the second rate round based maps we have now. There are so many secrets on voyage. Along with one of the best wonder weapons of all time. You could get infinite ammo. High rounds are so fun on this map. Haters ruined zombies.
ua-cam.com/video/of8eE62b6FE/v-deo.htmlsi=THaAt9E1JCao3sy9 Moving things over to another channel but there is dead of the night. Ancient will be out soon.
Honestly The only chaos map I don’t like is IX Voyage is enjoyable to me because the layout is much more interesting than IXs due to the tight, close quarters areas. Its challenging but thats what makes it enjoyable Imo. My favs of the chaos story are dead of the night and ancient evil though. Those maps had so much content and things to do!
It seemed like all the crashes were on the console. I got it on pc when it came out and i never had 1 crash. And my specs were dog shit at the time to a point i upgraded in 2020.
I personally didn’t have crashes on console either. I think the issue was co-op primarily and there a bug with memory allocation that was causing the crash. As a solo player I didn’t really experience it. But I am not sure if our experience is anecdotal or not. Bc I hear mixed things.
See I loved voyage but if they finished aether and did chaos as they did zombie chronicles while also closing off aether within the season pass maps it could have succeeded
Yoyage always gets a bad wrap. I genuinely enjoy this map! And I like te Easter egg & I enjoy the boss fight too. It’s def not for a casual player that’s for sure. But bo4 wasn’t made for casual players. Bo4 is def for hardcore zombies players imo. With 4 maps at launch I think that’s what really hurt the maps legacy. Once you understand the game mechanics, how the zombies work, and map lay out it’s really is not that bad. Have you ever like fully submerged yourself with the environment of the map? It’s so creepy! All the creepy ambience and sounds, it’s beautiful. I do wish this map had challenges like 9 and tag. Countless hours of egg runs and high rounds have been accomplished on this map!
I don't hate it at all! I just think it's the weakest showing of the four! Fortunately for you, there is 45 minutes of me explaining the whole thing here. Feel free to push back as much as you want. I'm open to other ideas 💡
For me its my second favourite map in BO4, I just love the setting, and honestly it doesn't feel that hard for me, but maybe I just am not a real gamer with fuckin round pb of 500
I think a lot of easter egg difficulty resides in the players mind. Because while voyage is the hardest map in bo4, I also don't think its that hard either. But I also have played it a million times. And it is a great map - but I just believe that the other chaos maps are better. They're all dope though!
Yes, people just play Voyage wrong. The raw gameplay of the map is probably the best in BO4 and it's super fun to treat it like Ascension or Call of the Dead and just have fun meeting new people in an environment that's less stressful and structured than other modern Zombies maps. Plus, the setting and atmosphere are amazing and the Easter Egg is creative, interesting, and challenging if you decide to go for that.
I wouldn’t fall Voyage the worst, I still think Dead of the Night is a contender for worse cod zombies map but definitely the worst Chaos map for me. It was the peak of Blundell’s worst habits when he took over zombies Rubbery/flat looking cutscenes, obnoxious focus on fantasy creatures instead of zombies, a focus on a bad overproduced story instead of wave-based horde survival, annoying color pallet that looks like saturation was set to 200%
Lets not kid ourselves people, BO4 as a whole was doomed since the beginning because instead of finishing the 1 decade long story of aether with a bang they decided to half assed 2 stories and calling it "innovation/new beginning" GTFO.
I will one day - but we are far away from that day. I am going to finish BO4, review the launch of MWZ, and then WW2 and IWZ. Once those videos are done, I will go back to the Black Ops series because I havent really played them and I would like to give them the respect they deserve.
Yeah im going to have to vehemently disagree on the opinion that Legion is in any way a good boss fight, a bullet sponge boss fight you have to beat in 8 minutes, a worse Mephistopheles where your main concern is being surrounded by mini boss enemies, but you cant focus on them because then you cant deal enough damage to the boss, where you have to use the most OP guns and specialist at their most optimal while exploiting the pathing to let you breathe, there is a reason it was immediately nerfed. It and the preceding EE past the first time is barely any fun and any boss that requires the player to be perfectly optimal is already poor design in my opinion, only excusable in something like a classic RPG where it is literally a numbers game. My standard for good zombies boss is Mephistopheles and both Legion and Veronica attempt to emulate it, but fall short. In terms of working with other people as well i feel legion makes it worse as much as it make it better, never mind that ive never managed to beat Legion multiplayer because CW be CW and every single attempt has always bugged out in some way but also having to deal with perfectly optimizing other people and how one down is enough to fully ruin a run
I agree the Meph is the best boss of all time but this is a complete reframe of my argument as I am not comparing Treyarch to other developers. I am only comparing them against their history. When you're creating a thesis you have to sound boundaries bc then it becomes limitless. If I compare against Meph then I have to accept arguments against IW, WW2, and other games Main Quests, map design, etc etc. So I keep the framing simple so I know where to draw the line and confine my video. Otherwise it becomes absolutely chaotic (no pun intended). When I get to the IW review then I will argue from the premise of which you're arguing bc it makes more sense since Treyarch is the backbone of what we consider zombies to be as well as there being less content made by IW for IWZ so it isn't an impossible task to make said arguments. But I can't in good faith constantly shift the goal posts to make my point or else it becomes an unstable argument. I get what you're saying and you're not wrong, although I still like the Legion boss fight, you're not wrong in the sense there are better examples to use outside the treyarch scope.
@@AfterLiveAnalysis even within Treyarc and excluding all others, Legion is still nowhere in the range of fun, all my other complaints outside of Meph comparisons still stand, which i would argue should be prefaced since Treyarc does not exist in a vacuum as the only zombies maker and take influence from other's work and hell there's a lot of small bones from sledgehammer and WW2 in CW particularly from it's development, but that it neither here nor there. Even within Treyarc's own history there are better bosses with more interesting mechanics and strategies than Legion, none of which have an 8 minute timer which is my biggest gripe, good bosses fall within two camps, where the threat is still mostly zombies and special enemies but you have to be better aware of your environment or timing (for boss attacks or vulnerability windows) like Perseus, Nidhhog (voyage Eye), Dragon (GK) or where the boss itself is the threat and zombies are minimal threats, like Nikolai in GK and Valentina, there can be mixups like Avogadro or where it shifts from zombie threat to boss threat. Legion screws this up by being too even with say both Megatons and Abominations being extremely dangerous when taking your eyes off them, and if you kill them another takes it's place within a minute, taking your eyes away from Legion leads to being blindsided and while he's broadly less dangerous in terms of damage when dealing with all else leads to cheap deaths, with most of the time one down can pretty much end the run since you'll at the minimum lose damage (deadshot/Death perception) or survivability/speed (speed cola/staminup) and the most important thing, point you *have* to be constantly shooting him, to break his armour or kill the orbs because again *you only have 8 minutes, 8 and a half at best* you miss killing an orb when armour breaks you may as well restart and go through 2-3 hours of an optimized playthrough again+EE(which can be RNG depending on your goal [ie what guns you get/going for, perk order/bonuses etc], side missions and other players). Some of these things may be alleviated with other players but CW refuses to let me do this EE with other players, never mind finding people with decent skills.
Time Stamps/Chapters:
Introduction 00:00
Pure Chaos 02:24
Voyage of Despair 08:21
Gameplay 29:10
Side Modes 42:16
Conclusion 44:18
This map is going to look like gold compared to the steaming pile of escort quests we get next week.
Hahaha this made me laugh
You mean literal outbreak
Unintentionally or not, the fact that BO4’s 1st zombies map took place on a sinking ship was definitely a sign…
Looking back on it now, of course, I think VoD is a pretty fun map. The Titanic is such a memorable location, and the things to do can keep you busy for a while. Too bad it’s stuck with a confusing story which never got enough development, one which felt forced upon loyal zombies players like myself who wanted more Aether story content.
Haha I was thinking about that as well. Granted I love BO4 but the irony is not lost on me.
@@AfterLiveAnalysis I agree, I’ve really grown to love BO4’s maps over the last couple of months (partially because your retrospectives lit a fire under me to revisit the game).
I am just incredibly indifferent about the Chaos story. I’ll always find the bizarreness and characters of the Aether story more memorable than the best stuff the Chaos story had to offer… except Diego, maybe XD
my biggest gripe with BO4 narrative wise (that i will shout until i die) is that there was zero chance of Chaos and Aether co-existing without one of them suffering. They had to either hold off on Chaos and give it the room to breath or let Aether end with Revelations. Just no reason to kill Chaos by splitting the attention
😂😂😂😂👍
Sucks that Chaos and IW Zombies got cancelled because of the communities initial reaction. Both were amazing zombies iterations. Would love to see you do an IW Zombies Retrospective, these videos are always so well done. Keep it up dude! ❤
I have mixed feelings on IWZ. My favorite is ZiS but I really dislike That I can’t double pack without doing the easter egg, As I don’t have all the dlc on that game. It makes me usually play Rave instead.
@@dankmctwist6575 each map after ZIS allows you to get fuses and charge them so you can double pack without doing the main quest for ZIS, they're usually short side quests you can do
Apparently IWZ’s continuation was supposed to be in MW’19, but someone at either Infinity Ward or Activision shot that down because they were going for a “realistic” tone and that “Zombies don’t belong in Modern Warfare”.
This info was revealed by Brian Bright and Lee Ross after the MW3R Zombies announcement.
Ww2 had a legendary run too
@@pinnacleexpress420 uh would take me a bit to find. Chaos I remember being announced on twitter. And sadly Lee Ross has confirmed multiple times about IW. IW did have a sequel confirmed to be in the works but it got canceled. And Chaos got canceled because apparently "it wasn't popular enough"
I loved voyage... ☹ it honestly felt refreshing actually playing a difficult map! Boss fight was so cool, the chaos crew were fun, I didn't mind them...and you're on the titanic! Missed opportunity having the ship actually sink during the EE, but it's still a unique zombies map!
I love voyage too 😊!
as a Voyage fanboy, the Electric Kraken is Objectively the best one of them all, literally a shotgun blast that kills everything in front, its so good it is nerferd against Blightfathers so you consider using the other 3 Krakens, but thats nothing a Helion or Specialist cant solve
Not "objectively" the best. It's terrible against Blightfathers and the Ice Kraken is better for the boss fight because it slows zombies down. Not sure if the Lightning Kraken can shoot down planets like the others.
I just wanna say as someone who recently got into zombies as a whole and just completed all main eastereggs of bo3 looking for the next experience. I thank you for this series as my friend warned me of the horrors that was bo4 and all of the "horrible maps" "trash perk system" etc all feeling like it stems from the rough launch of the game. All this meaning we would have never played any of these maps but after seeing your videos and showing them your videos we sll decided that this will be our next stop. So thank you for these amazing retrospectives and i wish you luck.
Absolutely love these retrospectives. I am absolutely gutted at how BO4 zombies was received and I couldn’t explain it to my friends in a way that would make them interested in giving BO4 a chance ( leaving BO3 for a bit ) however you exactly said what I had in mind. I have thankfully grabbed 8 different friends through all of the EE’s and there opinions/perspective changed with the help of your videos as well.
Genuinely love your videos much love from Kuwait 🇰🇼 ❤❤ keep pushing bro
Bro thank for the super thanks. 🙏🏻 seriously I appreciate it greatly.
Your comment means a lot to me as well - I just love this game a lot and want to share my opinions and feelings on it and it is super cool we can connect over that. Truly is special.
These retrospectives have reached another level of quality. They feel so unbiased while also reflecting your passion for the mode. Makes me feel like playing/exploring every map to get a better appreciation of them.
🥲
I actually like voyage of despair. The map is gorgeous, has subtle horror themes combined with the mythological steampunk aesthetics, the kraken is awesome to use, and the narrow corridors give me Verrück flashbacks with how challenging it can be. But the respawn mechanic do make it very bullshit when you do go down when you’re just trying to get through a door. That’s my only issue with it really. Oh wait, the catalyst spam. YEAH THAT SHIT SUCKS
Why am i tearing up over a video game damn ... i'll miss this style of maps very much 😓
Love these in depth vids bro. You're the only one who has reviews so jam packed with information and explainations
The real Voyage of Despair were the friends we made along the way.
Lmaooo yes they were
I've been watching these map retrospectives and its brought back an old thought again that one day Treyarch would pull another zombie chronicles out give us the old maps updated with current systems I know its probably never going to happen but I would love to play Call of the Dead or Buried with these newer systems in place. I know its a pipe dream and probably never going to happen especially with what you explained in your Tag Der Toten video but a man can dream.
I’ve always loved Voyage since the start of bo4 and I always felt invalid for liking it since it was the most disliked map :(
No sir, you will not be invalidated here. We are bo4 enjoyers in this corner of the internet. It's only the worst of four great maps, it's still a great map. 👍🏻
@@AfterLiveAnalysisIt's sad that bo4 got cucked over by the youtuber community and activision/seldgehammer for their incompetence to act like adults and agree on something for their next game, and now we have mid war and vanguard :// it is what it is I suppose. Tho someday I hope I can learn coding and mapping to continue the chaos story and remaster the chaos maps!
15:11 As a Dead of the Night defender, I’m looking forward to its retrospective.
I stand with you brother.
I ADORE DOTD
Finally, fellow DOTN enjoyers
I love dead of the night so much
I like voyage and bo4 as a whole. I disagree with this being the weakest of chaos, i think it goes to ix. Voyage reminds me of shadows in a way. Massive map with lots to do, and secrets to be found. I just think they could have toned down the size by just a bit though. Other than that, great map
No idea why people insist on saying IX is so great. It's boring as fuck.
I remember going for the voyage egg with my main group after we finished blood.. yet i still dont remember if we have ever finished it xD i remember how we died multiple times to the bossfight and also at the very last part of it yet i do not remember if we have ever cleared it or not x) i miss bo4 man blood is one of my fav maps of all time and this game got way too much shit :( cant believe its alerady been half a decade....
I think VoD's setting is phenomenal, but trying to play through the easter egg turned into a nightmare and i just skipped this EE
I finally completed the EE solo without downs for the calling card like 3 weeks ago and unless one of my friends really wants it I don’t think I will be going back solo anytime soon simply because I hate being on that ship lmao. I think the EE has great design but I absolutely hate how the map is built I guess, you are totally right about the setting but it’s not a great map for just killing zombies either imo
VoD was one of my favourite maps.
The EE was pretty bizarre as well. But the Eye of Odin boss fight was pretty amazing.
They really crafted an interesting story in the Chaos maps. It's just a shame it got cut. Everything was overshadowed by the Aether storyline.
I'd have prefered Chaos being the only story. Rather than a half cooked aether Cold War and Vanguard.
So glad I took a chance on a smaller channel, this is such a good retrospective.
I can just imagine if voyage of despair was saved for a game like cold war with its mechanics to mantle up on things and such and phd and all the other effects this map would be actually a solid map or idk thats my opinion
I would keep the stoker or whatever he called as a boss for the map but heavily buff him and have him as main boss however blightfather and the elementals will be cut from the map most of those dont even look like they fit the map and i would maybe keep the ice elementals maybe change his appearance to a guy kinda like mr freeze where he shoots ice at ya through either a gun whiles he's in some submarine type metal suit or keep him as an ice creature but change his appearance to be bigger and more hulkish looking but as for the wonder weapon i think id keep it the same appearance but add tenticles all around it make it look like a kraken and it would have two different ways of firing first is a massive blast of water that knocks back any zombies in its path and drowns them instantly itll only be able to take 10 at a time but it has 120 shots base ammo packapunch would make it to 250 but it would be showing an animation while theyre lying on the ground the water will be washing into their eyes and mouths and stuff drowning them to their deaths as for the 8 kracken tenticles if ya use the other trigger button each tenticle will shoot out beams of ice it has a limit for up to 100 percent it drops drown quickly but can be refilled by taking it to a water station somewhere in the map that'll be added specifically for it the beams freezes zombies after about 2 to 3 seconds of it hitting them but can be devastating and can freeze an entire horde it can be packapunched and goes from 100 to 350 for tenticles ice power
I forgot to even mention the easter egg idk how to handle that im mainly talking map but as for the main boss while i like the eye of odin i wondered why we didnt get a boss fight with the kraken lol that boss could be too tier if handles right i just keep imaging pirates of the carribean dead mans chest when imaging what that could be like to go against
Voyage is honestly one of my favourite maps. I understand why people dislike it but the atmosphere is just perfect
I really did wish that dead of the night and voyage were both day 1 maps instead of 9. It would’ve made the storyline alot more coherent instead of having to buy it to understand who the group was or what scarlet’s intentions were. PS: voyage isn’t horrible but it definitely is the weakest zombies map on bo4 in my opinion.
this was the plan, but seems like DotN couldn't get the voice actors in time. I would've been fine with this as I already like DOTN and I think IX couldve turned out even better with more time to cook.
Found your channel 2 days ago, been listening to your retrospectives while at work
Hell yeah, that's my FAVORITE way to listen to new content creators. It's the highest honor, in my opinion. Thank you for letting me be a part of your day :)
Love your retro’s watched every single one completely, never gets boring. You have a good presentation style maybe do something in that field in RL if UA-cam don‘t or won‘t cut it🤔
When you see that the voyage retrospective has released you know it is a good day👌
Good video! I like that you've actually done your research and you don't just say random stuff to fill up the video.
I really try my best to. But the COD rabbit hole is deeeeep.
When I first started playing Bo4 I hated Voyage with a passion but over time grew to understand the map and actually appreciate what it did. It's not a great map in my opinion, like 5.5-6/10 but I do often go back to it. Great video btw.
I love these retrospective reviews man, you do a great job I had to subscribe
Thanks dude. I genuinely appreciate your comments. Helps me keep fighting the fight.
@@AfterLiveAnalysis yes sir are you planning on doing just BO4?
Agree aether should of been finished first then chaos would of had a great chance and we could of started with dead of the night and had the chaos story in order.
I actually went to the titanic museum a few years ago, in there they had a 3d recreation of what rooms looked like on the ship, playing Voyage as much as i did, i could navigate through a lot of it XD. Treyarc definitely went there for reference
They went to the Queen Mary I saw Jason say in an interview. Which is close I think.
My conclusion about Voyage of Despair was the complete opposite of yours. I love the map. It's my favorite on Black Ops 4 because it is more on the simple side. I still miss the old school BO1 days and Voyage of Despair was the last map where there was enough breathing room on the mic to actually have a conversation with people rather than have the chat just filled with directions (btw I am NOT an easter egg player). When people say it's a bad map, they're approaching it like it's supposed to be Origins or Shadows of Evil when it plays the best when you think of it like Call of the Dead.
Plus the rooms in the map are actually about as tight as Gorod Krovi, meaning if you have multiple people in the game, there are plenty of spaces to train up; it's just a little too tight for Solo. The atmosphere / setting is great. The easter egg is creative, challenging, and interesting. I consider it a Top 10 map of all time.
Before I engage with your comment, I want to attempt to be as good faith as possible.
Did you finish the whole video?
real shame most of us dont have the means to explore the map to take in its beauty without being harassed by zombies and always having to keep moving and checking.
As the world's biggest Voyage fanboy(I unironically think its the greatest map of all time) I must respectfully disagree.
edit: The Electric Kraken is actually immensely overpowered for Training, as it is effectively a full auto infinite ammo thundergun(2 shots kills a full horde of 24) and the Ice kraken is amazing for camping. This generally makes the gameplay loop of Voyage of despair very refreshing as sometimes you might not have the lightning limb so you can repurchase ammo for your Lightning kraken, and will then need to switch to the Ice kraken and vice versa, and the Grand staircase, poop deck, and Forecastle are all extremely well connected via teleporters, so it never feels like a hassle to move around the map once you know where the teleporters are.
I love the Chaos Story/BO4... and I don't want to give the entire video away... but I just think it's the weakest of the four.
But it's like trying to pick which child you hate the most. I don't hate any of them. I was also struggling to come up with a good title for this video since my Chaos thesis relies more on the other three maps.
I don't think your opinion is unwarranted, friend.
Also, I'm always open to civil disagreements. So please never shy away from your opinions!
yeah nothing against you I love your vids, i just personally find the gameplay loop of being extremely powerful with the kraken, but also having to constantly be hyperaware of what catalyst limbs you have+Having to swap from camping to training to be very engaging. The lightning kraken is very good for training and the Ice is very good for camping, but theres only 3 different catalyst types allowed at once, so having to swap between ice and lightning every few rounds and switching from camping to training is really enjoyable(Especially because the camping spot at the grand staircase actually almost entirely stops catalyst spawns, making refilling your kraken ammo nearly impossible without incurring immense risk)@@AfterLiveAnalysis
@@AfterLiveAnalysisI think ix is the weakest out of chaos because it gets repetitive, the wonder weapon sucks, ans the Easter egg is worse than voyage l.
@@jordanw4344That’s how I feel too.
IX has interesting areas, mainly the 4 perk areas, but It feels like you never go to those interesting rooms because the spawn room is just the best place for survival. And the spawn room is just kinda boring visually.
seen a lot of youre videos of the past couple of weeks love youre enthusiasm for the franchise wish i could go back and grasp my love for the franchise but its just not the same.
Never stop making videos thank you for the fun videos
Working on IX as we speak.
Thank you for your comment. Really means a lot :)
The real thing that I cant stand about voyage is if u wanna do the egg u pretty much need a rocket for the boss if u want to make sure u will get it done, anything else is very iffy especially with more people since u gotta put up that much more damage and unless someone has the helion then chances are slim in the average players game
Great video! While I do think Voyage is an overhated map (arguably the most overhated map in COD zombies), I do think it's still on the weaker side of BO4 and has many valid reasons to criticize it. Still a pretty good map though IMO
Absolutely. Well said!
Just now had the time to watch this video. Your videos are an absolute breath of fresh air, especially since its so different than what is posted mkre within the community. Keep up the good work! Ive really enjoyed watching all your map retrospective immensley.
Thank you 🙏🏻 Jaden. I know it’s cliche, but without your support there is no channel. So thank you immensely.
Voyage is my least favorite Chaos map… but I still really like it. The amount of detail put into this map is insane.
So I'm going to start this by saying I do understand what you're saying, if we look back, it is objectively the worst chaos map, but as far as being a bad map, that's not true.
I know you said there's not much replayable features here, but that to me isn't true, the upgraded shield is not only a fun quest to do with great visuals, but it is a proper upgrade to the shield vs IX which sometimes won't work, and it gives the shield much more health than it seems, and the Kraken still remains as one of the most overlooked wonder weapons, as prior to cold war, you could not buy ammo for your wonder weapon, except this one, and that's a massive point I have to repeatedly make as it's a new, never before seen feature in a wonder weapon, not to mention the weapon itself is great with decent power, mobility, and CC to keep you alive in the toughest of situations, no it doesn't shoot the coolest or whatever, but its features and mechanics are so overlooked it hurts, because the weapon is phenomenal, but because it shoots cannons, vs some super special effect like most others, it's thought of as bad, but the Kraken is great
Also the layout is great, I get your origins statement, but that map has poor interconnections, yes you can travel through the crazy place, but guess where the gramophone will be, that's right, where you left it. So you'll have to travel the entire map anyway just to go get it. Here it's different, not only are there multiple portals, but they drop you off near opposite portals AND at points of interest (like PaP locations) which also gets overlooked. And yes there are tight spaces and confusing corridors but that's the point. I guess it hits home cause I've been on a cruise so many times, but it is a maze traveling through your first few times, and personally, 3arc nailed the layout perfectly for me, because it's not easy to jump in and play this map, but once you learn, that's when it's fun, and when you master it's traversal, you'll be completing tasks and finding PaP locations in record time.
OK I know this is a lot, but you should understand more than anyone, I love this map, and sure I can take a step back and acknowledge it is the worst of the chaos maps objectively speaking. But it's not a bad map, and people sometimes can't differentiate "I don't like this map" with "this map is bad". But it is the zombies community and I guess I shouldn't expect much of anything except complaints about long paragraphs on an analysis vid like yours lol
Phenomenal work my man, can't wait for the next.
These videos are so well made thank you!
Hey did you make an alt channel and just reupload your retrospective videos?
Yes, I am testing some things to try and understand youtube analytics more.
Zombies > Campaign > Multiplayer (How they should focus on the games vs how it is focused on) Battle Pass > Multiplayer > Loading Screen > Campaign/Zombies
lollll
The wasted potential of black ops 4 is so heartbreaking. I like what we got but it really should've been the best zombies game of all time.
I hope when you cover IX you talked about the rooms of IX for each god. I find them so cool but Zeus' is so weird to me because we see statues of Julius Caesar who is Roman. I think it would've been cool to see Alexander the Great, Philip II, Leonidas.
I will touch on them a bit, but I am not very educated on the mythological aspects as much as I’d like to be, and rather than cover the same stuff throughout voyage, IX, and DOTN… I was planning on doing a mini crash course in Ancient Evil.
@@AfterLiveAnalysis there isn't much for Mythology wise. There's some references like Zeus shield with Medusas head and the Medusa coins for the EE song.
@Carpediem357 oh yeah that stuff I’ll for sure talk about.
I love this map and will defend forever because when I was a 12 years old I always wanted a titanic map and the ee song is amazing with them guitar solos
I’m glad you “never let go” of your dream. That is cool they brought it to reality.
@@AfterLiveAnalysis thank you
I just got a decent computer few days ago. Finally i can try out BO3 and 4 after 4 years of playing WAW, BO1 and 2.😅 Can't wait.
I think in total I played voyage for a few days and just did not care to even finish it because the story was not interesting to me and I already knew the ship would sink so it left no room for questions. Also, I felt like I was running in circles in the game, actually was motion sick a few times. Went back and played today after seeing this, still the same. Boring, complicated hud, and was not interesting. I still prefer this over what Zombies has become now with the DMZ bulls*it.
Voyage of Despair is Treyarch’s Magnum Opus.
Never gave a damn about the ether storyline, previous characters, or any other previous storyline for that matter which you keep referencing. Huge Titanic and history fan. This map is absolutely incredibly beautiful and the developers did the Titanic justice with the attention to detail on just about all parts of the ship / map. This is by far my favorite Black Ops Map of all time. Watching the tool bag so called OG great Zombie players rage made my day. Voyage of Despair is such an immersive experience that keeps me playing it for years and years to come.
You're definitely in the minority about the Aether Storyline. But that's okay, not everyone needs to be a fan. I am one of the few who loved Chaos the entire time it was around.
It's a shame it was shit on bc the amount of historical references that could have even made would have been astounding. Voyage is a great map and will go down in zombies history as such. But compared to the rest of the Chaos Maps, I think it's the "worst" one.
But that's like picking your favorite kid.
Its wild how the simple inability for Aether to end managed to kill both Chaos as a narrative and my personal interest in Dark Aether. Like, there was no way the community was gonna tolerate Chaos after they included Blood of the Dead and Classified as launch maps, no matter how good any of it was. If they had left Chaos for whatever game came after, i guarantee it wouldve been much more positively received.
Plus, just like... fckin end it Aether already, Dark Aether is the most transparent attempt at a "new" story thats going to end with the whole old gang back, im so over it
I never understood the hate this map and bo4 gets in general. People crying because they took out jug and gave us more health is why we now have the second rate round based maps we have now. There are so many secrets on voyage. Along with one of the best wonder weapons of all time. You could get infinite ammo. High rounds are so fun on this map. Haters ruined zombies.
Still waiting for the last 2 chaos maps 😊
ua-cam.com/video/of8eE62b6FE/v-deo.htmlsi=THaAt9E1JCao3sy9
Moving things over to another channel but there is dead of the night. Ancient will be out soon.
can"t wait for the retrospective of my favorite map of all time: dead of the night, keep it up I can eat retrospectives all day
Did they nerf the boss fight at some point? Ran it the other day for the first time in years and it didn't seem as challenging.
Honestly The only chaos map I don’t like is IX
Voyage is enjoyable to me because the layout is much more interesting than IXs due to the tight, close quarters areas. Its challenging but thats what makes it enjoyable Imo.
My favs of the chaos story are dead of the night and ancient evil though. Those maps had so much content and things to do!
It seemed like all the crashes were on the console. I got it on pc when it came out and i never had 1 crash. And my specs were dog shit at the time to a point i upgraded in 2020.
I personally didn’t have crashes on console either. I think the issue was co-op primarily and there a bug with memory allocation that was causing the crash.
As a solo player I didn’t really experience it. But I am not sure if our experience is anecdotal or not. Bc I hear mixed things.
@@AfterLiveAnalysis Co-op seems like a likely reason cuz im also a solo player
Dang did treyarch take over the chaos crew again because this looks to be shelved 😢
See I loved voyage but if they finished aether and did chaos as they did zombie chronicles while also closing off aether within the season pass maps it could have succeeded
Yoyage always gets a bad wrap. I genuinely enjoy this map! And I like te Easter egg & I enjoy the boss fight too. It’s def not for a casual player that’s for sure. But bo4 wasn’t made for casual players. Bo4 is def for hardcore zombies players imo. With 4 maps at launch I think that’s what really hurt the maps legacy. Once you understand the game mechanics, how the zombies work, and map lay out it’s really is not that bad. Have you ever like fully submerged yourself with the environment of the map? It’s so creepy! All the creepy ambience and sounds, it’s beautiful. I do wish this map had challenges like 9 and tag. Countless hours of egg runs and high rounds have been accomplished on this map!
cant wait for my goat dead of the night
Not me looking for Stanley557 in the comment section
I fucking love Chaos.
It could have been so much more.
loving these retrospectives brother 👍🏽👍🏽
Honestly, Black Ops 2, 3 and 4 are my all time favorite call of duty games. I wish Black Ops 4 was introduced and received better.
Fab video as always, you are real good at this sir.
HEY I MISSED U FUCKING HYPE FOR THIS ONE
They should have completed the zombies storyline and then Gone chaos as year 2 but also I'm glad they didn't because I love cold war zombies
It’s a messy timeline. Who knew that the chaos storyline would cause so much chaos.
IDK if I feel the origins comparison as much as your mo- Shang Gri La
I dont get it. I actually like map and dont understand why people hate it so much
I don't hate it at all! I just think it's the weakest showing of the four! Fortunately for you, there is 45 minutes of me explaining the whole thing here. Feel free to push back as much as you want. I'm open to other ideas 💡
I think its the weakest but I’d still give it a 7/10
So to sum of the video: The community that not only built Zombies, also destroyed it.
It is!
For me its my second favourite map in BO4, I just love the setting, and honestly it doesn't feel that hard for me, but maybe I just am not a real gamer with fuckin round pb of 500
I think a lot of easter egg difficulty resides in the players mind. Because while voyage is the hardest map in bo4, I also don't think its that hard either. But I also have played it a million times.
And it is a great map - but I just believe that the other chaos maps are better. They're all dope though!
Voyage Is one of my favourite maps I Respect your opinion
Yes, people just play Voyage wrong. The raw gameplay of the map is probably the best in BO4 and it's super fun to treat it like Ascension or Call of the Dead and just have fun meeting new people in an environment that's less stressful and structured than other modern Zombies maps. Plus, the setting and atmosphere are amazing and the Easter Egg is creative, interesting, and challenging if you decide to go for that.
i actually really like the voyage ee 😶
Me too ✌🏻
Best current zombie youtuber another abdolut banger
My legs feel how big the map is🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
last time i was this early....
We're all a little early from time to time
Chaos is so peak that the worst map is still amazing honestly
You are the first person to crack the code of my title.
Based and Chaos pilled.
Great vid!
Thank you, Adam!
Literally everything
Treyarch made physical zombies comics??
Yes sir.
@@AfterLiveAnalysiswhy is dead of the night private
You're so based dotn is the best fucking choas map its my favorite bo4 map period
We try to be based around here
bo4 is really good with dlc. mw3 will be forgot
Fantastic video
Not as fantastic as you brother man.
I wouldn’t fall Voyage the worst, I still think Dead of the Night is a contender for worse cod zombies map but definitely the worst Chaos map for me. It was the peak of Blundell’s worst habits when he took over zombies
Rubbery/flat looking cutscenes, obnoxious focus on fantasy creatures instead of zombies, a focus on a bad overproduced story instead of wave-based horde survival, annoying color pallet that looks like saturation was set to 200%
Lets not kid ourselves people, BO4 as a whole was doomed since the beginning because instead of finishing the 1 decade long story of aether with a bang they decided to half assed 2 stories and calling it "innovation/new beginning" GTFO.
Can you do shangri la?
I will one day - but we are far away from that day. I am going to finish BO4, review the launch of MWZ, and then WW2 and IWZ. Once those videos are done, I will go back to the Black Ops series because I havent really played them and I would like to give them the respect they deserve.
@@AfterLiveAnalysis oh kk! Got it bro ❤️
Yeah im going to have to vehemently disagree on the opinion that Legion is in any way a good boss fight, a bullet sponge boss fight you have to beat in 8 minutes, a worse Mephistopheles where your main concern is being surrounded by mini boss enemies, but you cant focus on them because then you cant deal enough damage to the boss, where you have to use the most OP guns and specialist at their most optimal while exploiting the pathing to let you breathe, there is a reason it was immediately nerfed. It and the preceding EE past the first time is barely any fun and any boss that requires the player to be perfectly optimal is already poor design in my opinion, only excusable in something like a classic RPG where it is literally a numbers game. My standard for good zombies boss is Mephistopheles and both Legion and Veronica attempt to emulate it, but fall short. In terms of working with other people as well i feel legion makes it worse as much as it make it better, never mind that ive never managed to beat Legion multiplayer because CW be CW and every single attempt has always bugged out in some way but also having to deal with perfectly optimizing other people and how one down is enough to fully ruin a run
I agree the Meph is the best boss of all time but this is a complete reframe of my argument as I am not comparing Treyarch to other developers. I am only comparing them against their history.
When you're creating a thesis you have to sound boundaries bc then it becomes limitless. If I compare against Meph then I have to accept arguments against IW, WW2, and other games Main Quests, map design, etc etc. So I keep the framing simple so I know where to draw the line and confine my video. Otherwise it becomes absolutely chaotic (no pun intended).
When I get to the IW review then I will argue from the premise of which you're arguing bc it makes more sense since Treyarch is the backbone of what we consider zombies to be as well as there being less content made by IW for IWZ so it isn't an impossible task to make said arguments.
But I can't in good faith constantly shift the goal posts to make my point or else it becomes an unstable argument.
I get what you're saying and you're not wrong, although I still like the Legion boss fight, you're not wrong in the sense there are better examples to use outside the treyarch scope.
@@AfterLiveAnalysis even within Treyarc and excluding all others, Legion is still nowhere in the range of fun, all my other complaints outside of Meph comparisons still stand, which i would argue should be prefaced since Treyarc does not exist in a vacuum as the only zombies maker and take influence from other's work and hell there's a lot of small bones from sledgehammer and WW2 in CW particularly from it's development, but that it neither here nor there. Even within Treyarc's own history there are better bosses with more interesting mechanics and strategies than Legion, none of which have an 8 minute timer which is my biggest gripe, good bosses fall within two camps, where the threat is still mostly zombies and special enemies but you have to be better aware of your environment or timing (for boss attacks or vulnerability windows) like Perseus, Nidhhog (voyage Eye), Dragon (GK) or where the boss itself is the threat and zombies are minimal threats, like Nikolai in GK and Valentina, there can be mixups like Avogadro or where it shifts from zombie threat to boss threat. Legion screws this up by being too even with say both Megatons and Abominations being extremely dangerous when taking your eyes off them, and if you kill them another takes it's place within a minute, taking your eyes away from Legion leads to being blindsided and while he's broadly less dangerous in terms of damage when dealing with all else leads to cheap deaths, with most of the time one down can pretty much end the run since you'll at the minimum lose damage (deadshot/Death perception) or survivability/speed (speed cola/staminup) and the most important thing, point you *have* to be constantly shooting him, to break his armour or kill the orbs because again *you only have 8 minutes, 8 and a half at best* you miss killing an orb when armour breaks you may as well restart and go through 2-3 hours of an optimized playthrough again+EE(which can be RNG depending on your goal [ie what guns you get/going for, perk order/bonuses etc], side missions and other players). Some of these things may be alleviated with other players but CW refuses to let me do this EE with other players, never mind finding people with decent skills.
The problem with voyage of despair is that it exists
Origins flows way better than voyage not even comparable. Orgings is S teir voyage at best is C teir
Origins is a better map than Voyage no doubt, but the formers flow is mediocre at best, easily the weakest aspect of the map.
Precisely.
Pog