Sonic 3 & Knuckles - The Eggrobo Sprite Conundrum
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- In Sonic 3 & Knuckles (as well as Sonic & Knuckles alone) there exists a strange oversight in Flying Battery Zone Act 2. Eggrobo is nowhere to be found! This video looks into the widely accepted theory for this mistake, but also explains the exact reason why this occurs.
Cheat codes:
6813E:052E or F4AT-NLB8
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Flying Battery is the only stage that Knuckles doesn't have an exclusive path, this is important.
That is because he wasn't originally supposed to come to this zone.
@@InitialAA just like death egg
I believe this theory was confirmed with Sonic Origins artwork of sonic 3 when it was during development. The art would go over a basic layout of all the stages that Sonic would travel to as well as "Knuckles" routes (then called simply Rival).
In the concepts Flying Battery was intented for Zone 5, but was an exclusive route for Sonic. The Rival was to have his own exclusive Zone 5, titled 5B. However, when the stage art was shown on Sonic Origins, stage 5B seemed to never exist beyond the start point, what's left is just artwork of potential character designs of what eventually would become Knuckles.
Yep! It would seem the idea for Zone 5B was carried over in sense that Knuckles would still skip Flying Battery as originally planned.
As I child, I never thought about knuckles fighting a different villain. I always thought that robotinik was wearing a helmet because knuckles is stronger. Hahahaha
but metal sonic kills egg robo in sky sanctuary. you thought he killed robotnik?
@@troywright359 I never saw it as he dying... just exploded like a thousand times before
Oh, I thought that check was a mistake. It’s weird how they didn’t notice that the art wasn’t loading properly for Knuckles though, considering he got unique boss behaviour that would’ve need to be tested
Also, I found an unused object that would’ve been called by Super Sonic’s star particles. The way it gets called doesn’t happen in-game, but also strangely reminiscent of Hyper Sonic’s dash effect, which is also called by his star particles. Might make a proper video on it soon
This sounds interesting and I have never heard about it before.
@@SilverSonic1992 ua-cam.com/video/g4WAuIDejMs/v-deo.html
Gonna try and update TCRF with this info
1:53 I *love* the one-two flex employed here by following up the jump hit with that last-second glide dive. It is so clutch! 🤘
This is intresting... Its seems Sega did got lazy not to fix the notorious overshight in Flying Battery Zone Act 2 2nd Boss, because of the VRAM code bug.
But, its nice to see someone finally fixing it with at least an cheat code. 😅
Another oversight solved.
That's actually really interesting, especially for something that no one (to my knowledge) has documented until now!
I'm curious, since I have yet to verify it for myself: I noticed that you made Eggman giggle in Sonic 3C Delta, much as he did in Sonic 1 and 2. Did you reserve extra VRAM for that purpose or was the art dynamically reloaded?
Oh, I just realized: how do the EggRobo sprites handle the accidentally-unused forward-facing sprite?
The art technically was dynamically reloaded, although it didn't use uncompressed art as one might expect. I used KosM compressed art for the laughing sprites which happened to be fast enough to pull it off without requiring anymore VRAM. If Eggrobo were to use the unused forward frame here, it would simply use his second idle frame.
@@SilverSonic1992 I see. Thanks! The second answer is actually what I suspected.
@@Brainulator9 No problem.
What are you going to do wit sandopolis and death egg and sky sanctuary since we know nothing about them really
I was actually thinking the same thing.
Honestly its kinda Odd that Knuckles Goes through Flying Battery after it seems like it was starting to go down at the end of Sonics Run through....and Considering Knuckles had an Exit from Carnival Night to Ice Cap it makes sense to me that Knuckles in the Original skipped Flying Battery because it was Destroyed so he went strait to Ice Cap.
Perhaps this Was the case and near the end of development they decided to not only Move Flying Battery to after Mushroom Hill but decided for Knuckles to run through it aswell. The reason the Swinging Eggman fight is bugged like this because they were rushing to make it work...
Personally I still feel its weird that Knuckles goes through the Flying Battery....from what we see it looks like it is meant to go down after the zone ends.
Though I had an Idea.
Maybe they could of Changed Launch Base to one act then at the end of the act Eggrobo grabs Knuckles and takes him to The Flying Battery which is now crashed so its Also only one act but you Fight Big Arm there.
Eggrobo relaunched it
@@gmoneythestickman but it was going down?
Love these videos, keep up the good work dude
Thanks, will do.
@@SilverSonic1992 hope sonic 3c delta is going well just a question how is the s&k part coming along and good luck!
@@Unkown-il9oz We don't have a set timeline on that, but it is going well. Thank you!
@@SilverSonic1992 that’s good to hear can’t wait!
Knuckles fighting Robotnik is weird, everyone knows that in the Classic Sonic games logic.
@Stumpedlogs The Retro Engine remakes of Sonic 1/2 (which are considered the definitive versions at this point) feature Robotnik instead of Egg Robo in the egg mobile (interestingly enough, however, there's leftover code and graphics to use Egg Robo while playing as Knuckles that was pretty sloppily disabled, which might imply SEGA stepping in to disallow it). This is also the case for the OG Knuckles in Sonic 2, except in that game there's no Egg Robo code.
As well, if you play as Knuckles in Sonic Blast, Knuckles' Chaotix, all three Sonic Advance games, or Mania, you still fight Eggman.
Add Superstars to that too as Trip now has Eggrobo as her Rival. But she can still fight Eggman in the main Story Mode
cool
hemisphere
Engineer gaming
@Silver Sonic 1992 Awesome that you could restore an eggrobo/metal robotnik sprite that was intentially in the game.
Also I found loads of stuff in yours and ChainSpike's ROM Hack Sonic 3C Delta I've even seen the Mushroom Valley Zone Act 1 Miniboss by a little glitch. And Unused Level Slots and I can see you're doing some work on it. Although there was one thing that weirded me out, you said you we can play the ROM Hack when it gets released, However when I saw you're video on Flying Battery Zone in S3C Delta it was an early version for sure. And the weirdest thing is that the second part of the background that I noticed there was an error is not in S3C Delta at all in act 2. I searched around everywhere even in Debug Mode and it's nowhere to be found in the level. And other stuff is that the first act's jumping from floating platform to platform is not in the original version. Either that part was an early version but not having the second part of the background implemented makes me think this is not finalized for some reason. There are also some videos of me discovering some objects in those unused level slots including Lava Reef Zone/VVZ which will be released in probably alot later since I need to do the rest of the level slots and create miniboss/boss palette images and more.
Also one more thing I'm planning to make a video about a Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles the Echidna ROM I've edited myself so that everything looks like the prototype of Sonic 3's October Prototype as well as the S3C 0408 Prototype. However no matter how long I will search it will not be fully finished right now I've almost done all the possibilities of it however there are a lot of things that won't be possible because of tile editing.
Flying Battery was one of the zones that required the most work to be finished. The floating platform segment you are referring to was a placeholder until I could get the snake line platforms working. The background in Act 2 is also removed until I could fix it.
@@SilverSonic1992 Ok.
Loves your videos! They are very interesting :)
I appreciate it!
Sonic 3 & Knuckles : I was too lazy to make the sprites *insert Tails' yawning animation*
Sonic 3 A.I.R and Sonic 3 Complete : haha eggrobo go brr
Knuckles's story takes place after sonic's
I did indicate that in the video.
You come back
he come back
HE'S BAAAAACK!
Short answer; The boss is SUPPOSED to use Egg Robo's sprites but the developpers did an oopsie and put them at the wrong location so it uses the wrong sprites
1:22 finally
This is fixed in sonic 3 a.i.r tho......
Its accidentally, the developers, rushed the code.
Ah the glitch
Originaly , Knuckles wasn't supposed to go to Flying Battery which is why there is no Knuckles exclusive parts of the level .
Hello Silver Sonic 1992, long time no see
Hello there.
theory: eggman was camping out at flying battery
I like what the sonic 3 proto mod as likely a mockup screenshot
What?
If you play sonic 3 complete, you will se much better sprites
It is also possible to face Eggrobo in the Lava Reef 2 boss?
Nice vid thanks silver sonic
Thanks!
Great!
Thanks!
@@SilverSonic1992 No problem!
Great Discovery!
Finally I Know why this occurs, thx.
Fortunately, they fixed it in Origins.
Was wondering why you hadnt made any videos in a while! Still doing sonic rom hacking and stuff?
Yeah, sorry about the inactivity. Life's just been more busy as of late.
@@SilverSonic1992 I feel that! Only so much time in the day really. Ive always wanted to learn how to mod the Sonic games but, just never had the time to sit down and spend 4 hours getting started. I feel like if I were able to learn how, I'd be able to put at least an hour or two of work in a day on it, but getting started just didnt go well :/
@@MoneyHoneyBunny The entry learning curve is one of the hardest parts. It took me about 6 years to get where I am now. It's probably easier for some people though. I had a lot more time back when I first started.
@@SilverSonic1992 Thats definitely a long time! Thanks for the info, I think for me i just couldnt figure out the actual applications you use to edit the roms. There are just so many of them, IDK if there is maybe like, a preferred editor? It would be cool if there was more of an all in one editor but, from what Ive seen that's not the case. I have experience with rom hacking but, mostly with Pokemon games, and the earlier gen 1-3 games which are much easier to hack, and RPG games youre just working with information and whatnot... much different than a platformer
@@MoneyHoneyBunny Nowadays most people use disassemblies of the Sonic games as they allow more direct editing compared to the original ROM. I would recommend starting off with Sonic 1 or 2 as they are much easier to work with compared to the later games. The tools that are usually recommend are Flex2 for sprite/mapping editing, HivePal2 for color palette editing and SonLVL for level editing. There are older methods of hacking the ROM directly with tools such as Esrael Sonic Editor II and if you're simply doing little changes for fun without wanting to dig into all the inner workings it might be preferable and closer to what you're used to already.
I just tried clicking on the Discord link and it appears to be broken. Is it still possible to join?
@The Sonic Debugger! Oh? How so?
İ have question will you add the unused background chunks from the 1103 protoype For flying battery Zone?
It was planned to, but the hack is cancelled now.
@@SilverSonic1992 which and face the hack had great potential
Discord link not working
I can probably show you the video on where my ROM prototype i've edited is like I will post it once I've pretty much completed it.
Or you can tell me if you want to see the video right away I will be looking sometimes so, sorry if I'm a little late.
You made a ROM hack fixing this? What is it like?
@@SilverSonic1992 No, Sorry I forgot to mention what it was but the ROM Hack I mentioned was not for Eggrobo/Metal Robotnik but for something different.
I have made a slight trailer to it. But it's way more than incomplete. First of all there is only the normal sonic 3 zones but I will work on the Sonic & Knuckles Zones including Sandopolis Zone before Mushroom Hill Zone/Mushroom Forest Zone. However Sandopolis Zone is one of the most mysterious zones ever because even in the oldest prototype found so far (being the october prototype) the music is pretty much exactly the same and the level difference is weird in the original game there is just garbage data, but in the prototype the garbage data chunks are placed differently (probably a very old leftover) but still no objects aside from the sandopolis act 1 miniboss with it's graphics removed and not having a palette for it. Sandopolis Zone also had from what I know, no changes at all since the s3c 0408 prototype including the palette colors for acts 1 and 2 so, so far the only thing that I can conclude to sandopolis zone is leaving it the exact same as the one from sonic & knuckles including lava reef zone act 1. See you later with the trailer.
Well I'm about to show a very early demo of this prototype recreation.
Can this be applied to a vanilla s3&k rom and work on real hardware?
Yes, you need a game genie for
it to work.
Is there any news to when Sonic 3C delta part 2 releases?
There are no plans for this currently. Development has stopped.
Hi
Hello.
Very epik
Thank you!
@@SilverSonic1992 ur welcome:)
so i just added the doomsday discord server to my list
does getting verified take *84 GOD DAMN YEARS* because thats what it feels like😒💢
The rules tell you what you need to do to be verified.
@@SilverSonic1992 well i didn't really see any #verification channel so idrk whats happening
@@titaniumex2556 What's your tag?
@@SilverSonic1992 @Kaiden The Windows User 2022#8044
@@titaniumex2556 You have been verified.