Another great story Paul, you've got 2025 off to a flyer. I hope the lovely low winter sun made up for the obvious frosty trek. Oh, and best of luck with the new studios.
Hi Paul, that looked cold!! Thats a lot of very unfamiliar names to take in. The Dark ages are beginning to appear from the shadows!! Gonna have to watch it again methinks!! As always enjoyable to see your enthusiasm on the move. Looks like your grand studio opening was a great success yesterday. Wish you both good luck with this. All the best!!
As a Hwiccan it's nice to see my home region's history get a brief mention. It's worth noting that Cirencester was a provincial capital and the second largest city in Roman Britain. It was probably the seat of power of Ambrosius Aurelianus around the time of the Battle of Badon. However, it was the tradition of Celtic Kings to divide their kingdoms up between male heirs which is probably why there were three kings, one for each city, by 577. Cirencester was utterly destroyed after this battle. While the Gewisse/West Saxons conquered the Dobunni lands, the English settlers were Angles as you mention. The Hwiccan territory extended up into Worcestershire. The region played host to the unification of England. Guthrum retreated to Cirencester after being defeated by Alfred and the later treaty would give western Mercia to him.
Thank you for saying that! I'm from the Black Country and parts of that were Hwicce, but no one ever mentions that. Whychbury Hill is self explanatory. The Hill Burgh of the Hwicce. yet that is only a few miles from Birmingham. It also included parts of modern day Warwickshire, and Herefordshire.
Gildas got many dates,years kings ect all wrong welsh kings at the time and angle kings of mercia tell us this , same with bede , the local tribes were Cornovii north welsh area and Dobunni to the south both had hill forts both tribes went into the west midland areas of today , the Hwicce did have strong like with the Dobunni , but remember there were many angle tribes mixed in the west welsh border lines and west midlands , the old enclave of Halesowen/Quinton were salop many areas like this were from manors of 10th cent are links to old kindom areas Mercia its self was a kingdom of many kingdoms , your seat of power was more like to be the Viroconium Cornoviorum (Wroxeter), and the only British tribe to have a roman Legion. Cohors Primae Cornoviorum ?
@@hogwashmcturnip8930 The Wrekin, Wychbury Ring, Castle Ring, battle ring are all Cornovii , the name links are from angle tribes from differnt areas we have many the same in Staffordshire with y in spelling some have changed over time Lyccidfeld and Humeruuich, both old angle and penn-crug, old brythonic
I'm struck by how an entire kingdom (though, that word can change some in meaning in 1,000 years) can vanish from time with nothing but a few words to remember it by. Makes one wonder how many kingdoms have come and gone with no words to recall them at all. Love your adventures!
Your content is predictably well presented, informative, well written, filmed with true quality and entertaining. I so appreciate being the beneficiary of all the hard work by your team and yourself
in the past couple of years you have shone a light on the Dark Ages. keep it up, I find it very interesting how the Britons and Angles/Saxons/Jutes etc got on.
Ooh wow! Now this was epic to watch, thank you Paul for the education on the Wessex battles and of course for the inspiring and educational video! Our history is so bloody vast and interesting, appreciate your time and your video!
Thank you Paul, what a fantastic film. Last summer I walked this area investigating the hill forts of Little Sodbury, Old Sodbury and Dyrham, the history and landscape are fascinating. You have added so much detail to what is often considered a dark age of history.
It's fairly clear that the 3 early 'Kings' were in fact just the head men of the 3 cities mentioned, & that they would have used different titles themselves to indicate this. The A S Chronicle just classed any leaders, even quit petty ones, as Kings. It's also interesting that these 3 'divisions' of the area of the Hwicce seem to continue into the times of Offa, & maybe later. This all seems to suggest a continuation, in some form, of the Roman era Civitas of the Dobunni people, perhaps as individual 'City states', based around each of these important settlements. Indeed each of them will surely have had it's local 'territorium' surrounding it, from which it drew it's food supplies & other resources. This also indicates that a territory, or even a larger Kingdom might pass under control of a force that conquers the forces of a leader, even in a single battle, but that territory will not became part of the winners holdings without continued efforts to assert that control, & may revert to previous independence if another battle goes against them. A single battle is rarely full conquest, but must indicate a protracted struggle, likely both before & after the actual recorded engagement. Even the battle of Hastings was not a simple singular 'conquest' event, though often portrayed as such, but one of a series of engagements of the year 1066. Then, even after that 'victory', William of Normandy had to fight several more campaigns before he gained control of England.
I've heard Condidan might be Cyndylan of Powys Pengwern. And the others potentially other kings from south/mid Wales. Thats not to say the Cyndylan was definitely there just his name might have been applied to the battle. Personally the way the names are splet looks kinds Irish to me and there were Irish kings in south Wales at a similar time.
I loved the join message guys, wonderful...I'm trying to persuade a recent guest of yours to do similar ... He merely replies ''he'll look to it'' ...Have a word Paul mate. 🤣
Great story Paul, although you had me scratching my head on _precisely_ where you were talking about, but the M4 below the escarpment and the wind turbine gave it all away. A history I had no knowledge of. Thank you … again. A _beautifully_ filmed ❤
Have you considered making a collab with Cambrian chronicles? Because lost kingdoms is right up his ally. Maybe something about Penda and his Welsh allies, it is an interesting subject and seems closely related to the Stafford-shire hoard. Cambrian is great with looking on historical texts while you have a more hands on approach. I do find this very interesting, the early Saxon period in general is one of my favorite parts of history (I'm Swedish). We are stuck with sources like Gildas, Bede, Nennius and the Anglo Saxon chronicles (particularly the Mercian register for this area) but only Gildas was writing in the actual period and as a Briton, he wasn't very found of Saxons and generally thought of them as heathen barbarians. Bede had a kind of weird almost man crush on Penda though, while he certainly was not a fan of Pendas religious ideas, he also seems to have a lot of respect for the man who killed 4 other kings in battle and ruled for a very long time. I like the direction of this channel, I like old railroads as much as the next guy but this is on another level, great work. 😀
Thanks Paul. What a fascinating period and destined to always be mysterious. Seeing the Angles down there, with their Northumbrian sounding names. Lovely filming conditions and how Romanised was that fort. Cheers.
I paused for a couple of minutes on the Old English at 0:45 where they were talking about where they conquered and tried to see how much I could decipher. I got Cirencester straight away, and Gloucester after thinking about it. I don't think I would have guessed Bath for 'Bapanceaster', even if I'd spent longer trying to work it out. But it seems kinda obvious with the benefit of hindsight. It's one of the most notable Roman towns in the same region, and maybe 'Bapan' is related to the German 'Bad' which usually refers to natural baths and springs in place names. I also feel smug for thinking the Little Sodbury hillfort looked suspiciously Roman before the reveal that the Romans built on it after they conquered it, although I think a lot of other viewers probably noticed that too.
All this type of content starts with extensive research in Libraries - something that even most people of limited mobility can be involved in. Armed with some newly found obscure fact gleaned from an old document you can send out the field battalions.
In 1066 Harold II Godwine replaced his brother Tosig in Northumbria with the brother of the earl of Mercia Edwin Hwicce with Morcar Hwicce. so the family stayed important up until the end of the Anglo-saxon period.
As someone from Gloucester, who also has an interest in Dark Ages history and dialect, there's an interesting observation I've made which I haven't really seen talked about in a lot of detail- Through to the modern day, Gloucestershire has retained a West Country accent, but more interestingly the dialect- which is West Saxon in origin, just the same as Somerset, Devon, Dorset etc. However the further north you go, into Worcestershire, there's a very clear and obvious shift towards a Midlands accent and dialect. To me, I think this could be a clear connection to the history of the Hwicce- conquered originally by West Saxons, then later by Mercia, and as you say in this video, with Angles settling in the north of the Kingdom and Saxons in the south- the more Anglian influenced north of the Hwicce and the more Saxon south, seems to me to be reflected to this day in the border between Gloucestershire and Worcestershire, around the Malvern Hills and North Cotswolds, which would serve as a fairly natural barrier between the two halves of the kingdom. This also can even be seen to this day in the official regions of England- where Gloucestershire (and Bristol and Bath, which also were in Hwicce territory) are in the South West region and have a clear cultural identity to match, whereas Worcestershire sits firmly in the West Midlands. I'm not an academic by any means just very interested in both local history and my own dialect and these are just some observations I've made in my own research.
By 600AD the Saxons were trying to cross the ford at Tintern on the Wye into Gwent from the Forest of Dean, but Tewdrig (the retired king of Gwent) defeated them but was mortally wounded and was buried in Mathern near Chepstow. This held the line until those pesky Normans turned up some 400 years later.
Paul, you did the 'Hwicce'! If I new how to post a 'selfie' you would see a very big smile. Thank you. (The last time I saw so much white stuff underfoot was when my bean-bag burst).
I often think whilst watching your wanderings, I would love to visit that and see for myself. Some I have been to in the past. Many I haven't. Long way to come from Oz these days. And I don't even have a passport. Enjoyable seeing them through your camera.
@10:59 '[A]nd of course the Hwicce Heritage now falls out of use completely' No, Paul, surely they advised me on the purchase of the Best Airfryer of 2024 only last month. No lineage truly fades, they just live on in society's undergrowth. Great video - I can testify that it's just as bloody cold up North!
Love for you to come to Scotland and try to unearth the truth of Old King Coel being in Ayrshire. That's a crazy legend centred on Coilsfield near to Tarbolton.
Interesting presentation Paul-A great deal of research must have been applied to this ? The river Avon was a significant factor in the perceived strength of the area along with the Severn - The Saxon charter is always a controversial aspect, as written later than events and always a promotional document from the faithful for Royalty . This also was not seen by anyone not in a position of power now read interpreted and freely available we tend to forget this -Anyway all this aside your point was communicated and interesting-I have posted this on my FB History group 👍
I've been fascinated by this for years now so thank you for doing a video on it. I'm pretty sure that Hwicce is the reason that Wychwood was called that, having once covered a much larger part of this area ... and the fact that the similarly fated Winchcombeshire covered something of a similar area seems too much of a coincidence to me. Knowing that part of the country very well, it still retains a kind of unusual identity.
Excellent film, Paul, adding to my patchy knowledge of the Hwiccan's history. Lovely footage of the Severn Valley in all of its frosted, sunlit glory. From an etymological point of view, I notice that the area known as the "Three Counties" - Gloucestershire, Worcestershire, Herefordshire - still corresponds approximately to most of the ancient geographical territory, with the title "Wych(e)" forming part of many local place names, although OE "wych = brine spring" might also refer to the salt springs found in North Worcestershire. It is suggested that the name "Hwicce" derives from the Brittonic "Hᴔwïkk" meaning "most excellent" (Coates 2013) - although that may have been a dynastic title rather than a description of its peoples. Other possible etymologies are from OE hwicce = "chest, ark" referring to the flat bottomed Severn Valley, or "cauldron" relating to a Dobunni goddess called "Mater Dobunna" who bore a sacred vessel. Thanks for sharing such a well researched and neatly presented summary 👍
And to the west of Hwicce was the "kingdom" of Ergyng, or Archenfield, containing on it's very Eastern edge, Ariconium a sight of early Iron working, and just to the north of that site, two field names containing the phrase Kill Dane. Thank you, Paul, a wonderful show.
Excellent video, I am glad you did add add text to it. I was really questioning whether I had heard you correctly with the names of the Dobunni tribe and Hwicce. I wonder if any archaeological teams from any of the Universities will do a LIDAR check to see if they can find out where the battle was.
I know your memory is fresh from research (and probably notes, too) but I wish I could remember the details of history better. Would make for a better conversation than "thingy begat thingy who married thingy of the wosnames who went to war with matey from the Jive Bunny tribe and that's how we ended up with biscuits". I take my hat off to you (as always) on another fascinating video. And yeah, Old Sodbury is a pretty spot. 🙏Thank you
Second that, and perhaps playing to each other’s strengths, a discussion about the far West, Dumnonia and the Cornovii, with references from Welsh literature about the latter.
Gerald Gardner, the founder of modern Wicca, is said to have taken it from Hwicce, which allegedly meant "Wise ones" It has been suggested that the Hwicce were a Shamanic tribe, which could explain why they were never fully subsumed until Christianity took hold. Then again, I have seen it translated as "Stupid!" but that would fit too, if you were trying to discredit something or someone. There are certainly a lot of modern-day links, but how far these are true, or how far back they go is anyone's guess. Most of what passes for "witchcraft" now, is pure 20th Century invention. But don't tell the Harry Potters, they get Very upset! They have to watch all their Sabrina videos again, just to regain equilibrium!
I've always visualised the battle as taking place on the ridge-road (now mostly the A46), perhaps where it's crossed by the road from Chippenham (A420) or one of the connected, now minor, roads - rather than at the hill-fort or the modern village. That would still put it in the *vicinity* of Dyrham, close enough for naming a battle 300 years later (c.f. Bosworth, which was about the same distance from the field of combat). Perhaps it was just the closest place of importance or significance at that time.
In Gloucester we think King Arthur may be based on a local Romano British Christian leader who held off the Saxons at Bredon Hill and won peace that lasted until 577.
Hi Paul. Question on pronounciation. I see it's already been mentioned re. Hwicce as you pronounce 'H-Wich'. I am uncertain that the 'ch' sound existed in spoken language much before the medieval period, certainly not in the Iron age when we are told 'cc' is a hard 'C', and the 'H' is not pronounced at all. This leaves us with 'wic' because it's the 'e' that further emphasis the hard 'C'. So the area could be defined as simply 'viccus'. Which gives us the Roman ID for an administrative centre. From the comments, the name 'wytch' 'wynch' etc. appears to be reflected throughout the area, which suggests this was a hugely important long lived administrative centre. This is how we unravel our unwritten history. You do a great job of raising awareness of our ancient past. These are the clues the academics miss.
I've metal detected a lot of the Land below the hill foot at old Sodbury, and I never found any Iron Age coins. However, I have found Bronze Age knife fragments
Wonderful presentation, mate. The history of the flux that occurred after theLegends left as always interested me. I still hold out hope that there was an Arthur that he was some sort of commander of horse, not a king but a son of British Roman aristocracy
You missed that Cerdic, Cynric and Ceawlin are all British names. Even the first king of the "West Saxons" instead of the previous Gewisse, retained a British name.
@@pwhitewick the consensus now seems to be limited migration and a cultural transition. In the West there were Irish invasions, in Wales as well as Scotland, tribunes and retired Gothic officers in the roman army who governed their own little post roman principalities. In the East growing anglicization of kingdoms first set up as British, but which looked to the Germanic continent for prestige culture. In reality the actual migrants came from coastal Frisian lands battered by storms and subsidence (coastal alluvial land compresses under its own weight and will submerge over time if not continuously supplemented by new deposits), but Saxony is adjacent and much bigger. Bernice, Deira, Gewisse, Kent etc. retained a degree of Celtic identity during the period of anglicization, even more so in the Celtic North which adopted their own version of Northumbrian English despite uninterrupted Celtic rule. The Scottish example is probably applicable in the South - incoming warrior leaders gained favor and lands from local princes in return for military service, in Scotland with both Anglians in the 6th and 7 th C., and Normans such as the Bruce's in the 11th and 12th. No hostile takeover required. Maybe marry the king's daughter or get adopted as his successor.
Take Kimble as an example. It's recorded in Saxon as Cynebellingas for the inhabitants. In Saxon it's meaningless but very much like Celtic Cunobellinos that it is probably a later development (chronological objections are meaningless, names are handed down and repeated
English: spoken today as Ing -L-iSh. Angles: spoken then as Ang-L-eS. The only changes over 1,000 years have been the front vowel mutation from A to E to I and in the strengthening in the aspiration of the final S sound toward a full 'Sh' that we have today.
A very attractive video indeed. The battle of 577 is credible. The names of the three British kings are authentic, and it is the case that Gloucestershire and adjoining areas became Anglicised from about then. Apart from archeology, place names indicate it.
Greetings! I'm just curious about your pronunciation of Leicester: Here in Massachusetts we still pronounce it as "Lester", as did our Pilgrim ancestors. (Same as "Wooster", as opposed to Worcester.)
Paul is an excellent amateur historian with amazing video production skills. I really enjoy his content. But he isn’t and wouldn’t claim to be, a professional historian or archaeologist, which is what you need to be if you’re on tv. This is the perfect platform for him. Besides, the BBC or any other channel would control and sanitise his output, thus ruining it.
There is so much uncertainty over the Kingdom of the Hwicce. Some academics suggest a Northumbrian element, which is quite possible given the names of the early kings. A very strong British element survived as has been shown by recent DNA studies . There is quite a likelihood that pagan influences were quite limited and some suggest that it was not occupied by the Saxons, in the aftermath of Dyrham, just raided. It has been suggested that the River Little Avon was the northern limit of the area actually occupied by the West Saxons. I think it is generally accepted that the part of Gloucestershire bounded by the Severn and the Leadon was not part of the kingdom of the Hwicce but part of the Maegonsaete - another enigmatic small kingdom of uncertain origin. Hopefully, soon we will have really clear DNA data that will show exactly who the people of this kingdom were - the survival of the welsh language at least west of the Severn until the 17th century probably gives an indication for one area of Gloucestershire
The Hwicce are a fascinating subject, a group of people who turn up, might be related to early Wessex and have Celtic names. However, I do find the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle description of the battle of Dyrham to be a bit implausible. A leader walks into a territory surrounded by three cities and says something like "Come and take me if you think your hard enough". More likely the saxons were allied with one of the British factions, probably the Gloucester/Cirencester one, during a bit of inter-British post Roman strife (which gets us back to Wansdyke). Also, is there any evidence that Bath was taken? I thought the saxon breakthrough over the river Avon was in the 650s with the taking of Bradford on Avon and they quickly marched down to the Somerset levels. Glastonbury was in Saxon hands by about 660. So if they had taken Bath in 577, the Hwicce dawdled for another 80 years (although maybe the mighty Wansdyke kept them at bay).
This is what the Internet should be used for. Education and thought. Love your videos.
Thanks Jon
Agree
Joined years ago for the train stations. Stayed for the history lessons. I watch from the other side of the planet and am fascinated every week.
Kiwi?
You’re not the only one
Ditto, Kiwi here. Fascinated by the history, and of course the excellent narration and storytelling.
@@richardhyland4610 Aus
Another great story Paul, you've got 2025 off to a flyer. I hope the lovely low winter sun made up for the obvious frosty trek. Oh, and best of luck with the new studios.
Well researched and the narration is superb. Excellent work Paul.
Many thanks!
2:47 - my father delighted in calling it a "foul swoop". As do I. I sometimes call it a "foul sweep".
It is in fact a "fell swoop".
I kinda liked "foul swoop" in this instance, too...
Hi Paul, that looked cold!!
Thats a lot of very unfamiliar names to take in. The Dark ages are beginning to appear from the shadows!! Gonna have to watch it again methinks!!
As always enjoyable to see your enthusiasm on the move.
Looks like your grand studio opening was a great success yesterday. Wish you both good luck with this.
All the best!!
Frosty, beautifully filmed and crammed with interesting history.
As a Hwiccan it's nice to see my home region's history get a brief mention.
It's worth noting that Cirencester was a provincial capital and the second largest city in Roman Britain. It was probably the seat of power of Ambrosius Aurelianus around the time of the Battle of Badon. However, it was the tradition of Celtic Kings to divide their kingdoms up between male heirs which is probably why there were three kings, one for each city, by 577. Cirencester was utterly destroyed after this battle.
While the Gewisse/West Saxons conquered the Dobunni lands, the English settlers were Angles as you mention. The Hwiccan territory extended up into Worcestershire.
The region played host to the unification of England. Guthrum retreated to Cirencester after being defeated by Alfred and the later treaty would give western Mercia to him.
Thank you for saying that! I'm from the Black Country and parts of that were Hwicce, but no one ever mentions that. Whychbury Hill is self explanatory. The Hill Burgh of the Hwicce. yet that is only a few miles from Birmingham. It also included parts of modern day Warwickshire, and Herefordshire.
Gildas got many dates,years kings ect all wrong welsh kings at the time and angle kings of mercia tell us this , same with bede , the local tribes were Cornovii north welsh area and Dobunni to the south both had hill forts both tribes went into the west midland areas of today , the Hwicce did have strong like with the Dobunni , but remember there were many angle tribes mixed in the west welsh border lines and west midlands , the old enclave of Halesowen/Quinton were salop many areas like this were from manors of 10th cent are links to old kindom areas Mercia its self was a kingdom of many kingdoms , your seat of power was more like to be the Viroconium Cornoviorum (Wroxeter), and the only British tribe to have a roman Legion. Cohors Primae Cornoviorum ?
@@hogwashmcturnip8930 The Wrekin, Wychbury Ring, Castle Ring, battle ring are all Cornovii , the name links are from angle tribes from differnt areas we have many the same in Staffordshire with y in spelling some have changed over time Lyccidfeld and Humeruuich, both old angle and penn-crug, old brythonic
@@davidbaker9537 I am not talking about Wychbury Ring. Also Iron age and Saxon are different timescales?
I really look forward to Sundays and your inspiring videos. Thanks for all the work you put into them for us.
Can't beat a neat and tidy hillfort! This is an area that I pass through often but am yet to explore. Interesting video, thanks Paul.
I'm struck by how an entire kingdom (though, that word can change some in meaning in 1,000 years) can vanish from time with nothing but a few words to remember it by. Makes one wonder how many kingdoms have come and gone with no words to recall them at all. Love your adventures!
Your content is predictably well presented, informative, well written, filmed with true quality and entertaining. I so appreciate being the beneficiary of all the hard work by your team and yourself
Thank you. Very kind.
in the past couple of years you have shone a light on the Dark Ages. keep it up, I find it very interesting how the Britons and Angles/Saxons/Jutes etc got on.
Ooh wow! Now this was epic to watch, thank you Paul for the education on the Wessex battles and of course for the inspiring and educational video! Our history is so bloody vast and interesting, appreciate your time and your video!
Lovely images and camera work. As usual a great story, thank you Paul.
Many thanks!
These are fantastic aerial shots! Really makes sense of the landscape.
Well done Paul. So much information, will have to rewatch, maybe several times, to get all the dates joined up in my head! Just love stuff like this.
Thank you Paul, what a fantastic film. Last summer I walked this area investigating the hill forts of Little Sodbury, Old Sodbury and Dyrham, the history and landscape are fascinating. You have added so much detail to what is often considered a dark age of history.
It's fairly clear that the 3 early 'Kings' were in fact just the head men of the 3 cities mentioned, & that they would have used different titles themselves to indicate this. The A S Chronicle just classed any leaders, even quit petty ones, as Kings. It's also interesting that these 3 'divisions' of the area of the Hwicce seem to continue into the times of Offa, & maybe later. This all seems to suggest a continuation, in some form, of the Roman era Civitas of the Dobunni people, perhaps as individual 'City states', based around each of these important settlements. Indeed each of them will surely have had it's local 'territorium' surrounding it, from which it drew it's food supplies & other resources. This also indicates that a territory, or even a larger Kingdom might pass under control of a force that conquers the forces of a leader, even in a single battle, but that territory will not became part of the winners holdings without continued efforts to assert that control, & may revert to previous independence if another battle goes against them. A single battle is rarely full conquest, but must indicate a protracted struggle, likely both before & after the actual recorded engagement. Even the battle of Hastings was not a simple singular 'conquest' event, though often portrayed as such, but one of a series of engagements of the year 1066. Then, even after that 'victory', William of Normandy had to fight several more campaigns before he gained control of England.
William built his Mott & Bailey forts (originally timber post walls) entirely because the locals were not being nice.
I've heard Condidan might be Cyndylan of Powys Pengwern. And the others potentially other kings from south/mid Wales.
Thats not to say the Cyndylan was definitely there just his name might have been applied to the battle.
Personally the way the names are splet looks kinds Irish to me and there were Irish kings in south Wales at a similar time.
Well told story -- and beautiful countryside.
I loved the join message guys, wonderful...I'm trying to persuade a recent guest of yours to do similar ... He merely replies ''he'll look to it'' ...Have a word Paul mate. 🤣
In this salt mine called UA-cam its always a joy to find the odd Dimond hidden amongst the rough, a pleasure as always Paul.
Great story Paul, although you had me scratching my head on _precisely_ where you were talking about, but the M4 below the escarpment and the wind turbine gave it all away. A history I had no knowledge of. Thank you … again. A _beautifully_ filmed ❤
Thanks
Have you considered making a collab with Cambrian chronicles? Because lost kingdoms is right up his ally. Maybe something about Penda and his Welsh allies, it is an interesting subject and seems closely related to the Stafford-shire hoard. Cambrian is great with looking on historical texts while you have a more hands on approach.
I do find this very interesting, the early Saxon period in general is one of my favorite parts of history (I'm Swedish). We are stuck with sources like Gildas, Bede, Nennius and the Anglo Saxon chronicles (particularly the Mercian register for this area) but only Gildas was writing in the actual period and as a Briton, he wasn't very found of Saxons and generally thought of them as heathen barbarians.
Bede had a kind of weird almost man crush on Penda though, while he certainly was not a fan of Pendas religious ideas, he also seems to have a lot of respect for the man who killed 4 other kings in battle and ruled for a very long time.
I like the direction of this channel, I like old railroads as much as the next guy but this is on another level, great work. 😀
Thanks Paul. What a fascinating period and destined to always be mysterious. Seeing the Angles down there, with their Northumbrian sounding names.
Lovely filming conditions and how Romanised was that fort. Cheers.
I paused for a couple of minutes on the Old English at 0:45 where they were talking about where they conquered and tried to see how much I could decipher. I got Cirencester straight away, and Gloucester after thinking about it. I don't think I would have guessed Bath for 'Bapanceaster', even if I'd spent longer trying to work it out. But it seems kinda obvious with the benefit of hindsight. It's one of the most notable Roman towns in the same region, and maybe 'Bapan' is related to the German 'Bad' which usually refers to natural baths and springs in place names.
I also feel smug for thinking the Little Sodbury hillfort looked suspiciously Roman before the reveal that the Romans built on it after they conquered it, although I think a lot of other viewers probably noticed that too.
I grew up in an area governed by Wychavon district council. Seemed a strange name to me, and now I know where it came from.
Fascinating history to think about! Thank you for sharing this story with everyone. I will rewatch it several times .
Yet another great and educational video Paul! Keep on!
I want to express my gratitude for your videos since I am disabled and unable to visit the places you showcase.
Thanks Gary. It's a pleasure to make them
All this type of content starts with extensive research in Libraries - something that even most people of limited mobility can be involved in. Armed with some newly found obscure fact gleaned from an old document you can send out the field battalions.
Fascinating! Love these lessons! This is brilliantly scripted and edited too. Excellent work 👌🏼
Very interesting video again Paul . Impressive looking Hill fort.
another great video Paul, I have often stopped at Old Sodbury when heading North from Somerset
In 1066 Harold II Godwine replaced his brother Tosig in Northumbria with the brother of the earl of Mercia Edwin Hwicce with Morcar Hwicce. so the family stayed important up until the end of the Anglo-saxon period.
That was TERRIFIC. Chock full of facts with great photography. It makes me want to learn more about the area and it's history.
MORE please! 😊😊😊😊😊
As someone from Gloucester, who also has an interest in Dark Ages history and dialect, there's an interesting observation I've made which I haven't really seen talked about in a lot of detail-
Through to the modern day, Gloucestershire has retained a West Country accent, but more interestingly the dialect- which is West Saxon in origin, just the same as Somerset, Devon, Dorset etc.
However the further north you go, into Worcestershire, there's a very clear and obvious shift towards a Midlands accent and dialect.
To me, I think this could be a clear connection to the history of the Hwicce- conquered originally by West Saxons, then later by Mercia, and as you say in this video, with Angles settling in the north of the Kingdom and Saxons in the south- the more Anglian influenced north of the Hwicce and the more Saxon south, seems to me to be reflected to this day in the border between Gloucestershire and Worcestershire, around the Malvern Hills and North Cotswolds, which would serve as a fairly natural barrier between the two halves of the kingdom.
This also can even be seen to this day in the official regions of England- where Gloucestershire (and Bristol and Bath, which also were in Hwicce territory) are in the South West region and have a clear cultural identity to match, whereas Worcestershire sits firmly in the West Midlands.
I'm not an academic by any means just very interested in both local history and my own dialect and these are just some observations I've made in my own research.
By 600AD the Saxons were trying to cross the ford at Tintern on the Wye into Gwent from the Forest of Dean, but Tewdrig (the retired king of Gwent) defeated them but was mortally wounded and was buried in Mathern near Chepstow. This held the line until those pesky Normans turned up some 400 years later.
Normanes eunt domus!
Paul, you did the 'Hwicce'! If I new how to post a 'selfie' you would see a very big smile. Thank you. (The last time I saw so much white stuff underfoot was when my bean-bag burst).
This my favorite channel.
Weyhey
I often think whilst watching your wanderings, I would love to visit that and see for myself. Some I have been to in the past. Many I haven't. Long way to come from Oz these days. And I don't even have a passport. Enjoyable seeing them through your camera.
I always enjoy these videos on Sunday. I could watch documentaries from you lol. Great work
@10:59 '[A]nd of course the Hwicce Heritage now falls out of use completely' No, Paul, surely they advised me on the purchase of the Best Airfryer of 2024 only last month. No lineage truly fades, they just live on in society's undergrowth. Great video - I can testify that it's just as bloody cold up North!
Thank you for jam packed video, learned much!
Great work Paul, really enjoy your films.
Love for you to come to Scotland and try to unearth the truth of Old King Coel being in Ayrshire. That's a crazy legend centred on Coilsfield near to Tarbolton.
Interesting presentation Paul-A great deal of research must have been applied to this ? The river Avon was a significant factor in the perceived strength of the area along with the Severn - The Saxon charter is always a controversial aspect, as written later than events and always a promotional document from the faithful for Royalty . This also was not seen by anyone not in a position of power now read interpreted and freely available we tend to forget this -Anyway all this aside your point was communicated and interesting-I have posted this on my FB History group 👍
Thanks James
Good fun watching and learning 😉🇨🇦
That was TERRIFIC. Chock full of facts and fantastic photography. I just want to learn more about the area and it's history..more PLEASE! 😊😊😊😊
Thank you.
Welcome!
😊 no place like home.
Great video, thanks Paul 👍
Note in the foreground the "Strip Lynchets" at 1 minute 47 seconds. The best views of them are from Dyrham Park, a National Trust property.
I want to hear more about the Dough Bunnies.
They were defeated in one Foul Swoop. They clearly had no Referees then
Just watched it again. Superb.
I've been fascinated by this for years now so thank you for doing a video on it. I'm pretty sure that Hwicce is the reason that Wychwood was called that, having once covered a much larger part of this area ... and the fact that the similarly fated Winchcombeshire covered something of a similar area seems too much of a coincidence to me. Knowing that part of the country very well, it still retains a kind of unusual identity.
Thanks for this video. Really interesting stuff again 😊
I have just come home from local Wassailing, I hope you-all have had the chance to do similar! And here's a new video! Not a bad day.
Excellent film, Paul, adding to my patchy knowledge of the Hwiccan's history. Lovely footage of the Severn Valley in all of its frosted, sunlit glory.
From an etymological point of view, I notice that the area known as the "Three Counties" - Gloucestershire, Worcestershire, Herefordshire - still corresponds approximately to most of the ancient geographical territory, with the title "Wych(e)" forming part of many local place names, although OE "wych = brine spring" might also refer to the salt springs found in North Worcestershire. It is suggested that the name "Hwicce" derives from the Brittonic "Hᴔwïkk" meaning "most excellent" (Coates 2013) - although that may have been a dynastic title rather than a description of its peoples. Other possible etymologies are from OE hwicce = "chest, ark" referring to the flat bottomed Severn Valley, or "cauldron" relating to a Dobunni goddess called "Mater Dobunna" who bore a sacred vessel.
Thanks for sharing such a well researched and neatly presented summary 👍
Awesome work Sir, I must admit I did vote for this, and I am glad I did!
Thank you very much!
My very most favorite era and area, thank you so much!! More Wessex please!! 😁❤
Well made, informative and entertaining. Thank you very much.
Love the Wallace and Gromit reference - "Neat and Tidy". 😂
And to the west of Hwicce was the "kingdom" of Ergyng, or Archenfield, containing on it's very Eastern edge, Ariconium a sight of early Iron working, and just to the north of that site, two field names containing the phrase Kill Dane.
Thank you, Paul, a wonderful show.
Beautiful and interesting documentary. Thank-you
Thank you
Excellent video Paul, really enjoyed it. 👌
Thank you
Excellent video, I am glad you did add add text to it. I was really questioning whether I had heard you correctly with the names of the Dobunni tribe and Hwicce. I wonder if any archaeological teams from any of the Universities will do a LIDAR check to see if they can find out where the battle was.
I feel we sadly might be many years from find any evidence!
Neat and tidy! Norbot’s been in!
I know your memory is fresh from research (and probably notes, too) but I wish I could remember the details of history better. Would make for a better conversation than "thingy begat thingy who married thingy of the wosnames who went to war with matey from the Jive Bunny tribe and that's how we ended up with biscuits".
I take my hat off to you (as always) on another fascinating video. And yeah, Old Sodbury is a pretty spot.
🙏Thank you
Would love you and Cambrian Chronicles to do a video together.
That would be cool!
Second that, and perhaps playing to each other’s strengths, a discussion about the far West, Dumnonia and the Cornovii, with references from Welsh literature about the latter.
Excellent and interesting video 👍🏻
Thank you - a very interesting account of the rise and fall of the Anglo-Saxon Kingdom of Hwicce.
Amazing story telling. An absorbing watch. What a wonderfully intriguing name the Hwicce. Any link to Witchcraft?
I'd love to know. There are a few guesses but that's all we havr
Gerald Gardner, the founder of modern Wicca, is said to have taken it from Hwicce, which allegedly meant "Wise ones" It has been suggested that the Hwicce were a Shamanic tribe, which could explain why they were never fully subsumed until Christianity took hold. Then again, I have seen it translated as "Stupid!" but that would fit too, if you were trying to discredit something or someone. There are certainly a lot of modern-day links, but how far these are true, or how far back they go is anyone's guess. Most of what passes for "witchcraft" now, is pure 20th Century invention. But don't tell the Harry Potters, they get Very upset! They have to watch all their Sabrina videos again, just to regain equilibrium!
Great video Paul.
I've always visualised the battle as taking place on the ridge-road (now mostly the A46), perhaps where it's crossed by the road from Chippenham (A420) or one of the connected, now minor, roads - rather than at the hill-fort or the modern village. That would still put it in the *vicinity* of Dyrham, close enough for naming a battle 300 years later (c.f. Bosworth, which was about the same distance from the field of combat). Perhaps it was just the closest place of importance or significance at that time.
Thanks for another amazing video.
Thanks for watching!
Nice to see my ancient relative(?) Ealdred mentioned in this history lesson. 🏴🏴
In Gloucester we think King Arthur may be based on a local Romano British Christian leader who held off the Saxons at Bredon Hill and won peace that lasted until 577.
Well, done. Thank you
Hi Paul. Question on pronounciation. I see it's already been mentioned re. Hwicce as you pronounce 'H-Wich'. I am uncertain that the 'ch' sound existed in spoken language much before the medieval period, certainly not in the Iron age when we are told 'cc' is a hard 'C', and the 'H' is not pronounced at all. This leaves us with 'wic' because it's the 'e' that further emphasis the hard 'C'. So the area could be defined as simply 'viccus'. Which gives us the Roman ID for an administrative centre. From the comments, the name 'wytch' 'wynch' etc. appears to be reflected throughout the area, which suggests this was a hugely important long lived administrative centre. This is how we unravel our unwritten history. You do a great job of raising awareness of our ancient past. These are the clues the academics miss.
Interesting....I live in the Malvern Hills, where there is a "Witch Cutting" of uncertain origin, maybee it should be 'Hwicce Cutting
Excellent episode mate! ⚔️😎👍⭐️
Am I right in thinking you will be talking to the Pre-history podcast soon? 👍⭐️😎⚔️
I've metal detected a lot of the Land below the hill foot at old Sodbury, and I never found any Iron Age coins. However, I have found Bronze Age knife fragments
Keep searching. The dobunni seemed to like their coins
Another great video. Thanks
Absolutely brilliant!
Wonderful presentation, mate. The history of the flux that occurred after theLegends left as always interested me. I still hold out hope that there was an Arthur that he was some sort of commander of horse, not a king but a son of British Roman aristocracy
Maybe one day we will know
5:28 Of Hwicce we speak 🙂
another excellent video Thank you
You missed that Cerdic, Cynric and Ceawlin are all British names. Even the first king of the "West Saxons" instead of the previous Gewisse, retained a British name.
Penda and Pybba of Mercia are also presumed to be British, as Saxon words beginning with P are of foreign origin.
But... were they British names to ensure that the heritage was seen as genuine. This is what Author Paul Harper believes.
@@pwhitewick the consensus now seems to be limited migration and a cultural transition. In the West there were Irish invasions, in Wales as well as Scotland, tribunes and retired Gothic officers in the roman army who governed their own little post roman principalities. In the East growing anglicization of kingdoms first set up as British, but which looked to the Germanic continent for prestige culture. In reality the actual migrants came from coastal Frisian lands battered by storms and subsidence (coastal alluvial land compresses under its own weight and will submerge over time if not continuously supplemented by new deposits), but Saxony is adjacent and much bigger. Bernice, Deira, Gewisse, Kent etc. retained a degree of Celtic identity during the period of anglicization, even more so in the Celtic North which adopted their own version of Northumbrian English despite uninterrupted Celtic rule. The Scottish example is probably applicable in the South - incoming warrior leaders gained favor and lands from local princes in return for military service, in Scotland with both Anglians in the 6th and 7 th C., and Normans such as the Bruce's in the 11th and 12th. No hostile takeover required. Maybe marry the king's daughter or get adopted as his successor.
Take Kimble as an example. It's recorded in Saxon as Cynebellingas for the inhabitants. In Saxon it's meaningless but very much like Celtic Cunobellinos that it is probably a later development (chronological objections are meaningless, names are handed down and repeated
Very interesting - thanks 😀
Paul, that was a great video of the hill forts, though my background does not allow me to follow you quickly.
I wish your vlogs were longer!
English: spoken today as Ing -L-iSh. Angles: spoken then as Ang-L-eS. The only changes over 1,000 years have been the front vowel mutation from A to E to I and in the strengthening in the aspiration of the final S sound toward a full 'Sh' that we have today.
Another great video Paul, it looked very cold but bright making this video?
A very attractive video indeed.
The battle of 577 is credible. The names of the three British kings are authentic, and it is the case that Gloucestershire and adjoining areas became Anglicised from about then. Apart from archeology, place names indicate it.
nice one again Paul thank you 😊
Greetings! I'm just curious about your pronunciation of Leicester: Here in Massachusetts we still pronounce it as "Lester", as did our Pilgrim ancestors. (Same as "Wooster", as opposed to Worcester.)
Yup, exactly that. Lester
Just fabulous, give this man a BBC TV show 🔥
Totally agree with you there tbh!
Allways Fabulous 👌 Allways Facinating.....Absolutely SHOULD have a show.
Paul is an excellent amateur historian with amazing video production skills. I really enjoy his content. But he isn’t and wouldn’t claim to be, a professional historian or archaeologist, which is what you need to be if you’re on tv. This is the perfect platform for him. Besides, the BBC or any other channel would control and sanitise his output, thus ruining it.
White man of a certain age getting a new show on the BBC? I think not.
No don't! The narrative wld become Alice Roberts' style diversity.
Lol, would love to see the 'do bunny' map and the 'witch' map mentioned in the subtitles!😂
There is so much uncertainty over the Kingdom of the Hwicce. Some academics suggest a Northumbrian element, which is quite possible given the names of the early kings. A very strong British element survived as has been shown by recent DNA studies . There is quite a likelihood that pagan influences were quite limited and some suggest that it was not occupied by the Saxons, in the aftermath of Dyrham, just raided. It has been suggested that the River Little Avon was the northern limit of the area actually occupied by the West Saxons. I think it is generally accepted that the part of Gloucestershire bounded by the Severn and the Leadon was not part of the kingdom of the Hwicce but part of the Maegonsaete - another enigmatic small kingdom of uncertain origin. Hopefully, soon we will have really clear DNA data that will show exactly who the people of this kingdom were - the survival of the welsh language at least west of the Severn until the 17th century probably gives an indication for one area of Gloucestershire
The Hwicce are a fascinating subject, a group of people who turn up, might be related to early Wessex and have Celtic names.
However, I do find the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle description of the battle of Dyrham to be a bit implausible. A leader walks into a territory surrounded by three cities and says something like "Come and take me if you think your hard enough". More likely the saxons were allied with one of the British factions, probably the Gloucester/Cirencester one, during a bit of inter-British post Roman strife (which gets us back to Wansdyke).
Also, is there any evidence that Bath was taken? I thought the saxon breakthrough over the river Avon was in the 650s with the taking of Bradford on Avon and they quickly marched down to the Somerset levels. Glastonbury was in Saxon hands by about 660. So if they had taken Bath in 577, the Hwicce dawdled for another 80 years (although maybe the mighty Wansdyke kept them at bay).