XC Racing Is TOO GNARLY Now? | Dirt Shed Show 485
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- On this week's GMBN Dirt Shed Show, Martyn Ashton is joined by Rich Payne to ask the question, is XC getting too gnarly?! Are modern Cross Country bikes evolving the courses, and can the riders keep up with the change in course design? Martyn also has a confession to make.. 🙈
Plus MTB News, Sickest Thing, Hacks And Bodges, Caption Contest, and Hacks And Bodges, plus some Super Nice bikes locked away in the Bike Vault!
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
00:00 - Intro
00:53 - Is XC Getting Too Gnarly?
09:40 - News
12:33 - Sickest Thing
13:29 - Back To The Shed
14:27 - Hacks And Bodges
18:11 - In The Comments
20:57 - Caption Contest
22:41 - Bike Vault
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What do you think of the evolution of XC? Do you think courses are getting too gnarly?
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What do you think of the evolution of XC? Do you think courses are getting too gnarly for the riders, or do you think it just makes the racing more exciting to watch?
Something about _cross_ country tells me race tracks must be ridable in all directions, like all ways across. But most importantly, wheels down, rider up.
still waiting on contact about my stunt mug from last DSS.
The rougher the better in my book
I run a 2021 Yeti A.R.C. with 120mm forks and NO dropper post for XC racing. Race results have been much better since I switched from a full-suspension Yeti ASR.
I dont know what its really supposed to look like, but I thought XC is supposed to be something amateur hardtail riders can ride, but the skill moreso comes from speed. Adding downhill features to an XC course doesnt really make sense to me, as theres downhill as well as enduro which somewhat bridges the gap between them. For me XC non racing encompasses lots of blue trails but also greens and access "gravel" roads, I refuse to have a dedicated gravel bike for access roads and also dont see any point in drop bars other than them being a tradition from road cycling thats been adopted for riding access roads.
I don’t think Tom Pidcock’s mountain bike skill comes from his road riding, I think it’s the other way round. His descending and climbing skill on the road is definitely from his mountain and cyclocross background.
Regardless, he’s an incredible talented rider and is doing absolutely smashing in everything he enters
Definitely a talented rider with great bike control on all bikes!
"Roadie" does not really fit Pidcock. He is riding road because the money is there. This lad is just a force of nature on anything "cycle".
Haha I totally agree tbf. He isn’t a roadie (and actually there’s nothing wrong with that). It’s just mad how much talent is packed in to one Dude.
Peter Sagan started in XC.
Pidcock is the male version of PFP, he's incredible on anything with 2 wheels and a set of pedals. Of course PFP pulled the hat track a couple years back, winning XCO, road and gravel world championships in the same year.
Definitely but he is also winning MTB races because he is training on the road. My fitness definitely increased when I bought a road bike.
A 'Roadie' is someone who only rides on the road; Pidcock is not a roadie - he mixes 3 disciplines.....and World class in all 3.
Martyn Ashton cracks me up lol 😆😆😆
I think the XC world cup courses are fine. These are the best XC riders in the world, the courses should be hard. If the course is too easy it just becomes a fitness contest. Crans Montana was particularly dicey this time because it was in the wet. The "timber garden" is literally something I've never seen before, not even in a bike park, they invented a new feature for XCO.
I would disagree that the riders weren't good enough because you had every rider in the front from Pidcock to Nino Schurter crashing as well.
Fair point.
When people fall in dh this convo is different. Were just not used to seeing people fall in xc, its changing now
Do you think the courses are getting too gnarly?
Not to gnarly, just maybe some mandatory safety equipment upgrades
@@gmbn I’d say that the “conditions” were gnarly with all those rain and mud.
That confession was hilarious 😂!!! Love Martyn , more random tandem please 🙏🏼
This was the first time XC was worth watching from start to finish. Great change, awesome course. Hope we see more like this.
I raced XC from '97-'05. IMO, the reality is the tech is just different. Almost all of the really gnar tech sections in XC these days are man-made features, so you can either roll them on the correct line or clear the jumps/drops with the right speed. The tech stuff today has the advantage of being well designed despite looking bad and creating a mental hurdle for the racers. The top riders are also all being guided by skills coaches. Compare it to 25 years ago and most XC courses were still natural rock gardens and root chutes as their most technical bits that had no flow, but on 26'er hardtail rim brake bikes with 1.95" tires and 60mm of travel. The tech back then just 'beat you up'. Just because people are crashing today doesn't mean they weren't crashing back then. The sport is just evolving, both courses and bikes.
I second that, i raced XC from '90 - '97 ish. We had bombholes in XC races still back then, which always separated the cyclocross riders from the mtbers
What you said about tech today “being well designed despite looking bad” really set in with me. I think that’s generally true, but maybe not at this race for those conditions.
Speak for yourself. I can’t even recall a crash during a race (I raced in the early 90s). I’m sure there were a few minor slideouts, but none bad enough to actually remember. And I was a descending demon who was ski racing during winter; so I was not holding back, AT ALL. Of course being a former street skater as well, I had balance skills and bike handling skills that were only matched by one other guy I knew. And he had the exact same background: street skater and ski racer. I only had a few minor crashes in my entire riding career. Did I mention I was racing in Alaska, where we have mud that’s far slicker than normal mud due to glacial silt?
I did go OTB off the side of a trail on a ride and did an almost complete front flip to land in a stand of willow (no damage to me or the bike; I was riding with old school road shoes and cleats and toe clips with double straps, so no way to get out of the pedals), but that was during my first two years and I hadn’t yet developed my skill base; and it wasn’t during a race. I really didn’t crash hardly at all. I always seemed to be able to stay upright in conditions where other people were crashing right and left. 🤷🏻♂️
@@keirfarnum6811 boast much?
I think it's good that the courses are becoming difficult. For quite a while now, XC has just been roadie-on-dirt. It's had the same obsession with grams and watts and the which energy gel gives the most joules per cubic millimetre. Lets see XC come back to being *mountain* biking.
agreed 👍
xc racers are going to need to wear enduro protection now. Full faces and chest protection
I think cross county is 100% turning more into trail riding racing which it should be. Not racing pavement and dirt roads that’s for the gravel bike racing.
I think its time for them to start wearing more protective gear. That lady going OTB looked gnarly.
Tom & Toff - back this week = happiness!
Cadel Evans went from being a mountain biker to winning the Tour de France
Rich must've taken Some edibles lol
About time they got back to being normal XC race track....more fun to watch, just like races in the early 90's. and the bikes are more capable.
its not the riders or the bikes that can't handle these tracks. Its the tires.
I think Martyn is correct. I started riding MTB back in 1997, after riding gravel for freaking ever (old is new! 🙂). I added road riding into my life in 1998 and yes, it made me a better MTB rider. Getting to ride after rainy days without damaging our trails is nice. Our trails are better at shedding water now, but we still try to not ride them right after a hard rain.
Is it a requirement? Of course not. If all you do is DH/Bike Park, etc., the type of fitness road riding will help you achieve probably isn't a priority.
We do mostly XC/Trail riding, so distance and climbing fitness is a definite plus.
Wait a minute! Dirt shed show on a Tuesday?
Yea! - We've always loved the pre-weekend ride feel of the show, but this move allows us to be more timely with any news that happened on the weekend so we are giving it a try
@@gmbn Didn't it used to be on a Tuesday?
The course was a spicy one, but it's a good thing that other MTB skills are being pushed. This is the elite, the very top tier of the sport. If you only need to be fitter than the other riders is it really rewarding the best rider? XC was kinda just techier CX, now it's getting closer to trail riding! It also makes for a better spectacle, which can help the sport grow
My main MTB is a 2017 specialized chisel - a 100mm hardtail XC bike. I put a dropper on it and some slightly knobbier tires but it's perfect for my trails.
Pro level XC might be getting gnarlier but my local trails aren't changing much.
With the evolution of XC bikes we see the evolution of the tracks. We have gone from cantilever brakes with 60mm elastomer on hardtails to 120mm on both ends with dropper posts and electronic everything. The races we ride as amateurs have also progressed, with bigger everything along the way. Tracks should test skills as well as fitness. The A line should reward the better riders and let the less skilled riders use the B and C. Who wasn’t rubbing their hands before race day looking forward to some serious action.
When I finally did road riding it made fitness better and then had more air for tech
Has Rich been snorting the helium balloon !
Haha, I raced on 26x 1.5 mud tyres back in the 90s, mud build up with canti brakes was an issue before discs. Worked really well at a particularly muddy Eastnor, didn't have to find a stick to poke the mud out of the frame 😂
As for racing these days, still on a 90s hardtail with Pace RC 35 forks. Its "fun" .... not finishing last in races on that is a win😊
I had been riding a YT Izzo as my weapon xc bike, but switched back to a HT Ibis DV9, no dropper, 120mm and all mechanical components. Changed my riding to make everything more XC-iting
sorry guys but 1. Pidcock is a mountainbiker & roadie that began riding cyclocross 2. Every xc worlds level athlete trains in road , thats not a secret. great we are back to tuesdays!!
I feel like anyone who wants to learn really good bike handling skills no matter the bike, should learn to mountainbike. Mountainbiking is definitely what made me good at handling a bike, even though I don't ride MTB regularly anymore.
Tom Pidcock's win at the Crans-Montana track was nothing short of super-human. The Crans-Montana track obstacles (A-Line) were dangerous considering the track conditions. If you watched the entire race (both men and women) the race was really decided by the climbs where riders had to dismount to get up the inclines. Obstacles should be in the race but not set up to satisfy the blood lust of the spectators and fans. The stage one 2020 tour of Poland is an example of narrowing a sprinter chute with deliberate intent to cause crashes. The Crans-Montana decent where there were lots of tree roots was a simple obstacle giving riders lots of trouble, that was a good example of real world trail navigation.
Most of these new XC bikes have the very similar geo as the 2019 Trance trail bike imo
More difficult XC is awesome. So much more exciting to watch. And if tracks get even harder with timed ups and downs bikes might change to more 50/50 trail bikes which would be an amazing race. I’d watch that more than any other disciplines. I’m a downhiller also and have never put a leg over an XC bike. If XC changed into this format I’ll be watching
My everyday mtb is the now old Epic Evo and quite frankly it's astonishing how far they have come. As for Pidcock I suspect it's more likely his Cyclocross skills that have helped him on the mtb but you never know. That and he's a God Dam freak of nature. Modern XC is getting more tech but isn't it supposed to surely?
Some cross country courses were this tough back in the 80's and 90's with no suspension and no dropper posts. Hard courses are much more entertaining!
Evolution of XC? To what, Downhill? Keep XC what it’s supposed to be, Cross Country and leave the knarly stuff to the downhill crowd that ride with the correct protective gear.
14:40 - Don't let him smoke weed during the recording 😂🤣😂🤣😂
I was brought up riding XC in the 90`s
to me, XC is a test of endurance with some fun slightly techy downhills, but these days XC courses are way too gnarly. Its making XC un inclusive. And maybe even making people think they need longer travel more fancy bikes. It`s such a shame.
If some people want a suer gnarly XC course, perhaps make it a separate discipline.
Agree that endurance was very much the main thing in the past, you had to have some skill, but nowadays looks like just skill based, which is more like enduro/dh style.
This is kinda why you see the growth of gravel riding. So much of mountain biking is inaccessible now.
Agree 👍👍
Cycling does provide a based and long distance endurance. This helps for the MTB tracks. Typically, on road rides takes about 95 to 105 miles, 4.5 hours to 5.6 hours depending if the ride has hills, mountains climbs, etc.
Apparently you guys never heard of the old school Shasta Damn Lemurian race of the 90's. Tomac's favorite!
They are definitely evolving the tracks to be more of a challenge with more tech on both the ups and downs. I love seeing the riders really have to be a more all around rider to race well on these tracks. It does separate them from the rest. There is still something to be said about a rider that can destroy the field on heavy climbing courses, but it doesn’t have the same level of excitement as a rider that battles through tough technical ups and downs and other riders to take the win.
Can we get a bloopers edit of this episode please
I ride a modded 21 Trek Marlin - saving for a Mach4SL... I'll say this . Looong gravel training sessions will build the conditioning to crush it in XC racing IMO 😉
The amateur XC races around Texas are not too crazy, seems perfect. The UCI courses, for example in Fayetteville, are pretty wild though! But then that is only pros competing, seems appropriate. However as mentioned, some of the features become stupid if it rains. No matter how skilled you can just end up dead.
Rich has his stunt mug catching back on point with a smooth grab at silly mid on after Martyn bowled it to the left stump of the old tripod thus bringing his selection for the Ashes team back into the running with the safest set of hands in the GMBN line-up. Us Aussies will be watching Rich's progress over the next few weeks very closely.
You guys are just cool. Best DSS to date.
I've generally found "Olympic" XC races to be trending towards too basic for maybe the last 10 years. With Cyclocross and gravel coming to the fore, XC races should be pushing to be more "mountain biking" XC racing then general cross-country racing (which is gravel now)
Oh Martyn I loved that Dragon Ride story. Laughed quite a bit!
The more you practice in something thats hard the better you get the easier stuff gets
I'm the weekend warrior middle of the pack novice local race rider, and i ride a 140 front 130 rear specialized stump jumper build with a dropper ,quad piston brakes, and wide bars. I'm good enough to notice the extra heft to my bike but I need to ride comfort and forgiveness from the travel. increasing my fitness would be job one. but racing cross country on a trail bike is deffinitly going to slow you down in some cases.
Dirt Shed on a Tuesday?
nature is healing
Yeh.... What did we miss? Was one on Fri just gone as well!
Yes, we love the 'let's get stoked for the weekend' vibes of a Friday, but moving to earlier on in the week allows us to be more timely with any news that happened on the weekend. So we are giving it a try 👍
Mr Martin you are not a cheater although it's extremely funny on how it all went down but nonetheless it was great
keep up the good work young man
Maybe one day you'll actually do the full race not just one small micro section that just happened to be there and without you even knowing it That's happened a couple times to other people not saying whom but it has happened by pure mistakes
More exciting to watch
They had easier slower lines, what's the controversy? If you wanted to save time and had skills you benefited. No one forced a rider to ride a gnar feature there was always a B line. Also as an old guy who raced 26 inch hardtails at places like Mt Snow in the rain, this race course is core to the roots of racing.
You 2 crack me up -- Cheers!
These technical courses grow the sport. Growth is good for everyone.
The recent XC track is inappropriate. The organizers should have considered the safety of most of the riders. They should have at least require the racers to wear more or upgraded protective gears.
Dear Martyn you really are a ray of sunshine!!! 🤣🤣🤣
I now ride a 130mm/110mm downcountry full sus and a 120mm hardtail. I just got a deal on a 120mm Cotic Solaris Max xc meets trail bike.
The issue with those extreme XC tracks is that they don't use anything more than an open helmet and gloves. If you go further, it's gona be just like Enduro.
I don't know who has the final word deciding the obstacles, if it's just to increase audience, but it's getting unecessarily dangerous.
It's Cross Country. Not Enduro. Not Downhill. Not BMX.
The course looked awesome, and I think some of those crashes could have been avoided with better tire selection and flat pedals.
I love watching it, it’s mad, been watching Pidcock riding cyclocross from the early days and he was fluid from a young age and I think he just loves riding off-road. Wat 100-120mm fork should I run on my hardtail ?? not got a fortune to spend and I’m no Tom Pidcick😂
Great show 👍
@martynashton3607 We saw you at Margham Park after finishing my 1st ever 100 mile ride. We couldn't work out if you'd done the ride or not but thought it'd be a great idea for you to do it on The Random Tandem !!! 🙂
Hey! Made it on the bike vault 🤙🤙🤙
Pidcocks a machine incredible rider.
Great channel. It is a much warch
Jeannie Longo was 93's xc vice world champion.
Martin Ashton you are a legend, that was hilarious you ‘finished’ the Dragon ride 😂😂
Tuesday is the Dirtshed Show.
Would you not change the setup of your bike to suit the conditions. Maybe even have a different style of bike with more travel and slacker head tube to handle the drops and different tyres to suit the conditions. Looks like they took a knife to a gunfight and got smoked.
Dude spot on. That's exactly what I said get rid of those fucking flat bars and go to like a 25 mm riser perhaps even use a trail bike frame rather than an XC frame with 69° head... the thing about cycling is unlike motorcycling is that the Riders and cruise in bicycling are extremely rigid and not that smart when it comes to engineering. Worst of all are the Roadies and the XC types because they are basically the same. Prior to XE courses getting more difficult they were basically Road rides on dirt or basically what is considered gravel now. 🙄
It might take them a while to figure it out but of course changing settings modifying your bike for this type of riding is without a doubt necessary some of these dopes May figure it out and some may never😂
Pidcock isn’t a roadie…he’s a cyclocrosser. There are road handlebars, but the riders are very far from “roadies”
Rich is having a GOOOOOD time 😅👽
I’m riding an old xc hard tail 100 mil travel but it’s only because I have so much wrapped up in the gravel bike and my commuter and my road bike that the mountain bike is just my 2012 trek cobia it’s been neglected over the years but has good parts. Don’t fix what isn’t broken although it’s getting tough to find non tapered suspension forks so an upgrade is coming.
Now they need a stair set in the tour de France lol.
Definitely intimidation
Also it’s a bit tougher at 160-180
#askgmbn at Crans Montana they were running 2.1 tyres. Many of the modern brands are only making their rims with internal width of 30mm now. But 2.1’s need a narrower rim, so how do they handle this for unique races ?
Rockin' a Chisel but I'm certainly not shredding XC courses despite my dropper post.
Riding Technical sections with out a dropper is wild to me. Back in the day I remember seeing top XC racers like Nino rip downhills with full seatpost and skinny bars over the front wheel. That was wild. I would crash so hard without my trail bike setup.
Most xc bikes do have droppers now, just shorter travel than trail or enduro bike droppers
@@thegreatseprano9918 yaaa I’m talking about back in the day, when XC bikes where sketchy AF. Nowadays XC bikes are basically trail bikes
#captioncontest Blake loves everything hard. hard tails, hard pecs, hard biceps, hard jumps..... co-indecently it seems he also finds color co-ordination hard 🙊
could use more reasons for bike vault super nices. i want to see a special on the best of super nices and those would be the real super nices. you guys are super nice…. get what i did there
Oh c'mon. Even the best of them can make a mistake. I'm sure you have seen that Van Del Poel crash on a drop that everyone had no problem negotiating.
Most XC riders might want to train with likes of Richie Rude, Jesse Melamed, Amy Morisson, Isabeau Courdurier, etc during off season to prepare themselves for the gnarly parts next season
Due to XC now being gnarly, is there an opening for ‘short track gravel’??
#askGMBN Whatdya mean you've never heard of Tarland trails - get yer southern arses up here and try em out! (Nah, 2nd thoughts, it sounds like a Martyn, Owen and Anna only trip).
Ok, who magic-brownied Rich?
Purple trails are the hardest because that's the colour mortals end up if they we try and ride them!
For the XC bike, I still ride my 2013 Giant XTC with 100mm RocShox SIDs and Thompson seat post, not a droper and it's a 29er with 2.25 tires. Has a Cane Creek adjustable head set. Absolutely my favorite bike!
Caption Contest-Blake's famous "bikecep" pose
#captioncontest: tight lycra clad purple muscles, - YOUCAN!
One of the best "Roadies" was a mountain biker, thumbs up for Cadel Evans!
Don’t forget Peter Sagan. He started off road.
#ASKGMBN please can you make a detailed video o series about the training to reach the best performance level to participate in an epic race, I’m referring to 100Km in a single day (Baja Epic). I’m preparing for this race in 3,5 months 😅
I think Rich accepted some brownies from trail parking lot? 😂
Been skiing for many years, never once seen a purple run.
Looks like it’s MTB trying to be different as they couldn’t come up with their own rating system
This last MTB Race at Montana was crazy. This is not Supercross. Mud and wood does not go well together. MTB needs to stop making the courses artificial. They should leave that to Redbull. It's called Mountain Biking for a reason. A bridge is fine. A minor artificial rock garden is ok as well. But to make three artificial lines and not take into account rain and mud is stupid.
So agree with you
Yeah. They need to chill with these artificial obstacles.
@@keirfarnum6811 100%
It could be said that those features where built to provide consistency in changing weather conditions.
For example had those steep sections been left natural they would have degraded to unrideable deep ruts with that traffic.
Personally I thought it was a step forward.
😢🙄😭
Boohoo... better call Mommy! 😂
#Captioncontest: After Blake's massive win, he got to keep everything including the bike
How many times do I need to send my XC bike in to the bike vault for a chance to get her on 😅 sent her in once couple weeks ago, do you need to do it each week for a chance to get seen or is once enough and hope for the best 😜
I dont like the show on Tuesday... I always looked forward to the show on a Friday night after a long week at work... Now my Friday night feels so empty
I don't bike a lot but i have snowboarded all over and ive never heard of a purple trail/run Double black and Triple black yeah but not Purple
Definitely gone a bit too far. They are not even allowed to wear protection! Glad no-one got more seriously hurt.
What's next to make it more 'technical'? Make them loop 'DownHill' tracks?, I'm sure they are ALL capable but it's not XC
I dont know why we disgusted of road riding.
Im thinking of buying a gravel bike too