The Dark Truth Of Brutal DOOM Exposed...
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- Опубліковано 25 тра 2023
- The Dark Truth Of Brutal DOOM Exposed.
Brutal DOOM is one of the most influential mods for DOOM that have ever come out. In fact, Id Software took certain aspects from the mod to built-in to DOOM 2016. Yet, the mod and its development has seen its fair share of controversies and drama. In todays video, we are going to dive right back into the infamous history of Brutal DOOM. Enjoy.
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Brutal DOOM Review
Brutal DOOM Exposed
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Doom Eternal Ancient Gods Part 2 Ending
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Doom Eternal DLC Trailer
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Doom Eternal DLC
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I really, really, REALLY didnt know if it was right for me to make this video, but I really wanted to give my two cents in this topic that has going on for about 10 years.
I think its time to move on.
Yeah, it is time to move on.
This appears to me like dumb Doom community drama that spiraled out of control as things do on the internet.
However, if we're talking about the industry in general. We should definitely not fall into the 'move on' or 'let go' mentality. Because that's how AAA companies like Blizzard, EA and similar get away with things they shouldn't..
I agree. thank you for the two cents btw.
While I appreciate your two cents on this, the way you started the video, and the way you have titled the video, is not particularly considerate. It made it seem more severe than what it was.
Sounds like computer nerds with egos being exactly that to me
Just a clarification: I experimented with the real gore sprites around 2011~2012 in a test build, but the art style didn't match the rest of the game, so I dumped these sprites. It never made up to a major release. The devs of Project Brutality used these sprites briefly in one of the early 2.0 builds, you may still find a trailer of it using these sprites, but it didn't last long.
And I want to make clear that If anybody wants to call me a psycho because of it, go ahead, I really don't care about people on the internet trying to pose as paladins of good morals. Referencing or even using real gore is normal in the gaming industry as others pointed Half Life 2 using pictures of real carbonized corpses, and at least I did it myself, and didn't try to force somebody else to do it and get traumatized like the Mortal Kombat devs did. Just please, be honest and don't spread lies about me. There are no real gore sprites in Brutal Doom, and there never was unless you were active in the ZDoom forums in 2011 and played one very specific test version.
woah its the guy
I had an amazing high school with your mod! Fucking love it!
you dropped your crown, king.
don't be bothered by these parasites throwing around accusations that can have real tangible repercussions without ever reaching out to you
You shouldn't have been forced to apologize. I understand why you did, though.
I liked the mod. Never once thought about real gore being used.
On the gore note, yes any game that uses or gore or graphic content uses real life references. Going to school for 3D Art, you're taught you need at least three or four references for anything, going on imagination doesn't make a sufficient product. Before I graduated, I did a team assignment with the programming students and we made a doom style game. For the game, I had to find references for blood, limbs, and just the way dead bodies look. I understand an argument against using the images instead of making something new, as I do find it disrespectful to the deceased, but using reference to make something original isn't new and it's standard in the industry.
Thats good insight, thank you for your comment :]
wasn't there something like this in half life/gmod?
Edit: This thing: ua-cam.com/video/euXZL-Dm98s/v-deo.html
The half life/gmod corpse was literally just a low res corpse with its eyes removed. As in its just a corpse.
@@WiseMysticalTree81 Yeah, it was based on the image of a corpse, but back then Valve mostly used images for all their characters. I'm pretty sure Eli was an image of some homeless dude in Seattle.
These are my thoughts exactly. It's okay to use real graphic content as an inspiration in making gore effects in a video game, but it's different in my opinion when that involves using the actual gore image itself. It does feel like being disrespectful to the victim/s of said injury and what's more ominous is someone trying to find out who the person was in the image and making that a part of how people will remember them and that a game like Sad Satan is very well known for something like this being done for simply sadistic reasons and even worse things than what's simply added into this mod for Doom.
Unpleasant truth: Every game with good gore you've ever played has used lots of real life references.
Dead Space, Mortal Kombat, Half Life 2
Those are the ones i know, there is more?
Gorebox never used real gore
@@mateoreyes6921 For reference material? Tons more. Nearly every artist drawing gore has had to look at gore to properly make it. But actual *images*? There's tons out there, in particular older games.
Here's some food for thought: one of the dead NPC's in Half-Life 2's face texture was recently discovered to be based-on a photo of an actual dead body of a burn victim found in a medical journal.
mortal kombat developers also watch TONNES of real-life gore footage and photos to get a good grasp on bodily anatomy and how it works in that setting, it's not anything new in gaming
"based on" is bad phrasing but I think OP meant the actual photo was modified and used in the game, not just used as reference.
@Conner If the victim still have a will, I will gladly obey. Beside, we don't even know where all those tids and bits came from, bet 99% of people cannot identify who all that digitalized gore belong to. Unless he put the whole thing in the game, I think it's nothing worth raging about.
@Conner that's what almost every company did before 2015
You have a source for that outside of Reddit speculation?
I'm a personal friend of Sarge and have to say his only toxic trait now is his occasional procrastination on His projects 😂
mate, he literally encouraged someone to kill himself
@@nida4602 He works for the Canadian health service?
@dilbertdoubloon632 I get what you're saying but that's no where near any kind of justification.
@@vincentjpk not a justification, just context
@@base21 Sure, but I feel like it is besides the point. The context is interesting information though
Let's be honest, two thirds of y'all behave worse on daily in your local meme groups.
Me getting racially motivated with my friends on the slighest incovenience:
I hate you for how true that is
That's true, I can be incredibly racially aware in those environments.
Don’t care didn’t ask Unus Annus pfp
@@adrianhernandez1328 Ok Helltaker pfp
The dark truth of Brutal Doom is that it will suck you in and never let you go. If It wasn't for this mod I probably would have never discovered and fallen in love with the retro shooter revival that's currently occurring. This Mod is amazing and I can't wait for Brutal Fate. Thank you, Sgt. Mk IV, toss the naysayers to the ground!
Fun fact: Brutal DOOM was the first time I played DOOM on PC. And that was in late 2017. If it wasnt for Brutal DOOM, I probably would have never began doing videos on DOOM.
@@Midnighthalo i played doom because of poop mod
Nice Death PFP man
This, exactly!
@@Midnighthalo same for me and I don’t regret it, now I can rip demons to peaces while looking for little plastic toys. Long live doom
Funfact:
DOOM literally had a gore sprite modeled after Mussolini’s dead body post-Italian Campaign WWII
In my opinion, the guy is very dedicated, very skilled and has a certain vision, which he follows somewhat fanatically, causing him to react like a jerk to criticisms. To me, Brutal Doom along with Hell on Earth is the proper "Doom 3", I always imagined it to be. It contains some of the best and most atmospheric depictions of post-apocalyptic urban warfare in a videogame.
@Conner The dish is no longer from the chef if it's altered in any way.
True. It was an amazing experience.
People seethe on this but I still double down and say that without Brutal Doom and it's immense success, Doom(2016) wouldn't be a thing.
@Conner Cope
@Conner and? He was the original. Knockoffs may improve some aspects but they weren't creative enough to originate the concept, so they'll always be ELO to Mark IV's Beatles.
The "community" WAS jealous of him. There was a lot if idol worship in those Doom forums and people were irritated with Brutal's success. Not to say that he couldn't have been a jerk in general- it's just that most of them were big-headed. People would gossip and exaggerate situations involving the author. They did a similar thing when one forum member eventually released his own indie game- half the community freaked out, complained about the (cheap) price and held the poor guy in contempt.
Complains about idol worship, proceeds to worship an idol.
Who is worshipping what now? Lol. It is what it is, more of a "meh" than a complaint. I don't personally care for any of them including the mod creator- just not into it. Just a typical forum type group that eats it's own.
I've been a small contributor for Brutal Doom around 2017 - 2018 and I can say that Mark always made sure to give proper credit to the assets used for the mod when it was around the release of Version 21, while I wasn't aware of his backstory from 2013 (which, I assume most people could appreciate his apologies later on as human beings) I never had any issues surrounding him or the drama around Project Brutality, considering this event never reached out to me nor I ever knew about it to begin with. As for the real gore reference, I can only relate this event being "discovered" just like the burned corpse from Half-Life 2 and other Triple A studios using the same/similar techniques for the more impactful visual fidelity (and I sure hope it's the only purpose and not for some sick and twisted fantasy, considering how vile and disgusting humans can go on their way of enjoyment and pleasure).
Overall, I don't think Sgt. Mark IV is a sociopath and I assure that Brutal Doom's legendary impact and legacy on the community is not going away, I just hope people could stop asking for compatibilities for the mod when there's many other great projects out there that can give you as much joy that BD does in a similar fashion without milking this compatibility request ever so often. I learned to respect the more vanilla side of Doom as the years went on along with some old ZDoom classics and other amazing GZDoom mods out there, such as KDiZD, The Ultimate Torment & Torture, Stronghold: On the Edge of Chaos, ZDoom Community Project Take 2, Doomer Boards Project, Golden Souls, OSJC Major Crisis, The Space Pirate, Doom Delta, DoomRL Arsenal and so on.
Thank you for this comment. Appreciate it!
The bigger issue was the CP in the texture files that he tried to blame on the forum mod.
The real gore images were never that big of an issue, as the original Doom graphics had some real images of dead people but drawn over after being digitized.
@@reicherruschach3727 where did you get that from? can i get some more details on it? because its a pretty serious accusation to just throw out there...
@@daemonvanmeir9697 Information was all over several mod communities, mainly the ones that banned him. One of them I was part of when it happened.
Most of the information came from a forum mod he tried to blackmail into lifting his ban after it was discovered.
Initially, he denied it happened. The forum moderator confirmed it was infact in the mod and banned him. He then tried to blame a modder whose content he took without permission. When that was proven to not be true, he then tried to blame the forum moderator for adding it to sabotage his mod out of jealousy.
He tried blackmailing the forum moderator into lifting his ban, and ultimately got blocked from that whole community, because now all of them despise him
@Conner Wait... Was he using the photos as textures or as references? Because there is a big difference there.
7:04 It's exquisite in the Remake, the way it's also intrinsically tied into the damage system is absolutely incredible and the sheer amount of ways the bodies can get damaged and disfigured and how it effects the Necros is just amazing. The devs of that game, oh boy, they're going places given just how GREAT that remake is on every level.
I really hope they expand on that system with Dead Space 2!
Now the only question is whether or not they'll be remaking Dead Space 2 or doing a Crash Bannoca and ignoring them completely
I’d say it’s plenty realistic too. Most people can walk away assuming they use proper aid if a bullet does little visible harm (assuming no vital organs are hit ofc). The chances drastically decrease if the injuries are a little to much more obvious, and can definitely be life-changing if it’s powerful enough.
Some video games say that aiming for the limbs with a gun is a good less-lethal option. Practically any anti-materiel rifle, battle rifles, and even some powerful pistols with hollow point or other expanding ammunition (think .44 Magnum) would politely disagree, mostly due to their temporary cavities becoming much wider than the limb being shot at. And that’s BEFORE we get into the arteries located in the limbs.
The peeling system is the greatest thing since the fire system from Doom Eternal. If you haven’t tried it yet, try blasting a necromorph with the force gun. It’s awesome!
This is nothing compared to Gmod modders
On the subject of the gore, while a little weird to hear about-- video game developers have used real references for gore since at least 1993. The hanging corpse decorations in Doom are based on some...rather graphic photos.
And there are the stories of what the Mortal Kombat devs have to go through, which might actually count as psychological torture.
Gi joe figures:
Since when were pictures of GI Joes considered graphic photos?
@@sillyfella2009 First I've ever heard of GI Joes. I'd always heard some of those hanging corpses were based on the photos of Mussolini and his family after they were beaten to death and hanged at the end of WW2.
@@aircraftcarrierwo-class that is a hoax
@@sillyfella2009 oh look, a nazi in a sgt mark iv video, what a surprise
I'll never forget the first time I played brutal doom hell on earth. It was phenomenal.
I've engaged Mark in replies before, and honestly, I've never had a problem with the guy. The only people I've ever had issues with have been many of the port developers who like to rag on Mark and people like his who push back against the purists of the Doom community. They're really are not the nicest people at any rate, and honestly, I'd rather talk with Mark rather than those purists. They're the unhinged ones. Mention one thing in a mod that adds something and they think it's the apocalypse and you're a spawn of Satan.
Not to nitpick here, but being a son of Satan is not that bad since this is Doom, we are talking about;-) Jokes aside, I have also met people, who basically criticised a mod for "being too modded".
Ah yes, the “purists”, fuck those guys.
they rather preach to you about political correctness and why mark lV is the bastard child of satan and hitler than talk about DOOM itself. civvie is a great example of a “purist”.
@@CZpersi same here. I once got on the wrong side of some developer of jDoom once for asking about improving the graphics API. Dude went total nutjob with a side order of fruitcake over nothing.
I too have engaged with Mark as well in replies, asked him about the code and if there was any validity to the stuff about the racist things in the code that was being thrown about some years ago when i was talking to him in replies, an honest question to ask i think...Shouldn't have though as he not so kindly told me to "fuck off and commit unalive" for even daring to ask.
Brutal Doomers might get pretty cringe sometimes but they're all much better than the guys over at GZDoom or Doomworld who will ban you if you don't worship trans people 24/7.
Yeah, I can definitely relate to Sgt. Mk IV cuz I have definitely made some stupid decisions that I regret and they haunt me sometimes.
We all have made pretty stupid decisions in life. All we can do is accepted that happened and keep moving forward, striving to be better every single day.
@@Midnighthalo Agreed. One thing I've been trying to do more often is accept myself and love others and I do that by trying to relate to everyone. I see a lot of my younger self in Sgt. Mk IV's younger self and I'm glad you shed light on this situation.
@@Midnighthalo Stfu dude, you are just a low tier youtuber! lol.
@@Midnighthalo I stopped getting better now I'm getting worse again.
The first time I ever played Doom was 1996, I was 10.
A friend at school brought a bundle of floppy disks, wrapped in a rubber band the labels had doom 2 written with magic marker on them, which I had bugged him for for at least 2 weeks. I excitedly went home and installed it on my PC. My life became more awesome forever.
damn bro why are you so old go to your family xdddd (jk)
Give it to the reddit detectives to try to connect someone to a school shooter.
💀
That subreddit is pure soy
Reddit logic be like: he plays and makes mods for doom! SCHOOL SHOOTER
Redddir try not to be armchair psychologists or fascist challenge impossible
R*dditors LOLOLOL
Well, when you started the video I was like: "oh, no, midnight, careful what you're gonna talk about a fellow brazilian" but it was really interesting and I was happy to see that he apologized at the end, and like you said, everybody deserves a second chance, so kudos for him, and for you for doing your research and providing good material. Obrigado, amigo. Você é um amigo.
Brasileiros tentando não fazer uma piada controversa por um segundo be like:
He's actually a really chill guy, he just had a shitlord phase lol
Mano. Só hj eu estou descobrindo que Sarg Mk.4 é BR, pqp kkkk
@@SirCharix né? Suspeitei que ele é latino pelo nome, mas n esperava um br
brazilians trying not to make everything about brazil for one second
Well said about the "Second Chances" part. The drama with the guy was from so long ago, but much of the internet is so obsessed with using a person's past controversies as their only form of ammunition to try ruin the person's life. Mark's been trying to better himself, especially recently when he's been suffering from depression, hence the lack of updates on his mods and upcoming official game, Brutal Fate. Shame on the people for continue to judge those for how they were in the past rather than how they are now.
Cancel Culture... is *CANCER.* And I am so... god *DAMN* tired of it. Those that shamelessly cling to doing that shit are the ones that should seek help, not the people whose lives they're trying to ruin.
Always consider the source. I don't put a whole lot of stock into randos on the Internet myself. Everyone has an opinion and they're all certainly entitled to it and they can share it too. But they can all just as easily be disregarded.
Couldn't have said any of this better, you just earned a sub. 👍
It all depends on whether or not he apologized truthfully
Time does not magically make someone better.
I think this is an American thing, where people conviniently switch between "people can choose how to behave" and "people can't choose how to behave, just pretend that they can", and choose it whenever it paints the person they're mad at in a bad light.
From my understanding of the gore controversy, it wasn't the fact that it was gory that was controversial, but that *actual* pictures of victims were used, and thus disrespectful.
Like with your Dead Space example, the devs used the imagery as inspiration/reference only. They didn't scan in actual car crash victims as the Necromorphs.
Half Life 2 used the face of a REAL burn victim for one of its dead body models. So therefore your point is moot. I will agree it's disrespectful but at the same time the person that took the picture wasn't thinking that. Then again this picture of the burn victim came from a medical journal iirc.
@@glitchhunter09 Half Life 2 doing it as well doesn't make the point moot. It just means that the people working at Valve are also disrespectful cunts.
“Description on 4chan” 💀
7:46 I remember watching one of the original Devs and someone else playthrough the Remake and they also touched upon how they used actual injuries and whatnot as references.
In the book “Masters of Doom”; Adrian Carmack talks about how he had a scrap book of pictures of dead bodies and injuries he had accumulated from his time working at a hospital that he used as references for his artwork. Hell during development one of the developers got really bad road rash and they scanned the injury to use as wall textures.
Good book btw if you haven’t read it (or listened to it, it’s on Audible).
I think it’s fine to base gore off of real gore, as long as you aren’t just straight up posting the original images. I also think that you shouldn’t force artists to use or view those images. It’s a big problem in the video game development community that the art designers are either forced or pushed towards doing it and several devs have come out talking about how bad it is.
yeah a fair amount of the mortal kombat devs have stated that it was terrible on their psyche
If work was any fun you wouldn't get paid they'd charge admission.
@@1pcfred What? This isn’t about how fun it is. It’s about not being forced to deal with entirely preventable mental trauma
@@sandwichboy2511 yeah it is preventable. Don't take the job.
@@1pcfred that is just a brain-rotted take. That’s like saying if you don’t want to get shot, don’t be a schoolteacher. You don’t have to look at dead bodies to make gore. Sometimes the imagination can be more grotesque than reality
The utilization of real gore in the mod though seems like he wasn't inspired by the pictures but rather used the pictures themselves and implemented them in the mod, so I can see where the controversy comes from.
@@druidofscosglen2868 Wait does Project Brutality fr also use irl pics?
Half-Life 2 used a picture of someone's burnt off face for one of their corpse models. Though very questionable, I don't see how SGTMKIV really did anything wrong with the 'Real Gore' part
You can find someone to complain about anything. I'm sure there's people out there bagging on puppies and rainbows somewhere.
I had a feeling things were being blown out of proportion, but I was a bit suspicious about what everyone was upset about.
I do like brutal doom and have loved eday, dispite "what it did to me" but that just be *me* blowing things out of proportion. I do hope some things get fixed with brutal and eday.
What did it do to you?
@@glebb..3416 well I was in (digital) combat for around 2 hours and eventually made it to level 30, Sacrificial Grounds, and if you've played it then you know what's there. It was the slaughter house section and being hopped up on adrenaline that messed me up for weeks after beating it. Now whenever I hear the unreversed half life 2 zombies or some of the quake 2 music like stelth frag, I get a horrible feeling akin to ptsd. But I dont want to call it ptsd because "it was just a video game" and I dont want to take away or lower the bar for ptsd from actual soldiers who suffer from that
@@indy_the_awesome4615 I started playing it and im not far into it, sounds like the "extermination day" mod will get cheap and too hard in the end.
@@glebb..3416 not really it's pretty high quality aside from some levels having a missing texture or wall. The final boss is a bit trash. Pro tip for it: you move faster when you straif run, also spam.
@@indy_the_awesome4615 sounds like a skill issue
The Gore in Dead Space is also unique as it serves as a core gameplay function too. Necromorphs can't be killed easily by just shooting their bodies, you have to take them apart. Otherwise, they don't stop coming at you. If Gore is added with no rhyme or reason then it kinda just feels weird. Even so much as adding Gore as an environmental detail works well as Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal did that and they came out great.
"4chan profile" wow so well-researched
this is a bizarre situation for me because for years i've been told the guy is a sociopathic monster, controlling and manipulative. so, I never bothered to do the research and just accepted that he was a monster that made a good mod. Now I know, hes just a normal dude who said and did stupid shit because hes just human like the rest of us and people hung up on the mistakes to create drama have absolutely nothing better to do than to stir shit up. tragic....
Glad you made the video, thank you for informing me.
I played Brutal Doom
The mod is what is called "fine"
It could be better but it's not bad
@@AxiEisacompletely revitalises the popularity of the game outside of an ever dwindling existing fanbase.
"It's just ok"
K
6:38 *Looks over at Valve's Source games that used a lot of real images of gruesome injures as either reference or in the case of the burned body model as the model's FACE* Sure, it's _too far._ So far Valve has been doing it since the days of at least Half life 2!
is that too far though? im not really sure i understand what people have a problem with, unless its just an emotional reaction to it
mortal kombat dev got ptsd from looking at gore
@@frank_calvert I'm being sarcastic about it being too far (Which is why I italicized it), it's pretty normal in the game industry to use such things for reference when you're making some types of games. The people who said it was too far obviously don't know what the Dead Space devs had to look at on a daily basis when coming up with and designing enemies.
There is a difference in using a real body and taking inspiration from a dead body
@@nahumhernandezg2188 what's the difference? just cuz one is a photo doesnt change they're based on a real person
this is a lot more information that kinda helps me see why people feel about him while also explaining the extensive hate. I do hope he is truly changed, understandble if some doubt it but along as he keeps a clean track record of being decent to other people at least, and keeping his ego in check. I think this bad rep would be more of a learning experience that people can change and it takes time.
Having actually interacted with SGTMK4, I'd say that he's a good guy, and I'd go as far as to say the man's a Rockstar.
Years ago I made a weapons mod for BD v16.b, not a proper weapons wad but rather a modified version of BD itself. I sent it to Sergeant to see what he thought, and getting to the point he said I could make it available to DL. Despite the fact that I had just overwritten his work, due mainly to my own laziness, he didn't bust my balls at all. In my experience he was actually the most easy going person I encountered in my interactions with the doom community.
From Undertale to Homestuck to Brutal Doom- often, you will find your enjoyment of a piece of media will increase if you stay away both from the fandom and the hardcore detractors.
Even the 1993 Original Doom used real Gore, Adrian Carmack used Pictures from the Hospital as Textures in Doom.
BRAZIL MENTIONED 🇧🇷
No, we don't speak spanish
I never understood peeps who are like they used real injury
Like i get it psychological damage on the creators and graphic designers but for the consumer
Art influences reality
And reality influences art
Some people are willing to go to the extra mile to create art real art if it disturbs you and it intrigues you it did it right in my opinion 8:11
This was a very interesting watch. I had heard that Sergeant Mark 4 had some controversy around him, but I never knew exactly what it was. I think your take on this situation is pretty based. What he did was not cool, but he has clearly apologized and moved on, so I think we all should too. I honestly don't get this obsession of hyperfixating on things he said a decade ago when he's clearly changed since then
Read “Masters of Doom” by David Kushner. Adrian Carmack used real gore for textures and sprites often. He had a scrap book of injury and corpse pictures he built from his time working in a hospital. They even scanned an injury of a coworker at iD for a wall texture. I believe it was a gnarly injury from falling off a motorcycle.
I personally play project brutality. That one is my most loved mod. I finished plutonia on it. So yes. I can call myself a doom master.
Wow, Plutonia is hard enough as is, can't imagine finishing it with Project Brutality.
it probably wasnt too bad because of the weaponry in the game
@@dedlol874 project brutality and bd only makes hitscans more dangerous, so more than likely most of it was just taking cover waiting for their turn to shoot lmao
@@dedlol874 It was bad. But the fun kind of bad. If that makes sense.
same. i prefer project brutality
Without brutal doom i dont think i would have played doom.
I bought Doom off the shelf back in the day so I can't say that. There weren't even extra maps back then. Well some. I can still remember the first time I ever played Doom I got up to that first door and I was stuck. I didn't know how to open it. So I thought, What's all the hype about?
@@1pcfred huh, cool story
@@brickjuice2129 that's what happened. I did not know about the use key. I walked up to the door and thought that was it. I'd never seen the game played before. So it was all new to me. I imagine if a savage encountered a door in a building they might be perplexed by it too.
But of an off topic question but something I've been wondering; You know the part in Brutal Doom with the blue key under a ceiling press? Is the invulnerablity orb the only way to get that key? Because that was my solution, but I'm assuming lots of people would have used up the orb fighting the room full of demons and am wondering if you could time and grab (I never could).
Real stuff
I think I know which one you mean. The room with the 4 crushers, right? Yeah, it's possible to grab the items without invuln, just really precise. You have to jump out while ducking and without losing your momentum. If you lose any speed against the crusher wall, you're toast
I find the gore-thing interesting... I've heard of numerous developers/visual artists using actual images of deaths and mutilations as reference, but I'd argue that if someone wanted to make something which is distressing or visually potent; using something unrelated to real life injury is more effective and much less unpleasant for the person producing the piece.
For example: instead of using actual gore or meat for a wound, use something like a calico or hessian bag for reference, just changing the colour pallet but focusing on the texture.
It mixes the associations and becomes slightly jarring. The colour matches what is expected, but the imitation of a material with a specific texture causes a tactile association.
...and you don't have to sit around looking at things that might make you sad for hours. No desecration of a persons entire life is required and I guarantee it is more effective in most cases.
Can you explain how a sack of coarse fabric look like gore?
@@kullenberg It's a bit complicated to describe without making a visual representation, but part of the point is that it's mostly not like gore, yet contextually the colours are correct, the location seems right (extruding from under the skin) but the texture is not as expected. It's visually jarring, which can cause some people to feel uncomfortable.
You can probably test it out in something like Photoshop or Krita by desaturating an interesting texture and placing it over a section of a persons body and using a multiply blend. Under it, get a colour pallet based of something like a raw steak or aged watermellon slice and loosely paint the colours under it, trying to follow the pattern. Some things will work, some things won't.
Half life 2 supposedly used a real burnt body to make the burnt corpse model. So using real bodies is apparently a normal thing in game development
thats a really painterly approach! rather suggesting than explaining.😊 earlier games pre 2000 knew this, seems to be all gone, and replaced by boring naturalism @@kalaherty
that is the most supid idea ive ever heard of, the result of that isnt effective and it doesnt look slightly jarring or anything, it just looks like complete shit
Reddit once again showing why theyre the worse place on the internet
i remember the time that the orignal PB got nuked by a hijacked account of Mr enchanter the other time. and i remember the sprites i worked with was gone but still had back up to this day
A lot of game companies used real gore for game Development valve has done it so this is not really too messed up
People literally found out about half life 2 using a dead corpse image as a face for an npc, like, months ago.
I wouldn’t go so far to say it’s not messed up, but at least it’s not specific to this one particular guy
6:33 didnt valve use real gore for half life 2?
They did. The corpse with the charred face is (well, was) a real corpse.
The creators of Dead Space didn't put real gore in their game though, they just used them as references. Sergeant put actual images of real corpses in his mod.
I still play Brutal Doom periodically. It’s a great stress reliever, and it easily surpasses vanilla doom. Sergeant Mark IV has done a bang-up job on this great mod.
However, I’d hesitate to call his “apology” shown at 13:15 a sincere one. He states pretty clearly that he’s apologizing because it suits his own interests, not because he’s remorseful of his actions. And he seems to feel as if the ones he offended are at fault for not understanding his humor, hence why he’ll now try harder to avoid offending those who aren’t “open minded.” Seems like an “apology” from a man who’s concerned only about the personal consequences of his actions, rather than how people are affected by them. Maybe he will put a cap on his toxic behaviors for the time being, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him eventually revert to his old ways if he feels he can get away with it again.
That said, I suspect most people aren’t much different inside, only being “good” around others where it suits them in society. Sergeant Mark IV is just more open about it.
As a Brazilian the worst part of this video was when he spoke spanish when talking about Brazil. Lol
I don't know much about Sgt's politics but I seen to remember some time ago that supporters of Bolsonaro (former far-right president of Brazil) were complaining because Sgt criticized him.
That's a surprise. Given how some of the supposed 'edgy' Doom community members were often or tend to lean right-wing. Very interesting.
@@rickwong9049 It doesn't necessarily mean he isn't right wind. There are plenty of right-wing folks which didn't like Bolsonaro.
I miss when the internet was the wildwest
I was around in the community from the very first releases of Brutal Doom (and had contributed some assets to it), and have seen the whole shitshow unravel throughout the years. The prevailing cause for the hatred of the mod, aside from all that's been mentioned here, was the fact that a lot of newcomers to the Doom community got their start through Brutal Doom rather than the vanilla experience, thus leading to demands being thrown at mappers that they accommodate for the mod as well as major disdain of newcomers from the vanilla sector. It definitely wouldn't have had the same level of notoriety had that not been the case.
All said and done, I can't really hold anything against him for all that happened back then; that was a decade ago, and though a lot of his actions were shitty and still are considered as such, I don't have much say as I was definitely no saint either.
As a side note, around the time that v0.4 was out, I posted a suggestion in the forums for special kill sequences whilst in Berserk mode in order to add some rip-and-tear to the powerup. I don't know if that's what directly led to fatalities in BD, but the fatalities did inspire the Glory Kill mechanic in Doom 2016/Eternal, so if that was the case, then I can hold a little bit of pride to that.
anyway to get rid of the gradual gradient shading/fog, i can change the lighting type in different engines, but nothing solves it, i noticed it's not an issue in the total convertion mod "the adventures of square", because it uses a limited color palette with less colors.
I love Brutal Doom as it's very well made and for those who don't have a PC that can run Doom Eternal it's a great way to play a more intense and visceral version of Doom. That said I do always try to separate creators from their art.
Eff Doom Eternal. I don't want to play it. I play OG Doom.
8:30 en realidad no es 4-Chan, es la vieja interfaz que tenían los ZDoom Forums (de hecho no la habían actualizado hasta inicios de este año -creo-)
the vanilla doom games contain actual gore and scanned body parts from photos of mussolini and his men's dead bodies
>his 4chan profile
His mf-ing what again?
i don't know if someone told you about it already
that site you showed is not 4chan
its called zdoom forums but the old design actually similar to 4chan somehow xD
Thanks for clearing it up. I began browsing the web in 2006, but the only places I visited were og UA-cam and Runescape, so I never, and have never learned how to use forums like 4chan haha.
@@Midnighthalo you didn't miss much with 4chan.
Gamers when someone makes a violent mod for a violent game:
Does anyone know what the music around 12:12 is?
Honestly, personally i dont think any behavior involving gore and anything like a video game should be justified, nor inspiration from real gore if im being honest thats also very disgusting, like just think of the families of the car crash victims they took inspiration from on the pictures, its just disgusting if im being honest
And dont even get me started on half life
But nonetheless i love the game and i dont really understand why devs do this shit, like no ones telling you that you have to put real gore into your game, nor recreate it 💀
0:57 Surprise Muta
Who doesnt love Muta
Dang, i just so happened to be investigating on this topic and it just so happened you made this video 30 minutes ago lol, but yeah i feel for sgt mark, if ever i get significant id have enough dirt to get myself cancelled.
Reality can be however I want.
I feel like the difference between Dead Space and Brutal Doom when it comes to gore is the purpose it serves in the game. It doesn't feel as upsetting when Dead Space uses real gore for inspiration because it is a horror game, the gore is supposed to horrify the player, Brutal Doom's gore is meant to look cool and be fun to look at. Using real gore to create something people are supposed to laugh or say "fuck yeah!" at is different than using it to create something to disgust and horrify the player.
just wondering why do you show so much stock doom footage in the video when it's about PB & BD?, great video! thanks
honestly, both sergeant mark iv and painkiller both kinda suck... but i just play the game with those mods, and ignore the drama!
As people should
It always weirds me out how a lot of people who never spoke to the guy or even seen the guy can just hate a person so much to the point of making stuff up about the person. Also the gore thing saying how it makes him a psycopath but thats normal for games to do...
There's nothing inherently wrong with being a psychopath. Now being a homicidal psychopath is another matter entirely.
Its just people overreacting, but the shit at the beginning of gore 3 lump, I dont generally think that was just an "edgy joke"
might come out of left field but this is giving me flashbacks to when the sound designer for half life 2 mmod used sounds from the christchurch terrorist attack livestream and praised the shooter as a hero in internal discords. my understanding is he was kicked off the team but in recent years the topic has been suspiciously purged from the internet save for a rogue mention on twitter so i cant imagine anyone being able to make a video about it
15:49 whats the song thats playing in the background?
Resident Evil Code Veronica - Save Room
I'd take Brutal over Eternal anytime in the week. They are both good tho, but Eternal is too repetitive.
I gotta agree, if the guy has shown remorse, then leave him be. The 17 year old you and the 30 year old you are complete strangers in most cases. Remember that we all came together over doom, making all of us "little Eds" in some small way.
I'm 17 with 41 years of experience.
@@1pcfred I am 17 with only 23 years experience
@@barrystoltz5137 that's the way to be. These kids will figure it out eventually. Or not.
Eh, just saying "I'm sorry" does not completely erase whatever you did or said in the past. Nobody is compelled to accept another person's apology. The burden is always on the offending party to *prove* that they have genuinely turned over a new leaf through their actions.
That said, I do believe that if Sgt. Mk IV has genuinely mended his ways--and from what I can see, he seems to--then rehashing old controversy from the past does not benefit anyone.
@@Schwarzvogel1 clearly you've never done wrong in your life then
8:30 Not 4chan, pretty sure this is a standard php forum? I've been on one of these before but idk if its php or some other forum format
I think this video needed to be made, Midnight. Thanks. The fact is, a lot of people will crap on what someone did in the past and never let them recover and learn from it. I think that at this point, Brutal Doom and Project Brutality are very different mods, and though the origin may have been the same, they've taken different approaches. We all grow, learn, and get better, in life, and in mods.
Great video Midnight. Though you may be making another video on him soon as it appears that he has uncovered some pretty nasty stuff going on in with community moderators.
funny that, huh? the people that kept pointing fingers at him were the ones actually to blame.
@@BigHailFan I know right? It's almost like the guilty are the ones who constantly scream the loudest.
Where can I read about that?
The virgin brutal Doom hater: Hates Brutal Doom because of its creator.
The chad brutal Doom hater: Hates Brutal Doom because all its aditional content ruins the gameplay of the game and knows that sometimes less content is more.
"Ruined"
Seethe.
@@ghoulbuster1 Seethe by shooting some demons... in Brutal Doom.
I really don't like vanilla Doom anymore. If I play it now it's only ironically.
@@1pcfred Aw. Vanilla Doom is great though.
"imaginary digitil gore is based off of gore in real life, get the lynch mob together!"
This is the most ret@rded drama
Yeah, using real gore as a reference is pretty standard. That I don't have an issue with. What rubbed me the wrong way was the apparent pride he took in it.
Happy to give people a second chance and prove they've grown, and I'm totally willing to believe that SM4 was simply engaging in some very misinformed "banter" with the language he used to use, but honestly his attitude doesn't really show a lot of growth in the years between. It's great he's apologised and I'm willing to hear his side of things, but he still acts like a dick when he's criticised and he ultimately paints a picture of someone who resents being called on his crappy behaviour rather than, say, someone who took his lumps, genuinely considered the affect his behaviour might have on others and generally learned a lot from his past. That sucks to say, but just how I see it
Excelente video amigo, sigue así con el fantástico trabajo :)
That sponsor hit so out of nowhere that it knocked the wind out of me bruh
Bro's like Moon Knight, he may be edgy, egocentrical, and he perhaps he steals other people work (Moon knight one time pretended to be other heroes), but in the end, he's an interesting character who leaved a legacy that will be remember, perhaps at the same Level as Doom itself
Reddit. A place where they laugh at boomers for coming up with nonsense conspiracy theories, only to come up with their own conspiracy theories using armchair psychology.
5:55 i dont see anything wrong with that
@Midnight That’s not 4chan at 8:30, that’s the old zdoom forums.
Midnight: **speaks Spanish**
Me, a Latino Doom Fan: **happy noises**
SPARTAN ARMY ASSEMBLE!!!!
😎
Assemble
ASSEMBLE
Hoo ah
In the words of Yahtzee Croshaw and Gabriel Morten:
"Whoever you are Sgt. Mk. 4, I hope you talk to someone about all this."
"Haha, I hope you don't. I hope you're alone in a room, making more of these!"
8:40 thats... the zdoom foruns
Also yea, real gore being used in games is (sadly for the devs) kinda common from quite a long time, a good example is the half life's 2 burned corpses
one thing I think that lead to brutal doom's success is the brutal doom starter packs which have the mod and gzdoom all included in one downloadable file. so if you ever want to play it all it requires is one file and no need for managing it.
6:07 To add on to your point, Tomb Raider 1 actually has photographs of real dead human flesh for its Atlantis level & mutant body textures taken in a coroner’s office, as revealed by the book The Making of Tomb Raider, though the graphics quality of the TR1 engine makes it look more cartoonish than the source photos were.
While it was animal instead of human this time, Alien famously used real blood and meat in the chestburster scene from a butcher’s shop. The actors were uneasy despite not being told what was going to happen as they could smell it.
I never had a problem with Sgt. Mark. I think he's just a pretty blunt and straightforward guy who doesn't give a damn about pissing people off. My experience with Doomworld and ZDF is that there is a fair number of those people who are just overly sensitive. I went back recently because I wanted to check out some of the mods I like and it just seems to have become a tad politicized. I am pretty sure most people will agree when I say I play games to escape from that shit.
what about the fact he encouraged a depressed person to end their life?
"Don't care what people think" is just cunt code for being a piece of shit to people. Hence the suicide encouragement.
@@user-vn1xb1mi8x up until a few years ago people didn't really think it was a big deal to do that and more than likely a good percentage of the people condemning him have done so themselves.
Holy shit, this fucking sucks! Sad to know the actual state of the community.
@@user-vn1xb1mi8x Speaking from experience, if someone is going to take their own life the last thing they are gonna do is announce their plans publicly. I've had multiple friends "self delete" and it always comes out of no where when it happens. While on the other hand the ones who announce it have done so multiple times, and it is usually a childish cry for attention. Of course you will give them the attention they desire the first time, but after multiple threats it starts to wear on you. Granted I wouldn't have gave the guy pointers on committing the act, but I would have definitely told him he needs to seek help.
Recently someone I went to high school with took her own life because she suffered from chronic migraines and just couldn't live with it anymore. Another was an ex gf who felt like she was stuck in a no win situation with a POS bf. Was told around 2 am she hung herself. Just spoke to her a week earlier attempting to tell her to just cut and start fresh.
Then again, maybe SGT has been exposed to a lot of death in his life so he has that whole "Memento Mori" ethos going on and just comes across as being cold hearted when he is just being frank.
Wasn't there a Brutal Doom-level pack made by some othe Brazilian modder, that only got made like 60% finished, and then suddenly the guy got mad at SM4 and stopped the project all together? Something about SM4 stealing his lab coat-monster. Or I'm a just remembering things wrong?
I've seen the lab coat monster in a few different mods. In fact it's even in Ancient Aliens. One of my favorite mods uses a lot of lifted resources. I don't care. People are so hyper sensitive. Was that modder going to monetize their pack? Who cares if someone uses some sprites? If I ever made any I certainly wouldn't care who used it.
@@1pcfred Then it probably was not the lab-coat. Do you know about the story?
People are not hyper sensitive in the doom community in my opinion. They care for the community and react to toxic behaviour, which they should, that is how you keep a forum moderated and create a positive sharing commmunity. I've been on doomworld since the start in the late 90s. I've seen some bad stuff but also lot of examples on how the community kept building around postive stuff.
@@sidtandy4333 I find people that use the word, "toxic" to be toxic. So now I am canceling you. Good day.
Can you be nice and good person and help me with something? Long ago when I was starting with brutal doom for the first time there was whole campaigne included which have nothing with normal campaignes from doom 1 or doom 2. I'm trying to find it but without success. Maybe you know how to find it and help me.
I remember hearing something about Sergeant_Mark_IV being a nazi, but when I tried to look it up, I found nothing. It's good to see some explanation for it.
What if he is? It's his life. He don't owe you squat. If you don't like it then too bad That's a you problem.
@@1pcfred Brother, wtf are you on about? What kind of drugs have you been taking to come to that conclusion from what I said? And more importantly, why are you defending the idea of him being a Nazi?
@@1pcfredim a n°°z*, watching mark is depressed its kinda hilarious
@@dr.defientz5992 all I see is people that can't separate the art from the artist. I don't care if the guy is a Nazi. I don't engage in politics playing Doom. I'm not a fan of Brutal Doom but I still respect the work. It is an amazing mod regardless of what I may think about it.
It's OK to be national-socialist.
I think there's a real difference between using images of gore as a reference for art and digitising photos of gore to use as assets in games. I think it's disrespectful to the deceased.
I truly believe that Sargent is a Psychopath and him making Brutal DOOM proves his descent into Psychopathic madness...
I also did some very dumb decisions. I somehow relate to Sgt Mark IV
I agree with the idea that doom 2016 did borrow stuff from brutal doom. But it is a fantastic game either way.