@@Varsona I personally struggled a lot, because she seems to struggle to fight any armored unit (of which, there are a lot of). It doesn't help that the latest DLC update gave GK Chloe a broken spear.
@@azurethescaletipper210 Griffin Knight Chloe in my maddening has high avoid and high crit, no need to have higher strength when you can crit and higher defense when you can avoid, avoid>defense on maddening all days since you can only tank 2 enemy at most on maddening but you can dodge many of their attack
Ive made chloe a mage knight for two runs and shes been a monster. Her high avoid with elsurge just dumpsters everything. And then a flame spear for some break utility if needed
I've been using this build on Maddening and it's actually really good. I did adjust it because I wasn't going to get enough SP to get the skills demanded in this video, so I ended up just buying speed +3 and spending the rest of my SP on the highest tier of Avoid+ that I could afford from Marth. I DID realize after getting Mauvier later on however that if I turned him into martial master his stats (besides his speed) would all be even better than Chloe's though, making him a better version of her in this role. All you have to do is give him 1-2 speed wings to match her speed, and the low speed cap of martial master might not even make that necessary anyways.
I actually prefer martial master on jade myself with hector. It evens out both of Jade's offenses at 45 and her defenses at 55. She invests in bulk rather than speed and relies on radiance (ike) engraved divine fist art and quick reposte to keep her damage output high while still having some very respectable defenses to boot. This subverts the issue of the low speed cap and because of hector's great additional defensive bulk she becomes a pretty effective mixed tank that can double without relying on speed.
This looks awesome! Have been planning to run her as a Griffon Knight for my first playthrough, but might fall back on this if it doesn't work out. I am planning on investing into Jean and making him a Martial Master though, and while he wouldn't get her awesome passive for boosting her damage, I imagine he'd fill this role pretty well with his growths as well. So we'll see how it goes!
Oddly enough, I've been running a similar build on my Martial Master Merrin + Eirika. Been sitting on 3k SP on her and been sitting in the Ring Chamber trying to figure out what Skills to inherit so this helps out a lot!
Maybe this would work for Mauvier well on maddening? I feel that this may be a waste of Chloe's high speed growth, while Mauvier instead has higher MAG and STR growth than Chloe (35 and 40 respectively for Mauvier, vs 25 and 35 for Chloe). I've been having trouble figuring out a unit to give Byleth to, without wasting any other emblems or best potential of any character. This might be a good solution, to add Mauvier to my main party and inherit him with Solar Brace and Canter. Video helped to figure this out, hopefully it works out nicely.
I just got Mauvier and all of his stats (besides his speed) are just better than Chloe's if you make him into a martial master. Sadly it looks like I'm going to have to try and come up with a different niche for Chloe to fill next time.
@@jackmanleblanc2518 I finished maddening a couple of days ago with Mauvier still as a martial master, it worked well enough. He was never going around obliterating enemies, given maddening, but he served well. I also had Chloe in my main party, though just as a griffin knight. Working toward clearing the post game now.
A list of units I’ve encountered with balanced str/mag stats growth potential. *Clamme (who’s been gaining levels as a mage/sage/knight and he has very high dex/spd growths naturally) *Framme (she starts with arts and is easy to manage and has even more speed growths than her twin brother but classes growths could affect that) *Celine (Her Atk/Mag growths are almost the same as a Vidame and she has a chance to proc “Ignis” on all 4 hits) *Lapis (go look at her growths and give her another try on your next playthrough. Don’t bench her this time) *and to prevent spoils two of the in-game bosses are great options as one joins with a Flame lance to let you know that they are great at both physical and magical potential. And the other joins with a dagger that scales off magic, yet she still had better strength stats than my Yunaka.
Edit: I don’t know for sure if Ignis is a available once Celine is taken off of her Vidame class. If that’s the case that is unfortunate and a slight mistake on my part. My apologies.
Funny enough I've seen people use Celine as a swordmaster because of how high her str can get,but using her as a martial master is definitely an interesting one when you can get her str and mag + early on if you try
You want to use Flashing Fist Art, not Divine. The bonus speed is necessary for not being doubled by things like Wyvern Riders in tempest trials, and enables you to double mages
I've been doing a brave axe rosado with erika's ring, the difference being that rosado is in a class with better spead so he could inherit canter+ and axe power 2, making him quad everything with some extra damege even in maddening.
I'm thinking this isn't even a bad enemy phase build if you're using Eirika, as in late game Maddening Sieglinde will just turn her into a delete button when engaged (I precisely gave Eirika to Griffin Chloe in my run, she was a no brainer dance target)
I'm so glad that im not the only one who loves the martial Master Erika build. I ended up going the fram route with it on my first playthrough while also giving gentility to my timera and golden momy to make them into a super strong front line with the ability to damage mode with the night/day ability or engage on fram.
I was recently thinking about this when Acousticharmonia did his *MASSIVE* vid giving tons of breakdowns & builds, and for his Alear build, he suggested that Chrom is a great emblem for the +10 Mag practically giving +5 to arts, which *then* made me really look at this build & think “huh, this would be perfect for Boucheron to try out” XD Looking at stat caps, Chloe has -2 Str +1 Mag & +3 Spd, while Boucheron has +1 Str & +2 Spd, so She beats him by 1 spd, but he beats her with 2 max damage I’m right now running through what skills to run for him, Erika is still great, but Chrom does give him more damage +backup, Break defenses would also be cool, hmmmmmm!!!! XD thanks again for this breakdown!! Even after a year i think about how cool this build is & you sold me on Erika, hope you’re doin great!! Take care~
Wow, I didn't know fist weapons scaled off of half your str mag. I thought they were useless since they did no damage on my hardest hitting units, but I'll give them another good look, esecially on units ike Merrin
I figured it out when Framme's, damage was going up despite her mostly leveling magic. Then she had 5 straight levels of Strength and Speed going up and her damage just exploded, and then when I gave her an energy drop and her damage output went up by 1 instead, I had it figured out.. I then decide to refine and engrave her weapon because quadrupling everything for massive damage is just too good to pass up... This little thing is wiping out mages on enemy phase.. Breaking mages and thieves is superfluous when they rarely survive the second hit. Heh! So I've got an unpromoted monk straight up bodying everything that's not an armored unit.... Anyway I definitely plan on training some of my B-Team up in a similar fashion, but I'm still on chapter 10 of my first playthrough and I'm running without online services because I don't have a Nintendo Online subscription. So I don't even know yet whether or not I'm even going to have access to Tempest Trials. So far, without online enabled the Tower of Trials been the Tower of False Advertising, so I'm not holding my breath for Tempest Trials. Guess I'll find out in a few days.
This build is awesome on paper, but man, inheriting alacrity++ and speedtaker is gonna be VERY SP intensive. I don't think thats realistic to achieve on chloe unless you're doing a lot of skirmish grinding.
Definitely an interesting build. Atm, I have her as a Halberdier w/ the Azure Twins. I may create a different save file and see if I can work with this.
I dropped Chloe because she just wasn't keeping up with my other units, even though she was one of the first I promoted. Maybe I just got RNG screwed. But I think this Martial Master build would work really well for Anna. I originally promoted her to Warrior, and she ended up with a little more strength than magic. Then I swapped her to Sage, and now her str/mag have maybe 1 point difference. She's fast on top of that and has decent hp/def/res.
Ah, yes, the good ol FEH tactic of abusing Brave Weapons and damage additions. by making the unit attack four times, you get twice the effect everybody else does. this is how MAGIC BECAME EVERYTHING btw.
Did this with Boucheron (who has an easier to activate personal) and brave axes which he is pretty much the only one who can double with thanks to his build. Add in warrior class for merciless boosts.
I tried this on my second run after Chloe was an absolute monster of a unit as a griffin knight my first run. It definitely wasn’t in the same level but boy was it fun. I actually ran her and Jean as martial masters, Jean hit harder while Chloe Quad more often, putting them on quite evil footing to just have units run in and demolish anything in their way. Definitely not as strong as griffin knight Chloe but definitely a lot more fun. Downside tho is unless you have DLC, you have to wait till you get emblem byleth to give Chloe Art proficiency, but that does come right before getting emblem Eirika, who you really need to take this build to a while other level so it’s a trade off.
I did the same thing! I paired her with Sigurd at first, then with Edelgard once I got the DLC Emblems (because Weapon Sync's effect when Engaged is gross), then Eirika when I got her.
I'm currently doing an only girls maddening run and this idea came to my mind for Framme, Is it really worth it tho? I want to have a good rol for her, since Hortensia will be the main healer of the team once I get her.
Definitely trying it out! Getting so bored with invincible Grif knight Chloe, mine's at a point where she practically don't even need HP at all (40++ HP sitting idling as the only way she got hit was by chain attacks). I'm playing on hard only so i guess it's easier to try weirda55 builds hahaha! Thanks for this!!
Sssaaaammmeee I won’t lie, the invincible bonded shield is starting to make content a little too easy. I wanna spice it up and give characters builds that you wouldn’t exactly expect to work
Funnily enough I had a similar idea to this but using Fogado's unique class for high speed and the brave bow. Pretty much everything you stated here about azure twins applies for him and since he can get up to 40ish speed with some investment he can just naturally double most enemies. This left room for canter on him allowing him to run around the azure twins brace rocking peoples worlds with 5 + 30% enemy defense x 4 bow shots and than running away. With how many times he tends to hit he even recharges the engage meter super fast. He even straight up instakills 80+ hp 40 defense generals off of the true damage alone when I have Alear positioned nearby. Also your comment about enemy speed does become an issue late game. Most mounted units boast high 20's or low 30's speed. While Snipers, swordmasters, heroes, flying units and thieves boast high 30's speed stats. Basically anyone below 30 speed can forget about doubling non generals and will even tend to be doubled by most enemies. Basically need 40+ speed to consistently double at endgame maddening
Now this is a chloe build that actually makes sense for her on maddening instead of just being a worse griffon knight than other units. Can't wait to try this in my next maddening playthrough. Def gonna run speedtaker, and whatever tier of staff mastery I can scrouge up by lategame.
This build actually carried my first maddening run. Chloe was actually one rounding every unit on the map late game (armors, wyrms, bosses, didn't matter)
@@rhettmitchell You always quad wyrms and armors, and with flash fist giving +5 speed, +3 speed skill, and chloe's naturally high speed and +3 speed cap, you do end up quadding most non-swordmaster units
I ran some numbers, and I feel like Chloe is not substantially better at doing this then the Martial Monk the game hands you, Jean. At level 20 Martial Master, Jean will have a (Str+Mag/2) score of 20, and Chloe will be at 18. Once you factor in her personal, she is tying Jean, not beating him. When you look at the other stats, Chloe is noticeably faster (22 Spd vs 18 Spd) but if you hit the quad threshold, you have to take a return hit, and Jean is bulkier (19 Def vs 15 Def). Just a quick comparison, I think that the best Martial Master would be Mauvier. By a lot actually. At the same internal level (so actually MM level 4, because of his join level) he would have a combined score of 23, and a Def of 26. Blowing both Jean and Chloe out of the water in for both damage and bulk. He also splits the middle with a Speed of 20. Honorable Mentions to Merrin, with 1 more speed then Chloe, 3 more defense, but with a combined offense score of 1 less, and to Pannette who is MUCH slower then anyone else in this post, but is also at a combined offense score of 19 and with her personal and a higher dex then anyone else mentioned makes her more likely to crit then any of the others.
I'm going to try this on yunaka on my new maddening run. I figured since she has to wait till 21 to reclass and since zelkov takes over her role it's a good way to keep her viable also helps that she has an even 45 str and mag growth in the class and she gets a speed cap of 30 in it. Also I have no dlc so I'm probably going to just run canter and advance on her and I gotta wait for byleth to reclass anyway
Maddening does have the speed creep lategame. Swordmasters hitting 40 ish speed. Ill probably keep Chloe in griffon knight with a brave sword/levin sword combo
I would say Swordmaster is probably her best class in terms of raw stats and growths but Lapis all around is pretty versatile when it comes to any Sword class. For me personally I paired my Lapis with Lyn's ring, Vantage, and +20 Avoid. Even in late end game, she can pretty much solo most maps and a lot of enemies have 0% chance to hit. You could also have Alear or Yunaka eith Corrin's ring and they can tail behind her as well and they can tag team most maps. The only real downside with Lapis is that her res and def were pretty much average so whenever a hit did land, she was hurting a lot but if you have Tiki, you can cast divine blessing to give her that extra safety net. It's probably not the most optimal but definitely the build I've been running and at least on Hard, it has been working.
I did Axe Hero Lapis with Leif Emblem ring it's too bad Light Brand isn't too handy on her besides against Generals but the Master Lance and Killer Axe are fun for bending the main weapon triangle in your favor.
I made her a Lance Hero and gave her Lyn because I thought she would make great use of Alacrity and Speedtaker. Being my fastest unit, she makes great use of Alacrity and Speedtaker let's her activate it against more and more units (Her speed hit 40 one time). I put her on the front lines a lot, so I don't get much use out of Astra Storm, but Call Doubles is really great for pulling aggro and plugging up choke points
i am making her into a Halberdier. the class does have a spd penalty but she does have a great spd boost, and she gets more defense (which is helpful to her as well). my hope is that i can get her to be a dodge/crit queen in the class basically being Nephenee 2.0).
Amber - berserker is pretty fun, it's honestly just exploiting his super high strength scaling, same thing with making Boucheron as a sniper, or Lapis as a Swordmaster. if I had to suggest a strange one I'd say Etie as a Hero, or Jean as a Royal Knight, Saphir as a Wyvern Rider
These Relay battles seem really interesting, but I'm so far behind because I've been streaming the game and haven't gotten very far =( Currently up to Chapter 10
I decided to try this. I made a second save file just so I could go back to Griffon Knight Chloe, but I decided that I like this better. Now at the time she was Advanced level 12. (Or 32.) Goldmary at Advanced level 1 (21) had a higher attack than her. Chloe was giving underwhelming results, and I just got the Flashing Fist Art. So I was just like "fuck it" and decided to try this. I was kind of having a hard time catching her back up to her previous level, but a Skirmish taking place on the same map you get her in popped up, so I did that since that's a pretty damn good level to train staff users. I had an unarmed Louis guard the bridge, Chloe behind him, Yunaka wearing Corrin next to her, Seadall behind her and Anna and Ivy with an inventory full of healing staves on standby. (Just in case.) I had High Priest Anna killing the enemy units until the magic user was in reach of Louis. (Who at this point would be the only one who could damage him.) And then I would do what I did to get Framme up to level 20 in Chapter 3- Chain Guard with Chloe. Chloe would lose about 10 HP each turn, which is why I had Seadall and Yunaka. Seadall would heal her by 5 when the Player's Turn starts, and Corrin would give her the rest at the end of Yunaka's turn. So every turn I would have enough health to use Chain Guard again. I did this until she got up to level 8. At that point both healing and Chain Guarding would only give her 1 exp. So I was like "screw it" and decided to test her in battle. She was fine. She would get to somewhere between 24 (6x2 twice) and 4 (2x2 twice) damage depending on the unit. Chloe's natural Avo is pretty decent. (Or maybe it's just the class' Avo? Either way.) With Yunaka's Dragon Vein (which is fog, as anybody who watched the Corrin/Yunaka video knows) it brought it up to about 114, making the enemies hit chance about 20%. So she didn't get hit much. (And when she did I'd have Ivy heal her.) She was able to get up to level 10 by beatng the rest of the enemies up. But her attack was still kind of underwhelming. So I refined it to +5. Now she's averaging about 40 to 108 damage per turn. I gave her Canter before Chapter 11, so I didn't have to worry about grinding SP for that skill. (I'm still grinding for Speedtaker though.) Edit: I just gave the Flashing Art a Holy Engravement. (+1 Mt, -1 Weight, +20 Avo.) I may be creating a monster.
Maddening speed starts to hit 35-40 at around chapter 18/19. Maybe some Generals and Great Knights will have 26 ish speed. This build may unfortunately struggle on Maddening
I feel like you're exaggerating how fast the speed scales by a wide margin, though I don't have those exact numbers to check right now. I don't have saves that far back on my old playthroughs but I can see at my current one that the speed doesn't get higher than 28 on the bosses, and 21 on the normal enemies in chapter 17. Also checking my clear saves I can see that Wyverns on the final chapter of the game on maddening still only have 36 speed, and that's one of the faster classes. At endgame you could possibly have trouble doubling the fastest of classes, but if you used Speed +5, a flashing fist art, and cooked food, then you could very easily have 41 or more speed with Chloe (28 class max, +3 Chloe cap modifier, +5 from the weapon, +5 from the skill, realistically +0-2 from food). With speedtaker you could settle for 36 and still double any mages, halberdiers, berserkers, snipers, etc to scale into 46, which by adding any food buff means you're doubling even the wolf knights, or by using speed+3-5 doubling even the swordmasters. Obviously this is all assuming she doesn't get weighed down and is capped but by that point these are not necessarily hard conditions for Chloe to meet, especially if you waited a bit before reclassing.
High priest does have a 32 speed cap, so that could work after you max it on martial master. Still not high enough though. Ugh I knew there would be a catch with Chloé on this class
High priests also don't have the arts rank for flashing fist art and have way less build so it'd almost certainly end up slower. Speed +5 and flashing fist along with food at cap would be around 41-44 which is honestly enough to double most things even on maddening (provided she actually gets close to capping at all by the end)
Jean as a High priest is very good. He can handle pretty much any situation. Silver arts for physical damage Elfire for Magical damage And he can also use staves. I gave him starsphere for increased stat growth and combined with his personal skill all his stats keep going up
Quite the interesting build. I still prefer my griffen knight chloe with sigurd emblem, brionac weapon, and lance atk5 & lunar brace+. easy ohko hit and runs from range, high avoid, and doubles almost every enemy.
Not on Chloe, but my martial master Framme has been an absolute glass cannon with the Flashing Fist Art. The only thing she doesn't absolutely decimate on player phase are armor knights
There's this one skill that makes your character take less damage if he/she has weapon advantage and that it works with Arts vs knife/bow/tome. I'm curious if there's a viable way to use the Shielding Arts + that skill to make some sort of tank unit.
my Griffon Knight Chloe on maddening has a very high avoid and high crit I had to cripple her by using a ring that doens't help her anymore. It's not the build it's how you utilize them
This path is kinda locked to DLC I suppose. Chloe starts with Staff Prof but to get the Arts you would need Bond 6 Tiki which isn't hard at all to do, but is obviously paywalled. Then just promo to Griffin Knight and second seal over to Martial Master and done. Without the microtransaction though, this build is locked til Bond 6 Blythe and transitioning a starter unit that late is gonna be rough.
I don't think there are really staves that scale with MGC, there are some random skills that will alter stave potency and accuracy but mgc as a stat does not generally affect staves
Magic affects staff healing, and if Engage is anything like past FEs, is used in place of Dex in status staff accuracy calculations (while Res is used in place of Speed to determine evasion against them).
Looks good, i just really hate the growths on martial master, by the time you're level 20 in advanced class, you only have about an extra 3 mag compared to if you went griffon knight, and have sacrificed about 8 speed. Wish that class was just better lol.
I think the speed cap is the only problem. In late game maddening, foes pretty much have max stats. You'll just be doubling most foes, then doing single hits on enemy phase. Imo griffin knight is better because you'll have the same offensive stats but with way better speed. You'll be doubling with a much stronger weapon against these foes. If you stay lances, you can do flame Lance with awakening engrave, and brionac with a Lyn upgrade. Swords, you go Levin sword. Chrom is prolly the best emblem for her, as it boosts her mag +10 when engaged as well as a Robin chain attack. I sweep everything with that Chloe.
This build looks really fun but it won't work on late game maddening, also Merrin would do it better. Internal level 35 Merrin has +1 Spd and +2 BLD on IL 35 Chloe, as well as at least +1 attack, and Merrin gets 1500 SP at base, with just 1000 SP more she can get Speedtaker and +3 Spd. That said it still won't do much on maddening. SPD won't be the issue, with Flashing Fist, Speedtaker and Spd+3 alone Merrin could quad most things on maddening ch 26, even the Heroes. The problem lies in the attacking stat. Maddening enemies are really bulky. An endgame Warrior, for example has 82 HP and 27 Defense, a Halberdier has 35 Def, even the Thieves have 32. A 10/20/10 Martial Master Chloe (i.e internal level 40) on fixed growths would have a base attack of 22. Flashing Fist+5 has 14 mt, bringing the total base attack to 36. You're dealing 0 damage against Wyverns (0*4=0), and a Warrior isn't even a 2 round kill despite the quad (36-27=9 9*4=36 82-36=46). The weakest defense is Beserkers with 20 Def and 84 HP. Even here you're dealing 16*4, and would only kill with a crit. There are things to do that can boost your damage, but you will never be able to get your raw attack high enough to one round enemies even the quad.
Merrin actually uses this build better than Chloe does. Chloes only real advantage is having innate staff prof. so she can start doing this as soon as chapter 15. Merrin has way higher bases, this is because while her internal level is level 15, her stats are calculated as if she leveled up to 20 before promoting. This puts her stats so far above Chloes that by the time Chloe catches up, they're both capping stats anyway. Merrin has a 10% lower magic growth and a 5% lower speed growth but it doesn't actually matter. A level 10 promoted Chloe, leveled to 20 as a Martial Master, then class looped to level 5 will have lower stats in every area than a Merrin instantly reclassed and leveled to 20 besides hp. The difference actually makes up for Merrin's lack of extra damage from her personal skill.
3:23 Chloe has +3 to her speed cap, regardless of the class. Martial master gives her 31 speed cap
... If this video ruins my maddening run, I guess I only have myself to blame.
Same 🥲
Let me know if it works
Thoughts? I'm heavily debating it. On ch 18 maddening and I'm very much so debating to try MM out
@SweetCacao I finally made the jump...it is stupid good. Engrave the flashing fist with a crit bonus and...throw tons of high Damage hands ✋️
@@Varsona I personally struggled a lot, because she seems to struggle to fight any armored unit (of which, there are a lot of). It doesn't help that the latest DLC update gave GK Chloe a broken spear.
This is nice, was looking for an alternatives class for Chloe that wasn't a griffon knight, plus she looks pretty good as a Martial Master
I personally made mine a Wyvern Knight to bolster her lower strength & defense.
@@azurethescaletipper210 Griffin Knight Chloe in my maddening has high avoid and high crit, no need to have higher strength when you can crit and higher defense when you can avoid, avoid>defense on maddening all days since you can only tank 2 enemy at most on maddening but you can dodge many of their attack
Ive made chloe a mage knight for two runs and shes been a monster. Her high avoid with elsurge just dumpsters everything. And then a flame spear for some break utility if needed
The martial master outfit animations are excellent but Chloe is held back by her mega milkers. Flatter chars like Rosado elevate it to a new level
@@azurethescaletipper210 with which engage?
I've been using this build on Maddening and it's actually really good. I did adjust it because I wasn't going to get enough SP to get the skills demanded in this video, so I ended up just buying speed +3 and spending the rest of my SP on the highest tier of Avoid+ that I could afford from Marth.
I DID realize after getting Mauvier later on however that if I turned him into martial master his stats (besides his speed) would all be even better than Chloe's though, making him a better version of her in this role. All you have to do is give him 1-2 speed wings to match her speed, and the low speed cap of martial master might not even make that necessary anyways.
This is some great content!!! Didn't expect to see such a unique build on FE, keep it up!
Break Defense is good on her to enable her to hit Tomes, Daggers, and Bows 6 times. Necessary to pick up certain one round kills in tempest trials
Love genius build videos like these, keep it up!
I always wanted interesting video builds on engage. Thank you so much! 😍
I gotchu 😉
This is pretty amazing. Jean is my martial master atm. So I'll take a look at how this build could work in his favor. Thanks! Awesome video!
I actually prefer martial master on jade myself with hector. It evens out both of Jade's offenses at 45 and her defenses at 55. She invests in bulk rather than speed and relies on radiance (ike) engraved divine fist art and quick reposte to keep her damage output high while still having some very respectable defenses to boot. This subverts the issue of the low speed cap and because of hector's great additional defensive bulk she becomes a pretty effective mixed tank that can double without relying on speed.
what are the inherit skills for your jade?
@@edelgod6683starsphere, lifesphere, when she starts capping things I switch starsphere for atk/def 5
Just got this video recommend and yeah this sounds AMAZINGLY fun!
Thanks for the Effort. Looks incredible. Very nice alternative for Chloe, my MVP
This looks awesome! Have been planning to run her as a Griffon Knight for my first playthrough, but might fall back on this if it doesn't work out. I am planning on investing into Jean and making him a Martial Master though, and while he wouldn't get her awesome passive for boosting her damage, I imagine he'd fill this role pretty well with his growths as well. So we'll see how it goes!
Interesting builds like this are the reason I subbed to you!
Oddly enough, I've been running a similar build on my Martial Master Merrin + Eirika. Been sitting on 3k SP on her and been sitting in the Ring Chamber trying to figure out what Skills to inherit so this helps out a lot!
Maybe this would work for Mauvier well on maddening? I feel that this may be a waste of Chloe's high speed growth, while Mauvier instead has higher MAG and STR growth than Chloe (35 and 40 respectively for Mauvier, vs 25 and 35 for Chloe). I've been having trouble figuring out a unit to give Byleth to, without wasting any other emblems or best potential of any character. This might be a good solution, to add Mauvier to my main party and inherit him with Solar Brace and Canter. Video helped to figure this out, hopefully it works out nicely.
actually a good idea for him, you even keep the staff utility.
I just got Mauvier and all of his stats (besides his speed) are just better than Chloe's if you make him into a martial master. Sadly it looks like I'm going to have to try and come up with a different niche for Chloe to fill next time.
@@jackmanleblanc2518 I finished maddening a couple of days ago with Mauvier still as a martial master, it worked well enough. He was never going around obliterating enemies, given maddening, but he served well. I also had Chloe in my main party, though just as a griffin knight. Working toward clearing the post game now.
@@Skelux There's a post game?
@@codyhammond8123 Kinda. You unlock higher level tower floors, a new tower room, and skirmishes become readily available in maddening.
A list of units I’ve encountered with balanced str/mag stats growth potential.
*Clamme (who’s been gaining levels as a mage/sage/knight and he has very high dex/spd growths naturally)
*Framme (she starts with arts and is easy to manage and has even more speed growths than her twin brother but classes growths could affect that)
*Celine (Her Atk/Mag growths are almost the same as a Vidame and she has a chance to proc “Ignis” on all 4 hits)
*Lapis (go look at her growths and give her another try on your next playthrough. Don’t bench her this time)
*and to prevent spoils two of the in-game bosses are great options as one joins with a Flame lance to let you know that they are great at both physical and magical potential. And the other joins with a dagger that scales off magic, yet she still had better strength stats than my Yunaka.
Edit: I don’t know for sure if Ignis is a available once Celine is taken off of her Vidame class. If that’s the case that is unfortunate and a slight mistake on my part. My apologies.
@@TheBoodercg it's not, class skills only apply if you stay in that class, and can't be carried over to other classes.
Funny enough I've seen people use Celine as a swordmaster because of how high her str can get,but using her as a martial master is definitely an interesting one when you can get her str and mag + early on if you try
Super fun! I feel Ill equipped to optimize the azure twin swapping, so this helps provide some use cases
Still finishing my first playthrough and this looks like a fun idea. I'll have to keep it in mind for when I prepare for my maddening run.
this is brilliant
i was searching for a good arts build and i will definitely try this one out
You want to use Flashing Fist Art, not Divine. The bonus speed is necessary for not being doubled by things like Wyvern Riders in tempest trials, and enables you to double mages
Thank you so much for the suggestion. It's given me even more ideas to pla with and chloe is much more beast than I already thought.
This looks like a super fun build
I want to try this now
Chloe looks pretty cool doing some taijutsu.
Perhaps towards the beginning of these videos, you can have a sort of graphic that highlights the full build
What a fun concept, and wow if she doesn't look good as a martial, cool video
That seem super fun ! I want to try it ! 😆
Interesting, I might give it a shot on my next maddening lets play, thx for the idea.
Looks like Chloe is now the Avatar. Imagine her bending the elements.
I've been doing a brave axe rosado with erika's ring, the difference being that rosado is in a class with better spead so he could inherit canter+ and axe power 2, making him quad everything with some extra damege even in maddening.
I'm thinking this isn't even a bad enemy phase build if you're using Eirika, as in late game Maddening Sieglinde will just turn her into a delete button when engaged (I precisely gave Eirika to Griffin Chloe in my run, she was a no brainer dance target)
I'm so glad that im not the only one who loves the martial Master Erika build. I ended up going the fram route with it on my first playthrough while also giving gentility to my timera and golden momy to make them into a super strong front line with the ability to damage mode with the night/day ability or engage on fram.
Will probably try this on another save file. She's great as a Griffon Knight but doing alternate setups is always fun.
I was recently thinking about this when Acousticharmonia did his *MASSIVE* vid giving tons of breakdowns & builds, and for his Alear build, he suggested that Chrom is a great emblem for the +10 Mag practically giving +5 to arts, which *then* made me really look at this build & think “huh, this would be perfect for Boucheron to try out” XD
Looking at stat caps, Chloe has -2 Str +1 Mag & +3 Spd, while Boucheron has +1 Str & +2 Spd, so She beats him by 1 spd, but he beats her with 2 max damage
I’m right now running through what skills to run for him, Erika is still great, but Chrom does give him more damage +backup, Break defenses would also be cool, hmmmmmm!!!!
XD thanks again for this breakdown!! Even after a year i think about how cool this build is & you sold me on Erika, hope you’re doin great!! Take care~
I was thinking the same thing but with Celine since she ends up with 50% str and 45% magic
Also must be good on Jean then as he doubles class growths
I'm thinking about Celine personally, she has great growths in both if I recall correctly (hence her class skill)
@@PFairVoice Céline’s personal class is just too good and useful to take her out of, though. She can’t take swords, tomes, or ignis along with her
Wow, I didn't know fist weapons scaled off of half your str mag. I thought they were useless since they did no damage on my hardest hitting units, but I'll give them another good look, esecially on units ike Merrin
I figured it out when Framme's, damage was going up despite her mostly leveling magic. Then she had 5 straight levels of Strength and Speed going up and her damage just exploded, and then when I gave her an energy drop and her damage output went up by 1 instead, I had it figured out.. I then decide to refine and engrave her weapon because quadrupling everything for massive damage is just too good to pass up... This little thing is wiping out mages on enemy phase.. Breaking mages and thieves is superfluous when they rarely survive the second hit. Heh! So I've got an unpromoted monk straight up bodying everything that's not an armored unit.... Anyway I definitely plan on training some of my B-Team up in a similar fashion, but I'm still on chapter 10 of my first playthrough and I'm running without online services because I don't have a Nintendo Online subscription. So I don't even know yet whether or not I'm even going to have access to Tempest Trials. So far, without online enabled the Tower of Trials been the Tower of False Advertising, so I'm not holding my breath for Tempest Trials. Guess I'll find out in a few days.
This build is awesome on paper, but man, inheriting alacrity++ and speedtaker is gonna be VERY SP intensive. I don't think thats realistic to achieve on chloe unless you're doing a lot of skirmish grinding.
I think the best way to make it happen would have to be to use those SP items the dlc gave us.
Definitely an interesting build. Atm, I have her as a Halberdier w/ the Azure Twins. I may create a different save file and see if I can work with this.
I dropped Chloe because she just wasn't keeping up with my other units, even though she was one of the first I promoted. Maybe I just got RNG screwed. But I think this Martial Master build would work really well for Anna. I originally promoted her to Warrior, and she ended up with a little more strength than magic. Then I swapped her to Sage, and now her str/mag have maybe 1 point difference. She's fast on top of that and has decent hp/def/res.
I do the same build but w Jean, but dude ... Chloe fits this so well
Ah, yes, the good ol FEH tactic of abusing Brave Weapons and damage additions. by making the unit attack four times, you get twice the effect everybody else does. this is how MAGIC BECAME EVERYTHING btw.
FEH is p2w
@@MrVinic33 to win what? a throne PNG? FEH is pay to lose.
I had no idea arts used both mag and str for dmg clacs
Only place this game specifically tells you about that is in the tips at the top of the loading screen sometimes. XD
I was already considering to make her stronger for my second play through this build sounds awesome to try out
Did this with Boucheron (who has an easier to activate personal) and brave axes which he is pretty much the only one who can double with thanks to his build. Add in warrior class for merciless boosts.
I tried this on my second run after Chloe was an absolute monster of a unit as a griffin knight my first run. It definitely wasn’t in the same level but boy was it fun. I actually ran her and Jean as martial masters, Jean hit harder while Chloe Quad more often, putting them on quite evil footing to just have units run in and demolish anything in their way. Definitely not as strong as griffin knight Chloe but definitely a lot more fun. Downside tho is unless you have DLC, you have to wait till you get emblem byleth to give Chloe Art proficiency, but that does come right before getting emblem Eirika, who you really need to take this build to a while other level so it’s a trade off.
But can she compare muscles to etie?
Good vid.
if we get robin in a dlc and ge gives mag/atk + 8 or something this will be golden
What's funny is I stumbled on this build using Framme. I made her a Martial Master and currently have her paired with the Twins...
I did the same thing! I paired her with Sigurd at first, then with Edelgard once I got the DLC Emblems (because Weapon Sync's effect when Engaged is gross), then Eirika when I got her.
I'm currently doing an only girls maddening run and this idea came to my mind for Framme, Is it really worth it tho?
I want to have a good rol for her, since Hortensia will be the main healer of the team once I get her.
@@Chrisgarciam I've only played Normal, but from everything I've heard online, Framme is _basically_ good for nothing whatsoever on Maddening… :c
@@FlameUser64 I see, ty for the input! I will give it a try and see how it turns out 🥴
Ok I am most likely an idiot but how do I get Chloe to have martial skills
should do a video for swordmaster dodge tank anna ive been using her with tiki for stat growth and she is ridiculously op
Okay this is pretty cool
i actually made chloe a sage without checking stat growths so i guess i lucked out
Definitely trying it out! Getting so bored with invincible Grif knight Chloe, mine's at a point where she practically don't even need HP at all (40++ HP sitting idling as the only way she got hit was by chain attacks). I'm playing on hard only so i guess it's easier to try weirda55 builds hahaha!
Thanks for this!!
Sssaaaammmeee I won’t lie, the invincible bonded shield is starting to make content a little too easy. I wanna spice it up and give characters builds that you wouldn’t exactly expect to work
I made mine a mage
You can make her invisible by inheriting Corrin's Pair Up which prevents getting hit by chain attacks.
Funnily enough I had a similar idea to this but using Fogado's unique class for high speed and the brave bow. Pretty much everything you stated here about azure twins applies for him and since he can get up to 40ish speed with some investment he can just naturally double most enemies. This left room for canter on him allowing him to run around the azure twins brace rocking peoples worlds with 5 + 30% enemy defense x 4 bow shots and than running away. With how many times he tends to hit he even recharges the engage meter super fast. He even straight up instakills 80+ hp 40 defense generals off of the true damage alone when I have Alear positioned nearby.
Also your comment about enemy speed does become an issue late game. Most mounted units boast high 20's or low 30's speed. While Snipers, swordmasters, heroes, flying units and thieves boast high 30's speed stats. Basically anyone below 30 speed can forget about doubling non generals and will even tend to be doubled by most enemies. Basically need 40+ speed to consistently double at endgame maddening
Thanks for the heads up and I'll have to try out fogado now that you mention it 😉
Now this is a chloe build that actually makes sense for her on maddening instead of just being a worse griffon knight than other units. Can't wait to try this in my next maddening playthrough. Def gonna run speedtaker, and whatever tier of staff mastery I can scrouge up by lategame.
It's a cool, unique niche for her that I'm pretty sure no other unit can do as well as her. Well, except maybe for Jean but he's kind of a given.
This build actually carried my first maddening run. Chloe was actually one rounding every unit on the map late game (armors, wyrms, bosses, didn't matter)
On maddening? Even without quadding??
@@rhettmitchell You always quad wyrms and armors, and with flash fist giving +5 speed, +3 speed skill, and chloe's naturally high speed and +3 speed cap, you do end up quadding most non-swordmaster units
Anyone know how well this works on Maddening? It looks fun.
Yeeees i want to use this so bad
Love it. Gonna give it a try on my Maddening run.
It sounds good on paper. I'll give it a shot.
Update, really good. Just gotta get her some other defensive skills to survive.
I ran some numbers, and I feel like Chloe is not substantially better at doing this then the Martial Monk the game hands you, Jean.
At level 20 Martial Master, Jean will have a (Str+Mag/2) score of 20, and Chloe will be at 18. Once you factor in her personal, she is tying Jean, not beating him.
When you look at the other stats, Chloe is noticeably faster (22 Spd vs 18 Spd) but if you hit the quad threshold, you have to take a return hit, and Jean is bulkier (19 Def vs 15 Def).
Just a quick comparison, I think that the best Martial Master would be Mauvier. By a lot actually. At the same internal level (so actually MM level 4, because of his join level) he would have a combined score of 23, and a Def of 26. Blowing both Jean and Chloe out of the water in for both damage and bulk. He also splits the middle with a Speed of 20.
Honorable Mentions to Merrin, with 1 more speed then Chloe, 3 more defense, but with a combined offense score of 1 less, and to Pannette who is MUCH slower then anyone else in this post, but is also at a combined offense score of 19 and with her personal and a higher dex then anyone else mentioned makes her more likely to crit then any of the others.
I'm going to try this on yunaka on my new maddening run. I figured since she has to wait till 21 to reclass and since zelkov takes over her role it's a good way to keep her viable also helps that she has an even 45 str and mag growth in the class and she gets a speed cap of 30 in it. Also I have no dlc so I'm probably going to just run canter and advance on her and I gotta wait for byleth to reclass anyway
Maddening does have the speed creep lategame. Swordmasters hitting 40 ish speed. Ill probably keep Chloe in griffon knight with a brave sword/levin sword combo
What's that song you use in the middle of the video? Sounds like Justice
If it's the segment I think you're talking about; search ocremix Street fighter 2 Ryu interpretation
Can you also make a lapis build cause im trying to experiment her by using different inheritable as a backup
I would say Swordmaster is probably her best class in terms of raw stats and growths but Lapis all around is pretty versatile when it comes to any Sword class. For me personally I paired my Lapis with Lyn's ring, Vantage, and +20 Avoid. Even in late end game, she can pretty much solo most maps and a lot of enemies have 0% chance to hit. You could also have Alear or Yunaka eith Corrin's ring and they can tail behind her as well and they can tag team most maps. The only real downside with Lapis is that her res and def were pretty much average so whenever a hit did land, she was hurting a lot but if you have Tiki, you can cast divine blessing to give her that extra safety net. It's probably not the most optimal but definitely the build I've been running and at least on Hard, it has been working.
I did Axe Hero Lapis with Leif Emblem ring it's too bad Light Brand isn't too handy on her besides against Generals but the Master Lance and Killer Axe are fun for bending the main weapon triangle in your favor.
I made her a Lance Hero and gave her Lyn because I thought she would make great use of Alacrity and Speedtaker. Being my fastest unit, she makes great use of Alacrity and Speedtaker let's her activate it against more and more units (Her speed hit 40 one time). I put her on the front lines a lot, so I don't get much use out of Astra Storm, but Call Doubles is really great for pulling aggro and plugging up choke points
@@yesno7284 Yeah with Lyn I had a 46 SPD Lapis it was insane. Literally impossible to get hit
i am making her into a Halberdier. the class does have a spd penalty but she does have a great spd boost, and she gets more defense (which is helpful to her as well). my hope is that i can get her to be a dodge/crit queen in the class basically being Nephenee 2.0).
Amber - berserker is pretty fun, it's honestly just exploiting his super high strength scaling, same thing with making Boucheron as a sniper, or Lapis as a Swordmaster. if I had to suggest a strange one I'd say Etie as a Hero, or Jean as a Royal Knight, Saphir as a Wyvern Rider
These Relay battles seem really interesting, but I'm so far behind because I've been streaming the game and haven't gotten very far =( Currently up to Chapter 10
Join us anyways! 😃 the units other people deploy can carry certain maps
@@Varsona Alright, guess I'll have to try and jump in when you next post
I decided to try this. I made a second save file just so I could go back to Griffon Knight Chloe, but I decided that I like this better.
Now at the time she was Advanced level 12. (Or 32.) Goldmary at Advanced level 1 (21) had a higher attack than her. Chloe was giving underwhelming results, and I just got the Flashing Fist Art. So I was just like "fuck it" and decided to try this.
I was kind of having a hard time catching her back up to her previous level, but a Skirmish taking place on the same map you get her in popped up, so I did that since that's a pretty damn good level to train staff users.
I had an unarmed Louis guard the bridge, Chloe behind him, Yunaka wearing Corrin next to her, Seadall behind her and Anna and Ivy with an inventory full of healing staves on standby. (Just in case.)
I had High Priest Anna killing the enemy units until the magic user was in reach of Louis. (Who at this point would be the only one who could damage him.) And then I would do what I did to get Framme up to level 20 in Chapter 3- Chain Guard with Chloe.
Chloe would lose about 10 HP each turn, which is why I had Seadall and Yunaka. Seadall would heal her by 5 when the Player's Turn starts, and Corrin would give her the rest at the end of Yunaka's turn. So every turn I would have enough health to use Chain Guard again.
I did this until she got up to level 8. At that point both healing and Chain Guarding would only give her 1 exp. So I was like "screw it" and decided to test her in battle.
She was fine. She would get to somewhere between 24 (6x2 twice) and 4 (2x2 twice) damage depending on the unit.
Chloe's natural Avo is pretty decent. (Or maybe it's just the class' Avo? Either way.) With Yunaka's Dragon Vein (which is fog, as anybody who watched the Corrin/Yunaka video knows) it brought it up to about 114, making the enemies hit chance about 20%. So she didn't get hit much. (And when she did I'd have Ivy heal her.) She was able to get up to level 10 by beatng the rest of the enemies up.
But her attack was still kind of underwhelming. So I refined it to +5. Now she's averaging about 40 to 108 damage per turn.
I gave her Canter before Chapter 11, so I didn't have to worry about grinding SP for that skill. (I'm still grinding for Speedtaker though.)
Edit: I just gave the Flashing Art a Holy Engravement. (+1 Mt, -1 Weight, +20 Avo.) I may be creating a monster.
weird question, what version of dauntless blade did you used at the beginning?
It came from a rendition placed in SSBU
Maddening speed starts to hit 35-40 at around chapter 18/19. Maybe some Generals and Great Knights will have 26 ish speed. This build may unfortunately struggle on Maddening
I feel like you're exaggerating how fast the speed scales by a wide margin, though I don't have those exact numbers to check right now. I don't have saves that far back on my old playthroughs but I can see at my current one that the speed doesn't get higher than 28 on the bosses, and 21 on the normal enemies in chapter 17. Also checking my clear saves I can see that Wyverns on the final chapter of the game on maddening still only have 36 speed, and that's one of the faster classes.
At endgame you could possibly have trouble doubling the fastest of classes, but if you used Speed +5, a flashing fist art, and cooked food, then you could very easily have 41 or more speed with Chloe (28 class max, +3 Chloe cap modifier, +5 from the weapon, +5 from the skill, realistically +0-2 from food). With speedtaker you could settle for 36 and still double any mages, halberdiers, berserkers, snipers, etc to scale into 46, which by adding any food buff means you're doubling even the wolf knights, or by using speed+3-5 doubling even the swordmasters.
Obviously this is all assuming she doesn't get weighed down and is capped but by that point these are not necessarily hard conditions for Chloe to meet, especially if you waited a bit before reclassing.
If there update I hope they allow change costume to old one
Wouldn't Jean be better at this same role/build since his growths are pretty balanced?
Jean would be good too
High priest does have a 32 speed cap, so that could work after you max it on martial master. Still not high enough though. Ugh I knew there would be a catch with Chloé on this class
High priests also don't have the arts rank for flashing fist art and have way less build so it'd almost certainly end up slower. Speed +5 and flashing fist along with food at cap would be around 41-44 which is honestly enough to double most things even on maddening (provided she actually gets close to capping at all by the end)
how early can we do this?? doesnt Chloe need arts proficiency to be a martial master which is only available after we get the byleth ring??
Ye
Woah I never knew arts scales off str and mag /2. I’ll have to reevaluate Jean again
Jean as a High priest is very good.
He can handle pretty much any situation.
Silver arts for physical damage
Elfire for Magical damage
And he can also use staves.
I gave him starsphere for increased stat growth and combined with his personal skill all his stats keep going up
Hey, I'm trying to go for this build but I'm chapter 8 and I can't learn her how to use fists. Am I missing something ?
You'll have to wait till a bit after chapter 14 to do get fist access!
How can i get martial arts proficiency for Chloé for this build? I'm also not sure which classes i should give her to reach this any tips?
Martial arts proficiency can be gained from byleth's Emblem ring
@@Varsona awesome thanks!
I feel like I can use this idea for Franne.
My dude took double it and take it to another person to another level
YESSS. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
This build is actually kind of nuts holy crap. She's one of the highest damaging units on my team. Chapter 17, Maddening, random growths.
Quite the interesting build. I still prefer my griffen knight chloe with sigurd emblem, brionac weapon, and lance atk5 & lunar brace+. easy ohko hit and runs from range, high avoid, and doubles almost every enemy.
I use lapis instead Chloe. It worked fairly well
what's the music in the beginning?
Lords Showdown (SSBU Rendition)
Not on Chloe, but my martial master Framme has been an absolute glass cannon with the Flashing Fist Art. The only thing she doesn't absolutely decimate on player phase are armor knights
There's this one skill that makes your character take less damage if he/she has weapon advantage and that it works with Arts vs knife/bow/tome.
I'm curious if there's a viable way to use the Shielding Arts + that skill to make some sort of tank unit.
my Griffon Knight Chloe on maddening has a very high avoid and high crit I had to cripple her by using a ring that doens't help her anymore. It's not the build it's how you utilize them
We need build with 100% critic Medness play
It's so hard to get the specializations to class change though 😔
Right
This path is kinda locked to DLC I suppose. Chloe starts with Staff Prof but to get the Arts you would need Bond 6 Tiki which isn't hard at all to do, but is obviously paywalled. Then just promo to Griffin Knight and second seal over to Martial Master and done.
Without the microtransaction though, this build is locked til Bond 6 Blythe and transitioning a starter unit that late is gonna be rough.
Funny enough I didn't unlock Tiki until getting byleth's ring 😅
I don't think there are really staves that scale with MGC, there are some random skills that will alter stave potency and accuracy but mgc as a stat does not generally affect staves
Magic affects staff healing, and if Engage is anything like past FEs, is used in place of Dex in status staff accuracy calculations (while Res is used in place of Speed to determine evasion against them).
Can you make one for lapis or rosado?
SoonTM ❤️
Looks good, i just really hate the growths on martial master, by the time you're level 20 in advanced class, you only have about an extra 3 mag compared to if you went griffon knight, and have sacrificed about 8 speed.
Wish that class was just better lol.
I think the speed cap is the only problem. In late game maddening, foes pretty much have max stats. You'll just be doubling most foes, then doing single hits on enemy phase. Imo griffin knight is better because you'll have the same offensive stats but with way better speed. You'll be doubling with a much stronger weapon against these foes. If you stay lances, you can do flame Lance with awakening engrave, and brionac with a Lyn upgrade. Swords, you go Levin sword. Chrom is prolly the best emblem for her, as it boosts her mag +10 when engaged as well as a Robin chain attack. I sweep everything with that Chloe.
There is a point that I don't understand... How do we make Chloée eligible for the art class...? I dont find any emblem for this :/
Byleth
@@jackmanleblanc2518 oh thanks, i didnt notice
@@ZephirPGM No problem!
😮😮👍
Just tried this build with this character, and ended up enjoying it.
Chloe is one of four FE Engage girls I consider best girl.
This build looks really fun but it won't work on late game maddening, also Merrin would do it better. Internal level 35 Merrin has +1 Spd and +2 BLD on IL 35 Chloe, as well as at least +1 attack, and Merrin gets 1500 SP at base, with just 1000 SP more she can get Speedtaker and +3 Spd. That said it still won't do much on maddening. SPD won't be the issue, with Flashing Fist, Speedtaker and Spd+3 alone Merrin could quad most things on maddening ch 26, even the Heroes. The problem lies in the attacking stat. Maddening enemies are really bulky. An endgame Warrior, for example has 82 HP and 27 Defense, a Halberdier has 35 Def, even the Thieves have 32. A 10/20/10 Martial Master Chloe (i.e internal level 40) on fixed growths would have a base attack of 22. Flashing Fist+5 has 14 mt, bringing the total base attack to 36. You're dealing 0 damage against Wyverns (0*4=0), and a Warrior isn't even a 2 round kill despite the quad (36-27=9 9*4=36 82-36=46). The weakest defense is Beserkers with 20 Def and 84 HP. Even here you're dealing 16*4, and would only kill with a crit. There are things to do that can boost your damage, but you will never be able to get your raw attack high enough to one round enemies even the quad.
Celine would go DUMMY wit this too LOOOOOL
Merrin actually uses this build better than Chloe does. Chloes only real advantage is having innate staff prof. so she can start doing this as soon as chapter 15. Merrin has way higher bases, this is because while her internal level is level 15, her stats are calculated as if she leveled up to 20 before promoting. This puts her stats so far above Chloes that by the time Chloe catches up, they're both capping stats anyway. Merrin has a 10% lower magic growth and a 5% lower speed growth but it doesn't actually matter.
A level 10 promoted Chloe, leveled to 20 as a Martial Master, then class looped to level 5 will have lower stats in every area than a Merrin instantly reclassed and leveled to 20 besides hp. The difference actually makes up for Merrin's lack of extra damage from her personal skill.