Yah I’ve gotten customers like this lol. Literally the other day called me and said they are completely out of ice and I go there and it’s full. Went through everything and found no issue. Come to find out the manager turns the machine off at nights 🤦♂️
I fell in love with that too. All the one's I inherited from the last guys are a total rats nest. I try and tidy as I go but damn if it isn't an uphill battle.
You need to think much bigger, my guy: if I'm going to do something which is a clear TOS violation (if not being outright illegal), then I want a more profitable return than just being able to mess with my friends. Show us how to turn their computer into a cryptomining bot, or install a cutout that redirects some of the sales tax they pay on purchases into an account that I control. Seriously. This isn't even "White Hat" territory, because you're using a program somebody else wrote, which means it's a known exploit.
The machine with good cable management are usually the ones with the least issues. Two reasons. Neat workers are usually good workers. Second, it is often the trouble shooting that makes a mess that doesn't get cleaned up.
Good man, the customers get so much value from your service. Yeah, when it does not ad up it could be that somebody made a mistake. The employees usually do not own up to it, and I don't blame them, it's really tough for them as it is, they live difficult lives. As always you did all the right stuff. When an issue is a once off it was presumably an accident of some kind. We have those ones. Duncan
So true on the sequence of operation. First rule of troubleshooting - ASSUME NOTHING. You have to step through ALL the basics. I’ve known this for decades and yet (usually from hubris) I’ll sometimes skip something basic and 9 times out of 10 it bites me in the ass. Hard. So you would think I wouldn’t do it. Yet it’s so easy to convince yourself “oh, it couldn’t possibly be that tiny thing”. Ha! Murphy was indeed an optimist :) Nice video, as usual. Did you also point out the water softener beads? It seems like a post softener filter would a wise investment for them. Stuff happens.
Same with computer repair or anything else. Half the time people just forget to plug it in or something that simple, or said a previous repair man did x or y. Never trust anything and always start easy.
G Day,,we call them "Gremlins",,sat and watch a machine in a steel mill for four hours trying to get it to fault,,had enough and before i could leave the operator came running after me,told me it had just done it again,,Go Figure right,
@@Jonoth Happens in the automotive industry to. Hell even my own car did it this last week. You end up looking like an idiot to the customer when you can't replicate the problem. I had a fault take 2 weeks to replicate...turns out a signal wire was randomly grounding out. Just had to hit the right bump
Hey Chris, just want to thank you for all the videos you post. I’m still in school trying to emerge into this trade and I listen to a video of yours every morning on my way to work. Essentially you’re another one of my teachers. Thank you for all the education.
I appreciate the info. I have two of these in my Restaurant and this is a lot of info to help me troubleshoot problems before I call our maintenance techs. Especially right now where it takes forever to get one out because how busy they are.
Intermittent problems are incredibly difficult. Doing a PM was the best solution! Changing the two temp controls is a big picture solution. But I have to remind my self Keep It Simple Stupid, try not to over think these problems. Great Work!
If there’s beads from the softener, chances are it’s intermittent low water flow. Either the softener head is jammed/failing or the resin bed has collapsed and is plugging and restricting the flow. I’d definitely get a 5 micron filter on the inlet side ASAP.
With those peaces of plastic breaking of beeing such an issue my thought also was, if it wouldn´t pay to have at least some screen in front of the pump, so it does not get damaged. And depending on the plumbing I think putting a filter in front at the water supply should be a no brainer as well. But hard to guess what is needed as much as it depends on local water quality.
@@alexku8452 I was thinking the same thing. A nice suction strainer would be good on that pump. Also, why are those not thicker pieces of plastic? A sheet of ice dropping seems like a lot of weight for those thin pieces of plastic.
@@fortfun46835 because it's like printing money lol. 90% profit part you need every 6 months for the lifecycle or else it costs you thousands more sounds perfectly designed from an OEM standpoint.
@@mad1337nes If it was a consumer product there would be a safety recall on all machines because of little pieces breaking off going into the ice. Choking hazard. Making the plastic thicker or using a better plastic would be minimal cost.
Ice machines are frustrating and time consuming to diagnose! Could be as simple as a loose or corroded electrical! connection! Unfortunately you need to see a failure to be able to make a diagnosis and you spent alot of time trying to get a failure! So now you just have to wait and see what happens! Great video!
Intermittent faults are absolutely the worst thing when troubleshooting electronic/radio equipment! Big picture analysis helps but stuff happens and sometimes there's just no answer to be found and it ends up in a catastrophic failure (which makes it much easier to fix). Thanks for sharing Chris!
Did you clock the water fill because beads softener issues will cause slow fill timer for freeze does not start till float is satisfied and harvest time ends when sensor harvest is satisfied
Intermittent malfunction service calls are the absolute worst 😣. One of my HVAC buddies said his idea of hell is having a room full of boilers that are all going off on intermittent flame failure.
I too have been frustrated by newer Hoshizaki ice machines with those mechanical bin stats. We had a hamburger joint in Ann Arbor start back up, but the ice machine wouldn't start when they turned on the power. When I started pulling the panels off, the machine mysteriously started. The bin was totally empty, but once it started running, everything was textbook perfect. There was no code lock out. Nothing stood out as defective. The only thing that could have done it was a stuck mechanical bin stat, but I couldn't prove that either as it had no restrictions to movement.
knowledge is key , I enjoy watching your vids , because you understand the sequence of operation of the equipment you working on and always come to a solid well thought out diagnoses and repair #respect bro , Az checking in
Could of been someone turned off the switch....or maybe they panicked & left the bin door open to constantly watch the ice production, again, not being patient, & convincing their self that there was a problem when really, their impatience & leaving the bin door open was actually the real problem. ....or maybe both. They accidentally turned it off at the switch. Flipped it back on. Then the manager got involved; he leaves the bin door open & gets impatient & calls you. On these calls you just can't say, unless there is a video recording camera focused directly on the machine. But who wants to watch through 2 days worth of footage to try to see what may have transpired prior to them calling you?? -Not me. So, overall great detective work. It's kinda an unsolved mystery, but it's just going to have to go down on the books that way! Thanks again for teaching!!! See ya on the next one!
I'm sure the people designing this rack have thought about this, but it's there anything which prevents reverse air flow through the condenser fan motor when it's off? Otherwise, you might get more air being sucked through the fans that are off than through the condensers, especially in the condensers where the fan is off. And even if they have that, can they get stuck open?
Not me did it, lol, I have had a few of the newer bin level flappers that are intermittent, (7-10 in last 3 years) verified by several tries of slowly pushing in and out watching the lights on the board, when you get to the stage of gently releasing it will not go back into low bin status (Shows full still) and keep the machine off, then if you bump it unit will turn back on. Just a fyi on another thing to look for on hoshis
Judging from the ice in the bottom of the bin it's pattern suggests old ice it very well could be that the machine is shutting down by someone and or bad bin switch I have had that particular bin switch intermittent
Pretty sure in the UK, we wouldn’t soften water going into an ice machine. I’m in the east, the water practically comes out the taps in blocks. We run steam engines on site (4 lines all having their own softening regimes). Softeners for the hot water, dishwashers etc. Nothing that is for human consumption gets softened. We filter for the drinks and ice machines, but that’s all.
Some Ice makers won't harvest with softened water. As they rely on minerals in the water to sense harvest etc For example the old Manitowoc IM installation manual said no softener. We would normally use the big silver carbon everpure filters and that's all.
Those are problems... the mineral content in my Tap water here is so low in mmol/l, on my dishwasher at home I did a hardness test to check for the correct setting in the built in reverse osmosis softener dishwashers have here in Germany (I am aware that filling salt into US dishwashers is rare at most). Result was at the lower scale of telling me, "shut the softener off and be never bothered with needing salt at all". I think living here for 11 years I only had to descale one single faucet once ever.
I don't like ColdZones design on the temperature sensing. I have ran into problems with this design. reroute the probes and/or set the temperature setpoint lower. With head pressure control valves, I would have all three motors running at anything above 70 degrees two running above 60 degrees. One running continuously. Also, the order in which the fans sequence sometimes makes a difference. Sounds like intermittent slow production /bin switch. Of note, had a head pressure control valve sticking intermittently on a Cold Zone rack, causing all kinds of weird things to happen on a walk in freezer. Installers overcharged to try to compensate. I ended up changing the valve. I don't know about your area, but here in Alaska we had a couple of racks with undersized coils I guess they misjudged the temperatures in our area. Most of the coils in my area are sized based off of an 80 degree ambient I believe.
Just a thought on language barrier. You have a magical translation device on your wrist and in your pocket. I've found it to be better than having a human translate. Great info very thorough as always. Thank you Sir for extending your wealth of knowledge and experience to us all. OLT that ice machine looked pristine and new compared to the units I have been tasked with cleaning. Must be nice
Chris, I can see at 9:28 that you have the Veto TP-XL. I used to have that bag and gave it away. didn't like it but just purchased the new one TP-XXL to see if I can fit my cordless.
my old hoshisaki ice machine had the worst cube guides. they were missing like 20% if the little teeth. they lasted the entire machines life of 19 years. i got a new one early 2020 and its the best. digital display with all the settings youd ever want to make more ice or less and to clean and delime is so easy.
That machine can operate on a 500G/day RO unit, it can use a chlorine pass unit with no carbon block just fine. Get them OFF the sodium ion softener. If their ion exchange system is passing beads its also passing salt into the ice maker which will reduce and/or negate ice creation - but it does keep it cleaner. iSpring's 500GPD is $500 bucks (example) and you'd only need to add in one bladder to the path from the city water. You can get the chlorine safe membrane for it and skip the carbon then use two mechanical stages and even trim with rechargeable ion through a pro service if wanted. That crinkly on the ice looks a lot like salt splatter.
On the condenser rack I assume that each fan has some type of back draft damper to prevent air from flowing backwards through the fans that are off. This backwards flow would reduce flow through the coils. If there is a damper stuck open adjusting the temperature set point for that fan would "resolve" the issue. Do the rack fans have some type of back draft damper? Were they all operating properly? I don't believe that this was the issue because I didn't notice either of the fans spinning backwards. I just didn't see you check this. Is there any problems with my logic expecting there to be some type of back draft damper? With AHUs (air handling units) I have seen sequences of operations that required back draft dampers that the AHU manufacturer didn't provide. I have also seen incorrect sequencing of motorized back draft / isolation dampers causing problems.
The way I see it .the ice you showed that look kinda broken but it's not and the water softener that's may be working or something and it's filters not change regularly is a bad sign for ice machine. The way that ice looks like that is the filter need to be changed in the water softener because is clogged up and not filtering well and when that water is frozen in the tray it forms a white cracks in the ice when it goes to harvest mode .because of the max harvest mod you have it to avoid freezing something that I recall you said. . What I am trying to say is the untreated water when frozen is not clear like and treated water when frozen is clear. And when you put the untreated water is a hot glass of water it look like the ice you showed. In your case when it goes to harvest mod hot Discharge gas to those coils with basic kind trated water.. cool and awesome video.
How do these machines not keep log files on system cycle times, temp histories, pressures, and error codes going back weeks? Seems like some basic logging could save you hours of frustration.
YOur patience man ...... The pressure control cuts the power to the controller, or just the compressor ?. the controller could "could" check the low voltage drop in the contactor to see if it consistents with it commands. If commanded on, but somewhere else it was cut off, the drop on the contactor will read 0 and the controller know that something is overriding it.
Frozen block of ice cubes over the bin float. Top layers are melting due to low use. Normally wouldn't be a problem as the cubes move around, but the low use mean the backs probably not moving much.
Haven't watched the whole video yet but what popped into my mind is what if the 24/7 condenser fan motor tripped overload and the temp wasn't high enough to bring on the other fans? Are those controls on the roof sensing outdoor air? Loose wire or bad contactor on 24/7 fan?
Temperature controllers- you mentioned putting them inside but then concerned about low outside temperature. What about a third unit to sense outside air temp to disable the other two if it's too cold outside. Maybe best is small PLC for control. Multiple analog I/O and different scenarios to save energy. The main issue would be employee training on how it works. Everyone blames the magic box when something isn't working right. PLC can also be programmed to collect data and potentially troubleshoot problems.
For head pressure control, what do you think of the Icm333 or the icm326? Also what watch is that? I have the gear s3 and I'm thinking about upgrading.
Water softeners let go due to no salt in them. Please let the managers know when you see things like that. We had that issue and it killed our hot water heater at work. We had no hot water for about 3 days. Cleaning dishes with caked on sugar Carmel is very difficult when you don’t have hot water.
Naive question maybe but here it is: Beer coolers, ice makers...what is the demand for either one when in-house dining is not permitted? Is it for delivery and pickup orders? Chilled beer? How do they package that stuff? It is just bottles or cans for me since last March. I am hoping that ends soon.
@@craigmills6275 I'm in NH and making plenty of money and spending very little.Good for my bank account. Not good for me. I want to be able to socialize again.
Question for ya. On a manitowoc ice machine when you go into service mode why would it say it’s in “remove ice” cycle when that’s not a part of the sequence of operation. It has a new ice thickness probe on it, it’s been fully cleaned with a new water filter. Doesn’t go into safe mode but it will shut off randomly after it’s gone through this remove ice cycle. Any ideas???
Starting the condenser fan motors at lower ambient is a smart start. If a head presssurecintrol valve is failing..? At least you can all but eliminate cond fan operation with lower ambient settings
Screw a manual reset high pressure switch on the high side don't hook up to machine and see if it's tripped if problem persist just so you know if it's tripped on I use tattletales for problems like that
13:19 - Judging by the rough surface of the cubes, I'd say a good de-liming/descaling is in order. A clean Hoshi with well-filtered water should produce glass-clear cubes. Those lumps are either from a water softener or a filter, I'd guess. Then again, you're in Cali, maybe the ice machine was panning for gold? lol
Would it help to put a gentle reminder by the wall switch, something like "If you turn this OFF (down) then you will not get any more ice" Nicely printed on a Demo label.
16:18 Yeah, that looks exactly like water softener media to me. Little translucent or opaque balls. Hope they had a plumber come look at it after you left
100% The bin sensor is starting to fail. Those have personally been my biggest head scratchers. That and the cleaning valve being left open. Like seriously, WTF!?!?! Why is this not doing what it should be doing? Everything is as it should be!.....Oh. Now that is legit the first thing I always check before gauging up and/or pulling out the multi meter after standing there watching it make ice with my thumb in my bum for 2hrs.
If I had to make an educated guess , I would go for the bin switch. Seen many of those fail intermittently. Once the ice bin level reaches its lce level , that switch remains depressed for x amount of time . I’ve seen them failing to close and seen them fail to open creating an iced up evaporator coil . Those bin controls are notorious for failing 🙆🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️.
I have a remote Hoshizaki 2400 machine that will do this to me from time to time. I run cleaner and sanitizer and make sure everything is running good and wait 6 months for them to call me again for the same problem.
I am leaning towards the shutoff switch also. They need to label that switch so employees will not touch it. It is a free recommendation and might solve future nuisance calls. Just my .02
Hey guys! Long time no see. Really sucks, I kind of lost interest over the semester online. But I am back in class this semester, and back in full-blown HVACR mode. Can I ask where you got the little booklet for the ice maker with all the specs and stuff? Is it for "all" their ice makers? Or just that one?
No you don't want to. Just read your local restaurant inspection reports and you'll see "mold in the ice maker" is a VERY common problem, along with dirty pans and other objects being stored in the ice bin. Plus food occasionally in the ice bin.
6:58 / water, which is not really " dirty " , that could be captured and recycled into the process, is instead being introduced to the waste stream adding to the overall inefficiency of the operation.
Having those condenser fan temp set for an ice machine is not good the need the pressure to cycle of at 150 to keep oil return to the comp and the fan shut of to give head pressure for harvest . I had a machine set up totally on a rack system I had to fit a resistor on a probe to fool it into ending the harvest if the rack suction temp was high they will do your head in on a rack cheers thanks for that was good 👍
Yah I’ve gotten customers like this lol. Literally the other day called me and said they are completely out of ice and I go there and it’s full. Went through everything and found no issue. Come to find out the manager turns the machine off at nights 🤦♂️
Wiring on the roof unit is really well done, I've never seen a unit done that neatly
I fell in love with that too. All the one's I inherited from the last guys are a total rats nest. I try and tidy as I go but damn if it isn't an uphill battle.
When people start waffling on the story, it means somebody did something wrong and caught it before you got there, but they don't want to admit it.
You need to think much bigger, my guy: if I'm going to do something which is a clear TOS violation (if not being outright illegal), then I want a more profitable return than just being able to mess with my friends. Show us how to turn their computer into a cryptomining bot, or install a cutout that redirects some of the sales tax they pay on purchases into an account that I control.
Seriously. This isn't even "White Hat" territory, because you're using a program somebody else wrote, which means it's a known exploit.
@@Coffreek I'm genuinely curious what that initial comment you were responding to was about xD
Perfect video for a Sunday afternoon; greetings from Austria 🇦🇹
Fix oida 😂
This is really the first video from USA where somebody (machine on the roof) knows what the cable management is :D
The machine with good cable management are usually the ones with the least issues. Two reasons. Neat workers are usually good workers. Second, it is often the trouble shooting that makes a mess that doesn't get cleaned up.
Just watching this is so satisfying...been watching years after hard days work..this guy is a surgeon...
. . yup agree
Good man, the customers get so much value from your service.
Yeah, when it does not ad up it could be that somebody made a mistake.
The employees usually do not own up to it, and I don't blame them, it's really tough for them as it is, they live difficult lives.
As always you did all the right stuff.
When an issue is a once off it was presumably an accident of some kind.
We have those ones.
Duncan
Would it make sense in this instance to recommend replacing the 3-Ph switch with a guarded 3-Ph switch to reduce accidental shut-offs?
Sunday night video for me, going to enjoy it with a cold one Chris. Top quality video as always! Cheers from Aus
Sunday afternoon video for me🤣
Perth here 😂
So true on the sequence of operation. First rule of troubleshooting - ASSUME NOTHING. You have to step through ALL the basics. I’ve known this for decades and yet (usually from hubris) I’ll sometimes skip something basic and 9 times out of 10 it bites me in the ass.
Hard.
So you would think I wouldn’t do it. Yet it’s so easy to convince yourself “oh, it couldn’t possibly be that tiny thing”. Ha! Murphy was indeed an optimist :)
Nice video, as usual. Did you also point out the water softener beads? It seems like a post softener filter would a wise investment for them. Stuff happens.
Same with computer repair or anything else. Half the time people just forget to plug it in or something that simple, or said a previous repair man did x or y. Never trust anything and always start easy.
What horrible person left that zip-tie forest in the machine?!?!?!??! Lazy mo fo. lol
I do a lot of low voltage work and this is my pet peeve.
For the love of God grab the cutters and finish the job.
Its so nice to cut it too like wtf
Wow, the wiring looked really tucked in and neat. First time seeing that.
I’ve seen more ice look like that in the bins lately due to low volume buisness in the restaurants so the ice just sits in the bin too long.
Nice work as always.
G Day,,we call them "Gremlins",,sat and watch a machine in a steel mill for four hours trying to get it to fault,,had enough and before i could leave the operator came running after me,told me it had just done it again,,Go Figure right,
Story of my life, also work at steel mills. Same thing
@@Jonoth Happens in the automotive industry to. Hell even my own car did it this last week. You end up looking like an idiot to the customer when you can't replicate the problem. I had a fault take 2 weeks to replicate...turns out a signal wire was randomly grounding out. Just had to hit the right bump
Hey Chris, just want to thank you for all the videos you post. I’m still in school trying to emerge into this trade and I listen to a video of yours every morning on my way to work. Essentially you’re another one of my teachers. Thank you for all the education.
I appreciate the info. I have two of these in my Restaurant and this is a lot of info to help me troubleshoot problems before I call our maintenance techs. Especially right now where it takes forever to get one out because how busy they are.
Very good english accent, i am practising english and understand you 100% ,i am a HVAC from spain,great channel👍
Intermittent problems are incredibly difficult. Doing a PM was the best solution! Changing the two temp controls is a big picture solution. But I have to remind my self Keep It Simple Stupid, try not to over think these problems. Great Work!
That ice machine switch should be protected from unsavory team members.
if that was my store id have a box over it and maybe a lock on it.
Wire it in to the 3 phase, should keep them off it
Nice thorough video, big picture 👍🏽
Yeah I've noticed melting ice too since the whole covid thing now, just sitting there longer now.
The little beads are brine from the water softener, I would tell them it is time to replace the water softener or rebuild it.
If there’s beads from the softener, chances are it’s intermittent low water flow. Either the softener head is jammed/failing or the resin bed has collapsed and is plugging and restricting the flow. I’d definitely get a 5 micron filter on the inlet side ASAP.
With those peaces of plastic breaking of beeing such an issue my thought also was, if it wouldn´t pay to have at least some screen in front of the pump, so it does not get damaged.
And depending on the plumbing I think putting a filter in front at the water supply should be a no brainer as well. But hard to guess what is needed as much as it depends on local water quality.
@@alexku8452 I was thinking the same thing. A nice suction strainer would be good on that pump. Also, why are those not thicker pieces of plastic? A sheet of ice dropping seems like a lot of weight for those thin pieces of plastic.
@@fortfun46835 because it's like printing money lol. 90% profit part you need every 6 months for the lifecycle or else it costs you thousands more sounds perfectly designed from an OEM standpoint.
@@mad1337nes If it was a consumer product there would be a safety recall on all machines because of little pieces breaking off going into the ice. Choking hazard. Making the plastic thicker or using a better plastic would be minimal cost.
I had this in a smaller Hoshizaki, I did all these things. On a non remote unit.
Ice machines are frustrating and time consuming to diagnose! Could be as simple as a loose or corroded electrical! connection! Unfortunately you need to see a failure to be able to make a diagnosis and you spent alot of time trying to get a failure! So now you just have to wait and see what happens! Great video!
Nice. Hopefully you can put more videos about these ice makers. I work on them frequently. Thanks man
25+ years ago remembering the troubleshooting on Kold Draft ice machines that used R-502.
Intermittent faults are absolutely the worst thing when troubleshooting electronic/radio equipment! Big picture analysis helps but stuff happens and sometimes there's just no answer to be found and it ends up in a catastrophic failure (which makes it much easier to fix). Thanks for sharing Chris!
Did you clock the water fill because beads softener issues will cause slow fill timer for freeze does not start till float is satisfied and harvest time ends when sensor harvest is satisfied
Intermittent malfunction service calls are the absolute worst 😣. One of my HVAC buddies said his idea of hell is having a room full of boilers that are all going off on intermittent flame failure.
I too have been frustrated by newer Hoshizaki ice machines with those mechanical bin stats.
We had a hamburger joint in Ann Arbor start back up, but the ice machine wouldn't start when they turned on the power.
When I started pulling the panels off, the machine mysteriously started. The bin was totally empty, but once it started running, everything was textbook perfect.
There was no code lock out. Nothing stood out as defective.
The only thing that could have done it was a stuck mechanical bin stat, but I couldn't prove that either as it had no restrictions to movement.
knowledge is key , I enjoy watching your vids , because you understand the sequence of operation of the equipment you working on and always come to a solid well thought out diagnoses and repair #respect bro , Az checking in
Could of been someone turned off the switch....or maybe they panicked & left the bin door open to constantly watch the ice production, again, not being patient, & convincing their self that there was a problem when really, their impatience & leaving the bin door open was actually the real problem.
....or maybe both. They accidentally turned it off at the switch. Flipped it back on. Then the manager got involved; he leaves the bin door open & gets impatient & calls you.
On these calls you just can't say, unless there is a video recording camera focused directly on the machine.
But who wants to watch through 2 days worth of footage to try to see what may have transpired prior to them calling you??
-Not me.
So, overall great detective work. It's kinda an unsolved mystery, but it's just going to have to go down on the books that way!
Thanks again for teaching!!!
See ya on the next one!
Really nice clean new looking rack I'm surprised I've only seen you working on junky old racks
that wall switch need a cover plate with a toggle cover.
How do you deal with high ambient temps on a remote unit. Ice maker is in Phoenix AZ. Remote condenser on the roof with summer temps between 110-120.
I'm sure the people designing this rack have thought about this, but it's there anything which prevents reverse air flow through the condenser fan motor when it's off? Otherwise, you might get more air being sucked through the fans that are off than through the condensers, especially in the condensers where the fan is off. And even if they have that, can they get stuck open?
the set-up you're referring to is a AHU damper system... have never seen a rack with the damper setup except on an air handling unit.
@@BeezyKing99 I was thinking of something gravity and pressure activated, but that would work too, until it doesn't.
Big picture diagnosis nice chris! Keep it up
1:55 I just gotta say, that wiring is freaking beautiful. I love seeing good cable management
You my friend are an example to ALL🙏
Not me did it, lol, I have had a few of the newer bin level flappers that are intermittent, (7-10 in last 3 years) verified by several tries of slowly pushing in and out watching the lights on the board, when you get to the stage of gently releasing it will not go back into low bin status (Shows full still) and keep the machine off, then if you bump it unit will turn back on. Just a fyi on another thing to look for on hoshis
Judging from the ice in the bottom of the bin it's pattern suggests old ice it very well could be that the machine is shutting down by someone and or bad bin switch I have had that particular bin switch intermittent
Pretty sure in the UK, we wouldn’t soften water going into an ice machine. I’m in the east, the water practically comes out the taps in blocks. We run steam engines on site (4 lines all having their own softening regimes). Softeners for the hot water, dishwashers etc. Nothing that is for human consumption gets softened. We filter for the drinks and ice machines, but that’s all.
Some Ice makers won't harvest with softened water. As they rely on minerals in the water to sense harvest etc
For example the old Manitowoc IM installation manual said no softener. We would normally use the big silver carbon everpure filters and that's all.
Those are problems... the mineral content in my Tap water here is so low in mmol/l, on my dishwasher at home I did a hardness test to check for the correct setting in the built in reverse osmosis softener dishwashers have here in Germany (I am aware that filling salt into US dishwashers is rare at most). Result was at the lower scale of telling me, "shut the softener off and be never bothered with needing salt at all". I think living here for 11 years I only had to descale one single faucet once ever.
What a nice video to end my Sunday
Greetings from Greece
Very interesting nice troubleshooting video Chris
I don't like ColdZones design on the temperature sensing. I have ran into problems with this design. reroute the probes and/or set the temperature setpoint lower. With head pressure control valves, I would have all three motors running at anything above 70 degrees two running above 60 degrees. One running continuously. Also, the order in which the fans sequence sometimes makes a difference. Sounds like intermittent slow production /bin switch. Of note, had a head pressure control valve sticking intermittently on a Cold Zone rack, causing all kinds of weird things to happen on a walk in freezer. Installers overcharged to try to compensate. I ended up changing the valve. I don't know about your area, but here in Alaska we had a couple of racks with undersized coils I guess they misjudged the temperatures in our area. Most of the coils in my area are sized based off of an 80 degree ambient I believe.
Just a thought on language barrier. You have a magical translation device on your wrist and in your pocket. I've found it to be better than having a human translate. Great info very thorough as always. Thank you Sir for extending your wealth of knowledge and experience to us all. OLT that ice machine looked pristine and new compared to the units I have been tasked with cleaning. Must be nice
Chris, I can see at 9:28 that you have the Veto TP-XL. I used to have that bag and gave it away. didn't like it but just purchased the new one TP-XXL to see if I can fit my cordless.
I have had good luck putting a large Fieldpiece meter and a Milwaukee M12 in the Veto MB3B.
@@analogmoz : But not for the tools I need to carry.
my old hoshisaki ice machine had the worst cube guides. they were missing like 20% if the little teeth. they lasted the entire machines life of 19 years. i got a new one early 2020 and its the best. digital display with all the settings youd ever want to make more ice or less and to clean and delime is so easy.
did you get a new hoshisaki or another brand?
That machine can operate on a 500G/day RO unit, it can use a chlorine pass unit with no carbon block just fine. Get them OFF the sodium ion softener. If their ion exchange system is passing beads its also passing salt into the ice maker which will reduce and/or negate ice creation - but it does keep it cleaner. iSpring's 500GPD is $500 bucks (example) and you'd only need to add in one bladder to the path from the city water. You can get the chlorine safe membrane for it and skip the carbon then use two mechanical stages and even trim with rechargeable ion through a pro service if wanted.
That crinkly on the ice looks a lot like salt splatter.
Very interesting info about three salt !! Thanks bud
On the condenser rack I assume that each fan has some type of back draft damper to prevent air from flowing backwards through the fans that are off. This backwards flow would reduce flow through the coils. If there is a damper stuck open adjusting the temperature set point for that fan would "resolve" the issue. Do the rack fans have some type of back draft damper? Were they all operating properly? I don't believe that this was the issue because I didn't notice either of the fans spinning backwards. I just didn't see you check this.
Is there any problems with my logic expecting there to be some type of back draft damper?
With AHUs (air handling units) I have seen sequences of operations that required back draft dampers that the AHU manufacturer didn't provide. I have also seen incorrect sequencing of motorized back draft / isolation dampers causing problems.
The way I see it .the ice you showed that look kinda broken but it's not and the water softener that's may be working or something and it's filters not change regularly is a bad sign for ice machine. The way that ice looks like that is the filter need to be changed in the water softener because is clogged up and not filtering well and when that water is frozen in the tray it forms a white cracks in the ice when it goes to harvest mode .because of the max harvest mod you have it to avoid freezing something that I recall you said. . What I am trying to say is the untreated water when frozen is not clear like and treated water when frozen is clear. And when you put the untreated water is a hot glass of water it look like the ice you showed. In your case when it goes to harvest mod hot Discharge gas to those coils with basic kind trated water.. cool and awesome video.
How do these machines not keep log files on system cycle times, temp histories, pressures, and error codes going back weeks? Seems like some basic logging could save you hours of frustration.
YOur patience man ...... The pressure control cuts the power to the controller, or just the compressor ?. the controller could "could" check the low voltage drop in the contactor to see if it consistents with it commands. If commanded on, but somewhere else it was cut off, the drop on the contactor will read 0 and the controller know that something is overriding it.
lexan is plastic, Those r 8" deep hotel pans. The Dishie needs to get to scrubbing, they r Dirty.
Source: I'm Chef been in the business 24 yrs
Frozen block of ice cubes over the bin float. Top layers are melting due to low use. Normally wouldn't be a problem as the cubes move around, but the low use mean the backs probably not moving much.
Haven't watched the whole video yet but what popped into my mind is what if the 24/7 condenser fan motor tripped overload and the temp wasn't high enough to bring on the other fans? Are those controls on the roof sensing outdoor air? Loose wire or bad contactor on 24/7 fan?
Great job and video like always
Great work and thanks for the awesome content stay safe and take care
Temperature controllers- you mentioned putting them inside but then concerned about low outside temperature. What about a third unit to sense outside air temp to disable the other two if it's too cold outside.
Maybe best is small PLC for control. Multiple analog I/O and different scenarios to save energy. The main issue would be employee training on how it works. Everyone blames the magic box when something isn't working right. PLC can also be programmed to collect data and potentially troubleshoot problems.
I’m not sure if you have. Did you check the distribution tube on top of evap grid?
I haven't used Viper ice machine cleaner. Doesn't 'nickel safe' have phosphorus in it which hurts the welds on hoshis?
For head pressure control, what do you think of the Icm333 or the icm326? Also what watch is that? I have the gear s3 and I'm thinking about upgrading.
Water softeners let go due to no salt in them. Please let the managers know when you see things like that. We had that issue and it killed our hot water heater at work. We had no hot water for about 3 days. Cleaning dishes with caked on sugar Carmel is very difficult when you don’t have hot water.
Naive question maybe but here it is: Beer coolers, ice makers...what is the demand for either one when in-house dining is not permitted? Is it for delivery and pickup orders? Chilled beer? How do they package that stuff? It is just bottles or cans for me since last March. I am hoping that ends soon.
I’m not sure about beer sales. But everywhere else besides Cali and ny are making money.
@@craigmills6275 I'm in NH and making plenty of money and spending very little.Good for my bank account. Not good for me. I want to be able to socialize again.
Good one Chris 👍
15:19 just givin' it a good how ya doin' mama LOL
Watching you videos while doing my monthly billing. #hvaccontractorlife
Question for ya. On a manitowoc ice machine when you go into service mode why would it say it’s in “remove ice” cycle when that’s not a part of the sequence of operation. It has a new ice thickness probe on it, it’s been fully cleaned with a new water filter. Doesn’t go into safe mode but it will shut off randomly after it’s gone through this remove ice cycle. Any ideas???
Starting the condenser fan motors at lower ambient is a smart start. If a head presssurecintrol valve is failing..? At least you can all but eliminate cond fan operation with lower ambient settings
Screw a manual reset high pressure switch on the high side don't hook up to machine and see if it's tripped if problem persist just so you know if it's tripped on I use tattletales for problems like that
13:19 - Judging by the rough surface of the cubes, I'd say a good de-liming/descaling is in order. A clean Hoshi with well-filtered water should produce glass-clear cubes.
Those lumps are either from a water softener or a filter, I'd guess. Then again, you're in Cali, maybe the ice machine was panning for gold? lol
Cheers for my Sunday night video? Enjoying it with a vodka and orange cheers Chris keep safe dude
Would it help to put a gentle reminder by the wall switch, something like "If you turn this OFF (down) then you will not get any more ice" Nicely printed on a Demo label.
16:18 Yeah, that looks exactly like water softener media to me. Little translucent or opaque balls. Hope they had a plumber come look at it after you left
Make up a booklet with questions and answers and point. A Spanish and english diagnostic flowchart might help.
someone totally flipped the switch and didn't want to admit to it.
100% The bin sensor is starting to fail. Those have personally been my biggest head scratchers. That and the cleaning valve being left open. Like seriously, WTF!?!?! Why is this not doing what it should be doing? Everything is as it should be!.....Oh. Now that is legit the first thing I always check before gauging up and/or pulling out the multi meter after standing there watching it make ice with my thumb in my bum for 2hrs.
If I had to make an educated guess , I would go for the bin switch. Seen many of those fail intermittently. Once the ice bin level reaches its lce level , that switch remains depressed for x amount of time . I’ve seen them failing to close and seen them fail to open creating an iced up evaporator coil . Those bin controls are notorious for failing 🙆🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️.
i had the same problem on hot days with dirty condenser,the hps turns the machine on and off, in my case i washed the condenser.
I like the new haircut, Chris! (or perhaps it's a non-haircut?) In any case, it looks good on you - the beard too!
Looks like you were in my neck of the woods. 😀
Another great one from "vid the kid" thanks for sharing 📹
I'm my experience with hoshi machines plugged fill valves usually throw a long harvest code intermittently
I have a remote Hoshizaki 2400 machine that will do this to me from time to time. I run cleaner and sanitizer and make sure everything is running good and wait 6 months for them to call me again for the same problem.
I am leaning towards the shutoff switch also. They need to label that switch so employees will not touch it. It is a free recommendation and might solve future nuisance calls. Just my .02
why so much for a water pump, is that just the factory price? it looks like the water pump would be easier to replace than even the ice guides
Thermistor might be putting it in long harvest time sometimes. On scottsman, they usually do that, don't know about hoshizaki though.
Hey guys! Long time no see. Really sucks, I kind of lost interest over the semester online. But I am back in class this semester, and back in full-blown HVACR mode. Can I ask where you got the little booklet for the ice maker with all the specs and stuff? Is it for "all" their ice makers? Or just that one?
In restaurants and so ,it is common to call because there is panic at minimun,issue.
Never eating ice from a machine again 😶🌫️
No you don't want to. Just read your local restaurant inspection reports and you'll see "mold in the ice maker" is a VERY common problem, along with dirty pans and other objects being stored in the ice bin. Plus food occasionally in the ice bin.
Just saw the zip tie forest. Good upside, bad job inside.
Is that A scroll or reciprocating compressor?
Great job letting the machine do it cycles itself most want to start adjusting and hurry the machine up you exhibit a lot of
Could that funny looking ice be from leaving the cover open and ice melting?. Do these machines have a bin cover?
Can't believe no filters! those micro beads are not good to ingest!
Watching the videos makes me curious why are the cube guides not made out of Stainless steel instead of breaking grade Chinesium
That machine is set to make some huge ass cubes. Floats bottomed out
6:58 / water, which is not really " dirty " , that could be captured and recycled into the process, is instead being introduced to the waste stream adding to the overall inefficiency of the operation.
Ice machines seem like a pain in the butane.🥃🤔
Stay safe.
Retired keyboard super tech.
Wear your safety glasses.
Having those condenser fan temp set for an ice machine is not good the need the pressure to cycle of at 150 to keep oil return to the comp and the fan shut of to give head pressure for harvest .
I had a machine set up totally on a rack system I had to fit a resistor on a probe to fool it into ending the harvest if the rack suction temp was high they will do your head in on a rack cheers thanks for that was good 👍