Honestly I semi agree with you, Mirage 2k is not on my good side. I disagree with the Eagle tho, with as datalinks as missiles, and the ability to have JDAMs and the F-15E having way better stuff
I own the F15C, the M2K and the Grippen C. I agree that the F15C is like the most meta of the three but the plane i'm having the most fun right now is by far the M2K, beeing able to fire MICA while beeing almost defending is amazing.
I play sim haven't flown the mirage yet but when I fight the mirage in the f15, f16 or mig29smt I do everything I can to keep that thing away from me the second you merge is death for you if I remember right the mica em is thrust vectoring
@@anorangutan511 8 Amraams, 240 countermeasures, Great climb and top speed It can just spamraam you and play like a rat M2k still my baby though, patiently awaiting the year long bug report for proper countermeasures to pull through
5:37 Notice the initial seeker FOV on the Magic 2 is actually smaller than on the PL-5EII and R-73, you can notice the difference with the R-27T and R-73 as well, meaning right off the rail it has better IRCCM and given the sheer booster acceleration it closes the gap so much faster than the other IRCCM missiles that make it that much more strong in IRCCM
Yea no it was weird when they nerfed the flight model and took away some of its CMs it used to have like 170-190 right? Either way its still really good both in air and ground battles.
@@sebastiankillin7940they replaced a lot of small caliber CMs by large CMs iirc. Honestly the new FM is better than before under 900kph imo, pop your airbrakes and you'll turn extremely fast
Currently researching the F1C so I'm almost there. I guarantee they're gonna absolutely gut this thing by the time I unlock it. I've been flying the C-S4 regularly to get used to the airframe and it has my highest K/D in the game. M2K supremacy baby
"if you have less than 6 ARH missiles your coming to the fight undergunned" "you fight with locking the target with HMD and defend" meanwhile the F-4F ICE.
Also noteworthy to mention that the MICA-EM missile actually reaches targets fastest in 10km ranges of all Fox-3 missiles due to higher acceleration and lower weight than other Fox-3 missiles, still shouldn't have so much drag coefficient after the booster runs out but I guess that's just a balancing factor
the mirage can be fun but i find im far more often in a situation where i wish i had longer range on the missile than harder pull, and most other fox 3 can still pull decently hard with a bit of lead unless its a literal stall fight
Never ended up in that situation, I usually fire 2 MICAs in BVR at 20km and am still able to turn around and disengage, MICAs are extremely fast so I usually get atleast one kill out of the two
@@patriotic-panda they changed the flight model and the fly by wire instructor, the aircraft is very limited when turning at speeds sub 800kmh compared to before
this, tbh the 12.3 Mirage 2000 are really affected by this because the meta in that BR Range is mix of dogfight and dodging, it sucks I died to F-4S due to being a brick when I reach under 800 kmh.
@@dannycage8672 they nerfed its sustained turn speed by a grand total of, 3 degrees. it really doesnt make a difference in game, especially when it can still point its nose anywhere it wants
I’ve been having a fantastic time in the new F16C, even with the bugged FM. Derbys aren’t quite on the level of the MICA in terms of maneuverability, but I like to call the MICA Jrs, because they’re still insanely maneuverable. The 2km shot, the Derby is the only other Fox 3 I’d give a chance to hit that. On top of the Derby, you can bring both Derbys and AMRAAMs at the same time on it, making it incredibly versatile, and it gets 240 CMs, all on an F16 FM. One of my favorite top tiers currently, you should give it a try
Kurnass is 11.3 even though it has no pulse Doppler radar and no all aspect missiles. Every games an up tier too so it fights F-14s and you can’t use radar missiles because one piece of chaff makes radar useless.
PL-5E2 is faster and has more range than the Magic II. The range is greater because the caliber is smaller, and it has around 100m/s higher DeltaV. It's basically the same situation as the PL-7 vs the PL-5B. However, unlike those two, pull and AoA matter a lot more at top tier, as HMD exists and planes are more maneuverable and faster. I guess this is why Gaijin didn't add the PL-8B? It would have the best gatewidth IR in the game.
It feels pretty good to fly rn, current flight model retains energy very well around mach 1, and the fact that most fight still happened within 20km bc ppl just fire missiles closer to ensure the probability of kill makes mica actually competitive since it's strength is maneuverability at shorter range.
I have massive skill issues in the 2000-5F. Feel like i never have the reach to clap and staying low makes me sit dead in the water while also pulling so much less AoA than everything else despite supposedly being a delta wing. Seems like a different game for you
On top of that all M2000 are actually super fun in simAB as if you can play the information deny game of sneaking close to enemies (since no red/blue icons in sim) and absolutelly dominate them, and that includes M2000-S4/5 literally forcing F14s to ragequit if you can consitently fly low and use terrain. This in my opinion because M2000s are deltas that are great ins single circle fights and have western proper RWR that literally is more usefull than radar
Still crazy how the f16c barak ii has the same flight model as the f16d. This long after a patch and a jet still has the wrong flight model. The F16C barak ii is essentially an f16A with a bette radar and more countermeassures. But shares a flight model with a twin seater heavy boy f16d….
@@rodneycook3674 i tested both through a few tests. And both jets perform exactly the same. Same turn rate, same acceleration and same climb rate. The F-16C block 50 turns 2 seconds faster at peak turn rate and also in full hold S
Mirage 2000-5F is goated. Unnecessarily good radar, OP close range MICA and decent IR missiles that are lethal within 2 km or less rear aspect especially. I run 4x MICA and 4x Magic 2 most of the time cause everyone either flies low and rarely fly higher than 60 m and unless you're an F-15 people rarely run more flares than chaff. Never BVR (although you can within 20 km), every engagement is 5-10km. Also it's extremely fuel efficient so you really only need 25 mins fuel plus drop tank and be conservative once your fuel drops at about 20 min. EDIT: 5:36 - The R-27ET is the same gatewidth IRCCM and is technically (read: absurdly) faster than the Magic 2/PL-5E2. 🤧
Its gatewidth is not quite as strong as the 3 short range missiles, that’s why I didn’t include it. By default based on numerical values alone, it is less flare resistant
It is still gatewidth IRCCM, so it’ll be difficult to flare rear aspect either way. In a practical sense, I wonder how different they truly are. Probably not much, the main issue would be its close-range shooting ability isn’t as good as the magic 2 or R73 because of how fast it flies straight after launch, you lose a lot of angle. It requires a lot more lead to make work at close range, similar issue to the PL5.
My biggest flaw with top tier is i am so stingy with my missiles that is rarely fire unless its likely its a kill when i should be launching to force people defensive more often.
Yup the mirage 2000 is fun. In sim if i have to fight one i do everything to keep it defensive the mica ems do wild stuff when you pull crazy aoa in a dogfight and the mica em can be used in the dogfight unlike the amraam
One of the few planes where I can get an ace every match without fail. The only way I die is if I fuck up. Mirage is the best when engaging with HMD. Anything with 16 KM is a 70% chance of connecting. Within 8k or below You can legit launch with a 90% that you are going to connect on your launch. Cant wait for them to fully implement the flight model/ ablitity to lock its G torrences for long range shots.
In my opinion though, the Su27 is actually good in terms of countermeasures and is very competant in the off boresight fight (Even better than the f-15c!) and BVR. The problem with the mirage 2000 is that it lacks the ability to contest people with their six pointing to you as MICA and magics lacks range and Mirage cant hold its speed well.
I love the fact that the range is bad in game, on purpose. Because IRL, don't worry mica has more range than R77 and Aim120. Mirage2k in Ukraine is scaring the russian, because of MiCA fox3.
No, as long as you still have the target on radar you’ll be good. Even using TWS. The grey circle just means the missile doesn’t see the target well enough to have a good launch, but it can use the data link of your radar to compensate for this.
i generally do allow the radar to keep the hard lock cuz the full radars on the aircraft get stronger/more solid locks than the seeker’s radar (on early fox 3s) so there’s no reason not to unless you need to fire off another
It does but for some reason in war thunder it continues giving the amraam datalink guidance so even if a target notches the missiles radar it’ll use the aircraft radar to hit regardless.
m2k is a 1v1 god.... the best you can to against m2k is trading a kill. i didn't think i ever actually lost 1 v 1 playing m2k (not count the time that i has no idea where fcuk is the guy i am fighting with is). if you flying toward m2k and it lunch MICA at you under 6km, you are dead (unless you were already defending or multipathing) BTW i love fucking with F-15 while playing m2k... it is like free food lmao
For me the MICA just sucks, it´s nowhere near it´s real life perfomance, but obviously it needed to be nerfed because it would be too op otherwise, but at least they could have given it similar range to AMRAAM and a better thrust vectoring because making it the worst fox-3 in the game does just not serve justice to the MICA.
Did you not watch the video bro? You know all fox-3's are artificially nerfed or else maps would be too small( still are) like amraam max range irl is 120km and f-15 flight performance ( as well as other planes ) are artificially nerfed as well anyway still r-77 is miles to worse than mica , mica is one of the best missiles imo but aim-120 is just meta for range
@@FunFishFactsthe amraam D has maybe 100km range. The amraam A def does not. And no. The F-15 is not underperforming, and before you quote “20% less thrust than it should” you should know those are under specific conditions
No, it’s the worst plane you can fly. Same with the F15C and J10..don‘t listen to seek. Pls keep flying F4 ICE and Tornado…pls
lol
Honestly I semi agree with you, Mirage 2k is not on my good side. I disagree with the Eagle tho, with as datalinks as missiles, and the ability to have JDAMs and the F-15E having way better stuff
easiest most obvious rage bait (i get the joke dw i love my torny but by god its annoying to play at topteir)
@@meepthunder8060 It was so much fun bullying the F-14 IRIAF players with the F.3 Late.
@@RiflesGunnerno way u thought he was being serious
As a mirage main I hate this video, now gaijin is going to nerf the m2k because france isnt allowed to have fun.
nailed it
This aged well, I just got it and finally got the MICAs researched and I can't do shit lol
I own the F15C, the M2K and the Grippen C. I agree that the F15C is like the most meta of the three but the plane i'm having the most fun right now is by far the M2K, beeing able to fire MICA while beeing almost defending is amazing.
The MICA is extremely fast too, it reaches targets much faster than amraams
I play sim haven't flown the mirage yet but when I fight the mirage in the f15, f16 or mig29smt I do everything I can to keep that thing away from me the second you merge is death for you if I remember right the mica em is thrust vectoring
I have su27sm and am over halfway on my way to f15c ( i cant wait to have a competitive airframe )
What strength does the F15C have over M2K? I don't see it, personally. M2K is just better
@@anorangutan511 8 Amraams, 240 countermeasures, Great climb and top speed
It can just spamraam you and play like a rat
M2k still my baby though, patiently awaiting the year long bug report for proper countermeasures to pull through
5:37 Notice the initial seeker FOV on the Magic 2 is actually smaller than on the PL-5EII and R-73, you can notice the difference with the R-27T and R-73 as well, meaning right off the rail it has better IRCCM and given the sheer booster acceleration it closes the gap so much faster than the other IRCCM missiles that make it that much more strong in IRCCM
I just wish the M2K's flight model didnt get changed. Also still missing around 50 CMs. =/
Yea no it was weird when they nerfed the flight model and took away some of its CMs it used to have like 170-190 right? Either way its still really good both in air and ground battles.
thisss, its feels heavier after the nerf. but i think they fix the chaff dump amount from 3 to 1
@@sebastiankillin7940 168
Its supposed to have 112 chaff and 97 flares. So it’s missing quite a few countermeasures
@@sebastiankillin7940they replaced a lot of small caliber CMs by large CMs iirc.
Honestly the new FM is better than before under 900kph imo, pop your airbrakes and you'll turn extremely fast
Currently researching the F1C so I'm almost there. I guarantee they're gonna absolutely gut this thing by the time I unlock it. I've been flying the C-S4 regularly to get used to the airframe and it has my highest K/D in the game. M2K supremacy baby
They buffed it 👍
Seeeek bro stop exposing all my favorite planes theyre gonna nerf them 😭
good
this plane already got nerfed awhile ago
They should rollback the upgrades given to the BAZ Mesuphar
"if you have less than 6 ARH missiles your coming to the fight undergunned" "you fight with locking the target with HMD and defend" meanwhile the F-4F ICE.
I learned suprisingly much from this video. Thanks!
Also noteworthy to mention that the MICA-EM missile actually reaches targets fastest in 10km ranges of all Fox-3 missiles due to higher acceleration and lower weight than other Fox-3 missiles, still shouldn't have so much drag coefficient after the booster runs out but I guess that's just a balancing factor
the mirage can be fun but i find im far more often in a situation where i wish i had longer range on the missile than harder pull, and most other fox 3 can still pull decently hard with a bit of lead unless its a literal stall fight
Never ended up in that situation, I usually fire 2 MICAs in BVR at 20km and am still able to turn around and disengage, MICAs are extremely fast so I usually get atleast one kill out of the two
It’s just a different play style to get used to. Mica em’s are nasty at close range
They killed the 1v1 dogfight performance. But I guess all you have to do is HMD sling a MICA during the fight and you are good.
What kills the 2k in a 1v1? I have yet to find one that does
@@patriotic-panda they changed the flight model and the fly by wire instructor, the aircraft is very limited when turning at speeds sub 800kmh compared to before
this, tbh the 12.3 Mirage 2000 are really affected by this because the meta in that BR Range is mix of dogfight and dodging, it sucks I died to F-4S due to being a brick when I reach under 800 kmh.
@@dannycage8672 they nerfed its sustained turn speed by a grand total of, 3 degrees. it really doesnt make a difference in game, especially when it can still point its nose anywhere it wants
@@muhamadafrifauzi5695 sounds like you just dont know how to play it, because in no world should you have died to an F4S
I’ve been having a fantastic time in the new F16C, even with the bugged FM. Derbys aren’t quite on the level of the MICA in terms of maneuverability, but I like to call the MICA Jrs, because they’re still insanely maneuverable. The 2km shot, the Derby is the only other Fox 3 I’d give a chance to hit that. On top of the Derby, you can bring both Derbys and AMRAAMs at the same time on it, making it incredibly versatile, and it gets 240 CMs, all on an F16 FM. One of my favorite top tiers currently, you should give it a try
Just need the FM fixed and then its best plane in the game
@@profiarrow would make it worse though. Thing already flies like a UFO
Pl12 is insane maneuverability
Mlu still not having 9ms or 120s yet and incorrect cm amount (90vs60) and all f16 except a being same BR as f15? Gaijin balancing at its finest
F-16A which only has aim9l is 12.7 while F-16A ADF with aim9l and aim7m is 13.0 btw
Yeah it’s so dumb
Kurnass is 11.3 even though it has no pulse Doppler radar and no all aspect missiles. Every games an up tier too so it fights F-14s and you can’t use radar missiles because one piece of chaff makes radar useless.
@@FunFishFacts Netz which only has IR as well is at 13.0
@batlax18 yeah netz with only 60 cm and only ir missiles is a very big underdog at 13.0. It can still hold its own but barely.
PL-5E2 is faster and has more range than the Magic II. The range is greater because the caliber is smaller, and it has around 100m/s higher DeltaV. It's basically the same situation as the PL-7 vs the PL-5B. However, unlike those two, pull and AoA matter a lot more at top tier, as HMD exists and planes are more maneuverable and faster. I guess this is why Gaijin didn't add the PL-8B? It would have the best gatewidth IR in the game.
It feels pretty good to fly rn, current flight model retains energy very well around mach 1, and the fact that most fight still happened within 20km bc ppl just fire missiles closer to ensure the probability of kill makes mica actually competitive since it's strength is maneuverability at shorter range.
Actually the most competitive top tier jet is the AV8B plus
I have massive skill issues in the 2000-5F. Feel like i never have the reach to clap and staying low makes me sit dead in the water while also pulling so much less AoA than everything else despite supposedly being a delta wing. Seems like a different game for you
On top of that all M2000 are actually super fun in simAB as if you can play the information deny game of sneaking close to enemies (since no red/blue icons in sim) and absolutelly dominate them, and that includes M2000-S4/5 literally forcing F14s to ragequit if you can consitently fly low and use terrain. This in my opinion because M2000s are deltas that are great ins single circle fights and have western proper RWR that literally is more usefull than radar
If only the vertical TWS scan wasn’t 3 degrees
Still crazy how the f16c barak ii has the same flight model as the f16d. This long after a patch and a jet still has the wrong flight model. The F16C barak ii is essentially an f16A with a bette radar and more countermeassures. But shares a flight model with a twin seater heavy boy f16d….
It feels better than the D. I just got done spading both of them. I think the stat card is wrong.
@@rodneycook3674 i tested both through a few tests. And both jets perform exactly the same. Same turn rate, same acceleration and same climb rate. The F-16C block 50 turns 2 seconds faster at peak turn rate and also in full hold S
@@Marco-cg7fbthe block 40 isn’t an A, it still has all the extra weight of any C model past the 30
@@jaek__ It also isn't an F-16D, so it SHOULDN'T have the extra weight of the electronics and second seat.
@@creepincreepy261 yes but it shouldn’t turn like an A like the guy is saying
Gotta hand it to the Mirage 2000. I'm glad it's in its own spotlight. My favorite plane of all time.
Mirage 2000-5F is goated. Unnecessarily good radar, OP close range MICA and decent IR missiles that are lethal within 2 km or less rear aspect especially. I run 4x MICA and 4x Magic 2 most of the time cause everyone either flies low and rarely fly higher than 60 m and unless you're an F-15 people rarely run more flares than chaff. Never BVR (although you can within 20 km), every engagement is 5-10km. Also it's extremely fuel efficient so you really only need 25 mins fuel plus drop tank and be conservative once your fuel drops at about 20 min.
EDIT: 5:36 - The R-27ET is the same gatewidth IRCCM and is technically (read: absurdly) faster than the Magic 2/PL-5E2. 🤧
Its gatewidth is not quite as strong as the 3 short range missiles, that’s why I didn’t include it. By default based on numerical values alone, it is less flare resistant
@@SeekerHead 😟 welp the numbers don't lie, but to me it feels like a faster R-73. Thanks for the clarification though 💪
It is still gatewidth IRCCM, so it’ll be difficult to flare rear aspect either way. In a practical sense, I wonder how different they truly are. Probably not much, the main issue would be its close-range shooting ability isn’t as good as the magic 2 or R73 because of how fast it flies straight after launch, you lose a lot of angle. It requires a lot more lead to make work at close range, similar issue to the PL5.
@@SeekerHead27ETs are far more resistant AT RANGE due to the range bands.
I just got the numbers for you, ET is 1.33, the 3 close range ones are 0.75 IRCCM FOV. So a considerable difference actually.
My biggest flaw with top tier is i am so stingy with my missiles that is rarely fire unless its likely its a kill when i should be launching to force people defensive more often.
I swear 50% of my deaths in top tier are to MICAs. The fact that most France players know what they’re doing doesn’t help
Yup the mirage 2000 is fun. In sim if i have to fight one i do everything to keep it defensive the mica ems do wild stuff when you pull crazy aoa in a dogfight and the mica em can be used in the dogfight unlike the amraam
The 13.7 f15 for japan is lowkey the best, it has basicly an aim 9m but 40gs of pull and better irccm, it carry 4 and ontop 8 aim120s
If they fix some of the MICA bug reports and add a proper loft angle, it wouldn't suck at range
One of the few planes where I can get an ace every match without fail. The only way I die is if I fuck up. Mirage is the best when engaging with HMD. Anything with 16 KM is a 70% chance of connecting. Within 8k or below You can legit launch with a 90% that you are going to connect on your launch.
Cant wait for them to fully implement the flight model/ ablitity to lock its G torrences for long range shots.
I wish DCS had a new variant like this M2K
Only 2 530D-s and 2Magic2-s are holding back an otherwise excellent plane
If the J10 had more countermeasures it would be close to the mirage 2000k meta but still not on par.
F-16ADF is same BR as Gripen A💀💀💀
The Israeli F16 a is worse doesn't even get radar missiles at 13.0
@@Yucioq- the belgian f16a don't have radar missile in 13.3 💀
@@Favorye yeah ik that plane is pure pain just Uptiers all the time but atleast aim9m's
Because it's the A-10 FM with 6 9Ms. It's really not in that bad of a spot. @@Favorye
1:47 Has enough countermeasures… then uses 50 for one missile.
my beloved m2kf
In my opinion though, the Su27 is actually good in terms of countermeasures and is very competant in the off boresight fight (Even better than the f-15c!) and BVR. The problem with the mirage 2000 is that it lacks the ability to contest people with their six pointing to you as MICA and magics lacks range and Mirage cant hold its speed well.
The mirage holds its speed incredibly well at High speed.
Now thats an opinion that only a french main would agree with
Nice Good shot the mirage the bird I really want
2:25 yeah nah, it's terrain masking 100%
I have 2 radar missles on the mig 29g and almost every game is an up tear
Tbh (you are going to hate this take), I've had a lot more fun flying the Iranian f14 than any top tier. Farkours and swing wing dogfights are elite
mirage my beloved
I totally agree with everything you say also please spend your warbonds they are at the limit 😁
I love the fact that the range is bad in game, on purpose. Because IRL, don't worry mica has more range than R77 and Aim120. Mirage2k in Ukraine is scaring the russian, because of MiCA fox3.
mirage2k in ukraine doesnt exist.
a new challanger approaches
how do i fly regular su27 vs fox missiles cant do nothing have no modules
Why is my mirage auto flaring as soon as someone shoots a missile at me ? It runs aout flares and shafts in seconds
missile approach warning, you can turn off the auto flare in settings
5:45 isnt the AAM-3 the fastest IR missile?
Pretty sure it’s the R27ET
Pretty sure the the Pl-8 or Python 3 is the fastest short range IR missile, and the magic is faster than the AAM-3
Do the AMX A-1A
In doubt, Mica it out
Does it necessary to wait for 2 red circles in fox3 when you are under 16 km?
No, as long as you still have the target on radar you’ll be good. Even using TWS. The grey circle just means the missile doesn’t see the target well enough to have a good launch, but it can use the data link of your radar to compensate for this.
can u make a video about the israeli f16c?
it has ammram and derby so u can do bvr and close range combat
NOOO NOT THE MICAH
Well, I hope the taiwanese one will be as good
does maintaining hard lock while it's on pitbull mode help guide the missile?
i generally do allow the radar to keep the hard lock cuz the full radars on the aircraft get stronger/more solid locks than the seeker’s radar (on early fox 3s) so there’s no reason not to unless you need to fire off another
@@godwhacker thanks, i thought when its on pitbull mode its totally ignore plane radar and use its own
It does but for some reason in war thunder it continues giving the amraam datalink guidance so even if a target notches the missiles radar it’ll use the aircraft radar to hit regardless.
@@angelnunez6476US bias
@@angelnunez6476any evidence of this? I’m curious
m2k is a 1v1 god.... the best you can to against m2k is trading a kill. i didn't think i ever actually lost 1 v 1 playing m2k (not count the time that i has no idea where fcuk is the guy i am fighting with is). if you flying toward m2k and it lunch MICA at you under 6km, you are dead (unless you were already defending or multipathing) BTW i love fucking with F-15 while playing m2k... it is like free food lmao
Nooooo the secret is out 😢
Nice plane
This is just a less competitve Gripper/J-10 lmao
mica gaming!
No way i did 1000th like
Nah the Meta is Su27sm I love it forever and ever
For me the MICA just sucks, it´s nowhere near it´s real life perfomance, but obviously it needed to be nerfed because it would be too op otherwise, but at least they could have given it similar range to AMRAAM and a better thrust vectoring because making it the worst fox-3 in the game does just not serve justice to the MICA.
It is in no way the worst fox3
Did you not watch the video bro? You know all fox-3's are artificially nerfed or else maps would be too small( still are) like amraam max range irl is 120km and f-15 flight performance ( as well as other planes ) are artificially nerfed as well anyway still r-77 is miles to worse than mica , mica is one of the best missiles imo but aim-120 is just meta for range
@@FunFishFactsthe amraam D has maybe 100km range. The amraam A def does not. And no. The F-15 is not underperforming, and before you quote “20% less thrust than it should” you should know those are under specific conditions
@@FunFishFactswe do have aim120a’s in game rn, but i thought it was the 120c and d’s that had the 120km+ effective range? could def be wrong
@@patriotic-panda AMRAAM D3s range sits around the 180km mark under optimal conditions.
war thunder is so lost. played since 2014, best times were Hunter,mig17 top tier. this missile nonsense has ruined the game
you can still play those jets bruh they ain’t get removed from the game unc
Negative
1nd
3st
Multipathing is a myth