Finding 5e's Missing Weapons
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Let's reverse engineer the D&D weapon and armor rules to fill in the gaps the designers left with some weapons and armor from pop culture and history.
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I still remember seeing an entire half page illustration of nothing but polearms in the AD&D players book, and being awestruck.
Yeaaas! I loved seeing the Cleveland Museum of Art's magnificent polearm collection as a kid www.google.com/search?q=cleveland+museum+art+polearms&tbm=isch
I remember that from the BECMI M-book 😆 I had to memorize all the names and shapes. Nowadays knowing that the list isn't exhaustive and the naming conventions aren't so clear cut.. well it's a little different but I'm still a huge nerd 🤣
To my way of thinking, the shield is the defensive/armor category that has the most to gain by adding specializations. From the spiked shield to the tower shield to the buckler, I'm here for shield variety! :-)
What would a tower shield do??
Tower shield can be mobile cover. Historically, the Hussite peasant army would use something similar, the shield had a "kickstand" and soldiers would load and loose crossbow bolts from relative safety.
I would love more flavor to shields! There are so many different types of shields that just leaving at 2ac feels bad
@@ZipperonDisney I use one in my game. As a bonus action you can raise it up to hide behind it; it drops your speed by 5, and gives you half cover (so +2 to AC and to Dex saves vs ranged attacks). Also weighs more.
For 5e shields, I leave them all as +2 AC for ease of compatibility and differentiate them in other ways.
Most shields can be used for a shield bash, which turns off the AC bonus until your next turn and functions like an off-hand club for 1d4.
A big tower shield is too unwieldy to use in that fashion (no "light" property) but is big enough that you count as 3/4 cover to your allies, instead of half cover. (Soldiers in a formation will use these to basically all give each-other cover bonuses, making them a nightmare to kill.)
A shield with blades or spikes might count as an off-hand dagger instead of a club, if you use it for an off-hand attack.
I'm testing a "parrying dagger" feat on an NPC. If they're holding a dagger in the off-hand but not using it to attack, it counts as a shield. Mostly it's flavour, but also you can still *throw* it like a dagger if you get into a pinch, or use the thing as a coup-de-grace.
I don't have rules for bucklers but I'd probably make them throwable like a light hammer, because Mordhau showed me how fun it is to fling a buckler like a frisbee.
Mithril armor already exists and does remove strength requirements while halving the weight. Frodo's shirt was just the magic item Elven Chain. Great video!
Thanks for the info! Missed/forgot about that!
To fill in a gap in the ranged weapons category, I introduced my players to the warbow. A primarily strength based weapon with a minimum strength requirement of 16. It has the same range as a longbow, but does more damage (one die bigger than longbow).
Damn i spent so much time trying to figure out how wotc made the weapons to make my own weapon list and you just handed the best info for free at a click of a youtube video, thank you so much!!!! ill be revisiting my weapon list to make sure i dont break any of the rules. Again thank you so much!!
Let me know what you come up with! I'd love to hear
Finesse, reach, martial = spiked chain/meteor hammer is such an inspired idea, dude!
Glad you think so! I really wanted to make a chakram (you know, like Xena) but it didn't make the cut
Zipperon Disney too many people would expect to Xena it and have it bounce through enemies and return.
When I'm thinking "Finesse Reach weapon" for 5e, my brain always goes to "Vampire Killer from Castlevania." Even though that's more like a giant flail and all the Belmont characters are ripped as hell.
Meteor Hammer and/or Kusarigama would be great for that niche, IMO. They're the sort of thing that a normal soldier would turn their nose up at, but an especially dextrous and confident adventurer might take a shine to.
Mechanically I'd just make them Martial weapons, like a Whip already is, but I'd want the character to give some background on how and why they learned to use such an unusual weapon!
Thank you, this helped me with understanding weapons a bit more and gave me a good means to add slight progression to a character's sword.
to start, a character might have a Greatsword doing 1d12 damage. Through honing his skill, the weapon becomes a +1 Greatsword dealing 2d6 damage. And once you mastered the weapon, it becomes a +2 Greatsword that deals 3d4 damage. add a few minor properties, and you have a blade worthy of a name, which in anyone else's hand is nothing more than that average 1d12 Greatsword.
I think its a good idea to give new brewed weapons a .5 damage increase for it will encourage the player to pick that weapon rather than the common weapon you see at every table.
That is a very good point! Give 'em a (theoretical) carrot to engage with the new design
@@ZipperonDisney Its exactly what you want to do. If they dont pick these options then there was no real point of making these weapon brews because it turned out not to be practical at all. We want it to be practical.
Way more respect for you quoting Shadiversity's fantastic reaction to the BatWeapon
Without it, I knew the comments would be filled with folks saying how the direflail is an awful weapon lol. AND I looked really hard for a clip from batgirl, but couldn't find a good one! (not paying to watch bad TV!)
As far as shields go, since they were a go-to for defense before body armor was even considered, they really SHOULD have more prevalence in D&D.
I think since the standard D&D shield is considered a medium armor proficiency, the progression of shields should be:
Buckler - Light Armor (+1 to AC)
Heater - Medium armor (+2 to AC)
Tower - Heavy armor, 15STR prerequisite, disadvantage on DEX checks (+3 to AC)
Maybe I'm approaching the drawbacks of a tower shield from too realistic a standpoint though... But a shield that big would also be unwieldy and affect mobility.
The buckler being a light armor feature means your swashbuckling duelist rogues can use it.
Like where you're heading! One drawback I see is it's much easier to doff a shield than armor, so the disadvantage won't be too big a penalty
0:37 A man after my own heart! 🦞😘
I will point out that Mithril plate already DOES exactly what you say it should do "Mithral is a light, flexible metal. A mithral chain shirt or breastplate can be worn under normal clothes. If the armor normally imposes disadvantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks or has a Strength requirement, the mithral version of the armor doesn't."
GOOD CATCH!
Sometime ago I wrote a homebrew to make weapons, where I assigned points to each property and capped the max points you could add to a weapon to 10, so you could mix and match properties to make any crazy weapon you wanted
is there a link you can drop?
5e's combat becomes so much better if you add a few simple traits, like a larger crit range or the ability to move away from the first enemy you hit without provoking opportunity attacks (Mobile but only on one attack) or bonuses to hit against specific types of armor.
Scimitars, Shortswords, and Rapiers become so much better if you give one of them Light, one of them Versatile (d8), and one of them an ability to crit on 19s and 20s, or have a higher chance to hit enemies wearing lighter armor (natural hide / leather), or hell you could even give them an innate parry ability like the Noble stat block to get a reaction to add +2 against one attack (but that might be a bit OP.)
I really liked the weapon feats UA because they made them each feel special
@@ZipperonDisney The damage type feats in Tasha's really helps weapons feel like more than just numbers, and it gives your character a reason to use a specific damage type. It unfortunately doesn't invoke the same "signature weapon" feeling that the Weapon Feats UA did, but it's nice to feel like my Warhammer or Battle Axe is doing something better than the average weapon.
Weapons do have a hidden property that is if they are susceptible to disadvantage underwater, might be interesting to factor in even though it rarely comes up in most play.
Great point!! 👍 I wonder if we could invent more environmental rules (e.g. heavy wind)
It hasn't come up in-session yet, but my current campaign is set on the water. There's a few homebrew fantasy weapons that the aquatic civilisations use that give them the edge fighting underwater, compared to the gunpowder weapons common on land.
"That's a longsword you can throw!"
Tomb of Annihilation did that, sort of. The Yklwa weapon is a simple weapon, d8 piercing damage. The drawback is its range is only 10/30.
I've used it as the basis for a martial version of the spear. D8 damage, throwable 10/30, d10 damage when used with two hands. Sure you can throw it, but not very far.
Somewhere there is longbow that uses STR...Dragon heist maybe?
@@ZipperonDisney Oversized Longbow, d12 damage. Yup, from Dragon Heist.
Makes sense to use it, the 5e vanilla longbow weighs nothing yet proper longbows could weigh up to 80lbs.
@@B.-T. Note that it only uses strength for damage (and requires Str 18 to use). You still use Dexterity for attack rolls.
It's a weapon IRL and it's just a short spear
@@narazil That's even better!
I think there'd be room for a +1 buckler if the +2 shield weighed more, killed stealth and required strength... kind of a heavy vs light option
that's a nice way of approaching it
Love the grittier video style, as well as the longer-form content of older videos. Just loving the videos!
Awesome! Glad you like them!
Hello Zipperon Disney, here is your official stats.
Spiked Chain: 15 gp., 2 lb., 1d8 slashing, finesse, reach 10 ft., two-handed.
I found price & weight on Fandom and the rest was from Mike M. tweet response.
Been converting some weapons and armor from 2e to 5e. I have all the missing armor from 2e bronze plate, brigandine, banned mail, field & full plate. The math is there, just finding it can be a pain!
Thanks ZD you have a wonderful day!
Why thank you!!! I really appreciate the effort!
@@ZipperonDisney Already had it, no effort at all. Have a great day!
A niche that I think 5e failed with is dual-wielding, it's a tactic that needs a lot of support from Feats and Fighting Styles to feel fun and useful.
Solution: Paired Weapons. In the simplest form, you just take two Light weapons and hold one in each hand. Whenever you attack, make one roll to-hit and add the damage dice of both together. Two Daggers is one attack at 2d4+mod. Dagger and Handaxe is one attack at 1d6+1d4+mod. You only add the modifier once, but you choose what die you add it to.
This isn't so much a "new weapon" as a rework of 5e's dual-wielding mechanics, though. Here's a few new "dual weapons."
TWINBLADE: Martial, Finesse, Two-Handed. 1d4 Slashing. For each attack made with this weapon, make two attack rolls, those attack rolls may be declared at different targets as long as both are in range. (It's a flurry of weak attacks that might not all hit, but each 1d4 adds your modifier so that damage stacks up fast. Possibly broken as a Kensei weapon.)
PAIRED DAGGERS: As two normal Daggers. If the right-hand and left-hand dagger are wielded simultaneously, in appropriate hands, you can treat them as a single weapon with the following properties- Simple, Finesse, Two-Handed, 2d6 Piercing. (Theoretically these are "better" than a Longsword or Maul in terms of raw damage output, but they're also two custom-made, expensive weapons that don't synergize with any Fighting Styles. I'm ok with this.)
This is a really interesting idea. I don't think I've heard it before!
Something else, related, I think is missing with player armor, is protection from damage types. Weapons have damage types, enemies have damage types, and some enemies have damage vulnerabilities. But, a chain shirt is not vulnerable against rapiers?
I could see some improvements to the armor feats to incorporate that!
@@ZipperonDisney I have thought about redesigning the armor list, so that player armor is a more tactical choice. I did it for 3.5e; 5e should be simple.
The style is great, so is the video! We wrote down the falchion similarly. Also, I've been experimenting with versatility by letting players use a d10 instead of d8.
Thanks Jennifer! How about 3d4 for versatile 🤔
Fantastic video as always, never knew about the effects of the properties on the damage dice, cheers!
Glad you enjoyed!
Given the artwork you showed, I could see a +1 buckler allowing the use of a versatile weapon with 2 hands without dropping the shield, but then I can't see a reason not to buy a buckler. :(
hmmm...I like where you're heading, but that is a problem!
One way the buckler could be implemented is by having it add a +1 to AC, but it can be donned or doffed as a free action.
That sounds really nice! Good use if a niche rule!!
You should have put the rules in the description. They seem like a great way to do it.
For armor, why not have some give resistance to specific damage types? Chain mail might be resistant to slashing, for example. Padded armor (gambeson) might give resistance to bludgeoning.
Why do short swords do only piercing when they should also be capable of slashing? Why would a warhammer not have both bludgeoning and piercing (decide which before rolling the attack)?
You mention a 'Stilleto' but you show a fighting manual depicting a 'Rondel'.
Rondels are better for fighting knights, because of the circular guard helping prevent your hand from sliding, and have the part on the back that lets you push with the other hand for extra force in breaking the mail that was typically underneath the gaps between plate armor.
Closest thing I could find lol
Really liked the styleof this vodeo, I think it works well for you!
Also, although I'm not a 5E player I loved you're approach for rationalising these weapons. It's an approcah that could eork for any system.
Glad you found it useful!
I noticed a complete lack of shields and pole arms the first time I crack the book.
Only a glaive, pike, and halberd?? What went wrong?! 😭
@@ZipperonDisney Yeah, I like how simple it is... But dsaaaamn Gina!?
I wanted to make a meteor hammer for a character idea and remembered having seen this video about damage die and properties, so I figured it'd be good to review it again. And what do I see if not a meteor hammer? Well then, problem solved!
Also I'd maybe suggest the war scythe instead of the bill hook, since it's literally repurposed farming equipment!
So the tridents in my game use an older-style damage formula instead of just a flat die & it is simple to add, 1d6+1 is a tridents damage in my games.
I like that! Weren't war hammers 1d4+1 or something similar?
@@ZipperonDisney I'd have to look, been too long. I am not even certain older editions did this for the trident, but I recall it happening for some weapons and I decided to implement it in this situation.
For my current campaign, I've decided to make tridents Finesse. There's still very little reason to use them over a rapier or spear, so I figured what the hell.
Elven chain shirt is made of mithral and can be used by anyone
Good ideas. Never really looked into the rules of their weapon design, but as a DM having made a few weapons for my games already ... I wouldn't have cared if I had known beforehand. It's only been a few special items, and fall outside the normal stock found in a shop. I would definitely re-flavour a weapon to name it something else if a player was set on a certain style of weapon not already found in the books.
Regarding the small buckler (+1 shield) you mentioned, I would say it definitely needs proficiency since being smaller, it takes a bit more training to know how to intercept blows, and not just hold still and duck behind it like a larger shield. (Source: my past experience in SCA as light fighter, using rapier/buckler and cased rapiers).
Otherwise, the video format is great - if it means more videos, by all means let 'er rip.
Agree on the proficiency. Off the top of my head, I was thinking the buckler could allow limited use of the shield hand, like for reloading a crossbow and stuff.
Great video and ideas! I will totally use this in my game.
Have fun! Let me know how they players like new ones :)
Great vid!
I've been missing the spiked chain and i am definitely stealing this!
Just no improved trip!
@@ZipperonDisney Definitely not! I still have nightmares.... lol
A 2d4 weapon may deal 0.5 more damage on average than a 1d8 weapon, but they'd also have weaker crits.
A 1d8 weapon would crit to 2d8, for an average of 9 damage from the dice themselves, whereas a 2d4 weapon would only crit up to 3d4, for an average of 7.5, meaning that it deals 2.5 less damage on an average crit.
Averaging out (-2.5 * 1 + 0.5 * 19) / 20 just us a mere +0.35 damage on an average hit, and the bonus gets driven even lower by many abilities that interact with crits, like Improved Critical and Savage Attacks. And don't forget, Advantage increases the probability of a critical hit from 5% to 9.75%.
A 2d4 weapon may deal more damage on a normal hit than a 1d8 weapon, but when I roll a Nat 20 on an attack roll, I know which weapon I'd rather be wielding.
Hey! So, I've been using your suggested system for a while and I've realised, Finesse doesn't actually drop the die for anything other than the Whip! The Scimitar and Shortsword get Martial for their d8, then Light drops it to d6, but Finesse has no effect, and similarly the Rapier gets d8 for Martial, and then stays at a d8! Honestly, I feel like finesse *should* drop the die (Dex is m u c h more widely used than Strength, AC, Initiative, Sneak Attack, skills etc) so it's strange it doesn't, but yeah!
Edit: And Daggers, d6 as a simple weapon, then d4 for Light, and Finesse has no effect (it's the lowest die already of course but yeah)
Edit 2: It seems, Finesse simply cannot be applied to any weapon that is Versatile or Two-handed is their supposed payoff, and the Whip is just weird and worse than everything else for no reason
I think finesse and light interact??
I'm thrilled you're playing with the ideas in the vid 💖
As far as I can tell, Finesse only has affect with the Whip (and apparently Darts now that I check again?? don't know where that comes from), which I assume is as a balance for Reach! To counteract that though, Finesse is never Two-handed or Versatile.
Personally, I've been making a ridiculous number of varied weapons using the system you presented here (thank you!!), and have instead made it so that Finesse *can* be with Two-handed and Versatile, and *then* it lowers the die.
I've also been using a similar system to work out my Firearm rules actually, with certain things raising or lowering the damage die, the range, and the misfire score, so this video has been incredibly useful to me and I really can't thank you enough!!
Hey dude, great job editing. Keep it up, and I'm totally subscribing to support a fellow creator!
Thanks for the sub!
Rapier breaks this according to your rules.
Yup - it's one of the exceptions I cover at the end of the vid
Thanks, man! I just burned an hour creating weapons. ;-)
Care to share a creation?
You can throw any type of a sword.
Tbh I feel like this video misses the problem of 5e's weapon options. The problem isn't how many names there are for the same bland mechanics, the problem is the bland mechanics. Some Cantrips have more varied uses than the entire 5e weapon table put together. No matter what you call 'I hit it with a stick', it's still 'I hit it with a stick'. There are no weapons with a 'trip' or 'hook' property, there are no weapons with multiple damage types, there are no weapons that grant bonuses to AC, there are no weapons that negate enemy AC, and the list of effects that you would imagine some weapon should have, that doesn't exist in 5e, is endless.
The problem with the 5e weapon system is that using it doesn't make me feel like a HEMA expert, or a martial artist. because the mechanics are just too simple to portray that in any meaningful way.
5e basically need its Tome of Battle to give martials options.
But there IS a hooked weapon! "Hooked Shortspear" in Out of the Abyss. 1d4 light, on a hit you can chose to deal no damage and trip the target on a DC 8 + prof + str. It's shit tho compared to a simple shove which need only 1 check instead of attack AND dc.
I tried tapping on the link to galders but the link seems to be broken
Thanks for the heads up - fixed it!
scimitar vs shortsword is piercing vs slashing though?
Exactly! Each mundane damage type has monsters that resist or are immune to them. Gotta have the right tool for the job.
Wait, like scimitar = pierce?
I wish there were more monster that matter for!
Fantastic ideas to improve weapon diversity.
Do you think it would make a difference for high-level characters?
Hard to say. High level usually get more from features than mundane gear, but maybe there is some odd interaction that pops up in complex high level games. You have a thought?
2d4 vs 1d8 Isn’t a big deal. Yes you get .5 more average damage, but you also halve your ability to do max damage. So you’re trading slightly higher average damage, and a 2 for minimum damage, for doing max damage roughly half as often.
Awesome!
That was great
This has been (just about) my thinking for a couple years. The only difference in my opinion is that if your throwing hammer or exotic polearm is strictly, objectively better than another weapon, that's... *okay.* As long as it isn't widely available enough for PCs to start with them. Another mechanic 5e lacks is masterwork, so as long as the DM has their hand on the faucet, I don't mind having a nonmagical piece of equipment that's better than the default. Whether your group are high powered optimisers or completely casual about character effectiveness, one or two points of damage as a treat isn't a big deal.
a piece of treasure, special equipment is really under used! Something I forgot to mention is I would likely give all of the marginal weapons found a minor magical property to make it cool.
I generally have Simple weapons available at any settlement, Martial weapons in a town or military fort.
Anything custom I make that's not in the books, e.g. sword-breaking parrying daggers, pistol-swords, etc? Those are generally found hanging on the wall of a proud blacksmith, or in the hands of an NPC that ordered them custom-made.
I’d really like an armor option of damage reduction, I think.
There's a feat, but only for heavy armor. What would you do for light or medium?
@@ZipperonDisney that’s a good question and I don’t know how I would do it without stepping on the toes of the barbar or Goliath. The heavy armor feat feels weak and expensive for giving up an ASI, but since we have to give up Dex mod in heavy armor and Plate feels like it’d be a tank in a party maybe go for a 1d12+proficiency modifier? Medium limits the dex so maybe go half at 1d6. Maybe proficiency bonus for light.
Plus we’d get to use the d12 more often.
Armour should just generally be a mix of AC and Damage Reduction. Because Heavy Armour like Plate Mail should be easy to hit, but hard to hurt.
Damn, how do you just forget about mithril?
I mean, the core rulebook are 900 pages. I mistakenly thought WotC forgot mythril!
Great video, definitely focus more on creating content and less on editing, but... Armor definitely should have more to it than just weight & cost. This breakdown helped weapons make more sense, but I do find it a very lacking and lame system once you've created a dozen+ characters.
weapon choice isn't really a load-bearing element of 5e combat
It's a good video, but it would be nice if you slowed down a bit and fleshed out your thought process a little more.
I think this may take a few rewatches to get some of what you're saying.
Maybe that's just me though.