HMS Indefatigable - Guide 116 (Extended)
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- Опубліковано 5 кві 2019
- The HMS Indefatigable, a razee frigate of the British Royal Navy, is today's subject.
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
Hey could you please make a video on anti submarine warfare?
Could you please talk in detail about every ship and landing craft that would have been used in Operation Sea Lion? That would be great!
If the US went to war with Napoleon and sent the navy to help the British, how would they have preformed in a alternate Battle of Trafalgar?
Would targeting the superstructure of a ship be an effective way to render it combat ineffective? The ship wouldn't sink but could it do much of anything if everything not protected by armor was wrecked?
Not really a Drydock question, but would you do a video on the USS Constitution? I'd like to hear how you describe her War of 1812 battles, including her 2v1 fight at the end of the war.
HMS Indefatigable (1784): Unstoppable war machine that ate enemy ships for breakfast
HMS Indefatigable (1909): Blown to pieces after one hit
Seems to be a trend with the Royal Navy
HMS Indefatigable (1944): Blowing others to pieces.
"They don't want make them like before" type of thing? Ir maybe the difference was the Capt&crew?
@@emadbagheri massive difference in weaponry. Back in 1784, ships were designed to basically pummel each other into submission. Since Cannon balls didn’t explode upon impact, you were unlikely to hit a magazine or a key area and sink a ship in one hit. In 1909, since ammunition was far more destructive, that was more of a possibility.
@@samlawts1193 ty
"The Frenchman is still a Frenchman whatever mask he chooses to hide behind." Lol
..." and we'll beat him, like we have always beat him ..." lol even better
Those French shipyards must have been working flat out making prizes for Indefatigable.
This is not a miracle. The noble french captains or admirals were killed by the french revolutionary freemazons. Viceadmiral Villaret-Joyeuse was a post-captain before the war. There was no educated french officer corps, so in the total the education of french naval forces suffered, and bottled up in harbours, moral was drownded. Additionally Boney made often a bad choice appointing fleet-commanders, he appointed complete losers as Villeneuve. Additionally Boney lacked the technical understanding. So this imperial fool sent Robert Fulton away. And before the Napoleonic wars, there was no real political will to beat Britain. During the war of independence, France and Spain had the opportunity to conquer Britain. Both nation's fleets were superiour against the Royal Navy at this time.
@@hajoos.8360 You're right, times around the American Revolution saw the British Army and Navy in one of their worst states in their history in my opinion. The Army was spread out too thin in a gigantic becoming empire and was out of supply and recruits poorer than before. Meanwhile the French Navy was at one of its pinacle (the only last one was during the reign of Louis XIV after the late 1660's in my opinion), and the British Navy really struggled in this conflict like they rarely did, probably because of a lack of overhaul strategy.
@@KroM234 This is not only your and my opinion. Numbers are obvious. To evalue the history we have to check political intentions. The Brits, incorporated by the RN, followed the real imperial strategy (copied from the Romans) to destroy all enemy forces. Till today, continental forces, at this time the Frenchies and Spaniards, except the admirals Suffren and de Bazán, saw warfare at sea more as a political instrument, as a noble hobby, and comparable to the Germans in WWI and II. The fatal error was to underestimate the brutal atrocity of anglo-american policies of permanent warfare, which was fairly copied from Augustus, who was famous for his pax romana, but who waged permanent war in reality. The big french fleet, which gave the US independence, ruined the french economy, which led to the French revolution with it's well known outcome. What guys as de Grasse never understood was, with a sunk Royal Navy the brit colonies would had become automatically french ones. The deGrasse' made useless enterprises and adventures instead to bottle up the RN in british ports and to kill John Company.
@@KroM234 The Battle of Saintes gave a sure-fire indication of which way the contest would swing in the coming wars. A vastly underestimated battle.
@@doug6500 Yeah well, the French Navy was winning on the Indian theater and if you take into account the consequences on land, the Indian theater was close to become a disaster for Britain by the end of the war, while in the Caribbeans, the French Navy maintained a presence, but this area was never a focus. So yes, the British in the Caribbeans most of the time had twice as much heavy ships than the French, but they overcommitted in this area in my opinion, while they were checked in India. I agree with you on Saintes though, it's a painful defeat for France and sets the overhaul naval doctrine for the napoleonic wars I guess.
The Beatings will continue until morale improves.
Please sir may I have another?
"Its the Indy!"
"Your days of idling are over..."
"For there is no power on earth that can withstand the might of the British Navy!"
aaand music!
@@pauldrive7243 “GOD SAVE THE KING!”
Great explanation of the Prize System. It throws an entirely fresh light on understanding the incentives to pursuing a naval career in those days. I'd always wondered why otherwise sane men would take on the hardships and risks. Bravo.
Since admiral Byng was shot, court-marshalled, on his quarterdeck no British officer dared not to attack. This motivates more than prize-money.
There's also the "It can't suck any more than this" factor as well. Also the main driving force for defectors of communist regimes
Have you seen the bar wenches in Bristol? Most men stood a better chance of survival rounding the Horn…
@@CorePathwaythen look at the wives and know that those who stayed with wenches were lucky
@@CorePathway 😅😅😅😅
Notice how all the satire and criticism of the system of naval prize money came from outside the Navy. Within the navy, it was seen as sacred.
Yeah; you might ONLY share 1/4 of the prize money with hundreds of your crewmates, but with a good ship, and a canny, aggressive captain, you could become a rich man off an ordinary sailor's prize payouts alone! (just gotta avoid the tropical disease on posting to the Indies, ague from winter blockades in the Channel, splinters and shot during action, enemy swords, pikes and bayonets during boarding, losing your footing aloft, etc. etc. etc. ...
A more civilized system, from a more civilized time.
Its still law today
@@SephirothRyu cIvIliZeD
Horatio Hornblower FTW! Props for using the clip from the TV series.
Kurtis Boyer the books are so much better. Though frankly, I prefer Jack Aubrey.
Even a chance
That was one of the most British clips I have ever seen
@@taggartlawfirm Jackass-frigate Jack is a clever swashbuckler .... Hornblower is a cultivated thinker. Both have nothing to do with Nelson, the profit-taker of Duncan, more with Cochrane and Sidney Smith.
HaJo Os. Jack Aubrey modeled his career after Nelson, and had a letter from him. And don’t sell Jack short, admitted he needed a keeper when ashore, but in his later years he learned to love mathematics and astronomy. But yes, Hornblower is a bit wooden. I vastly prefer Aubrey.
''But with Substantially more French, and substantially less 'Fish People''
- Yeah. if you can tell the difference...
I was going to make a comment about "amphibians" but thought better of it.
So what he's saying is that there WERE no fish people (only frogs), so there's no need to guard the chest, and if there were no chest, we wouldn't need to be there to guard it...
I love when you do a video on the age of sail. All your videos are excellent but these are a real treat!
I wholeheartedly agree!
All his videos are great but The Age Of Sail is an oft neglected topic on the channels I frequent. It's a nice change of pace from the WW1 era and onwards that most people focus on.
If the French would have had more Suffrens your opinion might differ.
@@hajoos.8360 Not as long as the prevaling winds and the English blockade kept the French crews from getting the experience they needed to beat the English. English pre-1801 British post-1801
@@peterblood50 Suffren served before the french revolution and he waged war without a real base in the Indian ocean for 2 years, a top performance. It is less a question of seamanship and more a question of attitude. Suffren, unlike his subordinated captains or officers, fought like staying under the same verdict of John Byng as his british opponents did it. And Suffren let fire his artillerie into the british ships, not in their masts. He was more british than Hughes.
The difference of total guns might not seem that great between a 64 and 74 but the main (lower) guns on a 64 would have been 24 pounders rather than the 32's mounted on a 74 so the weight of shot was markedly inferior , despite the recognition before the Revolutionary War with France that 64's were no longer really viable ships for the line of Battle not only would existing 64's soldier on into the Napoleonic War some new ones were even added to to the fleet (Agincourt , Ardent , Monmouth , York and Lancaster) not the first time nor probably the last that British sailors would be required to tackle the enemy using obsolescent equipment .
Edward Corran 64’s were however slightly more manoeuvrable
The 64 did have some advantages over larger ships in shallow and confined waters and were useful against enemies in the North Sea and Baltic so the RN still had a use for them. They were used against the Danes and Dutch.
Yes, but with a skilled captain and crew as well as the fact that the 64 third rates were slightly faster and more maneuverable than a 74, wouldn't they easily be able to make up the difference between themselves and the newer designs?
@@adamdubin1276 In a one-on-one fight where both ships could maneuver freely, maybe. But in a line-of-battle engagement between two fleets, the 64's advantage in speed and maneuverability wouldn't matter, whereas a 74's extra firepower very much would. As an example, the Indefatigable in its original 64-gun incarnation had a broadside weight of 497 lbs, whereas a contemporary British 74-gun ship's broadside would have been 780-790 lbs (over half again as much). While a 64 with a very well-trained crew might still be able to beat a 74 with a poor crew, it would nonetheless have been a huge disadvantage to overcome.
A 64 could also function well as a flagship for a squadron of mostly frigates on an overseas station where there were few (if any) enemy ships of the line to threaten them. Although you could argue that they would be even more effective in that role if they were razeed into heavy frigates first.
Weren't the french 74's not bigger then the british 74 on top of that?
Thank you for doing the math for the prize system.
What a LEGEND of a ship. It's a shame that the Indefatigable launched in 1909 did not have such a legendary career.
Now that's a ship they could make a movie out of.
I like that matelot's prayer about enemy shot being as equally distributed among the officers as would be the prize money.
Can you imagine all the British sailors on board the British frigate that inadvertently blew up that Spanish treasure ship bursting into floods of tears and weeping unashamedly at the sight of the huge explosion? Oh, all that gold on its way to the bottom of the sea, and their fortunes with it! Their piteous cries of dismay: "Oh Lord, why have You forsaken us?"
Just as well even a frigate had a fair few guns in a broadside, so it could not possibly be determined which gun captain had fired the fateful shot - otherwise, his life would not have been worth living after his 'lucky hit' sent all his shipmates' prize money down to Davy Jones' locker!
:D
Tim Smith well, when it turned out that the Spanish ships and cargo were not to be considered prizes, the grief abated somewhat.
This comment feels psychopathic. Oddly semitic.
Job Dylan : How so?
The “Hornblower” series is always a good rewatch
The action with the Spanish treasure fleet is nicely fictionalised in Patrick O’Brians book Post Captain.
Going to read post captain
The whole series of Aubrey-Mathurin books kept me sane while recovering from a minor stroke and injury.
Drach my recollections was that the Spanish ships, as not having been at war when the action took place, were “droits of the Admiralty” as opposed to “droits of the Crown.” The captains received an ex gratia payment (a pittance by comparison) and the treasure was impounded by the govt.
Yes, a lot of this was used by Patrick O'brian in his Aubrey and Maturin series, great stuff!
Speaking of a " cunning plan ".
This old Yank has always thought they should have had a Mid- shipman Blackadder on the HMS Victory with Stephen Fry as Nelson series.
One more thing.
Have you considered doing something on the great Atlantic liners?
"Not unlike that whirlpool battle in Pirates of the Caribbean 3, but with substantially more French and substantially less fish people:"
Your humor is possibly the best I've seen.
That was a great video. It's really sad that the Droits de l'Homme's crew suffered such a tragic fate. They fought bravely even as the storm was snapping their masts, and they apparently had the good heart to release the prisoners they had on board even as their ship was breaking up. (In fact, one captive English prisoner on board, a Major Pipon, erected an inscribed menhir on the coast in 1840 in remembrance of the lives lost.) I know that's just one of the hazards of sailing, and war is full of such stories, but that doesn't make it less sorrowful.
On a slightly different note, since there are plenty of stories of British underdog victories against the French, would you ever make a video about the duel between HMS Ambuscade and MNF Baïonnaise, AKA the only underdog French naval victory against the British in the entirety of the Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars? It's a fun fight with facepalm-worthy moments on both sides and it showed clearly that good luck in war only matters if you have the insight to recognize it and the skill to seize it.
As in the video mentioned Droits de l'Homme was a failed construction. Her lower gunports could rarely been used even in fair weather. But as always the major mistake was done by the french captain. He had to win luv into the atlantic away from the Brits. And with his draught this should have been no problem.
You have intrigued me with this battle: I must read more. and if it is even half as amusing as you say, I'd love to see Drach talk about it in his usual dry wit.
@@sawyerawr5783 concerning the Constitution (old ironsides) vid of Drach, the question occurs, whether Razee-constructed ships would have been the better ships of the line or not. 2 or 3 deckers had obviously more drift and slower speed. And stability enforced small calibers on the upper gun-decks.
Lovely video! The Indy has an amazing story. Thanks for the detailed insight into the prize money system too. I also want to note that anybody who has not seen both the Hornblower and the Sharpe TV series should fix this major error ASAP!
Will try. Read all of the Hornblower books when in grade school.
The Royal Navy -- a shining example of success through free enterprise & profit sharing.
and don't forget conscription!
Yeah back when people were abused in factories and slave labor was used in it's colonies. Yes, by the 19th century Britain was against slavery but it's colonies were not for the longest time and the British Government had no issue with that.
Hahahaha! Through forced conscription, malnutrition, abuse, coorporal punishment and death. Service in the RN in this period was avoided by any means possible. Very, very few captains were as successful as Pellew and no ship was a succesful as HMS Indefatigable.
@@LarS1963 Yeah being on any ship up until the late 1880s would have been horrible
well, you know, that was why Privateers were also so successful in war!
Love the age of sail stuff. It’s so interesting to see how much things changed from back then.
That was incredibly interesting and well done.
The Indefatigable must have been a much sort after berth for many crewmen given her success in capturing ships.
I can just imagine a sour faced Franch shipyard manager telling a new ships captain to not damage the ship before he turned it over to HMS Indefatigable. It's a question of pride in his workmanship to hand over a ship worth keeping.
Fascinating description of payouts of prize money.
Fascinating story over Sunday morning coffee. Thank you!
Very informative, the general consensus at the time was that French ships were actually better designed and as such greatly valued by the RN, (although that's debatable).
The story of the captured French ship Duguay Trouin, renamed HMS Implacable, is interesting and if things had worked out differently she could be today sat in the drydock near to HMS Victory:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Implacable_(1805)
Aware costs to preserve her would have been huge but it would have been great to have a 74 gun ship, (and veteran of Trafalgar albeit on the French side), alongside Nelsons flagship.
French ships designs tended to be better that British ones and the RN stole them shamelessly. But British ships tended to be of a better quality of construction, in both materials and technique.
Good ole' Indy
4,000 cannon balls fired! Think, if those were all from 24s that would be 96,000 lbs or 48 TONS of cannon balls. That is insane!
Please do more videos about sailing ships. This was a great video!!
I like when you do ships from the Age of Sail.
Loved that Horn Blower scene added in :D Topped it off!
Fish People? I suppose the French would qualify as snail people in this case, desperately clinging to the walls that had become floors after their ship turned on its side. The Indefatigable crew were richly experienced by the end of their tour, having persuaded many French ship's to join the Royal Navy by every means possible. While worn out before it's time, the Indefatigable definitely paid for it's construction many, many times over! Great Story, as always!
The Action of 5 October 1804 was very significant for the history of my country, Argentina, because aboard Mercedes was travelling the family of Carlos Maria de Alvear, one of the early leaders of our Independence, while he and his father where aboard Fama and where imprisoned in England for a while. Sorry for my english!! More info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_5_October_1804 and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Mar%C3%ADa_de_Alvear
You should have used the clip where he takes the Indie to within one mile of a shore and BROADSIDES the beach!
Great channel I always look forward to your new shows thanks and keep up the great work I really appreciate your work :).
Yes cal, it is good stuff, but it looks like Lord Drach is slacking. I can't find any videos that I have not already watched.
I highly recommend the Hornblower series of books..... for anybody who enjoys Drachinifel's stuff....they would make a best gift ever.... well, especially if they be younger.
Fantastic detail and pictures. Your descriptions of the battles during the years she spent in service was wonderful!Thank you! Excellent!
I often put my feet up of an evening and idly skim old copies of the London Gazette.
Another excellent and informative video. Thank you for your efforts, sir.
Love to see a video about the Temeraire. Saved Nelsons arse by all accounts.
Not really. He died anyway and the battle was good as won. Might, stress might, have saved the Victory. (Helped keep a clean sheet, in football terms). If the French had boarded, they would still have had to face the sweepings of the Pompey gutters. Not a fight I'd fancy!
Beyond excited to see the flower class in the list!
what an adventurous life you must live, your honeymoon was a failure I take it.
Thanks for the info about prize money. As per other comments it’s worth reading O’Brien,s books. I think it was also common for Captains to get into debt with their prize agents prior to capturing a ship!
The paintings of these ships are magnificent
Remarkable courage and achievements. Staggering sums of money. Thanks for sharing.
It's a crime against humanity that A & E's Hornblower series was discontinued.
Superb as always Drach
Another absolutely astonishing story Great work!
Fabulous fabulous, fabulous narration.
So glad to see a long video on some tall ships.
Loved the Hornblower series. Very entertaining.
Great job as always, sir.
@5:01 Poor midshipman tried to throw his hat and catch it but missed....
Defatigable was indefatigtible. Thanks for this video!!!
Great work.
Another great documentary, thanks.
It's the Indie!
"God save the King!"
This is fantastic. Subbed!
Really enjoying the age of sail videos !
I'd love to see more first rate ships of the line, like Nuestra Señora de la Santisima Trinidad, or L'Ocean. Naval Action could provide some footage also.
Yes, Loved the Hornblower reference... Love and Own the Books, Series and Movie...
Howdy from Texas!!!
You've done it again Hornblower!
Saved the honour of His Majesties navy, and oh, what's that, a lovely French maiden needs to be saved and wants to join us on the way home, well if you must Hornblower!
I have always enjoyed that series hornblower.. this was very interesting thanks.
Thanks for this didn't realise the Pellew and Indefatigable were real!
And it makes some battles really hard to follow, when people read formations.
Is that a French ship in French service?
When in doubt, assume it's the Royal Navy.
6:50 just a quick correction it was not about "getting away", it was so you could out maneuver your opponent.
That's the video I hoped for!
Midshipman Hornblower approves.
Great work, thank you.
That is not Sir Edward Pellew, its Woolfy from Citizen Smith....Power to the people!
Simon Potter Freedom for Tooting!
with a pay out like that, I would have harbored rebellious feelings and would have probably became a pirate. Damn the Admiralty!
Hilarious sailor's prayer before battle cartoon! Amen!
Thank you for the video i enjoyed it very much.
I know you have a schedule and are very busy, but if you're planing to do a video on the HMS Victory at any time could you include the battle damage she sustained at the battle of Trafalgar? How in the hell a ship can sail to a port for repairs with nothing but three pocket hankies for sails?
Again thank you for the grate video!
British heavy frigates were the true first battlecruisers.
That was great!
Indefatigable... every time I hear or read that word, Monty Python and the Holy Grail pops into my head!
Just superb
Huzzah!!! More age of sail!!
I liked this one ty for posting!
Ooo age of sail!
Really good video. Most interesting. Anyone who is interested in the Nelson era would like the Hornblower books and TV series and also the excellent Patrick O'Brian historical novels and the film Master and Commander (2003) based on them.
I'd suggest the Nathaniel Drinkwater series of novels as well.
Hornblower is the most famous, but not the best and certainly not the largest, contentwise. Alexander Kent/Douglas Reeman's Bolitho on the other hand spans a larger time frame with way more novels.
Add in the Honor Harrington books by David Weber.
@@w8stral The Honor Harrington series is Sci-Fi, not Historical Fiction. I don't exactly see the connection here...
So, you did a tiny google.... and have not read them. They are naval books. Styled directly upon the age of sail and Her majesties service except in space. The names of the ships are even pulled directly from the RN and many of the battles in the books are near 100% replica of real battles if you know your naval history. Honor Harrington IS Horatio Hornblower .... in space. @@CommanderJonny
The first Ship of the Line made into a frigate was the French 74 gun Brave (1781) rebuild into a Razée in January 1794 - 8 month before the Indefatigable!
good of you to feature the Hornblower series, they are quite entertaining in their own right.
I highly recommend CS Forsters Hornblower series, the first couple are set in HMS Indefatigable. Also a good series read is Dudley Pope' Ramage series
What a pretty ship.
I adore Hornblower great video.
Robert Lindsay was awesome as Sir Edward Pellew. He totally projected the absolute paragon of naval virtue.
Edit: @10:32 Successful captains could indeed grow quite wealthy from prize money. No wonder privateering was so popular.
A Great Story of a Great Warship!!!
I can't be the only one that, after having watched the clip starting at 4:13, wonders what would have happened if Mr. Fantastic were a sailor in the Royal Navy at the turn of the 19th century. Imagine what sort of work he could do as part of a boarding party!
82 ships and there has been boasting of a certain Navy whose best was 2 frigates, 2 schooners and 10 Merchant
Please cover some modern cruisers destroyers and frigates. From all different nations. Their systems, sensors, crew structure, aviation etc.
Already subscribed. This video liked and shared.
Between 1793 and 1812, the British impressed more than 15,000 U.S. sailors. American outrage with this practice was one of the causes of the War of 1812.
And ....?
Ah, but we stopped once Napoleon was defeated. Shame we had to fight a pointless war with the States, though.
Nice video, good story, very interesting)).
Drachinifel: The French like to aim at rigging so they can run.
Me: Sounds about right. That French flight or flight instinct 😂
Can you imagine a certain president saying the the word,,,,,,, Indefatigable.