NIGHTWISH - The Poet And The Pendulum (REACTION) with my wife
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Here it is! One of the greatest Nightwish songs - The Poet And The Pendulum! Goes without saying that this performance lives you speechless! And even if you are not a Nightwish fan, you should watch it at least once! Hope you'll enjoy our reaction and please visit our channel again! Stay safe and be kind to each other!
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The song is composed in the same way as a depression works. Hard cuts between sections. Absolute emotional fluctuations from one extreme to the other. Through all stages until death.
This was also the last time this song was played. It is no longer sung. Tuomas has finished with this and thus this song only exists in the archive, so to speak.
It is an absolut masterpiece.
Fantastic reaction. They don"t do this song anymore, the last act "Mother & Father" are words of comfort said to him by his parents
Well it's too emotionally charged for Tuomas if I remember he declined doing it anymore live. Not 100% certain of this.
@@thamor4746 yea I was hesitant posting that because I wasn't sure myself, I think he said it some where
I know that they play it in Portugal like in september 2016 but now i don't know if they are playing it in shows but is one of my favourite nightwish songs
@@pedronatalino5122 They are. Not always, but they do.
Great reaction 😊
This song is beyond a masterpiece. It hits me so deeply inside. This sort of beauty I didn’t know existed not so long ago.
The test regarding listening to the song or feeling the song. Well, if you kinda weep alittle at the end there, then you know. Yes, its a masterpiece ✨
Tuomas got Floor to deliver his pain feelings to us, to our heart
I think Floor does that anyway with every song she sings.
@@jamesanderson5268 for sure.
Floor being the voice for Tuomas' songs to me is a perfect union. Tuomas has such deep feelings, and nobody on the planet can push emotions onto listeners like Queen Floor. All the other members are simply superb artists, masters of music if you will.
This song saved my life. I had gone through a deep depression for years and yes there was a time I felt the urge to end it all. The song, when I heard it first, hit hard. But the last words "The beginning" gave me hope.
I'm far from those bad days and do believe that the song helped me enormously. Tuomas is an absolute genius!!
Great genuine reaction from you both. Thank you!!
As another person who suffered from depression, tried to drink myself into oblivion.... drinking nearly a 5th of Bacardi and a two liter bottle of Coke almost every night! This was from the 1980's until 1999 when I quit, and turned my life around. I am 23 years, 3 months and 9 days sober!
This song always brings tears to my eyes....it's a masterpiece!
@@larryd4352 Well done 👍
same here this was a lifesaver for me also guess i am not the only one
There is a version with Marko only, doing all the singing and narration. The album version with Annette is very moving as well, but Floor brings the empathy up a notch.
Floor's performance is absolutely unrivalled, in every respect.
Just a notch?
@@gregjetnikoff7124 Tis a vera noice (and huge) notch
@@rientsdijkstra4266 a typical day for Floor.
Floor on an off day is better than 99(.99999)% of the singers out there.
Was about to put the same...
Demo version of "The Poet and the Pendulum"
You guys are spot on in your reaction. This is a deeply personal and emotional song for Tuomas, the band, and their fans. It is specifically about the depression Tuomas felt when Nightwish's fans turned on him and blamed him for the rift with Tarja. When they performed this song Tuomas often had the sound engineers turn off the lyrics in his in ear monitors because it was too emotional for him. You will see Empuu and Marko come over and check on him throughout the song, especially at the end. Nightwish no longer performs this song and the never will in the future. Tuomas has said that he and the band are no longer the people they were then. That they have grown and have all moved on from that time.
One of the best explanation of the lyrics I have found is by an artist named Annika Hausen. I would provide the link but everytime I do my comment gets deleted so google her name and Poet and the Pendulum. The song uses imagery and lyrical structures from Edgar Allen Poe's the Pit and the Pendulum to explore his own pain and despair. It starts with the end, i.e. the end of the Tarja era of the band, and finished with the beginning. i.e. the start of a new era of the band with a new singer. The mother and father section has word spoken to Tuomas by his mother that helped him through his low points and Floor does an incredible job of making us feel that pain but also the hope for the future. A truly amazing song.
Nightwish (with Floor) is healing in so many ways. Thank you so much for your reaction, bye
One of the best and most sincere reactions I've seen to this song. I expected Dominika to cry at some point during this song (which you did, during "The Pacific") but when I saw Andrei become emotional during "Mother and Father" I knew both of you had understood its essence. Just to let you know, Tuomas asked the sound engineer to cut Floor's vocals from his earpiece, just for this song, because he didn't think he could keep it together if he heard her singing. This is my favourite Nightwish song (specifically this live version). It's just an absolute masterpiece. Talking of masterpieces... just wait until you get to The Greatest Show on Earth
the power Floor has she can express and tell the story so good that she takes u on journey
Once Floor started performing this song, she was able to evoke the perfect emotion for every part of this masterpiece it became very difficult for Tuomas to perform while hearing Floor’s vocals. I have heard that at most shows he would have the sound engineer’s take Floor’s vocals out of his in ears. Yes this was an Annette era song, but Floor gave it life.
Thank you for sharing your wonderful reaction. This song brings tears to me when I listen to it. . .
Loved your reaction, so honest .
In this world there are musicians, there are singers... But Nightwish and Floor is pure magic! It is music for the spirit, for the soul! Transcend this plane. Nightwish and Floor make this world a better place! Greetings from Argentina.
Exactly... there are artists who are technically perfectly trained virtuosos... but will never to be able touch the soul like Tuomas and Nightwish... the magic....
Edit: cheers back to you from Finland 😊
must have been out of this world to be there live..
The split was such a painful time for everyone involved but both Tuomas and Tarja have been so decent about it in Interviews, never saying a bad word about the other, and for that I respect them a lot. And nowadays they seem to be good with each other. Tuomas' father died last year and Tarja immediately sent her condolences which he said he was very touched by -- I think that says a lot about who they fundamentally are as people. It wasn't meant to be, but I am glad they're all in a good place now 🤍
Thank you for this beautiful reaction.
This song saved me from a terrible burnout. Floors voice did the impossible. She made me cry and the relief is impossible to describe. I now have a tattoo on my left arm because Nightwish and Floor saved my life with this song.
Hello Andrei & Dominika, totally understand your feelings of disquiet.
Tuomas has bared his soul with this masterpiece. Anger,frustration, betrayal,resignation,
and redemption. Nightwish do not perform this anymore, l understand. Love hearing you both discussing your emotions..You are both lovely people! Have a wonderful day!🤗
My No 1.
Some (not all) of the highlights:
The guys checking up on Tuomas to see he's OK. There was a point where he had the vocal turned off in his in-ear.
Floor acting every part, particularly with her hands - tearing her hair, showing love.
"Sparkle my scenery" - just beautiful.
Father and Son, reflecting the words of his mother when he returned home. Particularly "you have such oceans within" and "all you need is to feel my love".
The final, sublime, ethereal three phrases.
Floor waiting and looking over to check on Tuomas (Marco and Emppu already there) before saying her final thank you.
The initial whispering wouldn't mean much as it is the final spoken words, spoken backwards.
The song charts stages of emotion/depression and the end of an era for the band ("The End") and finally the birth of a new era ("The Beginning").
It includes the anger stage of course (Marco section) and there is an angrier version that has Marco only singing, that was the demo version - angrier lyrics too.
Note that in Tuomas' lyrics, Poet is generally him.
This song has made many of us have cried to this song. Many of us have been through depression and been helped by Nightwish (and I have some dpecific people in mind). For me this was a particularly helpful song. It ends in hope as well as sadness.
Anettes version is surprisingly good but this is by far the best.
New bass is Jukka Koskinen.
Marco's parts are now sung by Floor and Troy.
This is never performed now. Tuomas said the band has got past the anger and depression that spawned the song.
I don't know if you ever watch other reactors but in this case, about this song, I would recommend watching this: "The Poet and the Pendulum by Nightwish - Viking Reacts".
He suffered from a major depression and explains the build up of the song looking back at his own ordeal sharing every feeling he went through. And in my personal opinion it is what Tuomas felt dealing with the departure of Tarja and the turmoil it caused. Have some tissues ready.
A year ago Mental Amanda, who calls herself suicide survivor, reacted to this song totally blind based on someones suggestion. She knew nothing about Nightwish. But based on her own experiences her interpretation of the lyrics was spot on. Which does not mean there is only one
(correct) interpretation. But every part, the stages of grief, if you will, of the lyrics spoke to her.
The greatest show on earth,live in Tampere…..also incredible beautiful.
At the end when Marko and Emu go over to stand by Tuomas gets me every time. They, more than anyone, know the hell Tuomas went through when the NW fans turned on him when Tarja left.
Which was really unfair because the whole band made the decision to fire her. Marko was the one who said (in his book) he’d leave if she doesn’t go.
Very good reaction, thank you so much!
Great job guys! You felt the song the way it was meant to be. It always makes me emotional. They only performed this song live 20 times with Floor, and not since 2016. Floor took it to another level and made this the ultimate version. The Pacific was originally sung by the choir boy, but Floor took it on. This likely will never be performed live again. I am grateful that this performance exists to be shared with the world. This is an emotional masterpiece and definitely one of my favorite songs of all-time. Keep exploring Nightwish! Now on the third of Tuomas’s magnum opuses, The Greatest Show on Earth!
They not playing this anymore....amazing stuff..
You did Great 👌 that pendulumpart makes the tounge discodance. Great reaction guys 👍
Oh my. Masterpiece! Prepare. Every time I hear it My eyes are teary ❤️
Yes!!! I like your reaction very much! Nightwish performances always unsettle me and I am a 51 year old trash metal fan that discover them 2 years ago and they made me cry almost in every song.
Your response from the poet and the pendulum (amazing, emotional song) is perhaps the best! But anyway all your (Nightwish) reactions are human, to the point, joyfull and great! Thanks and keep going! Shoemaker live is an advice!
Best reaction ever, thank you
Its magnificent i love this piece
And al the fans had their opinion what happened with the band.
The public pressure was even more important, how Tuomas had to deal with it. And was even difficult for him. Al the negatively.
Indeed he's a musical genius.
With Nightwish it is literally impossible not to have an emotional reaction. To have better understanding, you have to listen several times. Each song is a virtual sound, vocal and lyrical challenge to your senses.
Something about this rakes the feelings of sadness, regret and dejection into one pile. Then the song ends with these feelings right in front of us. Do we burn this pile of thorns and dead leaves? Do we bag it? Make a collage? Or simply walk away and let the wind claim it?
Floors performance in this masterpiece is absolutely STUNNING. It is one of the best and most beautifull pieces of music I have ever heard. Only a few top pieces from classical music come even close for me.
This is actually my second favorite song by Nightwish. The #1 song was written about the same time and is called "Master, Passion, Greed". It is written agaist Tarja's husband who the band blames for talking Tarja into dropping the band and going for a solo career. Marko sings that song since it was recorded before they chose Anette. It's a hard metal song even harder than "Yours Is An Empty Hope."
Great reaction!
I rarely get through that mother and father part without tears and didn't get through it without tears this time either. It's just so emotional...
Great reaction.
Think you should do the other big one now.
The Greatest Show On Earth.
It will lift you up for sure:)
This one will leave you in tears from happines.
It's the story about the evolution of life , from the Big Bang until now.
Amazing how they put that much in just one song............!
I think the poet that died is the Tuomas that wrote for Tarja as a person and a voice, in the last part his parents bring him back from depression and a new Poet is born, one that will write for someone else, and a new chapter begins.
This song will never be performed again it is in a class of its own it is a masterpiece great reaction floor's lament at the end just goes straight to your heart ❤ Tuomas is a genius and this band are incredible great reaction ❤ ♥
Floor is an Empath, which makes the way she sings, more personal than most. She's something to behold.
That's why she's the Queen
Epic reaction👍👌💓
And yes....Floor is the only one who can sing and perform with so much emotion, she hits you right through the heart.
Kind regards from the Netherlands ❤❤
you together is just great ..
This composition has saved lives..
The way you described your "disturbed" feelings at the end, and the fact that you stated that you have never experienced depression yourself (luckily not), is in a way a confirmation that Thuomas managed to convey the dark feeling and oppressiveness of depression in music to the listener. In a way you have experienced a little bit of this feeling. For someone who has experienced depression, this is very recognizable and you can easily relate to it.
I loved the fact that you say that people experiencing depression should listen to this song, especially the last part. The fact is that many reactions to this song in the comments of reaction video's also testify to this.
I hope this isn't the end of the journey for your reactions to Nightwish, because there is so so much more to discover!
I saw this tour in 2015. It was a bonus seeing them perform this song. it's something they rarely do, because it's very emotional for Tuomas (Thats why you see Empuu walk over to him)
In this song, it's essential to understand that this happened Tuomas after Tarja was fired. Please understand. The press criticized Tuomas very hard. Finnish politicians said cruel things about him in the press. As it said - he took criticism from his own friends. Only the closest of people to him supported him. He was from the same small town as Tarja. Imagine the feedback.
Hi there,told you,this is art,a masterpiece.
They dont play this anymore,
The last part,where Floor stand up and sings with Tuomas ,makes my eyes tear up everytime,i will always love you,fantastic🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰
the last part gives you the feeling of regret - regret all the things you did or didn't done - the feeling of lost...
I am always speechless, listening to this song which I did at least more than 50times. I was thinking that it may be of of the most beautiful composed, written and purest songs I've ever listened to. Most songwriters telling their personal stories but here you are so close with him, feeling his pain and makes you sickened knowing the suffering he had. I feel that my loyalty in life is way bigger than many people around me. If I had to betray my dearest I personally choose death before that. So imo opinion it doesn't need to do something with depression but your loyalty to your dearest and most precious soul you know from childhood on. Betrayal doesn't heal and will stick you till the end and thus bigger than life in itself. It is a tough song to swallow but so worth it to go through it!
This has to be the greatest piece of performed poetry I've ever experienced. Your unsettled and mixed emotional state at the end is a testament to that. Thanks for your heartfelt commentary of this special song.
With Nightwish you´re never ready.. you think you are but you´re not.. Been a fan since 1997 @ their first gig in Kitee.. Seen +60 shows and they still amaze me, thought that ive seen and heard all but oh boy, ive been wrong!!! Been crying, laughing etc etc in their shows..
Tuomas is indeed a true poet in every sense of the word and one of the most incredible composers of our time. I feel so grateful to be here at the same time as him to witness his amazing talent. I'm not sure anyone is truly "ready" for this. Thank you both for this.
Nightwish is absolutely legend, with all 3 singers! I hear them now for over 20 years, at the beginning friends laugh at me saying what is this, but i feel all time that this is one of the greatest bands of all time.
You paused right where Tuomas committed the suicide. Did you realize that? Right at 3 minutes from "three minutes and counting". And the heartbeat stopped after that.
"Be still, my son, you're home. Oh, when did you become so cold?" 😭😭😭
I feel the parts are stages in the mind of a person with suicidal thoughts:
I *White Lands Of Empathica* : Traumatic loss of innocence/security
II *Home* : Raging thoughts of self hatred and a feeling of being uprooted (longing for home even if you are already home)
III *The Pacific* : Acceptance of the fact death is the only right answer to your problems, romanticising how peaceful it will be if it just all stops.
IV *Dark Passion Play* : raging thoughts about actually committing suicide and how it will settle the scores and what will happen after your death
V *Mother and Father* : getting help , being granted forgiveness and not committing suicide.
The more sadness carves you until you are empty, the more joy you can contain.. I am so glad that this opus exists! It filled my dark spaces with emotion when I thought they had all been drained. That ending..... Such light!
Keyword for this masterpiece is: catharsis.
All the inner turmoil of a tormented soul which comes to an end, but also to a new beginning!
IMO we usually tend to simplify it too much telling the reactors "it's about suicide": yes, Tuomas wrote it after a depression and mimic the throat cut at the "3 minutes and counting" spot, but imHo it means not "I'm killing myself (even if in a poetic way)" but rather "I'm killing the part of me which wants me to suicide".
Just a thought of mine, lying on the thin ice of my comprehension over the deeps of Tuomas' Ocean Soul...
Nice reaction guys, give yourselves a hug and some time to digest this OVERLOAD of emotions. And please don't be sad hearing TPATP again: it's dark, really really dark, I know, but more than anything it shows us the light at the end of the tunnel!🌄💪
👋🇮🇹🖖
Your reaction (the both of you) ....... whay else can be said. 👍
Since Marko left, Floor and Troy are sharing his lyrics ( mostly Floor). Considering this song, Tuomas decided not to play it again as the lyrics are no longer relevant.
Thanks for your reaction ;)
🤩👌💥💯
"The end............. The beginning"
And there's helluwa lot in between!
🤘😎 🇫🇮 💙
Funny how you can hear this and feel somehow.....tired ( wrong word ) or emotionally drained ...or strained .....what ever you use to describe it ....it can definitely elicit a physical response....
Thanks for another great reaction to another great song. I love your channel. This is an extremely emotional song. I love how Tuomas borrowed ideas from "The Pit and The Pendulum", a short story written in 1842 by Edgar Allan Poe. The story deals with the psychological torment of a prisoner in the Spanish Inquisition who is publicly tortured and executed for opposing the Catholic Church. He finds himself in a dark room full of rats with slippery sloped floors leading to a Pit with a swinging Pendulum overhead. The Pit signifies Death, the Pendulum represents Time and the sloped floors, rats and darkness symbolise Fear.
The protagonist of the story opposed the Catholic Church as he was angry with God for taking away his birth mother, adopted mother and wife with plague and disease.
I wonder if Toumas's anguish was caused NOT because he fired Tarja (the original singer) from the band, but because he felt publicly tortured and judged by his so-called fans for doing it the way he did. I believe the score was arranged into 5 separate acts to represent the 5 stages of grieving. Greetings from England 🏴
I understand your feeling, as you said, “unsettled”, after experiencing this song. I love it. It’s a true masterpiece. But I can’t just put it in the disc player and listen to it like I would any other Nightwish song. I have to be ready for it, emotionally and mentally, because I know it will hit me hard. It always does.
Great reaction by you both. The long pause at the end before either of you spoke says it all. How do you even formulate a response in your mind for something like this? You did well, though.
Beautiful song and beautiful reaction.
this was one of the best first listening reaction to tpatp i have seen, thank you !
"stopping to much" ... no ! you did not !
may i request again some older stuff ?
Tarja, "the Pharaoh sails to Orion" live 2001 and "Beauty *OF* the Beast" live
Anette, "rest calm", "turn loose the mermaids" and "Meadows of Heaven (Lyric Video!!!)"
thanks
...and i always enjoy your reactions ;)
I get why some fans would suggest doing research on this piece (I don't like calling it a song because it has proper movements), however in my opinion it is doing a disservice to the storytelling and the music itself. It's a very powerful and emotional piece that lets you experience the pain, anguish, despair, catharsis etc. on both a lyrical and musical level.
Anyway, great reaction as always!
It is told that Tuomas made a suicide in music to not kill himself in reality. He got very harsh critic after dismissing Tarja, great part of people hated him because of that I'm being told and he was deeply depressed.
He used Edgar Allan Poe's poem and some of it's idea
My favorite reactors on youtube. Simply love you two
Fantastic reaction. Thank you. Now you have discovered No. 2 of the big three NW songs. Only the "Greatest Show on Earth" live from Tampere is missing. Pure emotion, too. But in a very very positive was. I can't wait 😍
Awesome reaction. Thank you.Mother and Father really hits me. WOW!!!!!!!I am mess again.😭😭😭😭😭🤘👍
The almost stunned silence at the end said it all. Thank you for such a thoughtful and touching reaction.
It's also worth noticing - Tuomas was joined at the end with Empuu and Marko, who were around at the time of Tarja's dismissal. The method of dismissal led to a lot of pain for both Tuomas and Tarja. People picked sides and there was a lot of pain. When Tuomas dismissed Anette, he didn't do it publicly. However, when it was discovered, the press made fun of Tuomas. There was even a cartoon with a prison holding Tarja and Anette and a caption "who'll be the next Nightwish singer?". Tarja's husband triggered anger on various levels for Tuomas. Two other songs made it onto the "Dark Passion Play" album because of this tumultuous time. One was "Master, Passion, Greed" performed by Marko but never performed in concert. It was aimed at Tarja's husband and Tuomas regrets it. The other song was "Bye, Bye Beautiful" performed by the band with Anette. The video is misleading. However, the words are clear - it's directed at Tarja herself. Tuomas felt that the album was sort of himself working through the pain.
So glad you did a bit of research to really understand the song...its so much more emotionally powerful when you know. While the whole band went thru this trauma together, as the band leader, Tuomas really took on the most heartbreak. When they perform this live, Tuomas turns off the vocal feed to his in-ear monitors, and you'll notice Marko and Emppu gather around him, being supportive...even 10yrs later! They have not performed this live, in years, and probably never again. Anette sang this on the album, with lots of layered backing tracks. If you search UA-cam you will find the original demo...sung entirely by Marko. But Floor just makes this song so deeply beautiful, in its darkness. Depression is very real to so many of us. If it has never touched you personally, you are lucky. Left untreated, the pain of despair is absolutely crushing. Only those brave enough to have a spark of hope, survive. Aren't we lucky that Tuomas reached for that hope, and keeps making wonderful music for the world?
In a interview tuomas said he considered the greatest show on earth his greatest song but the poet and pendulum was the bands GOAT God bless
WOW. I’ve read nearly all the comments to your reaction and this song. Never have I seen so long comments for a song. It’s really shows the impact Nightwish has with their fans 💥💥
My favorite Nightwish song, a masterpiece. I always cry.
Thank you🙏❤🇫🇮.
no idea if it has been pointed out already in the comments but during the dialogue in part 3 where he says he only has 3 minutes to live and counting. 3 minutes literally passes before the pendulum swings and kills Tuomas. That is some top notch composition if you can say one thing and follow through with the exact time spoken.
I loved your reaction to this song. I’ve noticed that men seem react more strongly to part 5 (Mother and Father), which is beautiful and interesting.
Beautiful reaction. This one never fails to leave me emotionally wrung out.
Waiting on that….thanks
This song hasn’t been played for years and will probably never be played again.
Yeah, you've got a good grasp of people with dark thoughts. I've had these thoughts all day everyday since I was a small boy, around seven.
Ive heard this song 100s of times now, and it still brings a tear to my eyes. Happy and sad at the same time.
That were some very deep thoughts from you. I've watched a lot of reactions to this song and I've still learned something new today. Thank you so much for sharing this with us.
You guys choose the right time to listen to this masterpiece because you have now been on a beautiful and personal journey with Nightwish.
This band just pulls at all your emotional heartstrings like no other. ❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹❤️🩹
Always so great to see your reactions about Nightwish music🇫🇮 Greetings from Finland 👍
I get a lump in my throat and my eyes tear up every time I listen to this song. It is one of the most epic songs from Nightwish, and there are so many.
Beautiful, heartfelt reaction folks, thank you. Tuomas has the mind of a great composer and the heart of a poet and in Floor he has found his Voice. Her ability to convey the emotional complexity of his music is absolutely sublime.
Now, after that heavy and turbulent experience, treat yourselves to uplifting epicness of The Greatest Show On Earth 🤙🏻
I enjoyed the Poet with you, even if you hear it 1000 times, he always remains emotional. You're not the only one who brings tears to your eyes, it's such a powerful song. never get enough of it. Tpt the next review again. This was beautiful again🤘🤘
The whispers at the beginning are representing what the fans and media were saying about putting the blame on Tuomas. "The Pacific" is acceptance of Tuomas' impending doom and soon to come death. You called it Dominika. It is clear you feel the deep emotion within this composition.
Nightwish may never perform this song live again. Tuomas has stated that he has moved on with the new Nightwish.
Tuomas wrote this song to kill off and bury a little piece of his soul. Floor haunting chant at the end is Tuomas soul crying out from the grave. IMHO
It took me several days to regain my emotions after my first time hearing this masterpiece. It left me feeling emotionally distraught. Great artistic beauty does not always leave you feeling happy inside. Sadness is a very powerful human emotion and a big part of the human experience.
This is why we all stress to wait on this song and to learn a little about the context of this song before listening.
Wonderful job and beautiful reaction from both of you. At the end, you both look sad and seemed to require time to collect you thoughts. Very understandable given the emotional journey of this incredible composition from the poet.🙏
this guy on the drums plays also by Wintersun.
I feel that this song is for those who do not understand depression and think it is not really. Tuomas gives us an emotional experience into depression.
Thank you. Depression and hard times creates art and this is art.
Thankyou, this was a beautiful reaction, love you guys, you have such empathy and you both really get this band - wonderful 🤘
Every day i watching UA-cam i wish to find you video to nightwish. Yours videos make me smiling. Helou from Finland🤘👍👌👌
Your thoughts and comments, from both of you, throughout gave us one of the best reactions I have seen to this masterpiece.