I’m not a veteran by any means but we decided to start with goats as we have a lot of old pasture that has gone to woody brush and thorns. Over this last year our 14 goats have reclaimed around 3 acres with out really trying. Our main cash flow is from our flower farm but this year I will be focusing on aggressive clearing with the goats with plans to have another 20 acres ready to begin building a sheep herd. I also have a few pigs that I send after the goats to disturb the ground before any seeding. The pigs are more of a hobby/interest, but they till the ground well in small controlled paddocks. Great video. First one I’ve seen of you but I’m definitely going to watch more 🤙
Love your videos! Especially this one because I have been feeling the strong pull to start up with some sheep. Sounds like some great, honest advice from some hard lessons. Thank you
Thank you so much for sharing. This helps me a lot as far as how I want to approach my new adventure of raising goats on what is currently blackberry and pine heavy land.
Thanks for always keeping it real PJ! We love watching your videos because you’re fairly new at this too (we’re only 8 months in, butchered 3 wethers and turned our ram in with our 4 ewes - Dorper and black belly). Why did you regret bringing your first flock with you when you moved? Was there a huge climate difference? Some interesting pointers. Sure appreciate it!!
Thanks so much Heidi! I regret bringing them here because they were not accustomed to the wet (parasite heavy) weather. They were amazing sheep in a dry climate, but I brought them out here and we lost about half of the stock in the first year. It would have been sad to sell them and buy new stock, but it was even sadder watching half of them die.
Hi PJ, we're just getting started with a mixed flerd of goats and sheep. So far so good. Might be a good option to help you clean up the wooded areas and get more pasture established.
There was a article about a farmer that had 30 cows on 20 acres. It was the frist time every reading about stress grazing. that was 40 or 30 years ago. The thing about cows is it takes space to grow enough grass some years hay is easy to find others year's it not.
I'm starting out with the very first mistake lmao I get 5 pregnant st croix ewes and a white dorper ram today! I already have two jacob ewe lawn ornaments and I like them so I have a little bit of an idea of what I'm doing but that's ok. Go big or go home lmao
@@homesteadingwithPJ that's what I've heard! I wanted royal whites (which have those two breeds as foundations) but they're almost impossible to get in Canada so this was the next best thing
PJ can you test drive a couple of meat goats and dexter steers for the rest of us? My wife and I are interested in raising small-midsize beef and Dexter's seem like a good yield for their size and also good with kids.
Dexter cattle. There are both dairy and meat varieties. They are the dachshund of cattle. Because they are smaller they are easier to handle, don’t need as much room and get along well with other animals.
I've heard really good things about Dexter cows. I didn't know there was a dairy variety. Very interesting. If I find someone near me with Dexter, they'll be the first on my list.
@@homesteadingwithPJI agree. Dexter would be a perfect cow to get your feet wet. Easy to manage docile & they at least give you 500lbs hanging weight.
i think of a Dr. Suess title for the farmer "oh the money you spent" all great insights. diversification has been something ive learned. whats your end game? to put money in the bank, food in the freezer? a bit of both? we've done on the small scale: sheep, pigs, meat chickens and pet goats. pigs had been the quickest return but alot of work. these are full sized hogs, contained, kept for 5 months and butchered. sheep is more of an investment, as you are seeing. its a long game. goats are arguably the same... a bit more work though meat chickens like hogs, all inputs are bought off the farm, but its a fast return and if you can market the sale, you sell a steers worth of weight in 8-9 weeks. and make usually around 20-30% profit if you do it well.
That Dr. Suess title had me rolling! I'm using that joke in the future! My goal is to basically feed my family almost entirely from our own animals and crops. And then make enough money to pay myself back for the monetary investments, like feeds, fences, etc. We just started with pigs and I can see how that would be a quicker turnaround than sheep.
Hi PJ I would recommend you to stay with sheep you have already gathered 3 years of experience stay with what you know ..take the time to reflect what could you've done to yield better result ..if you decide to go commercial just keep in mind you going to need more hoofs on the ground to be profitable ,draw two imagery horizontal parallel lines above the top line draw a colored zone that is your end goal, just above the second line is you profit zone ,the area between the first and second line is you break even or sustainable zone and below the first line is a loss with that in mind you can start to make calculations the cost against how many hoofs required to make a profit and ultimately reaching your target goal. If you decide to just fatten weather lambs it's crucial to buy the correct age, breed and good genetics otherwise it will be a loss that's my 2 cents God speed on whatever you decide to do
We have had beef masters cows, sheep , pigs, goats. Cows are harder to manage Because of their size. That being said we never lost cows to stray dogs or Coyotes. Pigs pigs fight back and are heat sensitive . I love our sheep perfect size they aren't as unruly when in heat. Friendly but defenseless.
Curious what you have for pigs, since ours are totally non-aggressive except when a mom is guarding a nest full of babies. As for heat, pigs should be in a forest, not an open field. In the forest, they don't get the heat from those scorching hot days and we regularly get over 40°C at our place.
@@AgnesMariaL We just finished raising two red wattles. They were great animals (except when we had to load them). And yes, they did really well in the forest.
Ok, I won't say for sheep as you know already your options, If you go for meat goats: - stay away from Boer, it has the same vulnerabilities as Dorper - it works well only in dry climate. - so here you have only two options: Spanish goat which is perfectly adapted to SUA territory (should be cheaper), and Kiko goat which is also parasite resistant (more expensive, not an American breed). There are more, but you wanted a good production of meat. But with goats, there is a problem - the smell of the buck which must be castrated - that is an extra pain in the rear... You mainly have to go for the doe, which has less meat. The goat meat might be better... Anyway, when you arrived at your new property, you had the perfect setup for raising goats. In a few years you would have had the pasture for the sheep So you kinda wasted the bushes... If you go for meat animals bigger than goats: - the only one I recommend against cows is ZEBU. Parasite resistant and drought resistant. Smaller than a cow but depends on breed. Pleeeeenty of meat :D - you'll have to invite some families to share or sell the extra meet - Well, if you start with ZEBU, you will not be able to stop! But you need pasture or is costly.
I'm looking at buying a ram and 3 or 4 ewes that are fully documented. This farm wants 800 for a ram and 1500 for a ewe born last year. Any recommendation on other farms?
@@homesteadingwithPJ From what I've heard though, their milk is the tastiest and their feed costs are the lowest of the three. Hope you can find out in the next couple months.
Cows are much easier to contain - you just need a single strand of electric tape which you can easily move around to rest your ground as needed. Sheep and goats need really good fencing. Sheep can be trained to multi strands of electric fencing (which is harder to move around) but it's a process and you have to be prepared to quickly remove them from the flock if they aren't prepared to conform to this type of fencing. Thick fleece insulates them from getting a shock so they must be shorn before you start training them. Cows are calmer and easier to train too, whereas sheep and goats are more flighty.
If you can afford to get and keep a cow and you have the pasture, then give 'er. Otherwise, get sheep! Goats are absolute heathens IMO, I truly don't understand their appeal at all: they stink, they taste disgusting (my dogs won't even eat goat!), they are destructive and they are IMPOSSIBLE to contain!
For pasture, definitely sheep and/or cows! As for goats, I highly do NOT recommend them! I had the misfortune of having to deal with someone's goats all last summer... I finally had my fence good enough to contain my sheep, but do you think it worked for the damn goats? No. Then, because they kept escaping and destroying our gardens across the road, I had to lock them in the barn that I built specifically for my sheep! Do you think THAT contained them? Again, NO!!! The little heathens were playing leapfrog off each other to get over the 5' walls, and after closing up those spaces they would then just chew through boards, so the entire summer was spent continuously patching MY building that was meant for MY sheep, rather than building more fences and more infrastructure for MY farm! I see a wooded area to your right and in the background: do you own any of that? If so, why not get pigs? They are such easy keepers, they only need two or three hot wires at 6-8" spacing, and if you can find a restaurant or grocery store who'll let you take their food scraps, then they're incredibly cheap to raise. We love our pigs, never had a health issue in all the years we've raised them, and they taste worlds better than the grocery store crap - even the boars! (Boar taint is apparently a myth - at least in our experience.) One thing, though, is if you pasture like we do with no man-made structures, loading them onto a trailer can be an issue; so, if you plan to haul them off live to be processed off-property, get a small cube trailer and use that as their shelter. Then, when the day comes, just go out there before they get up in the morning and just close the door ;)
What an experience with goats! We just finished 2 red wattle pigs in the forest and had a great experience. Loading them was a pain in the butt. I need to rethink my loading procedure if I ever want to do pigs again. But yeah, we've enjoyed pigs. They were sent to the butcher last week. Still waiting on the meat...
@@homesteadingwithPJ We process ourselves. One of the men turns out the lights with whatever we have that's bigger than a .22, then my friend/sister and I butcher.
In autumn(seasonal low price) buy 8-10 *matched* cull cows. Yep CULLS. Feed them cheap mid grade hay thru winter that you purchase in early summer (seasonal low price). Sell them as a group in April (seasonal high price). Are you catching on to the low/high price dichotomy going on here??? The big order buyers at the sale barn want MATCHED groups. Preferably 8-20 at a time to meet feedlot orders. This ain't hoity toity "foodie" food, this is the Walmart 3 lb "log" of 80/20 meat that's going to get turned into hamburgers on Memorial Day. Not knocking you but this is the level of your experience and scale. I think you need to go cheap and bomb proof. No more $1000 freezer camp livestock, ok? Stay the hell away from exotics or minor breeds (Dexter's....pfft!). That's just LARPing. If you want more info and reasons let me know
All good info. But I'm sure I don't have the pasture size to turn a profit at that scale. But I like the ideas shared here. I also am not a fan of exotics if I can avoid it and Dexters as LARPig, haha! That's funny! But I'm not here to sell to Wal-Mart either. I want food for my family and maybe a couple of other families. I have a real job that makes real money, homesteading is for health and pleasure.
I’m not a veteran by any means but we decided to start with goats as we have a lot of old pasture that has gone to woody brush and thorns. Over this last year our 14 goats have reclaimed around 3 acres with out really trying. Our main cash flow is from our flower farm but this year I will be focusing on aggressive clearing with the goats with plans to have another 20 acres ready to begin building a sheep herd. I also have a few pigs that I send after the goats to disturb the ground before any seeding. The pigs are more of a hobby/interest, but they till the ground well in small controlled paddocks. Great video. First one I’ve seen of you but I’m definitely going to watch more 🤙
Thanks for your videos. I’ve really enjoy them and have learned so much from your journey.
Thanks so much!
Please add the schedule when to do everyhing with sheep. It would certainly help people deciding on whether or not it is too much to take on sheep.
That's a great idea for a video. I'll for sure make one in the next few months.
@@homesteadingwithPJ would love one of these too, your channel is so great man.
Love your videos! Especially this one because I have been feeling the strong pull to start up with some sheep. Sounds like some great, honest advice from some hard lessons. Thank you
Thanks so much! I've certainly loved sheep.
Would love to see you on the meat goat journey!
Thank you for being so candid as to share the hard lessons learned!
My 7 year old daughter really wants us to do goats this year. I want to do cows, so we'll see who wins!
Loved the comment about “ Freezer Camp “
Thank you so much for sharing. This helps me a lot as far as how I want to approach my new adventure of raising goats on what is currently blackberry and pine heavy land.
Thanks for always keeping it real PJ! We love watching your videos because you’re fairly new at this too (we’re only 8 months in, butchered 3 wethers and turned our ram in with our 4 ewes - Dorper and black belly).
Why did you regret bringing your first flock with you when you moved? Was there a huge climate difference? Some interesting pointers. Sure appreciate it!!
Thanks so much Heidi!
I regret bringing them here because they were not accustomed to the wet (parasite heavy) weather. They were amazing sheep in a dry climate, but I brought them out here and we lost about half of the stock in the first year. It would have been sad to sell them and buy new stock, but it was even sadder watching half of them die.
Where are you and how do you like your dorper/ black belly breed? We're considering those and we live in the semi arid desert of Idaho.
Hi PJ, we're just getting started with a mixed flerd of goats and sheep. So far so good. Might be a good option to help you clean up the wooded areas and get more pasture established.
Thanks
There was a article about a farmer that had 30 cows on 20 acres. It was the frist time every reading about stress grazing. that was 40 or 30 years ago. The thing about cows is it takes space to grow enough grass some years hay is easy to find others year's it not.
This was excellent advice! I’m new here and happy that I found you!
You made my day, happy to hear it!
I'm starting out with the very first mistake lmao I get 5 pregnant st croix ewes and a white dorper ram today! I already have two jacob ewe lawn ornaments and I like them so I have a little bit of an idea of what I'm doing but that's ok. Go big or go home lmao
On the bright side, I'm well set up to not make the rest of the mistakes at least!
That's a good cross! You're gonna have a great flock!
@@homesteadingwithPJ that's what I've heard! I wanted royal whites (which have those two breeds as foundations) but they're almost impossible to get in Canada so this was the next best thing
PJ can you test drive a couple of meat goats and dexter steers for the rest of us? My wife and I are interested in raising small-midsize beef and Dexter's seem like a good yield for their size and also good with kids.
If I could find Dexters near me, I would jump on that.
Dexter cattle. There are both dairy and meat varieties. They are the dachshund of cattle. Because they are smaller they are easier to handle, don’t need as much room and get along well with other animals.
I've heard really good things about Dexter cows. I didn't know there was a dairy variety. Very interesting. If I find someone near me with Dexter, they'll be the first on my list.
@@homesteadingwithPJ there is no dairy or meat Dexter. It's one duel purpose breed
@@homesteadingwithPJI agree. Dexter would be a perfect cow to get your feet wet. Easy to manage docile & they at least give you 500lbs hanging weight.
@@south97north Great advice. Now to find someone with Dexter near me...
@@homesteadingwithPJ where you located?
i think of a Dr. Suess title for the farmer "oh the money you spent"
all great insights.
diversification has been something ive learned.
whats your end game? to put money in the bank, food in the freezer? a bit of both?
we've done on the small scale: sheep, pigs, meat chickens and pet goats.
pigs had been the quickest return but alot of work. these are full sized hogs, contained, kept for 5 months and butchered.
sheep is more of an investment, as you are seeing. its a long game. goats are arguably the same... a bit more work though
meat chickens like hogs, all inputs are bought off the farm, but its a fast return and if you can market the sale, you sell a steers worth of weight in 8-9 weeks. and make usually around 20-30% profit if you do it well.
That Dr. Suess title had me rolling! I'm using that joke in the future!
My goal is to basically feed my family almost entirely from our own animals and crops. And then make enough money to pay myself back for the monetary investments, like feeds, fences, etc.
We just started with pigs and I can see how that would be a quicker turnaround than sheep.
Hi PJ I would recommend you to stay with sheep you have already gathered 3 years of experience stay with what you know ..take the time to reflect what could you've done to yield better result ..if you decide to go commercial just keep in mind you going to need more hoofs on the ground to be profitable ,draw two imagery horizontal parallel lines above the top line draw a colored zone that is your end goal, just above the second line is you profit zone ,the area between the first and second line is you break even or sustainable zone and below the first line is a loss with that in mind you can start to make calculations the cost against how many hoofs required to make a profit and ultimately reaching your target goal. If you decide to just fatten weather lambs it's crucial to buy the correct age, breed and good genetics otherwise it will be a loss that's my 2 cents God speed on whatever you decide to do
Thanks Juan! I know you know your stuff. Good to hear from you!
We have had beef masters cows, sheep , pigs, goats. Cows are harder to manage Because of their size. That being said we never lost cows to stray dogs or Coyotes. Pigs pigs fight back and are heat sensitive . I love our sheep perfect size they aren't as unruly when in heat. Friendly but defenseless.
These are all very true. Good points.
Curious what you have for pigs, since ours are totally non-aggressive except when a mom is guarding a nest full of babies. As for heat, pigs should be in a forest, not an open field. In the forest, they don't get the heat from those scorching hot days and we regularly get over 40°C at our place.
@@AgnesMariaL We just finished raising two red wattles. They were great animals (except when we had to load them).
And yes, they did really well in the forest.
Ok, I won't say for sheep as you know already your options,
If you go for meat goats:
- stay away from Boer, it has the same vulnerabilities as Dorper - it works well only in dry climate.
- so here you have only two options: Spanish goat which is perfectly adapted to SUA territory (should be cheaper), and Kiko goat which is also parasite resistant (more expensive, not an American breed). There are more, but you wanted a good production of meat.
But with goats, there is a problem - the smell of the buck which must be castrated - that is an extra pain in the rear... You mainly have to go for the doe, which has less meat. The goat meat might be better... Anyway, when you arrived at your new property, you had the perfect setup for raising goats. In a few years you would have had the pasture for the sheep So you kinda wasted the bushes...
If you go for meat animals bigger than goats:
- the only one I recommend against cows is ZEBU. Parasite resistant and drought resistant. Smaller than a cow but depends on breed. Pleeeeenty of meat :D - you'll have to invite some families to share or sell the extra meet - Well, if you start with ZEBU, you will not be able to stop! But you need pasture or is costly.
Great points. Good to know about Boer goats being similar to Dorper. Makes perfect sense why that would be the case.
What brothers did you buy sheep from? I’m in southern Idaho looking for some good stock.
Mountain Valley Dorper.
I'm looking at buying a ram and 3 or 4 ewes that are fully documented. This farm wants 800 for a ram and 1500 for a ewe born last year. Any recommendation on other farms?
Yeah, that's steep. I don't know where you're at, and even if I did I don't know many breeders. Try the Dorper website?
I've been wondering the same: which is the best dairy animal (for a beginner, specifically)? Sheep, goats, or mini cattle?
Probably either goats or small cow. I wouldn't imagine sheep are better than either of cows or goats.
@@homesteadingwithPJ From what I've heard though, their milk is the tastiest and their feed costs are the lowest of the three. Hope you can find out in the next couple months.
@@LeoTheYuty I have heard all that as well. All my friends who make cheese are begging me to get into the dairy sheep business.
Cows are much easier to contain - you just need a single strand of electric tape which you can easily move around to rest your ground as needed. Sheep and goats need really good fencing. Sheep can be trained to multi strands of electric fencing (which is harder to move around) but it's a process and you have to be prepared to quickly remove them from the flock if they aren't prepared to conform to this type of fencing. Thick fleece insulates them from getting a shock so they must be shorn before you start training them. Cows are calmer and easier to train too, whereas sheep and goats are more flighty.
If you can afford to get and keep a cow and you have the pasture, then give 'er. Otherwise, get sheep! Goats are absolute heathens IMO, I truly don't understand their appeal at all: they stink, they taste disgusting (my dogs won't even eat goat!), they are destructive and they are IMPOSSIBLE to contain!
For pasture, definitely sheep and/or cows! As for goats, I highly do NOT recommend them! I had the misfortune of having to deal with someone's goats all last summer... I finally had my fence good enough to contain my sheep, but do you think it worked for the damn goats? No. Then, because they kept escaping and destroying our gardens across the road, I had to lock them in the barn that I built specifically for my sheep! Do you think THAT contained them? Again, NO!!! The little heathens were playing leapfrog off each other to get over the 5' walls, and after closing up those spaces they would then just chew through boards, so the entire summer was spent continuously patching MY building that was meant for MY sheep, rather than building more fences and more infrastructure for MY farm!
I see a wooded area to your right and in the background: do you own any of that? If so, why not get pigs? They are such easy keepers, they only need two or three hot wires at 6-8" spacing, and if you can find a restaurant or grocery store who'll let you take their food scraps, then they're incredibly cheap to raise. We love our pigs, never had a health issue in all the years we've raised them, and they taste worlds better than the grocery store crap - even the boars! (Boar taint is apparently a myth - at least in our experience.) One thing, though, is if you pasture like we do with no man-made structures, loading them onto a trailer can be an issue; so, if you plan to haul them off live to be processed off-property, get a small cube trailer and use that as their shelter. Then, when the day comes, just go out there before they get up in the morning and just close the door ;)
What an experience with goats!
We just finished 2 red wattle pigs in the forest and had a great experience. Loading them was a pain in the butt. I need to rethink my loading procedure if I ever want to do pigs again. But yeah, we've enjoyed pigs. They were sent to the butcher last week. Still waiting on the meat...
@@homesteadingwithPJ We process ourselves. One of the men turns out the lights with whatever we have that's bigger than a .22, then my friend/sister and I butcher.
In autumn(seasonal low price) buy 8-10 *matched* cull cows. Yep CULLS. Feed them cheap mid grade hay thru winter that you purchase in early summer (seasonal low price).
Sell them as a group in April (seasonal high price). Are you catching on to the low/high price dichotomy going on here???
The big order buyers at the sale barn want MATCHED groups. Preferably 8-20 at a time to meet feedlot orders.
This ain't hoity toity "foodie" food, this is the Walmart 3 lb "log" of 80/20 meat that's going to get turned into hamburgers on Memorial Day.
Not knocking you but this is the level of your experience and scale. I think you need to go cheap and bomb proof. No more $1000 freezer camp livestock, ok?
Stay the hell away from exotics or minor breeds (Dexter's....pfft!). That's just LARPing.
If you want more info and reasons let me know
All good info. But I'm sure I don't have the pasture size to turn a profit at that scale. But I like the ideas shared here.
I also am not a fan of exotics if I can avoid it and Dexters as LARPig, haha! That's funny! But I'm not here to sell to Wal-Mart either. I want food for my family and maybe a couple of other families. I have a real job that makes real money, homesteading is for health and pleasure.
You definitely need to get some goats
No no