Thanks for the video, it helped me figure out why the super-fast-flashing LEDs I was adding to my pinball machine just stayed on solid. Added the capacitor and now they work perfectly.👍
I'll admit that somewhere through the video it seemed like a lot of trouble to go to, wiring your lift-out bridge LEDs this way just to get flashing lights. But the practicality of doing it in a way that you could use the power supply already present on the bridge won out. I think a lot of us, by now, have all or most of the components somewhere in our stash, so it was never a matter of expense even though none of the electronics cost much when not purchased as a kit. It's the power of the picture: at the end when you just lifted the bridge out and set it back in place, with all the lights working exactly as desired and no need to connect or disconnect anything that made your whole point. I will most certainly watch this video a few more times so I can recreate this idea on my own layout. Thank you for that. You are an excellent problem-solver. Just an aside: when I solve my layout problems with this bridge idea I will probably use my Cricut Maker to cut some styrene trusswork to make the bridge look more like a bridge. It won't be exact or particularly detailed, to keep cost down, but making the lift-out bridge seem more like an actual part of the railroad is an interesting idea. If I do that I'll probably move the LEDS to the trusswork tops. As always, your stuff is really great. Thank you so much, for doing all the thoughtwork that leaves the rest of us more sure we can do such cool things too. You constantly expand our capacity to imagine what we can do ourselves, without breaking anything! For example I'll venture the thought that watching your many top quality videos has left a lot of us a bit less afraid of aiming our hot soldering irons at tiny stuff, and usefully putting together bit-sized electronics is now nowhere near as intimidating as it might once have been. We owe you so very much indeed! Your credentials as a valued instructor are superb.
You should make a video dedicated to your entire setup/model railroad. I think after the bridge, there is a hole in the wall and the track continues to another room? It looks cool.
Those leds definitely will get someone's attention, nice addition to your bridge. I'm glad you did this video. I purchased some red flashing leds like you have but when I put 12v power to it was solid, but 9v it flashed. I wasn't sure how to get it to work with dcc. Thanks to you, now I do. Chuck
Nice vid. Very informative, as usual. I add that you consider keying the liftout so that it can only be inserted one way. If someone lifts it out, turns around, and then goes to replace it, they'll be trying to insert it backwards.
Given that there are 4 PowerPoints that all have to be perfectly aligned for the correct fit, the bridge cannot be reversed by accident. You would need to build a special drilling template jig to even get close to a reversible fit.
Ronald, I checked on your decoder yesterday and it is now floating around somewhere in Canada, after having passed through Toronto. I can’t believe it has taken it this long to clear customs in the US and Canada!
Great video Larry and the lift out bridge is very definition of simplicity. The flashing lights look really cool and will certainly attract attention but after working many years in the medical field, specifically in the ER, I have learned never to underestimate the human's ability to do incredibly stupid things. Good Luck.
I really enjoy all of your videos, but this one (along with the others on the drop bridge) may be my favorites. I have been working with LED's recently and really appreciate the info on material needed for flashing LED's if used on DCC. I also like the design of the drop bridge you have presented (taking off without having to disconnect wires). That really gives me some good design ideals for the future (planing on making a wall-based layout ... need several bridges at various spots). Thanks again and really look forward to every video you publish.
Very interesting, Larry, not least in exemplifying the nature of the DCC waveform. I wondered if you'd tried it with just just the capacitor (i.e. without the rectifier): the LED illuminated on DCC current, so would a capacitor on its own be enough to overcome the on-off nature of the power? Interesting you mentioned using a fluorescent flicker simulator to "light" a model camp fire. When I was in the theatre, we used a fluorescent starter in series with a lamp to produce a random flicker for a "flame."
You did pretty good with your explanations, but one of these days, please consider using an oscilloscope to explain what is at the track with a DCC system and how a bridge will effectively make pulsating DC out of it and finally how a capacitor will smooth out the ripple to effectively give near pure DC as with a battery. As to the effect on the bridge, with the flashing LED lamps, Damn good idea, Kudos.
I had a question since you were touching on LED’s . I have a PSX-1 , I’m sure most folks will mount these like I did , under the control panel or bench work . My question is what would be the most effective way to connect a LED to the short circuit side of the device , so I could mount a visible LED above the bench work to identify which district has the short when you have several folks operating on the layout at the same time .
Thanks for the very informative video! Could you do a video on using LEDs with the DS64 and a local panel with a pushbutton to change turnouts locally?
I have such an installation on my layout, just didn’t do a video on it. Not sure now since the DS64 has been discontinued. Although I have enough DS64s on hand to do my next staging yard I may have to break and buy a DS74 just to see how they work.
What an interesting idea! Thanks for introducing us to this very novel application. By the way, your lift-out bridge itself appears to be the ultimate in simplicity. Thanks for another great video.
That depends in what you mean by ALL your LEDs. If you are just using them for building lights then yes, that is exactly what I do on my layout. LEDs like Woodland Scenics Just Plug LEDs have their own power supply. The are also other systems out there as well likely with their own power supplies. You can easily end up with multiple transformers plugged in to power all these different proprietary systems. Another consideration is that different color LEDs may need slightly different voltages to operate which can be achieved with resistors.
Details West a d maybe Detail Associates make beacon castings for locos with a colored plastic dome. I nave drilled the plastic dome out just enough to insert a surface mount LED (see my video on LEDs for lighting locos). Then power that using one of the decoder function wires and program it for a beacon flash.
Hi Larry. I have a MRC Prodigy Advance2. According to the Manual, the DCC signal output is 14.5 V amplitude. Will this approach work with the Prodigy Advance2? I believe you mentioned the bridge rectifier inputs are "AC". Want to make sure I don't mess up anything. Thanks Ron
Larry, can't believe missed this episode, the capacitor is what was missing in my attempt to do the same recently. THANKS. Now have a question for you. While I was searching for information, this video did come up, which is great, but I was searching for how to use this same idea in another way on my layout. Would like to use this concept on each Turnout Control Panel for the 10 operating blocks. On each turnout panel the blinking LEDs would be used to indicate a short circuit in that block rather than some of the other concepts. Have you an idea as to how this could be accomplished.
You could use a solid state relay circuit that turns the LED on when power to a block is disrupted. It could be powered off the DCC bus with a solid state bridge rectifier. That way the relay could be used to turn the LED on and off depending on whether it is powered or not. Set it up the relay os open when powered a d off when not. Take a look this circuit in Fig. 1 as an example. Because the LED draws so little current you could even use a transistor as a switch to do the job. There must be some circuits available on the internet that do this, but otherwise it will take some experimentation to get it set up.
Larry excellent, now a question about the auto reverse loop you are working on , you need 12 volt dc , using DCC power would we need a rectifier for that application, this video give me some ideas for future layout I am working on
I doubt it since the IC is built into the chip. There are of course circuits that do alter the flash rate but they would be a separate build. You also may be able to find specialized ones with different flash/flicker rates-do a Google search or check eBay.
Hi Larry, Really enjoy your informative videos. The 'Flashing LED', at least the ones I have purchased, have another surprise! Both the 3mm and 5mm LEDs if power is reversed they will 'Burn Out'. Had to use a 'Diode Rectifier' on the negative side to prevent positive feedback when the power was reversed while being used with a Tortoise. Do the ones you have 'burn ou't if the power is reversed? The ones I have no one was able to determine why it happened, my thoughts were that the circuit in the LED to make it 'FLASH' could not handle reversed voltage. Your thoughts.
Unfortunately there is no data sheet with these on All Electronics so I know very little about them. It sounds like the IC in yours may have been blown by the reverse polarity. LEDs generally will not blow if subjected to reverse polarity but these may be different. Make sure to observe proper polarity must be the watchword. From what I have read online each company designs their own circuits in these and they can be pretty mysterious about them.
@@TheDCCGuy CORRECT, "....... and they can be pretty mysterious about them." Why they 'DON'T TELL YOU IN THEIR DESCRIPTION IS RIDICULOUS'. Have a good weekend.
All LEDs will burnout if the reverse voltage is too high. Flashing LEDs have very low tolerance for reverse voltage, typically half a volt or so. I believe Larry is correct when he says that it is the IC embedded in the LED that gets destroyed.
I have not seen their flex yet but if it is as good as the turnouts it should be fine. I mainly have been using MicroEngineering track since I have a dealer friend who sells it to me at a deep discount.
thank you for this video, but i have just a few small questions. first what determines the size of resistor to use and how would i choose for myself. next you used recifiers and and a capacitor. how did you know what size of those to use.
The resistor is determined based on Ohms law and I have covered this i my videos on using LEDs in the past-there are online calculators for this. As for the capacitor it is more complicated so I just used what Larry Maier suggested-220 uF, 25 volts. There is a way to calculate it but you need to know the specs which I did not have. Probably easiest to just have a few of various sizes in the 220uF range and see what works best, they are cheap. But now I know that one 220 uF cap will do at least 5 in parallel and I doubt I will ever use more than that in one place.
Larry: you have a couple of Lifelike E's behind you. The axle 'bearings' fall out. Cannot locate replacements. Any ideas??? Thanks. (If in doubt, bore the fur off Larry) Pete
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry; have had little luck researching this; no parts listed. Most attention on these locos concentrates on axle system splitting, yet no one mentions this problem which seems as common. Shall try modifiying the model. Also, if time allows??????????????? hope to work on another solution to the axle muff problems. I wonder about the complexity of these models. Thanks for your channel. Peter T
Thanks for the video, it helped me figure out why the super-fast-flashing LEDs I was adding to my pinball machine just stayed on solid. Added the capacitor and now they work perfectly.👍
I'll admit that somewhere through the video it seemed like a lot of trouble to go to, wiring your lift-out bridge LEDs this way just to get flashing lights. But the practicality of doing it in a way that you could use the power supply already present on the bridge won out. I think a lot of us, by now, have all or most of the components somewhere in our stash, so it was never a matter of expense even though none of the electronics cost much when not purchased as a kit.
It's the power of the picture: at the end when you just lifted the bridge out and set it back in place, with all the lights working exactly as desired and no need to connect or disconnect anything that made your whole point. I will most certainly watch this video a few more times so I can recreate this idea on my own layout. Thank you for that. You are an excellent problem-solver.
Just an aside: when I solve my layout problems with this bridge idea I will probably use my Cricut Maker to cut some styrene trusswork to make the bridge look more like a bridge. It won't be exact or particularly detailed, to keep cost down, but making the lift-out bridge seem more like an actual part of the railroad is an interesting idea. If I do that I'll probably move the LEDS to the trusswork tops.
As always, your stuff is really great. Thank you so much, for doing all the thoughtwork that leaves the rest of us more sure we can do such cool things too. You constantly expand our capacity to imagine what we can do ourselves, without breaking anything! For example I'll venture the thought that watching your many top quality videos has left a lot of us a bit less afraid of aiming our hot soldering irons at tiny stuff, and usefully putting together bit-sized electronics is now nowhere near as intimidating as it might once have been. We owe you so very much indeed! Your credentials as a valued instructor are superb.
Thank you Larry fir all you do in our Hobby..
You should make a video dedicated to your entire setup/model railroad. I think after the bridge, there is a hole in the wall and the track continues to another room? It looks cool.
Those leds definitely will get someone's attention, nice addition to your bridge. I'm glad you did this video. I purchased some red flashing leds like you have but when I put 12v power to it was solid, but 9v it flashed. I wasn't sure how to get it to work with dcc. Thanks to you, now I do.
Chuck
Wow, the LEDs really add to the bridge. Great video and nice work!
Great video Larry! I can see in your smile, you're a lifetime member/buyer of those power point connectors! 🤠👍
Yes I am! They make electrical connections like these so easy and seamless.
The bridge turned out very nice, great solution. I'm gonna use something like this for my layout
Nice vid. Very informative, as usual.
I add that you consider keying the liftout so that it can only be inserted one way. If someone lifts it out, turns around, and then goes to replace it, they'll be trying to insert it backwards.
Given that there are 4 PowerPoints that all have to be perfectly aligned for the correct fit, the bridge cannot be reversed by accident. You would need to build a special drilling template jig to even get close to a reversible fit.
Well thats a fine job well done again Larry
Ronald, I checked on your decoder yesterday and it is now floating around somewhere in Canada, after having passed through Toronto. I can’t believe it has taken it this long to clear customs in the US and Canada!
@@TheDCCGuy Just received this morning Thanks
Excellent, glad to hear it arrived.
Great video Larry and the lift out bridge is very definition of simplicity. The flashing lights look really cool and will certainly attract attention but after working many years in the medical field, specifically in the ER, I have learned never to underestimate the human's ability to do incredibly stupid things. Good Luck.
You can buy different flashing time, eg fast or slow flash. The candle flicker LEDs are really nice too for a for fire effects..
Very cool solution, Larry. Thanks for this video!
THAT is awesome! Great idea. The whole bridge is a great idea!
A really great video Larry 👏👏👏
Thanks for this video!
But if there was an LED with an IC containing the right capacitor, you'd only need the bridge rectifier?
Yes, you are right
Great stuff. Smart ideas for any railroad.
I really enjoy all of your videos, but this one (along with the others on the drop bridge) may be my favorites. I have been working with LED's recently and really appreciate the info on material needed for flashing LED's if used on DCC. I also like the design of the drop bridge you have presented (taking off without having to disconnect wires). That really gives me some good design ideals for the future (planing on making a wall-based layout ... need several bridges at various spots). Thanks again and really look forward to every video you publish.
Very interesting, Larry, not least in exemplifying the nature of the DCC waveform.
I wondered if you'd tried it with just just the capacitor (i.e. without the rectifier): the LED illuminated on DCC current, so would a capacitor on its own be enough to overcome the on-off nature of the power?
Interesting you mentioned using a fluorescent flicker simulator to "light" a model camp fire. When I was in the theatre, we used a fluorescent starter in series with a lamp to produce a random flicker for a "flame."
Electrolytic capacitors are polarized devices and require rectified DC power.
Can you put these lights on a timer so they blink at different times, not all at once?
Worth a try but I din ‘t know how they would interact.
Bravo good work!Interesting setup too. 🎉
You did pretty good with your explanations, but one of these days, please consider using an oscilloscope to explain what is at the track with a DCC system and how a bridge will effectively make pulsating DC out of it and finally how a capacitor will smooth out the ripple to effectively give near pure DC as with a battery. As to the effect on the bridge, with the flashing LED lamps, Damn good idea, Kudos.
Great video. Do you have to have all those gadgets for every light? Can you have flashing or blinking lights on a different power source?
I don’t see why not.
@@TheDCCGuy thank you
I had a question since you were touching on LED’s . I have a PSX-1 , I’m sure most folks will mount these like I did , under the control panel or bench work . My question is what would be the most effective way to connect a LED to the short circuit side of the device , so I could mount a visible LED above the bench work to identify which district has the short when you have several folks operating on the layout at the same time .
Jumper 5 provides contacts for adding a remote LED to monitor the status of the device. Check your manual.
@@TheDCCGuy thank you for the confirmation . I had seen that , but wasn’t wanting to risk smoke confident I was right if you will . Thanks again
Thanks for the very informative video! Could you do a video on using LEDs with the DS64 and a local panel with a pushbutton to change turnouts locally?
I have such an installation on my layout, just didn’t do a video on it. Not sure now since the DS64 has been discontinued. Although I have enough DS64s on hand to do my next staging yard I may have to break and buy a DS74 just to see how they work.
What an interesting idea! Thanks for introducing us to this very novel application. By the way, your lift-out bridge itself appears to be the ultimate in simplicity. Thanks for another great video.
Can I use a separate power source for all my LED lights?
That depends in what you mean by ALL your LEDs. If you are just using them for building lights then yes, that is exactly what I do on my layout. LEDs like Woodland Scenics Just Plug LEDs have their own power supply. The are also other systems out there as well likely with their own power supplies. You can easily end up with multiple transformers plugged in to power all these different proprietary systems. Another consideration is that different color LEDs may need slightly different voltages to operate which can be achieved with resistors.
Where did you get the lights and what is the part number? I have a DC setup.
Its all in the description.
Thanks for the great video, On a HO Loco with a Digitrax sound decoder ,how would I hook up a flashing roof light?
Details West a d maybe Detail Associates make beacon castings for locos with a colored plastic dome. I nave drilled the plastic dome out just enough to insert a surface mount LED (see my video on LEDs for lighting locos). Then power that using one of the decoder function wires and program it for a beacon flash.
Hi Larry. I have a MRC Prodigy Advance2. According to the Manual, the DCC signal output is 14.5 V amplitude. Will this approach work with the Prodigy Advance2? I believe you mentioned the bridge rectifier inputs are "AC". Want to make sure I don't mess up anything. Thanks Ron
You might want to up the resistor to about 1 K to compensate as my track voltage is set at about 13.5 V.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank you!
hello larry its is randy and i like u video is cool model railorading thanks larry friends randy
Larry, can't believe missed this episode, the capacitor is what was missing in my attempt to do the same recently. THANKS. Now have a question for you. While I was searching for information, this video did come up, which is great, but I was searching for how to use this same idea in another way on my layout. Would like to use this concept on each Turnout Control Panel for the 10 operating blocks. On each turnout panel the blinking LEDs would be used to indicate a short circuit in that block rather than some of the other concepts. Have you an idea as to how this could be accomplished.
You could use a solid state relay circuit that turns the LED on when power to a block is disrupted. It could be powered off the DCC bus with a solid state bridge rectifier. That way the relay could be used to turn the LED on and off depending on whether it is powered or not. Set it up the relay os open when powered a d off when not. Take a look this circuit in Fig. 1 as an example. Because the LED draws so little current you could even use a transistor as a switch to do the job. There must be some circuits available on the internet that do this, but otherwise it will take some experimentation to get it set up.
Sorry, forgot to paste the web link:
web.archive.org/web/20150609001058/home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/SSRelays.html
Larry, Now that All ELecronics is no longer available, do you have a similar source for all these great parts they sold at reasonable prices?
Probably Jameco, eBay, and MPJA.com unless I find another All Electronics.
Thanks, a great loss to hobbyists
Gave me an idea I may use on the approach to the turntable
Larry excellent, now a question about the auto reverse loop you are working on , you need 12 volt dc , using DCC power would we need a rectifier for that application, this video give me some ideas for future layout I am working on
They say DC or DCC a d the inputs say “Polarity Free” so I assume the have a rectifier built into the circuit.
Larry, what a great video and explanation. Is there a way to regulate the rate of flash?
I doubt it since the IC is built into the chip. There are of course circuits that do alter the flash rate but they would be a separate build. You also may be able to find specialized ones with different flash/flicker rates-do a Google search or check eBay.
Hi Larry, Really enjoy your informative videos. The 'Flashing LED', at least the ones I have purchased, have another surprise! Both the 3mm and 5mm LEDs if power is reversed they will 'Burn Out'. Had to use a 'Diode Rectifier' on the negative side to prevent positive feedback when the power was reversed while being used with a Tortoise. Do the ones you have 'burn ou't if the power is reversed? The ones I have no one was able to determine why it happened, my thoughts were that the circuit in the LED to make it 'FLASH' could not handle reversed voltage. Your thoughts.
Unfortunately there is no data sheet with these on All Electronics so I know very little about them. It sounds like the IC in yours may have been blown by the reverse polarity. LEDs generally will not blow if subjected to reverse polarity but these may be different. Make sure to observe proper polarity must be the watchword. From what I have read online each company designs their own circuits in these and they can be pretty mysterious about them.
@@TheDCCGuy CORRECT, "....... and they can be pretty mysterious about them." Why they 'DON'T TELL YOU IN THEIR DESCRIPTION IS RIDICULOUS'. Have a good weekend.
All LEDs will burnout if the reverse voltage is too high. Flashing LEDs have very low tolerance for reverse voltage, typically half a volt or so. I believe Larry is correct when he says that it is the IC embedded in the LED that gets destroyed.
I'm starting my first HO layout and I like the video you did with the new Walthers turnouts what are your thoughts about the Walthers new Flex track
I have not seen their flex yet but if it is as good as the turnouts it should be fine. I mainly have been using MicroEngineering track since
I have a dealer friend who sells it to me at a deep discount.
As an aside you can also buy flickering LED's as opposed to flashing ones
I would like to know if one could put alternating lights on RR crossing Gates?
Sure, you’d have to use surface mount LEDs and cobble up your own flasher circuit and trigger it off whatever controls the gate.
Thanks Larry your vidios are great and informitive Pleaser keep them comming
thank you for this video, but i have just a few small questions. first what determines the size of resistor to use and how would i choose for myself. next you used recifiers and and a capacitor. how did you know what size of those to use.
The resistor is determined based on Ohms law and I have covered this i my videos on using LEDs in the past-there are online calculators for this. As for the capacitor it is more complicated so I just used what Larry Maier suggested-220 uF, 25 volts. There is a way to calculate it but you need to know the specs which I did not have. Probably easiest to just have a few of various sizes in the 220uF range and see what works best, they are cheap. But now I know that one 220 uF cap will do at least 5 in parallel and I doubt I will ever use more than that in one place.
Is the led 12 volt? Thanks Ron
The description on the All Electronics website says 3-5VDC. Unfortunately they do not have a full datasheet.
Larry: you have a couple of Lifelike E's behind you. The axle 'bearings' fall out. Cannot locate replacements. Any ideas???
Thanks. (If in doubt, bore the fur off Larry)
Pete
Fortunately I have a couple extra locos on hand for parts. I don’t know whether the Walthers ones still use the same setup but you might ask them.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry; have had little luck researching this; no parts listed. Most attention on these locos concentrates on axle system splitting, yet no one mentions this problem which seems as common. Shall try modifiying the model. Also, if time allows??????????????? hope to work on another solution to the axle muff problems. I wonder about the complexity of these models.
Thanks for your channel.
Peter T